REDDITORS: I am as surprised as you are. I've been told that some vegans worked together to produce a QR code on r/place that leads to this video. This was nothing to do with me. So, if you feel conned into being here, please don't dislike the video, it's not my fault! If you decided to watch the video, then thanks, and welcome to the channel!
R/Place is a reddit where ppl can draw stuff with pixels each person can place one pixel every 5 minutes and there was an QR code and it redirected some ppl to this video
It's a aprils fools on reddit, where you get a huge canvas, and every 5 minutes you get to set the color of one pixel on the canvas. A group has gone together to make a Qr-code one the canvas that leads to this video
I am 70. I have lived with these notions in the back of my consciousness all my life. I have never done anything to change my habits in all that time because a) I believed the alternative was unhealthy/less healthy and b) there was no pressure for me to do anything about it. More recently I have discovered a) a balanced vegan diet is possibly the most wholesome diet available and b) vegan diets are very much better for the environment. So I flipped. No more meat for me. No more moral double-think.
It takes a strong mind to change after all that time. It takes a very vivid mind to change that aspect of your life at 70. You sir are more alive that most people of my age, best of lucks.
Thank for helping end the Animal Holocoust. All the info on Vegan is on Gary Yourravsky talk The Greatest Speech Ever. It's here on TH-cam. Watch it now. th-cam.com/video/_K36Zu0pA4U/w-d-xo.html
We've all been there, going along until someone opens our minds to think about it all. For me it was a dvd called Meet your Meat, that was it, went vegan that day lol
Scarlett Richards Virtually every vegan I know or have met (that would be literally many thousands) were just like you at one time......I'm no exception. For 26 years of my life I was a carnist (I don't mean that in any pejorative manner) and it wasn't till I was first confronted with the notion of going vegetarian through a conversation with my then girlfriend that I even began to think about animals in a different way from how I was culturally conditioned to think of them. At first I immediately dismissed the idea out of hand because of the same reason most carnists are taken slightly aback by the idea of themself going vegan.....that reason being the cultural conditioning that we are subjected to since we are infants. That cultural conditioning relentlessly imbues upon us norms of behavior which are not necessarily morally responsible. It is that same cultural conditioning that in previous generations permitted most people in our culture at one time to believe that it's okay for black people, women, and gays to be seen and treated with less value than those who were responsible for instilling those views into us through various means including laws that didn't afford protections against unjust treatment. Today, it is a much better situation for blacks, women, and gay people......but not for those innocent individuals whom just happen to have been born a different species of animal than the human variety. At 26 years of age, struggling to loosen the chains of my own cultural conditioning, I began to challenge that (my) conditioning and the warped perceptions that were a consequence of that cultural conditioning (such as that I can't be healthy without consuming animal products.....and that the purpose of animals is for humans to use and exploit them for whatever person perceived or real (e.g. economic) benefits we can concoct) . I read, and researched, and listened to others whom had already broken free from the shackles of cultural conditioning (they were vegans). Going thru that challenge was the greatest awakening I've ever had.....and it led me to one undeniable fact: that there is no moral justification for my complicity in using and harming other animals. For the past 27 years now I've been a woke vegan. Every year that passes I feel stronger and more clear thinking. I encourage you to do research and reading and listening to the voices of people who have liberated themselves from the shackles of cultural conditioning and the cult like carnist beliefs that have been ingrained into us from a very young age. Ask as many questions as you feel you need.......all the answers are already out there. Thank you in advance for having an open mind and for looking to widen your circle of moral consider to include even the animals bred for profits to be killed and served up on dinner plates.
I think this topic is something that when people start thinking about and looking into, it actually opens people's eyes. Yeah the media likes to scold them, the average person likes to joke about their steak and bacon and vegans generally get all kinds of labels. But that's just what they're being painted as. If the topic has more of a presence in your life you'll definitely think about it more and question your actions more and more each day. If you actually research the industries, what vegans stand for and all the nutritional stuff, you'll likely find yourself becoming vegan as a result. People like to frame that as the brainwashing but, look at what you've been told all your life... wouldn't you consider THAT the brainwashing? THAT the belief system put in place?
You're already a vegan philosophically, all that's left is switching your diet so that it aligns with your morals/logic. Cheers for being intellectually honest.
1999 he’s not he said in his debate with IP that he’s a moral non-cognitivist but then he said in his channel that morality is subjective which made him a moral subjectivist. He didn’t label himself as a moral ninilisn though his meta-ethical stance is quite similar.
Peeve Me the diet that causes the least harm to animals is eating grass fed cows. Animal products are also way more nutritious for humans than plants, so you don’t have as much human suffering either. 😀
Just stumbled across this video this morning, I wasn't ready for the force of the arguments you made. Even without any images of suffering, with only reasoning, I cried a little by the end. You leave no excuse for me to continue benefiting and encouraging the suffering. Thank you for opening my eyes and mind.
Thank you for a being an honest human. You won't regret it. My only word of advice is be 100% sure you are eating enough calories. It really helps to use chronometer and weigh your foods for the first month or so. Also black and french green lentils are a fantastic dietary staple for ensuring you consume enough protein if you are worried about that sort of thing.
You are a weak minded individual. Why on earth would you cry over this? An animal's life is objectively worth less than a human's craving of meat. Don't drag moral philosophy into how people choose to sustain themselves. Otherwise you're no better than the herbivorous lesser beings that call themselves vegan. Grow up.
@@harukasatou1359 An entire life of a sentient being's suffering is worth less than a few minutes of pleasure? Imma press X to doubt that man. And if we shouldn't drag moral philosophy into food, why should we drag it into anything else? If you use this to discredit vegan arguments despite not needing to consume animal products, shouldn't you say "don't drag moral philosophy into how people choose to have fun" when someone kicks dogs for fun, despite not needing to do so?
I remember taking a nap on the grass at my college and being annoyed at some vegan on a megaphone nearby...after a while of being forced to listen I thought “damn it, he’s right.” But my justification for continuing to eat meat/LIVE via cheese was that ‘striving to be morally perfect is an unrealistic goal’ or something like that... About 7 months later I aligned my actions with my moral values, and I like myself better for it. (Plus, my severe acne disappeared!!)
Bro you just got the biggest advertisement for your channel. It’s a reddit thing where everyone places pixels and makes images. Some one put a QR code and it happens to link to this video!
One of the best, if not the best, video I’ve seen on the ethics of veganism, made by a meat-eater. I did not expect that. Thank you and I really hope you decide to act accordingly.
Sy_ Maybe I’ll watch that, out of curiosity, but I don’t think anyone needs a response video to tell them what they need to think about this one. Ethics and logic are solid, or they’re not. I think this right here is super solid. In any case, I’ll come back here with my thoughts after I’ve had the chance to watch the response you mention.
We all agree that CosmicSkeptic is a priority, therefore, even though it fundamentally is subjective, we can treat it as an objective fact that we ought to set the priority to be this channel over sleep
@@Aperfull Alex made that point in his atheistic moral subjectivity video😂 (correct me if that's a strawman) as a caveat to his main argument, that's what I've been using to justify moral actions since 😂
"I'll ask you another question. If you were on a desert island with two humans, one is elderly, frail and disabled, the other youthful, intelligent and talented, and you were about to starve, which person would you eat?" - You're fine Alex, I won't eat you ;)
01:10 “Don't worry, my channel is not turning into a veganism advocacy channel or anything”. Narrator: It indeed was turning into a vegan advocacy channel.
Thank you so much Alex. I feel like the philosophy of animal rights and veganism is hugely underrepresented in the intellectual/philosophical communities even though it is ( as you point out yourself ) probably one of the most important topics.
That's because the majority of people don't give a shit about ethics and don't care about the suffering of others, so making ethical appeals is simply not broadly effective at converting people. So influential vegans tend to focus on appeals to health and the environment, because those arguments appeal to the selfishness in others. People are inherently selfish and want to do things that better their own lives. So if you tell someone that by going vegan they can lose weight and live longer it's going to be more effective in changing their mind.
@Atheist first! Happy Heathen! triggered atheist neckbeard detected "EVERYTHING THAT ISNT HUMAN HAS NO VALUE OR WORTH LOL DUMB VEGANS" wow bro such deep much insight
@Atheist first! Happy Heathen! Who said non-human animals deserve the right to vote ? Humans grant rights depending on the relevant traits of an individual. A pig doesn't understand the concept of voting or politics, therefore it doesn't deserve the right to vote. The same goes for a human child or a dog. What a human child and a pig (and a dog) have in common is the ability to feel pain & suffer as well as the will to live. Therefore those individuals deserve the right to live and bodily integrity. Did you understand the concept of " name the trait" ?
Alex. I believe this is one of the most important and impactfull videos you have ever made. Thank you. As I am sure many others have offered to do, I would be extremely happy to help you in your practical journey towards a vegan diet. Much love bro! Keep being a voice for reason, logic and morals, we need more of you out there
I went vegan alone around the same age, I’m glad there are more of us then just me, and I hope we can continue to show meat eaters that the issue at hand is so simple, children can figure it out👍❤️
If you don't beleive in god then there is no real arguement for why I should be moral. You can say "we should do this because its moral" yes it might be moral but you haven't made an argument for why I should be moral in the first place. I don't eat other humans because I don't want another human to eat me. But a cow provides no benfit to me other than for me to eat it
Those are very strong and sound arguments for veganism. I bet this guy is going to have a great career as vegan activist, especially after coining such a great quote: "Extraordinary suffering requires extraordinary justification"
When I read Alex' statement, for a second I hoped it was April 1st. I'm really interested in the details of his change of mind. At the same time I hope he won't spread false information about a plant based diet. He was so passionately engaged in this topic, speaking out for animals very often with a lot of conviction. I really believe him, that he meant it. Still it's sad, he had trouble feeling healthy. Alex does think deeply about things and it's open to change his mind. Maybe some day he will change it again.
“Great career as a vegan activist” “I’m a vegan” (Cosmic Sceptic). “I love animals” (Cosmic Sceptic). “But I’m not sure if I’d nuke all the animals if I left Earth” (Cosmic Sceptic) “Religion is bizaaaaarre” (Cosmic Sceptic) Oh the irony is killing me!! He would definitely have a very lucrative, “great career” as a British politician!! The irony is that we, that is the British people have to deal with this “bizaaaarre” posh British accent from conniving, deceitful politicians on a daily basis! So this accent is not impressive or convincing to us at all because we have a lot of history with people from this elitist background who pick up this posh accent when rubbing shoulders with the rich and powerful in the South of England!! Being British, I have to listen to the “bizaaaarre” members of parliament noise and the “bizaaaarre” noise from the House of Lords in England. What I find most “bizaaaarre” is why in the world anyone would trust what someone is saying is intelligent, genuine and trustworthy just because they have this posh “amiable” English accent!! The double irony and what is truly “bizaaaaarre” is that Cosmic Sceptic has now totally deserted the thousands of vegan fans who built up his patreon subscription as “Cosmic Sceptic” became so “sceptical” about his own fans vegan lifestyles that he is now actually not even a “vegan” anymore!! Which basically makes him a Judas in the eyes of the vegan anti natalist community!! What a surprise!! You couldn’t write this stuff!!
“Extraordinary suffering requires extraordinary justification” I look forward to hearing Cosmic Sceptics “extraordinary justification” for shunning veganism. I’m sure he’ll manage it as he’s a very “extraordinarily” experienced propagandist, particularly when it comes to sharing anti religious Soviet hate propaganda left over from the Cold War!! Source/Reference: th-cam.com/video/4WaIlxKan0g/w-d-xo.html
So just don't eat meat from processed meat factories. And just eat the eggs from your backyard. It's not hard to be ethical call not being vegan. You guys have a black & white view of reality..
same here. I had so many questions, so many arguments I was taught my whole life and felt like veganism was so flawed and not doable. I became vegan on my 19th birthday, and its been 2.5 years since that day.
Me and my girlfriend became vegan because of you. What a great man. Can't wait to see how much more you will influence our world for the better in the coming years
Veganism isn't an influence for the better. Morality is subjective and some people are going to have different opinions. Veganism turns people toxic towards eachother. If you don't want to personally harm animals, fine. Just please don't act all high and mighty.
@@Elrog3 I guess that's your opinion? I never acted all high and mighty. I think a lot of people assume vegans do that. And about morality, I disagree about it being subjective. Kinda.
@@Elrog3 that's ok, I didn't refer to the comment either. I mean in general, when it comes to veganism I don't act all high and mighty. I've been vegan for a fraction of my life so it would be weird to have that attitude. I think the typical toxic vegan who wants to convert everyone is nothing more than a stereotype. I will admit sometimes I get a bit frustrated and angry that we sit here and discuss philosophically while billions of sentient beings are being tortured and murdered. But hey, can't really do much about it.
@@fbarnea did you know plants can feel pain? It’s a different system, but pain equal to that of any Animal. There are even studies that suggest that they communicate it to each other. Does that mean you should stop eating all together? After all, why is your life worth more than corn, or broccoli. It is not worth more than for any reason than they are not human and not you. This Alex’s entire argument rests on the fact that animals are treated cruelly, and while it is possible, it is not a prerequisite. Cows are killed painlessly (spike through the skull) and I have no idea how chickens are killed. The point is, morals and survival have about as much to do with each other as practicality and questioning wether humans exist. Destroy the meat industry, destroy hundreds of human lives.
@@LouisGedo that's nice to hear, I'm not vegan yet. It's mainly because I was afraid of the health costs. But I did give up beef along with never eating pork due to my Islamic upbringing. I eat halal even though I'm atheist
@@AliJr_MetalGames_MetalGuitar Eating healthy whole foods plant based is actually not necessary expense. Some of the poorest people on the planet eat no meat and I know people who are on public assistance (meaning they subsist on very little money) who are entirely plant based. If you want to eat Beyond Burgers every day, then yes, that will be expensive. But a simple whole foods plant based diet can be relatively inexpensive.
@@AliJr_MetalGames_MetalGuitar Hey I'm an Ex muslim and I'm 17 too. I can only eat halal because if I don't, it might raise suspicion that I am not a Muslim anymore. Apostate execution is supported by the majority of my country.
Together with the all arguments against veganism ted talk by Ed Winters, this video made me go vegan. This is a good explanation of the ethical arguments without using any animal footage. No gore, no emotional plays, just the philosophical moral arguments. Anybody willing to introspect to himself and honest to himself will (I think) come to the same conclusion. Watch this, think about it. Try and apply the same scrutiny you would apply to this to your own ideas. Is it worth it? Is it really worth it? Be honest, go vegan.
this is literally what happened to me. I was the biggest meat eating edgelord until I watched a couple of these videos and actually forced myself to sit and seriously think about it for like 10 minutes. Now I've been vegan for just over a year
I've watched it, thought about it and concluded I really don't care. I'm not being edgy, just honest. Perhaps I'm in the state of cognitive dissonance because I also smoke despite knowing it's bad for me. I love animals but also feel zero guilt about eating them. My point is, humans aren't Vulkans from Star Trek, purely rational, led by logic and sound arguments. I think emotional appeal would actually convince way more people than moral philosophy. Btw, the strongest argument in my opinion, is the environmental one.
Mikkel Sørensen - not if I’m on the opposite side. Actually scratch that, he won’t have any impact because granted philosophy is his strong suit, he seems to not understand biology and economics, and natural way of the universe. Or simply ignore them to support a childish ideology.
@@MugenTJ it's not bad , the argument for practicality has been refuted time and time again. There is no valid reason to go vegan other than taste and economic reasons . But even then if veganism become popular plant based food will get cheaper
finally, a non bias philosophical discussion on veganism from a non vegan! you done an awesome job covering the ethics and morality of veganism, love it!!!!! you dont need anybody else to convince you, you know it already. listen to your heart aswell brother.
@@Elrog3 how the fuck is this biased. I like how you go in other threads and say you don't have time to respond, but here you are in this thread starting a new conversations... We get it, you are a psychopath that doesn't understand how empathy works and you have your routine of mental gymnastics to go with it...
@@Elrog3 Why did you dodge Bazileia 's comment? I think you are conflicted and know your position is unjustifiable and indefensible in our 1st world context.
i think it's wrong your parents choose for you, in being a vegan or not, you may have ended up being one anyway and that's fine but for them to decide for you is just wrong to me
@@Pumpkinbeam He didn't say his parents forced him but just raised him that way. When your a parent you have to raise a child one way or another, you could say the same about a parent who raises their children to eat meat.
