Karthikeya giving the summery based on educated guesses without knowing anything about the vehicle shows how much experienced he is which is why I absolutely love both of them & MotorInc. Love from Bengaluru!!
I skipped all other channels for Apex review and started on Motorinc without a hiccup. I am not interested in Ather but just listening to you guys makes me satisfied.
Ather also dropped the price of the 450S by a significant amount. It is now a very small jump up from conventional 125 cc scooters. Is it to balance out the overall price range, or are they finally at a point financially, that they can afford the competitive pricing? I think Ather is the best electric scooter you can buy in India today. It is the most finished of the lot. I feel an unexplainable rage every time I see an ola scooter on the road. It is insulting to consumers that ola sells so many of their rubbish while also somehow being incentivized to do so.
Absolutely man, OLA did their marketing well and fooled the public surprisingly easy. It's baffling that even after such bad customer reviews people continue to buy it!
Actually if you look at something like an Activa which is given in company service centres 4 times a year. The way they recommend it to happen, you actually recover money within 5000 kms of riding. Which is not long for many people and actually nice!
Update: The regen can be turned OFF in settings in vehicle (the throttle will still rotate in the opposite direction but the setting can be set to 3 settings OFF, medium, High)
Motorinc Podcasts have really become my go to content while working. I recently bought an R15M and that bike is pure Happiness. I'm so excited to see your views on the all the new vehicles that are gonna be releasing throught 2024. And, Shumi althought we have never met it always feels like as you are my super cool motorcycle aficionado Uncle. Thank you for such amazing content.
The normal 450x also has little bit of reverse accelerator play. Slows down the vehicle, and I use it quite often. Tough with a pillion, when solo I can feel slowing down, for speed bumps I use that to slow down or some traffic less corners.
I genuinely forget that it exists sometimes, not that powerful at all, and also against all riding habits, when I switch with the other two. Asked my father about it, he did not even know, showroom people also never mentioned @@motorinc
The whole point of regen was to convert the kinetic energy into something useful, now if it is getting dissipated as heat why not use the friction braking at first place. Rather than improving energy utilisation, is riding experience the focus here?
Wonder if the regen controls on the left lever (replacing the rear brake) and maybe a unified brake on the right lever would work as more intuitive control🤔
100 on the speedo, or, on a calibrated low error GPS speedometer ? Also, assuming an ambient temperature of 35 °C with 65 % relative humidity, for how long can the warp plus mode be used ?
The idea that both grips can be rotated will be tricky - imagine taking U-turns/bad roads or just a moment of distraction. One solid anchor point is needed. Although it does sound cool.
1. So you need PhD in throttle twisting PhD in Arm movement PhD in road surface PhD in 12 and 10 inch tyres and compounds. PhD in clenching your butt in tricky situations while generating maximum regen. Oh Boy !! Too much efforts to ride an ev. 2. Tarun is far more mature and has grown on my mind after watching him on different podcasts, so much so that bhash has started sounding cocky in his overconfident speeches. Both are serving Indian EV industry but still Tarun is far more better and mature as a CEO of an Automobile company.
Every time i hear about regen and single pedal driving, all i could think of is some guy rear ending me because my break light didn't came on before I started slowing down... Am i the only one 😂
Still no ABS so powerful quick of the line EV Scooters. These tiny scooters match initial acceleration of a RC390 yet lacks a basic ABS to prevent locking up Rear wheel. Tarun Mehta just doing useless talk on podcasts. I've myself locked up rear wheel many times during TD of Ather and OLA
1.89 L. idiotic imo no matter what it does. EVs suck and 1.89 for one is ridiculous. If anything I would hope all public transport (buses, autos, taxis) are EV so pollution can be reduced. Getting one for personal use doesn't make any sense to me.
I ride the high range 450x for my daily commute which is almost 50 km. Total travel distance is about 99.8 km . Even so i get home with almost 18 - 22 km of range left which means it gives 120 ish range. I've driven it for almost 5000 km so far and i must say ather has been a safe and a reliable purchase so far.
After watching your video 3 to 4 times, I have brought 450 apex & wrap+ mode is just awesome. I love this more than my car or any other vachile I have ever driven. However, it's not for beginners. It is dangerously Punchy. Definitely not for family use. Overall, it's totally worth the cost if you are looking for an adrenaline rush on wheels...
Thanks Mate ! I might join Apex club soon and I suspect I will have the same feeling given that I own a 790 and 390 Duke (Not to mention the matching orange theme going on)
Motorinc podcasts should start with caution because once you enter you can't get out of it. Such a addictive intro such a use of classical words to explain with such ground to Earth people which is more important to grow with us. As I said it feels me every time so freshy with fragrance of explanation in the world of oils and grease 🤩❤️
Hey this is just me, we have a 450x and I absolutely love riding it in Economy :) that chassis is stellar.. I love how it lets you do full throttle even in peak traffic. You're the fastest person even in Bangalore's horrid snarls, nearly undeterred. Combine amazing chassis, electric motor that constantly keeps the feedback between body and wheel as opposed to CVT and that with super tight turning circles, it allows for lane filtering like NO other vehicle can let you experience. Plus eco gets to a respectable 50-60kmph. I find myself getting between places faster on the 450X in ECO!! than on my Project Interceptor which now has a high lift camshaft (By NMW Racing) I personally don't see an IMMEDIATE reason to upgrade perse but that magic throttle is something I see adding further value because range is the one thing that I dislike about this scooter.
