Propane is a pain like you said a big hassle to get refills or other canisters in the various countries...virtually impossible... plus propane is relatively high maintenance, subject to checks by insurance companies and in some cases authorities and ferry companies. Also propane can be dangerous. You don want to be in a gas explosion if you can help it... And obviously you helped yourself and left out the propane...good man !!!...
Good video. Glad to see someone who is actually doing what I'm contemplating in the future. I've looked at some decent quality companies which sell for more reasonable prices than Wabasto and Eberspacher. I've found a Chinese company which sells high end heaters both hydronic and air. One company is VVKB. They have a dealer in the USA. There is also a Russian company which sells both air and hydronic systems. They can be powered by diesel or gasoline. The company has a distributor in the USA. The name is Planar. They are also known as Autotherm. The Russians know all about battling cold conditions. Their stuff is supposed to be as good as the German companies. I've read that diesel units tend to clog with carbon when used at high altitude or on a continuous low setting. It's said that kerosene works a lot better. Supposedly a mix of 80% kero and 20% diesel keeps the fuel pump from wearing out. I've also read that #1 Stove Oil is basically kerosene. Also Jet-A aircraft fuel is highly filtered kerosene. Smaller airports supposedly will sell to folks who don't have airplanes. Both Stove Oil and Jet-A fuel sell for less than consumer grade kerosene. #2 Home Heating oil is basically diesel which has been dyed for tax purposes. It costs less than diesel because the price does not include road tax. I'm just reporting what I've read so far. Do your own follow up.
Can confirm on the Jet A - used to have Amish come in and buy barrels of the stuff for their lamps. We'd put a adapter on the end of the truck "duckbill" nozzles to fit the barrel openings and be limited to 7gpm which was a fraction of the wide-open flow rate. Was a pain but at smaller airports a customer is a customer. Supposedly it didn't smoke up their lamps like kerosene. Can also ask them if they have any sump fuel they are not using. Regulations require them to pull daily fuel samples and at the airport I worked at we had barrels of the stuff which was still fairly clean. We burned that stuff in the trucks and hangar heaters and still had more than we knew what to do with.
Those heaters were designed as an engine heater,,so u could hook up to your engine, then it keeps it warm as well,you then could add a small heater core with fan,,,we have them on our diesel trucks, with a timer ,,,,you could then tap off and run lines for in floor heating,,,great vid,,,and build,,
Hi Curt, thanks for your engineering experience with installation of the systems in your Van. One day I will build my own Van...one day :) So something pop up in my mind about your freezing problem under the Van. Most probably you did it or at least you have an idea, however 😊 one option is to wraps the pipes with electric wire heaters and control ON/OFF time. It is just idea...a lot more questions pop ups next, but i told you, I am giving just an idea 😊
Amazing setup!! Can't wait to see your next vedio. Hydronic system is also something that I am considering for my vanbuild. For my understanding, you are currently using a second coolent loop, separate from the engine coolant loop. Did you consider tapping those together like the hydronic system intended to do at the beginning. This can protect the engine during winter by pre heat the engine also warm up the room!
appreciate the topic.. in reality the info in the video is extremely vague. could you do one that has some content/detail such as; cost, btu, brands, how set up etc... that would be terrific
14:43 you mentioned linking to another brand of hydronic heater in the description, but it's missing? Could you let us know what it is, and what off-brand heater the professionals you talk to recommend? Thanks much Curt!
Hi Curt, I've already told you but this van rocks ! Everything inside this build is inspiring... I was just wondering if it would have been difficult / reliable / economic to add another heat exchanger in the loop and feed it with your engine coolant. It just needs the pump runnig while you are driving... So as long as you drive, you heat your hydronic fluid and you could just park and shower without using the heater... The main idea is not to waste the engine heat. Because you need to cool down the engine and heat your hydronic fluid, so maybe a simple heat transfer is an idea... Am I wrong ? I can't figure out if it worth the extra piping or not... Regards, Jacques-Olivier
Jacques, you are spot on. Two reasons I didn’t do that...1)I didn’t have the confidence I could do that myself, which leads into 2) I was concerned a failure in the added system could potentially lead to damage to my engine. I would say if there was no risk the way you described is the way to go. In fact, I may do a bit more research that modification as it would add to overall efficiency.
Conversely, with the systems tied together, the fluid could be switched to warm up the diesel motor...then possibly only one expansion tank would be needed. It would be imperative to be able to isolate the systems entirely in the event of a leak- easily done with quarter valves. Another consideration is filling the system so no air pockets remain. A vacuum coolant filler can be had for as little as $30. On the other hand, I think I could plan my showers (the only hot water I really need) around my engine run times which would simplify the system but still be the best way for a long shower time.
This is a great idea and it's what I'm thinking of for mine. How long does the system take to warm up to a usable level? I'm trying to work out this vs a calorifier system.
When you route the glycol across the exhaust do you do anything to protect the hose from the heat? Is there a best spot for the crossing? Did you install a heat shield?
