Food and Faith: 1 - Mythology and Mythbusting
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ก.พ. 2024
- A while ago, I had the opportunity to have a freewheeling 3-hour chat with Devdutt Pattanaik where we discussed the intersection of food, science and faith in the Indian context.
With close to a million follwers across different social media platforms, I have, willingly or unwillingly, earned a reputation of being a "mythbuster". I am regularly told that I am anti-national and that I have no appreciation or respect for the traditional faiths of this country. I am also seen as someone who is against Ayurveda. Somehow social media tends to create these hard binaries and force fit people into echo chambers.
For sure, I am against the application of obsolete ideas if they are not experimentally/scientifically valid in a modern context - that applies to ayurveda, unani, Siddha or Homoeopathy. But at the same time, I am absolutely onboard with this idea that people cannot dismiss a holistic system of wellness that has helped them survive for centuries.
And I found that the ideas of Devdutt Pattanaik provide a sensible framework for being scientific while still being able to appreciate the abstract symbolic nature of mythology, and be open to both appreciating it and criticising some of its worst harms (like casteist bias and misogyny)
Food and Faith and inextricably connected in India. There is no religious ritual without food. Food habits are central to everyone's identity.
Part 1: explores the simple question: Why do we use the word "myth" to describe things that are factually untrue?
Devdutt Pattanaik's books: www.amazon.in/Books-Devdutt-P...
Masala Lab (Hardcover): www.amazon.in/Masala-Lab-Scie...
Masala Lab (Paperback): www.amazon.in/Masala-Lab-Scie...
TH-cam (English): / @krishashok
TH-cam (Tamil): / @masalalabtamil
Instagram: / _masalalab
Twitter: / krishashok
Nice conversation! Keep them coming, Krish.
Sad to see people unsubscribing though, I wish they would understand the world isn’t built around their point of view. And that the key to wisdom is to have the courage to understand and maybe even accept a point of view that’s different from theirs.
It's food for thought, our eating habits represent our history, our geography & culture, kudos to Krish sir for bringing multi perspectives together
Where is the full podcast?
Wow.. This is dream combo.. Two people I follow coming together..
I am so happy to listen this. We are flawed creatures and it is really peaceful to embrace it.....
Where can I watch the full video?
4:58 "so long as it's not harmful to people, it's OK" This qualifier is everything. Kris, I am reminded of a column that you wrote way back in 2013 in The Hindu, titled 'Move on with tradition'. In it, you expressed the same sentiment: "As long as traditions don’t do us any harm, they don’t need scientific validation to be relevant." I reached out to you after reading this article and shared a blog post that I had written about cooking up scientific justifications for traditions. In my blog post, I too had expressed the same sentiment: "This practice of inventing reasons that sound scientific for harmless age old customs seems totally unnecessary to me."
As Dr. Abby Philips will tell you, Ayurveda as an academic curiosity doesn't qualify under this standard of harm that your guest and you have articulated. It is when it offers solutions to real issues that it becomes a problem. The more interesting question, or meta-question if you will, is whether the system's proponents will have any use for it if it did not offer solutions!
I am absolutely with you. We do discuss this further in the full conversation. If a treatment is unscientific and it prevents someone from getting evidence based care, it is harmful. But here, belief that food has prana and that therefore you will not eat X as a cultural habit is not something I can counter with science. It wont work
@@krishashok Agree. I am just adding that it never stops at 'prana'. Unlike, say, the theory of humours (which at present is nothing more than a historical artifact), there is always a "And so..." Those claims are scientifically assailable.
@@wneo7 Of course! But if science is purely seen as this amoral "facts dont care for your feelings" endeavour, it fails in change management.
@@krishashokit doesn't stop with people not eating that particular food,it goes onto discrimination of people who are eating that food and even to the extension of mob violence.The people who also comes to power with these beliefs also stops others from eating that food.For example there are states in india where egg is not provided in schools because of these "harmless beliefs " of the people and people shutting down meat shops on the hindu auspicious days (which keeps increasing day by day).
My point is these beliefs doesn't exist and stops at individual level,it affects others too.