@@JordanDinstrumentals yes but humans are omnivores it's in our biology and the way i body functions and a child doesn't have to eat meat if it is given to them, it is much harder for a child to obtain meat when it isn't given to them than it is for them to not eat the meat if it is given to them. you can raise your child to eat broccoli but they might not like it so they won't eat it even though it is given to them same could be said for meat. it is better to give them the option then to choose for them
people disappointed this isn’t a rickroll as if us vegans don’t live every day in perpetual disappointment that the world refuses to give moral consideration to beautiful creatures with a will to live. rick rolls are funny, but this video is incredibly important. give it a chance :)
Look I'm not saying anything for or against veganism or the subject of the video in general, but I don't want to look back at this year's r/place in 2026 and say ah yes, vegans. It's just disappointing for everyone who worked so hard to make a funny unrelated to anything political or some bigger picture.
@@yellowwinner1 place is for everyone, it’s a portrait of the internet in all its glory, including the most serious and the most beautifully stupid parts all in one place. in 2026 i will look back at place with joy that i helped advocate that people choose a far less violent lifestyle, while also helping build art for my favorite bands, shows, and memes. activism and amogus can coexist on place :)
@@yellowwinner1 the majority of place was political or nationalistic lol, did you see how many national flags there were? Most people had a cause or group they were working with and defending, and vegans just picked the most important thing to them. It's great to see people being exposed to this kind of thing. It's good to challenge yourself
@@r0bt93 Um, people being political vs nationalistic are two very, very different things. Like you could be a German who like's your country and culture (nationalistic) and not like how the government is ran or by who (political). The only political thing I saw the entire time r/place was going was "F Putin" which didn't even make it to the final picture.
@@chrissyjo420 Yeah that's fair, and I don't mean to say anything against the topic at hand or to even discourage it, just saying what I think a lot of people are thinking especially considering this is kind of a rickroll in itself being that people expected one thing and ended up with another 😅
@@flare8197 I agree with you about this. Any rational thinker understands that the probability is minuscule in this case. I don't disagree with veganism, but I am just being honest.
@Flare the Dragon Slayer In places like Europa, USA and Japan, it will most likely be illegal in the future to kill animals without a good reason. It is just a question of time. Same as it was with human slavery.
the intense stigma against veganism is so immensely unfounded and it’s time our society looked more critically at things like this that should be COMMON SENSE lmao
@@Elrog3 Maybe vegans are toxic because nobody takes suffering seriously. I'm not a vegan but thats like saying Black Lives Matter is toxic because they are forcefully raising awareness of unnecessary suffering. It matters not whether the community is toxic but whether the ideas are true.
@@skullkrusher4418 Before it matters that people don't take suffering seriously, you have to establish that the suffering matters in the first place, and vegans fail at that. They use emotionally driven argumentation. Its all they have and I don't want it. And I'm not a fan of BLM either.
@@Elrog3 But this video does NOT use emotional arguments. It uses consequentialist moral philosophy. Yes, there are vegans that simply show videos of slaughterhouses and factory farms, but most vegans ive met have the approach that Alex has in this video. Unnecessary suffering is unnecessary suffering in all cases. I think everyone agrees that suffering matters. Ive never met a person in my life that thinks that unnecessary suffering with no silver lining is something that doesnt matter. And the truth is, its soooooo easy to show people that what we do to animals is wrong. You simply have to remind them of what they already know, which is that animals feel pain and animals suffer. Nobody denies that today. And THAT is why vegans get frustrated i think. People clearly contradict themselves as soon as they say torturing and eating dogs is wrong. Its a very easy argument to make and i have yet to hear a valid moral justification for it. And thats why i think there is toxicity. Because its so incredibly obvious to vegans that this is wrong, yet 99% of people bend over backwards trying to justify something that even they believe to be wrong.
Well... he stated that he's still not going vegan yet. But the fact that he had philosophically leaned towards veganism makes me eager to see how he will turn out to be.
@@bosoerjadi2838 that requires you to give him that argument, I have asked hundreds of people to give a reasonable one, no one has had one, nearest to any is taste pleasure which is explained perfectly away in this broadcast on moral and ethical grounds, actual taste wise, there are numerous equivalent non meat tasting foods available should you still need them.
@@MrTrevisco Without the intention of getting seduced into actually discussing the arguments pro and contra veganism, let me get into the limits of reasonable arguments thus why I made my comment. For an argument to be considered reasonable it first has to appeal to a shared set of moral and/or ethical values. Such an argument can only lead to a possibly shared standard, a shared normal system, but still based on shared values. Alex is reading philosophy. Questioning and upsetting values is what philosophers do. Not because the values'd be "wrong", but because values are personal axioms, defining reasoning systems. Arguments only operate the same within a shared values set. Alex used a specific set of values and based his argument on that. It's what philosophy students do to exercise: see where reasoning can lead to, given a set of values. Other values, other results with the same reasoning. E.g. In Euclidian geometry the sum of a triangle's corners is always 180 degrees. It assumes that the triangle is in a flat plane. When space is curved, let's say spherical, the sum is between 180 and 270 degrees. Different axiom, same logical operation aka reasoning, different outcome. Should Alex use a different set of values, those who don't share it would not find his arguments reasonable, nor would they agree with his outcome. Regardless the topic.
Just came here to say that this video actually made me consider veganism four months ago, and two and a half months ago upon further research and interest I actually did go vegan. 😊
I have been vegan (whole food plant based) for a year and a half. I have beaten IBS in 2 months and retinal vasculitis in a year… I struggled for years with these. I have now my life and happiness back 😊.
@@relaxo2739 This is great :) before going vegan it can seem daunting but once you're there it's incredibly fullfilling, I've rarely met other vegans who don't feel much happier and healthier having transitioned!
@@Ell.06 start researching the health benefits referencing non industry funded studies and meta analyses and you will no longer have that ludicrous excuse to stand on.
@@MrJSheppy16 I don't need an excuse because vegans are not moral gatekeepers that I need to answer to. I'm not vegan because I have digestional problems and my body just cannot take all those plant products. But then again even if you tell a vegan that your diet is killing you, they don't care because you are just a traitor and a 'carnitard' at the end of the day. There are lots of studies on both sides, yes, but if you just looked at the real world, you would realize that the countries with the longest life expectancies are the ones that consume a lot of meat (Hong Kong, Japan etc.). And most nutritionists back an omnivorous diet for a reason, because it's natural and balanced. Having to eat 10 kilos of food a day on a vegan diet just to be full is not natural.
I came here from r/place, to be honest I was bored and I just kept watching the video and in the end I found this whole conversation to be really intriguing. Definitely worth a watch! I never thought about these things. Thanks to whoever put that QR code on r/place! This channel is a gem!
I applaud you for taking the time to watch it. So many people close their minds down to maintain their world view. Hope it gave you some food for thought!
To support the channel and gain early access to videos, click here: www.patreon.com/cosmicskeptic TIMESTAMPS Introduction: 0:00 Part One - 'Name the trait': 3:02 Part Two - Pain receptivity: 7:58 Part Three - John Rawls: 10:55 Part Four - All animals are equal: 14:42 Conclusion: 20:50
Thanks for a great video Alex. It’s very difficult to argue with the points in this vid, but I will raise a point. It may well be that you and other vegans are right and that it is immoral to consume meat and animal products. However as you raised in your video (drowning sheep/baby) we do and should put humans first and I would argue that due to the fact there is still unfathomable human suffering across the globe, we shouldn’t even begin to discuss animal rights/morality when efforts can be made to discuss/debate/solve this human suffering. A case could even be made to say that it is immoral to discuss animal welfare whilst we humans still suffer in the hundreds of thousands. As I said it may be that veganism is the correct moral stance. But with the status quo as it is, we should be putting efforts towards solving human suffering rather than debating animal concerns.
Hey Alex you really made me think about this one, But in the end i found a problem. and it is not in the moral problem of the right or wrong of killing animals. because your right, it is morally wrong to kill for smal benefits. But... than a other problem arises. if it is therefore morally wrong to keep eating meat. and than i thought back to the story you told about the child in the Utopian city. Is it wrong to let one suffer for the benefit of thousands or millions? i myself wouldn't walk away from the city. i mean there is no point in doing so. if i do, i would make my life worse and the child would still suffer. is it right to make my happiness go the waste for nothing to change? or would i be right to stop it and take the happiness away from thousands for that of one other? I mean if i could take its place i would happily do so. but walking away doesn't solve anything. than again this is not the same as the meat industrie and eating meat. but the out come is the same. what will happen if you walk away? you really think less pigs wil die? A chicken won't be tortured until dead? it won't. I mean i don't like the meat industrie. and if it could be any other way i would change it. but i can't. The child will suffer until the end of times and most humans will won't walk away. and they never will, because that is not how humans work. you may could convince most to lower the suffering of the child and in return lower a little of every humans happiness. but they will never give up utopia. you may try kill animals in les painful way or even beter not at all. but as long as you cant keep supplying mankind with what it wants they wont help you. humans are selfish. people will keep eating meat no matter wat you do. than you would say, well yes but if i convince enough people to not eat meat than less animals die or suffer. wel yes they will. but than again if you lower the demand that will mean less animals will be born. i mean maybe no life is better than one of suffering. but their is enough meat of animals that lived a long life. lets for example take the life of a Bio meat cow. (meaning a organic food that has taking in to mind the environment and animal welfare.) A cow that wil life a life full of joy and also suffering as we all do. but a life none the less. but if you don't eat him, he wil never life that life. and that also go's for most normal meat cows. it may do harm to buy and eat meat of baby animals of poorly treated animals, But it won't if you keep eating bio meat. because yes you would kill a animale for your gain. but if you don't it wont life at all. Is it right to take away a life that otherwise would life until adulthood? is it therefore wrong to eat meat? It is maybe not right, but it is also not wrong to do so. is it morally right that we humans kill for our greed? No, but than again humans don't do what is right. They do what is best for the species and them self's. Can you say your a better person if you don't eat it? maybe, but you won't be worse if you just eat the right kind.
@CosmicSkeptic A problem I have with the video. What I got from this video is not that veganism is the right way to go about this, but a more vegetarian lifestyle is. What you were describing isn't the only tenet of veganism at all. Vegans are people who don't eat or use animal products at all. Can a vegan make a rational argument to why I can't eat an egg? What is the ethical harm of doing that? Perhaps, I am missing something, I can't think of any good argument to why I shouldn't.
@@agnosticatheist7529 Research the life and suffering of a factory-farmed egg-laying chicken, and you'll discover plenty of ethical arguments why supporting that is immoral. :)
I thought it was kind of silly to push this on /r/place but I'm very surprised to see so much positive attention here. Activism DOES make a difference. Don't be afraid to be a voice for the voiceless.
If you don't beleive in god then there is no real arguement for why I should be moral. You can say "we should do this because its moral" yes it might be moral but you haven't made an argument for why I should be moral in the first place. I don't eat other humans because I don't want another human to eat me. But a cow provides no benfit to me other than for me to eat it
Forget your Singer, forget your Camus, forget even your Alex. It was that little girl in the “I Won’t Eat Animals” video that swayed me. She just told her mum, through teary eyes, that she just won’t. She’ll eat anything that’s put on the table, just not animals. She reasoned that animals don’t like being put in the oven. Fair enough. No need for big-brain time little girl. You’re right, god bless your pure heart.
Breathing Oxyjenn - he counted two bad arguments vs veganism and gave two arguments vs cruelty done on animals. No direct argument for veganism at all. If fair if you can’t or refuse to eat animals products, and manage to stay healthy hopefully. The reality is we are not herbivores. Life take life to thrive. It’s not cruel to kill for food. Children of the west are born so privileged, have no idea what survival means in nature. I seen Alex made many arguments. This one is bad. Very disappointed actually. More so it led him to be vegan also. All for the sake of moral high ground.
@@MugenTJ we are herbivores: "Is atherosclerosis a disease affecting all animals or only certain animals? Atherosclerosis affects only herbivores. Dogs, cats, tigers, and lions can be saturated with fat and cholesterol, and atherosclerotic plaques do not develop (1, 2). The only way to produce atherosclerosis in a carnivore is to take out the thyroid gland; then, for some reason, saturated fat and cholesterol have the same effect as in herbivores. Are human beings herbivores, carnivores, or omnivores? Although most of us conduct our lives as omnivores, in that we eat flesh as well as vegetables and fruits, human beings have characteristics of herbivores, not carnivores (2). The appendages of carnivores are claws; those of herbivores are hands or hooves. The teeth of carnivores are sharp; those of herbivores are mainly flat (for grinding). The intestinal tract of carnivores is short (3 times body length); that of herbivores, long (12 times body length). Body cooling of carnivores is done by panting; herbivores, by sweating. Carnivores drink fluids by lapping; herbivores, by sipping. Carnivores produce their own vitamin C, whereas herbivores obtain it from their diet. Thus, humans have characteristics of herbivores, not carnivores." - www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1312295/ You didn't like much biology in school, didn't you?
It’s a dying trend fortunately. Meat tastes best when the animals have lived a happy and free life, something they wouldn’t get in nature surrounded by predators. Fuck factory farming, eat meat
I have to say, I've never actually met a vegan who thought all animals are morally worth the same. They just regard most of them as worth enough not to kill die taste pleasure.
I have. Or at least, I've met vegans who *pretend* that it's what they think. I tend to always hit them with a reductio right away just to try and make them understand that this doesn't strengthen their stance, it weakens it.
Referencing eating meat as "taste pleasure" is exactly that If eating meat is "taste pleasure" then surely lions, dogs, sharks, bears, and ameobas practice this "taste pleasure" as well which would be a foolish belief Animals consume other animals as a matter of survival as do humans now in the 1st world you are provided the *luxury* of being able to supplement the required nutrients with artificial supplements but in the 3rd world or wild humans dont have that *luxury* and as meat has a much higher nutrient content is mandatory for survival and in the wild your only real weapon is your mind because the rest of our abilities are far inferior to most animals
And the ones who don't are using environmental arguments and not ethical ones. Alex is either contradicting himself or player hokey pokey with the definition of "lover".
If you had no love whatsoever for animals, killing them for food wouldn't be an issue. To get to veganism, you have to start from a position of caring about the animals that are killed. Alex's comment seems to say otherwise. His comment is either misleading or just simply wrong. You can say you don't have to want to live in close vicinity with animals to want them not to be killed. I don't see how that is important or relevant at all.
and you don't need to be Vegan, especially if you already have health issues. Veganism doesn't play nice with numerous ailments and associated with plenty of health issues. It is and always has been considered an extreme diet and very prone to health problems.
@@sladechimera2837 That's great, I am glad it works for you, however anecdotal evidence IS NOT evidence. The fact is Veganism is littered with proven problems and doesn't work for a very large number of people and has a very high failure rate. If you understand human Physiology and how we work, it's not hard to understand either. It doesn't play nice with numerous ailments and not everyone can do it. You are not an Herbivore, many plant nutrients don't convert well and it is an extreme diet for a reason. That won't change. You do you, that's fine, I have zero problems with honest Veganism, especially if it works well for you, but don't try to convert others to the cult like so many Vegans do, by using lies, propaganda and manipulative and subjective morality arguments, like so many do now. Just be Vegan, enjoy your diet and don't tell others how to eat. That is my major issue with Veganism and some Vegans is the lies. Even honest, educated, sane Vegans hate that shit, because it makes them look bad, extremist Vegans ruin Veganism and EVERYONE despises that type. Be cool and we can all get along.
I became vegan just three weeks ago and just found this video. Not only do I feel so much more secure in my decision, but your arguments are so much stronger than the ones that actually convinced me in the first place. Oh boy, do I have something to show everyone I know. #Plantbasedforever
This video is freaking incredible, i thougth this things for myself but he makes análisis that i didn't even think of, like how the hability to feel pain can be an standar for morality!, i couldn't find one besides sheer logic, empaty and honesty with yourselfe. I just realize that inteligent wasnt the standar. i congratulate you for your descicion!, i hope your doing good, and if you ever feel to temted by an animal product let me remark that vegan junk food is freaking delicious.
