Hello all!! As has been pointed out, the DeLorean is rear engined, not front.. and the 6 cylinder in the Toyota is a straight, not a V! Was aware of both these details but being a dork it unconsciously came out wrong!
Jack, two small things. The Alfa Romeo Montreal had a cross plane crank instead of the Tipo 33's flat plane crank. I think you miss read. Toyota 2000 is an inline six, not V6. As always, best greetings from Sweden.
Love the Montreal. They came with a mechanichal SPICA fuel injection system that could be troublesome and not many mechanics were (or are) familiar with it. That was one of the reasons prices stayed low for a long time. The reason it was a failure: the oil crisis in 1973. It cannot be stressed how important that event was for European manufacturers. It killed off sp many models from non-high-end brands. The Montreal came out at the wrong time for Europe and it never had a chance competing with the larger and much cheaper V8s ubiquitous in the States.
Spica injection on the 4cylinder US models was very reliable and low maintenance. They were very easy to set up. Adjusting the idle was simple. Adjusting the mixture for power or economy was extremely easy. The only electrical part was the closed throttle fuel cut off. By exploiting that cut off feature you can get surprisingly good economy in urban, suburban and mountain driving. As far as I can tell, the two reasons that it used to be popular to switch from Spica to carbs are that with Spica you were limited to the stock throttle diameters, while Webers have different available choke sizes and larger models. The other reason has to do with the romance of the traditional layout. Gandini designed cars seemed to really suffer from the old US requirement for 5mph bumpers. Those looked awful on the Maserati Khamsin, as well. They were bad for handling, too. Removing 100 pounds from each end of my Alfetta transformed it.
Alfa Romeo Montreal. 2.6 liter V8 natural aspirated with 200 HP in the early 70's is not much HP? Number 27 are you feeling well mate? It is a fast car still to this days, but for sure back in the days.
Yep for a top of the range car and with a V8 it is lacking power... Jag XJS 5.3 V12 had 300hp...also BMW E9 CSL was around 260 hp from a 6cylinder..etc...even Alfa 75 from 80s had better acceleration
@@alexluke84 It has a 2.6 liter V8 and weigthed 1270 kg. And in some countries depending it had up to 230 HP! 200 HP minimum from a 2.6 liter is very much! You show me other cars from that area with more HP per liter without a turbo...they are rare! It's a fast car for it's days and with the fuel injection way ahead of it's time! Even Shevy Camaro with a 5.7 liter did not produce more power in total. So i think you don't know what you are talking about! 0-60 miles in 7.6 sec in fast in the 1970's! Crazy how people are so misinformed... Alfa 75 was 15 years later produced!
The 2000GT story reminds me a lot of the Lexus LFA (which, of course, is the spiritual successor of the 2000GT). Was very expensive, built by companies that is not known for making such hi-po machine, Yamaha did the engine, and was unappreciated when new. Oh, and both now costs easily into a million quid to get, and I would sell my family just to get one.
Well! The Montreal’s 200hp was actually a lot at the time and yes, more than the formentioned Dino. :) Sure, the chassie let it down, especially to think of the Alfetta at the time.
Li alfa Montreal per motivi economici venne penalizzato il suo sviluppo e come disse il progettista della linea gandini venne fatto entrare il v8 in una struttura più piccola di quella che doveva essere il prototipo originale e questo penalizzo la linea finale della macchina e le prestazioni nonostante tutto rimane una bella macchina
The DMC12 was actually rear-engined, not front engined, one of the reasons why the handling was so terrible, together with the relatively high center of gravity.
And wasn't the fuel delivery system kind of weird? I think it was a two-carb model, with one carb feeding 4 cylinders and another smaller carb feeding two cylinders?
The Delorean is apparently an inox, gullwing version of the Alpine A310. I think they used basically the same PRV v6 in the same rear position, and "2+2" interior (Two, plus two infants). Alpine tried to make the 310 competitive in rallying, but it seems that the old A110 actually had more effective and controllable handling, despite its obsolete swing axles.
Who doesn't know the DMC12 was a rear engined car. Have they never seen back to the future? How can a guy be a automotive journalist without knowing the DeLorean wasn't a front engined car?
I really like this format as a supplement to the regular videos. In a way, this video is a kind of compressed and sensible format of the videos that your fellow countryman in the channel "Big Car" makes and this tells quite a lot because he is good. Keep up the good work :)
The Montreal is such a stunning looking car, with those Miura looks (the designer is of course the same person), I sincerely wish I had bought one when they were cheap as chips, sort of..hindsight is a wonderfully annoying thing!
In the 80s Montreals, 105s and Dinos were all so cheap. You could pick up a Dino then for £10k, nobody wanted them because 'they aren't a real Ferrari'. How times change! Always loved the Montreal, very reminiscent of the Miura to my eyes.
saw several slightly tatty Montys for sale in the 80s for less than 5k. I never took the plunge because they had a terrible reputation for bad reliability and impossible to get parts for. Wish I'd bought one now.
As a young fellow l aways wanted to own that Toyota GT, settled eventually for an E Type, love the profile of both. By the time I made my move, the Toyota was "unobtainium".
12:07...the Delorean was front-engined?1? It was a woeful vehicle for a lot of reasons but it did manage to shove that horrid Renault lump into the back.
As I recall from back then, ie early 70's, the price for the Alfa Montreal was the killer. 200bhp was not diminutive, contrary to what you imply. I do think the Montreal must be one of the most beautful cars.
Great video Jack…despite being an Alfa fan, the Montreal has never really done it for me for some reason…and don’t get me started on the Delorean. Just a minor correction that others seemed to have missed: the Toyota 2000GT had a DOHC straight six rather than a V6. Can’t wait to see how the Bismerc is progressing!
@@Number27 love your channel, your enthousiasm and how you deal with all kinds of car issues. One little thing... the engine of the Delorian is in the back.
You described the main issue of the Toyota 2000 - its too small for us Europeans. So I dont think "snobbery" was the issue, since car makers like Porsche or BMW werent that much of a deal either at that time. ;-) After WWII most companies had to find their philosophy and build up their reputation.
Aloha Jack , nice blog with some interesting facts & theories , 1 error , the Toyota GT is a straight 6 , not a V6 :) . Keep up the interesting content.