One very critical aspect everyone seems to have missed. Guys please let us know if the rear brake light comes on when using magic twist. Or if, the de-acceleration is strong enough to warrant brake lights. Some EVs in US had already been recalled over the issue. Don't want to get rear ended.
Good point. I can confim in the 450x it doesn't happen with the forced regen (i think the brake light should come on). Also on the ola the brake lights do come on with forced regen.
@@maulikchachra8144 same I've had the same issue with it... It's kinda hard when there's cars & bikes so close and you use regen They can do it.. it's just a software update away... Idk why they haven't still done it
In the Ather 450 Apex they provided a belt cover which is not available in the other ather scooters lineup. Belt life will get improved and break pads maintenance will be less with regen Personally I expected that kind of regen on my Tork Kratos R electric bike as well. While going to office there are a lot of downward roads where regen will help in improving range to some extent. I have to switch to eco mode frequently to get regen to some extent on my EV
Wow that's a wonderful review from first impressions! I have the Ather 450x and can relate to everything explained, also the issue with regen and how tricky it is to implement without flaws. Ather is a gold standard for electric vehicles. Both of you have given an amazing comparison to all other variants, it's great to hear you two speak. I'd love to see a Live session with you two talking about a motorcycle or a car on stage and publish that...will be great to hear applause and laughter at all the various points in the video!!
All the Ather fanboys, do keep in mind that electric scooters fetch no value in the second hand market. And all the best replacing the battery after 4-5 years of use by paying more than half of what the scooter's price was at the time of buying or even more based on inflation, so be ready to bid goodbye to all the savings that you had accumulated over the years (unless it remains invested in some return generating instrument). People typing about fuel cost savings and all that in the comments should indeed talk about these practical aspects as well. The only way to save the environment is by using more public transport and the govt must do all to improve the situation. What's the use of super fast highways when the last mile connectivity takes the maximum time. It may take 2 hours to go from one city to another but at the same time it takes a good 1.5 hours to go from one point to another in the same city thanks to traffic. So just enjoy and talk about Shumi's take on the riding experience instead. ICE scooters had a purpose and they did a great job serving previous and current generations till date and it's completely nonsense to criticize them because the technology they use comes in way of the environment.
Hullo! Public transport 👍🏽 Battery pack replacement - can any Ather fanboys confirm this? Ice has more flexibility - agreed. But, EV scoots - not motorcycles - have a utility that can work for some.
Ok lets see cost wise, I have an Activa 125 BS6. Covered 4500 kms in 4 years. It gives an average of 45 so 100 litres of petrol. Averaging to 103 rupees petrol price in mumbai, I have spent 10300 rupees on petrol. I get my scooter maintained by the company service centre itself, AMC is for 4 services a year. Average bill of 4000 per service. That brings up to a cost of 64000. So the total amount spent is 74300 rupees. I could get an Ather 450X instead put up 50000 extra at the start. If I charge it at home then my charging cost is negligible as well. I still have an extra 24300, I think I'll spend this on the pro pack and the subscription thing. So basically at 4500 kms I break even. And the difference is just gonna increase where the ather becomes cheaper than the activa. Lets say I'm buying an Aerox, then as per the same funda i could easily afford an Apex as well. So basically if you calculate properly, Apex does make sense at 2 lakh rupees!
Ola products, so far, have failed to earn our recommendation and we see no significant change in those products over time. So we're not really focussed on them for the moment.
Blue graphical scooter with green number plate.. well that should be motoring first EV on road😅.. not sure if there are many funky evs. I liked the summary teaser on TH-cam covers most of the highlights
Ather is very slow with respect to time to Market. This results in people buying updated OLAs. Since the OLAs are not as polished a product compared to Ather. People tend to associate the shortcomings of OLAs to general EVs, which has a negative impact on sales of EVs in general thus impacting the sales of EVs including Athers as well. If Ather has fresh products at the right time, just what OLA does, people would buy a lot more Ather.
@@motorinc Yes. Underneath hardware, they are sorted in that. It's the cosmetic thing where they lack big time. It will take them 10 years to come up with a refreshed design. Till now the changes are very subtle and non exciting.
You do have wonderful summaries for all the videos👍😊. If there was 20-30 Kms increase in range without regen, it would have been great. I guess Ather Apex has an option of turning off Magic twist
I’ve been considering the Ather for the longest time and the biggest negative feedback I’ve heard from users was regarding the rear wheel locking. But now that the Apex has a new way of braking I’m getting closer to my decision to get one!
Ather as company is working great. Hope they remain the same after getting huge. All these decisions are taken wisely i feel. The company feels genuine and honest. Every house must have one. My tvs Jupiter makes no sense now.
Have you guys ever checked with Ather on why they’re not planning a bike like EV rather than the scooty like ones? Because you guys clearly know that India is a young people majority country and if a product is designed, engineered and specced and priced well, it’ll definitely become a huge hit coming from a brand like Ather. Any thoughts if the channel wishes to share on this would be of truly helpful for someone say customers who are aspiring and expecting a product like that from a company like Ather.
Maybe it would have been best if Ather tied the regen to driving modes because rather than trying to learn something like regen via rolling the accelerator, we could just let it do its job using the driving modes but maybe we can expect that in future I feel so but better calibration or say a button immediate close to the throttle to choose level of regen similar to cars could have helped better.
