I would have folded on the turn. I'd put the villain as being very likely to have a pocket pair, and all of the pocket pairs (other than 4s through 2s) are an overpair, a straight, or a set. I can't see any bluffs here other than J-10. I don't think that he's doing this with an Ace high bluff. I definitely agree with the caller saying he'd fold Jacks or 10s on the river. But yeah, it's pretty hard to put someone on a range that would call a 3 bet with two players behind preflop. I think it's heavily weighted towards pocket pairs, rather than suited connectors or suited Aces, but it's hard to say.
By the turn, you are behind literally everything. You're behind all medium pairs, which make either Sets or straights, and you're behind all overpairs.
🎯 you’re essentially just bluff catching on the turn. Hero is being results oriented in his explanations imo. Blockers can be a great tool, but they’re overanalyzed at times. He keeps talking about having the 9 as a blocker, but his Ace also blocks his opponents Ace-high bluffs. I hear a lot of players try to justify bad play because they unblock/block 1 specific combination out of 16 or something, and they put entirely way too much weight into that. It’s like calling a 5 bet all in preflop with A-K and are shocked when opponent has AA or KK, because we blocked those.
Caller is results oriented. It’s a bad call. Only thing he beats is jack ten. Only calling this vs a maniac who would float the flop with king queen and stuff like that. Many more combinations of value hands than bluffs. Bet you this caller wouldn’t phone in if villain showed7,8 suited
Scary call but I think is totally profitable. Villain just calling on the flop and then blasting after reading heros turn check as weak. Bluffing on boards like this is horrible on 3 bet pots, because is very easy to bluff catch with just a pair, the usual ranges dont connect well with this board.
Not sure where you learned to count combos but there are: - 11 combos of boats+ - 12 combos of straights - 6 combos of TT he may be turning into a bluff
I'd love to know what @CrushLivePoker thinks hero should do on the turn with his flopped sets (99, 77, 66). Do we continue to bet turn with our flopped sets, or check-call turn, and then make a game-time decision about what to do depending on the river? If we're supposed to check-call turn, are we check-folding to a bet when the river is a brick, or check-calling, or block-betting? Bart seems to hate check-calling rivers, check-folding all our sets on a brick seems too nitty, and going bet flop-check turn-block bet river seems like it might be an easily exploitable line for any aware opponent. It seems like hero's line here with top pair should be more pot-control oriented, like check/call flop, check/fold turn. With flopped sets, I guess he's supposed to go check/call, check/call, then use a mixed strategy of block-bet / over-bet / check-raise river, maybe?
Bet turn. It's like a Test betting. x turn would induce the bluff easily. Particularly with LAGs. They'd see x as a weakness and start pounding. Then you cannot know whether it's a bluff (bet) or value call (straight). Just keep guessing...Horrible situation to be in. I like when I pay for info. Once I pay, I know I got peace of mind.
Bart and caller seem to be forgetting villain could also be turning JJ/TT into a bluff trying to fold out QQ+ when thinking it’s better to have 9x here.
Villain isn't taking this line with JJ and TT because those hands have so much SDV on the turn that turning it to a bluff makes no sense. Any of the SDV hands that beat you are not going to turn themselves into a bluff lol
This was really interesting. Bart's explanation of A9 blocking hands like 99 or 98 does make sense to me. But doesn't villain have some over-pairs here? Or are we assuming TT & JJ are usually 4 betting pre? I actually liked the caller's thinking that maybe his holding TT or JJ might be folds because of blocking villain holding something like JT. In the end, I don't think I'm calling with A9 here and folding AA or KK. At least partly because of the river pairing. It seems like there is enough counterfeiting of villain 2 pairs, as well as beating something like TT that did not 4 bet pre.
@@pot_kivach160 Your post caused me to re-watch the video. I think people would describe me as somewhat nitty. I'd be fine here either way on the turn. Hero can easily be beat, but also as an above average hand. I cannot really see folding the river here though. Anyways, no one would ever say I'm a calling station & I'd call here with at least some frequency. Partly because it's hard for me to fold the perfect river card. Maybe perfect is a strong word, but only an A, 9, or 5 improves our hand. So it's a great card for us.