Thanks for the video. Love the tech talks. Maybe this has been asked, I didn’t read all 190 comments and reply’s. How do you regulate the hot water? Especially in your recirculating shower. If it recirculates wouldn’t it just get hotter and hotter the longer you use it and the more it goes through the heat exchanger? Thanks in advance!
We put the shower handle on a little less than medium. It does start to warm up... But it doesn't get too hot for about 20 minutes... So the shower is perfect for a nice long shower.
Curt, what heat exchanger model did you use? I can't find it on your site... with the squirrel cage blower? I want to find and buy some but can't locate them. Can you help?
Yes, but you will not have unlimited water unless you are hooked up to a water source at an RV park type place. If you are getting water from your van water tank, you will have hot water, but you will not be able to take a long shower.
hydronic guy here - engine coolant (ethylene glycol) is poison. Systems using heat exchangers to heat our domesic water should always use food safe glycol (propylene) in case of failures poison glycol mix with our domestic water.
Amazing, as with most technologies you have used in your build. But did you explore radiant heated floors within the same system? It basically replaces the air heating component.
The heat exchangers are great technology but what I would like to know is after you switch off the heater, can you still get some hot water from the sink or shower and if so: how much please?? I opted (btw) for a salvaged indirectly heated boiler from a central heating boiler which stores 10 L of coolant and has a copper coil inside which I plumbed via a thermostatic mixer valve into the hot water line of the kitchen sink (my shower is as yet a bucket, a cup and a tarp in the bushes (yeah I like - not really - to rough it sometimes)
Hi Curt. Great videos, so thanks a bunch! Happy 2021! One question - how do you moderate the temperature of the water coming out the shower? I guess you don't use a thermostatic mixer valve because I don't see a separate cold supply... Or do you control the temperature to which the Hydronic heats the water in the loop? Or do you just take what comes out, assuming it never gets too hot because of heat losses in the whole system? Thanks in advance for your advice. Top channel. Yours combined with Greg Virgoe's gets me everything I need so far (at least in the planning stage!)
We use a mixer valve... Enough heat is lost in the system that it never gets too hot. But, there will be times that all of your water is warm for a bit!
What controller are you using for your Espar? When you install the radiator for heating the interior of the van will you trigger this off of the timer function only or have you figured out a way to control the on/off function of the espar with a wall mounted thermostat?
Hi Curt, I am always up with a long, hot shower so I am doing research into a recirculating shower system with hydronic heating. This is definitely one of the best videos on youtube regarding this topic, thank you sir! Just a few questions regarding this, since the Espar heater is just 5kw, is it enough to instantly heat up the water and keep it warm as you go (maybe a bit colder at the beginning but once the recirculating tank has filled with water it gets warmer?) Do you have any idea of the flow rate of your shower? Does the water get colder when you have a very long shower, to the point where it's too cold to shower with? Keep up the good work, greetings from England.
Turn the heater on about two minutes before getting in the shower... water is warm within 30 seconds of turning on water after that. The water is easy to maintain the proper temp. Never gets too hot due to a bit of temp loss as the water circulates thru the system... never gets too cold either.
Maybe this is not the case in the US, but in Canada Sprinters come with a Webasto Parking heater, why not just implement this with the Vehicles pre existing coolant loop and have the benefit of also keeping the engine warm, or use the engine itself (while driving) to heat the coolant?
Yep.... USA vans don't have that awesome feature! Curt's looked at this a bit and in hindsight would've maybe liked to add this in... But, no going back now! Thanks for the question... It's a good one!
Can you do a video specifically on your control system? Or at least describe it here? Or is your system right now just set up on a timer? If so, when does it turn on, when does it shut off? The mechanicals and plumbing seem pretty straight forward, but the controller is the thing I feel like I know least about. Someone suggested Inkbird or Pi or Arduino, but this is only half of it, where and how do you mount thermocouples, etc, some in water, some in the air, etc. Lots of questions about the control systems. Anything you can share? Thank you!
We have not done anything special there or made a video on it. Everything is handled with a wall unit and is not triggered by temps. We made add stuff later, but for now we manually flip things on. If you figure something cool out, be sure to keep us posted! Sorry we were not m ore help.
@@SnowAndCurt One more question! If you turn on the the coolant pump does it heat all your heat exchangers (so, for example, if you're running hot water for your sink, is the shower heat exchanger, or the air heat exchange, hot even if you don't have your shower turned on or are not running your air heater?)
If you watch one of our recent Q&A vids.... You will see Curt talk about how we winterized the pipes by circulating water during freezing temps. We don't want to test anything extreme, but we could handle 10-20 degree farenheight... we would need it to warm up a little during the day!
Hi Snow & Curt, great channel, enjoy your build and tech talks. Do you have any issue when your showering with the heat exchanger on the fresh water overheating, could there be a solenoid to bypass one or other heat exchanger.
We have not had the problem, but we never turn it all the way up... You just need a little hot water trickling in! But, there is surely a way to maybe pop a thermostat on there with a valve it something.... Let us know what you figure out!