Always loved the Montreal despite its shortcomings. Nearly bought one a long time ago but the rust put me off and now the prices are too much of a stretch!
I have a story to tell about trying to buy a 2000GT in 1985. Back then it took a huge amount of effort to find that there were just *two* examples in the UK at the time. I managed to persuade one owner to consider selling and promptly drove 300 miles to meet him. But to my absolute horror - I could not get into the driving seat at all. I’m around 6’2 and reasonable normal shape (!) but I could not contort my legs to get under/past the steering wheel, and the pedals were seemingly designed for someone 5ft high. This meant I would not have been able to operate the pedals properly even if I could of found a way to sit in the driving seat with custom smaller wheel. It also became clear that even sitting sideways in the drivers seat that my head was pressed up hard against the roof lining requiring. It was like I was sitting in a children's scale model car and this is clear from watching Connery trying to sit in just the passenger seat of the convertible made for him and the film. I really wanted to own it, and drive it, and not wrap it in cotton wool and store in a collection as an investment, so with great reluctance I had to give up on the dream :-( Folks maybe interested to know that the asking price at the time was ‘a mere’ £20k, and they are now frequently in classic car auctions for $850,000 to $1,200,000. Ouch ! All I have to show for it now is lots of photos, some books and magazine reviews and a limited run book about the cars evolution, signed by the designer, and numerous letters back and forth with him. The owner of the Toyota had a very large collection of other rarities, mostly classic Maserati’s and Ferrari’s from the 50-60’s and this was before the late 80’s classic car boom. I have no idea what happened to them all, but if he had of kept the lot, the collection would be worth at the very least £10+Million based on the photos I took at the time.
I saw the Toyota at the Belfast Motor Show (must have been the early 70's) and had to be dragged away . . . We also had a couple of Montreals that would occasionally turn up in Lisburn (where I lived) - one at my school, oddly enough. I've loved both from first sight. I also used to see the De Lorean prototypes out on their test drives from time to time. I wonder what I did with the brochure . . .
Great video Jack! You hit the nail on the head with the 2000GT. If that had been designed by a German, or even British, manufacturer, the car would likely have been a success (maybe a bit bigger inside also...). Personally, I think it's one of the most beautifully designed cars, and would go out of my way to purchase one if the funds allowed it.
@@TIMMEH19991 If a car is too small, only short people will buy it! At one point I looked at a Fiat X-19, but because I was on the taller side at 5'10", i was at eye-level with top of the windscreen and the seat really needed to go another couple of inches, which was impossible as there was the engine firewall in the way! However, there'll always be those who purchase vehicles that are totally unsuitable for their stature or job, just because they want the image it represents!
OMG the DMC12, literally built at the end of my street. Early 80's Primary School, we saw the transporters moving them out. Also there was a Ford factory close by as well, building engines and other components (grandfather was a foreman there), so we didnt build cars, but NI had alot of engineers, aero, nautical, agricultural, and auto...so yeah there was that.
Thanks Jack, some great info in here that I hadn't realised before. I know it's probably "mis-speaking" but that's a straight six in the Toyota and the DeLorean was rear engined. Still, you do a far better job of this kind of thing than I could. Keep on going - great work. And I really want to see the BisMerc moving onwards!
I sat in the Alpha Romeo Montreal during Expo 67. I thought that it was absolutely beautiful. What most impressed my tweenage mind was that the speedometer topped out at 200 (possibly 300). Of course I had never heard of the metric system at that point.
Because not enough people have already chewed you out for the DeLorean engine placement booboo...I believe You misspoke about the year DeLorean got started. You said 1966, but the company was formed in 1975 and the prototype came along in 1976. 1966, I think, was about the high point at Pontiac, but then they kicked him to the curb in 1972 or 1973, IIRC.
Looking at the content list while I watch all would be in my dream garage. Possibly with the exception of the DMC12. That’s just a bad car but helped by a certain film series to keep it in the public eye. Edit: 12:10 front engined? Slip of the tongue there.
As a commercial proposition the Veyron reportedly cost VW millions per car and back in the day the DB5 Aston Martin was a huge loss maker. Like the story of the chap that went into a dealer and said ‘I’m a friend of David Brown and he said I could buy a car at cost price, certainly sir that’s £400 more than the ticket price.. 😆😆
Thanks Jack. Love the history of these cars. I think if I had room in the garage I'd love the Toyota. Not because of the highest price. But because you just don't see them anywhere, and they really got that side profile spot on 👌
Hello, Citroen bankruptcy was due to the investment on rotary engine development and even more the two factories built which did sold any engine. Then Citroen built another factory to produce the CX launched in 1974. The SM did not play much in the financial issue Citroen faced at the time. What did not help the SM is the strange new US regulation related to the need for constant bumbers hight which forced Citroen to resign from selling it in the biggest market. And the reliability which today is easily fixed.
12:08 The DeLorean is rear engined. I'm over the DeLorean - not counting the one in the movie of course - but the rest of these cars look really good to me. There you go.. You can have a troubled start to life, and still end up being worth something :)
Thanks Jack. I really enjoyed this video. I recently watched Jay Leno’s garage where he takes out a xj220. Jay loves the car, but the owner of the car he drives indicates the decision to make it 2wd and V6 was because the tyre technology was not up to the heavier weight and forces a V12 would produce. Who knows what the truth is? I loved them as a teenager and still do now.
Despite being in the US, My Dad crashed a new SM on a test drive (mom's last Cit was a 71' DS21 Pallas), we have a local Montreal in perfect condition and we have an S2000 in the lobby at work :)
Out of just under 3000 produced, it is estimated 800- 1500 Bricklins remain. People are starting to look at them as prices climb for other classics. All the bugs were worked out after the factory closed. Just about all parts including body panels are available. Also, the car didn't come with a spare tire as Malcolm felt tires were very reliable. New cars today don't come with one. And this was back in 74-75.
