Easy to forget but at this point in the show this was the biggest federation fleet ever seen on screen and it got annihalted by one Cube. One... That was so scary to see as a viewer.
@@kadindarklord USS Ahwahnee, USS Bellerophon, USS Bonestell, USS Buran, USS Chekov, USS Firebrand, USS Kyushu, USS Liberator, USS Melbourne, USS Princeton, USS Roosevelt, USS Saratoga, USS Tolstoy and USS Yamaguchi. With USS Endeavour a possible based on the Encyclopedia and implied in Voyager, USS Gage from unused dialogue from DS9, Admiral J.P. Hanson's Galaxy class starship (in the script), a Constitution class (or similar type of ship) and a Nebula class variant (original Melbourne until DS9). Beta gives us USS Porksauce, USS Righteous, USS Hoagland, USS Kadosca, USS Star League and USS Victory.
@@ShannonCarter55 Porksauce? In the future we will have the USS TurkeyGravy? or the USS ChickenWings? (yeah yeah I know, I just hate the name and wonder how it came to be) LOL
No matter how many time I see that scene, it ALWAYS makes my skin crawl... The reactions from Shelby and Riker... a mix of fear and helplessness. Hell, even Worf seems to have this 'How the hell is that possible? How are we going to beat them?' look on his face. Then the music kicks in, and we see all those wrecks... Perfection - pure and simple.
Keeping in mind that Riker had been offered command of the Melbourne shortly before all this, I always imagined his internal monologue went something like this: "Damn, that could've been me! I mean, I really dodged a bullet on this one. Wait, remember to look sad - Starfleet officers are dead and ships are destroyed. This is serious! No, Will, stop thinking about how happy you are to be alive! Whatever you do, don't smile! Just look down at the floor and _don't_ smile."
When Shelby started naming ships that had been lost, ending with the Melbourne, you can see a number of thoughts going through Riker's mind. He, of course, mourns for those lost, but you can also see him think, "I could've been here and perished with them." He was offered the chance to captain the Melbourne, but turned it down. That decision saved his life, from death and/or assimilation.
Anyone else notice the music cue at 1:13,It was The ending of "Eternal Father, Strong To Save". That Hymn was commonly played at funerals or services held for Sailors lost at Sea or killed in combat. Very small detail but nice nod nontheless!
True, they didn't have the budget to film the actual battle at the time, but this is one of those cases where nothing is scarier. You don't see the battle, just the aftermath.
despite the lack of realism (like almost always in Sci-fi) these two episodes are emotionally intense, dramatic and somehow "right". this is one of the most memorable scenes.
They sent an oberth. They'd had better luck with the cube if they'd gotten out and threw rocks at it. They were a slap together fleet trying to use outdated tactics to take down a superior enemy. How did they think this was gonna go?
Mirandas aren't the redshirts of the fleet. Heck, every space battle I've witnessed: Wolf 359: 1 confirmed. Sector 001: 0. Operation Return: 3. First Chin'toka: 1. Second Chin'toka: 2+. Cardassia: 2. Compared to: Wolf 359: well the entire fleet except as as-yet confirmed 1 starship (either USS Endeavour or USS Victory). Sector 001: 1 Akira, 2 Sabers, 4 Steamrunners, 1 Oberth? Operation Return: 1 Steamrunner, 3 Birds of Prey. First Chin'toka: 2 D'deridex, 3 Birds of Prey, 2 Vor'chas, 2 Akiras, 2 Excelsiors. Second Chin'toka: 311 out of 312 ships. Only survivor is a Bird of Prey, the I.K.S. Ki'tang. Cardassia: 1 Excelsior, 1 Steamrunner, 1 Bird of Prey, 1 Vor'cha, 1 Romulan Flagship. So Mirandas aren't redshirt ships. That clearly belongs to the Akiras (much as they are praised) and Steamrunners.
@@NatureismyHome-cu6zs military loss goes by percentages and wolf was 99% losses not even the 7th fleet massacre gets that high close but not quite. but yes i know what you mean in terms of total loss of life the dominion war topples it completely no questions. but per single engagement based on unit strength wolf was and still is number one with 99% losses only the enterprise survived and just barely at that. it exists burned into the federations mind of just how woefully incapable they were when facing a real threat. by the time the jem hadar rolled around the federation for the most part had gotten its shit together.
@@NatureismyHome-cu6zs It was the worst up to this point. We also don't know how many people were lost in the Seventh Fleet. Given what we learned in DS9, I would guess a lot of the losses were civilians, who couldn't get off before the battle. I would hope that during a time of war, all civilians off their ships.
She dedicated her career to getting ready, but faced with reality Shelby realized how unprepared they were. And decades later, she would lose her life to a more insidious tactic from the Borg. She kept Riker on his toes ... it was easy to feel annoyed by her in the original run, but in the decades since I respect her character, and in a way it did seem kinda silly for the plot armor to keep the Ent-D crew as static as they were over 7 years.
@@PeachWookiee Actually, what he said was he intended to film scenes saving them, but didn't have time. Doesn't mean they're alive. Star Trek officially lists her as deceased.