Looking to use this system one day for our own van build. I am wondering how you use the hot water in summer without also heating the air inside the van? Do you have zone valves on the pipework to stop glycol reaching the heaters inside?
Thank you for this amazing video! Your series are extremely educational. :) 12:00 - I've always wondered... but then what if you need hot water in the summer? What do you do then? Do you feel if I get a simple LPG gas-boiler, that it would be enough to heat a well-insulated sprinter van?
Our hot water heat system can be used without hearing the air in the van! Tons of folks use propane to heat their vans... We stayed away from propane only because we are doing extensive international travel.... And the different fittings in different countries can make it difficult to fill your tanks!
Hi Snow & Curt. Loving your videos, thanks especially for the Hydronic hot water system videos, they are a huge help to me!! Your van is fantastic, well done!! I have a question for you about the electrical power consumption of the hydronic water system, can you give me an idea of the Amps it draws when heating up from cold please? How long does it take to heat the coolant, (I think I remember you stating it takes 5mins but not sure I have that right)? Does the Amperage draw lessen after the initial heat up please & if so, what is the amperage draw then? I'd appreciate any help you can give me. Looking forward to your upcoming videos! Stay safe both of you. Tracey (in the UK).
Yes... 3 to 5 minutes depending on outside temp! The heater is diesel operated, so the only power draw is the pumps... which is only when the water is running and is minimal! We do not know the exact amps. But, it is SMALL! Hope this helps!
Unfortunately, we didn’t video the build. We only learned about videoing and editing once we moved into the van... it’s something we regret! Thanks for tuning in Gary!
Well done! 👌 How long does it take to heat the water? I suppose the glycol needs about 10 minutes to heat up.. But as the shower water is at van temperature it will need à couple of minutes to be on the right temp.. But once hot, you can't go down with the temperature, right ? Do you have problems with too hot? Thank you
It takes about 5 minutes for the heat exchanger to heat up, after that we can control the temperature perfectly for an least an hour and probably a lot more we just have tested it for more. If the water is too hot we just turn it down a bit...Easy peasy!
like the barn swallows in the back ground, they travel 3-4000 miles every spring from south America to as far as southern Canada every year and back, they come back to the same barn every year.. watched your video for the Hydronic aspect.. University Of Colorado does studies on our barn swallows every year at our farm in Hygiene Co... Just saying! nice video on hydronics...seems like theirs some up fitters charging some astronomical amounts for what you have done..
Hi very interesting Is the heater you’re talking about the aux heater under the chassis/driver seat which heat the engine in cold climates If so how did you re wire it Cheers John from Newzealand
Do you think it’s the same as the aux one I have on my van ,mine is piped up to the engine as a pre heater on cold days,sounds like a jet engine when we run it.great interesting utube video keep it up and stay safe and keep traveling
@@johndyer9431 Yes, the aux heater in your van is the same, should be a D5. If anyone else is reading this, I have a 2005 sprinter with the D5WZ Eberspacher and it is located behind and below the right hand headlight as you look under the bonnet, or hood if you are in USA/Canada. I only mention this as a lot of Sprinter owners don't even know they have an Eberspacher fitted or what it does.
I have the same system in my van and have it all operational except the Kalori fan. I can't figure out for the life of my how to wire it. Do you have any pictures or videos of the wiring? It looks like it should be super simple but I can't figure it out. The one wiring harness is pretty straight forward but the second harness I can't figure out. It has a relay in the middle of on one side a single red/white wire with a clip that looks like it should plug into the back of a plastic connector. The other end has a solid black wire and a black wire with a violet stripe. I plan on only using the max speed of the fan so dont need to wire for the the other lower speeds. Any help or pictures would be greatly appreciated.
We built our van on weekends over a span of 8 months, honestly... I cannot remember how long we spent on the heater. Yes, the water we reuse can be circulated thru the system without coming out of the shower... so that we can run it thru the filtration system a bit more if we feel like we need to.
Yes! We know that it can, but we didn’t research all of the details for this option.... it would add a lil to the floor thickness... and curt has no room to spare - he’s 6’2”
Sorry to bother. Waiting for my van I try to purchase the needed stuff. I did buy through your website the telescopic leader and it seems a little bit to small for the van. What hight is yours?? I still can return it if it's not the right one. Thanks
Great video, thanks for doing these. Do you just close the loop to the floor during summer so you can still have hot water otherwise? Can you also use the hydronics for cooling floor/air too and thus do away with AC (maybe trade it for a dehumidifier)?
We actually do not have the heated flooring system... we thought about it, but opted out because we needed every inch we could of space so Curt would be able to stand up in the van. But, we would have for sure made a way to close off the floor loop if we would have. And... your cooling idea is interesting... if you research it more and decide to go for it, be sure to let us know!
daemorhedron :: Closing that heater loop is optimal in warm weather, especially if it can be repurposed, directed thru a dual-core heat exchanger near an *evaporator tube. My ambulance has (an excess heat production in a 42kBTU Espar M12 from a bus and) such an exchanger, so I’ll be routing hosing for a COOLING WALL (not floor b/c, well, heat rises) as recently demonstrated by a Princeton study (a cooling wall pulls heat from occupants and objects without byproduct condensation). Definitely post your process- and I’ll return the favor.
