Ballade generally makes stuff that isn’t worth it for the money. But skunk 2 or BC racing cams would be excellent! I would like to see the ballade cams but unfortunately their build quality isn’t great from what I hear.
@@CameronsCars BC Racing (aka Bor Chuann Racing) does not make cams, they make coilovers, nothing else. Buddy Club also doesn't make cams, they make headers and exhausts. Brian Crower makes cams. That must be who you meant, BC cams. Be careful with the acronym "BC," you never know when you could be promoting the wrong company. Funny thing is, all three companies are very good at what they do. They should join together, right?
John: Hate to say it, but maybe you have to build the "complex" header you did for my white car for an NA car along with the hondata reflash on stock cams to see..gains. remember we were at 240+ rwhp and 160 lb/ft peaks.
@@uazhar2013 Yes he did. It was a stainless "step" header (1.75", 1.90",2.0") along with a complete stainless 2.5" exhaust of his design with dual mufflers which bypassed the 2nd muffler under WOT. Car made crazy torque from 4,000 rpm, you could short shift it at 7,000 rpm most times OR buzz it to 8,500 rpm when you needed to. When I raced it, I was routinely accused of having hidden nitrous OR gears because is was so strong and fast. Today everyone just bolts once turbo or S/C for more power. John built identical set up to mine..with nitrous for a friend of mine and he routinely raced a beat V8 powered cars. All of this story is from 2009-2010. Stock appearance, no ITB, no crazy intake tubes, stock cams, quiet exhaust at light throttle, LHT Performance. The headers were hand built by John and took alot of time to make. He stopped making them when the Skunk2 header came out and everyone wanted S/C builds. Imagine a NA S2k that you can steer with the throttle, casually pitch sideways by stomping the throttle OR entertain motorcycle people on "bike night" at Hooters with effortless 360 degree burnouts without abusing the car or clutch. A S2000 with..torque..everywhere. John's header/exhaust just maximized the Hondata reflash effect with vtec "window" lowered to 4,000 rpm. TRANSFORMS the driving experience of the car.👍
Thanks men. I've enjoyed these and they've made me think. I'm leaning towards a built k24a for bigger NA power. I love my 2005, but feel it needs 100 horses to really come alive.
thanks for doing these tests anyways. I can totally relate. I did probably over 100 pulls on my ap1 when i used to work at k&n in riverside just to test stupid little things, I had to do it on my own time so i would come in before i clocked in in the mornings. I did dozens of intake tests but I would test the dumbest shit, like the hondata intake manifold gasket LOL. In those early days there wasn't that much info and youtube wasn't as popular back in 2008
I have a few header options you could test out on the b16 when we do the intercooler package. Type r 4-1 and 1996 type r 4-2-1. On the car is the stock top portion with the 2.5 lower portion. Guess you could compare your design to all these oem options. 🤷♂️
Can you do a E85 video and test e85 e30 or e60 against 91/93 pump I would also ask about water meth injection but rhats used for turbo cars usually. I never see these fueling upgrades talked about much with hondas. But everyone does them in vw /German car world
It's been done many times. E85 helps cool the intake charge because it goes through at a 30% higher rate than premium, then a turbo/SC car is timing limited and with higher octane you can push the timing as far as you need to make more power... on a factory NA car, none of that applies. If the car is 12.5:1 compression, then it starts to make a difference. Once you go to 14:1 compression, a makes a noticeable difference. So ask yourself, is your car 12.5:1 or higher compression? No? Please drive through. Sidenote: E85 also clears out carbon buildup, which also gives you power. So, if you're engine is clean of carbon, you haven't lost any power to be gained from cleaning.
