ไม่สามารถเล่นวิดีโอนี้
ขออภัยในความไม่สะดวก
Nadu vs Necrobloom vs Jodah vs Will and lucas cEDH Gameplay
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 มิ.ย. 2024
- Nadu again! Well we also have Jodah and necrobloom. But also Joal with us on Will and lucas.
MUSIC
If you like this music and want to listen more of it. Well Rhetoric made it! Here is a link to his youtube channel where he uploads some of the music we have on these videos.
/ @rhetorsmusic
CEDH TV?
Well here is a link for you. It is to the original channel. It dose deck techs and card reviews and other game theory videos.
/ @cedhtv
SUPPORT ME
If you wish to support my channel by purchasing cards from TCGplayer using this affiliate link helps cEDH TV grow.
tinyurl.com/TC...
I have a Patreon: www.patreon.co...
--------------- M Y D I S C O R D --------------------------
Come and hangout with other cEDH players at my Discord: / discord
Here you can write to me if you wanna say something. Like "hi can I join in on the live stream games?"
------------------- D E C K L I S T -------------------
Nadu: www.moxfield.c...
Necrobloom: www.moxfield.c...
Jodah: www.moxfield.c...
Will & Lucas: www.moxfield.c...
#mtgcommander #cedh #edhgameplay
The biggest problem isnt Nadu its everyone just runs 20 counter spells and 2 pieces of removal.
^this. Play more removal.
Nadu triggering off opponent removal is a thing too, potentially just never resolving your removal bc they just trigger trigger trigger trigger stacking after the removal trigger, like a scute swarm, land, more scutes, trigger something like ivy lane denizen, target scute, repeat. Or they flip into a counter or flicker spell and just save nadu, hell flipping into a land might be enough to pay for a counter the nadu player was tapped out for
Honestly perfect video showcasing nadu
Yeah Snuske did a good job.
I feel like Nadu might get banned purely for it's basically slow play. I can't see many ppl who have to sit there (for perspective. The final Nadu turn was almost 60% of the video alone. And once it starts with a handful of cards. It does exactly that every. Single. Time. With basically zero variance.) And watch some1 play solitaire for 15 is mins straight.
I'd be hesitant that if any1 doesn't have an answer to any of the free ability cards like shuko, it's safe to just scoop on the turn if they can present a reasonable number of upfront activations
Every time I play this deck less and less people want to play with me :(
It is not for casual.
And honestly it’s miserable in cedh too lol. Even there I don’t want to watch 30 minute turns
I wonder why...zzz ZZZ zzz 😴
Getting strong Krark and Sakashima vibes with how this deck spins it’s wheels
Good, hope you lose your playgroup for playing something this fucking dumb. 😊
15:30 Nadu is not a spirit
I don’t think the nantuko token copies of flesh duplicate can enter as another creature if it’s already copying another creature. It would just enter as what it was copying, which I believe was a Kutzil in this case.
If you want clone copies to enter and copy freely, the clone has to have entered as nothing first. In this instance, you would need a way to boost flesh duplicate’s toughness before it dies as a 0/0 when it enters without copying.
Whenever you use Alphetto or Seeker, you can, at the end of the turn cycle, activate the ability targeting smth besides itself, like Nadu
It does stop the loop, but you don't care, since you have an untap step right away
Just an extra Nadu trigger
Oh yea true ^^
No idea how I missed that xD
Thank you!
Please dont ban. Finally a commander i enjoy playing and playing against
WotC screwed up pretty bad with this commander
Feels like I'm watching another Krark video. One player does the same thing for 20 minutes while everyone else has to watch, even though they're aware they're dead.
Nadu is basically Paradox Engine with wings. Not necessarily in abilities but long turns that maybe or maybe not wins you the game.
The big question is "When do I concede to Nadu?" In a tournament, not until they've demonstrated a deterministic win, which they eventually will assemble.
Outside a tournament, it's a matter of triggers and mana. Each trigger has X% of hitting a land, and a land gives you Y more triggers. For most lists X is around 30%. Y depends on the board, but by default it's going to be approximately 2 + 2-per-token. (You'll be able to play a dork with 1 mana, and each creature can be triggered 2x.)
So without any synergies, it can't go infinite. With 1 synergy and a couple triggers, it's anyone's guess. With 2 synergies and a couple triggers it's more likely to go infinite than not. With 3 synergies and bunch of possible triggers or extra mana (like 10+ combined), I would concede.
(This isn't exact, there are plenty of complications, but our goal is a conservative estimate using only public information.)
Biggest problem with nadu, it plays kinda like Paradox Engine, as you have to durdle around a long LONG time and you MAY fail.
Had games with turns lasting 30+ minutes, just to either win or fail.