@EllieBanks333 I just thought it was overcalling on 2 streets. Sorry, didn't mean to insult. Perhaps, should've chosen different wording instead (overcalling, etc). Also, since you were confident in your calls, that must be you've had some strong readings of V hand strength; which is hard to see when getting info of a live hand through videos. Appreciate your feedback. Cheers!
I'm not sure I would have called on the turn but I don't understand B art's reasoning. He's like "there isn't many 8s in villains range". But what about other cards? if someone has a 5 what kind of 2 cards is that? 56? 57? Those are 2 pairs, what about 6s? What kind of sixes are they likely to have? Well 56 (2 pair), 67 (2 pair), maybe even 68 suited (straight). What about 7s? What kind of 7s would villain have? Probably 76 (2 pair) 5 7 (2 pair) 7 8 (straight). There are so many combos that could be crushing hero he seems to think 8 is the only issue.
I was thinking 22-44. J10 has a chance to catch up with a J or 10 on the river, and if the river is an 8, he has a cooler hand that can stack hero. I'd be more likely to check-back with J10. So this looks like 22-44 trying to take it down on the turn or praying for an 8 on the river so he can chop.
I don’t think 22 or 44 have to turn hands into bluffs on turn since hero can still have a lot of AK, AQ. I can get on board though with 22 and 44 turning into bluffs some of the time.
@@a_canal I mean...villain mucked, so he had to be turning something into a bluff. I can see doing it with 22-44 or JT. Both seem like hands that might get raised and call a 3B pre. Neither 22-44 or JT has much showdown value against a pair, but at least J10 can make the nuts or a higher pair than top pair, whereas 22-44 is hoping to beat A-high or hoping to chop. J10 has better implied odds if the river is an 8. Against hero's pre-flop 3-bet range, neither 22-44 or J10 is doing very well, so both are going to want to bluff when hero checks turn. It's really just a matter of what hands villain thinks are bluff candidates. Under-pairs and over-connectors both seem reasonable, if villain is going to take a stab at it. I wouldn't want to take J-high or 22-44 to showdown, if I opened pre and the 3B'er checked to me on this turn. I'd want to bet either and try to take down the pot right there. Really could take this line with over-connectors and under-pairs.
Haven’t seen the results or read the comments. I’m snapping off that jam at the end. From what I’ve learned from Bart, that kinda bet is saying I have a full house and I don’t think he does. Seems like overs trying to get a weak one pair holding off their hand.
I agree with @Philly112. A lot of players are jamming 8x here. They're only losing to 10-8 and rivered boats. Hero shouldn't be 3-betting pre with 10-8. He should be barreling the turn with most of his flopped sets, and he doesn't have very many turned 2-pair combos that are 3-bet pre and then full on the river. It's really just 1 combo of 5-6 suited. If villain raised turn with an 8, hero should be betting from up front with his rivered boats.
What would you think of turning 9x into a bluff on the river to try to put max pressure on 8x? Might be a spot where the texture changes enough to consider leading, Hero probably has more sets than villain who might be under value betting them on the turn.
He's probably not 3 betting from the straddle with 77 or 66 all that often and I really doubt he's checking them on the turn. Folding an 8 on the river as the villain would be horrifically bad.
It’s not the hardest call in the world. Easiest way to spot the bluff in my opinion is only full houses are going all in on that board pairing five. Based on the way the hand was played, if you don’t think your opponent had a set you have to put in the call. Can’t let money scare you.
No sir. He is not required unless he wants a shot at winning the pot. He probably had an ace high holding and to save face just threw it into the muck. You only have to show if you think your hand can win the pot. If your bluff gets called and you know there’s zero chance your hand is good your not required to show and can just award your opponent the pot.
You can always just muck your cards if you want, since it went to showdown anyone at the table could request to see the cards of either the caller/better, but they have to call the floor and it's a dick move
Depends on exact rules. He can muck and depending if room allows the cards to be retrieved and shown when you ask. Etiquette wise though, when someone blasts off with a bluff, gets called, and says "you're good," the polite thing to do is table your cards and collect the pot without making them show. Over the past couple decades though, I'm seeing this courtesy less and less honored. And poker etiquette in general just not being honored. Not saying that's good or bad, just an observation. Personally, I will just table my hand when someone says "you're good" until they do something like think they are losing with something like bottom two pair and I just called with top pair. As IMO "you're good" basically means they were bluffing with no pair. Once that happens with a player, I no longer honor the "you're good" and let them table or muck their cards. If they muck, I don't turn mine over and just collect the pot.