Caine7ify - The reaction of Captain Sisko upon first meeting Picard when he took over Deep Space Nine. He was visibly angry and pretty much hated Picard even though they’d never met.
Seeing the battle of Wolf 359 from another perspective at the start of DS9 was such a cool and memorable way to introduce the new series. Watching hundreds die in a hopeless battle from the very beginning really helped set the darker tone of that show, and beyond that it was just an epic spectacle.
I think that it enhances the dramatic impact of this episode that we don't actually get to see the battle here; it was all over almost as soon as it began, and even if the Enterprise had made it on time, there would just be another burnt-out hulk hanging lifeless in space. It's also worth noting that this was the biggest battle that had ever taken place in Star Trek up to this point, and the first one that the Federation lost so badly.
They probably should have studied The Battle of Trafalgar and not all arranged themselves in a neat little line pre-battle, but other than that they still had no chance.
If you want an idea of the ships seen at Wolf 359, the last ship we get a look at Is a constitution class. A ship that entered service 120 years before the battle. A ship that can barely do Warp 8 in an emergency. A ship that was being withdrawn in 2293. A ship that's simultaneously larger and smaller than a Miranda. A ship that was barely a match for Klingon Vessels at the tail end of the 2200's. A fucking constitution class.
There apparently were some Oberth too, a ship infamous for being downed in one shot by a Klingon war vessel in an era of its *CREATION* and one of the ships that was not supposed to even *BE* anywhere near actual battlefield - as it was a science ship.
I thought the idea was as most top of the line ships would be out exploring a pack of 40 strong mixed fleet of older ships could do enough to halt the advance while they assembled a better line nearer Earth and then these would fall back for repairs etc. Problem is the Borg were too strong at this stage. I think using those old ships was a reference to old naval ships being required to form a reserve fleet ready to launch if needed but nowadays an old battleship wouldn't last long against modern weaponry.
@Tin Watchman To be fair, part of it was just filming constraints. They had a half destroyed model of the original 1701 from Search for Spock and they added that into the scene.
I don't know where you're getting the idea that the Connies were "barely a match" for the Klingon ships. The Enterprise when she was relaunched was capable of taking to task three Klingon cruisers. The K'tinga was the direct response from the Klingon empire to the Constitution refit program, and it was still not up to snuff. Connie II's were old, but they were more than capable. They were being decommissioned after teh Khitomer Accords as a symbolic gesture. They had become the symbol of the conflict between the two sides.
I watched the original airing of BoBW part 1 and 2. It sucked I had to wait for the next season for bobw part 2. This was way back in June of 1990. Then I had to wait till Sept to see the 2nd. I can't believe it. Watched it on channel 15. UHF TV.
Funny thing is, this score help get Ron Jones fired from the series. Too bombastic the producers (Rick Berman) said. Plus, Jones did have this tendency to go over budget.
I just saw this episode a few days ago for the first time and I literally started crying seeing the ships!! 😭 And when the admirals transmission went dead too cuz I knew he'd been killed.,.. Wolf 359 was where Sisko's wife was killed. Sisko was on one of those ships with his wife and Jake... Fucking locutus!!! 😠
Ok for starters Locutus is Picard, second here's the number of ships going against the cube: 40. 2 survived. 38 ships of the Miranda, Nebula, Constitution, New Orleans & Excelsior classes, among others. And 2 made it away.
Remember that 2 parter, I think it was unification where the enterprise went to that starship junkyard in space looking for the t'pau? You can see some of the wolf 359 wrecks in that scene.
"Err, I'll happily take that promotion." "As captain of a starship? You've not long entered the academy, Mr. Harry Kim. Keep bugging for a promotion and you'll never get one on your first deep space assignment."
So there was a certain point when Picard was a Borg and they (Riker, Data and the rest) failed to rescue Picard-hence the timeline changes when Worf was jumping from timeline to timeline in a later episode, I think it was called “Parallels”
I know there were advances in technology specifically to fight the borg after this, but it makes it hard to believe Voyager was the exact opposite of this, one ship vs an entire fleet.
I may be in the minority, but Voyager never had a sense of reality. Given that they are TV shows, ST:TNG and DS9 atill seemed "real", the world building was carefully done. Voyager much less so. I liked some Voyager characters but never liked the show.
Recently the Orville aired their "Borg" 2 parter Identity. In many respects it was equal and some better then Best of Both World. After all the plot is almost the exact same with one major difference. In the Orville we saw the actual space battle. It looked awesome and did have tension and stakes which is unusual for many modern shows and films. Trek on the other hand though didn't show the live battle (until Emissary) and only showed the massacre of Wolf 359. Because of this the stakes and the tension was much higher then the Orville battle. This comparison shows a change in production and directing over the ages. The 80s/90s focused more on subtle and non-direct means of delivering the story. Today most shows and movies will just throw everything at once hoping you will be stunned in awe enough to not realise that it is super predictable and rather boring. It isn't universal mind, but it is a shame that the general audience has dumbed down where producers don't feel that actual tension and stakes without an explosion every minute is worth it
Of course, the Borg could only send one Cube. Because if they had sent two, they would have WON. And we can't have THAT! (Although Guinan and others said that the Borg always "swarmed" so it was jut BS to keep Earth from losing.) Same kind of thing with the First Contact movie: If the Borg had gone back in time FIRST, and THEN gone to Earth, they would have WON. So that couldn't happen.