U realise after everything was over that .. omg they did not show the ride nor the full vehicle but the way they casted it , it was as if we were actually riding it along … that’s the power of their delivery … Karthik n Shumi 😊🎉❤
On the 450x which have, I use the regen pretty much all the time once the battery is down to 85% it was actually pretty easy to get used to for me to be honest. but on my scooter the regen is cancelled when the brake is touched
I ended up selling my Ather 450X Gen 3 after about a year. The problem I had was entirely my own. I just couldn't feel comfortable with the way one sits on a scooter. The legs in the front way of sitting was just not comfortable enough. But as a scooter objectively I must say, it was amazing. I too spent all my time in the Warp Mode for my daily commute which was about 25kms. I would really look forward to the day that Ather puts their system in a motorcycle chassis. I think with their tech and understanding of chassis design for tight handling, they could do something really good. The specs speed and range wise need not be more than the Apex, but man I'd definitely be in line to buy an Ather Motorcycle.
@@motorinc I actually picked up a Yamaha R15 V3 in the "S" variant. I picked the R15 based on Shumi's advice. And I can honestly say that it has single handedly made me a better rider. I love the super committed riding posture and the ease with which the bike moves. It really is a fantastic bike. PS: the "S" variant purely because that's the only way I could get a V3 new. And I do feel there's no need for anything more than ABS on a 150cc bike.
Hai sir, Today only im seeing your channel for the first time and saw few videos related to electric vehicles and i was convinced about your thoughts and opinion and i went to ATHER showroom today and booked 450x 3.9kwh variant with pro pack. Now i have a doubt which accesories are really useful and need to buy immediately during the delivery. Please suggest
The Ather 450x is available in both 3rd and 4th generations. They feature distinct regenerative throttle systems, with the 4th gen incorporating Coasting Regen, allowing regenerative braking by simply releasing the throttle. In contrast, the 3rd gen utilizes a regen type similar to the Apex, requiring twisting the throttle to the opposite end for increased regen activation. I am curious about the feasibility of retrofitting this updated regen system to the 3rd gen Ather 450x through a software update by Ather
I like how you guys interact with each other. That is why it's so much fun to watch even the longest videos. Also, the Aether is like iPhones, all premium priced and similar performances. ✌️✌️
So Brands who have managed to get the platform right, it has got a good life and we need to appreciate more of that. Ather in this case, Tata nexon previously.
@motorinc Is it just me or did I miss a conversation on Ather (of any version) missing a "ABS"? 🤔 Given that its the default "Go To e2W" for the enthusiast community, I havent seen / heard a whisper about the word ABS. Needless to say, all the "bells & whistles" come.up a cropper if the "safety" was not compromised with. 😳
Shumi and Karthik, One of the main concerns my family has when I suggested them the Ather was the longevity of the scooter. How long will be battery last? How much will it cost to replace? Will I we be able to use this for the next 15 years? (My current scooter is almost 10 years old and we have no intention of selling it.) If we have to sell this, say 5 years into ownership, will I have to incur a huge loss?
Do the math. If you ride it for 5 years/35k km (600km/month), the scooter would have paid for itself. Activa needs service 4 times a year. Each service will probably end up costing ~1000/1200. Over the course of 5 years, that's 20-25k for just service. Fuel is another 70-90k. Electricity used by the Ather for running 35k km will be about 1500units or ₹10k max. With an 80-100k head start, I wonder where an Activa can make sense over a 450S or even a Chetak Urbane.
@ananda2155 the cost of the Battery is 50K if it is under warranty and 98K if it is out of warranty. This happened on one of the bloggers on Ather 450x. He rode it for 21K kms and the battery started degrading very quickly. He used to get only 40-50 kms of range even in Eco mode. He got it changed by Ather svc and it took a month. So I guess battery cell degradation will anyway get the cost equivalent to ICE scooters if this issue happens on your EV Scooter.
Hey Shumi, just a quick question. I am currently owning a TVS Raider. Wanted to upgrade as travelling is more than 20km per day. But can't exceed the budget much. Deciding between the Apache RTR 200 and RE Hunter. Can you please suggest which is better??
22:30 I think by now, you guys already know, the magic twist has 3 settings off/high/low. I think this scooter is aimed towards the existing customers who want to upgrade and won't get the fame2 subsidy eitherway, as they have utlized it already...which is why they didn't opt for fame2 subsidy. For these people, this is actually better value for money than the 450X HR, as this also comes with helmets, TPMS etc..which justifies the extra 10K(when u exclude subsidy from 450X HR) cost along with the magic twist, higher top speed, warp+ , for this very reason I feel like upgrading my gen 2 450 plus with this, but I wish they had a well defined trade in program like Tesla does.
You made a mistake !!! Thats what I feel. One point that you left incomplete. ..is the calibration of the throttle for regen. Its not that this calibration is something new to EVs. In fact, the OLA guys have focused on regen performance. After the move os 4 update to the S1 Pro (gen 1) the regen in high mode is absolutely impressive. At speeds higher than 60, the scooter slows down well. Its a confident deceleration. If riding at speeds below 60, the scooter does come to a stop with just the reverse throttle in high regen mode. Another thing, I dont think that zero regen is mandated by law (I haven't checked it, telling you on basis of my experience) because there is a zero regen mode in the Ola S1 Pro after move os 4 update. So, that option wouldn't have been there if regen was mandatory. The guys at ola seem to be working hard on their product. The move os 4 software is glitch free. And the newer additions that come along with the update are all impressive. I have been fortunate to fully experience these EVs. Myself having an OLA S1 PRO (GEN 1) and an Ather 450X Gen 3. And an Ola S1 pro Gen 2 with my cousin. So, I have experienced all three of them.