@@tommytarkoved1873 hello!, i can answer this for my part. 1. I personally feel happier in a emotional level, because i'm convinced that i'm doing sonething inherently good at reducing sufferment. This feelings do count i assure you. 2. My level of energy has increased since i change fron vegetarian to Vegan. I don't notice it now because it has been so long but i remember how i was with more desire of moving, running, and make physical activities overall. 3. My health is more stable than ever before. I almost never get sick, and if i do is because of really shitty weather conditions and it doenst last more than a couple of days, my inmune system has gotten stronger. 4. Even tho you asked 3... The 4th one is sex, my libido and my overall sex energy is much more firm and intense. This is because i have 0% fat in my arteries blocking the flood of blood in my veins. I will also add than vegan womans have an easier time getting to orgasm because of the same reason. I hope i was helpfull!.
@@chrisslack51 if I make clean shots on old humans is that ok if they didn't consent to being killed? Also to say that good hunters shoot old animals is laughable. Rarely would a hunter say "deer live to be 6-14 years old so I will let that 5 year old deer go because he hasn't lived a full life yet".
@@chrisslack51 You are still killing a sentient beings that wants to live. Would you say that it is immoral to kill an old person? Then how do you justify killing an animal just because it's old. Hunting is the next most immoral thing after livestock farming.
@@chrisslack51 Better than absolutely horrible is still horrible. Hunting would only be ethical if you were in the wilderness and absolutely needed to hunt for survival.
This should be your most viewed video. You're my favorite TH-camr at the moment, thanks for your time and effort in your content. I hope it is as fulfilling for you as it is for us.
Marie Frenette - my pleasure Let me list the points he discussed: (and my brief comment for each point) 1. We eat animal because human is more intelligent or in some way better - this is a bad argument by non-vegans. We are no better than a lump of coal, in my opinion. So I agree with Skeptic. 2. We feel pain and suffering, other animals less so or don’t suffer at all- also bad argument. We might have more complex nervous system, but surely they want to live as much as we do without any suffering. 3. The current meat industry wouldn’t be permitted if we design society with impartiality - yes, maybe. This is an extension of point #2. Noticed he didn’t expand this into veganism, where no animal products to be consumed. Because human can still hunt or have small scale farming. 4. Animal and human are different but have equal moral worth. - since this is true, as an extension of point #1, we shouldn’t be cruel to animals. This begs the question: is this to be applied to diet? And generally human way of life!? So far I just listed the points he argued for and against, to show that I am more or less understand his position. To summarize, all he shows is the ethical issue against animal cruelty, by citing weak arguments from non-vegans (1) and (2). He ignored the health benefits of eating animal diet. He ignored the fact of nature: we are not herbivores. He ignored ppl kill animals not to be cruel but part of the cycle of life. Most life thrives at the expense of other life forms. We are not even the first to farm for food, ant and termites do it too. Why are we the only animal to be subjected to morality, but not birds or bacteria? Because we understand morality?! Give me a break. Without proper animal diet, I sincerely doubt a human can grow from a baby into adult with a functioning brain to contemplate morality. Yes, he eloquently presented an argument why we should not be cruel to animals, NOT why animals shouldn’t be food! Ppl farm animals for food, not cruelty.
Marie Frenette - not to mention Alex presented a great discussion on why morality is subjective. So to prove veganism on moral ground is moot. He might as well say: I feel bad that I don’t farm for my food, ppl kill in order for me to have a nice steak...i don’t deserve it. Let’s go vegan instead so I don’t feel guilty being part of a privileged group of human.
@@MugenTJ I'm so amused that you think birds are not part of the animal kingdom... so to wich taxonomic rank do birds belong in your opinion? And that we have to eat animal products to be healthy. Or that you need a diet with animal products to grow having proper brain functions... can you refer us to any scientific data supporting all those interesting claims that you make?
@Susage Boy Because they think they're right? If I live my life as if there were a teapot orbiting the moon that I should worship, that doesn't mean there's a teapot orbiting the moon.
This guy making sense is like a massage to the ears. So eloquent and articulate, honest and humble. A true philosopher. I have the highest admiration for this man.
This video was the final push to convince me to go vegan. Thank you so much Alex for helping me make this change in my life. I've been vegan since january 2nd and it feels amazing.
@@juliarasklind9171 very good! I'm still vegan and very happy about it. I feel better about the things i eat knowing i'm not contributing to the bio industry etc. But after a year i notice i do get sadder and feel more helpless when i see so many people still eating animal products than a year ago. I would say that's the only "negative" thing though
Look into the dairy industry as well, if you haven't yet. It's equally if not more abhorrent in many ways, and directly tied to the meat industry (all 'dairy' cows are slaughtered, calves born to 'dairy' cows are either killed shortly after birth or raised for veal or beef)
Tim Doran how are you doing now. also replace the butter with vegan butter there’s utterly no difference. but with the cheese, it’s better you not eat the vegan version anyway, it’s just fat
@@Fuzzawakka good effort buddy, still sticking with it? For me its just over a year, feeling great and loving the food i've discovered, was 80% carnivore before too lol
Also; cattle farms harm the environment more than cars do in the U.S. because of their out of control methane farts (wish I was joking). If we feed them a little seaweed it reduces those emissions by 95%! But unfortunately it hasn't been enforced yet and cows are still farting a BIG hole in the ozone. Feed your head.
Karsa Orlong Are you ignorant? Are you illiterate? Do you converse in echo chambers? Traditional farming leads to grazing of lands, or in layman terms: Land Is Re-usable and Fertile. Where as if you plant only vegetables, no nutrients is being given back to the land, leading to dead soil, further harming the enviroment. Grazed soil helps store co2 from the atmosphere as well as providing nutrients to plant. Before you decide to call someone "stupid", I suggest you take a look at yourself and the cause you are advocating for, because not everyone against it is inherently "stupid". www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5811571/
@@chlorophyllphile I think I found it quite easily, through the video and subtitles settings or something. Maybe in the description. But indeed, I can't find it anymore. Maybe the channel's owner has to enable or permit them ? I don't quite know, sorry :/ can't find any useful info on the web either. edit : Oh, that's a pity. Thanks google indeed...
@Mary Whiterabbit why is that? I unterstand your body needs to adjust to the new amount of fiber, but I didn't have many problems with that Also I ditched milk and eggs in the first week, I don't think that stopping to use animal products altogether will make much of a difference ^^
I'm confused where you said "trying to go vegan". Do or do not, there is no try. Milk and cheese is merely addictive, not necessary, and we don't need eggs either. Going vegan really isn't all that difficult, unless you live in a 3rd world country with really poor supplies available to you. (but you're commenting on the internet, so I doubt it.)
This isn't what you want to hear, but I think you've nailed it. You don't need to be an 'animal lover' to be vegan, you just need to have the faintest shred of respect for life that stops you from killing innocent animals.
Exactly. I'm not an animal lover. I can easily go to the shelter and not have the slightest desire to take another pet home. I just respect animals as living beings, and I don't take any life that I don't need to.
are all animals innocent? And how do you not care about all those innocent plants you hurt? (not trying to troll here just a very provocative way of phrasing in order to get you to a point I would like to try and make )
@@freaki0734 Well we often attribute innocence to those with no understanding of morals, ethics, etc. Animals used by humans haven't done any harm to us, so when vegans say "innocent animals," they mean that these animals have done no harm to people. As for plants, they lack brains, a Central Nervous System, and anything else that neuroscientists know to cause sentience. Some studies show plants to have input/output reactions to certain stimulation, but no study suggests plants have sentience or any ability to feel emotions or pain as we understand it. But, let’s say we discovered that plants actually have something akin to what we understand as “sentience”. In this case, the crucial difference is that we need to eat plants to survive, but we don’t have to eat animals. Furthermore, more plants are used for meat production than for vegetable production because the animals we eat are fed plants, and they can eat way more than us.
I have lived all of my life in a society that eats meat as a normality. One of my childhood memories is visiting an Agricultural college open day, seeing the cows milked, the calfs fed, and then watching as chickens were converted from clucking around into oven ready. It was simply normal. As a teenager I held an injured bullock , that had been hit by a car, as it was shot. I worked on a farm with a large dairy herd, and later had a part time job , milking cows at weekends. In the winter I earned money as a beater, chasing Pheasants towards the guns to be shot, and learned to dispatch an injured bird by breaking its neck . I have shot rabbits, for the pot. And briefly went fishing. In short my life was within a society in which animals were kept, and reared for food. No direct cruelty involved? the farms were small and not factories, small enough that we knew the animals we tended by name. Killing and eating the produce of the farm was normal. Over the years, so many things have changed. I no longer believe that God set us above the animals, farming has moved into factories and the idea of veganism has become better set out. Now at 70 I view the world differently . Perhaps belatedly, I realise the damage that has been done to the world in order to provide my food, there is a good argument for going 'vegetarian' to mitigate that damage. We now realise how many trees have been felled to give me a burger, how many animals have lost their lives to give me a coffee bean. On grounds of self preservation alone there is a strong argument to give up meat eating. For some years I have heard 'meat is murder' shouted by protesters, but their arguments have not touched me. I have long considered that if you have to shout, or insult, or use foul language , you have already lost the argument. This video has made me think. Thank you.
Well, whenever people have to shout, insult, or use foul language, it tends to be coming from a place of emotion. That doesn't mean anything about wether their beliefs are true/false. It just means they are upset. The content of their position, and how well it matches the real world, is where the truth value comes from.
As a vegan I’d agree that a lot of vegan activism is ineffective. If anything it drives people away from the movement because they see vegans as crazy and really different from ‘normal’ people 😂
“My channel isn’t becoming a veganism advocacy channel” that statement aged poorly. Not a complaint by the way, you’ve convinced me many times over to be a vegan and it is very important, just thought that was funny!
@@MrBilld75 Got actual arguments or are random insults all you have to offer? I suspect part of you recognises the heinousness of what you do, and you lash out with pathetic bluster to make yourself feel better. It's okay, they rest of us have your back, we'll make sure veganism is the norm.
@@alekz112 Hahaha, delusional, Veganism will never be the norm. you non-Herbivore failure on Physiology, nutrition and well studied numerous problems with that eating disorder inferior diet, ableist. Sure I have plenty of arguments and have debated Vegans into the ground, as have many of us, amateur, lol. Even your own kind for that matter. Lol. Honest, sane, normal Vegans, are fed up with the cult B.S. and lies too. They are calling you all out on it too. The pseudoscience is epic, lol. Oh here we go with the "you attack Vegans cause of your guilty conscience" argument, bahahaha, like I said, you're a complete amateur. Lol. Don't project your guilt onto me, typical pathetic Vegtard. I feel no more guilt about my species specific proper, superior human diet, than a Lion feels about a Gazelle, lol. Classic, lame textbook Vegan B.S. cultist. Wash, rinse, repeat. Typical logical fallacies of a pathetic amateur Vegoon child.
@@MrBilld75 The only illogical fallacies I see are from you. There is literally nothing but bile in your comment, and therefore nothing worth responding to. You do you.
@@alekz112 Nope, lol. Appeal to emotion is one of the favourite and most manipulative fallacies Vegans use. So is strawmanning and false comparison/equivalence. I know your cult like a book and all the Psychology, amateur, hahaha.
Its making decisions like this that is the purpose of moral philosophy. Without modifying actions when moral reasoning demands it, the whole thing is just an intellectual game. Vegetables are great! Join us!
Yet not taking action is in contradiction with the quote at 0:50 from Albert Camus when he says "The principle that can be established that for a man who does not cheat, what he believes to be true must determine his action"
A QR code from a mural filled with amogus made me question many of my ideas: what a time to be alive. I like meat too much, but I will research more about this topic to answer some questions that I have and maybe change.
I was born and raised in Argentina.... there are a few things we are famous for, and meat is one of them. If I could do it, you can, too. It is only a matter of making the choice. Also... it is a process, and it doesn't have to be overnight. Every time I eat a vegan meal, I think about the fact that I didn't kill an animal for what was on my plate, and the fact that I don't have another being's flesh decomposing inside me. Besides... pooping on a vegan diet is great! lol
I went vegan after watching the video of you and Stephen discussing The Moral Landscape. Thank you so much for opening my eyes to the cruelty I was committing.
I wouldn't say you were individually committing any cruel action. By being a carnivore, you are merely facilitating and advocating the cruelty of modern animal agriculture in capitalism. By going vegan you are denouncing the cruelty by no longer supporting the capitalist animal agriculture market of cruelty. But I don't think it is fair to blame yourself for such things that you have no control of. I've been vegan for almost 3 years now, and it's a great lifestyle. I have so much energy now. :)
@@selfhealing1047 Ah yes, the vegan community, the community that Alex, most of his subscribers, and most of the viewers watching aren't a part of. That one.
Revisiting this video more than a year later, having gone from being a meat-eater to being vegan. This video was a real starting point on my journey to veganism, because of Alex's calm and rational appeal to moral consistency, rather than just trying to win his viewers over by horrifying them with footage of abuse to cute animals. I'm not saying that this strategy always is superior, but it is what got through to me, and, I think, to many others. So thanks for all that you do!
Advenco In some cases you can actually argue it’s the morally correct thing to do. In the absence of natural predators deer have been observed eating all of their food causing a mass die off and local ecological collapse. Therefore due to past mistakes it has become the responsibility of humans to cull deer populations. Should we just leave the dead deer to rot or should we make sure as little as possible goes to waste? This argument goes extra for invasive pest species like wild hogs which really *should* be exterminated to protect native wildlife.
andyrihn1 good argument. We have to preserve the balance in nature somehow. And attempting to reintroduce predatory species could involve too much risk and indeterminable outcomes. So if we were to kill a portion of the deer population for example, what would we do with the corpses? Would it then be morally and ethically justified to eat them? Also, what if you randomly find a dead deer, rabbit, etc. on the road somewhere? Would it be morally and ethically viable to eat it? I mean, it's already dead, so it won't suffer or experience pain.
Advenco What about animals that don’t have any apparent ability to sense pain like oysters? Where do crustaceans and insects come in? Escargot? Where’s the line?
It's inevitable that humanity will look back with disgust at its omnivorous past - in much the same way we regard those who flourished as a result of slavery.
No, we will look forward to our "proper" Omnivorous future and laugh at how "some" thought they were Herbivores, like you fools. That's why you fail at it sooooooooo often, proven in studies.
@@mileshirst593 Hahahahaha, nonsense. Typical of a Vegtard to say. These were not biased survey studies. Just asking random Vegetarians and Vegans about their diet and how many are actually Vegan or quit whatever. 85% quit within the first year, much of the rest within a decade. Over 60% of Vegans claimed they ate meat or animal products and ex-Vegans outnumber current ones 5:1. All separate studies and not biased. Not funded by anyone, lame loser. Nice try, lol.
Vegetarianism and veganism are often trivialized at dinner tables amidst raucous laughter from the majority. Thank you, Alex, for another brilliant and insightful video!😁
@@96quinj Because it is proven to be bad for the human body. It's silly. The fact that it's treated like a religion is even another reason it should be laughed at.
My favorite part is when those meat eaters finally realize that rationalizing their complicity in needless violence just doesn't cut it as a justification for doing so.......and then they *GO VEGAN* Yay!
I've been arguing for veganism for months and now and I still eat loads of meat daily, albeit guiltily! This summer I'm going vegan hopefully but it's gonna be tough
Deacon Couric Not really he took an extreme and compared it to an average. Less than one percent of humans can’t talk. All animals can’t talk like humans.
@@user-qm9ub6vz5e So your basis for rationally justifying the current treatment of animals is that the normal state of the animal's species is to be unable to talk? Well, then we can apply to that to a hypothetical human species. Imagine through some sort of catastrophe we were left with a population where 51% of the human population was unable to speak. Is it now okay to murder the members of this mute subcategory of human?
@Dragunov Ok then. Firstly, It is important to understand that just because an argument is the most convincing it does not have to convince all members of the opposition. Some people may just be inherently psychopathic. In any case, name the trait present/absent in an animal that would allow you to justify treating humans similarly if they possessed/lacked said trait?
@@deaconcouric5037 The trait I believe that distinguishes us philosophically is simply being a part of human society. Placing empathy that you evolved to have towards humans onto animals seems illogical.