Why have we not made a mini-series or at least movie on this battle? There is so much story and lore that, if done with the same care as Picard Season 3, would be incredible to see
That's why the Destiny books were so good. 7,000 Borg cubes laying waste to the Alpha Quadrant. Many worlds seen in TOS and TNG annihilated and rendered lifeless. Romulans, Cardassians. Klingons, Talarians, Nausicans, Ferengi all destroyed. That’'s what the Borg would have done after previous failures.
waaaaaaaaiit wait wait wait... Did you made a mistake? is your "0" button malfunctioning? are you telling me someone wrote a book about 7000 cubes attacking?
@@som3body3 Yes it is true. In the novel verse of Stark Trek, the Borg get pissed off after Voyager's return to the Alpha Quadrant and decide to blitz through the Alpha Quadrant, burning it all to the ground. The Borg are finally definitely defeated but 60 percent of Starfleet is destroyed and 63 billion people and scores of worlds are gone (an example is Risa).
I assume the Kyushu was also salvaged, and Enterprise survived its encounter. But everything else was most likely destroyed. Constitution was probably salvageable though
USS Ahwahnee was the ships name it later becomes part of Picard's Tachyon net at the Romulan/ Klingon border to prevent the Romulans from aiding the Duras family during the Klingon civil war .
@@andysahs1599 model had a different registry to the latter ship. Much as they retconned it. I see Ahwahnee as being salvaged, it wasn't a confirmed survivor. Beta Canon also says Yamaguchi went through the same recovery process. It has to be another ship.
@@ShannonCarter55 I agree the Ahwahnee is not seen on screen it could be a different class than the one seen at wolf 359 maybe this one was named in honor of that ship just like the USS Saratoga Sisko's ship was to the USS Saratoga in Star Trek IV. But the 2 Saratogas were the same class but looked different and so were the registry numbers .
So Riker was not an honorary Captain. He was frocked and wore 4 pips. Why did he wear 3 pips later in the show? Was he returned to the rank of Commander?
Admiral Hansen field promotes him to Capt when Picard is assimilated, field promotions sometimes stick, sometimes u return to ir previous rank, hence when Picard was rescued and retook command 🙂
Given that there are recognizable wrecks instead of debris I would assume that the warp core didn’t explode. Funny how a ship can be reduced to a lifeless wreck without exploding here but in other cases a few hits are all it takes to cause a near warp core breach. This scene may be dramatic but it is hard for me to not to notice how inconsistent these rules are. Star Trek pretends to be a a consistent whole but often changes the rules to suit a story. And what are those flashes? Fire? In a vacuum?
It's later established that many officers were assimilated here; I suspect that the Borg just pounded their ships until they lost shields and then just beamed up their entire crews en masse.
I read somewhere they were Gonna kill off Picard because Patrick Stewart didn't approve a scene they Wanted him to do so he gets called up to go upstairs and talk to his boss but was forced to wait 15- 30 Minutes still wearing The Captian Picard uniform.They tell him Personally they Understood his objection but reminded him he has a job to do. There was talk of Destroying The Enterprise the and get replacements I guess they showed him if he didn't cooperate he would be fired when he saw they would fire him he changed his mind and did the scene.Can anyone picture What the Next Season would be if Riker was Captian for the rest of the Series? would we have had Commander Shelby for the rest of the series? would First Contact and Nemisis have happend still? what do u think
There was a contract dispute and they weren’t sure if Patrick Stewart was going to leave the show or not. That’s why part one ends on that cliffhanger. I don’t think the plan was to destroy the Enterprise. It was just going to be Picard dying if Patrick Stewart decided to leave the show
@@YeoYeo32 It's interesting. Patrick Stewart wasn't the only one whose contract was up. Michael Piller's contract was also up; and the writing staff wrote themselves into a box. When Piller signed a new contract (thanks to intervention from Gene Roddenberry), he basically summed it up to "I had created an unsolvable problem" and had to figure it out. It wasn't till 2 days before they were scheduled to start shooting that they came up with using the Borg's strength of interdependence as the means to defeat them
@@YeoYeo32 It was actually the season 6 to 7 cliffhanger where they wanted to destroy the Enterprise, via having the Saucer crash because the staff really hated the D and it's sets at that point and wanted a cooler sleeker ship for more actiony bits similar to DS9. They were told no because 7 was the last season and they weren't going to create a whole new filming model and sets for just one year and to just stick with the D till the end of the show. When the films started they finally got their wish, destroying the D in the way they'd wanted during Generations and getting their "cooler" ship with the E for the last 3 films.
They were long gone by the time Enterprise got there. It's worth noting not every single ship at the battle was destroyed. Most were but some got away, and they were the ones who picked up the pods.
@@RandomAmerican3000 You're not serious? Wars with Cardassia, Romulans, and Klingons......nobody with combat experience? Not to mention numerous border skirmishes. And he's the helm of a huge battleship, very little experience needed. He's not some hot-shot top gun graduate of a small fighter.