It’s not quite as bad as paradox engine, but it’s pretty close… the biggest problem with paradox engine was that it made *every* deck have this problem since it’s colorless
@@pixielilla7369 the big problem was the long turns, the fact that it was a colorless 5cmc interactable staple was not the real problem imo
@@pippofelipe6901it's the 2 together.
One quicker way if you have a secure gamestate is finding Unctus, then using Aphetto Alchemist to tap/untap itself to loot the rest of your deck. You can keep the cards you need along the way, and then plop down Thoracle. Obviously this is a riskier pattern then plodding along non-deterministically, but it is a way to end the game faster if allowed to. There's also the Rotpriest/Nanogene combo, which is just a goofy 2-piece brick, but can also end the game faster. Nanogene copying Nadu is pretty funny. Finale is the safest but as you see here it can solitaire for a while
I think that Krark/Sakashima is harder to pilot and can be annoying to play against if the pilot is not good at representing the stack, but it's still less obnoxious to play against than Nadu
Agreed.
Absolutely false , Nadu is slow, but you can interact with it. Krarkashima with deflecting swat and fierce is not
@ecclesiaandune687 fair, but not my point, a lot of things need to happen for that kind of protection to be of any relevance to my state of mind. What makes Nadu turns worse is the fact that he is not drawing cards, basically casting no spells, and fishing for a win a card at the time
ok im fairly certain that he was playing flesh dupicate wrong at the end. it is a kutzul and making copies of it would make more kutzuls. it loses the flesh dup ability to change into something on etb but gains vanishing. he shouldnt have been able to make copies of other creatures because what the nantuko sees is a kutzul
no it sees it as flesh duplicat.
@@cedhtvgameplay3974 copiable values" (C.R. 706.2). If that creature is a copy of another permanent, the tokens will be copies of that permanent as well.
In the case of a Clone that isn't a copy of anything (which will generally happen only if something is raising Clone's toughness), each token will enter the battlefield as a copy of Clone, and in turn, its controller can have that token enter as a copy of another creature (C.R. 706.5). If a Clone is a copy of something else, the tokens will be copies of that permanent (and not another creature of their controller's choice) (under C.R. 706.2, a permanent's copiable values are "modified by other copy effects", including effects already on the permanent).
@@rhettnorman8451 i believe since we are making copies of the object nantuko is attached to this is different.
But I'll look into this further when I get the chance to confirm.
This rule seems to only apply to when you have something else enter as a copy of what flesh duplicant is a copy as. Which would of course be kutzil. But this is not what is happening here.
@@Snuske10006 unfortunately the difference between the situation is casting one from hand is isn't currently anything and you get to pick what it becomes vs. making a token of something already in play. If you look at the rules text for splinter twin on gatherer it explains what happens in the third rules text box. "If the enchanted creature is copying something else when the ability resolves (for example, if it's a Renegade Doppelganger), then the token enters the battlefield as a copy of whatever the enchanted creature is copying, plus it has haste."
@@rhettnorman8451 oh interesting. I was not aware of that.
Luckily I think it was at a stage where it did not matter much.
I believe I could have managed fine without it.
I'll make sure to remember this for the future though.
And find the citation for it so I can actually know when this is relevant ^^
Hey Mons I do constantly update the Jodah list still, I just haven't done many tournaments lately because there haven't been many in-person events on the west coast of the US and online events haven't been firing too well
I feel like Pontus is a really good player in any color that is not green.
might be true. He don't like green.
@@cedhtvgameplay3974he’s good, that list was pure trash - played too many combo only cards, not good in a vacuum cards. Or only good with X in play. And necrobloom being 3 pips sucks & basically chasing to find Gitrog might as well play just play Gitrog if you’re going to play the bad cards.
Many ways to skin a cat, but it’s not a turbo deck. I incidentally win on turn 4 but my opps don’t get to play bc I play good cards and use it as a passive value engine.
@@cedhtvgameplay3974 he doesnt have the green mentality. he doesnt see t1 dork into t2 something big into something bigger is good
I remember an episode where Pontus played a Selvala list he knew very little about and he played it really really well and got a win not many people would have found
@@InmAncalagon the dude knows his magic. no one doubts that. but it always strikes me like he is not confortable with greens play pattern
Before i clicked this video, i thought it was like multiple game plays xD.
That Nadu looks like it'll be a headache in my next LGS Commander night, good to see what it's capable of this early on. Something like Blind Obedience/Thalia Heretic Cathar and Deafening Silence seems to be needed to slow land chains or number of cards being played. Maybe Leisa Shroud of Dusk as a sideboard if it really gets annoying.