@@cluek9780 Great reply. Right now all I am doing is theorycrafting my own build. Very new to hydronics, hvac, heated floors, etc and tbh not particularly smart so will be a while before I produce anything but happy to share when I do. Would love to see what you've come up with though!
@@SnowAndCurt What is the capacity of the coolant expansion tank? Your parts link indicates it's a plastic tank designed for a Ford. How difficult was it to fit in the engine area of your Sprinter?
Hi again Curt and Snow. Another quick question about your coolant loop and reservoir: Do you operate the reservoir vented or closed? I don't see a coolant return to the reservoir on you diagram. Does it loop back to the reservoir?
I have been doing a ton of research for my upcoming build and came across your channel. Great stuff, I really appreciate you sharing your experience with all of the people out here.
The question is, how do you regulate the temperature in the radiant system (coolant)? Is there a separate thermostat in the flooring that keeps the temperature of the coolant loop at below 85 degrees F? Most flooring cannot handle radiant systems above 85 degrees and it can harm most wood/laminate flooring if the system runs hooter. How do you keep the PEX and the floor from being like 190 degrees? Having lived in Korea for years, I love floor heat and even sleep on a dol bed (stone bed) with radiant heat. [Google: Korean style dol bed]. I really want to put this system in my build, but do not want to ruin my flooring on top of it.
OUr heating system is not in the floor... it is under our van... so, we do not heat our floors. I can see how the diagram would make you lean that way though. Hope some of our stuff ends up helping you! Stay in touch and good luck with your build!
Did you put your van up on lift (like what they do oil changes on) in order to build out your below chassis pipes, tanks, accessories? Just wondering how you literally physically did all that. Thank you!!
We did not put it up on a lift... But, man, that would've been nice!! There were a lot of busted knuckles... Tweaked backs... And sore shoulders over the eight months of building our van! I guess the excitement of finishing each step along the way... And knowing that when the van was finished he could retire.... That drove Curt to do things that seem a bit crazy now!
This was very helpful! Now I understand the second heat exchanger. How long did your entire build take? You have one of the best builds, so I am curious what it will take to get similar results. Any chance you can provide a complete undercarriage plan /layout? Knowing what is in each available space of the undercarriage would be a big help. Thank you!
Jeff... if we would’ve started with a plan for the undercarriage from the beginning, we could easily share! But since we had to create a lot of the components from trial and error until we got it right, it would be super hard for us to draw up a plan. Lots of folks ask... and we wish we had one, but we do t! Sorry! Thanks for watching!!
The build took eight months on weekends mostly... with a few full work weeks when curt took vacation from his job! They were long tiring weekends! But, it’s all worth it now!
thank you for the info. do you have any videos of your system running? I am curious as to how it sounds, from inside the van and outside the van when running at full speed. I have heard these hydronic heaters can be very loud, so i'm wondering if the volume would keep me awake at night, or disturb nearby campers. any info would be appreciated. thanks!
We will try to do a sound text and get it in the next video for you guys! That's a great question. In the meantime, it's not too loud... Kind of a constant hum... No where near as loud as a generator. Stay tuned!
Yes... Agree 100%... Part of our van Life plan was to be more environmentally concious. I can't say we were always as good as we should have been. But, we have drastically reduced our footprint!
After a long day on the slopes... nothing is better than a long hot shower! After hiking a dusty canyon... nothing better that a long hot shower! After swimming with whale sharks in the chilly water... nothing better than a long hot shower! Go down with a 5 day debilitating migraine like I do... nothing better than a long hot shower!
Propane is a pain like you said a big hassle to get refills or other canisters in the various countries...virtually impossible... plus propane is relatively high maintenance, subject to checks by insurance companies and in some cases authorities and ferry companies.
Also propane can be dangerous. You don want to be in a gas explosion if you can help it... And obviously you helped yourself and left out the propane...good man !!!...
We could not agree more!
Dude. Thank you for this video. I've been trying to wrap my head around these concepts, and you spelled it out so well. Much appreciated!
Good video. Glad to see someone who is actually doing what I'm contemplating in the future.
I've looked at some decent quality companies which sell for more reasonable prices than
Wabasto and Eberspacher.
I've found a Chinese company which sells high end heaters both hydronic and air.
One company is VVKB. They have a dealer in the USA.
There is also a Russian company which sells both air and hydronic systems. They can be powered by diesel or gasoline.
The company has a distributor in the USA.
The name is Planar. They are also known as Autotherm.
The Russians know all about battling cold conditions. Their stuff is supposed to be as good as the German companies.
I've read that diesel units tend to clog with carbon when used at high altitude or on a continuous low setting.
It's said that kerosene works a lot better. Supposedly a mix of 80% kero and 20% diesel keeps the fuel pump from wearing out.