Super easy to change out those cams because the timing chain doesn't go over the cams, you line them up, and bolt them down. Not chain driven, gear driven. Easy, literally 2hrs, vs 8hrs on a keries (once the valve cover is off, its 4hrs, but i add 3-4hrs for valve adjustment, install+removal of valve cover plus retune). The R numbers on the cams define which manufacturing line it went down, nothing else. The extra hoops or grooves define the lessor/better cam. He mentions not to send him chinese headers, but thats what 1320 headers are, they are relabeled several times from the original chinese made headers to hide the fact that they are Chinese. Originally, they were made here, then once they made their name, they just relabeled chinese PLM headers.Atleast, from what I've read. Skunk2 could also be manufactured in China, I wouldn't put it past them. But, skunk2 does the best at hiding it. The only headers i know for sure arent Chinese, and actually USA, is Six Sigma Racing and Hitech. Then, there is the Japanese headers like Spoon, Mugen, Js Racing, etc. US companies either jump on the bandwagon and sell relabeled Chinese or they go out of business like Six Sigma Racing. You have to make the call, be dishonest and move on... or, shut down and keep your integrity. Honesty makes no money in the header business. Lastly, with oem cams, you need to drive the car for about a month to let it break in. For some reason, they make more power over time. Could be soot buildup gets knocked away when you have more lift, or for better flow. The test is inconclusive. Sadly This is all my opinion. I don't know anything. Don't believe what you read/watch on the internet.
Most headers are made in Taiwan and China. I tested what I had laying around. I don’t really care for the results and have nothing to gain but a stupid video for expects to pick apart. Pre run cams require no break in. I don’t sell cams, I really don’t care for the results either. I did the video out of interest. You can take the time and do your own testing for other parts etc. as mentioned, chasing 3-5whp is a waste of time I think. Thanks for watching.
@@LHTPerformance I've installed many oem type-r/k20z1 cams into k20a2s... every time, it took several weeks to a month to extract the full 10hp. At first, it would ve just 5-7hp, then after the break in, a full 10hp. Since then, Ive also installed many used oem cams, new oem cams, and aftermarket cams. Those last few hp make the difference, when aftermarket kseries cams are literally competing against tyep-r/k20z1 cams. Some make less, some make more. The most I've seen is 7hp more, but usualluly it's in the 3-5hp range. Call it soot built up that needs to be knocked off the valve stems, or call it valve adjustment that was too tight and needed to be loosened up a bit, or call it massaging of the flow from the intake through the motor to out of the tailpipe... whatever it is, its there.
@@copperkeyracing6167 There’s no soot on the valve stems. Changing cams has nothing to do with the valve stems 🤷♂️. Break in coating is on new cams, not on pre run cams as I refers to.
Kseries was drastically detuned from the factory so that a car costing 20% less wouldnt compete internally within Honda's products. Kseries makes more power than Fseries, once fully realized, but the engine didn't exist when the s2000 was initially designed. There was rumor once that an s2000 successor would be made with a kseries engine in the rear.
@@copperkeyracing6167 my previous k20 with typical boltons and dc5 cams, and 5.3 final drive, felt more powerfull than my S f20c with 70mm header back, aem ems and 4.7 final drive.
Every after market cam I’ve seen on the S2000 doesn’t make enough power for the side effects that come along with it. I would stick with stock and add boost.
The test is inconclusive. They didnt let the cams breakin, which takes about a month on a low mileage driven car. Then, they didn't do a full retune. They should have changed the vtec point as they mentioned, and instead only adjusted ignition timing.
Would this be any different on a supercharged car in terms of benefit? Can you test cam timing, ie is more duration worth it for supercharged s2000? Is it worth it to advance or retard cam timing in any way for supercharged s2000?
Depending on how efficient the radiator and fan combo. With a stock combo, it takes a little while to pull the temperature down, so I would turn the fans on earlier. I like to keep the engine between 185-195F
@@LHTPerformance haha amen my good man. I think you've said it before somewhere but after sitting in my step-brother's E85 turbo S2k making about 650hp, definitely feels like a sweet spot between fun and scary is around 300-400 whp in these things
Thanks for making these videos. Most people have no clue the extra time you and George put in.
The fact that you guys would spend that amount of time for the sake of knowledge speaks volumes. You guys are awesome.😎😎👍🏽
I love that this is a pure s2000 channel
Big thanks to you and George for taking the time to test and debunk
Wonder how much difference will Brian crower stage2 cams will do? Great video very useful 🤔🔥👌
Putting in all the hard work nobody else is willing to do, to actually prove break down facts. Thanks guys! 👍
I wouldn't call it a waste of time, you had an idea and proved it's value (or lack of) so we don't have to. And for that, I thank you 👍.
