(176)The Beta Battles Of Wolf 359
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 มี.ค. 2023
- In today's episode of Truth OR Myth Beta, we're taking a look at some of the Beta Canon Starships that participated in the Battle of 359! I hope you enjoy!
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I love how they made Captain Shaw a wolf 359 a battle survivor from the battle with PTSD
Starfleet really needs councilors...mental upkeep should not be an issue by the 24th century
The current captain of the Titan - A is also a 359 veteran. Just some guy from Chicago who got chosen to live on the only remaining life pod. He's basically the Anti-Sisko he never got over the pain of battle thanks to wormhole aliens.
@@CM-wv8ns They do! That's just how we Dipshits from Chicago(tm) deal with things. 😉
I would love CBS to do a strange new worlds style series based with Shaw and Seven. I hope they make it happen considering Pike got his series after appearing on discovery.
@@jameslyddall It really would be nice now that Picard has found its voice.
Seriously, first two seasons had moments of amazingness, but I just never felt... Right.
I don't want to come off as insulting to anyone who did like the prior seasons mind you (My non-enjoyment does not invalidate yoru enjoyment and your enjoyment does not invalidate my opinions on its faults,) but I just feel so much more at home with S3.
The Oberth should have cut its losses early and saved the fleet by just warping into the cube; Its fate would have been the same regardless. 😜
LOL
"The borg is the ultimate user. They are unlike anything you've ever faced'- Q
:)
You haven't met my cousin
It's like Mike Tyson said: Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth...
History seems to always favor the winners in any battle. Whoever wins the battle will have any number of people they can call heroes. The other side of the coin is when a battle is lost and where the combatants get a good shellacking, the heroes are often forgotten.
It is well that starfleet remembers who the individual heroes were at Wolf 359 and also to learn from battles it lost. From the battles that came after Wolf 359 it can be seen that Starfleet learned from their loss. They came back stronger and more focused.
Loved The Borg pc game, played the hell out of it back in the old days.
Oh me too :) Now it sits in my Trek Display Cases as a reminder of the past ;)
Forget about all that weird shit you heard about the Stargazer. The real Borg are still out there, and they have a name for you, Locutus of Borg. The only Borg so deadly, the gave him a God damned name! Goosebumps every time.
I would like to hear the story of the ship that survived the battle. Since we know that people from other ships escaped in life pods and that the Enterprise didn’t detect any when it made it to Wolf 359, we have to assume at least one ship still had the ability to rescue people from the life pods, warp away, and keep the Borg cube from noticing.
Or the cube slurped them all up by transporter
I still want to find out what Connie met her fate at Wolf 359 since we know once and for all that it wasn’t NCC-1701 A
It makes you wonder if it was a Academy ship that got drafted because Starfleet became so stagnant they didn't have much of fleet to protect the earth. It also explains why the USS Republic is still in service the newer ship got blown up.
Maybe it was the republic
Sorry but that is not canon or even Beta Canon, it is simply the opinion of another TH-camr and therefore carries no weight what so ever! Until Canon tells us otherwise, we simply don't know which Connie(s) participated in the battle. So be careful what you declare as fact, since it isnt!
I wonder how Starfleet officer's on those vessels reacted to seeing the Captain of their organisations flagship, on their viewscreens, is now Locutus of Borg and leading the fight against them (even not at Picard's free will).
I love how amouevrable the Ambassador and Nebula class' looked as well during the fight in the pilot of DS9, and of course great to see an Ambassador getting some more screen time as well.
Out of all the ships (besides a Galaxy class) I would choose to command from this mix of ships, it would probably be the New Orleans class.
I think it would be good if there was a full list of all the vessels lost/severely damaged.
A great video, and as always, peace and long life
They were probably thinking oh
🤬🤣
They were shocked and in awe about Picard being assimilated and tried and failed to stop the Borg cube because they were not prepared for this kind of invasion
Thanks :)
@@jasonparis5635
Kinda reminded me of Rob Schneider in demolition Man.