And that's actually good, they build healthy soils, builds organic matter that holds on to more carbon and water, eats millions of tonns of vegan byproducts and waste, gives us rendered products without using oil (30-50% of the animal is used to rendering for leather and medicine) gives us petfoods, organic fertilizer and food security etc. www.huffpost.com/entry/meat-save-planet-regenerative-farming_l_5d261f7ae4b0583e482b0192
@@c-lawls9915 I did too. I've enjoyed some of the content before, but this got me to hit that sub button. I guess I wanna keep up with replies and counter arguments. I can't wait for the 'zombie farmer argument' to come out. That's the next level.
Kant's argument loses its relevance when the said cruelty is delegated, so that an enormous amount of people can treat animals cruelly but not do so personally, only by supporting others who do so. More importantly, advocating only indirect moral consideration reinforces rather than contests the mindset underlying animal exploitation.
@David Anewman Jesus was the sun of a low working class father in ancient times. He did not have a choice. Middle class people in modern times have a choice.
@David Anewman Meat is more expensive than kidney beans, brown rice, red lentils, pasta, peas, vegetables, fruits, buckwheat, chickpeas, pinto beans, black beans, white rice, soybeans, black lentils, peanuts, oats, mung beans, coconuts, tofu, tempeh, barley, cous cous, seeds, corn, rye, cannelini beans, wheat and a host of other foods - even Oreos, yep, they're cheap and vegan too. You're going to need a better argument than "being vegan is a privilege". The poorest populations on earth don't even know what meat tastes like because it's so expensive - check your privilege, meat-eater.
'Don't worry, my channel isn't turning into a veganism advocacy channel or anything...' 😄 spoke to soon mate 👍🏻 glad to have you on the right side though!
@@MrBilld75 that’s not a factual claim, that‘s purely your belief which you‘ve got from watching anti vegan videos which generalizes every vegan. Either show some studies or some scientific data which proves your point or be honest enough to admit that you value sensory pleasures over a sentient being.
@@pierrolunar8561 Sure no problem, lol. Most Vegans quit after only a year and much of the rest quit within a decade. www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/most-vegetarians-lapse-after-only-year-180953565/#:~:text=In%20the%20United%20States%2C%20most,meat%2C%20says%20the%20Huffington%20Post. Vegans and iron studies www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6367879/ Vegans and mental illness (and Psychology has written a lot about it, including eating disorders and their relation to Veganism, not just depression and anxiety. www.psypost.org/2020/05/meat-eaters-tend-to-have-better-psychological-health-than-vegetarians-56698 Vegans and Omega-3. www.mja.com.au/journal/2013/199/4/omega-3-polyunsaturated-fatty-acids-and-vegetarian-diets#:~:text=Summary,and%20virtually%20absent%20in%20vegans. And there is plenty more. Vegans failing all over TH-cam and Vegan athletes quitting. Lol. I get that not all Vegans are cultists, and some are "o.k." and those are the ones who usually quit, lol.
Well it would seem that I have now stuck with veganism longer than the guy who made the video that convinced me to go vegan. Still going well and feeling great with excellent blood work results. I will be waiting for his explanation video with great interest.
@@morrobarrythere is a clear ethical reason for veganism that many people fully understand, but don't want to change their habits and therefore willfully deny the ethical issue. Once someone is used to being vegan they generally wish they had done so years ago, it's not difficult when used to it. Just watch more of this channel.
@@robertb6076 Lmaooo yeah sure bro I was strict vegan almost 5 years it almost killed me in the end. Everyone quits and it’s not sustainable. Every athlete would be vegan if it were really in any way beneficial but instead they excel on animal products it’s the plants really that damage us
This is so strange to me. A meat eater taking (positively) about veganism. But I actually love it. This shows that veganism may not be extreme, and isn’t black and white.
Whats extreme about not wanting to contribute to needless suffering and exploitation brother? A lot of vegans become vociferous about their views and become loud because they want to be the voice animals can't produce.
@@pepinillorick5741 Wrong. Logic doesn't get you to veganism. Vegans try to apply a universal goal of sentience protection and fail by Hume's guillotine.
@@Elrog3 hey man, would you be able to explain this a bit. I'm not sure I understand this view on veganism but I am aware of humes law as a naturalistic fallacy.
@William Lillevik He may be morally consistent but that doesn't make it a good case for the majority of the world and Destiny knows this (it only really works for him), considering you would have to be borderline psychopathic to agree with him.
Matt Stewart Yeah thats the point, he has to be a psychopath to actually believe what he is saying and be consistent, thats why he’s such a great advocate for veganism
Meat tastes nice because we've developed ways to make it taste good. So we can do the same with anything, so the fact that "something tastes good" is not valid.
@Sean Francis Waters Lancaster The cow was artificially bred and the fish were farmed. Both were given hormones and supplements. That's what the original post is referring to. Does the taste pleasure you get from your 15 minute meal justify taking the life of someone who didn't want to die?
@@JLydecka the only time i've heard of people on plant based diets ruining their teeth is if they eat an insane amount of fruits everyday and not much else. mostly just long term fruitarians. eating only fruits has absolutely nothing to do with veganism.
Jacob Lydecka I suggest you give up before everyone catches on to your bias. I’ve had my bloods checked, everything is perfect. No problem with my teeth.
@@nerdykeith Well something will go wrong, I was a veggie/vegan for 7 years and for me it was teeth, bone and joint problems. As well as mental issues, just general brain fog. Digestive issues ect, got very depressed and suicidal and got cancer. No joke. Then I saw people improving on eating meat but from a healthy source and as you can imagine I was pretty desparate at this point. Even still, since I was in it for the protection of the animals it took a long time for me looking into it before I did it. But my health was going in such a downward spiral I thought I'd just try eating Mussels. Within the same day my mind got clear and I had bundles of energy. Felt happy. I still had bone and gut issues though so mussels alone wouldn't cut it. Tried some local grass fed beef steak on it's own. And basically that was it... I realised it's more unethical for me to deny myself the better version of me (the healthier one that can actually show up for the world and make it better) than to abstain from eating 1/200 of a cow that's had a decent life up until death. This whole topic is super in depth and nuanced my friend, please be open to uncomfortable truths and refrain from abjectly denying them. If you're in good shape now, then no problem. I am naturally a high energy person and veganism wasn't cutting it for me. I gave it my best. And I'm in my early 20's, was bedridden in my prime, thanks to veganism. And by the way, I started eating meat, organs, butter and eggs, all local grass fed, from the day I was diagnosed with cancer. And guess what, I'm cancer free. So even with all those animal products I ate I know that it still wasn't enough to keep the cancer alive. I feel more alive and happier than I have in many years. That to me is worth the life of a few animals. I'm sure you'd sacrifice 100 animals if it ensured a healthy upbringing for your child. Anyway, I could go on about how actually environmentally if you eat local animal products you're doing more for the planet than a vegan but I recommend looking for that yourself. Don't believe the vegan hype my dude, be skeptical. I know it's almost perfect of a philosophy, if it kept me healthy I'd absolutely stick with it, it's got nothing to do with taste. Only welbeing.
Hey, so, I watching your videos for YEARS now, and I first saw this video about a year ago when it was first posted- and I gotta say I was very opposed to it. I've always lived in a rural area where veganism is considered stupid. Over the last year these ideas have been spinning around in the back of my head, and slowly is just started eating less and less animal products unintentionally. I'm happy to say that a couple weeks ago I finally took the jump and went vegan, and I'm really glad I did. I just wanted to thank you for taking the time to educate others. I can honestly say I never would have considered it without your sterling advocacy!
REDDITORS: I am as surprised as you are. I've been told that some vegans worked together to produce a QR code on r/place that leads to this video. This was nothing to do with me. So, if you feel conned into being here, please don't dislike the video, it's not my fault! If you decided to watch the video, then thanks, and welcome to the channel!
It's a digital canvas hosted on reddit. A vegan group drew a QR code that linked to this video.
R/Place is a reddit where ppl can draw stuff with pixels each person can place one pixel every 5 minutes and there was an QR code and it redirected some ppl to this video
reddit event, vegan activists put up a qr-code to this video to share the message
Someone made a QR code of the TH-cam link
It's a aprils fools on reddit, where you get a huge canvas, and every 5 minutes you get to set the color of one pixel on the canvas.
A group has gone together to make a Qr-code one the canvas that leads to this video
I am 70. I have lived with these notions in the back of my consciousness all my life. I have never done anything to change my habits in all that time because a) I believed the alternative was unhealthy/less healthy and b) there was no pressure for me to do anything about it. More recently I have discovered a) a balanced vegan diet is possibly the most wholesome diet available and b) vegan diets are very much better for the environment. So I flipped. No more meat for me. No more moral double-think.
Kudos to you! It's never too late to do the right thing.
wow! that’s amazing
it's never too late to change :) You are great!!!
It takes a strong mind to change after all that time. It takes a very vivid mind to change that aspect of your life at 70. You sir are more alive that most people of my age, best of lucks.
Ever considered how many animals are killed in factory farming your vegan food?
Thanks for opening my eyes to new angles. It hasn’t been something I’d really thought about until now.
Thank for helping end the Animal Holocoust. All the info on Vegan is on Gary Yourravsky talk The Greatest Speech Ever. It's here on TH-cam. Watch it now.
th-cam.com/video/_K36Zu0pA4U/w-d-xo.html
We've all been there, going along until someone opens our minds to think about it all. For me it was a dvd called Meet your Meat, that was it, went vegan that day lol
Scarlett Richards
Virtually every vegan I know or have met (that would be literally many thousands) were just like you at one time......I'm no exception.
For 26 years of my life I was a carnist (I don't mean that in any pejorative manner) and it wasn't till I was first confronted with the notion of going vegetarian through a conversation with my then girlfriend that I even began to think about animals in a different way from how I was culturally conditioned to think of them.
At first I immediately dismissed the idea out of hand because of the same reason most carnists are taken slightly aback by the idea of themself going vegan.....that reason being the cultural conditioning that we are subjected to since we are infants.
That cultural conditioning relentlessly imbues upon us norms of behavior which are not necessarily morally responsible. It is that same cultural conditioning that in previous generations permitted most people in our culture at one time to believe that it's okay for black people, women, and gays to be seen and treated with less value than those who were responsible for instilling those views into us through various means including laws that didn't afford protections against unjust treatment.
Today, it is a much better situation for blacks, women, and gay people......but not for those innocent individuals whom just happen to have been born a different species of animal than the human variety.
At 26 years of age, struggling to loosen the chains of my own cultural conditioning, I began to challenge that (my) conditioning and the warped perceptions that were a consequence of that cultural conditioning (such as that I can't be healthy without consuming animal products.....and that the purpose of animals is for humans to use and exploit them for whatever person perceived or real (e.g. economic) benefits we can concoct)
. I read, and researched, and listened to others whom had already broken free from the shackles of cultural conditioning (they were vegans).
Going thru that challenge was the greatest awakening I've ever had.....and it led me to one undeniable fact: that there is no moral justification for my complicity in using and harming other animals.
For the past 27 years now I've been a woke vegan. Every year that passes I feel stronger and more clear thinking.
I encourage you to do research and reading and listening to the voices of people who have liberated themselves from the shackles of cultural conditioning and the cult like carnist beliefs that have been ingrained into us from a very young age.
Ask as many questions as you feel you need.......all the answers are already out there.
Thank you in advance for having an open mind and for looking to widen your circle of moral consider to include even the animals bred for profits to be killed and served up on dinner plates.
I prefer to enter society as fried chicken. Yummy.
I think this topic is something that when people start thinking about and looking into, it actually opens people's eyes. Yeah the media likes to scold them, the average person likes to joke about their steak and bacon and vegans generally get all kinds of labels. But that's just what they're being painted as.
If the topic has more of a presence in your life you'll definitely think about it more and question your actions more and more each day. If you actually research the industries, what vegans stand for and all the nutritional stuff, you'll likely find yourself becoming vegan as a result. People like to frame that as the brainwashing but, look at what you've been told all your life... wouldn't you consider THAT the brainwashing? THAT the belief system put in place?
To be honest I was 99% sure I would be rickrolled by this qr code. But this is a pleasant suprise great video 👍
Glad you liked it, it's an important matter. :)
Me too
Same here
Same
Same
You're already a vegan philosophically, all that's left is switching your diet so that it aligns with your morals/logic. Cheers for being intellectually honest.
Diet and lifestyle - veganism isn't exclusively a diet.
@@thomasshukla304 You're right
1999 he’s not he said in his debate with IP that he’s a moral non-cognitivist but then he said in his channel that morality is subjective which made him a moral subjectivist. He didn’t label himself as a moral ninilisn though his meta-ethical stance is quite similar.
Peeve Me the diet that causes the least harm to animals is eating grass fed cows. Animal products are also way more nutritious for humans than plants, so you don’t have as much human suffering either. 😀
Yeziu what is non-cognitivism but agnostic nihilism?
Just stumbled across this video this morning, I wasn't ready for the force of the arguments you made. Even without any images of suffering, with only reasoning, I cried a little by the end. You leave no excuse for me to continue benefiting and encouraging the suffering. Thank you for opening my eyes and mind.
Thank you for a being an honest human. You won't regret it. My only word of advice is be 100% sure you are eating enough calories. It really helps to use chronometer and weigh your foods for the first month or so. Also black and french green lentils are a fantastic dietary staple for ensuring you consume enough protein if you are worried about that sort of thing.
Welcome to the V-gang!
awesome Cameron! how is your Vegan Journey going? ☺
You are a weak minded individual. Why on earth would you cry over this? An animal's life is objectively worth less than a human's craving of meat. Don't drag moral philosophy into how people choose to sustain themselves. Otherwise you're no better than the herbivorous lesser beings that call themselves vegan. Grow up.
@@harukasatou1359 An entire life of a sentient being's suffering is worth less than a few minutes of pleasure?
Imma press X to doubt that man.
And if we shouldn't drag moral philosophy into food, why should we drag it into anything else?
If you use this to discredit vegan arguments despite not needing to consume animal products, shouldn't you say "don't drag moral philosophy into how people choose to have fun" when someone kicks dogs for fun, despite not needing to do so?
I remember taking a nap on the grass at my college and being annoyed at some vegan on a megaphone nearby...after a while of being forced to listen I thought “damn it, he’s right.” But my justification for continuing to eat meat/LIVE via cheese was that ‘striving to be morally perfect is an unrealistic goal’ or something like that...
About 7 months later I aligned my actions with my moral values, and I like myself better for it. (Plus, my severe acne disappeared!!)
Lina C., well good for you
Birbs4Life - Critical Ops thx
Lina C., no problem :)
Love this Lina 👍 same on the acne front - that certainly was a nice side effect!
If dropping meat will cause my acne to fuck off then sign me up
Bro you just got the biggest advertisement for your channel. It’s a reddit thing where everyone places pixels and makes images. Some one put a QR code and it happens to link to this video!
One of the best, if not the best, video I’ve seen on the ethics of veganism, made by a meat-eater. I did not expect that. Thank you and I really hope you decide to act accordingly.
t. vegan
Watch Carneval's response, and you'll see how poor this video actually is.
Sy_ Maybe I’ll watch that, out of curiosity, but I don’t think anyone needs a response video to tell them what they need to think about this one. Ethics and logic are solid, or they’re not. I think this right here is super solid. In any case, I’ll come back here with my thoughts after I’ve had the chance to watch the response you mention.
@@birKOoOo Ethics and logic is not solid, that's what I'm saying. See you around.
Sy_ After watching it I can only say that you and I definitely have a different idea of what a “solid” argument is. Thanks for your suggestion though.
I was about to sleep but Alex is a better priority
But can you make an objective case for that ;?
We all agree that CosmicSkeptic is a priority, therefore, even though it fundamentally is subjective, we can treat it as an objective fact that we ought to set the priority to be this channel over sleep
@@evelynindge7581 Nah man you're appealing to popularity. Still, I also put CosmicSkeptic as a priority ;)
@@Aperfull Alex made that point in his atheistic moral subjectivity video😂 (correct me if that's a strawman) as a caveat to his main argument, that's what I've been using to justify moral actions since 😂
Have a good sleep.
"I'll ask you another question. If you were on a desert island with two humans, one is elderly, frail and disabled, the other youthful, intelligent and talented, and you were about to starve, which person would you eat?" - You're fine Alex, I won't eat you ;)
DAMN THIS WAS SAVAGE, also you should really talk to ‘Ask Yourself’ about veganism
Aw man
Lol nice. 😂
Neither cause cannibalism is cannibalism regardless of hunger
How did u comment this 14 hours ago?