I've also read that #1 Stove Oil is basically kerosene.
Also Jet-A aircraft fuel is highly filtered kerosene. Smaller airports supposedly will sell to folks who don't have airplanes.
Both Stove Oil and Jet-A fuel sell for less than consumer grade kerosene.
#2 Home Heating oil is basically diesel which has been dyed for tax purposes. It costs less than diesel because the price does not include road tax.
I'm just reporting what I've read so far. Do your own follow up.
Good info... thanks for sharing!
legend.... another high grade is the Lavanar Pro range - with a high altitude option.
Can confirm on the Jet A - used to have Amish come in and buy barrels of the stuff for their lamps. We'd put a adapter on the end of the truck "duckbill" nozzles to fit the barrel openings and be limited to 7gpm which was a fraction of the wide-open flow rate. Was a pain but at smaller airports a customer is a customer. Supposedly it didn't smoke up their lamps like kerosene. Can also ask them if they have any sump fuel they are not using. Regulations require them to pull daily fuel samples and at the airport I worked at we had barrels of the stuff which was still fairly clean. We burned that stuff in the trucks and hangar heaters and still had more than we knew what to do with.
Those heaters were designed as an engine heater,,so u could hook up to your engine, then it keeps it warm as well,you then could add a small heater core with fan,,,we have them on our diesel trucks, with a timer ,,,,you could then tap off and run lines for in floor heating,,,great vid,,,and build,,
thanks for the tip... been looking at using the engine heat in some way! Cheers
@@SnowAndCurt yeah it works pretty good..we even went as far as installing relay to dash heater fan. to run the fan in cab...
Great work on putting these tech talks together!
Thanks Pierre! It’s something we wish we could have found when we were planning our build! Thanks for watching!
Hi Curt, thanks for your engineering experience with installation of the systems in your Van. One day I will build my own Van...one day :) So something pop up in my mind about your freezing problem under the Van. Most probably you did it or at least you have an idea, however 😊 one option is to wraps the pipes with electric wire heaters and control ON/OFF time. It is just idea...a lot more questions pop ups next, but i told you, I am giving just an idea 😊
Thanks so much for that tip! And thank you for tuning in to our channel!
Welcome to Utah. Much colder than usual this time of year.
Thank you, we are totally loving it! In the overnight is especially cold!
Love your channel man. keep 'em coming
Thanks a ton Robert! Thanks for tuning in!
Amazing setup!! Can't wait to see your next vedio. Hydronic system is also something that I am considering for my vanbuild. For my understanding, you are currently using a second coolent loop, separate from the engine coolant loop. Did you consider tapping those together like the hydronic system intended to do at the beginning. This can protect the engine during winter by pre heat the engine also warm up the room!
Yep... thought about it after the fact and wish we would have... still may do it if we find some down time! CHEERS!
Excellent video Amen.
Thanks
Nice video. My missus likes your floating cats tail. 👍
🐈🐈🐈☺️☺️☺️ thanks!!
appreciate the topic.. in reality the info in the video is extremely vague. could you do one that has some content/detail such as; cost, btu, brands, how set up etc... that would be terrific
You will find all that information at the vanbuidworkshop.com
Cheers 🍻
You are a certified beauty! Thanks for this! Sub’d
Glad you enjoyed the vid... Thank for the sub!
14:43 you mentioned linking to another brand of hydronic heater in the description, but it's missing? Could you let us know what it is, and what off-brand heater the professionals you talk to recommend? Thanks much Curt!
Thank you for the lesson.
You are welcome!
Snow & Curt You guys are amazing!
Hey Curt! Curious if you used an expansion tank for the coolant... If so, which one?
Hi Curt,
I've already told you but this van rocks ! Everything inside this build is inspiring...
I was just wondering if it would have been difficult / reliable / economic to add another heat exchanger in the loop and feed it with your engine coolant.
It just needs the pump runnig while you are driving... So as long as you drive, you heat your hydronic fluid and you could just park and shower without using the heater...
The main idea is not to waste the engine heat. Because you need to cool down the engine and heat your hydronic fluid, so maybe a simple heat transfer is an idea...
Am I wrong ? I can't figure out if it worth the extra piping or not...
Regards, Jacques-Olivier
Jacques, you are spot on. Two reasons I didn’t do that...1)I didn’t have the confidence I could do that myself, which leads into 2) I was concerned a failure in the added system could potentially lead to damage to my engine. I would say if there was no risk the way you described is the way to go. In fact, I may do a bit more research that modification as it would add to overall efficiency.
Conversely, with the systems tied together, the fluid could be switched to warm up the diesel motor...then possibly only one expansion tank would be needed. It would be imperative to be able to isolate the systems entirely in the event of a leak- easily done with quarter valves. Another consideration is filling the system so no air pockets remain. A vacuum coolant filler can be had for as little as $30. On the other hand, I think I could plan my showers (the only hot water I really need) around my engine run times which would simplify the system but still be the best way for a long shower time.