Fun summary. The other problem with the Montreal was its Spica (?) fuel injection, which was horridly unreliable. The instrument cluster also takes some getting used to! On the Jaguar, working backward the value you quote for an XJ220 today is pretty much the same as for that heavily discounted final car in the '90s. Prices were depressed by those who had placed deposits for a V12, 4WD car and/or now were caught in the financial crash suing the Company for their money back, while the Company was busy suing customers reneging on their purchases. I don't think Guigiaro designed 'countless' Ferraris, I had to check but I make it three: 2 early 250 Bertone Speciali and one 2005 concept. The poor DeLorean wasn't just impeded by its asthmatic, rough, 90 degree V6 Renault engine. It also had in effect 2 bodies, a fibreglass underbody with the stainless steel on top. This wasn't the initial intention but on its own added several hundred pounds of unwelcome porkiness. The Toyota, gorgeous, and apparently great to drive, if you can get in. As you say, there's a reason Connery insisted on a convertible!
On the 4cylinder models Spica was very reliable, trouble free and easily tunable, though limited by the diameter of the throttles. I have no experience with the early version used on the "1750", but the 2 liter version worked fine.Throttle response, performance, economy and sound are all great with Spica.
Great video Jack although the Toyota 2000 GT predated the successful Datsun Z line which launched in 1969 in the USA and 1970 here although the 1600 & 2000 Roadsters were sold prior to the 240Z and I think some may have been badged Fairlady Z for the home market. Those didn’t sell in huge numbers I think and didn’t come to the UK as far as I’m aware
So...I've been putting my flux capacitor at the wrong end of my car. No wonder I can't go back to the future! I remember the Jaguar V-12 in IMSA XJR-5 racing at both Sears Point Raceway and Laguna Seca. The sound was AMAZING! Sounded like ripping of the space time continuum! That power unit would have been amazing in a street car with four driven wheels. I think the Toyota was the best looking car of the bunch. Beautiful.
Oh Lord, the DeLorean! What a horrid, horrid car. Stainless steel body that collected fingerprints as quickly as your fridge, and abysmal QC with irregular panel gaps that would make a Tesla look like a Porsche. They sat unloved on dealer lots forever. Another great video Jack. I really enjoy your style. I feel like I am sitting, having a beer with you. Well done!
I visited the Delorean factory at Dunmurry in Belfast in 1981. Was offered a job at 10K a year! I was worried about the longer term and didn't bother taking them up on it.... I agree with you that it was a bit anemic, but, no worse than a Capri of the time. Have seen an Alfa Romeo Montreal & Maserati SM and wondered what I can do to have either of them....Nice video and enjoy your Italian when you get an Italian marque! I don't know if anybody has reviewed the Lancia Gamma & Fiat 130 coupés as classics on You Tube, of course I might be wrong!
I was one of the few thousand crazy people who fell in love and bought an 82 Lancia Gamma 2500 iE Coupé back in 85. And I was probably the only owner who was silly enough to drive it as a daily car (I tried not to but I failed). It was my love, and when I finally had to say goodbye in 2001 (at over 260k km, probably world record with that car), my heart broke. The coupé was a Pininfarina masterpiece of art, a timeless classic, a sculpture. The engine was pure joy (when well maintained and not broke) - not the quickest car but at that time respectable for a comfortable 4-seater coupé with its 140 hp, 195 km/h top speed, and 9.5 seconds 0 to 100km/h. Unfortunately, the engine had various issues (mainly with blown head gaskets), the maintenance was a nightmare and extremely expensive, the body was prone to rust corrosion, and finding spare parts got more and more difficult. I spent more on that car than on all other cars I had combined but the joy I had driving it on the road was worth every cent I spent. That being said, the Gamma sedan was ugly as hell. The 130 Coupé was pure beauty, too, so was the 80s Maserati Quattroporte. Loved the Montreal, too, and almost bought it, but the Gamma Coupé won.
I know you've corrected the Delorean engine point but as a Delorean owner can I also point out that JZD was found not guilty of drug smuggling (it was blatant entrapment by the FBI)? JZD was no angel but he wasn't a drug smuggler. Also, the reason the Catholic and Protestant workers had different entrances was because they lived in different communities at each end of the factory. Inside the factory they worked happily side by side.
Whenever a failed project is described as "ahead of its time", it means one of two things; it addressed a problem that didn't yet exist, or it created problems that hadn't yet been solved. Either way, a failure. (The phrase crops up a lot in both aviation and military technical history.)
Thanks Jack this was excellent. As noted by another poster, a great addition to the channel in the feel of Big Car. I do note however the first still picture of the SM is a rotary of sorts, an NSU Ro80 or very early Mazda. Minor nit picking which did not detract at all from a great mini-doc.
The Jag had a 6R4 engine but wasn't the racer using that unit as well but yes it should have had the V12. Love the TWR modified cars but I love the TWR's own take on a super car the XJR15 which I think was styled by Peter Stevens. Also love the SM really looking forward to Up and Downs restoration. The Montreal was really interesting, I remember seeing one for sale locally in the mid 90's for £8k but they also had a mint Gamma coupe for about £2k. The Montreal always looked to narrow and spikey but brilliant looks. Can't warm to the Delorean I always thought the Espirit looked better. The Toyota 2000GT was stunning car, love to actually see one in the flesh.
My claim to fame is getting stuck in an XJ220 at Millbrook test facility in 1980s - it was an amazing car but difficult for a 6ft chap to get in and out of! Sadly I didn't get to drive it but I know why not - a young sale engineer is not trustworthy! 🤣
Cool, I was at the NEC motor show when they unveiled the XJ220, I preferred the F40. Still got a load of pics somewhere... and is that a Kyosho Optima mid on the right??
Great item did you do much research ? Delorean did so much good for N Ireland.....many unpaid employees carried on working when they went bust....so loyal !
I had always assumed that Lexus came to exist solely because of Honda and their creation of the Acura brand for their swankier offerings here in the States. I really enjoyed this video by the way. I've always found it perplexing whenever someone likes to correlate those cars that weren't sales successes as somehow being less than desirable today or not as good as those vehicles that were sales successes. You've certainly shown that beautiful looking cars do not guarantee sales success.
I was very lucky working for jaguar cars as an apprentice in the late 90's, and spent a couple of weeks in the works service department, and they had a few of the 220's available and they took me out on a post service run, and they really are a very fast car.
Enjoyed the vid. Surprised you didn’t mention the Miura “bull horn” aping doors on Montreal (signature left by stylist of both) and since when were Deloreans front-engined? They were rear engined (closely related to Alpines of the time), with a lotus esque backbone chassis (Colin was closely linked to production development).