I won't pretend to know how powerful the phasers or a photon torpedo is, but it seems to me that they are not as powerful as a good ol' fashion Nuke would be. Now if a starship could get 1 launched while a cube is down. I would think it would surely destroy it. But I'm guessing.
Doesn't seem like it based on WHAT? A matter-antimatter reaction would theoretically be several orders of magnitude more powerful than thermonuclear weapons. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimatter_weapon "The paramount advantage of such a theoretical weapon is that antimatter and matter collisions result in the entire sum of their mass energy equivalent being released as energy, which is at least an order of magnitude greater than the energy release of the most efficient fusion weapons (100% vs 7-10%)."
Matter/antimatter weaponry (the type of weapons that photon, quantum, plasmic and other torpedos are) is at least (in theory) a hundred times more powerful thana thermonuclear weapon. If a ship can shrug off a torpedo hit - basic environmental fields alone would be able to contain a nuke. Not to mention that basic transporter fields (which the Borg adapted into a WEAPON) would render the weapon useless.
@@2Scribble But on screen the detonations usually LOOK less powerful. Torpedo hits are usually against shields where they just light up the bubble or against a planetary surface and so look tiny.
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Easy to forget but at this point in the show this was the biggest federation fleet ever seen on screen and it got annihalted by one Cube. One... That was so scary to see as a viewer.
Worse than that, between Alpha and Beta sources, we have NEVER had a full list of those forty starships.
@@kadindarklord USS Ahwahnee, USS Bellerophon, USS Bonestell, USS Buran, USS Chekov, USS Firebrand, USS Kyushu, USS Liberator, USS Melbourne, USS Princeton, USS Roosevelt, USS Saratoga, USS Tolstoy and USS Yamaguchi. With USS Endeavour a possible based on the Encyclopedia and implied in Voyager, USS Gage from unused dialogue from DS9, Admiral J.P. Hanson's Galaxy class starship (in the script), a Constitution class (or similar type of ship) and a Nebula class variant (original Melbourne until DS9).
Beta gives us USS Porksauce, USS Righteous, USS Hoagland, USS Kadosca, USS Star League and USS Victory.
I had nightmares of the borg in high school lol. I couldn’t tell anyone because I was a closeted Trekkie lol!
Until the sacrifice of angels.
@@ShannonCarter55 Porksauce? In the future we will have the USS TurkeyGravy? or the USS ChickenWings? (yeah yeah I know, I just hate the name and wonder how it came to be) LOL
No matter how many time I see that scene, it ALWAYS makes my skin crawl... The reactions from Shelby and Riker... a mix of fear and helplessness. Hell, even Worf seems to have this 'How the hell is that possible? How are we going to beat them?' look on his face. Then the music kicks in, and we see all those wrecks...
Perfection - pure and simple.
Keeping in mind that Riker had been offered command of the Melbourne shortly before all this, I always imagined his internal monologue went something like this:
"Damn, that could've been me! I mean, I really dodged a bullet on this one. Wait, remember to look sad - Starfleet officers are dead and ships are destroyed. This is serious! No, Will, stop thinking about how happy you are to be alive! Whatever you do, don't smile! Just look down at the floor and _don't_ smile."
Chef's kiss: Captain Picard has been turned into a Borg Leader knowledgeable of Starfleet's playbook for war. 🤌💋
I think he realized even the Klingons would fall to that level of power
One of the most shocking moments in Star Trek.
When Shelby started naming ships that had been lost, ending with the Melbourne, you can see a number of thoughts going through Riker's mind. He, of course, mourns for those lost, but you can also see him think, "I could've been here and perished with them." He was offered the chance to captain the Melbourne, but turned it down. That decision saved his life, from death and/or assimilation.
No. That was him thinking, if he was Captain of the Melbourne he might have saved the crew.
@@Mellowcanuck33I'd personally say a bit of both.
The CAPTAIN..... will Go DOWN, with His SHIP....
And in a roundabout way, saved the entire Federation as a result.
The Melbourne. The ship Riker turned down command of. If he'd taken the post, he'd be dead now too :(
Probably also a little survivors guilt too right? He's probably wondering "if I'd been here, could I have saved her and her crew?"
Yes. Also, it’s named after the great city of Melbourne in Australia and not the city in Florida.
It was a nice touch but also a little cheat. "We want Riker to stay on the Enterprise!"
Mikey McMikeFace 🖕🏻
Or possibly not dead, because the ship would have different leadership
I shat bricks when I saw the wreckage of the fleet the first time when this aired for its first run.
Anyone else notice the music cue at 1:13,It was The ending of "Eternal Father, Strong To Save". That Hymn was commonly played at funerals or services held for Sailors lost at Sea or killed in combat. Very small detail but nice nod nontheless!
"For those in peril on the sea..."
Yes, the tune is exactly right if you compare it to a solo rendition of the hymn.
Amazing
True, they didn't have the budget to film the actual battle at the time, but this is one of those cases where nothing is scarier. You don't see the battle, just the aftermath.