'we're police officers, we're not trained in this kindve violence'
🤣👍
In the Emissary novel Captain Storill of the Saratoga (Siskos ship) says ‘Picard’ when he sees him on screen with a look of total shock.
Thank you for the in-depth of Wolf 359
You're welcome Jeff :)
All the federation needed to defeat the borg was one janeway....
I would argue the reason Janeway succeeded is because everyone else before her failed--she knew what NOT to do based on historical analysis of ineffective tactics of Wolf 359. If she was at Wolf 359 when it took place, chances are she and crew she served alongside would have been defeated--and if she was lucky, maybe she waslike Sisko, making it to an escape pod with other traumatized survivors
@@CM-wv8ns that, and Janeway has an ex-borg aboard.
Plus, as the hero ship of a series, multiphasic adaptive plot armour
@Chris-et2fm well... Janeway was able to further increase her knowledge based on intel gleemed from Seven & subsequent encounters with the Borg
In the Star Trek/Doctor Who crossover comic Assimilation², the Eleventh Doctor along with Amy and Rory travel back to the Battle of Wolf 359 to recover a copy of the Borg central archive from the cube during the battle after the present version was destroyed following the Borg's alliance with the Cybermen ending. Amy asked if they could stop the battle, but the Doctor said he couldn't as it was a Fixed Point in Time that had to happen.
This was a good video. Thanks. But now I have to return to work.
You're welcome, and have a good day at work :)
The "Pax Foederatio"
was ill advised and short sighted.
Indeed it was!
5:46 Voyager discovered an escape pod from the Melbourne in a rift in the Delta Quadrant? That must have been a book because I watched every episode of Voyager and I don't remember seeing that at all.
Thank you very much for this nice Video
You are most welcome :)
Omg i love this video?will there be a part 2?:D
Depends on the channels audience ;) So get the video out there :P
You know you really have a very beautiful channel! Your definitely in the top five of my all time favorite Star Trek related TH-cam channels!
If comics can be taken as Canon one ship present but unaccounted for was The TARDIS.
“ it’s such a quiet thing to fall for final terrible is to admit it.” Knights the old republic II
Starfleet command be like: “hey we’re about to decommission that ship, let’s put it in battle against an unknown(mainly unknown) enemy!” What a fate🤦♂️
Imagine the battle raging on as more federation ships succumb to the might of the Borg cube, the Enterprise arrives on the scene to engage and possibly extract their assimilated captain.
Suddenly a transwarp fissure appears and a ship of unknown origins comes through.
Before anyone can comprehend what it is, the new ship emits a powerful beam that blasts right through the borg cube, immediately causing a cascade of explosions internally and along its hull.
The swiftness of Data's positronic brain is the only thing working on the Enterprise as he gets a lock on Locutus the moment the cube is disabled and beamed him out.
The cube now merely debris, the new ship, slowly moves towards its point of entry. Its slender frame looked like a squid, brown mottled hull that looked like skin.
The ship opens up transwarp and glides off into the fissure, leaving the Enterprise crew speechless in space.
Riker , as shocked as the rest of the Bridge crew , orders the Enterprise D into the ' rift ', , data quicky realises this is a form of fluidic space, or ' hyperspace ', they figure out between the Borg , transwarp network.amd this, that Starfleet can build ' an edge ' into it's ships, in the form of faster drive systems .
Faster warp speeds, and the ability to cross warp 10 , without any negative effect .