Entertaining video Jack but a couple of slips others have noticed. The pronunciation of Jaguar sounded very American which really surprised me. The Citroen was always going to be a disastrous thing due to Gallic and Italian manufacturers being poles apart. Anyway cheers from OZ.
I'll take them all but the DeLorean. There used to be a Montreal that parked on Tynemouth Front Street in the mid to late 70s, it was rusting even then. Jagwa?
Good video Used to hate the XJ220 but more recently think it’s an amazing looking thing The Toyota is pretty in a similar way to an E Type but it does nothing for me
Ahh yes. I live in Belfast. I was just a boy when they started making them. I live very close to where the factory was. My neighbour worked there polishing the stainless bodywork.
I know two people who own DeLoreans. Actually, the handling isn't too bad, but the performance is mediocre and the build quality is appalling. There aren't many cars where you can shut the doors and see daylight past the seals.
Jack tripping over his script, a bit... the DeLorean was "front-engined, it had a steel spline"... No, it wasn't. It was meant to be mid-engined, but ended up with the Renault engine hung behind the rear axle line (hence rear-engined) and the revolutionary "plastic" chassis was re-engineered by Lotus to have a steel SPINE chassis (similar to that which first appeared in the Elan - but swapped around to accommodate the engine at the rear - something Lotus also did for the Europa). And Jack repeated the "spline" howler talking about the Toyota 2000GT! Let's put it down to being in a hurry to post the video...
THanks Jack, love these historical type of vids. Perhaps one on defunct small brands like Iso would be fun to do. Over here in Canada a brand called Manic from Quebec produced a fetching mid-engined car, the Manic GT which might be worth a look or tie in to oddball brands. Cheers.
Another I always liked out of New Brunswick, Canada was the Bricklin. There was one down the road from me as a kid. Gull wing doors, composite body work... it was a thing of beauty to look at.
The Brera was also a big disappointment. My 3.2 AWD was an unmitigated disaster. One of the most beautiful cars I’ve owned. And good at literally nothing. Slow to 100, no top end and a fuel guzzler of note!
The issue with the Brera was the Premium chassis Alfa were given by GM( was meant for Saab). The chassis was very strong 💪, down side it was very heavy which blunted performance, later cars had weight removed and Prodrive fettle the handling.
Hi Jack . The Toyota 2000 GT had an inline 6 engine , the MF10 with a Yamaha designed head , not a V6 . A few last models , had the MF12 engine , with much simpler head , less powerfull and different , ugly , headlights .
Vids like this are great. Finding out some me history is a change. Also great when doing things as can play and is more a listen than watch, as usually required. 👍
Again Jack, thank you for a great production. As an American living in Germany, you continue to educate me. Cheers. Still interested in the Bizmarc. Not sure I spelled that correctly.
Nice list; but I think perhaps you overlooked one that isn't quite as obvious. The McLaren F1. People forget now, but McLaren couldn't sell them. They sold some obviously but they plan to sell a lot more. They were just considered insanely expensive. And now look what they go for
Agree to that Kevin. Do you not think that it is still the best car in the world? Gordon Murray, what a designer, the Smart Car thro to the F1. When you buy the F1, you could do with a passenger (or two) .......... call me.
Hello all!! As has been pointed out, the DeLorean is rear engined, not front.. and the 6 cylinder in the Toyota is a straight, not a V! Was aware of both these details but being a dork it unconsciously came out wrong!
I can see why a Brit would lapse into delirium when the DMC 12 is mentioned. It put quite a dent in the Royal treasury, lol.
Mong, haha, not heard that since i was at school, a long time ago! Lol.
@@howardscott7521 im afraid it was us tax-payers that paid for all that, all so someone in america could make a little film about a car....
@@spotty_cat26 please, nobody check where it is derived from, oops....
We all make little slip ups. Still an interesting video.
Jack, two small things. The Alfa Romeo Montreal had a cross plane crank instead of the Tipo 33's flat plane crank. I think you miss read. Toyota 2000 is an inline six, not V6.
As always, best greetings from Sweden.
alao the delorean wasn’t front engined
a couple of edits required. DMC isn't front wheel drive nor the Toyota a V6
Montreal is a 2.6L V8 but minor details! You can get handling kits for them which vastly improve the handling.
Love the Montreal. They came with a mechanichal SPICA fuel injection system that could be troublesome and not many mechanics were (or are) familiar with it. That was one of the reasons prices stayed low for a long time. The reason it was a failure: the oil crisis in 1973. It cannot be stressed how important that event was for European manufacturers. It killed off sp many models from non-high-end brands. The Montreal came out at the wrong time for Europe and it never had a chance competing with the larger and much cheaper V8s ubiquitous in the States.
Spica injection on the 4cylinder US models was very reliable and low maintenance. They were very easy to set up. Adjusting the idle was simple. Adjusting the mixture for power or economy was extremely easy. The only electrical part was the closed throttle fuel cut off. By exploiting that cut off feature you can get surprisingly good economy in urban, suburban and mountain driving.
As far as I can tell, the two reasons that it used to be popular to switch from Spica to carbs are that with Spica you were limited to the stock throttle diameters, while Webers have different available choke sizes and larger models. The other reason has to do with the romance of the traditional layout.
Gandini designed cars seemed to really suffer from the old US requirement for 5mph bumpers. Those looked awful on the Maserati Khamsin, as well. They were bad for handling, too. Removing 100 pounds from each end of my Alfetta transformed it.
I'd still have a Montreal to this day. Just a stunning looking car. Similarly (although more obviously) the Jag XJ220. Oh and the Toyota.
Alfa Romeo Montreal. 2.6 liter V8 natural aspirated with 200 HP in the early 70's is not much HP? Number 27 are you feeling well mate? It is a fast car still to this days, but for sure back in the days.
Yep for a top of the range car and with a V8 it is lacking power... Jag XJS 5.3 V12 had 300hp...also BMW E9 CSL was around 260 hp from a 6cylinder..etc...even Alfa 75 from 80s had better acceleration
@@alexluke84 It has a 2.6 liter V8 and weigthed 1270 kg. And in some countries depending it had up to 230 HP!
200 HP minimum from a 2.6 liter is very much! You show me other cars from that area with more HP per liter without a turbo...they are rare!
It's a fast car for it's days and with the fuel injection way ahead of it's time!
Even Shevy Camaro with a 5.7 liter did not produce more power in total. So i think you don't know what you are talking about!