Great overview guys! Loved the natural conversation! Guys Do you think, Ather can now test thier scooters at more diverse locations like; Ladakh, Sikkim, Rajasthan etc...? To get more real world data about thier vehicle behavior, when exposed to different ambient & altitude conditions. Or it is still financially not feasible for them?
Hey, shumi I think every ather 450 should have regen using only accelerator, functionality should be not going past the accelating point, it should start braking as soon as you give input to slow down and learing to glide through using only accelator would be really good, i shouldn't be wrong to say that ota updates can be done. To implement this. Unless there is additional hardware in motor to add regen.
Could you please suggest two bike options under 2 Lakh . 4000km city ride but 30000km per year highway and hill area trip with buddy .. Currently using passion X pro for the same purposes. want to upgrade.. Single bike garage😊
Great work guys, a small request please try to include small video clips from your test drives at their respective time stamps, it will make the content even more engaging. Also wanted to know why do you guys not make your content in HINDI ?
15:01 Yes, it isn't intuitive at all but i don't know if anyone else does this but i sometimes tend to twist the throttle lever of my Jupiter to the opposite direction to avoid unintended acceleration while braking or going downhill so the MagicTwist feature seems like a big win in my books. The only thing i fear the most is that it may or may not make you forget that the actual brakes exist because you rely so much on the regen braking.
Not a single Ola product we’ve tested has done well enough for us to recommend it. We don’t hate products or brands, but we do have limited time and we’d like to use it well if we can
Will magic twist increase my reaction time in case of emergency situation? I think after using magic twist for a considerable period my muscle memory will be lost and affect my ability of a panic braking or urgent braking skills? I ride Ather and want to use regen but above concern was constraint to use regen even in normal braking situations. Please comment. ❤
Karthikeya giving the summery based on educated guesses without knowing anything about the vehicle shows how much experienced he is which is why I absolutely love both of them & MotorInc. Love from Bengaluru!!
🤜🏽🤛🏽
I skipped all other channels for Apex review and started on Motorinc without a hiccup. I am not interested in Ather but just listening to you guys makes me satisfied.
We are grateful for that! Thank you!
Ather also dropped the price of the 450S by a significant amount. It is now a very small jump up from conventional 125 cc scooters. Is it to balance out the overall price range, or are they finally at a point financially, that they can afford the competitive pricing? I think Ather is the best electric scooter you can buy in India today. It is the most finished of the lot. I feel an unexplainable rage every time I see an ola scooter on the road. It is insulting to consumers that ola sells so many of their rubbish while also somehow being incentivized to do so.
Unexplained urge- Ola.. oh I can relate 😂😅
Absolutely man, OLA did their marketing well and fooled the public surprisingly easy. It's baffling that even after such bad customer reviews people continue to buy it!
Actually if you look at something like an Activa which is given in company service centres 4 times a year. The way they recommend it to happen, you actually recover money within 5000 kms of riding. Which is not long for many people and actually nice!
Actually ather has long way to go... I own a 450x, not satisfied with the product 😢
@@charanreddy2504why?
Update: The regen can be turned OFF in settings in vehicle (the throttle will still rotate in the opposite direction but the setting can be set to 3 settings OFF, medium, High)
Motorinc Podcasts have really become my go to content while working. I recently bought an R15M and that bike is pure Happiness. I'm so excited to see your views on the all the new vehicles that are gonna be releasing throught 2024. And, Shumi althought we have never met it always feels like as you are my super cool motorcycle aficionado Uncle. Thank you for such amazing content.
Thank you very much! And congratulations on the R15M! ❤️
I am curious. Apart from the r15 and duke 390 , is there any other bike that Shumi wholeheartedly recommends ?@@motorinc
The normal 450x also has little bit of reverse accelerator play. Slows down the vehicle, and I use it quite often. Tough with a pillion, when solo I can feel slowing down, for speed bumps I use that to slow down or some traffic less corners.
Do you like using it? And did you like it at first?
I genuinely forget that it exists sometimes, not that powerful at all, and also against all riding habits, when I switch with the other two. Asked my father about it, he did not even know, showroom people also never mentioned @@motorinc
The whole point of regen was to convert the kinetic energy into something useful, now if it is getting dissipated as heat why not use the friction braking at first place. Rather than improving energy utilisation, is riding experience the focus here?
similar to Magic twist in apex, OLA is already having regen in the all the variants.
Wonder if the regen controls on the left lever (replacing the rear brake) and maybe a unified brake on the right lever would work as more intuitive control🤔
100 on the speedo, or, on a calibrated low error GPS speedometer ? Also, assuming an ambient temperature of 35 °C with 65 % relative humidity, for how long can the warp plus mode be used ?
Awaiting review on Aprilia 457. Test rides happened I guess.
althought the batter is unot change rhe software for battery consumption is modified and optimised.
So Karthikeya finished the entre episode in first 3 minutes eh? xD
Stayed after that just to watch you 2 banter.
Haha thanks for sticking around.
Maybe it would be easier to control if they put the regen control throttle on the left side.
The idea that both grips can be rotated will be tricky - imagine taking U-turns/bad roads or just a moment of distraction. One solid anchor point is needed. Although it does sound cool.
1. So you need
PhD in throttle twisting
PhD in Arm movement
PhD in road surface
PhD in 12 and 10 inch tyres and compounds.
PhD in clenching your butt in tricky situations while generating maximum regen.
Oh Boy !! Too much efforts to ride an ev.