I know.
I’m liking these Honda science videos
I’ve been looking at this mod since before I ever owned an s2000. So glad to see this video!
On behalf of all honda enthusiasts thank you for the experiment
Thank you so much for doing this! This is gold for the s2k community 🙏👍 someone provide ballade camshafts please
Ballade generally makes stuff that isn’t worth it for the money. But skunk 2 or BC racing cams would be excellent!
I would like to see the ballade cams but unfortunately their build quality isn’t great from what I hear.
@@CameronsCars BC Racing (aka Bor Chuann Racing) does not make cams, they make coilovers, nothing else. Buddy Club also doesn't make cams, they make headers and exhausts. Brian Crower makes cams. That must be who you meant, BC cams. Be careful with the acronym "BC," you never know when you could be promoting the wrong company. Funny thing is, all three companies are very good at what they do. They should join together, right?
I actually greatly appreciate your work! I never miss a vid!
Keep these testing parts on the dyno videos coming. They are addictive.
John: Hate to say it, but maybe you have to build the "complex" header you did for my white car for an NA car along with the hondata reflash on stock cams to see..gains. remember we were at 240+ rwhp and 160 lb/ft peaks.
Wow that’s serious John designed it?
@@uazhar2013 Yes he did. It was a stainless "step" header (1.75", 1.90",2.0") along with a complete stainless 2.5" exhaust of his design with dual mufflers which bypassed the 2nd muffler under WOT. Car made crazy torque from 4,000 rpm, you could short shift it at 7,000 rpm most times OR buzz it to 8,500 rpm when you needed to. When I raced it, I was routinely accused of having hidden nitrous OR gears because is was so strong and fast. Today everyone just bolts once turbo or S/C for more power. John built identical set up to mine..with nitrous for a friend of mine and he routinely raced a beat V8 powered cars. All of this story is from 2009-2010. Stock appearance, no ITB, no crazy intake tubes, stock cams, quiet exhaust at light throttle, LHT Performance. The headers were hand built by John and took alot of time to make. He stopped making them when the Skunk2 header came out and everyone wanted S/C builds. Imagine a NA S2k that you can steer with the throttle, casually pitch sideways by stomping the throttle OR entertain motorcycle people on "bike night" at Hooters with effortless 360 degree burnouts without abusing the car or clutch. A S2000 with..torque..everywhere. John's header/exhaust just maximized the Hondata reflash effect with vtec "window" lowered to 4,000 rpm. TRANSFORMS the driving experience of the car.👍
Car is so beautiful
i wonder how much those nice Toda cams will make!
Good info. Thanks for taking the time to do these things!
Thanks for making these videos I always enjoy seeing things like this.
Do some research on the Gernby exhaust, now sold as the Gern pipe by Urge designs. Only way to really gain in the midrange NA with these cars.
Thank you for doing this 👍
Thanks men. I've enjoyed these and they've made me think. I'm leaning towards a built k24a for bigger NA power. I love my 2005, but feel it needs 100 horses to really come alive.
It really needs power. I thought my GT4 was pretty weak, but after the S2000 for the last 2000 miles in the mountains, The Porsche feels fast. Lol.
thanks for doing these tests anyways. I can totally relate. I did probably over 100 pulls on my ap1 when i used to work at k&n in riverside just to test stupid little things, I had to do it on my own time so i would come in before i clocked in in the mornings. I did dozens of intake tests but I would test the dumbest shit, like the hondata intake manifold gasket LOL. In those early days there wasn't that much info and youtube wasn't as popular back in 2008
Love the videos keep up the hard work research and development priceless
I’m think the timing of the valve opening is different by maybe a few degrees and that’s causing the loss.
I have a few header options you could test out on the b16 when we do the intercooler package. Type r 4-1 and 1996 type r 4-2-1. On the car is the stock top portion with the 2.5 lower portion. Guess you could compare your design to all these oem options. 🤷♂️
I love this video,
Haven't even watched it yet but Im curious about the result
Maybe the AP1 will make more power with AP2 cam
It’s possible.