0-60 miles in 7.6 sec in fast in the 1970's! Crazy how people are so misinformed...
Alfa 75 was 15 years later produced!
That Montreal though, gotta be one of the most beautiful Alfas ever made.
One of the most beautiful cars ever, full stop.
Not for me. Pretty average. So many more beautiful alfas.
I do believe the engine of the DeLorean is not in the front
I do belive your right
@@FTW523.his right?
The 2000GT story reminds me a lot of the Lexus LFA (which, of course, is the spiritual successor of the 2000GT). Was very expensive, built by companies that is not known for making such hi-po machine, Yamaha did the engine, and was unappreciated when new.
Oh, and both now costs easily into a million quid to get, and I would sell my family just to get one.
Lfa isn't a million quid
@@willb3486 It Will B soon enough.
@@hj6084 you naughty boy
Well! The Montreal’s 200hp was actually a lot at the time and yes, more than the formentioned Dino. :)
Sure, the chassie let it down, especially to think of the Alfetta at the time.
Li alfa Montreal per motivi economici venne penalizzato il suo sviluppo e come disse il progettista della linea gandini venne fatto entrare il v8 in una struttura più piccola di quella che doveva essere il prototipo originale e questo penalizzo la linea finale della macchina e le prestazioni nonostante tutto rimane una bella macchina
The DMC12 was actually rear-engined, not front engined, one of the reasons why the handling was so terrible, together with the relatively high center of gravity.
Not to mention how crappy the motor was.
And wasn't the fuel delivery system kind of weird? I think it was a two-carb model, with one carb feeding 4 cylinders and another smaller carb feeding two cylinders?
@@THillick My dad had a Volvo 264GLE with that engine. The car itself was indestructible, the engine was not. Also not very fast, but very thirsty.
The Delorean is apparently an inox, gullwing version of the Alpine A310. I think they used basically the same PRV v6 in the same rear position, and "2+2" interior (Two, plus two infants). Alpine tried to make the 310 competitive in rallying, but it seems that the old A110 actually had more effective and controllable handling, despite its obsolete swing axles.
Who doesn't know the DMC12 was a rear engined car. Have they never seen back to the future? How can a guy be a automotive journalist without knowing the DeLorean wasn't a front engined car?
I really like this format as a supplement to the regular videos. In a way, this video is a kind of compressed and sensible format of the videos that your fellow countryman in the channel "Big Car" makes and this tells quite a lot because he is good. Keep up the good work :)
Thank you very much! I love his vids!
I agree
I has the "big car" feel as soon as I started listening... not a bad thing
I think you are forgetting another reason the XJ220 flopped, the recession that hit shortly after they revealed it.
Quite right!! Thanks!
@@Number27 Great video by the way, you could probably do a full video on each car.
The Montreal is such a stunning looking car, with those Miura looks (the designer is of course the same person), I sincerely wish I had bought one when they were cheap as chips, sort of..hindsight is a wonderfully annoying thing!
🤣🤣 I agree!!
In the 80s Montreals, 105s and Dinos were all so cheap. You could pick up a Dino then for £10k, nobody wanted them because 'they aren't a real Ferrari'. How times change! Always loved the Montreal, very reminiscent of the Miura to my eyes.
saw several slightly tatty Montys for sale in the 80s for less than 5k. I never took the plunge because they had a terrible reputation for bad reliability and impossible to get parts for. Wish I'd bought one now.
My vw corrado was a massive flop but is now well loved.
Dint think the Corrado was ever a flop??
@@Number27 here in the states it was lol
Pretty sure the Delorean DMC-12 is not front engined. Great video though.
Absolutely right, rear engines.. slip
Of the tongue!
As a young fellow l aways wanted to own that Toyota GT, settled eventually for an E Type, love the profile of both. By the time I made my move, the Toyota was "unobtainium".
12:07...the Delorean was front-engined?1? It was a woeful vehicle for a lot of reasons but it did manage to shove that horrid Renault lump into the back.
Not sure if would call the situation in Northern Ireland as a "war zone" at the time.
Jaguar were not part of Auston Rover/Rover Group in the late 1980s -they were floated on the stock marker in 1984, bought by Ford in (I think) 1989.
Absolutely right, thank you for the correction!!
As I recall from back then, ie early 70's, the price for the Alfa Montreal was the killer. 200bhp was not diminutive, contrary to what you imply. I do think the Montreal must be one of the most beautful cars.
Great video Jack…despite being an Alfa fan, the Montreal has never really done it for me for some reason…and don’t get me started on the Delorean. Just a minor correction that others seemed to have missed: the Toyota 2000GT had a DOHC straight six rather than a V6. Can’t wait to see how the Bismerc is progressing!
Absolutely, I have a habit of unconsciously referring to any 6 as a V6!!
@@Number27 love your channel, your enthousiasm and how you deal with all kinds of car issues. One little thing... the engine of the Delorian is in the back.
I believe it's a really ugly Alfa.
I know that's an oxymoron but that's what it is, in my eyes. Just compare it to the Ferrari's of the time.
So in You Only Live Twice, Bond rides both a Toyota and a Suzuki:)
The SM is a beautiful car, so different to everything else on the road
If it wasn't for Back to the Future that DMC would have faded in to obscurity long ago.
You described the main issue of the Toyota 2000 - its too small for us Europeans. So I dont think "snobbery" was the issue, since car makers like Porsche or BMW werent that much of a deal either at that time. ;-) After WWII most companies had to find their philosophy and build up their reputation.
In fact, the equally Japanese, although much less sophisticated and more sensibly priced Datsun 240Z was a colossal success.
@@betaorionis2164 and you could get in it!🤣🤣🤣
Aloha Jack , nice blog with some interesting facts & theories , 1 error , the Toyota GT is a straight 6 , not a V6 :) . Keep up the interesting content.
The DMC12 is rear engined - you can see the engine in the back of the factory pictures you used!
Yes, rear-engined, not mid-engined which was what was originally planned with the rotary engine.
Always loved the Montreal despite its shortcomings. Nearly bought one a long time ago but the rust put me off and now the prices are too much of a stretch!