To anyone watching this clip that’s too young to remember the context of the episode, all this destruction was done by ONE Borg Cube.
Yeah, when the Borg were still being written as a force of nature, before their nerf.
@@Alamandorious Way back when Q wanted to impress on Picard what danger really was
@@theccpisaparasite8813 Yeah. The way I see it is that they wrote themselves into a corner with the Borg as they were, so they had to break them.
despite the lack of realism (like almost always in Sci-fi) these two episodes are emotionally intense, dramatic and somehow "right". this is one of the most memorable scenes.
lmao, okay, tellin me that shit ain't realistic, bull
This is what happens when you put Miranda Class Starships in the front lines.
They sent an oberth. They'd had better luck with the cube if they'd gotten out and threw rocks at it. They were a slap together fleet trying to use outdated tactics to take down a superior enemy. How did they think this was gonna go?
Mirandas aren't the redshirts of the fleet. Heck, every space battle I've witnessed:
Wolf 359: 1 confirmed.
Sector 001: 0.
Operation Return: 3.
First Chin'toka: 1.
Second Chin'toka: 2+.
Cardassia: 2.
Compared to:
Wolf 359: well the entire fleet except as as-yet confirmed 1 starship (either USS Endeavour or USS Victory).
Sector 001: 1 Akira, 2 Sabers, 4 Steamrunners, 1 Oberth?
Operation Return: 1 Steamrunner, 3 Birds of Prey.
First Chin'toka: 2 D'deridex, 3 Birds of Prey, 2 Vor'chas, 2 Akiras, 2 Excelsiors.
Second Chin'toka: 311 out of 312 ships. Only survivor is a Bird of Prey, the I.K.S. Ki'tang.
Cardassia: 1 Excelsior, 1 Steamrunner, 1 Bird of Prey, 1 Vor'cha, 1 Romulan Flagship.
So Mirandas aren't redshirt ships. That clearly belongs to the Akiras (much as they are praised) and Steamrunners.
@@TheTribalgame Pretty sure the fleet was composed of whatever ships were close enough to get there in time.
To us Sci FI fans back in the day this was like Who Shot JR?
These two episodes of the Borg war were awesome to watch when they originally aired! I was on the edge of my seat when I first saw them!
Riker, coming out of warp: "PicaAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRD!"
James t kirk: Kkkkkhhhhhaaaaaannnnn nn!!!!!!! Sorry wrong man.
pppppppiicccccaaaaaarrrrrrddddddd!!!!!!!!!!!!😡😡😡😡😡
Wolf 359 is a real star system
Yeah. we know.
@Tin Watchman before google too
I've been there a few times.
And? Many of the systems in the series are real.
39 ships destroyed 11000 lost killed or assimilated. the federations worst loss in a single battle in its history.
Until the Dominion War where entire fleets were wiped out such as the 7th fleet; 14 ships out of 112 made it back to Federation held space
@@NatureismyHome-cu6zs military loss goes by percentages and wolf was 99% losses not even the 7th fleet massacre gets that high close but not quite. but yes i know what you mean in terms of total loss of life the dominion war topples it completely no questions. but per single engagement based on unit strength wolf was and still is number one with 99% losses only the enterprise survived and just barely at that. it exists burned into the federations mind of just how woefully incapable they were when facing a real threat. by the time the jem hadar rolled around the federation for the most part had gotten its shit together.
@@NatureismyHome-cu6zs It was the worst up to this point. We also don't know how many people were lost in the Seventh Fleet.
Given what we learned in DS9, I would guess a lot of the losses were civilians, who couldn't get off before the battle. I would hope that during a time of war, all civilians off their ships.
"Battle", nothing. That was a massacre.
@@kadindarklord Starfleet should never have allowed civilians on ships. Or had windows ffs. Structural weaknesses.
00:37 when you put on ESPN to see how your team did last night.
She dedicated her career to getting ready, but faced with reality Shelby realized how unprepared they were. And decades later, she would lose her life to a more insidious tactic from the Borg.
She kept Riker on his toes ... it was easy to feel annoyed by her in the original run, but in the decades since I respect her character, and in a way it did seem kinda silly for the plot armor to keep the Ent-D crew as static as they were over 7 years.
Supposedly Shelby isn't dead according to Terry matalas
Neither is Ro Laren, and I’ll take Terry’s word.
Static? Okay then. Medical Officer switched for a season. Wesley moved up to main cast, then off the show. Ensign Ro... the list goes on
@@PeachWookiee Actually, what he said was he intended to film scenes saving them, but didn't have time. Doesn't mean they're alive. Star Trek officially lists her as deceased.
And of all who lost people, friend or family. . . A certain individual would blame Picard for something that was never his fault.
Caine7ify - The reaction of Captain Sisko upon first meeting Picard when he took over Deep Space Nine. He was visibly angry and pretty much hated Picard even though they’d never met.
I love that they used Wolf 359 for Sisko’s backstory. It gave both him, and this story far more weight.