2. Tarun is far more mature and has grown on my mind after watching him on different podcasts, so much so that bhash has started sounding cocky in his overconfident speeches.
Both are serving Indian EV industry but still Tarun is far more better and mature as a CEO of an Automobile company.
Hey GK! You just need to ride. If it works - it works! Else, move on.
wow now as a non buyer im confused what to look for ather or hunter 350
Ather price starts from 1.89 lakh which is high as the design is same
💯
Why don't they put an additional tiny battery or capacitor somewhere to capture the extra energy back, charge that up and use it as KERS lol
Lovely! WarpX!
@@motorinc sometimes my genius, it can improve acceleration & range
Every time i hear about regen and single pedal driving, all i could think of is some guy rear ending me because my break light didn't came on before I started slowing down... Am i the only one 😂
EV brand startups' are obviously inspired by software brands - so this is Athers version of Windows 11 release 1103 v2
😂 Given how much software they run, yes there will be updates and revisions and versions on most of them for sure
@@motorinc EV startups must have evolved from a UX based on Need For Speed on PlayStation
Kartikeya’s guessing is the summary essentially but in future tense😂
😂❤
Indeed! We’re as surprised as you are!
Karthick stoles the initial part of the show 😂
🤜🏽🤛🏽
Still no ABS so powerful quick of the line EV Scooters. These tiny scooters match initial acceleration of a RC390 yet lacks a basic ABS to prevent locking up Rear wheel. Tarun Mehta just doing useless talk on podcasts.
I've myself locked up rear wheel many times during TD of Ather and OLA
ABS as an option at least.
Day 236 of requesting Shumi to please give his opinion on the new Himalyan 452. Please😢
Stay tuned!
Once you get to hyundai pedal system every thing seems bad. Shumi does not know how to drive Evs
Thanks for letting us know Mohan!
2:13 that color combo looks ugly
👍🏽
These guys are absolute automotive icons! This is the incredibly lively and exciting Top Gear of India!❤
1.89 L. idiotic imo no matter what it does. EVs suck and 1.89 for one is ridiculous. If anything I would hope all public transport (buses, autos, taxis) are EV so pollution can be reduced. Getting one for personal use doesn't make any sense to me.
I ride the high range 450x for my daily commute which is almost 50 km. Total travel distance is about 99.8 km . Even so i get home with almost 18 - 22 km of range left which means it gives 120 ish range. I've driven it for almost 5000 km so far and i must say ather has been a safe and a reliable purchase so far.
5000k? 5 million km will be the highest ever set on electric vehicle so far. congrats
@@kishananuraag lol its 5k km .. my bad
After watching your video 3 to 4 times, I have brought 450 apex & wrap+ mode is just awesome.
I love this more than my car or any other vachile I have ever driven.
However, it's not for beginners. It is dangerously Punchy.
Definitely not for family use.
Overall, it's totally worth the cost if you are looking for an adrenaline rush on wheels...
Thanks Mate ! I might join Apex club soon and I suspect I will have the same feeling given that I own a 790 and 390 Duke (Not to mention the matching orange theme going on)
Motorinc podcasts should start with caution because once you enter you can't get out of it.
Such a addictive intro such a use of classical words to explain with such ground to Earth people which is more important to grow with us.
As I said it feels me every time so freshy with fragrance of explanation in the world of oils and grease 🤩❤️
Thanks Phani! Glad you’re enjoying the MotorInc experience! ❤️😊
Hey this is just me, we have a 450x and I absolutely love riding it in Economy :) that chassis is stellar.. I love how it lets you do full throttle even in peak traffic. You're the fastest person even in Bangalore's horrid snarls, nearly undeterred.
Combine amazing chassis, electric motor that constantly keeps the feedback between body and wheel as opposed to CVT and that with super tight turning circles, it allows for lane filtering like NO other vehicle can let you experience.
Plus eco gets to a respectable 50-60kmph. I find myself getting between places faster on the 450X in ECO!! than on my Project Interceptor which now has a high lift camshaft (By NMW Racing)
I personally don't see an IMMEDIATE reason to upgrade perse but that magic throttle is something I see adding further value because range is the one thing that I dislike about this scooter.
Excellent! We’re glad you’re enjoying your ride! Thanks for letting us know Tarun!
One very critical aspect everyone seems to have missed. Guys please let us know if the rear brake light comes on when using magic twist. Or if, the de-acceleration is strong enough to warrant brake lights. Some EVs in US had already been recalled over the issue. Don't want to get rear ended.
Good point. I can confim in the 450x it doesn't happen with the forced regen (i think the brake light should come on). Also on the ola the brake lights do come on with forced regen.
@@maulikchachra8144 Thanks for the input.
@@maulikchachra8144 same I've had the same issue with it... It's kinda hard when there's cars & bikes so close and you use regen
They can do it.. it's just a software update away... Idk why they haven't still done it
Man these videos are fun. A nice conversation between two friends who know their stuff.
Thanks for including us.
The intro gets me every time !
Awesomeness! Thanks a ton!
Shumi has the toughest job. Poor guy would have also had to ride those Aprilias? that too on a racetrack. Man, how do you even cope with all this?
In the Ather 450 Apex they provided a belt cover which is not available in the other ather scooters lineup. Belt life will get improved and break pads maintenance will be less with regen
Personally I expected that kind of regen on my Tork Kratos R electric bike as well. While going to office there are a lot of downward roads where regen will help in improving range to some extent. I have to switch to eco mode frequently to get regen to some extent on my EV
Shumi not wearing Only The Truth shirt . That means he will not say truth 😂
😆 There’s one mode only! Patch is optional.