This is a great idea and it's what I'm thinking of for mine.
How long does the system take to warm up to a usable level? I'm trying to work out this vs a calorifier system.
When you route the glycol across the exhaust do you do anything to protect the hose from the heat? Is there a best spot for the crossing? Did you install a heat shield?
Thanks for the video. Love the tech talks.
Maybe this has been asked, I didn’t read all 190 comments and reply’s.
How do you regulate the hot water? Especially in your recirculating shower. If it recirculates wouldn’t it just get hotter and hotter the longer you use it and the more it goes through the heat exchanger?
Thanks in advance!
We put the shower handle on a little less than medium. It does start to warm up... But it doesn't get too hot for about 20 minutes... So the shower is perfect for a nice long shower.
You're a legend!
Curt will love this comment! ☺️ Thanks for watching the videos!
Curt, what heat exchanger model did you use? I can't find it on your site... with the squirrel cage blower? I want to find and buy some but can't locate them. Can you help?
Could you use the supply and return lines inside for underfloor heating?
Yes... you can!
pop aluminium plate over them to spread the heated area
Which model of espar did you use? Link is dead
hey there, been looking for a video on how you weather proofed
the under of your van, did you all do one?
If I just do a regular shower (non-circulating), do you think I will be getting continuous hot water?
Yes, but you will not have unlimited water unless you are hooked up to a water source at an RV park type place. If you are getting water from your van water tank, you will have hot water, but you will not be able to take a long shower.
Thanks for the video! Are there any advantages or disadvantages with tying the engine cooling system into the hydronic heating system?
hydronic guy here - engine coolant (ethylene glycol) is poison. Systems using heat exchangers to heat our domesic water should always use food safe glycol (propylene) in case of failures poison glycol mix with our domestic water.
Got a used hydronic espar.can I just use it to hat the air in the van?
Yes I have a heater video
Very cool! Which pump do you use for the coolant circulation?
Great job on the vid!
- Brian + Erin
Amazing, as with most technologies you have used in your build. But did you explore radiant heated floors within the same system? It basically replaces the air heating component.
We did... opted not to go with it, but we do like the idea!
Hi Kurt
I was curious if you installed 2 water heater since you wanted to keep you recirc system separate?
Nope... One hot water heater for both systems.
The heat exchangers are great technology but what I would like to know is after you switch off the heater, can you still get some hot water from the sink or shower and if so: how much please??
I opted (btw) for a salvaged indirectly heated boiler from a central heating boiler which stores 10 L of coolant and has a copper coil inside which I plumbed via a thermostatic mixer valve into the hot water line of the kitchen sink (my shower is as yet a bucket, a cup and a tarp in the bushes (yeah I like - not really - to rough it sometimes)
We can get hot water in the sink for maybe 5-ish minutes after the heater is turned off... warm water for maybe 10.
Can we get the Link to the other brand of hydronic Heater please.
Hi Curt. Great videos, so thanks a bunch! Happy 2021!
One question - how do you moderate the temperature of the water coming out the shower? I guess you don't use a thermostatic mixer valve because I don't see a separate cold supply... Or do you control the temperature to which the Hydronic heats the water in the loop? Or do you just take what comes out, assuming it never gets too hot because of heat losses in the whole system?
Thanks in advance for your advice. Top channel. Yours combined with Greg Virgoe's gets me everything I need so far (at least in the planning stage!)
We use a mixer valve... Enough heat is lost in the system that it never gets too hot. But, there will be times that all of your water is warm for a bit!
If a guy wanted a setup like yours & wanted a heated floor & wanted to tie the system into the engine, such a setup would take 4 heat exchangers?
I think would do it with 3. If I did it all over, I would do as you describe.
What controller are you using for your Espar? When you install the radiator for heating the interior of the van will you trigger this off of the timer function only or have you figured out a way to control the on/off function of the espar with a wall mounted thermostat?
👆 what he said!
Hi Curt, I am always up with a long, hot shower so I am doing research into a recirculating shower system with hydronic heating. This is definitely one of the best videos on youtube regarding this topic, thank you sir! Just a few questions regarding this, since the Espar heater is just 5kw, is it enough to instantly heat up the water and keep it warm as you go (maybe a bit colder at the beginning but once the recirculating tank has filled with water it gets warmer?) Do you have any idea of the flow rate of your shower? Does the water get colder when you have a very long shower, to the point where it's too cold to shower with? Keep up the good work, greetings from England.
Turn the heater on about two minutes before getting in the shower... water is warm within 30 seconds of turning on water after that. The water is easy to maintain the proper temp. Never gets too hot due to a bit of temp loss as the water circulates thru the system... never gets too cold either.
Do you have any video on a wiring session for the water heater?
Nope... we did not video that, sorry!
Where did you get the fittings to connect the piping to the heat exchangers? I do not see anything listed on Amazon
Thanks
We prob picked them up at home depot.