Time to test what is the best OEM K-series cams. I have a CNC ported RBC you can slap on your S2k if you’re interested.
That's easy. 06-08 TSX intake cam with any TSX exhaust cam. Welcome to 15years ago.
Great video! Keep them coming!
Now we know. Thank you.
Can you do a E85 video and test e85 e30 or e60 against 91/93 pump
I would also ask about water meth injection but rhats used for turbo cars usually. I never see these fueling upgrades talked about much with hondas. But everyone does them in vw /German car world
It's been done many times. E85 helps cool the intake charge because it goes through at a 30% higher rate than premium, then a turbo/SC car is timing limited and with higher octane you can push the timing as far as you need to make more power... on a factory NA car, none of that applies. If the car is 12.5:1 compression, then it starts to make a difference. Once you go to 14:1 compression, a makes a noticeable difference. So ask yourself, is your car 12.5:1 or higher compression? No? Please drive through.
Sidenote: E85 also clears out carbon buildup, which also gives you power. So, if you're engine is clean of carbon, you haven't lost any power to be gained from cleaning.
Super easy to change out those cams because the timing chain doesn't go over the cams, you line them up, and bolt them down. Not chain driven, gear driven. Easy, literally 2hrs, vs 8hrs on a keries (once the valve cover is off, its 4hrs, but i add 3-4hrs for valve adjustment, install+removal of valve cover plus retune).
The R numbers on the cams define which manufacturing line it went down, nothing else. The extra hoops or grooves define the lessor/better cam.
He mentions not to send him chinese headers, but thats what 1320 headers are, they are relabeled several times from the original chinese made headers to hide the fact that they are Chinese. Originally, they were made here, then once they made their name, they just relabeled chinese PLM headers.Atleast, from what I've read. Skunk2 could also be manufactured in China, I wouldn't put it past them. But, skunk2 does the best at hiding it. The only headers i know for sure arent Chinese, and actually USA, is Six Sigma Racing and Hitech. Then, there is the Japanese headers like Spoon, Mugen, Js Racing, etc. US companies either jump on the bandwagon and sell relabeled Chinese or they go out of business like Six Sigma Racing. You have to make the call, be dishonest and move on... or, shut down and keep your integrity. Honesty makes no money in the header business.
Lastly, with oem cams, you need to drive the car for about a month to let it break in. For some reason, they make more power over time. Could be soot buildup gets knocked away when you have more lift, or for better flow.
The test is inconclusive. Sadly
This is all my opinion. I don't know anything. Don't believe what you read/watch on the internet.
Most headers are made in Taiwan and China. I tested what I had laying around. I don’t really care for the results and have nothing to gain but a stupid video for expects to pick apart.
Pre run cams require no break in. I don’t sell cams, I really don’t care for the results either. I did the video out of interest. You can take the time and do your own testing for other parts etc. as mentioned, chasing 3-5whp is a waste of time I think. Thanks for watching.
@@LHTPerformance I've installed many oem type-r/k20z1 cams into k20a2s... every time, it took several weeks to a month to extract the full 10hp. At first, it would ve just 5-7hp, then after the break in, a full 10hp. Since then, Ive also installed many used oem cams, new oem cams, and aftermarket cams. Those last few hp make the difference, when aftermarket kseries cams are literally competing against tyep-r/k20z1 cams. Some make less, some make more. The most I've seen is 7hp more, but usualluly it's in the 3-5hp range.
Call it soot built up that needs to be knocked off the valve stems, or call it valve adjustment that was too tight and needed to be loosened up a bit, or call it massaging of the flow from the intake through the motor to out of the tailpipe... whatever it is, its there.
@@copperkeyracing6167 There’s no soot on the valve stems. Changing cams has nothing to do with the valve stems 🤷♂️. Break in coating is on new cams, not on pre run cams as I refers to.
Why K20 and 24 gain so much power with just a bigger intake manifold and header, and f20 and f22 dont?