@@Solving_Live_Poker any room that rules he doesn't have to show is simply wrong. Not that I'd ever ask. But also, you should wait a sec. That's an easy angle we shouldn't reward if he says you're good but doesn't muck.
Seems like hero made a mistake by checking the turn, which invites the villain to start a bluff. It sucks to have to barrel the turn with TPTK with a one-liner on board, but he can bet 1/3 pot again, and put pressure on all of villain's hands that aren't straights. If hero bets 1/3 and gets raised, he can just fold the turn. Most opponents aren't going to raise that turn as a bluff.
You’re not really allowed to bet turn here because you have so little (no?) 8x. Maybe just A8s, 89s, and 78s? Pocket 88’s is probably better as a flat.
@@Gos1234567 Hero could have raised with over-pairs, 99, 88, 89, 78, and A8. Villain isn't going to raise turn without a very strong hand when hero raises pre, bets flop, and barrels turn. Villain bet turn as a bluff when hero checked, then mucked river, so whatever he had, it probably wasn't strong enough to raise turn if hero continued to bet. When hero slows down on a scary turn card, he induces villain to start a bluff. If he's going to call turn and river, he might as well continue to bet turn.
My assumption used to Be only house wins in raked games. I need help I’m going to be put into one of these games. It’s the only way I’m getting my money back from someone that owes me money( like rampage brought up on his Twitter). Should I just play tight or not play any hands and lose some money based on the rake of blinds I fold.. and what’s minimum time you have to stay he told me 4 hours. This is in NYC btw. I haven’t gotten my money in over a year and this my only shot. I’m not a bad player it’s just the game is alittle out of my comfort zone in terms of size . Any advice?
@@godwin0605 blocks 97? where have you learnt that? Do you know that there are more than TWO nines in the deck? . He blocks 97 but no blocking A high at the same time?
@@BamaNickyour comment is based entirely on the fact that you know that hero has a 9. 97 is a mandatory bluff, it blocks boats and loses to 30 combos of overpairs, it would be a huge mistake to check that hand on the river. Additional nice property is that, on the off chance that the other guy has a 9 and wants to make a GTO call, as was the case in here, 97 beats all top pairs.
I would have folded on the turn. I'd put the villain as being very likely to have a pocket pair, and all of the pocket pairs (other than 4s through 2s) are an overpair, a straight, or a set. I can't see any bluffs here other than J-10. I don't think that he's doing this with an Ace high bluff. I definitely agree with the caller saying he'd fold Jacks or 10s on the river.
But yeah, it's pretty hard to put someone on a range that would call a 3 bet with two players behind preflop. I think it's heavily weighted towards pocket pairs, rather than suited connectors or suited Aces, but it's hard to say.
Gutsy call which i dont think i am able to make . In most cases im just check/folding turn . Kudos for nice bluff catch
As you move up stakes you find people do bluff, and some people bluff too much.
@@karlinchinago to Texas, they bluff at the 1-2 games all the time.
@@JazzYachtrocker
By the turn, you are behind literally everything. You're behind all medium pairs, which make either Sets or straights, and you're behind all overpairs.
Hard to imagine the villain taking that line with over pairs. More likely to be sets, a few straights and some pairs with straight draw.
Yeah im literally snap/check folding turn in such case probably
Literally
@@srlim I am talking about the turn. The river does make things weirder, but I would never have arrived at river.
🎯 you’re essentially just bluff catching on the turn. Hero is being results oriented in his explanations imo. Blockers can be a great tool, but they’re overanalyzed at times. He keeps talking about having the 9 as a blocker, but his Ace also blocks his opponents Ace-high bluffs.
I hear a lot of players try to justify bad play because they unblock/block 1 specific combination out of 16 or something, and they put entirely way too much weight into that.
It’s like calling a 5 bet all in preflop with A-K and are shocked when opponent has AA or KK, because we blocked those.
Gotta make up for that extra time rake
Nothing like punting 200 BB’s to make up for a little rake
@@johnnyBuz072 im dead loool
Caller is results oriented. It’s a bad call. Only thing he beats is jack ten. Only calling this vs a maniac who would float the flop with king queen and stuff like that. Many more combinations of value hands than bluffs. Bet you this caller wouldn’t phone in if villain showed7,8 suited
I'm guessing villain was trying to make overpairs fold. Nice bluff catch. Sometimes psychology is even more important than the runout
Rivers Des Plaines is my Favorite Poker Room. I drive from out of State to play there. It's a Great Room.