Maybe this is not the case in the US, but in Canada Sprinters come with a Webasto Parking heater, why not just implement this with the Vehicles pre existing coolant loop and have the benefit of also keeping the engine warm, or use the engine itself (while driving) to heat the coolant?
Yep.... USA vans don't have that awesome feature! Curt's looked at this a bit and in hindsight would've maybe liked to add this in... But, no going back now! Thanks for the question... It's a good one!
Can you do a video specifically on your control system? Or at least describe it here? Or is your system right now just set up on a timer? If so, when does it turn on, when does it shut off? The mechanicals and plumbing seem pretty straight forward, but the controller is the thing I feel like I know least about. Someone suggested Inkbird or Pi or Arduino, but this is only half of it, where and how do you mount thermocouples, etc, some in water, some in the air, etc. Lots of questions about the control systems. Anything you can share? Thank you!
We have not done anything special there or made a video on it. Everything is handled with a wall unit and is not triggered by temps. We made add stuff later, but for now we manually flip things on. If you figure something cool out, be sure to keep us posted! Sorry we were not m ore help.
@@SnowAndCurt Thanks for the reply!
@@SnowAndCurt One more question! If you turn on the the coolant pump does it heat all your heat exchangers (so, for example, if you're running hot water for your sink, is the shower heat exchanger, or the air heat exchange, hot even if you don't have your shower turned on or are not running your air heater?)
yay
😊
Amazing setup once again!
How low of an outside temp could you live at with this setup without things freezing up under the van?
If you watch one of our recent Q&A vids.... You will see Curt talk about how we winterized the pipes by circulating water during freezing temps. We don't want to test anything extreme, but we could handle 10-20 degree farenheight... we would need it to warm up a little during the day!
Hi Snow & Curt, great channel, enjoy your build and tech talks. Do you have any issue when your showering with the heat exchanger on the fresh water overheating, could there be a solenoid to bypass one or other heat exchanger.
We have not had the problem, but we never turn it all the way up... You just need a little hot water trickling in! But, there is surely a way to maybe pop a thermostat on there with a valve it something.... Let us know what you figure out!
So did you add a 2nd expansion tank under the hood? Or did you connect to the Factory one?
yes, we added a second tank
@@SnowAndCurt What size is that I'm designing a hydronic system but stuck on how big of a reservoir to install
Looking to use this system one day for our own van build. I am wondering how you use the hot water in summer without also heating the air inside the van? Do you have zone valves on the pipework to stop glycol reaching the heaters inside?
yes... we can heat water without heating the van
@@SnowAndCurt how are you stopping the glycol circulating through the heaters/interior pipework when heating the water? Separate circuits? Or valves
Thank you for this amazing video! Your series are extremely educational. :)
12:00 - I've always wondered... but then what if you need hot water in the summer? What do you do then?
Do you feel if I get a simple LPG gas-boiler, that it would be enough to heat a well-insulated sprinter van?
Our hot water heat system can be used without hearing the air in the van! Tons of folks use propane to heat their vans... We stayed away from propane only because we are doing extensive international travel.... And the different fittings in different countries can make it difficult to fill your tanks!
Hi Snow & Curt. Loving your videos, thanks especially for the Hydronic hot water system videos, they are a huge help to me!! Your van is fantastic, well done!! I have a question for you about the electrical power consumption of the hydronic water system, can you give me an idea of the Amps it draws when heating up from cold please? How long does it take to heat the coolant, (I think I remember you stating it takes 5mins but not sure I have that right)? Does the Amperage draw lessen after the initial heat up please & if so, what is the amperage draw then? I'd appreciate any help you can give me. Looking forward to your upcoming videos! Stay safe both of you. Tracey (in the UK).
Yes... 3 to 5 minutes depending on outside temp! The heater is diesel operated, so the only power draw is the pumps... which is only when the water is running and is minimal! We do not know the exact amps. But, it is SMALL! Hope this helps!
Hi great program do you have a build series for the van conversion thanks Gary
Unfortunately, we didn’t video the build. We only learned about videoing and editing once we moved into the van... it’s something we regret! Thanks for tuning in Gary!
What is the long tube type heat exchanger used for?
The long tube is a UV light.... To help with sterilizing the water!
Are the heat exchanger plates effected by altitude?
No they are not. Great question! Our air heater is, we have the altitude kit on it, but no effect on heat exchangers.
Well done! 👌
How long does it take to heat the water? I suppose the glycol needs about 10 minutes to heat up..
But as the shower water is at van temperature it will need à couple of minutes to be on the right temp.. But once hot, you can't go down with the temperature, right ?
Do you have problems with too hot?
Thank you
It takes about 5 minutes for the heat exchanger to heat up, after that we can control the temperature perfectly for an least an hour and probably a lot more we just have tested it for more. If the water is too hot we just turn it down a bit...Easy peasy!
like the barn swallows in the back ground, they travel 3-4000 miles every spring from south America to as far as southern Canada every year and back, they come back to the same barn every year.. watched your video for the Hydronic aspect.. University Of Colorado does studies on our barn swallows every year at our farm in Hygiene Co... Just saying! nice video on hydronics...seems like theirs some up fitters charging some astronomical amounts for what you have done..