Wow that's a wonderful review from first impressions! I have the Ather 450x and can relate to everything explained, also the issue with regen and how tricky it is to implement without flaws. Ather is a gold standard for electric vehicles. Both of you have given an amazing comparison to all other variants, it's great to hear you two speak. I'd love to see a Live session with you two talking about a motorcycle or a car on stage and publish that...will be great to hear applause and laughter at all the various points in the video!!
All the Ather fanboys, do keep in mind that electric scooters fetch no value in the second hand market. And all the best replacing the battery after 4-5 years of use by paying more than half of what the scooter's price was at the time of buying or even more based on inflation, so be ready to bid goodbye to all the savings that you had accumulated over the years (unless it remains invested in some return generating instrument). People typing about fuel cost savings and all that in the comments should indeed talk about these practical aspects as well. The only way to save the environment is by using more public transport and the govt must do all to improve the situation. What's the use of super fast highways when the last mile connectivity takes the maximum time. It may take 2 hours to go from one city to another but at the same time it takes a good 1.5 hours to go from one point to another in the same city thanks to traffic. So just enjoy and talk about Shumi's take on the riding experience instead. ICE scooters had a purpose and they did a great job serving previous and current generations till date and it's completely nonsense to criticize them because the technology they use comes in way of the environment.
Hullo!
Public transport 👍🏽
Battery pack replacement - can any Ather fanboys confirm this?
Ice has more flexibility - agreed.
But, EV scoots - not motorcycles - have a utility that can work for some.
Ok lets see cost wise, I have an Activa 125 BS6. Covered 4500 kms in 4 years. It gives an average of 45 so 100 litres of petrol. Averaging to 103 rupees petrol price in mumbai, I have spent 10300 rupees on petrol. I get my scooter maintained by the company service centre itself, AMC is for 4 services a year. Average bill of 4000 per service. That brings up to a cost of 64000. So the total amount spent is 74300 rupees. I could get an Ather 450X instead put up 50000 extra at the start. If I charge it at home then my charging cost is negligible as well. I still have an extra 24300, I think I'll spend this on the pro pack and the subscription thing. So basically at 4500 kms I break even. And the difference is just gonna increase where the ather becomes cheaper than the activa. Lets say I'm buying an Aerox, then as per the same funda i could easily afford an Apex as well. So basically if you calculate properly, Apex does make sense at 2 lakh rupees!
🤯 maths of another kind!
Thank you 😂
I saw a review for the River Indie
One for the Orxa Mantis.
This one for Ather 450 Apex.
No love for Ola?
Hey AB, Have they brought a new scooter? We may have missed it.
@@motorinc S1X?
Ola products, so far, have failed to earn our recommendation and we see no significant change in those products over time. So we're not really focussed on them for the moment.
So, basically Aether now allows you to throttle in the opposite direction and you end up saving 5-10 rupees per full charge.
Blue graphical scooter with green number plate.. well that should be motoring first EV on road😅.. not sure if there are many funky evs. I liked the summary teaser on TH-cam covers most of the highlights
👍🏽👍🏽
Ather is very slow with respect to time to Market. This results in people buying updated OLAs. Since the OLAs are not as polished a product compared to Ather. People tend to associate the shortcomings of OLAs to general EVs, which has a negative impact on sales of EVs in general thus impacting the sales of EVs including Athers as well. If Ather has fresh products at the right time, just what OLA does, people would buy a lot more Ather.
It’s also the reason why Arher doesn’t have as many issues or need updates. 🤷♂️
Ola over promises under delivers, while with ather its totally opposite
@@motorinc Yes. Underneath hardware, they are sorted in that. It's the cosmetic thing where they lack big time. It will take them 10 years to come up with a refreshed design. Till now the changes are very subtle and non exciting.
@@sameermehtalive I wish they are more aggressive in design changes.
You do have wonderful summaries for all the videos👍😊.
If there was 20-30 Kms increase in range without regen, it would have been great.
I guess Ather Apex has an option of turning off Magic twist
👍🏽🙏🏾
I’ve been considering the Ather for the longest time and the biggest negative feedback I’ve heard from users was regarding the rear wheel locking. But now that the Apex has a new way of braking I’m getting closer to my decision to get one!
Keep us posted! Thanks!
The 1st time I rode 450, I was surprised by how the scooter handles itself! Never felt so balanced in a scooter before. Is that the chasis?😮
I just love this show, I HATE evs but I just like the way they do it
Why manufactures are not putting solar panels instead of transparent pastic?
Kathikeya did the summarising guessing thing very crisp... It really felt like AI 🤣
😆
Ather as company is working great. Hope they remain the same after getting huge. All these decisions are taken wisely i feel. The company feels genuine and honest. Every house must have one. My tvs Jupiter makes no sense now.
TVS iQube will!
no kidding, i have never seen one in real life. @@motorinc
Have you guys ever checked with Ather on why they’re not planning a bike like EV rather than the scooty like ones? Because you guys clearly know that India is a young people majority country and if a product is designed, engineered and specced and priced well, it’ll definitely become a huge hit coming from a brand like Ather. Any thoughts if the channel wishes to share on this would be of truly helpful for someone say customers who are aspiring and expecting a product like that from a company like Ather.
Don't buy early the company will be slashing the price within the first 6 months. Wait until the.