01:10 “Don't worry, my channel is not turning into a veganism advocacy channel or anything”.
Narrator: It indeed was turning into a vegan advocacy channel.
Good to see you here lmao
now only if it would stay that way :3
Not anymore unfortunatey
_Soytheist making this comment_
Narrator: It indeed turns out that after all, this channel was not turning into a veganism advocacy channel
Thank you so much Alex. I feel like the philosophy of animal rights and veganism is hugely underrepresented in the intellectual/philosophical communities even though it is ( as you point out yourself ) probably one of the most important topics.
I agree! It's nice to see! Hiith made a video on veganism a few weeks ago too :) th-cam.com/video/fe9s9SoLk8w/w-d-xo.html
That's because the majority of people don't give a shit about ethics and don't care about the suffering of others, so making ethical appeals is simply not broadly effective at converting people. So influential vegans tend to focus on appeals to health and the environment, because those arguments appeal to the selfishness in others. People are inherently selfish and want to do things that better their own lives. So if you tell someone that by going vegan they can lose weight and live longer it's going to be more effective in changing their mind.
@Atheist first! Happy Heathen! triggered atheist neckbeard detected "EVERYTHING THAT ISNT HUMAN HAS NO VALUE OR WORTH LOL DUMB VEGANS" wow bro such deep much insight
@Atheist first! Happy Heathen! Who said non-human animals deserve the right to vote ? Humans grant rights depending on the relevant traits of an individual. A pig doesn't understand the concept of voting or politics, therefore it doesn't deserve the right to vote. The same goes for a human child or a dog. What a human child and a pig (and a dog) have in common is the ability to feel pain & suffer as well as the will to live. Therefore those individuals deserve the right to live and bodily integrity. Did you understand the concept of " name the trait" ?
In the Netherlands we have a political party that is called partij voor de dieren (party of the animals).
Alex. I believe this is one of the most important and impactfull videos you have ever made. Thank you. As I am sure many others have offered to do, I would be extremely happy to help you in your practical journey towards a vegan diet. Much love bro! Keep being a voice for reason, logic and morals, we need more of you out there
As someone who went vegan at 10, and alone, I know it is daunting but I had educated myself and I just had to put it into action.
You are a fucking Boss!, what a character you must have to take that descicion at that age. I hope i would have take that one sooner, cheers to you.
I went vegan alone around the same age, I’m glad there are more of us then just me, and I hope we can continue to show meat eaters that the issue at hand is so simple, children can figure it out👍❤️
This really interests me. How did your families react? Were they supportive or was it a lot of resistance?
@@Ermude10 I got lucky when I went vegan my whole family did as well. Was a really nice transition for me.
If you don't beleive in god then there is no real arguement for why I should be moral. You can say "we should do this because its moral" yes it might be moral but you haven't made an argument for why I should be moral in the first place. I don't eat other humans because I don't want another human to eat me. But a cow provides no benfit to me other than for me to eat it
Those are very strong and sound arguments for veganism. I bet this guy is going to have a great career as vegan activist, especially after coining such a great quote: "Extraordinary suffering requires extraordinary justification"
When I read Alex' statement, for a second I hoped it was April 1st. I'm really interested in the details of his change of mind. At the same time I hope he won't spread false information about a plant based diet. He was so passionately engaged in this topic, speaking out for animals very often with a lot of conviction. I really believe him, that he meant it. Still it's sad, he had trouble feeling healthy. Alex does think deeply about things and it's open to change his mind. Maybe some day he will change it again.
@@squeegybeckenheim2489 I genuinely checked if it was April 1st.
“Great career as a vegan activist”
“I’m a vegan” (Cosmic Sceptic).
“I love animals” (Cosmic Sceptic).
“But I’m not sure if I’d nuke all the animals if I left Earth” (Cosmic Sceptic)
“Religion is bizaaaaarre” (Cosmic Sceptic)
Oh the irony is killing me!! He would definitely have a very lucrative, “great career” as a British politician!! The irony is that we, that is the British people have to deal with this “bizaaaarre” posh British accent from conniving, deceitful politicians on a daily basis! So this accent is not impressive or convincing to us at all because we have a lot of history with people from this elitist background who pick up this posh accent when rubbing shoulders with the rich and powerful in the South of England!!
Being British, I have to listen to the “bizaaaarre” members of parliament noise and the “bizaaaarre” noise from the House of Lords in England. What I find most “bizaaaarre” is why in the world anyone would trust what someone is saying is intelligent, genuine and trustworthy just because they have this posh “amiable” English accent!!
The double irony and what is truly “bizaaaaarre” is that Cosmic Sceptic has now totally deserted the thousands of vegan fans who built up his patreon subscription as “Cosmic Sceptic” became so “sceptical” about his own fans vegan lifestyles that he is now actually not even a “vegan” anymore!! Which basically makes him a Judas in the eyes of the vegan anti natalist community!! What a surprise!! You couldn’t write this stuff!!
“Extraordinary suffering requires extraordinary justification”
I look forward to hearing Cosmic Sceptics “extraordinary justification” for shunning veganism. I’m sure he’ll manage it as he’s a very “extraordinarily” experienced propagandist, particularly when it comes to sharing anti religious Soviet hate propaganda left over from the Cold War!!
Source/Reference: th-cam.com/video/4WaIlxKan0g/w-d-xo.html
So just don't eat meat from processed meat factories. And just eat the eggs from your backyard. It's not hard to be ethical call not being vegan. You guys have a black & white view of reality..
You can’t unsee the truth. You are where I was 3 years today. Been vegan 3 years now.
same here. I had so many questions, so many arguments I was taught my whole life and felt like veganism was so flawed and not doable. I became vegan on my 19th birthday, and its been 2.5 years since that day.
Aye I am also 3 years as of this month lol
3 years as well here 💯
6.5 years vegan myself 💓
Almost nine years here.
Me and my girlfriend became vegan because of you. What a great man. Can't wait to see how much more you will influence our world for the better in the coming years
Veganism isn't an influence for the better. Morality is subjective and some people are going to have different opinions. Veganism turns people toxic towards eachother. If you don't want to personally harm animals, fine. Just please don't act all high and mighty.
@@Elrog3 I guess that's your opinion? I never acted all high and mighty. I think a lot of people assume vegans do that. And about morality, I disagree about it being subjective. Kinda.
@@fbarnea I didn't meant that your comment had that attitude. That last sentence was just preemptive.
@@Elrog3 that's ok, I didn't refer to the comment either. I mean in general, when it comes to veganism I don't act all high and mighty. I've been vegan for a fraction of my life so it would be weird to have that attitude. I think the typical toxic vegan who wants to convert everyone is nothing more than a stereotype. I will admit sometimes I get a bit frustrated and angry that we sit here and discuss philosophically while billions of sentient beings are being tortured and murdered. But hey, can't really do much about it.
@@fbarnea did you know plants can feel pain? It’s a different system, but pain equal to that of any Animal. There are even studies that suggest that they communicate it to each other. Does that mean you should stop eating all together? After all, why is your life worth more than corn, or broccoli. It is not worth more than for any reason than they are not human and not you. This Alex’s entire argument rests on the fact that animals are treated cruelly, and while it is possible, it is not a prerequisite. Cows are killed painlessly (spike through the skull) and I have no idea how chickens are killed. The point is, morals and survival have about as much to do with each other as practicality and questioning wether humans exist. Destroy the meat industry, destroy hundreds of human lives.
Going vegan was one of the best decisions I've made, and one of the most unexpected.
Kay Lee .........100% agree.......healthy VEGAN here for more than 27 years
@@LouisGedo that's nice to hear, I'm not vegan yet.
It's mainly because I was afraid of the health costs.
But I did give up beef along with never eating pork due to my Islamic upbringing.
I eat halal even though I'm atheist
@@AliJr_MetalGames_MetalGuitar
Eating healthy whole foods plant based is actually not necessary expense. Some of the poorest people on the planet eat no meat and I know people who are on public assistance (meaning they subsist on very little money) who are entirely plant based.
If you want to eat Beyond Burgers every day, then yes, that will be expensive. But a simple whole foods plant based diet can be relatively inexpensive.
@@LouisGedo thanks for the ideas, I'm gonna be in a band soon so I'll need to minimize.
You might have just helped me with that, I'm 17.
@@AliJr_MetalGames_MetalGuitar Hey I'm an Ex muslim and I'm 17 too.
I can only eat halal because if I don't, it might raise suspicion that I am not a Muslim anymore.
Apostate execution is supported by the majority of my country.
Together with the all arguments against veganism ted talk by Ed Winters, this video made me go vegan. This is a good explanation of the ethical arguments without using any animal footage. No gore, no emotional plays, just the philosophical moral arguments. Anybody willing to introspect to himself and honest to himself will (I think) come to the same conclusion.
Watch this, think about it. Try and apply the same scrutiny you would apply to this to your own ideas. Is it worth it? Is it really worth it? Be honest, go vegan.
this is literally what happened to me. I was the biggest meat eating edgelord until I watched a couple of these videos and actually forced myself to sit and seriously think about it for like 10 minutes. Now I've been vegan for just over a year
@@naitsirhc2065 Flippin poggers!
I've watched it, thought about it and concluded I really don't care. I'm not being edgy, just honest. Perhaps I'm in the state of cognitive dissonance because I also smoke despite knowing it's bad for me. I love animals but also feel zero guilt about eating them.
My point is, humans aren't Vulkans from Star Trek, purely rational, led by logic and sound arguments.
I think emotional appeal would actually convince way more people than moral philosophy.
Btw, the strongest argument in my opinion, is the environmental one.
@@alexlarsen6413 The evironmental argument would not stop people from eating meat, but just reduce their consumption.
@@alexlarsen6413 Do as you please but don't ever contradict yourself like that, you don't love animals.. period
I can't even begin to imagine the amount of potential this guy would have as an animal activist.
Mikkel Sørensen yes he would be amazing he is very intelligent and has a very clear voice
Mikkel Sørensen - not if I’m on the opposite side. Actually scratch that, he won’t have any impact because granted philosophy is his strong suit, he seems to not understand biology and economics, and natural way of the universe. Or simply ignore them to support a childish ideology.
He is not going to be an animal activist but at least he is honest and rational about it
Jeremy Dang - hopefully rational enough to realize how bad the idea is outside of philosophy
@@MugenTJ it's not bad , the argument for practicality has been refuted time and time again. There is no valid reason to go vegan other than taste and economic reasons . But even then if veganism become popular plant based food will get cheaper
finally, a non bias philosophical discussion on veganism from a non vegan! you done an awesome job covering the ethics and morality of veganism, love it!!!!! you dont need anybody else to convince you, you know it already. listen to your heart aswell brother.
That seems pretty biased.
@@Elrog3 how the fuck is this biased. I like how you go in other threads and say you don't have time to respond, but here you are in this thread starting a new conversations...
We get it, you are a psychopath that doesn't understand how empathy works and you have your routine of mental gymnastics to go with it...
Elrog3 tool
A four word comment sure took a lot of my time. Go play ad hominem with someone who cares.
@@Elrog3 Why did you dodge Bazileia 's comment? I think you are conflicted and know your position is unjustifiable and indefensible in our 1st world context.
I was raised by hippies I have never eaten meat and build muscle You can build and maintain muscle mass on a meat-free diet
Right on.🤘🏻
Do it everyday
i think it's wrong your parents choose for you, in being a vegan or not, you may have ended up being one anyway and that's fine but for them to decide for you is just wrong to me
@@Pumpkinbeam He didn't say his parents forced him but just raised him that way. When your a parent you have to raise a child one way or another, you could say the same about a parent who raises their children to eat meat.
@@JordanDinstrumentals yes but humans are omnivores it's in our biology and the way i body functions and a child doesn't have to eat meat if it is given to them, it is much harder for a child to obtain meat when it isn't given to them than it is for them to not eat the meat if it is given to them. you can raise your child to eat broccoli but they might not like it so they won't eat it even though it is given to them same could be said for meat. it is better to give them the option then to choose for them
people disappointed this isn’t a rickroll as if us vegans don’t live every day in perpetual disappointment that the world refuses to give moral consideration to beautiful creatures with a will to live.
rick rolls are funny, but this video is incredibly important. give it a chance :)
Look I'm not saying anything for or against veganism or the subject of the video in general, but I don't want to look back at this year's r/place in 2026 and say ah yes, vegans. It's just disappointing for everyone who worked so hard to make a funny unrelated to anything political or some bigger picture.
@@yellowwinner1 place is for everyone, it’s a portrait of the internet in all its glory, including the most serious and the most beautifully stupid parts all in one place. in 2026 i will look back at place with joy that i helped advocate that people choose a far less violent lifestyle, while also helping build art for my favorite bands, shows, and memes. activism and amogus can coexist on place :)
@@yellowwinner1 the majority of place was political or nationalistic lol, did you see how many national flags there were? Most people had a cause or group they were working with and defending, and vegans just picked the most important thing to them. It's great to see people being exposed to this kind of thing. It's good to challenge yourself
@@r0bt93 Um, people being political vs nationalistic are two very, very different things. Like you could be a German who like's your country and culture (nationalistic) and not like how the government is ran or by who (political). The only political thing I saw the entire time r/place was going was "F Putin" which didn't even make it to the final picture.
@@chrissyjo420 Yeah that's fair, and I don't mean to say anything against the topic at hand or to even discourage it, just saying what I think a lot of people are thinking especially considering this is kind of a rickroll in itself being that people expected one thing and ended up with another 😅
I've been vegetarian for 6 years now and this video was the final push I needed to make me go vegan. Thank you.
I am very happy that you joined us. Hope everybody else will do the same.
@@happygimp0 Thank you. I'm happy about it too
@@happygimp0 not gonna happen lol
@@flare8197 I agree with you about this. Any rational thinker understands that the probability is minuscule in this case. I don't disagree with veganism, but I am just being honest.
@Flare the Dragon Slayer
In places like Europa, USA and Japan, it will most likely be illegal in the future to kill animals without a good reason. It is just a question of time.
Same as it was with human slavery.
the intense stigma against veganism is so immensely unfounded and it’s time our society looked more critically at things like this that should be COMMON SENSE lmao
The stigma around veganism is deserved. Its a toxic community.
Elrog3 The loud ones are (often) toxic. You don’t hear the quiet ones, who probably form the majority. Just some food for thought, so to speak.
@@Elrog3 Maybe vegans are toxic because nobody takes suffering seriously. I'm not a vegan but thats like saying Black Lives Matter is toxic because they are forcefully raising awareness of unnecessary suffering. It matters not whether the community is toxic but whether the ideas are true.
@@skullkrusher4418 Before it matters that people don't take suffering seriously, you have to establish that the suffering matters in the first place, and vegans fail at that. They use emotionally driven argumentation. Its all they have and I don't want it. And I'm not a fan of BLM either.
@@Elrog3 But this video does NOT use emotional arguments. It uses consequentialist moral philosophy. Yes, there are vegans that simply show videos of slaughterhouses and factory farms, but most vegans ive met have the approach that Alex has in this video. Unnecessary suffering is unnecessary suffering in all cases. I think everyone agrees that suffering matters. Ive never met a person in my life that thinks that unnecessary suffering with no silver lining is something that doesnt matter. And the truth is, its soooooo easy to show people that what we do to animals is wrong. You simply have to remind them of what they already know, which is that animals feel pain and animals suffer. Nobody denies that today. And THAT is why vegans get frustrated i think. People clearly contradict themselves as soon as they say torturing and eating dogs is wrong. Its a very easy argument to make and i have yet to hear a valid moral justification for it. And thats why i think there is toxicity. Because its so incredibly obvious to vegans that this is wrong, yet 99% of people bend over backwards trying to justify something that even they believe to be wrong.
From a guy who's been eating a vegan diet for 5 years, I think you did an excellent job!
five year old?
@@user-rj2ms3pk8i sure 😉
@@user-rj2ms3pk8i Veganism preserves youthfulness
Your health is being destroyed. sad
@@KSham-hr7yg my loss, I guess 🤭😏
If you're on the fence on veganism I suggest watching the "Dominion" documentary on TH-cam.