By the way, if you create copies of a clone, it just takes a snapshot of that clone. So if it is a Kutzil, you'll be making copies of Kutzil
Paradox engine on wings folks 🐦 rc don't like this kind of turns, right? 😂😂
Nadu is toxic.
It's incredibly boring being part of anything involved with it except playing it. The real way Nadu wins is by the board conceding out of boredom.
feels like Krark/Sakashima
Free will allows anyone to scoop and walk away
We just all have to agree to kick nadu in the shins so we can play the game instead of just watching
Is magic supposed to be a solitaire game?
People really upset about nadu like we really want to watch Breach or Thoracle lines for the thousandth time :)
huge mistake for nadu to put lands in or not making it a draw, both would balance it better
Ouch- I’m conflicted. I usually encourage people to play whatever they want in cedh- but if playing outside of a tournament I personally hope not to see this deck much. In a tournament absolutely play whatever deck you think is best.
Turn zero conversations happen for a reason
Mons, will there be another time you test out JMCraig’s animar deck or any animae deck in the future? There’s been quite a few changes to it since the last time it was played
Not ATM no. But futrure maybe.
Essence Flux only gives a +1/+1 counter to a Spirit
I understand needing to make the video a bit longer but with 0 interaction in any opponent's hand, the rest of the video was just Nadu playing with themselves until completion. Boring.
Keep crying because you’re bad
Doesn't flesh duplicant when copied make the same creature it is copying? Idk
It will be a copy of the printed card which is duplicant :) so it can enter as a copy of whatever once again
@@Snuske10006It makes a copy of a creature. If the creature is a copied Kutzil it will make another Kutzil. I don't see any indication why it would copy the card.
@@Snuske10006Thats not correct. If you copy a clone, you get a copy of the cloned card, not the clone itself. Rule 706.2 reads: „The "copiable values" are the values derived from the text printed on the object, as modified by other copy effects , by its face-down status, and by "as . . . enters the battlefield" and "as . . . is turned face up" abilities that set power and toughness“. Important here is „as modified by other copy effects“
@@ElSkizzle because copying an object copies what is printed on the card. Not what it is a copy of.
@@Snuske10006 look at the rules on gatherer of Sakashima of a Thousand Faces: "If the chosen creature is copying something else, then Sakashima enters the battlefield as whatever the chosen creature copied"
hmmm, can frozen aether be a good card against Nadu?
IMO, I think that once people start respecting Nadu, like what they've been doing with Kinnan or Krark, then I think Nadu's win percentage will fall off a bit but I'm glad that we have a new potential deck for top cut along with Blue Farm, Rog/Si and Sisay.
Nice video, first time viewer, but I will be back ;)
to the comments:
Why does everyone complain about the Nadu gameplan on a cEDH channel?
Do you want every combo to be 2 cards to win the game like thoracle? - "oh no my game lasts longer than 20 minutes, this feels like casual commander"
I dont get the hate for nadu - yes its different and yes it can take a while to present the win but its nice to have some variance in cEDH otherwise every deck would be Blue Farm, RogSi, Kinnan or Najeela and the pods would become boring.
And for the ones complaining about WOTC designing an overtuned commander: MH3 IS A MODERN SET! intended for use in modern - yes its legendary and I can see why: imagine 2 of them on the board in a 2 player format
Maybe Nadu will force the meta in a way that makes him obsolete, who knows but its nice to have a meta change once in a while :)
More Nadu, heck yeah
Run more spot removal lol
I mean, if you're playing in a tournatment. Is nadu viable or does every game just go to time?
is scouting trek a good card in Nadu, I feel like its a bit risky but if its not countered you can guarantee your nadu land drops
Yo. Play Erinis + Street Urchin. It's such an incredible matchup against Nadu.
Simic cancer continues. Oh and it was compared to the only other cEDH deck I despise Krark/Sakashima, SHOCKER...
what site do you guys play on?
It is actually a combination of playtesting on moxfield and using OBS as a webcam to send that feed to spelltable. I have a video tutorial explaining how to creat that set up for free in this youtube video link.
th-cam.com/video/3xYR639ZwDo/w-d-xo.html
Mons your find mana crip turn 0 and go to card rou angen turn 2
Orcish won't trigger
No but it will focus towards the Nadu player.
Never played during paradox engine times but I'd imagine this is what it felt like?
Hey I know you
It's exactly what it felt like. Also similar to Krark, the thumbless
Legolas quick reflex could have short cutted the durdle
Woooooow, who could have seen this coming? I hope the Rule Committee doesn't go back on their philosophy and treats Nadu like any other card and not a hyped piece from a new set that is currently making WotC money. That would be a huge shame if the RC let their -paymaste- I mean, a completely unassociated company profit from shitting up the format they claim to moderate.