Maybe it would have been best if Ather tied the regen to driving modes because rather than trying to learn something like regen via rolling the accelerator, we could just let it do its job using the driving modes but maybe we can expect that in future I feel so but better calibration or say a button immediate close to the throttle to choose level of regen similar to cars could have helped better.
Does the brake light comes up during Regen? It should be as the vehicle is slowing down more than what it would do naturally
We believe it does but we’ll check and revert n
Karthikeya pretending to know nothing and everything is a good try. 😂 😅
It is only Shummi who is a savior ❤
Thankfully you dint compare this with your favourite classic 350 , as you do in most of your videos
It’s right time to update the design, ather.
We are fatigued with the current design!
New scooter coming in 2024
Bringg yeet already!
10 years of Ather 450apex produced for 10 months… jan -oct24….
U realise after everything was over that .. omg they did not show the ride nor the full vehicle but the way they casted it , it was as if we were actually riding it along … that’s the power of their delivery … Karthik n Shumi 😊🎉❤
Aprilia rs 457? It's pending... Don't ignore the last of ICs😂😢
How is the braking on these small tyres with small discs, with so much electrical power?
Was expecting different design. It is good looking but yeah same old boring design
What's new? This -> 🐒
(Hint: Ather 450 Ape-x)
#kidding
What car does shumi own?
He doesn’t. 😊
On the 450x which have, I use the regen pretty much all the time once the battery is down to 85%
it was actually pretty easy to get used to for me to be honest. but on my scooter the regen is cancelled when the brake is touched
Thanks for sharing that SB!
Just love your deep analysis. Great work guys. Ather 450S is now 25 to 30 thousand cheaper. New prices are out.
Indeed! 20-25k cheaper (base & propack)
I ended up selling my Ather 450X Gen 3 after about a year. The problem I had was entirely my own. I just couldn't feel comfortable with the way one sits on a scooter. The legs in the front way of sitting was just not comfortable enough. But as a scooter objectively I must say, it was amazing. I too spent all my time in the Warp Mode for my daily commute which was about 25kms.
I would really look forward to the day that Ather puts their system in a motorcycle chassis. I think with their tech and understanding of chassis design for tight handling, they could do something really good. The specs speed and range wise need not be more than the Apex, but man I'd definitely be in line to buy an Ather Motorcycle.
Hey BS! Glad you moved on though.. if you don’t like it - find what else works. Ather motorcycle sounds interesting - maybe a few years later.
@@motorinc I actually picked up a Yamaha R15 V3 in the "S" variant. I picked the R15 based on Shumi's advice. And I can honestly say that it has single handedly made me a better rider. I love the super committed riding posture and the ease with which the bike moves. It really is a fantastic bike.
PS: the "S" variant purely because that's the only way I could get a V3 new. And I do feel there's no need for anything more than ABS on a 150cc bike.
Awesome! Glad we've helped!
I had not signed up for a summary at the start of the video Kartik. Great video as always folks😂
Boom! 🤣
Ola's regin is the same way right using the throttle?
Ola has this regen to stop..in it's scooters. Ather gave a new name like apple do😜
I love the Athers. But won't buy one because
1. At 6'3", don't really fit
2. I prefer motorcycles
Good enough!
Bring back M-80. We don’t need fancy tech.
Hai sir,
Today only im seeing your channel for the first time and saw few videos related to electric vehicles and i was convinced about your thoughts and opinion and i went to ATHER showroom today and booked 450x 3.9kwh variant with pro pack. Now i have a doubt which accesories are really useful and need to buy immediately during the delivery. Please suggest
The Ather 450x is available in both 3rd and 4th generations. They feature distinct regenerative throttle systems, with the 4th gen incorporating Coasting Regen, allowing regenerative braking by simply releasing the throttle. In contrast, the 3rd gen utilizes a regen type similar to the Apex, requiring twisting the throttle to the opposite end for increased regen activation. I am curious about the feasibility of retrofitting this updated regen system to the 3rd gen Ather 450x through a software update by Ather
That would be cool if they offered it. But the other hardware changes would get in the way.
Magic Twist sounds like beautiful technology. So cool.
It does!
I like how you guys interact with each other. That is why it's so much fun to watch even the longest videos.
Also, the Aether is like iPhones, all premium priced and similar performances. ✌️✌️
Yesterday I took 450x to bring my mum from city, and boys were shouting, "Ola"! 😑
🤦
But … 🤣
People must beJust smiling during the guessed summary
Pls Review honda cb350 pls i want to hear 🙉
So Brands who have managed to get the platform right, it has got a good life and we need to appreciate more of that. Ather in this case, Tata nexon previously.
Great takeaway. Do it once. Do it right.
Ather charges subscription for connected features (maps, location etc) even with pro pack after complimentary years are over.
Thanks for letting us know!
Thanks for the info!
How much for subscription??
@motorinc
Is it just me or did I miss a conversation on Ather (of any version) missing a "ABS"? 🤔
Given that its the default "Go To e2W" for the enthusiast community, I havent seen / heard a whisper about the word ABS. Needless to say, all the "bells & whistles" come.up a cropper if the "safety" was not compromised with. 😳
Shumi and Karthik,
One of the main concerns my family has when I suggested them the Ather was the longevity of the scooter.
How long will be battery last?
How much will it cost to replace?
Will I we be able to use this for the next 15 years? (My current scooter is almost 10 years old and we have no intention of selling it.)
If we have to sell this, say 5 years into ownership, will I have to incur a huge loss?