Truly harrowing and grotesque shit.
@@fanwee5048 truth matters
I’d also recommend cowspiracy, what the health and game changers
Cring
@@wyliehjwasn't What the Health kind of a scam
Glad to see veganism being treated as a real philosophical issue, rather than a psycho SJW one👍
'psycho SJW' lol😁
There are many vegan TH-camrs who treat Veganism as a philosophical issue, because that's what it is.
@@cloudoftime I think only the anti-vegans degrade veganism into something "SJW" or whatever.
@@clare2385 Right. I was just replying to the statement "it's nice to see", as that implies that it was lacking in some way. But I see what you mean.
for some, "psycho SJW" would be considered redundant
As a vegan and long time fan of your channel, thank you man. Just thank you.
Me too.
Well... he stated that he's still not going vegan yet. But the fact that he had philosophically leaned towards veganism makes me eager to see how he will turn out to be.
Don't rejoice too much too soon. I'm not putting it beyond him to make an equally compelling case against veganism in his next video.
@@bosoerjadi2838 that requires you to give him that argument, I have asked hundreds of people to give a reasonable one, no one has had one, nearest to any is taste pleasure which is explained perfectly away in this broadcast on moral and ethical grounds, actual taste wise, there are numerous equivalent non meat tasting foods available should you still need them.
@@MrTrevisco Without the intention of getting seduced into actually discussing the arguments pro and contra veganism, let me get into the limits of reasonable arguments thus why I made my comment.
For an argument to be considered reasonable it first has to appeal to a shared set of moral and/or ethical values. Such an argument can only lead to a possibly shared standard, a shared normal system, but still based on shared values.
Alex is reading philosophy. Questioning and upsetting values is what philosophers do. Not because the values'd be "wrong", but because values are personal axioms, defining reasoning systems. Arguments only operate the same within a shared values set. Alex used a specific set of values and based his argument on that. It's what philosophy students do to exercise: see where reasoning can lead to, given a set of values. Other values, other results with the same reasoning.
E.g. In Euclidian geometry the sum of a triangle's corners is always 180 degrees. It assumes that the triangle is in a flat plane. When space is curved, let's say spherical, the sum is between 180 and 270 degrees.
Different axiom, same logical operation aka reasoning, different outcome.
Should Alex use a different set of values, those who don't share it would not find his arguments reasonable, nor would they agree with his outcome. Regardless the topic.
Just came here to say that this video actually made me consider veganism four months ago, and two and a half months ago upon further research and interest I actually did go vegan. 😊
Sweet :-)
@@mello.b3373 get the fuck outta here 😂😂
IM PROUF OF YOU
@@spongebobsquarepants3851 awww thank you very much 😊
Congratulations on making a meaningful change!
I'm already vegan but I just wanted to say this is a really solid video laying out arguments for veganism.
Exactly what I came here to say!
Me too and I really do wonder what his stance on it is now, once you seriously consider veganism it is often an inevitable path
Me too and I really do wonder what his stance on it is now, once you seriously consider veganism it is often an inevitable path
I have been vegan (whole food plant based) for a year and a half. I have beaten IBS in 2 months and retinal vasculitis in a year… I struggled for years with these. I have now my life and happiness back 😊.
@@relaxo2739 This is great :) before going vegan it can seem daunting but once you're there it's incredibly fullfilling, I've rarely met other vegans who don't feel much happier and healthier having transitioned!
I never thought I'd go vegan, but I'm now considering it.
Serendipitous Illicit no regrets, I’ve been vegan for 10 months now. Try watching Earthlings or dominion. Also Veganuary is a free 21 day challenge
It's how it starts, you think nah I'll never do that, hmm maybe I will, ok let's try it out, yeah this is the right thing to do
Vegan for 9 years here. Not perfect, but fitter than most in my circle, and older than most of them. Stick to science and be well.
Make sure you plan it well.
Why?
Whoa, can't talk you out of that. Totally solid reasoning for going vegan. I'm in!
Levi Brasga you won’t regret it!!!
You'll regret it when you're malnourished
@@Ell.06 start researching the health benefits referencing non industry funded studies and meta analyses and you will no longer have that ludicrous excuse to stand on.
@@Ell.06 found the carnitard.
@@MrJSheppy16 I don't need an excuse because vegans are not moral gatekeepers that I need to answer to. I'm not vegan because I have digestional problems and my body just cannot take all those plant products. But then again even if you tell a vegan that your diet is killing you, they don't care because you are just a traitor and a 'carnitard' at the end of the day. There are lots of studies on both sides, yes, but if you just looked at the real world, you would realize that the countries with the longest life expectancies are the ones that consume a lot of meat (Hong Kong, Japan etc.). And most nutritionists back an omnivorous diet for a reason, because it's natural and balanced. Having to eat 10 kilos of food a day on a vegan diet just to be full is not natural.
I came here from r/place, to be honest I was bored and I just kept watching the video and in the end I found this whole conversation to be really intriguing. Definitely worth a watch! I never thought about these things. Thanks to whoever put that QR code on r/place! This channel is a gem!
He has some amazing videos on this channel. If you're interested in philosophy, he's a good youtuber to watch
Glad you found it intriguing, I hope you consider going vegan. It's not as hard as it seems! :)
I applaud you for taking the time to watch it. So many people close their minds down to maintain their world view. Hope it gave you some food for thought!
You’re a gem, you’re very open minded which is a rare quality🤝
I thought it was a rick roll xd
You can't get rickrolled on purpose. You have to get to a video you didn't expect, and this here is a fantastic one to watch on top.
Do you agree with the points made in the video?
Yes!!
From r/place, haven't looked at veganism like that. will do more research. reddit is crazy
Let's goo, wish you all the best!
💪💪💪
Massive W thanks for checking the video out :)
Img onna eat meat until I die u missed out in so much food
To support the channel and gain early access to videos, click here: www.patreon.com/cosmicskeptic
TIMESTAMPS
Introduction: 0:00
Part One - 'Name the trait': 3:02
Part Two - Pain receptivity: 7:58
Part Three - John Rawls: 10:55
Part Four - All animals are equal: 14:42
Conclusion: 20:50
This is quite possibly the greatest video of 2019 IMHO!!!
Thanks for a great video Alex.
It’s very difficult to argue with the points in this vid, but I will raise a point.
It may well be that you and other vegans are right and that it is immoral to consume meat and animal products.
However as you raised in your video (drowning sheep/baby) we do and should put humans first and I would argue that due to the fact there is still unfathomable human suffering across the globe, we shouldn’t even begin to discuss animal rights/morality when efforts can be made to discuss/debate/solve this human suffering. A case could even be made to say that it is immoral to discuss animal welfare whilst we humans still suffer in the hundreds of thousands.
As I said it may be that veganism is the correct moral stance. But with the status quo as it is, we should be putting efforts towards solving human suffering rather than debating animal concerns.
Hey Alex you really made me think about this one, But in the end i found a problem. and it is not in the moral problem of the right or wrong of killing animals. because your right, it is morally wrong to kill for smal benefits.
But... than a other problem arises. if it is therefore morally wrong to keep eating meat. and than i thought back to the story you told about the child in the Utopian city. Is it wrong to let one suffer for the benefit of thousands or millions? i myself wouldn't walk away from the city. i mean there is no point in doing so. if i do, i would make my life worse and the child would still suffer. is it right to make my happiness go the waste for nothing to change? or would i be right to stop it and take the happiness away from thousands for that of one other? I mean if i could take its place i would happily do so. but walking away doesn't solve anything.
than again this is not the same as the meat industrie and eating meat. but the out come is the same. what will happen if you walk away? you really think less pigs wil die? A chicken won't be tortured until dead? it won't. I mean i don't like the meat industrie. and if it could be any other way i would change it. but i can't.
The child will suffer until the end of times and most humans will won't walk away. and they never will, because that is not how humans work. you may could convince most to lower the suffering of the child and in return lower a little of every humans happiness. but they will never give up utopia.
you may try kill animals in les painful way or even beter not at all. but as long as you cant keep supplying mankind with what it wants they wont help you. humans are selfish. people will keep eating meat no matter wat you do.
than you would say, well yes but if i convince enough people to not eat meat than less animals die or suffer. wel yes they will. but than again if you lower the demand that will mean less animals will be born. i mean maybe no life is better than one of suffering. but their is enough meat of animals that lived a long life.
lets for example take the life of a Bio meat cow. (meaning a organic food that has taking in to mind the environment and animal welfare.) A cow that wil life a life full of joy and also suffering as we all do. but a life none the less. but if you don't eat him, he wil never life that life. and that also go's for most normal meat cows.
it may do harm to buy and eat meat of baby animals of poorly treated animals, But it won't if you keep eating bio meat. because yes you would kill a animale for your gain. but if you don't it wont life at all. Is it right to take away a life that otherwise would life until adulthood?
is it therefore wrong to eat meat? It is maybe not right, but it is also not wrong to do so.
is it morally right that we humans kill for our greed?
No, but than again humans don't do what is right. They do what is best for the species and them self's.
Can you say your a better person if you don't eat it? maybe, but you won't be worse if you just eat the right kind.
@CosmicSkeptic A problem I have with the video. What I got from this video is not that veganism is the right way to go about this, but a more vegetarian lifestyle is. What you were describing isn't the only tenet of veganism at all. Vegans are people who don't eat or use animal products at all.
Can a vegan make a rational argument to why I can't eat an egg? What is the ethical harm of doing that?
Perhaps, I am missing something, I can't think of any good argument to why I shouldn't.
@@agnosticatheist7529 Research the life and suffering of a factory-farmed egg-laying chicken, and you'll discover plenty of ethical arguments why supporting that is immoral. :)
Thank you for being so rational about this. Love the video. Vegan 17 years here !!
Awesome!.........healthy VEGAN here for more than 27 years
17? IM ONLY 17
Shoutout to /r/vegan for promoting animal welfare and the expanding circle
I thought it was kind of silly to push this on /r/place but I'm very surprised to see so much positive attention here. Activism DOES make a difference. Don't be afraid to be a voice for the voiceless.
If you don't beleive in god then there is no real arguement for why I should be moral. You can say "we should do this because its moral" yes it might be moral but you haven't made an argument for why I should be moral in the first place. I don't eat other humans because I don't want another human to eat me. But a cow provides no benfit to me other than for me to eat it
I do believe in god @@Hjh826
Forget your Singer, forget your Camus, forget even your Alex. It was that little girl in the “I Won’t Eat Animals” video that swayed me. She just told her mum, through teary eyes, that she just won’t. She’ll eat anything that’s put on the table, just not animals. She reasoned that animals don’t like being put in the oven. Fair enough. No need for big-brain time little girl. You’re right, god bless your pure heart.
I completely agree. It really is that simple
This was brilliant Alex!! As a vegan I really appreciate it. You really articulated all of the main arguments for veganism very well.
Breathing Oxyjenn - he counted two bad arguments vs veganism and gave two arguments vs cruelty done on animals. No direct argument for veganism at all.
If fair if you can’t or refuse to eat animals products, and manage to stay healthy hopefully. The reality is we are not herbivores. Life take life to thrive. It’s not cruel to kill for food. Children of the west are born so privileged, have no idea what survival means in nature.
I seen Alex made many arguments. This one is bad. Very disappointed actually. More so it led him to be vegan also. All for the sake of moral high ground.
@@MugenTJ we are herbivores:
"Is atherosclerosis a disease affecting all animals or only certain animals?
Atherosclerosis affects only herbivores. Dogs, cats, tigers, and lions can be saturated with fat and cholesterol, and atherosclerotic plaques do not develop (1, 2). The only way to produce atherosclerosis in a carnivore is to take out the thyroid gland; then, for some reason, saturated fat and cholesterol have the same effect as in herbivores.
Are human beings herbivores, carnivores, or omnivores?
Although most of us conduct our lives as omnivores, in that we eat flesh as well as vegetables and fruits, human beings have characteristics of herbivores, not carnivores (2). The appendages of carnivores are claws; those of herbivores are hands or hooves. The teeth of carnivores are sharp; those of herbivores are mainly flat (for grinding). The intestinal tract of carnivores is short (3 times body length); that of herbivores, long (12 times body length). Body cooling of carnivores is done by panting; herbivores, by sweating. Carnivores drink fluids by lapping; herbivores, by sipping. Carnivores produce their own vitamin C, whereas herbivores obtain it from their diet. Thus, humans have characteristics of herbivores, not carnivores." - www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1312295/
You didn't like much biology in school, didn't you?
i haaaaate how people see veganism as a trend, its just not paying to torture, that’s it.
you still pay for both human and non-human torture with your taxes.
Emilia M good point now ill go kill an innocent animal
I'm a vegan, fren. I'm just saying that both of us still pay for meat that other people buy.
Emilia M so what are you saying i should do?
It’s a dying trend fortunately. Meat tastes best when the animals have lived a happy and free life, something they wouldn’t get in nature surrounded by predators. Fuck factory farming, eat meat
I scaned a QR code on r/place and it got me here.
I have to say, I've never actually met a vegan who thought all animals are morally worth the same.
They just regard most of them as worth enough not to kill die taste pleasure.
I have. Or at least, I've met vegans who *pretend* that it's what they think. I tend to always hit them with a reductio right away just to try and make them understand that this doesn't strengthen their stance, it weakens it.
th-cam.com/video/F1DLg-DAsmU/w-d-xo.html
I personally think about stopping to eat mammals. you by any chance know if there is a word for that? ^^
Referencing eating meat as "taste pleasure" is exactly that
If eating meat is "taste pleasure" then surely lions, dogs, sharks, bears, and ameobas practice this "taste pleasure" as well which would be a foolish belief
Animals consume other animals as a matter of survival as do humans now in the 1st world you are provided the *luxury* of being able to supplement the required nutrients with artificial supplements but in the 3rd world or wild humans dont have that *luxury* and as meat has a much higher nutrient content is mandatory for survival and in the wild your only real weapon is your mind because the rest of our abilities are far inferior to most animals
@@freaki0734 Pollo-pescetarian: someone who eats both poultry and fish/seafood, though no meat from mammals.
You don't need to be an animal lover to be vegan
And the ones who don't are using environmental arguments and not ethical ones. Alex is either contradicting himself or player hokey pokey with the definition of "lover".
If you had no love whatsoever for animals, killing them for food wouldn't be an issue. To get to veganism, you have to start from a position of caring about the animals that are killed. Alex's comment seems to say otherwise. His comment is either misleading or just simply wrong.
You can say you don't have to want to live in close vicinity with animals to want them not to be killed. I don't see how that is important or relevant at all.
and you don't need to be Vegan, especially if you already have health issues. Veganism doesn't play nice with numerous ailments and associated with plenty of health issues. It is and always has been considered an extreme diet and very prone to health problems.
@@MrBilld75 it cured my health problems. I went from looking at being drugged up for however long I existed for to actually having life to live.
@@sladechimera2837 That's great, I am glad it works for you, however anecdotal evidence IS NOT evidence. The fact is Veganism is littered with proven problems and doesn't work for a very large number of people and has a very high failure rate.
If you understand human Physiology and how we work, it's not hard to understand either. It doesn't play nice with numerous ailments and not everyone can do it. You are not an Herbivore, many plant nutrients don't convert well and it is an extreme diet for a reason. That won't change.
You do you, that's fine, I have zero problems with honest Veganism, especially if it works well for you, but don't try to convert others to the cult like so many Vegans do, by using lies, propaganda and manipulative and subjective morality arguments, like so many do now. Just be Vegan, enjoy your diet and don't tell others how to eat.
That is my major issue with Veganism and some Vegans is the lies. Even honest, educated, sane Vegans hate that shit, because it makes them look bad, extremist Vegans ruin Veganism and EVERYONE despises that type. Be cool and we can all get along.
I became vegan just three weeks ago and just found this video. Not only do I feel so much more secure in my decision, but your arguments are so much stronger than the ones that actually convinced me in the first place. Oh boy, do I have something to show everyone I know. #Plantbasedforever
👋 hey, curious person here. When you have a moment can you list me perhaps top 3 benefits within yourself you have experienced since making the change
@@tommytarkoved1873 Veganism by definition isn't about personal benefit, it's about benefiting non-human animals and the planet.