Fucking locutus killed Sisko's wife 😠
Seeing the battle of Wolf 359 from another perspective at the start of DS9 was such a cool and memorable way to introduce the new series. Watching hundreds die in a hopeless battle from the very beginning really helped set the darker tone of that show, and beyond that it was just an epic spectacle.
@@johnathanlewis7059 Granted, he wasn't 100 Borged up and still looked human enough. I'll always think these feelings were unjust, but that's just me
I always loved the carpeting on the galaxy class ships
I think that it enhances the dramatic impact of this episode that we don't actually get to see the battle here; it was all over almost as soon as it began, and even if the Enterprise had made it on time, there would just be another burnt-out hulk hanging lifeless in space.
It's also worth noting that this was the biggest battle that had ever taken place in Star Trek up to this point, and the first one that the Federation lost so badly.
They probably should have studied The Battle of Trafalgar and not all arranged themselves in a neat little line pre-battle, but other than that they still had no chance.
How scary the Borg were supposed to be.
With the role of captain also comes the shirt tucking responsibility (even though other crew members often do it as well anyway😄)
If you want an idea of the ships seen at Wolf 359, the last ship we get a look at Is a constitution class.
A ship that entered service 120 years before the battle.
A ship that can barely do Warp 8 in an emergency.
A ship that was being withdrawn in 2293.
A ship that's simultaneously larger and smaller than a Miranda.
A ship that was barely a match for Klingon Vessels at the tail end of the 2200's.
A fucking constitution class.
There apparently were some Oberth too, a ship infamous for being downed in one shot by a Klingon war vessel in an era of its *CREATION* and one of the ships that was not supposed to even *BE* anywhere near actual battlefield - as it was a science ship.
I thought the idea was as most top of the line ships would be out exploring a pack of 40 strong mixed fleet of older ships could do enough to halt the advance while they assembled a better line nearer Earth and then these would fall back for repairs etc. Problem is the Borg were too strong at this stage. I think using those old ships was a reference to old naval ships being required to form a reserve fleet ready to launch if needed but nowadays an old battleship wouldn't last long against modern weaponry.
@Tin Watchman To be fair, part of it was just filming constraints. They had a half destroyed model of the original 1701 from Search for Spock and they added that into the scene.
I don't know where you're getting the idea that the Connies were "barely a match" for the Klingon ships. The Enterprise when she was relaunched was capable of taking to task three Klingon cruisers. The K'tinga was the direct response from the Klingon empire to the Constitution refit program, and it was still not up to snuff. Connie II's were old, but they were more than capable. They were being decommissioned after teh Khitomer Accords as a symbolic gesture. They had become the symbol of the conflict between the two sides.
Honestly, seeing how dangerous just a single borg cube was makes the journey of the U.S.S. Voyager far more impressive
I watched the original airing of BoBW part 1 and 2. It sucked I had to wait for the next season for bobw part 2. This was way back in June of 1990. Then I had to wait till Sept to see the 2nd. I can't believe it. Watched it on channel 15. UHF TV.
The trumpet score is gangsta and this whole scene is playa shit
Funny thing is, this score help get Ron Jones fired from the series. Too bombastic the producers (Rick Berman) said. Plus, Jones did have this tendency to go over budget.
I just saw this episode a few days ago for the first time and I literally started crying seeing the ships!! 😭 And when the admirals transmission went dead too cuz I knew he'd been killed.,.. Wolf 359 was where Sisko's wife was killed. Sisko was on one of those ships with his wife and Jake... Fucking locutus!!! 😠
Ok for starters Locutus is Picard, second here's the number of ships going against the cube: 40.
2 survived.
38 ships of the Miranda, Nebula, Constitution, New Orleans & Excelsior classes, among others.
And 2 made it away.
@@Ty-yt3lj but why would Captain obvious call himself Nintendo? 🤔
@@Ty-yt3lj 1...1 made it out alive and that was heavily damaged. Unless your counting the Enterprise, then it would be 2.
Commander Shelby... Always so hot in her command uniform... Yum.. Elizabeth Dennehy looks good in 2019!
God damn it, Eiffel.
There’s no empty man in sight
it’s sad to see space being filled with the vessels that have battled the Borg and failed 😢
I remember Riker was offered command of the Melbourne just before this episode.
No escape pods. Of course I doubt the Enterprise would have been able to save that many.
Why would there be? The borg would have scooped them up and assimilated them
@@JetfireQuasar the one surviving ship likely managed to rescue as many as possible before fleeing out of range.
Locutus wiped the space floor with them.
What's interesting in Star trek online they never went back for the ships. They made it a memorial of that day.
Remember that 2 parter, I think it was unification where the enterprise went to that starship junkyard in space looking for the t'pau? You can see some of the wolf 359 wrecks in that scene.
My dumb ass, clicking on this, thinking it was the audio drama and not the goddamn star trek episode:
I bet Rikers really glad he didn’t take that promotion now
No, that look on his face wasn't gladness. It was guilt. He was wondering if he should've been there instead of the captain who was killed
"Err, I'll happily take that promotion."
"As captain of a starship? You've not long entered the academy, Mr. Harry Kim. Keep bugging for a promotion and you'll never get one on your first deep space assignment."