@@krishashok Your statement seems more an exercise in pragmatism than anything else. I am of course inclined to agree. I will reserve further comment until the rest of the parts of this conversations are aired.
I cannot prove that I brushed my teeth yesterday, this doesn't mean that I didn't brush yesterday. By this definition of mythology(as mentioned in this video)almost all of history can be termed as mythology.
Unless something can be scientifically established as false should not be termed as false or myth.
Faith can be said to be beyond the scope of science or at most unscientific but not False or Mythology.
Apart from this disagreement sir I have liked all your other videos, please keep doing this great work
I usually don’t comment on comments. But I must say history and mythology are two different subjects all together. Mythologies too have historical values to understand ancient societies, cultures and languages.
History is evidence based. If you ever walk in a history museum you will find, how the generations of archaeologists, scientists and historians came together to study, test , hypothesise and validate every historical information out in the world today. Sometimes the hypotheses have changed with new technologies, new findings, new genetic studies. But still evidence based.
On the other hand mythologies across the world are ancient tales passed down to generations often changing and evolving. From Nordic, Greek, biblical to Indian mythologies, every culture and country has its own unique tales.
@@AnirimaGhosh Scientific studies and historians are nothing but a tool of propoganda. In American during 70s and 80s the corportaitons funded research studies that said sugar does not cause harm to people so the sugar lobbies can make money, similarly Britishers published studies in India saying smoking is actually good for health similarly Nazi regime published scientific studies that showed racial superiority is real and should b used as a basis for discrimination. Similarly Historians in India which wrote our books are nothing but a propogandist tool that was used by erstwhile governments to brainwash Indian and adopt ideals that are foreign to India way of living. Similarly truth is ever evolving and nothing which was brainwashed to Indians can be taken prima facie
Customs and traditions shape a myth.. and it is a product of time... Similarly Scientific understanding and a logical perspective is also a product of time that comes with reasoning... The best way to move forward is to synergize the two and weigh the mutualism and compatibility of the two together.. looking forward to hear more of this collaboration 👍
Beautifully done, Krish. Looking forward to the entire conversation. Thank you, Devdutt.
Where can I find full episode on TH-cam?
I used to hate Devdutt Patnaik for his seemingly anti social demeanor sometimes. But when I understood his core value system concepts of individual identity through his "my Gita" book in 2020, my outlook to life itself changed. It's a very unsettling shift in perspectives of morality.
society is not vedic hindus from Varansi only .
Krish sir.. Waiting for the next part..
This is promising to be very interesting, Krish. I've enjoyed listening to and reading Devdutt Patnaik and in more recent times I've been listen8ngto you and enjoying both the perspectives you provide and your style. I look forward to more videos of your interactions!
Very well explained, thanks. Could you please clarify whether the following carbs are healthy? 1 Home baked roti made from millet flour. 2 items made using split grains of wheat (not wheat flour).
Thanks
Carbs come in a spectrum - from refined to less refined, high to low GI. The 2 choices are relatively better from a GI and fiber standpoint
Where can I find the entire conversation plz? Is it available online?
will be posting it part by part
@@krishashok thanks. Looking forward to it.
Hi krish, excellent work!!! Keep going. The very fact that gobarheads have come to do mutravisarjan on comments section is a validation that you are doing the right things. Keep going brother!!!
Devdutt is one of the shining lights of reason that we have. And seeing you two talking together just made my day. Eagerly waiting for the next parts.
WAIT! I just realized I have your book! Masala Lab! great book!
Thank you
Best collab, i regularly follow both of you. It is kind of dream combo for me.
After kneading the dough can we store in fridge and use next day ?
It wont make any difference if you are talking about health.. But why would you want to do that? you lose the affects of kneading..
@@AP-eb8hd actually it is easy for working ladies to knead at night and use it next day morning, it saves time in the morning but I heard refrigerated dough causes gases.
@@Syeda-angelsyes u can definitely store the dough in the fridge for 2 days...I've been kneading and storing it in fridge for so many years as it's very time saving.and no gas issues here.