Then sensors detect , the ships that destroyed the cube, Picard attempts to negotiate, but is astounded to see ' Booth y ' on screen, faced with his old mentor, or so it seems Picard learns, a future starfleet ship ,ended up making an alliance with the Borg with species' 8472 , data postulated, that this species, like Guinan , who also told picked the same thing , prior to his conversation on the bridge with 8472. However he is able to convince them, that those events have not happened, that Picards shi and crew are the voice of Starfleet , and now that they know , that Starfleet security, or those working under article 14 section 31 , of the charter , will see to it, all future commissioned shops, have an omega directive style system in place . Sadly the system fails the future voyager at the time , and completes ' the loop ', meanwhile at wolf 359 , species 847, mange to stop another two transwarp conduits from opening , thus saving the federation, but then they say one day , they will meet again, and it won't be so friendly , Picard and co decide this event must be something of interest to the department of temporal investigation, so male a pledge to keep it a secret , even from command, and anyone they know , in a similar vein to the cover up over the USS Discovery and it's fate, the Enterprise D , with agreement from 8472, bury the evidence , all records are believed purged , but Like as always with ' Trek ', not everything goes exactly as planned, because lurking close by are two of the huge , 4 nacelled Section31 Dreadnaught ships, last seen in Discovery . these ships, by the time of the Enterprise D can even eavesdrop on individual conversations and voice match to any crew member on a ship, regardless of its shield status . They become aware of the pact Picard hasade with 8472, and after much debate , allow his plan to continue, leaving a future Voyager to its fate, to battle this new species , of course there is much heated debate .
So to off set this, it is section 31 , who installed the Tri cobalt devices , voyager left the alpha quadrant with , and although not used much during voyager , these weapons, taken from another ' temporal ' mission , were installed aboard the new starship voyager , Janeway did question, where they came from , but was told to drop the matter , her priority lay in the badlands , meanwhile back at Wolf 359 , everyone went to where they should have been , and history unfolded as we know .
All bar the assistance from section 31 , and one satisfied section 31 head , one Old starfleet captain or so it seemed, Philippa Georgiou stood on the deck of the USS Fireblade , Section 31's finest , albeit now they had mapped the entire Borg transwarp network, and each entry and exit point , her crew discovered countless entery points , leading to all four quadrants , in all four quadrants, in short they had the means to prevent Voyager being stranded , but it needed to have it's experiences , in order to bring back the technology they would need, at the next encounter with the Borg , and thus another migraine giving piece of temporal mechanics, came about , instead P
Georgiou, gave the order , to cloak and head for home , wherever that was .
The D collected a few stray escape pods , and the rest is history ....
Good video
Glad you enjoyed it! :)
Is it bad that when I first saw the clip at 9:25 when I was watching TNG, I chuckled, it gives me the KV2 in WOT and Warthunder kind of vibe
LOL maybe just a bit :P
Which old constitution class ships were sent out, never to return? Those ships hadn’t really had a refit in decades. Be good to know what was sent out on a death sentence.
You'll have to wait for a future video (perhaps) to find that out :)
So which ship was the Admiral on?
I believe the EXCELSIOR Melbourne,it was the ship he arrived on in the show,and how they made a big deal on it being destroyed.but the script says the Galaxy class,so go with the script I guess.
It was a Galaxy Class, as evidenced by his transmission from the same Battle Bridge Riker used, and of course, the script!
Thanks for clearing up the Melbourne confusion. I recall reading (or hearing) somewhere that Starfleet can have only one ship with a particular name commissioned at a time, but it's interesting to see how a desperate situation like Wolf 359 would force them to break that rule. BTW, according to the Star Trek Encyclopedia, the Oberth-class ship was likely the U.S.S. Bonestell. 🖖😎👍
There was actually more then 1 Oberth Class vessel at the battle! And you're welcome!
🖖
Have you done a video on why some legacy ships get the -A/-B/-C etc suffix but others don't? Known canon ship names that didn't get a legacy suffix: Bellerophon, Buran, Constellation, Defiant, Endeavor, Excalibur, Farragut, Hood, Intrepid, Melbourne, Prometheus, Reliant, Saratoga, Stargazer and Sutherland. Ships that did get a suffix: Constitution, Titan, Voyager and Discovery.
MORE Please
Noted :)
1:26 what ship is that called in beta canon?