So there was a certain point when Picard was a Borg and they (Riker, Data and the rest) failed to rescue Picard-hence the timeline changes when Worf was jumping from timeline to timeline in a later episode, I think it was called “Parallels”
I know there were advances in technology specifically to fight the borg after this, but it makes it hard to believe Voyager was the exact opposite of this, one ship vs an entire fleet.
I may be in the minority, but Voyager never had a sense of reality. Given that they are TV shows, ST:TNG and DS9 atill seemed "real", the world building was carefully done.
Voyager much less so.
I liked some Voyager characters but never liked the show.
Recently the Orville aired their "Borg" 2 parter Identity. In many respects it was equal and some better then Best of Both World. After all the plot is almost the exact same with one major difference.
In the Orville we saw the actual space battle. It looked awesome and did have tension and stakes which is unusual for many modern shows and films. Trek on the other hand though didn't show the live battle (until Emissary) and only showed the massacre of Wolf 359. Because of this the stakes and the tension was much higher then the Orville battle.
This comparison shows a change in production and directing over the ages. The 80s/90s focused more on subtle and non-direct means of delivering the story. Today most shows and movies will just throw everything at once hoping you will be stunned in awe enough to not realise that it is super predictable and rather boring. It isn't universal mind, but it is a shame that the general audience has dumbed down where producers don't feel that actual tension and stakes without an explosion every minute is worth it
Of course, the Borg could only send one Cube. Because if they had sent two, they would have WON. And we can't have THAT! (Although Guinan and others said that the Borg always "swarmed" so it was jut BS to keep Earth from losing.) Same kind of thing with the First Contact movie: If the Borg had gone back in time FIRST, and THEN gone to Earth, they would have WON. So that couldn't happen.
chills when ever the view screen gets turned on
Why have we not made a mini-series or at least movie on this battle? There is so much story and lore that, if done with the same care as Picard Season 3, would be incredible to see
1:19 The wrecked model of the Enterprise from Star Trek III: The Search for Spock.
I always thought the Enterprise was at the battle of Wolf 359 somewhere along with Sisko. 🥺
Picard was, as Locutius
That's why the Destiny books were so good. 7,000 Borg cubes laying waste to the Alpha Quadrant. Many worlds seen in TOS and TNG annihilated and rendered lifeless. Romulans, Cardassians. Klingons, Talarians, Nausicans, Ferengi all destroyed. That’'s what the Borg would have done after previous failures.
waaaaaaaaiit wait wait wait... Did you made a mistake? is your "0" button malfunctioning? are you telling me someone wrote a book about 7000 cubes attacking?
@@som3body3 Yes it is true. In the novel verse of Stark Trek, the Borg get pissed off after Voyager's return to the Alpha Quadrant and decide to blitz through the Alpha Quadrant, burning it all to the ground. The Borg are finally definitely defeated but 60 percent of Starfleet is destroyed and 63 billion people and scores of worlds are gone (an example is Risa).
You don’t see it but the USS Cheyenne namesake Cheyenne class made it back to Federation space, though probably not under it’s own power
I assume the Kyushu was also salvaged, and Enterprise survived its encounter.
But everything else was most likely destroyed.
Constitution was probably salvageable though
USS Ahwahnee was the ships name it later becomes part of Picard's Tachyon net at the Romulan/ Klingon border to prevent the Romulans from aiding the Duras family during the Klingon civil war .
@@andysahs1599 model had a different registry to the latter ship. Much as they retconned it. I see Ahwahnee as being salvaged, it wasn't a confirmed survivor. Beta Canon also says Yamaguchi went through the same recovery process. It has to be another ship.
@@ShannonCarter55 I agree the Ahwahnee is not seen on screen it could be a different class than the one seen at wolf 359 maybe this one was named in honor of that ship just like the USS Saratoga Sisko's ship was to the USS Saratoga in Star Trek IV. But the 2 Saratogas were the same class but looked different and so were the registry numbers .
TNG Borg: relentless, unstoppable, mysterious, utterly alien
VOY Borg: little more than a nuisance
Good thing Riker turned down that offer to command the Melbourne.
If he had been CO of the Melborne: R.I.P capt William Riker
This reminds me suicide mission from Mass Effect 2
So Riker was not an honorary Captain. He was frocked and wore 4 pips. Why did he wear 3 pips later in the show? Was he returned to the rank of Commander?
Admiral Hansen field promotes him to Capt when Picard is assimilated, field promotions sometimes stick, sometimes u return to ir previous rank, hence when Picard was rescued and retook command 🙂
So not the Wolf 359 with the sentient plant??
11,000 dead.
... Oh such litter!
Sleep...sleep.
The Wolfe System
Is Real.
The Wolfe Star is a Main Sequence star
quite similar the the
Sun
DML
Given that there are recognizable wrecks instead of debris I would assume that the warp core didn’t explode. Funny how a ship can be reduced to a lifeless wreck without exploding here but in other cases a few hits are all it takes to cause a near warp core breach. This scene may be dramatic but it is hard for me to not to notice how inconsistent these rules are. Star Trek pretends to be a a consistent whole but often changes the rules to suit a story. And what are those flashes? Fire? In a vacuum?