I have a story to tell about trying to buy a 2000GT in 1985. Back then it took a huge amount of effort to find that there were just *two* examples in the UK at the time. I managed to persuade one owner to consider selling and promptly drove 300 miles to meet him. But to my absolute horror - I could not get into the driving seat at all. I’m around 6’2 and reasonable normal shape (!) but I could not contort my legs to get under/past the steering wheel, and the pedals were seemingly designed for someone 5ft high. This meant I would not have been able to operate the pedals properly even if I could of found a way to sit in the driving seat with custom smaller wheel. It also became clear that even sitting sideways in the drivers seat that my head was pressed up hard against the roof lining requiring. It was like I was sitting in a children's scale model car and this is clear from watching Connery trying to sit in just the passenger seat of the convertible made for him and the film. I really wanted to own it, and drive it, and not wrap it in cotton wool and store in a collection as an investment, so with great reluctance I had to give up on the dream :-( Folks maybe interested to know that the asking price at the time was ‘a mere’ £20k, and they are now frequently in classic car auctions for $850,000 to $1,200,000. Ouch ! All I have to show for it now is lots of photos, some books and magazine reviews and a limited run book about the cars evolution, signed by the designer, and numerous letters back and forth with him. The owner of the Toyota had a very large collection of other rarities, mostly classic Maserati’s and Ferrari’s from the 50-60’s and this was before the late 80’s classic car boom. I have no idea what happened to them all, but if he had of kept the lot, the collection would be worth at the very least £10+Million based on the photos I took at the time.
I saw the Toyota at the Belfast Motor Show (must have been the early 70's) and had to be dragged away . . . We also had a couple of Montreals that would occasionally turn up in Lisburn (where I lived) - one at my school, oddly enough.
I've loved both from first sight.
I also used to see the De Lorean prototypes out on their test drives from time to time. I wonder what I did with the brochure . . .
When we talk about commercial disasters from 90s, the first two that come to my mind is Clio V6 and BMW Z3 Coupé
DMC front engined - sheesh. I guess your four minute piece would always be a bit simplistic.
Great video Jack! You hit the nail on the head with the 2000GT. If that had been designed by a German, or even British, manufacturer, the car would likely have been a success (maybe a bit bigger inside also...). Personally, I think it's one of the most beautifully designed cars, and would go out of my way to purchase one if the funds allowed it.
I nearly bought one in the early 90s for 5 grand!!!! I only didn;t buy it because I just could not get in it. If only if only!!!!!!!
@@TIMMEH19991 If a car is too small, only short people will buy it!
At one point I looked at a Fiat X-19, but because I was on the taller side at 5'10", i was at eye-level with top of the windscreen and the seat really needed to go another couple of inches, which was impossible as there was the engine firewall in the way!
However, there'll always be those who purchase vehicles that are totally unsuitable for their stature or job, just because they want the image it represents!
OMG the DMC12, literally built at the end of my street. Early 80's Primary School, we saw the transporters moving them out. Also there was a Ford factory close by as well, building engines and other components (grandfather was a foreman there), so we didnt build cars, but NI had alot of engineers, aero, nautical, agricultural, and auto...so yeah there was that.
Actually, the delorean wasn't NI's first car manufacturer. That would be Chambers Motors, who operated in the early 1910s and 20s
Buy a DeLorean for £40k, then go back to 1982 and buy a hundred of them, store them for 30 years then sell them :)
If only.. Caeser!
Thanks Jack, some great info in here that I hadn't realised before. I know it's probably "mis-speaking" but that's a straight six in the Toyota and the DeLorean was rear engined. Still, you do a far better job of this kind of thing than I could. Keep on going - great work. And I really want to see the BisMerc moving onwards!
Thanks Andy and yes.. I have a habit of saying V6 instead of straight six!! Not the first time!
Nice one. I really like the 2000 GT. I was getting quite excited until you mentioned the price tag. Never mind.
I sat in the Alpha Romeo Montreal during Expo 67. I thought that it was absolutely beautiful. What most impressed my tweenage mind was that the speedometer topped out at 200 (possibly 300). Of course I had never heard of the metric system at that point.
ALFA ALFA ALFA!!!!!!!!
Very informative! Some top cars there too - especially the SM and Montreal!
Because not enough people have already chewed you out for the DeLorean engine placement booboo...I believe You misspoke about the year DeLorean got started. You said 1966, but the company was formed in 1975 and the prototype came along in 1976. 1966, I think, was about the high point at Pontiac, but then they kicked him to the curb in 1972 or 1973, IIRC.
Looking at the content list while I watch all would be in my dream garage. Possibly with the exception of the DMC12.
That’s just a bad car but helped by a certain film series to keep it in the public eye.
Edit: 12:10 front engined? Slip of the tongue there.
As a commercial proposition the Veyron reportedly cost VW millions per car and back in the day the DB5 Aston Martin was a huge loss maker. Like the story of the chap that went into a dealer and said ‘I’m a friend of David Brown and he said I could buy a car at cost price, certainly sir that’s £400 more than the ticket price.. 😆😆
Thanks Jack. Love the history of these cars. I think if I had room in the garage I'd love the Toyota. Not because of the highest price. But because you just don't see them anywhere, and they really got that side profile spot on 👌
Yep, I love them too!!
Hello, Citroen bankruptcy was due to the investment on rotary engine development and even more the two factories built which did sold any engine. Then Citroen built another factory to produce the CX launched in 1974. The SM did not play much in the financial issue Citroen faced at the time. What did not help the SM is the strange new US regulation related to the need for constant bumbers hight which forced Citroen to resign from selling it in the biggest market. And the reliability which today is easily fixed.
Jack, you didn't announce what the Jaguar model was, although I'm sure most petrol heads know! Interesting video though.
12:08 The DeLorean is rear engined.
I'm over the DeLorean - not counting the one in the movie of course - but the rest of these cars look really good to me. There you go.. You can have a troubled start to life, and still end up being worth something :)
Absolutely right on the DMC, slip of the tongue!!
Thanks Jack. I really enjoyed this video. I recently watched Jay Leno’s garage where he takes out a xj220. Jay loves the car, but the owner of the car he drives indicates the decision to make it 2wd and V6 was because the tyre technology was not up to the heavier weight and forces a V12 would produce. Who knows what the truth is?
I loved them as a teenager and still do now.
Thanks for watching Robert!!
The XJ220 engine was not 'just' a V6 - it was the Metro 6R4 engine...