Scary call but I think is totally profitable. Villain just calling on the flop and then blasting after reading heros turn check as weak. Bluffing on boards like this is horrible on 3 bet pots, because is very easy to bluff catch with just a pair, the usual ranges dont connect well with this board.
I am not sure how medium pairs not connecting with this board and they are most likely in there
Not sure where you learned to count combos but there are:
- 11 combos of boats+
- 12 combos of straights
- 6 combos of TT he may be turning into a bluff
I'd love to know what @CrushLivePoker thinks hero should do on the turn with his flopped sets (99, 77, 66). Do we continue to bet turn with our flopped sets, or check-call turn, and then make a game-time decision about what to do depending on the river? If we're supposed to check-call turn, are we check-folding to a bet when the river is a brick, or check-calling, or block-betting? Bart seems to hate check-calling rivers, check-folding all our sets on a brick seems too nitty, and going bet flop-check turn-block bet river seems like it might be an easily exploitable line for any aware opponent. It seems like hero's line here with top pair should be more pot-control oriented, like check/call flop, check/fold turn. With flopped sets, I guess he's supposed to go check/call, check/call, then use a mixed strategy of block-bet / over-bet / check-raise river, maybe?
Bet turn. It's like a Test betting. x turn would induce the bluff easily. Particularly with LAGs. They'd see x as a weakness and start pounding. Then you cannot know whether it's a bluff (bet) or value call (straight). Just keep guessing...Horrible situation to be in. I like when I pay for info. Once I pay, I know I got peace of mind.
Bart and caller seem to be forgetting villain could also be turning JJ/TT into a bluff trying to fold out QQ+ when thinking it’s better to have 9x here.
Villain isn't taking this line with JJ and TT because those hands have so much SDV on the turn that turning it to a bluff makes no sense. Any of the SDV hands that beat you are not going to turn themselves into a bluff lol
@@timothynguyen4446 how does JJ/TT have SDV vs. QQ+?
This was really interesting. Bart's explanation of A9 blocking hands like 99 or 98 does make sense to me. But doesn't villain have some over-pairs here? Or are we assuming TT & JJ are usually 4 betting pre? I actually liked the caller's thinking that maybe his holding TT or JJ might be folds because of blocking villain holding something like JT.
In the end, I don't think I'm calling with A9 here and folding AA or KK. At least partly because of the river pairing. It seems like there is enough counterfeiting of villain 2 pairs, as well as beating something like TT that did not 4 bet pre.
H CS! is the explanation for whole hand. You cannot bluff a CS! Poor V.
@@pot_kivach160 Your post caused me to re-watch the video. I think people would describe me as somewhat nitty. I'd be fine here either way on the turn. Hero can easily be beat, but also as an above average hand. I cannot really see folding the river here though. Anyways, no one would ever say I'm a calling station & I'd call here with at least some frequency. Partly because it's hard for me to fold the perfect river card. Maybe perfect is a strong word, but only an A, 9, or 5 improves our hand. So it's a great card for us.
@EllieBanks333 I just thought it was overcalling on 2 streets. Sorry, didn't mean to insult. Perhaps, should've chosen different wording instead (overcalling, etc).
Also, since you were confident in your calls, that must be you've had some strong readings of V hand strength; which is hard to see when getting info of a live hand through videos.
Appreciate your feedback. Cheers!
I'm not sure I would have called on the turn but I don't understand B art's reasoning. He's like "there isn't many 8s in villains range". But what about other cards? if someone has a 5 what kind of 2 cards is that? 56? 57? Those are 2 pairs, what about 6s? What kind of sixes are they likely to have? Well 56 (2 pair), 67 (2 pair), maybe even 68 suited (straight). What about 7s? What kind of 7s would villain have? Probably 76 (2 pair) 5 7 (2 pair) 7 8 (straight). There are so many combos that could be crushing hero he seems to think 8 is the only issue.
I get the logic, but I see people overplay over pairs all the time. I’d rather have AA and kk to call with.
This was a good one.