@@foodknowledge5271 🙏
@@AP-eb8hd 🙏
Nice conversation, Do you plan to upload the 3 hour conversation you mentioned early on in the video?
At some point yes
Very much needed video. Pls, keep them posting 👍
I love your program, but my question is different. Where do you get your t-shirts from ?
Parvathi is revered as the mother of rice. She is known as the makam (regulus) pirranna (born) manka (virgin).
This is great, love your work.Thank you so much ,subscribed this gold 🌞 🌞 🌞 🌞 🌞 channel
Thank you
@@krishashok welcome 😁
Even though I am am a ardent follower of Krishashok the moment I read the comment Devdutt Pattanaik has made a comment against humanity , closed the upload from seeing
Why did you invite the person who does not have integrity??
shuuuuuuu
Next Topic "Packing hot food in plastic causes cancer"
There is a lot ot paranoid videos on detox and especially parasites. That everyone has them..Can you make a video on to bust the myth
Please make one video on poppy seeds, the importance and implications
Will do!
@@krishashok Thank you sir
Great 👍🏻 looking frwrd for ur wonderful content 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
Richard Dawkins is a great inspiration indeed !!!!! ❤
(152) When I was living in New Zealand I had a paramour who was born in Calcutta (this back in the '80s) and he was a pretty good sport when it came to food. He was Hindu, and the only things he would not eat were beef (fair enough) and he had this really bad attitude when it came to peppermint/mint flavored candy.
+1 I hate mint. From my experience people react in binary to mint, either you love it or you hate it.
@@vjayvenkat Well, he just seemed to hate candy made with it; he LOVED it as a garnish, or in a raiata. FRESH, raw mint. Mind you, I don't mind using coriander seeds in my curries, but NOT the fresh stuff. I'm the guy that gets that "soap" flavour from it.
Mint reminds me of Toothpaste 😅in fact my family usually doesn't have mint or pudina
My husband and his family on the other hand love it😂
Superb! Looking forward to the entire series.
Read Osho Krish?
😊😊😊
2 of my fav people who shatter myths. I like!
Somebody's truth? Does it also not fall under "false" category?😅
scientifically yes. I think the point is that for a lot of people, it is still important.
@@rajmohan1070 Perosonal, political, ideological and conscientious truths are, in an absolutist sense, not scientific truths I agree but I think it will be arrogant to deny their importance to people.
Can you make video on alkaline water
What the heck is ‘alkaline water’?
He already made it in collaboration with science is dope
Celebs promoting those black water is one type of alkaline waterb
@@electrondynamics9721 can you pin the link here so that I can read or watch
I find the idea of respecting ayurveda as a form of treatment in the 21st century as a reprehensible and an ignorant idea. Where Evidence based medicine or Modern Medicine wipes the floor with it, not to mention how it can potentially be lethal for some.
I wish you could elaborate in the future about your thoughts and understanding of such holistic schools of 'healing'. As I feel, a well read and a curious mind like yours should be thinking otherwise.
For a less simple view of myth, you can read Joseph Campbell’s 1949’s The Hero with a Thousand Faces book.
Since its release in 1949, The Hero with a Thousand Faces has influenced millions of readers by combining the insights of modern psychology with Joseph Campbell's revolutionary understanding of comparative mythology. In these pages, Campbell outlines the Hero's Journey, a universal motif of adventure and transformation that runs through virtually all of the world's mythic traditions. He also explores the Cosmogonic Cycle, the mythic pattern of world creation and destruction.
Yes, Ive read that, but I also think Joseph Campbell brings a very western, binary, hard archetype view of mythology that eastern faiths dont fit neatly into
@@krishashok Oh, I thought he had non-binary view of myth. By saying myth is all untruth and science is all truth then you have a binary view, but he doesn’t say such things. In general he says all myths contain certain truths regarding the origins and heroes of every and each culture. Deep intuitive truths so old it was not possible to wrote it down without stories and the well wishes of such civilizations. One wouldn’t agree with this view just if one is a religious fundamentalist accepting the way stories in old religious scriptures ARE truth as they are told. TMHO.