Also, where did the escape pods go? Benjamin Sisko escaped in one here. Guess that part was made up later when DS9’s pilot was written.
I think they were all assimilated by the cube
@@callumwearne7870 : I guess Sisko got really lucky then.
It's later established that many officers were assimilated here; I suspect that the Borg just pounded their ships until they lost shields and then just beamed up their entire crews en masse.
@@jaimebabb9968 : yes, and the Borg must have some magical way of preventing the core from going kabloowy while pounding the ships. :-)
I read somewhere they were Gonna kill off Picard because Patrick Stewart didn't approve a scene they Wanted him to do so he gets called up to go upstairs and talk to his boss but was forced to wait 15- 30 Minutes still wearing The Captian Picard uniform.They tell him Personally they Understood his objection but reminded him he has a job to do. There was talk of Destroying The Enterprise the and get replacements I guess they showed him if he didn't cooperate he would be fired when he saw they would fire him he changed his mind and did the scene.Can anyone picture What the Next Season would be if Riker was Captian for the rest of the Series? would we have had Commander Shelby for the rest of the series? would First Contact and Nemisis have happend still? what do u think
There was a contract dispute and they weren’t sure if Patrick Stewart was going to leave the show or not. That’s why part one ends on that cliffhanger. I don’t think the plan was to destroy the Enterprise. It was just going to be Picard dying if Patrick Stewart decided to leave the show
@@YeoYeo32 It's interesting. Patrick Stewart wasn't the only one whose contract was up. Michael Piller's contract was also up; and the writing staff wrote themselves into a box. When Piller signed a new contract (thanks to intervention from Gene Roddenberry), he basically summed it up to "I had created an unsolvable problem" and had to figure it out. It wasn't till 2 days before they were scheduled to start shooting that they came up with using the Borg's strength of interdependence as the means to defeat them
@@YeoYeo32 It was actually the season 6 to 7 cliffhanger where they wanted to destroy the Enterprise, via having the Saucer crash because the staff really hated the D and it's sets at that point and wanted a cooler sleeker ship for more actiony bits similar to DS9. They were told no because 7 was the last season and they weren't going to create a whole new filming model and sets for just one year and to just stick with the D till the end of the show. When the films started they finally got their wish, destroying the D in the way they'd wanted during Generations and getting their "cooler" ship with the E for the last 3 films.
"MYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY GOD!"
Captain Sulu?
It's full of stars.
ONE CUBE did that.
WWOR in New York
Where Shaw became # 10
No life signs? There should've been pods for enterprise to pickup... sisko
They were long gone by the time Enterprise got there. It's worth noting not every single ship at the battle was destroyed. Most were but some got away, and they were the ones who picked up the pods.
Wolf system? Where's Picard?
Lee Lorenz the Borg kidnapped him made him one of them and gave him a new name Locutus
You gotta watch the show to fully understand
Why is there a kid at the helm when you’re entering a war zone? Shouldn’t you have a pilot with combat experience?
But the Federation is all peace, love, and gumdrops. Where would you find a pilot with combat experience?
@@RandomAmerican3000 You're not serious? Wars with Cardassia, Romulans, and Klingons......nobody with combat experience? Not to mention numerous border skirmishes. And he's the helm of a huge battleship, very little experience needed. He's not some hot-shot top gun graduate of a small fighter.
@@blusafe1 No. I wasn't being serious.
3 years late but that kid's MOTHER is CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER of THE FEDERATION'S FLAGSHIP, so he gets a pass.
I won't pretend to know how powerful the phasers or a photon torpedo is, but it seems to me that they are not as powerful as a good ol' fashion Nuke would be. Now if a starship could get 1 launched while a cube is down. I would think it would surely destroy it. But I'm guessing.
The matter antimatter warhead of a photon torpedo. Has far more destructive power than that of a thermonuclear warhead.
It doesn't seem like it, but I will take your word for it.
Doesn't seem like it based on WHAT? A matter-antimatter reaction would theoretically be several orders of magnitude more powerful than thermonuclear weapons.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimatter_weapon
"The paramount advantage of such a theoretical weapon is that antimatter and matter collisions result in the entire sum of their mass energy equivalent being released as energy, which is at least an order of magnitude greater than the energy release of the most efficient fusion weapons (100% vs 7-10%)."
Matter/antimatter weaponry (the type of weapons that photon, quantum, plasmic and other torpedos are) is at least (in theory) a hundred times more powerful thana thermonuclear weapon.
If a ship can shrug off a torpedo hit - basic environmental fields alone would be able to contain a nuke. Not to mention that basic transporter fields (which the Borg adapted into a WEAPON) would render the weapon useless.
@@2Scribble But on screen the detonations usually LOOK less powerful. Torpedo hits are usually against shields where they just light up the bubble or against a planetary surface and so look tiny.
I can solo borg squads in TFO.
And no one survived? That’s bullshit
Actually, *one* Starfleet ship did survive: the USS Endeavour (NCC-71805) which under the command of capt Joseph Amasov
I think I saw there Leia Organa floating in space..... XD
Bahahahahahahahaha