Kseries was drastically detuned from the factory so that a car costing 20% less wouldnt compete internally within Honda's products. Kseries makes more power than Fseries, once fully realized, but the engine didn't exist when the s2000 was initially designed. There was rumor once that an s2000 successor would be made with a kseries engine in the rear.
@@copperkeyracing6167 my previous k20 with typical boltons and dc5 cams, and 5.3 final drive, felt more powerfull than my S f20c with 70mm header back, aem ems and 4.7 final drive.
Lefth Hand Turn... what about a I-vtec conversion? Its alot of work but it be fun😁
It would be much much cost effective to install a turbo. Plus it’s 100% reversible if needed.
How come you did not change the exhaust cam? It would have been interesting to see the results. Thanks for the video.
It has the same specs 🤷♂️
@@LHTPerformance thanks for the info. Have you tried any other aftermarket cams for s2000? If so are they worth it?
Exactly instead of all these bolt ons get boost and call it a day 🤘
I need to send you my car already
Are there any aftermarket cams out there that you seen make power on the s2000?
Every after market cam I’ve seen on the S2000 doesn’t make enough power for the side effects that come along with it. I would stick with stock and add boost.
Was a valve adjustment performed?
Yea. I believe we mentioned it in the video. 3.23
@@LHTPerformance wow can’t believe I missed it!
Lift might be more and slightly more duration but what about ramp differences on the lobe? I just don’t get how it lost power.
The test is inconclusive. They didnt let the cams breakin, which takes about a month on a low mileage driven car. Then, they didn't do a full retune. They should have changed the vtec point as they mentioned, and instead only adjusted ignition timing.
Would this be any different on a supercharged car in terms of benefit? Can you test cam timing, ie is more duration worth it for supercharged s2000? Is it worth it to advance or retard cam timing in any way for supercharged s2000?
Question my exhaust cam tower cap it’s crack can I put an ap2 cam with ap2 cam towers ?
On the Exhaust side ?
Help
You don’t want to mis match cam towers. You need to keep the bottoms and tops together matching. Luckily the S2000 is separate from the cam towers.
John, here's hoping you follow your own advice... Turbo time!
It’s not that I don’t want it. Due to supply issues there’s hardly enough for customer builds. I can’t build mine.
@@LHTPerformance Got it. Just about everything is in short supply (I see it in the computer area) and prices are climbing...
awesome vid John, ilike these videos.. makes us owners just wanna save towards forced induction lol stay awesomee lht
Can you dyno an ap1 with an ap1 exhaust cam on a stock ECU? It has been proven to make power on turbocharged S2000’s but never seen N/A testinf
Huh? The AP1 exhaust cam has the same specs as an AP2 exhaust cam
Just based of my limited knowledge I would guess it's going to gain 10 hp 2lbs of torque up top and extend usuable hp out 200 rpm on ap2.....
Promptly realized I was wrong as all hell 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Edit i thought it had more duration not just lift.
I have a random question. On my Kpro what is the best temperature to have the radiator fans turn on??
Depending on how efficient the radiator and fan combo. With a stock combo, it takes a little while to pull the temperature down, so I would turn the fans on earlier. I like to keep the engine between 185-195F
Would the toda cams be safe to run with a turbocharger?
Stick with stock. You can make all the power you need with the correct combo and enjoy the reliability of OEM cams.
PLM TRI Y HEADER IS A BALLADE HYTECH REP LOL
Do y’all offer an etune I have a stock k20 with just a short ram intake an a q300 exhaust I have a hondata
We don’t. Sorry.
I can take care of that for you
@@copperkeyracing6167 I got someone to do it RCautoworks is doing it thanks tho
i turbo it thats it
Thanks for sharing these John - though I have to say if you don't want to rev it to the moon... maybe the S2000 is not the car for 'you'?
I like rpms, but I like HP with it. 😉
@@LHTPerformance haha amen my good man. I think you've said it before somewhere but after sitting in my step-brother's E85 turbo S2k making about 650hp, definitely feels like a sweet spot between fun and scary is around 300-400 whp in these things