Its the Chiss Class
@@TriAngulumStudiosAudioComics Thank you very much!
Hey, April first, April fools day, is coming up. Perhaps a silly video on a custom kitbash starships (warships?) I'll take the saucer from Sovereign class, neck from Excelsior, secondary hull from Odyssey, and the nacelles from both the Prometheus (so they split) and the quad-style (dorsal/ventral) from the Stargazer. Can you do better?
This is probably a dumb question... why didn't Voyager's crew beam the escape pod-- or at least the survivors-- on board, then get the hell out of Dodge before the rift could trap it? 🤔
Wasn't possible!
I can't believe that the nubile class star ship was destroyed.
Why?
@@TriAngulumStudiosAudioComics a nubile class star ship is just as powerful as a galaxy class starship
Sorry you are incorrect... Though youd think so, a Nebula Class ship is actually slightly less powerful then a Galaxy Class... And both a Galaxy and Nebula Class were destroyed at Wolf 359!
The Tolstoy, the Kyushu were also there, along with 2 Klingon Warships, if memory serves.
This video is on the BETA Canon starships at Wolf 359, the ones you've listed are Alpha Canon!
@@TriAngulumStudiosAudioComics OOopppss!! Apologies. My bad.
LOL all good ;)
aside from star trek borg where did you get your info from pls?
Many MANY sources, novels comics etc!
What was that scenes about the USS Righteous? It's a game?
They could have used subspace weapons,etc to destroy the cube
I can see having Oberth around as a fleet communications sensor package but AWAY from the main formation andaway from anything like dust, paint chips, or a random sneeze that might cause the thing to explode.
Except thats not the case as the DS9 Pilot Episode Emissary shows an Oberth Class attacking the Cube!
@@TriAngulumStudiosAudioComics Exactly! It's madness. You don't send a nAWAC into the front lines. You hang that puppy back where its sensors can do good. Instead 'naw lets have this guy wit ha grand total of ONE phaser charge headlong in'
may as well have just thrown a naked warp core at the cube.
This may be a dumb question, but what "resources" would be wasted y building both much more robust and capable front-line Starfleet vessels? I can't imagine, with their technology, that they'd have to reduce planet-side construction and infrastructure to build more ships, since they use vastly different materials...
The Next Generation Era Starfleet had become stagnant in Piecetime so they focused on building new ships that would impress new races on First contact. As Honest Trailers put it the Galaxy Class was "a cross between a advanced space battleship with a Marriott convention center" they really thought they were prepared for anything and Q pointed out no worse is coming and he probably figured with advance warning Starfleet would actually win.
All creation and building requires designers, developers and physical materials... Those are the resources!
@@TriAngulumStudiosAudioComics a building designer is vastly different than a starship one, and they'd require very different materials
And yet, theyre all still resources!
I would like the Beta Canon sources cited in these videos, mostly in the description. I know the Righteous was from the "Star Trek: Borg" PC game, and before that, the escape pods were from Marvel's Voyager comic issues 10+11.
Hoagland- TOS Novel The Return, Melbourne- TNG Novel The Skys The Limit and Various Comics, Righteous- Star Trek: Borg Interactive Video Game Victory- TNG and Lower Decks Canon as well as Starship Creator the Video Game and the DS9 Novel Saratoga! And then there are various other snippets from decades of Comic Books on all ships... I will not be listing sources in the description however, I just dont have the time to do that on a constant basis!
If you go by the TNG novels wolf 359 isn't the worse in terms of losses in ships and people.Not that wolf 359 wasn't a disaster,but it will happen again cause all war is a disaster or conflict when u boil it down. Starfleet knew they had little hope of winning the battle,they had really no weapons systems that could really hurt the borg at that time. Admiral Hansen did his best,his only failure was not thinking outside the box cause of Picards knowledge that was stolen from him and not learning from The Enterprise Engagement after Picards abduction.Starfleet would still have lost at wolf 359 but they may have been able to minimize there losses by 10 percent or less.Great video.