You could perhaps have included the Lancia Montecarlo in this group Jack - just so we can hear you pronounce it correctly!
Despite being in the US, My Dad crashed a new SM on a test drive (mom's last Cit was a 71' DS21 Pallas), we have a local Montreal in perfect condition and we have an S2000 in the lobby at work
:)
Out of just under 3000 produced, it is estimated 800- 1500 Bricklins remain. People are starting to look at them as prices climb for other classics. All the bugs were worked out after the factory closed. Just about all parts including body panels are available. Also, the car didn't come with a spare tire as Malcolm felt tires were very reliable. New cars today don't come with one. And this was back in 74-75.
Fun summary.
The other problem with the Montreal was its Spica (?) fuel injection, which was horridly unreliable. The instrument cluster also takes some getting used to!
On the Jaguar, working backward the value you quote for an XJ220 today is pretty much the same as for that heavily discounted final car in the '90s. Prices were depressed by those who had placed deposits for a V12, 4WD car and/or now were caught in the financial crash suing the Company for their money back, while the Company was busy suing customers reneging on their purchases.
I don't think Guigiaro designed 'countless' Ferraris, I had to check but I make it three: 2 early 250 Bertone Speciali and one 2005 concept.
The poor DeLorean wasn't just impeded by its asthmatic, rough, 90 degree V6 Renault engine. It also had in effect 2 bodies, a fibreglass underbody with the stainless steel on top. This wasn't the initial intention but on its own added several hundred pounds of unwelcome porkiness.
The Toyota, gorgeous, and apparently great to drive, if you can get in. As you say, there's a reason Connery insisted on a convertible!
On the 4cylinder models Spica was very reliable, trouble free and easily tunable, though limited by the diameter of the throttles. I have no experience with the early version used on the "1750", but the 2 liter version worked fine.Throttle response, performance, economy and sound are all great with Spica.
Wow. $7,000 for a brand new Porsche 911. I was born too late to appreciate the times.
The DeLorean was front-engined only if driven backwards.
Nobody's perfect.
the toyota , you mention a v6 engine but the picture is clearly an inline 6 with 3 carburetor on the side and dual camshaft overhead setup
Great video Jack although the Toyota 2000 GT predated the successful Datsun Z line which launched in 1969 in the USA and 1970 here although the 1600 & 2000 Roadsters were sold prior to the 240Z and I think some may have been badged Fairlady Z for the home market. Those didn’t sell in huge numbers I think and didn’t come to the UK as far as I’m aware
So...I've been putting my flux capacitor at the wrong end of my car. No wonder I can't go back to the future!
I remember the Jaguar V-12 in IMSA XJR-5 racing at both Sears Point Raceway and Laguna Seca. The sound was AMAZING! Sounded like ripping of the space time continuum! That power unit would have been amazing in a street car with four driven wheels.
I think the Toyota was the best looking car of the bunch. Beautiful.
Great video Jack! You are so good at this genre, I would encourage you to do more.
Oh Lord, the DeLorean! What a horrid, horrid car. Stainless steel body that collected fingerprints as quickly as your fridge, and abysmal QC with irregular panel gaps that would make a Tesla look like a Porsche. They sat unloved on dealer lots forever. Another great video Jack. I really enjoy your style. I feel like I am sitting, having a beer with you. Well done!
I visited the Delorean factory at Dunmurry in Belfast in 1981. Was offered a job at 10K a year!
I was worried about the longer term and didn't bother taking them up on it....
I agree with you that it was a bit anemic, but, no worse than a Capri of the time. Have seen an Alfa Romeo Montreal & Maserati SM and wondered what I can do to have either of them....Nice video and enjoy your Italian when you get an Italian marque! I don't know if anybody has reviewed the Lancia Gamma & Fiat 130 coupés as classics on You Tube, of course I might be wrong!
I was one of the few thousand crazy people who fell in love and bought an 82 Lancia Gamma 2500 iE Coupé back in 85. And I was probably the only owner who was silly enough to drive it as a daily car (I tried not to but I failed). It was my love, and when I finally had to say goodbye in 2001 (at over 260k km, probably world record with that car), my heart broke. The coupé was a Pininfarina masterpiece of art, a timeless classic, a sculpture. The engine was pure joy (when well maintained and not broke) - not the quickest car but at that time respectable for a comfortable 4-seater coupé with its 140 hp, 195 km/h top speed, and 9.5 seconds 0 to 100km/h. Unfortunately, the engine had various issues (mainly with blown head gaskets), the maintenance was a nightmare and extremely expensive, the body was prone to rust corrosion, and finding spare parts got more and more difficult. I spent more on that car than on all other cars I had combined but the joy I had driving it on the road was worth every cent I spent. That being said, the Gamma sedan was ugly as hell. The 130 Coupé was pure beauty, too, so was the 80s Maserati Quattroporte. Loved the Montreal, too, and almost bought it, but the Gamma Coupé won.
I know you've corrected the Delorean engine point but as a Delorean owner can I also point out that JZD was found not guilty of drug smuggling (it was blatant entrapment by the FBI)? JZD was no angel but he wasn't a drug smuggler. Also, the reason the Catholic and Protestant workers had different entrances was because they lived in different communities at each end of the factory. Inside the factory they worked happily side by side.
XJ220 was built in Bloxham, Oxfordshire....Wykham Mill, my grand dad worked at the mill years before Jaguar purchased it 👍
Whenever a failed project is described as "ahead of its time", it means one of two things; it addressed a problem that didn't yet exist, or it created problems that hadn't yet been solved. Either way, a failure. (The phrase crops up a lot in both aviation and military technical history.)
Thanks Jack this was excellent. As noted by another poster, a great addition to the channel in the feel of Big Car. I do note however the first still picture of the SM is a rotary of sorts, an NSU Ro80 or very early Mazda. Minor nit picking which did not detract at all from a great mini-doc.
Very nice...and a good choice. Someday please do a show on the Maserati Biturbo.
See the 1970 SM, see the 2006 C6
Both lovely looking and no sales
The Jag had a 6R4 engine but wasn't the racer using that unit as well but yes it should have had the V12. Love the TWR modified cars but I love the TWR's own take on a super car the XJR15 which I think was styled by Peter Stevens. Also love the SM really looking forward to Up and Downs restoration. The Montreal was really interesting, I remember seeing one for sale locally in the mid 90's for £8k but they also had a mint Gamma coupe for about £2k. The Montreal always looked to narrow and spikey but brilliant looks. Can't warm to the Delorean I always thought the Espirit looked better. The Toyota 2000GT was stunning car, love to actually see one in the flesh.