Do the math. If you ride it for 5 years/35k km (600km/month), the scooter would have paid for itself.
Activa needs service 4 times a year. Each service will probably end up costing ~1000/1200. Over the course of 5 years, that's 20-25k for just service. Fuel is another 70-90k.
Electricity used by the Ather for running 35k km will be about 1500units or ₹10k max.
With an 80-100k head start, I wonder where an Activa can make sense over a 450S or even a Chetak Urbane.
@ananda2155 the cost of the Battery is 50K if it is under warranty and 98K if it is out of warranty. This happened on one of the bloggers on Ather 450x. He rode it for 21K kms and the battery started degrading very quickly. He used to get only 40-50 kms of range even in Eco mode. He got it changed by Ather svc and it took a month. So I guess battery cell degradation will anyway get the cost equivalent to ICE scooters if this issue happens on your EV Scooter.
Very valid concern. You're the first commenter I've seen ask.
Hey Shumi, just a quick question. I am currently owning a TVS Raider. Wanted to upgrade as travelling is more than 20km per day. But can't exceed the budget much. Deciding between the Apache RTR 200 and RE Hunter. Can you please suggest which is better??
22:30 I think by now, you guys already know, the magic twist has 3 settings off/high/low. I think this scooter is aimed towards the existing customers who want to upgrade and won't get the fame2 subsidy eitherway, as they have utlized it already...which is why they didn't opt for fame2 subsidy. For these people, this is actually better value for money than the 450X HR, as this also comes with helmets, TPMS etc..which justifies the extra 10K(when u exclude subsidy from 450X HR) cost along with the magic twist, higher top speed, warp+ , for this very reason I feel like upgrading my gen 2 450 plus with this, but I wish they had a well defined trade in program like Tesla does.
I wonder how the belt drive will be able to handle the additional strain of acceleration and regen. Any updates on that?
Yes it should. No stress. The belt issue was there, wasn’t related to performance and in any case, is solved now.
You made a mistake !!!
Thats what I feel.
One point that you left incomplete. ..is the calibration of the throttle for regen. Its not that this calibration is something new to EVs. In fact, the OLA guys have focused on regen performance. After the move os 4 update to the S1 Pro (gen 1) the regen in high mode is absolutely impressive. At speeds higher than 60, the scooter slows down well. Its a confident deceleration. If riding at speeds below 60, the scooter does come to a stop with just the reverse throttle in high regen mode.
Another thing, I dont think that zero regen is mandated by law (I haven't checked it, telling you on basis of my experience) because there is a zero regen mode in the Ola S1 Pro after move os 4 update. So, that option wouldn't have been there if regen was mandatory.
The guys at ola seem to be working hard on their product. The move os 4 software is glitch free. And the newer additions that come along with the update are all impressive.
I have been fortunate to fully experience these EVs. Myself having an OLA S1 PRO (GEN 1) and an Ather 450X Gen 3.
And an Ola S1 pro Gen 2 with my cousin.
So, I have experienced all three of them.
So it doesn't make sense buying the Apex?
Great overview guys! Loved the natural conversation!
Guys Do you think, Ather can now test thier scooters at more diverse locations like; Ladakh, Sikkim, Rajasthan etc...? To get more real world data about thier vehicle behavior, when exposed to different ambient & altitude conditions. Or it is still financially not feasible for them?
No backward compatibility as usual from Ather and finally the end of 450 series
What's backward compatibility?
What would you like to see added on from the software?
Hey, shumi I think every ather 450 should have regen using only accelerator, functionality should be not going past the accelating point, it should start braking as soon as you give input to slow down and learing to glide through using only accelator would be really good, i shouldn't be wrong to say that ota updates can be done. To implement this. Unless there is additional hardware in motor to add regen.
Did you guys ride the RS457?
Ask us again in a couple of hours… 😬
@@motorinc okay asking you guys after a couple of hours 😅 Did you guys ride the RS457?
Yup! 😊
Petrol price is high(for me).Suggest 1 all rounder bike.I have N160.Just need another final one.
Could you please suggest two bike options under 2 Lakh . 4000km city ride but 30000km per year highway and hill area trip with buddy .. Currently using passion X pro for the same purposes. want to upgrade.. Single bike garage😊
Great work guys, a small request please try to include small video clips from your test drives at their respective time stamps, it will make the content even more engaging.
Also wanted to know why do you guys not make your content in HINDI ?
your logo also indium blue, isn't it?
So should I go for electric scooter? I live in Himachal. I don't think EV can pull me through these roads. Am I wrong?
15:01 Yes, it isn't intuitive at all but i don't know if anyone else does this but i sometimes tend to twist the throttle lever of my Jupiter to the opposite direction to avoid unintended acceleration while braking or going downhill so the MagicTwist feature seems like a big win in my books. The only thing i fear the most is that it may or may not make you forget that the actual brakes exist because you rely so much on the regen braking.
Why only Ather not a video about S1 pro gen2 ? Is shumi really hate that much ola or spoke too much bad they didn't even let him touch....
13:55 ola regen is present since day 1 at it activated at after 90%
Not a single Ola product we’ve tested has done well enough for us to recommend it. We don’t hate products or brands, but we do have limited time and we’d like to use it well if we can
Will magic twist increase my reaction time in case of emergency situation? I think after using magic twist for a considerable period my muscle memory will be lost and affect my ability of a panic braking or urgent braking skills? I ride Ather and want to use regen but above concern was constraint to use regen even in normal braking situations. Please comment. ❤