Sorry my friend, Canon itself ALWAYS trumps Beta Canon, and Canon says, and has shown us, it was the worst :)
I agree its the worse defeat by the borg,by Canon,but Dominion losses by Canon in Tyra sector i belive, i feel was way worse just my opinion.Great video and respect ur view.
But there's a big difference... By the Dominion War, Starfleet and the Federation had changed it's approach, no longer being at the height of hubris, thinking it was prepared for everything! So the Dominion losses werent a surprise, and Starfleet was better prepared to adapt and deal with the situation... They were not prepared in spirit or assets for Wolf 359!
@@TriAngulumStudiosAudioComics True Ii can see that to a degree.please don't think I'm just arguing,I respect ur view,its a friendly discussion between fans and friends,Always good to find fans to talk with about these things.Great work and I enjoy it the talks.
Not at all! No worries :) I started this channel many Vulcan Moons ago to have these exact types of wonderful conversations :)
One thing I find interesting you didn't mention is that we actually got to see the captain of the Nebula USS Melbourne in TNG sort of. He was captain of the Enterprise in the possible timeline Q showed Picard where Picard avoided getting stabbed in the heart.
Well because
A) That non existent timeline has nothing to do with this
B) The Captain of the Nebula Class Melbourne was NEVER mentioned in Trek Canon, only in a Beta Canon of Short Stories, which since this video is about the Excelsior Class Melbourne, not the Nebula One, why in the world would I mention it? I dont fill my videos with unrelated, irrelevant information...
1: This is a video discussing Beta canon.
2: Both Melbournes are mentioned in the video.
1. Yes and? Again, not about the Nebula Melbourne
2: Only in relation to the name, again, this video is NOT about the Nebula Class Melbourne, so mentioning an unimportant, irrelevant Beta Canon assertion would be silly!
Wolf 359 was a unprepared battle because they didn't have enough time and information about the Borg. Could it happen again, yes it can happen again and it could be the Borg or some other race that want it all.
They were unprepared for the battle because they had let their ego inflate their abilities... It wasnt time, it was development during an era of peace as canon has shown us time and time again! :)
@@TriAngulumStudiosAudioComics They got a small amount of information when Q push the Enterprise to place where was only one Borg cube. Most of the ship in the battle where old star ship also. They where on anti Borg weapon but they where not ready. So even if they had large amount of ship, these couldn't do the job at what was needed.
Yes... But they also dilly dallied! Arguing amongst themselves, not fully grasping the danger, feeling that a fleet could get the job done, again Hubris!
@@TriAngulumStudiosAudioComics true. One shouldn't never assume you're the most powerful fleet. Their maybe something more powerful then you.
865
I thought it was stated in Voyager when reading the logs over the battle that the nebula Melbourne survived the battle.
No, it did not!
According to this
m.th-cam.com/video/cxaJl4F4fLw/w-d-xo.html&pp=ygUJd29sZmUgMzU5
The Nebula class USS Endeavor was the sole survivor.
Another TH-camr is NOT a valid canon source!
Similar to this time: the war in Oekraine is a wake up call
Federation response:
1. wolf 359: it's a tragedy and a massacre.
2. dominion war: *BIG SHIPS!!!!!! BIG GUNS!!! MORE GUNS!!!! BIG SHIPS WITH MORE GUNS NOW!!!!! WE NEDDED THEM SECONDS AGO!!!! WHERE ARE THEY??? WE ARE GETTING OUR ASSES KICKED!!!! JUST BUILD THEM AND SCREW THE ANTI-WAR MINDSET!!!*
3. Star trek online and beyond: Were back bitc***!!!! Bring it!!!! You wanted it???? you will now get it!!!
Might I suggest that in future you include cards on the screen stating the beta canon sources for each of the stories? I'm impressed by your research, but I'd love to know where I could immerse myself more.