@@ohmree well, yeah but that doesn't mean the person didn't have any benefits anyway
This video is freaking incredible, i thougth this things for myself but he makes análisis that i didn't even think of, like how the hability to feel pain can be an standar for morality!, i couldn't find one besides sheer logic, empaty and honesty with yourselfe. I just realize that inteligent wasnt the standar. i congratulate you for your descicion!, i hope your doing good, and if you ever feel to temted by an animal product let me remark that vegan junk food is freaking delicious.
@@tommytarkoved1873 hello!, i can answer this for my part.
1. I personally feel happier in a emotional level, because i'm convinced that i'm doing sonething inherently good at reducing sufferment. This feelings do count i assure you.
2. My level of energy has increased since i change fron vegetarian to Vegan. I don't notice it now because it has been so long but i remember how i was with more desire of moving, running, and make physical activities overall.
3. My health is more stable than ever before. I almost never get sick, and if i do is because of really shitty weather conditions and it doenst last more than a couple of days, my inmune system has gotten stronger.
4. Even tho you asked 3... The 4th one is sex, my libido and my overall sex energy is much more firm and intense. This is because i have 0% fat in my arteries blocking the flood of blood in my veins. I will also add than vegan womans have an easier time getting to orgasm because of the same reason.
I hope i was helpfull!.
Just randomly screenshoted the r/place and got here wow
And what are your thoughts on the video?
The way we currently treat animals is completely unacceptable, especially when it comes to factory farming.
This is why I hunt. Many people look down on hunting but good hunters make clean shots on old animals.
@@chrisslack51 if I make clean shots on old humans is that ok if they didn't consent to being killed? Also to say that good hunters shoot old animals is laughable. Rarely would a hunter say "deer live to be 6-14 years old so I will let that 5 year old deer go because he hasn't lived a full life yet".
@@chrisslack51 You are still killing a sentient beings that wants to live. Would you say that it is immoral to kill an old person? Then how do you justify killing an animal just because it's old. Hunting is the next most immoral thing after livestock farming.
@@chrisslack51 Better than absolutely horrible is still horrible. Hunting would only be ethical if you were in the wilderness and absolutely needed to hunt for survival.
Placing empathy that you evolved to have towards humans onto animals seems illogical.
This should be your most viewed video. You're my favorite TH-camr at the moment, thanks for your time and effort in your content. I hope it is as fulfilling for you as it is for us.
These are things that have always bothered me. Thanks for speaking so eloquently about them.
Marie Frenette - speaking eloquently but also flawed in many ways.
@@MugenTJ Let's hear it!
Marie Frenette - my pleasure
Let me list the points he discussed: (and my brief comment for each point)
1. We eat animal because human is more intelligent or in some way better - this is a bad argument by non-vegans. We are no better than a lump of coal, in my opinion. So I agree with Skeptic.
2. We feel pain and suffering, other animals less so or don’t suffer at all- also bad argument. We might have more complex nervous system, but surely they want to live as much as we do without any suffering.
3. The current meat industry wouldn’t be permitted if we design society with impartiality - yes, maybe. This is an extension of point #2. Noticed he didn’t expand this into veganism, where no animal products to be consumed. Because human can still hunt or have small scale farming.
4. Animal and human are different but have equal moral worth. - since this is true, as an extension of point #1, we shouldn’t be cruel to animals. This begs the question: is this to be applied to diet? And generally human way of life!?
So far I just listed the points he argued for and against, to show that I am more or less understand his position. To summarize, all he shows is the ethical issue against animal cruelty, by citing weak arguments from non-vegans (1) and (2).
He ignored the health benefits of eating animal diet. He ignored the fact of nature: we are not herbivores. He ignored ppl kill animals not to be cruel but part of the cycle of life. Most life thrives at the expense of other life forms. We are not even the first to farm for food, ant and termites do it too. Why are we the only animal to be subjected to morality, but not birds or bacteria? Because we understand morality?! Give me a break. Without proper animal diet, I sincerely doubt a human can grow from a baby into adult with a functioning brain to contemplate morality.
Yes, he eloquently presented an argument why we should not be cruel to animals, NOT why animals shouldn’t be food! Ppl farm animals for food, not cruelty.
Marie Frenette - not to mention Alex presented a great discussion on why morality is subjective. So to prove veganism on moral ground is moot. He might as well say: I feel bad that I don’t farm for my food, ppl kill in order for me to have a nice steak...i don’t deserve it. Let’s go vegan instead so I don’t feel guilty being part of a privileged group of human.
@@MugenTJ I'm so amused that you think birds are not part of the animal kingdom... so to wich taxonomic rank do birds belong in your opinion?
And that we have to eat animal products to be healthy. Or that you need a diet with animal products to grow having proper brain functions... can you refer us to any scientific data supporting all those interesting claims that you make?
I can't believe how articulate and convincing you are. You have me floored.
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Well shit, mate... you made me toss my dinner plans
Happy Cats that’s like asking him to suicide
@Susage Boy Because they think they're right? If I live my life as if there were a teapot orbiting the moon that I should worship, that doesn't mean there's a teapot orbiting the moon.
@Happy Cats I could still eat plant based foods without being vegan.i eat both so i dont need to be vegan
Disgusting. Swayed in your convictions by a video made by a man with the audacity to drag moral philosophy into what you choose to consume.
@@harukasatou1359 If you choose to consume babies, is moral philosophy wrongly dragged into that?
This guy making sense is like a massage to the ears. So eloquent and articulate, honest and humble. A true philosopher. I have the highest admiration for this man.
It's crazy he's only 21
This video was the final push to convince me to go vegan. Thank you so much Alex for helping me make this change in my life. I've been vegan since january 2nd and it feels amazing.
How is it a year later now for you? I’m also vegan!😊
@@juliarasklind9171 very good! I'm still vegan and very happy about it. I feel better about the things i eat knowing i'm not contributing to the bio industry etc. But after a year i notice i do get sadder and feel more helpless when i see so many people still eating animal products than a year ago. I would say that's the only "negative" thing though
@@violentbob Most of them don't know what they're doing, only supposed to feel bad about those who've been educated on the subject before
Great video!! Thanks for laying out the arguments so well! You represent the movement so well!!
Damn you Alex! I can't justify eating meat anymore. Good bye meat I will miss you.
Look into the dairy industry as well, if you haven't yet. It's equally if not more abhorrent in many ways, and directly tied to the meat industry (all 'dairy' cows are slaughtered, calves born to 'dairy' cows are either killed shortly after birth or raised for veal or beef)
Best decision mate. I wish I had learned about these filthy industries before
@@macombus269 going on 3 weeks now. Cutting butter and cheese will be am extreme challenge. I'll work on it. One step at a time.
Tim Doran how are you doing now. also replace the butter with vegan butter there’s utterly no difference. but with the cheese, it’s better you not eat the vegan version anyway, it’s just fat
@@Fuzzawakka good effort buddy, still sticking with it? For me its just over a year, feeling great and loving the food i've discovered, was 80% carnivore before too lol
I lived across the road from a cattle farm which also has two large poultry barns for 15 years. I am now vegan.
Across the street I got a vegan community grumpy and sick all the time
I joined the carnivore community now
Ironically, those farms probably help the enviroment more than being a vegan does.
Selfhealing please stop trolling we understand that you think vegans are sickly, give it a rest allright?
Also; cattle farms harm the environment more than cars do in the U.S. because of their out of control methane farts (wish I was joking). If we feed them a little seaweed it reduces those emissions by 95%! But unfortunately it hasn't been enforced yet and cows are still farting a BIG hole in the ozone. Feed your head.
Karsa Orlong Are you ignorant? Are you illiterate? Do you converse in echo chambers?
Traditional farming leads to grazing of lands, or in layman terms: Land Is Re-usable and Fertile.
Where as if you plant only vegetables, no nutrients is being given back to the land, leading to dead soil, further harming the enviroment.
Grazed soil helps store co2 from the atmosphere as well as providing nutrients to plant.
Before you decide to call someone "stupid", I suggest you take a look at yourself and the cause you are advocating for, because not everyone against it is inherently "stupid".
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5811571/
I'm sorry, I can't convince you it's justified. This is one of the best-made video about veganism, thank you for sharing your point.
I'm working on french subtitles. It's worth sharing.
It's crazy he's only 21
@@gugus8081 How? I want to translate it to Dutch but I'm not sure how.
EDIT: Turns out Google removed community translations. Thanks Google.
@@chlorophyllphile I think I found it quite easily, through the video and subtitles settings or something. Maybe in the description. But indeed, I can't find it anymore. Maybe the channel's owner has to enable or permit them ? I don't quite know, sorry :/ can't find any useful info on the web either.
edit : Oh, that's a pity. Thanks google indeed...
Hey, did you go vegan?
Why was this video on a qr-code on r/place?
It's animal rights activism
I remember your on the fence stance from ages ago and am glad you finally made a video on it!!!
Rewatching this after being vegetarian for months and now trying to go vegan
@Mary Whiterabbit why is that? I unterstand your body needs to adjust to the new amount of fiber, but I didn't have many problems with that
Also I ditched milk and eggs in the first week, I don't think that stopping to use animal products altogether will make much of a difference ^^
@@Julia99lol ignore that troll you are doing great! 😎
@Manly Man vegan for almost a year now, convinced my family and best friends to go vegan too, never going back 👌🏻
It shouldn't be hard to go from vegetarian to vegan
I'm confused where you said "trying to go vegan". Do or do not, there is no try. Milk and cheese is merely addictive, not necessary, and we don't need eggs either. Going vegan really isn't all that difficult, unless you live in a 3rd world country with really poor supplies available to you. (but you're commenting on the internet, so I doubt it.)
This isn't what you want to hear, but I think you've nailed it. You don't need to be an 'animal lover' to be vegan, you just need to have the faintest shred of respect for life that stops you from killing innocent animals.
Exactly. I'm not an animal lover. I can easily go to the shelter and not have the slightest desire to take another pet home. I just respect animals as living beings, and I don't take any life that I don't need to.
th-cam.com/video/F1DLg-DAsmU/w-d-xo.html pay attention to matt
are all animals innocent? And how do you not care about all those innocent plants you hurt? (not trying to troll here just a very provocative way of phrasing in order to get you to a point I would like to try and make )
@@freaki0734 plants, so far as we can tell, are incapable of suffering.
If plants _were_ capable of suffering, I'd agree with what you're suggesting.
@@freaki0734 Well we often attribute innocence to those with no understanding of morals, ethics, etc.
Animals used by humans haven't done any harm to us, so when vegans say "innocent animals," they mean that these animals have done no harm to people.
As for plants, they lack brains, a Central Nervous System, and anything else that neuroscientists know to cause sentience. Some studies show plants to have input/output reactions to certain stimulation, but no study suggests plants have sentience or any ability to feel emotions or pain as we understand it.
But, let’s say we discovered that plants actually have something akin to what we understand as “sentience”. In this case, the crucial difference is that we need to eat plants to survive, but we don’t have to eat animals. Furthermore, more plants are used for meat production than for vegetable production because the animals we eat are fed plants, and they can eat way more than us.
Honestly expected a rickroll lol. r/place is such an interesting place
I have lived all of my life in a society that eats meat as a normality. One of my childhood memories is visiting an Agricultural college open day, seeing the cows milked, the calfs fed, and then watching as chickens were converted from clucking around into oven ready. It was simply normal. As a teenager I held an injured bullock , that had been hit by a car, as it was shot. I worked on a farm with a large dairy herd, and later had a part time job , milking cows at weekends. In the winter I earned money as a beater, chasing Pheasants towards the guns to be shot, and learned to dispatch an injured bird by breaking its neck . I have shot rabbits, for the pot. And briefly went fishing.
In short my life was within a society in which animals were kept, and reared for food. No direct cruelty involved? the farms were small and not factories, small enough that we knew the animals we tended by name. Killing and eating the produce of the farm was normal.
Over the years, so many things have changed. I no longer believe that God set us above the animals, farming has moved into factories and the idea of veganism has become better set out.
Now at 70 I view the world differently . Perhaps belatedly, I realise the damage that has been done to the world in order to provide my food, there is a good argument for going 'vegetarian' to mitigate that damage. We now realise how many trees have been felled to give me a burger, how many animals have lost their lives to give me a coffee bean. On grounds of self preservation alone there is a strong argument to give up meat eating.
For some years I have heard 'meat is murder' shouted by protesters, but their arguments have not touched me. I have long considered that if you have to shout, or insult, or use foul language , you have already lost the argument.
This video has made me think. Thank you.
Barry PURKIS this is the most articulate, well considered comment I have ever come across in the comment section on TH-cam.
Well, whenever people have to shout, insult, or use foul language, it tends to be coming from a place of emotion. That doesn't mean anything about wether their beliefs are true/false. It just means they are upset. The content of their position, and how well it matches the real world, is where the truth value comes from.
As a vegan I’d agree that a lot of vegan activism is ineffective. If anything it drives people away from the movement because they see vegans as crazy and really different from ‘normal’ people 😂
“My channel isn’t becoming a veganism advocacy channel” that statement aged poorly. Not a complaint by the way, you’ve convinced me many times over to be a vegan and it is very important, just thought that was funny!
@@MrBilld75 Got actual arguments or are random insults all you have to offer?
I suspect part of you recognises the heinousness of what you do, and you lash out with pathetic bluster to make yourself feel better. It's okay, they rest of us have your back, we'll make sure veganism is the norm.
@@alekz112 Hahaha, delusional, Veganism will never be the norm. you non-Herbivore failure on Physiology, nutrition and well studied numerous problems with that eating disorder inferior diet, ableist. Sure I have plenty of arguments and have debated Vegans into the ground, as have many of us, amateur, lol.
Even your own kind for that matter. Lol. Honest, sane, normal Vegans, are fed up with the cult B.S. and lies too. They are calling you all out on it too. The pseudoscience is epic, lol.
Oh here we go with the "you attack Vegans cause of your guilty conscience" argument, bahahaha, like I said, you're a complete amateur. Lol. Don't project your guilt onto me, typical pathetic Vegtard. I feel no more guilt about my species specific proper, superior human diet, than a Lion feels about a Gazelle, lol.
Classic, lame textbook Vegan B.S. cultist. Wash, rinse, repeat. Typical logical fallacies of a pathetic amateur Vegoon child.
@@MrBilld75 The only illogical fallacies I see are from you. There is literally nothing but bile in your comment, and therefore nothing worth responding to. You do you.
@@alekz112 Nope, lol. Appeal to emotion is one of the favourite and most manipulative fallacies Vegans use. So is strawmanning and false comparison/equivalence. I know your cult like a book and all the Psychology, amateur, hahaha.
@@MrBilld75 You did all of those things, not me.
First time watching you on youtube. I absolutely love the way you structure your arguments and the deep critical thinking. This is gold!
Found this on r/place and thought it was gonna be a rick roll
Yeah I so hyped for that
Its making decisions like this that is the purpose of moral philosophy. Without modifying actions when moral reasoning demands it, the whole thing is just an intellectual game.
Vegetables are great! Join us!
Yet not taking action is in contradiction with the quote at 0:50 from Albert Camus when he says "The principle that can be established that for a man who does not cheat, what he believes to be true must determine his action"
A QR code from a mural filled with amogus made me question many of my ideas: what a time to be alive.
I like meat too much, but I will research more about this topic to answer some questions that I have and maybe change.
Please tell me r/place brought you here
@@dualitywolfie yes hahahaha
I was born and raised in Argentina.... there are a few things we are famous for, and meat is one of them. If I could do it, you can, too. It is only a matter of making the choice. Also... it is a process, and it doesn't have to be overnight. Every time I eat a vegan meal, I think about the fact that I didn't kill an animal for what was on my plate, and the fact that I don't have another being's flesh decomposing inside me. Besides... pooping on a vegan diet is great! lol
I was looking for this comment
@@Vero.does.better haha yes my poops have improved as well since going vegan 💩
I went vegan after watching the video of you and Stephen discussing The Moral Landscape. Thank you so much for opening my eyes to the cruelty I was committing.
I went carnivore after watching this video realizing how much deceiving and delusional vegan community really is
@@selfhealing1047 We can tell you're a deep thinker.
@@selfhealing1047 How reasonable and intelligent you are- how nuanced, your position.