Villain had JT most likely. Callers logic is sound when he says he would fold TT or JJ here
I was thinking 22-44. J10 has a chance to catch up with a J or 10 on the river, and if the river is an 8, he has a cooler hand that can stack hero. I'd be more likely to check-back with J10. So this looks like 22-44 trying to take it down on the turn or praying for an 8 on the river so he can chop.
I don’t think 22 or 44 have to turn hands into bluffs on turn since hero can still have a lot of AK, AQ. I can get on board though with 22 and 44 turning into bluffs some of the time.
@@a_canal I mean...villain mucked, so he had to be turning something into a bluff. I can see doing it with 22-44 or JT. Both seem like hands that might get raised and call a 3B pre. Neither 22-44 or JT has much showdown value against a pair, but at least J10 can make the nuts or a higher pair than top pair, whereas 22-44 is hoping to beat A-high or hoping to chop. J10 has better implied odds if the river is an 8. Against hero's pre-flop 3-bet range, neither 22-44 or J10 is doing very well, so both are going to want to bluff when hero checks turn. It's really just a matter of what hands villain thinks are bluff candidates. Under-pairs and over-connectors both seem reasonable, if villain is going to take a stab at it. I wouldn't want to take J-high or 22-44 to showdown, if I opened pre and the 3B'er checked to me on this turn. I'd want to bet either and try to take down the pot right there. Really could take this line with over-connectors and under-pairs.
I put the Villain on Ace 10, or King 10. Jack 10 is very possible as well.
I used to play at Horseshoe Hammond with Captain Ki all the time.
What about hero check shoving turn ?
Villain finds ir hard to call with trips , no?😊
The worst is when you puke and sigh call at the same time...
Can someone explain why 9-X is better than having KK or AA? I feel like villain could of easily had 10’s or JJ
I think Bart assumes JJ/1010 4 bet pre flop not flat
@@lv20213 No not at all! Those hands are not 4 betting a BB squeeze!
Because 9-x blocks full houses containing a 9.If you had AA/KK V could have 3 combos of 99 instead of just one.
Haven’t seen the results or read the comments. I’m snapping off that jam at the end. From what I’ve learned from Bart, that kinda bet is saying I have a full house and I don’t think he does. Seems like overs trying to get a weak one pair holding off their hand.
I was correct.
Bro an 8 jams here too all day ….
I agree with @Philly112. A lot of players are jamming 8x here. They're only losing to 10-8 and rivered boats. Hero shouldn't be 3-betting pre with 10-8. He should be barreling the turn with most of his flopped sets, and he doesn't have very many turned 2-pair combos that are 3-bet pre and then full on the river. It's really just 1 combo of 5-6 suited. If villain raised turn with an 8, hero should be betting from up front with his rivered boats.
@@a_canal Yes and i think there are way more 8s than Bart says,98s/87s/A8s all possible
@@mepmep27 you should go pro. Right away!
Can someone explain why he would fold 10s and Jacks but he's calling with a pair of 9s?
I am a bit new
What would you think of turning 9x into a bluff on the river to try to put max pressure on 8x? Might be a spot where the texture changes enough to consider leading, Hero probably has more sets than villain who might be under value betting them on the turn.
He's probably not 3 betting from the straddle with 77 or 66 all that often and I really doubt he's checking them on the turn. Folding an 8 on the river as the villain would be horrifically bad.
I don't think a straight folds to a river shove. It would be too much assuming H has a full house from straddle 3bet pre on this board.
I am either poor or have no balls bc there's zero chance I'm calling that
It’s not the hardest call in the world. Easiest way to spot the bluff in my opinion is only full houses are going all in on that board pairing five. Based on the way the hand was played, if you don’t think your opponent had a set you have to put in the call. Can’t let money scare you.
@@mepmep27 8 should be totally jamming on pairing river bcs u dont have much medium pairs 3betting except maybe 99 and not all of players have 99 even
@@mepmep27 very well deduced
If the hero called villain´s bet on the river, isn´t villain obligated to show his hand?
No sir. He is not required unless he wants a shot at winning the pot. He probably had an ace high holding and to save face just threw it into the muck.
You only have to show if you think your hand can win the pot. If your bluff gets called and you know there’s zero chance your hand is good your not required to show and can just award your opponent the pot.
You can always just muck your cards if you want, since it went to showdown anyone at the table could request to see the cards of either the caller/better, but they have to call the floor and it's a dick move
@@mepmep27 You can absolutely ask to see them as long as they're retrievable, most people just don't.