@@Alrixa I'll pass on reading that. I have no desire to mentally tie myself into a huge knot with some overworked opinion.
@@krishashokFirstly, what is the argument basis to state that “western thought” is binary and “Indian thought is not “binary”! This is definitely not true for Indian religion and Indian philosophy for the past 20 centuries, where binary logic has played a big role in Nyāya, Vaisheshika, mimāmsa, Buddhist and Jain logics. If Indians were not logic and didn’t use binary logic they couldn’t have been contributing as much as they did for the history of mathematics. This indeed seems like a huge myth. Secondly, there seems to be a confusion between a technical definition of mythos and the popular “idea” of myth! Mythos never had any connotation of falsehood, not true for Indian mythology and not true for “western mythologies”. What most of the times people called myths and specially Indians tend to call mythology, that which people can’t justify and has simply not historically proved. Basically pseudo-science or proto-science has no intrinsic relation to mythology! Faith, costumes, historical usages are not the same as mythos!
A "Conservative" is an individual who has a healthy respect for the inherited wisdom of our elders. You may be one.
Btw I do think that concepts such as God are measurable. You may want to listen to Tom Woods's podcast episode titled "Are you a dummy for believing in God" where he outlines the first of five methods to prove God's existence through philosophical reasoning. Enjoy!
I am not a conservative. I’m someone who enjoys speaking to people with a wide range of ideas
@@krishashok To be a Conservative does not mean you don't listen and learn. However the Conservative brand, as demonstrated in politics at least, has not necessarily lived up to its name. So I do understand the apprehension.
Full video would be better and then u can create shorts
Devdutt is usually found to show reality of charlatans like Sadhguru. Hence the hate. Keep going Krish, the garbage followers are kicking themselves out 😂
He himself is no less than the self proclaimed Sadhguru !
Is "myth" somehow related to the word "mithya"?
Yes and this term is deliberately used to refer to the Indic religious texts but never with biblical text.
@@thecomment9489 The Biblical stories are also myths, sure much like the Itihasas they may be located in actual places and (to a limited extent) may refer to actual people, but it does not change the fact that both are essentially myths and NOT history. The point or importance of the Itihasas does not lie in their historicity or lack thereof but rather it lies in their value as scripture and their tremendous cultural impact over generations in our country. They are as much history as Thucydides' account of the Greco-Persian Wars, which is not much but that is not the point of reading the epics anyway as mentioned before.
@@dhribbler7303 Nonsense.
@@thecomment9489 You don't have much of a point do you? Except riling people up. Expected, one cannot convince the convinced like you.
@@dhribbler7303 There is no point to make the nonsense people. 🙄🙄🙄🙄
. None of them have academic expertise in the areas they are known for. So their interpretation of data might be personal and amateurish. But then again, public intellectuals are more for fun than actual insight
Pattnaik, whom I initially admired a lot, turned out to be sadly someone who did a "rip off" of mythology with his fluff and imagination running wild; and today seems to have shades of political mandering too.
Krish saying he's scientific espousing Pattnaik is on thin ice and thin eyes!
This shows somewhere krish is either falling short to find right experts or getting into the lines of peddling LIEs(Limited Ideas Entertained).
Devdutt is mostly hallow from a research stand point particularly when it comes to understanding ancient scriptures and Indian Iconography. If you are able to market well doesnt mean what you speak is either truth or you are knowedgeable.
He has found the right experts as such. Problem is with you who cannot comprehend.. Deal with it..
Boss...for me...ur credibility..as a TH-camr/podcaster has gone done a few notches the moment u had this charlatan on yr show..and to cap it all, u even wear on ur sleeve ur admiration for this man!
Someday..u will recall this comment of mine and it will reaonate deeply
..until then..may God give good sense to all
Ok boss. If you think credibility on food science is predicated on who I have a conversation with, enjoy your life (the unfollow button is right there)
@@krishashok😂😂😂 too good a response sir
Are you follower of periyar ideology?