NAHH DUHH
Could he not have payed to make a copy of flesh duplicate, which enters as a new nadu reseting all his triggers?
Mons a love your content ! , maybe one day i can play with US ? :3
Write to me on discord. micromonkey we might be able to make something happen.
@@cedhtvgameplay3974 ok thankyou so much :3
@@cedhtvgameplay3974 Of course thank you so much :3 , i write you soon :3
❤❤❤
Simic Krarkashima! Love the Nadu
Nahh du 😂
nooo after the Flesh Duplicate you could have played Ornithopter and trigger Nadu twice
edit: not that it truly mattered 😂
Everyone's being super negative about Nadu in this comment section, but this was way more entertaining than a blue farm thoracle-consult or breach win.
Also, I'd be willing to bet most Nadu win turns don't take that long to find wins. Snuske's deck wasn't even running the other win cons that Wounded Satellite's primer runs.
I hate Thoracle/Consult but at least it wins in like two seconds, this is maybe the most convoluted wincon I’ve ever seen in a cEDH match.
@@Kirkland_Signature I’ve definitely seen some non-deterministic Vadrik and Gitrog wins on this channel. That’s partly why I enjoy them so much.
I’m hoping Nadu wins more quickly in most situations.
Definitely, I love non-deterministic decks, this one just seems extra slow in its current state. Not to mention it’s going to be even slower in paper when you consider managing all of the tokens and counters, that stuff is way easier to do on Moxfield.
@@Kirkland_Signature good point. I wonder if pilots figure out ways to speed it up.
This is the second video where you misunderstood a key part of Nadus combos and gameplay. Maybe read a primer?
Naaah duuh
Nadu is the most annoying commander now. Krark and Tayam got nothing on Nadu xD
Nadu getting smacked soon lol
I think nadu is a cool deck. I also think it needs to be banned. the winning turn takes so long and a big reason is tracking which creatures have been targeted and token generation. I've watched many videos with nadu and the non nadu players always seem to get a little salty watching nadu fumble to a win.
They're salty for knowing they've lost. It's a slow burn.
This is what WotC wants
@@twhite9615 Create cards that make the paper experience shitty, thus driving people to the digital client. ~WotC marketing genius, probably
If they ban I'm just done with cedh. Finally a commander that changes the meta
@@Vescense It changes the meta in a bad way imo. Nobody wants to sit and watch u take a 20 min turn.
Your playing necrobloom wrong 😭 I play my version in cedh games and have alot of success
his opening hand options diden't give him much room to swing with.
Nadu gives you way too much for way to little mana and way to little effort. It dirdles around a ton and is so non-deterministic. It feels like simic Krark and Sakashima in a sense, but unlike that deck nadu will still probably end up way higher on resources in the end even when it "wiffs". I think this commander is bullshit and designed exclusively to do bullshit. I'm not excited to see this deck at any level of play...
can we ban this? So boring to play against.
this is the problem with nadu. rhystic and mystic are almost always stay and noone answer them in cedh to have an opportunity to answer combo, so the nadu stays too. nadu is just a third best draw spell but in command zone (maybe even second, cause mystic costs mana every turn)
This is worse than watching Ironworks Combo in modern.
I fell asleep during the Nadu players turn. Its such a long winded and uninteresting deck. Nadu was pushed way too hard.
Luckily in my lgs we have a 5min/turn limit rules..
I built Nadu and played a few times before shelving it. It plays the same as goldfishing and I felt bad for making my opponents wait things out as I could have whiffed
God I hate solitare decks that take toooooo damn long to win boooo
nadu... 🤮 not a fun magic card
Play removal
@@sepeterson86 - 40\40 0 mana haste
- simply play removal
nadu needs to see a ban. that is just ridiculous. like i normally enjoy these videos, but that was just stupid.
EVERY cedh table deserve a stax player. Its a fact
I think Nadu is going to get banned for this exact reason it takes 20minute turns!
Nadu’s ability make you draw??? In this case there is an ability of orcish ??
It has the "Put into hand" text, not "draw a card"
Nadu is gonna get banned. Not only because its oppressively strong, but because it leads to a game of solitaire!
Wow, Nadu looks super fun. 🤢
I disliked the video
like your comment. I also dis and report.
This card is shit
ou mean nadu?
Nah, it's just new and demands respect.
Don't play that deck again, so glad I watch for almost ten minutes one guy playing with himself. Will definitely just scoop if this happens, don't care if they can wiff. Deck is trash, blue is a trash color, Simic is trash.
I love watching their videos, but games like this force me to close the video early.
That’s why it is cEDH and not casual commander.
We will make sure to check with you personally before picking commanders in the future. Sorry for the inconvenience!