Depends on exact rules. He can muck and depending if room allows the cards to be retrieved and shown when you ask.
Etiquette wise though, when someone blasts off with a bluff, gets called, and says "you're good," the polite thing to do is table your cards and collect the pot without making them show.
Over the past couple decades though, I'm seeing this courtesy less and less honored. And poker etiquette in general just not being honored. Not saying that's good or bad, just an observation.
Personally, I will just table my hand when someone says "you're good" until they do something like think they are losing with something like bottom two pair and I just called with top pair. As IMO "you're good" basically means they were bluffing with no pair. Once that happens with a player, I no longer honor the "you're good" and let them table or muck their cards. If they muck, I don't turn mine over and just collect the pot.
@@Solving_Live_Poker any room that rules he doesn't have to show is simply wrong. Not that I'd ever ask. But also, you should wait a sec. That's an easy angle we shouldn't reward if he says you're good but doesn't muck.
Now what if this was 1/2 and not 5/5
i must be lost…why are we ever folding AA or KK there?
i personally probably dont even make it to the river myself, but the logic of loving holding the 9 is you block 89 combos. AA and KK dont.
Seems like hero made a mistake by checking the turn, which invites the villain to start a bluff. It sucks to have to barrel the turn with TPTK with a one-liner on board, but he can bet 1/3 pot again, and put pressure on all of villain's hands that aren't straights. If hero bets 1/3 and gets raised, he can just fold the turn. Most opponents aren't going to raise that turn as a bluff.
You’re not really allowed to bet turn here because you have so little (no?) 8x. Maybe just A8s, 89s, and 78s? Pocket 88’s is probably better as a flat.
Why wouldnt they raise the trun,theyre not gonna believe you 3 bet pre from the bb with an 8
@@Gos1234567 Hero could have raised with over-pairs, 99, 88, 89, 78, and A8. Villain isn't going to raise turn without a very strong hand when hero raises pre, bets flop, and barrels turn. Villain bet turn as a bluff when hero checked, then mucked river, so whatever he had, it probably wasn't strong enough to raise turn if hero continued to bet. When hero slows down on a scary turn card, he induces villain to start a bluff. If he's going to call turn and river, he might as well continue to bet turn.
My assumption used to
Be only house wins in raked games. I need help I’m going to be put into one of these games. It’s the only way I’m getting my money back from someone that owes me money( like rampage brought up on his Twitter). Should I just play tight or not play any hands and lose some money based on the rake of blinds I fold.. and what’s minimum time you have to stay he told me 4 hours. This is in NYC btw. I haven’t gotten my money in over a year and this my only shot. I’m not a bad player it’s just the game is alittle out of my comfort zone in terms of size . Any advice?
You lose to 97…
He blocks 9 7, and is villian calling 3bet pre flop with 2 ppl behind left to act with 9 7?
@@godwin0605 Why not?They are no threat as no raise pre,only button IP over him.
@@godwin0605
blocks 97? where have you learnt that? Do you know that there are more than TWO nines in the deck?
.
He blocks 97 but no blocking A high at the same time?
@@pot_kivach160yes, he blocks 97. You should learn poker terminology, instead of mocking someone, when it is actually you who is wrong.
I’m about 3/4 through the hand but don’t see how we can rule out TT or JJ. I think I’d fire if I were in V’s position with those hands as well.
97 wasn’t counterfeited, 7 still plays. So only 76 was counterfeited.
Also 97 should never jam here unless by a total goofball who doesn’t understand counterfeiting.
The 7s aren’t counterfeited but an overpair now has a better two pair.
97 is counterfeited as it is now beat by all overpairs that Hero is representing (AA-TT)
It was counterfeited because it loses to overpairs
@@BamaNickyour comment is based entirely on the fact that you know that hero has a 9. 97 is a mandatory bluff, it blocks boats and loses to 30 combos of overpairs, it would be a huge mistake to check that hand on the river. Additional nice property is that, on the off chance that the other guy has a 9 and wants to make a GTO call, as was the case in here, 97 beats all top pairs.
It's really all downhill from the small ass flop bet once you like invite all those hands in that way it's harder to determine where to go from there
Big time wrong answer. Small flop bets are the gold standard for almost a decade now.