I don't associate ideas with individuals. I focus on the ideas themselves, so if your question was "do you believe in social justice, breaking the worst aspects of the caste system and empowerment/equality of women", yes. The problem with this social media style "guilt-by-association" logic is that it lacks empathy for the individual. When someone says "I follow person X" and then you dont like person X, you then automatically also dislike that someone. This is silly. On the other hand - I subscribe to a lot of ideas that I have heard from a lot of people and my ideas change as I grow up and change
2 of my heroes! 🤩
I looking for pattanaik to talks that braminical and see non-binary, for me he is most binary speaker.
This guy of all people?
I speak to everyone. If you have a problem with my choice. of who i have aconversation with, the pause button is but one click away
@@krishashokHave whoever you want! I thought your channel was about food, science, health and culture none of which the guest is known for.
His PR was pretty strong for a long time and not only me but giants like Future group were sold. Something now tells me he is here because of his problematic and outrightly bigoted views and not despite it.
@@Valkyier911ok
Science is for all.... If you don't believe in science, you can quit these channels.
Krish I don't know if you are aware of it but devdutt has made some really hateful and casteist remarks against marginalized castes. Please don't platform people like him.
tell me more, not aware, google doesn't seem to help
"I disapprove of what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - S G Tallentyre
"If liberty means anything at all, it is right to tell people what they do not want to hear" -George Orwell
We’re humans. We err. Cancelling people does more harm than good.
Not only that he has regularly abused people very nastily on Twitter, esp. with sexist slurs and abusing mother/father of people, this in addition to being a charlatan and making many mistakes related to his field.
There is a difference between how media/social media representation and interpretations of clickbait statements and lengthy conversations with the full human being. I suggest it's better to focus on whether this 3 hour conversation proves your assessment or not.
We are here for ideas.. Information.. Not for personal relation or Judgemental comments..
That’s the internet for you. Some people fail to distinguish between individuals and ideas
@@krishashokDefinitely......but, those ideas should have some standards of credibility, unlike what this PR guy does !
Oh... your expert uru is devdaitya patnaik... now I understand your Lmodern logic"
He is a pseudo intellectual but good at oratory, that’s it
all scientists r western please boycott western inventions n discoveries..just belive in our BHRAMIN DHARMA hINDU DHARMA MODI VISHNU AVTAR jai nirmal sitharaman bhramin
Bye
By reading comments, this devdutt guy seems to be a right wing cleanser ..Good
Yeah..He regularly pisses off these Sanghis! That's why the outrage.
@@skpaanda Yeah , Could see
@@RafaelB-zv4zdYeah....and it could also be seen from ur comment that u can be associated with trash people and their narratives just because they suit your own ideology !
Unsubscribed your channel
@krishashok a lot of times that I watched your videos I could not agree with some of the things you said, but still watched with the hope of knowing different perspectives, not anymore, Mr. Pattnaik is a guest here, am out
Ok! Enjoy!
🤦🏻 Everything is Science buddy. It's just that....things which we cannot explain now.....we haven't been able to reach that intelligence level and discover the science behind it.
Science, Art and Philosophy/Spirituality have been intertwined across cultures since the dawn of civilization. All three are important corner stones of a culture. Accepting one and denying others only diminishes the human experience.
Sure we'll understand more as the generations pass, but if we stick purely to science, we'll turn into depressed zombies
I was hoping you would just stick to the food part but I guess I should have known better. Anyway, it was good while it lasted. Thanks for everything.
I didn't realize my topics of interest were circumscribed by your shallow social-media stereotype of me. If this is all this takes, enjoy your life!
@@krishashok ya it’s a free world carry on ,your quest of creating content with relevant/ unrelevant ideas about world
I have been trying to decide on whether to be subscribed to your channel even though I believe in only 50% of your content and the other 50% is also debatable.
You cleared my doubts by bringing this guy on your channel. Unsubscribing! Thanks
why?
Enjoy your life!
Can you please throw some light on the 50%? So far i find his channel to be the most relatable to me. And he has been very open to change. And he does a lot of research. He is not after click bait and cheap viewership (at least so far).
Patnaik has been outed as a charlatan, pity that you still take him seriously. His books are littered with basic errors. He's so abusive and nasty on Twitter. He's neither good at what he does nor at a personal level.