I wouldn't say you were individually committing any cruel action. By being a carnivore, you are merely facilitating and advocating the cruelty of modern animal agriculture in capitalism. By going vegan you are denouncing the cruelty by no longer supporting the capitalist animal agriculture market of cruelty. But I don't think it is fair to blame yourself for such things that you have no control of.
I've been vegan for almost 3 years now, and it's a great lifestyle. I have so much energy now. :)
@@selfhealing1047 Ah yes, the vegan community, the community that Alex, most of his subscribers, and most of the viewers watching aren't a part of. That one.
We need more videos like these that challenge societal thinking
Revisiting this video more than a year later, having gone from being a meat-eater to being vegan. This video was a real starting point on my journey to veganism, because of Alex's calm and rational appeal to moral consistency, rather than just trying to win his viewers over by horrifying them with footage of abuse to cute animals. I'm not saying that this strategy always is superior, but it is what got through to me, and, I think, to many others. So thanks for all that you do!
Same here.
Yeah but they both most definitely have a place in vegan advocacy and I think using both together may be effective
I went vegan for justice. Best decision I’ve made . Never felt better
Simply and well put!
You're actually doing an injustice by going vegan. It's okay to eat animals.
Advenco In some cases you can actually argue it’s the morally correct thing to do. In the absence of natural predators deer have been observed eating all of their food causing a mass die off and local ecological collapse. Therefore due to past mistakes it has become the responsibility of humans to cull deer populations. Should we just leave the dead deer to rot or should we make sure as little as possible goes to waste? This argument goes extra for invasive pest species like wild hogs which really *should* be exterminated to protect native wildlife.
andyrihn1 good argument. We have to preserve the balance in nature somehow. And attempting to reintroduce predatory species could involve too much risk and indeterminable outcomes. So if we were to kill a portion of the deer population for example, what would we do with the corpses? Would it then be morally and ethically justified to eat them?
Also, what if you randomly find a dead deer, rabbit, etc. on the road somewhere? Would it be morally and ethically viable to eat it? I mean, it's already dead, so it won't suffer or experience pain.
Advenco What about animals that don’t have any apparent ability to sense pain like oysters? Where do crustaceans and insects come in? Escargot? Where’s the line?
It's inevitable that humanity will look back with disgust at its omnivorous past - in much the same way we regard those who flourished as a result of slavery.
no, we won't
No, we will look forward to our "proper" Omnivorous future and laugh at how "some" thought they were Herbivores, like you fools. That's why you fail at it sooooooooo often, proven in studies.
@@MrBilld75 studies funded by animal ag industries bro
@@mileshirst593 Hahahahaha, nonsense. Typical of a Vegtard to say. These were not biased survey studies. Just asking random Vegetarians and Vegans about their diet and how many are actually Vegan or quit whatever.
85% quit within the first year, much of the rest within a decade. Over 60% of Vegans claimed they ate meat or animal products and ex-Vegans outnumber current ones 5:1. All separate studies and not biased. Not funded by anyone, lame loser. Nice try, lol.
@@MrBilld75 Gas lighting was never an effective way of proving ones point. You seem to be clutching at straws
Top 10 videos that didn't age well :')
Vegetarianism and veganism are often trivialized at dinner tables amidst raucous laughter from the majority. Thank you, Alex, for another brilliant and insightful video!😁
Well it's pretty fair to trivialize vegetarianism when it's held as a terminal position and not as one step on the way to veganism.
It deserves to be laughed at as well.
achillies40 why?
achillies40 it deserves to be criticized
@@96quinj Because it is proven to be bad for the human body. It's silly. The fact that it's treated like a religion is even another reason it should be laughed at.
Welcome to compassion Alex, you'll feel a lot better when you take the step and align your actions with your morals. :)
Huh well I guess hearing meat eaters explain why veganism makes sense is my kink
My favorite part is when those meat eaters finally realize that rationalizing their complicity in needless violence just doesn't cut it as a justification for doing so.......and then they *GO VEGAN*
Yay!
@@LouisGedo same!!!!!!!
I've been arguing for veganism for months and now and I still eat loads of meat daily, albeit guiltily! This summer I'm going vegan hopefully but it's gonna be tough
@@MrFlameRad What is so tough about it?
@@MrFlameRad Sign up with Challenge 22+ you receive a mentor and there are Nutritionists to help you out too! completly free!
I thought the QR of r/place was a rickroll
It was but the stupid vegans changed it lol
Sounds like you've convinced yourself Alex
'Name the trait' is the most convincing argument for veganism on the purely logical level.
Deacon Couric Not really he took an extreme and compared it to an average. Less than one percent of humans can’t talk. All animals can’t talk like humans.
But I do try and avoid meat on just a environment reason.
@@user-qm9ub6vz5e So your basis for rationally justifying the current treatment of animals is that the normal state of the animal's species is to be unable to talk? Well, then we can apply to that to a hypothetical human species. Imagine through some sort of catastrophe we were left with a population where 51% of the human population was unable to speak. Is it now okay to murder the members of this mute subcategory of human?
@Dragunov Ok then. Firstly, It is important to understand that just because an argument is the most convincing it does not have to convince all members of the opposition. Some people may just be inherently psychopathic. In any case, name the trait present/absent in an animal that would allow you to justify treating humans similarly if they possessed/lacked said trait?
@@deaconcouric5037 The trait I believe that distinguishes us philosophically is simply being a part of human society. Placing empathy that you evolved to have towards humans onto animals seems illogical.
Go watch Dominion! It'll give you that final push! 🌱
Poor plant
Ill eat meat loaf while I watch it.
Yeah it’s what pushed me :(
Ella Ban .......great suggestion!
And that's actually good, they build healthy soils, builds organic matter that holds on to more carbon and water, eats millions of tonns of vegan byproducts and waste, gives us rendered products without using oil (30-50% of the animal is used to rendering for leather and medicine) gives us petfoods, organic fertilizer and food security etc.
www.huffpost.com/entry/meat-save-planet-regenerative-farming_l_5d261f7ae4b0583e482b0192
I hope I'm not the only idiot who scanned a QR from reddit and ended up on this video)
We're two now xD
You aren’t lol
You're not alone xD
Finally subbed. Thank you for your quality content and for presenting your arguments clearly without animosity or judgement.
Why did you finally sub now?
@@c-lawls9915 I did too. I've enjoyed some of the content before, but this got me to hit that sub button. I guess I wanna keep up with replies and counter arguments. I can't wait for the 'zombie farmer argument' to come out. That's the next level.
@@c-lawls9915 I just always had his vids in recommended. This one had me nodding along in absolute agreement and astonishment at his sincerity.
@@djb903 so you are only interested in his videos when they justify a point of view you already hold?
@@merlinbatory2119 I take it you subscribe to loads of creators you disagree with regularly? I like my filter bubble.
He who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings with men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals.
-Immanuel Kant
Kant's argument loses its relevance when the said cruelty is delegated, so that an enormous amount of people can treat animals cruelly but not do so personally, only by supporting others who do so.
More importantly, advocating only indirect moral consideration reinforces rather than contests the mindset underlying animal exploitation.
@David Anewman
Jesus was the sun of a low working class father in ancient times. He did not have a choice. Middle class people in modern times have a choice.
@David Anewman what a word salad, you think that if you assert bullshit, somehow the bullshit is validated?
@David Anewman Meat is more expensive than kidney beans, brown rice, red lentils, pasta, peas, vegetables, fruits, buckwheat, chickpeas, pinto beans, black beans, white rice, soybeans, black lentils, peanuts, oats, mung beans, coconuts, tofu, tempeh, barley, cous cous, seeds, corn, rye, cannelini beans, wheat and a host of other foods - even Oreos, yep, they're cheap and vegan too. You're going to need a better argument than "being vegan is a privilege". The poorest populations on earth don't even know what meat tastes like because it's so expensive - check your privilege, meat-eater.
'Don't worry, my channel isn't turning into a veganism advocacy channel or anything...' 😄 spoke to soon mate 👍🏻 glad to have you on the right side though!
I was thinking the same on my rewatch!
No he's not, he's just joining a cult he will soon fail at like the VAST majority of Vegans do, you failure on human Physiology and nutrition.
@@MrBilld75 that’s not a factual claim, that‘s purely your belief which you‘ve got from watching anti vegan videos which generalizes every vegan. Either show some studies or some scientific data which proves your point or be honest enough to admit that you value sensory pleasures over a sentient being.
@@pierrolunar8561 Sure no problem, lol.
Most Vegans quit after only a year and much of the rest quit within a decade.
www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/most-vegetarians-lapse-after-only-year-180953565/#:~:text=In%20the%20United%20States%2C%20most,meat%2C%20says%20the%20Huffington%20Post.
Vegans and iron studies
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6367879/
Vegans and mental illness (and Psychology has written a lot about it, including eating disorders and their relation to Veganism, not just depression and anxiety.
www.psypost.org/2020/05/meat-eaters-tend-to-have-better-psychological-health-than-vegetarians-56698
Vegans and Omega-3.
www.mja.com.au/journal/2013/199/4/omega-3-polyunsaturated-fatty-acids-and-vegetarian-diets#:~:text=Summary,and%20virtually%20absent%20in%20vegans.
And there is plenty more. Vegans failing all over TH-cam and Vegan athletes quitting. Lol. I get that not all Vegans are cultists, and some are "o.k." and those are the ones who usually quit, lol.
@@MrBilld75 Those do not at all prove a vegan diet can‘t be healthy, just shows vegans can be stupid in dietary choices too.
Well it would seem that I have now stuck with veganism longer than the guy who made the video that convinced me to go vegan. Still going well and feeling great with excellent blood work results. I will be waiting for his explanation video with great interest.
cool!
You go pal all the best for everyone 🙌🤝
Reddit QR Code lmfao
Exactement mdr
Yes !
I thought it would be rickrolled LMAO
Once you have gone vegan and have adjusted to it, you will realise it is one of the best things you have ever done.
You could say the same about anything. It's just like a muslim saying if you haven't tried it you can dislike it
@@morrobarrythere is a clear ethical reason for veganism that many people fully understand, but don't want to change their habits and therefore willfully deny the ethical issue. Once someone is used to being vegan they generally wish they had done so years ago, it's not difficult when used to it. Just watch more of this channel.
@@robertb6076 Veganism is... MALNUTRITION
@@jeewiz9002 There are vegans excelling across all sports, bodybuilding, weightlifting you name it. Give it a serious try and you will feel better.
@@robertb6076 Lmaooo yeah sure bro I was strict vegan almost 5 years it almost killed me in the end. Everyone quits and it’s not sustainable. Every athlete would be vegan if it were really in any way beneficial but instead they excel on animal products it’s the plants really that damage us
This guy is a genius. I recently turned vegan, and he explained why.
You're doing a great thing for the animals and for the planet thank you 💚 How are you 2 months in?
@@lilsaam By recently I meant already a few months behind me. Now it's almost a half year and I feel great.
@@secondtrooper477 Amazing we love to see it
@Tyler B #2 ok dude?
@Tyler B #2 who asked?
Who else is here cuz they found this video via QR code on the 2022 r/place?
Here from Reddit r/place this mobilizing, coordinating is insane
what can I say, we are nothing if not determined. I do hope you stick around for the video :)
This is so strange to me. A meat eater taking (positively) about veganism. But I actually love it. This shows that veganism may not be extreme, and isn’t black and white.
Whats extreme about not wanting to contribute to needless suffering and exploitation brother? A lot of vegans become vociferous about their views and become loud because they want to be the voice animals can't produce.
Its a rare gem, and its proof of how we can all agree if we use logic and reason to handle our issues.
I think most vegans were once "that meat eater" who started talking favorably about veganism and animal rights right before going vegan. 😊😋😊☺
@@pepinillorick5741 Wrong. Logic doesn't get you to veganism. Vegans try to apply a universal goal of sentience protection and fail by Hume's guillotine.
@@Elrog3 hey man, would you be able to explain this a bit. I'm not sure I understand this view on veganism but I am aware of humes law as a naturalistic fallacy.
This was simply one of the best arguments for veganism. One I feel I can share without people accusing me of being a militant angry vegan. Thank you!
UnicornProzac
Oh no, Destiny makes the best case for veganism, you should watch his debates on the issue
@William Lillevik
He may be morally consistent but that doesn't make it a good case for the majority of the world and Destiny knows this (it only really works for him), considering you would have to be borderline psychopathic to agree with him.
If anyone has ill criticism of your veganism, ignore them. One should be an ignorant, psychopathic hypocrite to tell a vegan not to be so.
Matt Stewart
Yeah thats the point, he has to be a psychopath to actually believe what he is saying and be consistent, thats why he’s such a great advocate for veganism
@@Wiggyam oh right haha I interpreted your comment wrong, my bad.
never has this title been more accurate
Meat tastes nice because we've developed ways to make it taste good. So we can do the same with anything, so the fact that "something tastes good" is not valid.
I agree
Meat tastes bad to me but i get a headache when i dont eat it. (I did that for a month)Im not sure what to do
@@user-hy5jy7sf9j are you tracking your nutrients? You could be missing B12 and iron and that could cause headaches.
@@Preservestlandry yeah i think maybe it.. since i guess i wasnt super serious about it at that time
@Sean Francis Waters Lancaster The cow was artificially bred and the fish were farmed. Both were given hormones and supplements. That's what the original post is referring to. Does the taste pleasure you get from your 15 minute meal justify taking the life of someone who didn't want to die?
Very inspiring and thought provoking. I’ve been vegan 8 months now
give up before you lose your teeth
@@JLydecka
the only time i've heard of people on plant based diets ruining their teeth is if they eat an insane amount of fruits everyday and not much else. mostly just long term fruitarians. eating only fruits has absolutely nothing to do with veganism.
Mr LloydVal It’s not just the sugar from fruits but also the absorption of minerals. Bone problems can be a consequence in the long term.
Jacob Lydecka I suggest you give up before everyone catches on to your bias. I’ve had my bloods checked, everything is perfect. No problem with my teeth.
@@nerdykeith Well something will go wrong, I was a veggie/vegan for 7 years and for me it was teeth, bone and joint problems. As well as mental issues, just general brain fog. Digestive issues ect, got very depressed and suicidal and got cancer. No joke.
Then I saw people improving on eating meat but from a healthy source and as you can imagine I was pretty desparate at this point. Even still, since I was in it for the protection of the animals it took a long time for me looking into it before I did it. But my health was going in such a downward spiral I thought I'd just try eating Mussels.
Within the same day my mind got clear and I had bundles of energy. Felt happy.
I still had bone and gut issues though so mussels alone wouldn't cut it.
Tried some local grass fed beef steak on it's own. And basically that was it... I realised it's more unethical for me to deny myself the better version of me (the healthier one that can actually show up for the world and make it better) than to abstain from eating 1/200 of a cow that's had a decent life up until death.
This whole topic is super in depth and nuanced my friend, please be open to uncomfortable truths and refrain from abjectly denying them.
If you're in good shape now, then no problem. I am naturally a high energy person and veganism wasn't cutting it for me. I gave it my best.
And I'm in my early 20's, was bedridden in my prime, thanks to veganism.
And by the way, I started eating meat, organs, butter and eggs, all local grass fed, from the day I was diagnosed with cancer. And guess what, I'm cancer free. So even with all those animal products I ate I know that it still wasn't enough to keep the cancer alive. I feel more alive and happier than I have in many years. That to me is worth the life of a few animals. I'm sure you'd sacrifice 100 animals if it ensured a healthy upbringing for your child.
Anyway, I could go on about how actually environmentally if you eat local animal products you're doing more for the planet than a vegan but I recommend looking for that yourself.
Don't believe the vegan hype my dude, be skeptical. I know it's almost perfect of a philosophy, if it kept me healthy I'd absolutely stick with it, it's got nothing to do with taste. Only welbeing.
Hey, so, I watching your videos for YEARS now, and I first saw this video about a year ago when it was first posted- and I gotta say I was very opposed to it. I've always lived in a rural area where veganism is considered stupid. Over the last year these ideas have been spinning around in the back of my head, and slowly is just started eating less and less animal products unintentionally. I'm happy to say that a couple weeks ago I finally took the jump and went vegan, and I'm really glad I did. I just wanted to thank you for taking the time to educate others. I can honestly say I never would have considered it without your sterling advocacy!
Good job dude, congratulations.
Bruh... Expected a rickroll... R/place qr code brought me here LOL