Remember seeing a 2000GT restoration project at a classic show inside Alexander Palace in the mid 90s, was very rough.
My claim to fame is getting stuck in an XJ220 at Millbrook test facility in 1980s - it was an amazing car but difficult for a 6ft chap to get in and out of! Sadly I didn't get to drive it but I know why not - a young sale engineer is not trustworthy! 🤣
Cool, I was at the NEC motor show when they unveiled the XJ220, I preferred the F40. Still got a load of pics somewhere... and is that a Kyosho Optima mid on the right??
It is yes!! SWB version!
Great item did you do much research ? Delorean did so much good for N Ireland.....many unpaid employees carried on working when they went bust....so loyal !
I had always assumed that Lexus came to exist solely because of Honda and their creation of the Acura brand for their swankier offerings here in the States. I really enjoyed this video by the way. I've always found it perplexing whenever someone likes to correlate those cars that weren't sales successes as somehow being less than desirable today or not as good as those vehicles that were sales successes. You've certainly shown that beautiful looking cars do not guarantee sales success.
I was very lucky working for jaguar cars as an apprentice in the late 90's, and spent a couple of weeks in the works service department, and they had a few of the 220's available and they took me out on a post service run, and they really are a very fast car.
Enjoyed the vid. Surprised you didn’t mention the Miura “bull horn” aping doors on Montreal (signature left by stylist of both) and since when were Deloreans front-engined? They were rear engined (closely related to Alpines of the time), with a lotus esque backbone chassis (Colin was closely linked to production development).
Entertaining video Jack but a couple of slips others have noticed. The pronunciation of Jaguar sounded very American which really surprised me. The Citroen was always going to be a disastrous thing due to Gallic and Italian manufacturers being poles apart. Anyway cheers from OZ.
I'll take them all but the DeLorean. There used to be a Montreal that parked on Tynemouth Front Street in the mid to late 70s, it was rusting even then.
Jagwa?
Good video
Used to hate the XJ220 but more recently think it’s an amazing looking thing
The Toyota is pretty in a similar way to an E Type but it does nothing for me
Ahh yes. I live in Belfast. I was just a boy when they started making them. I live very close to where the factory was. My neighbour worked there polishing the stainless bodywork.
the De Lorean has a rear engine and the 2000GT a straiight six, not a V6 :-)
I know two people who own DeLoreans. Actually, the handling isn't too bad, but the performance is mediocre and the build quality is appalling. There aren't many cars where you can shut the doors and see daylight past the seals.
Jack tripping over his script, a bit... the DeLorean was "front-engined, it had a steel spline"... No, it wasn't. It was meant to be mid-engined, but ended up with the Renault engine hung behind the rear axle line (hence rear-engined) and the revolutionary "plastic" chassis was re-engineered by Lotus to have a steel SPINE chassis (similar to that which first appeared in the Elan - but swapped around to accommodate the engine at the rear - something Lotus also did for the Europa). And Jack repeated the "spline" howler talking about the Toyota 2000GT! Let's put it down to being in a hurry to post the video...
Nice video, like them all except the DeLorean, on which I think you miss-spoke, it's definitely rear engined.
Yep!! Slip of the tongue!! Thanks for watching!
THanks Jack, love these historical type of vids. Perhaps one on defunct small brands like Iso would be fun to do. Over here in Canada a brand called Manic from Quebec produced a fetching mid-engined car, the Manic GT which might be worth a look or tie in to oddball brands. Cheers.
Ill look it up thanks!!
Another I always liked out of New Brunswick, Canada was the Bricklin. There was one down the road from me as a kid. Gull wing doors, composite body work... it was a thing of beauty to look at.
@@marceld6061 Yeah Bricklin is an interesting story too. Could be included with oddball brands for sure.
Thanks for that, Jack. Very interesting!
The XJ220s engine is essentially the engine out of the Metro 6R4 rally car. They could be had for about £150-170k back in the late 90s early 00s.
The Brera was also a big disappointment. My 3.2 AWD was an unmitigated disaster. One of the most beautiful cars I’ve owned. And good at literally nothing. Slow to 100, no top end and a fuel guzzler of note!
Agree .. but I think they still sold a few!!
The issue with the Brera was the Premium chassis Alfa were given by GM( was meant for Saab). The chassis was very strong 💪, down side it was very heavy which blunted performance, later cars had weight removed and Prodrive fettle the handling.
Another great video Jack. All the best
Hi Jack . The Toyota 2000 GT had an inline 6 engine , the MF10 with a Yamaha designed head , not a V6 . A few last models , had the MF12 engine , with much simpler head , less powerfull and different , ugly , headlights .
Great feature Jack, very enjoyable.
Most beautiful car, imho!
Great video Jack, really well researched and presented.
The Toyota 2000GT was a straight six
Vids like this are great. Finding out some me history is a change. Also great when doing things as can play and is more a listen than watch, as usually required. 👍
Again Jack, thank you for a great production. As an American living in Germany, you continue to educate me. Cheers. Still interested in the Bizmarc. Not sure I spelled that correctly.
@Rinda Foty I will be celebrating the 31st anniversary of my 18th birthday this June.
@@lomaii2847 danke !
Thanks for the trip down memory lane Jack!
Nice list; but I think perhaps you overlooked one that isn't quite as obvious. The McLaren F1. People forget now, but McLaren couldn't sell them. They sold some obviously but they plan to sell a lot more. They were just considered insanely expensive. And now look what they go for
Agree to that Kevin. Do you not think that it is still the best car in the world?
Gordon Murray, what a designer, the Smart Car thro to the F1.
When you buy the F1, you could do with a passenger (or two) .......... call me.
Interesting on the F1!! Never realised they had trouble sellling them!
@@Number27 only 106 built and 64 were road cars. Production was halted due to lack of demand iirc.
Great video , more of these please.
Just have to say, you brits have a knack for making fun and entertaining, informative short videos on cars. keep up the good work, Jack.
Thank you so much Michael, that is SO nice to hear!!