Please don't promote such ppl
Devdutt Patnayak is one of the most confused people I have seen.
Generalisms aside - what did you particularly find confusing in this video
You shouldn't have brought this guy. He's highly controversial and although he could be a good author, he's not a good person
What makes you say so ?
Ideas, not individuals.
He is a cheap low class author
@@thecomment9489and what r ur qualifications to judge him like that?
Couldn't you find a better guy?
Please let's not have this casteist self proclaimed 'mythologist' here sir...please! Your content is awsome otherwise.
You lost my respect by inviting some one like Devdutt who constantly spews hate
I wasn't actively seeking out your respect. Enjoy your life
@krishashok Thanks for letting me know that. Good luck with everything after getting involved with such a person like Devdutt.
By having this converted messiah as your guest you lost me a viewer
Enjoy your life!
Not sure if you are aware Devdutt Patnaik has bad name in the industry...
Boss, I don't care about good or bad names. I focus on ideas. Not individuals.
always loved your use of boss @@krishashok :)
@@krishashokWell, even if u look at his ideas......they have fabrication, falsehood n mistranslations involved.....sold by PR !
This Dutta guy called Onion as Vishnu Jee's Chakkras 💀🗿👌🏼
bla bla bla
Science isn't something that just began recently, so please refrain from promoting your narratives. Instead, could you provide the research and solid data to support your claims?
Devdut is an exploiter. He speaks untruths. And no one challenges him because he uses fake examples from religion. It's a pity he's made money by exploiting the vulnerable. Mythology is nothing but imaginary stories. Mostly bunk. Please do not call him just to increase episodes on your Chanel.
My channel. My choice of guests. If you do not agree with him, feel free to unfollow instead of lecturing me on who I should talk to
यह देवदत्त छोड़कर दूसरा कोई नहीं मिला. my first unlike since many years. जमात ऐ sick_ular कहीं का
Unsubscribing,unnecessary, useless discussion of self appointed myth buster , pseudo intellectual
...bye, bye (clicks Unsubscribe)
Enjoy!
@@krishashok 🤣🤣🤣🤣you seem to be enjoying more
Devdutt is himself a fiction writer of low rate and is twisting the meaning of the word myth or mythology. This low rate author should know that if he can't understand the scope of the Indic faiths then he should not invent his own meanings of these terms.
Unsubscribed your channel and downvoted this video.
@thecomment9489 why so much animosity? Anyway if you had listened to Kris so far then wouldn't you be curious to see how Kris would be handling this conversation. Kris seems to be genuinely listening and he was brave enough to bring in a person who almost has an exact opposite point of view and he is ready to talk food from myth/traditional point of view.
I beleive in this series he will not take any items to conclusions but putforth both point of view and in the end the audience will be left to decipher meaning out of it.
Anonymous troll! Stop behaving like a childish person!
@@skpaandastop being a nag urself !
Enjoy with Devdutt
It's Time to unsubscribe
Enjoy!
@@krishashokSure
U too !
Didn't know you existed
You seem to question everything which is ok but exploring without qualifications in food science & nutrition. Also dislike Devdutt Patnaik
It's eternally fascinating how you angry folks still end up offering free social media engagement to people you don't like. Leaving a comment tells the algorithm to show my video to more people, which I assume is the exact opposite of what you want, and yet you do it without fail. Thank you for your generosity 🤣
@@krishashok & you think pulling leg & giving tit for tat to your subscribers is doing good to you . Good luck with that my friend 😅. Self appointed, pseudo intellectual
Saying science science in every sentence won’t make u scientific or scientist 🧑🔬😜
Already unsubscribed on Insta & here
@@krishashokWell, u seem angry too by all these posts..... otherwise, won't be typing so hard !😊
@@kishandubey7882 well so r u I would assume lmao
@@obiwankenobi1784 Well, it is pretty clear who is assuming here....u urself admitted!
Why Devdutt? His books are riddled with errors as he mistranslates many things? He abuses people on twitter and is not open to any new ideas?
Unsubscribed