Though a great idea, I just don't have the time to do that. This is a hobby of mine not a job... And thus with family obligations, Ive streamlined the process as much as I can! Besides, these videos are designed to create interest in Beta Canon, and anyone interested can just do a simple google search to find what they need, as evidenced by you being the first and only person to ever make this request out of 10's of thousands of comments...
Actually, two vessels survived Wolf 359, one Federation, one Borg 🥴
🙄
What about the USS Roosevelt?
What about it?
@@TriAngulumStudiosAudioComics USS Voyager found a crewmen in the Delta Quadrant from the the USS Roosevelt that was in the battle at Wolf 359.
Lol and? This video is about 4 Beta Canon ships at the battle, 4 out of 40 ships...
The only time an Oberth class survived a battle
Uhhhhh No Oberth Class Vessels survive Wolf 359!
@@TriAngulumStudiosAudioComics It broke down on the way there lol
Lol no, they just were destroyed by the Borg!
You should remake this because the USS Constance was also there at that battle.
One day!
I find it hard to believe Any 2260's starships would still be in use by starfleet by then.
Most were being retired of changed hands to other uses. If anything , I think all vessels in the fight would be Excelsior lineage or later.
Well first, there were no ships from the 2260's there... There were ships whose designs went back to the 2270's IE The Connie Refit, but theres no telling as to when these particular starships were built... BUT it IS canon, they were there!
I hope (dearly) that you look at JTVFX's latest on the off camera events of BoBW1-2
5:18 it’s admitted not made clear, so I guess can be inferred…but if the Melbourne was slated for decommissioning, why then was the Melbourne being referred to as the ship cmd riker was being offered with a promotion to captain
It had been alluded to that the newer bigger upper tier project galaxy ships would go to proven captains, hence why Picard after proving himself on the stargazer was given command of the ship…for riker, newly promoted to captain to be offered the nebula class melbourne would at least on the surface seem to cut against this notion.
Neither point/side is (to my knowledge - there may be specific text in a novel which tells which riker was being offered) outrightly clarified.
As such, my confusion is recognised upfront as being a conclusion stemming from logical process of deduction based on prior evidence and methodology shown. We all know that trek had its fair share of in universe inconsistencies, this may well be one of them…
I mak this statement not as a “I am right”, but more as a “this is something we haven’t been told outright, but seems to fit the logic…do we know anything contrary to this?”
Your logic flawed...
Since it's canon that Riker was being offered Command Melbourne, and since the Old Excelsior Class Melbourne was in Spacedock for decommissioning, he could ONLY be receiving command of the Nebula Class Melbourne... And whether you agree with it or not, or with the reasoning Starfleet would offer it to him, they did, that's canon and therefore not confusing in the slightest!
Also, it has NEVER been alluded to that "that the newer bigger upper tier project galaxy ships would go to proven captains" And the circumstances of Picard receiving the Enterprise are unknown, so you cant really make up a fact to support your argument. Rikers proven career and service on the Flagship of the Federation may have been enough to get him a Nebula Class. Or Starfleet just picked it out of a hat... All we know is he WAS offered it's command! Take care
@@TriAngulumStudiosAudioComics I was unaware of any specific canon stating which, be it alpha or beta.
But thank you for clarifying, as stated, having nudge the edge of said line, I wanted to ensure my comment was taken as the calm and respectful questioning and invitation of discussion, as opposed to any sort of “I’m right and refuse to acknowledge I might be wrong” sense…
🖖🏻
Absolutely it was taken in the way you specified and I responded in kind! :)
@@TriAngulumStudiosAudioComics all good, just making sure, as both with my own mental “shortcomings”, and being text only, it can be at times difficult for me to be certain.
Your channel and content have been thoroughly enjoyable, and knowing your rules about conduct, I’m constantly over cautious about my comments and questions coming across the wrong way.
🖖🏻🖖🏻
No need to worry! All good :)
Worf 359 was a joke they send some of the Dumbest Ships