That's pretty cool!! All animals are fascinating to us!
Hi very interesting
Is the heater you’re talking about the aux heater under the chassis/driver seat which heat the engine in cold climates
If so how did you re wire it
Cheers John from Newzealand
No, our van didn't come with the six heater... So we installed from scratch.
Do you think it’s the same as the aux one I have on my van ,mine is piped up to the engine as a pre heater on cold days,sounds like a jet engine when we run it.great interesting utube video keep it up and stay safe and keep traveling
@@johndyer9431 Yes, the aux heater in your van is the same, should be a D5. If anyone else is reading this, I have a 2005 sprinter with the D5WZ Eberspacher and it is located behind and below the right hand headlight as you look under the bonnet, or hood if you are in USA/Canada. I only mention this as a lot of Sprinter owners don't even know they have an Eberspacher fitted or what it does.
I have the same system in my van and have it all operational except the Kalori fan. I can't figure out for the life of my how to wire it. Do you have any pictures or videos of the wiring? It looks like it should be super simple but I can't figure it out. The one wiring harness is pretty straight forward but the second harness I can't figure out. It has a relay in the middle of on one side a single red/white wire with a clip that looks like it should plug into the back of a plastic connector. The other end has a solid black wire and a black wire with a violet stripe. I plan on only using the max speed of the fan so dont need to wire for the the other lower speeds. Any help or pictures would be greatly appreciated.
Unfortunately, we were not videoing during most of the build. There's oy a few pictures, but none during this phase!
Curt is pretty busy right now on another project, when he gets freed up, I'll see if he has any input for you!
How long did the heating system take to install roughly, also, when you say the water to wash with circulates, is that old water your reusing?
We built our van on weekends over a span of 8 months, honestly... I cannot remember how long we spent on the heater. Yes, the water we reuse can be circulated thru the system without coming out of the shower... so that we can run it thru the filtration system a bit more if we feel like we need to.
@@SnowAndCurt thanks 🙏
Would such a heating system be able to run an in floor radiant heating system?
Yes! We know that it can, but we didn’t research all of the details for this option.... it would add a lil to the floor thickness... and curt has no room to spare - he’s 6’2”
You would need a small buffer tank to keep the efficiencyof the system, but yes! Def would.
Sorry to bother. Waiting for my van I try to purchase the needed stuff. I did buy through your website the telescopic leader and it seems a little bit to small for the van. What hight is yours?? I still can return it if it's not the right one. Thanks
Ours is 12.5 feet when fully extended. Hope that helps! How long until your van comes in?? 🚐☺️
@@SnowAndCurt Snow, thank you for your fast reply. Few more months. Is to late to order the 2020 one. I'll order as soon as the 2021 is coming.
Great video, thanks for doing these. Do you just close the loop to the floor during summer so you can still have hot water otherwise? Can you also use the hydronics for cooling floor/air too and thus do away with AC (maybe trade it for a dehumidifier)?
We actually do not have the heated flooring system... we thought about it, but opted out because we needed every inch we could of space so Curt would be able to stand up in the van. But, we would have for sure made a way to close off the floor loop if we would have. And... your cooling idea is interesting... if you research it more and decide to go for it, be sure to let us know!
daemorhedron :: Closing that heater loop is optimal in warm weather, especially if it can be repurposed, directed thru a dual-core heat exchanger near an *evaporator tube. My ambulance has (an excess heat production in a 42kBTU Espar M12 from a bus and) such an exchanger, so I’ll be routing hosing for a COOLING WALL (not floor b/c, well, heat rises) as recently demonstrated by a Princeton study (a cooling wall pulls heat from occupants and objects without byproduct condensation). Definitely post your process- and I’ll return the favor.
@@cluek9780 Great reply. Right now all I am doing is theorycrafting my own build. Very new to hydronics, hvac, heated floors, etc and tbh not particularly smart so will be a while before I produce anything but happy to share when I do. Would love to see what you've come up with though!
Another great video Curt. Which coolant pump did you go with?
Thanks Mike... It's an espar.
@@SnowAndCurt Do I understand correctly that you did not tie into the Sprinter engine coolant system ?
We did not.... Although Curt is considering adding that. But, for now, most big projects are on hold while he relaxes a bit!
@@SnowAndCurt What is the capacity of the coolant expansion tank? Your parts link indicates it's a plastic tank designed for a Ford. How difficult was it to fit in the engine area of your Sprinter?
Hi again Curt and Snow. Another quick question about your coolant loop and reservoir: Do you operate the reservoir vented or closed? I don't see a coolant return to the reservoir on you diagram. Does it loop back to the reservoir?
Do you anticipate problems getting diesel in south america?
There’s some areas we may have to carry a couple extra cans with us, but we don’t anticipate anything horrible!
@@SnowAndCurt I pray everything works out. I keep following you around th world.
I have been doing a ton of research for my upcoming build and came across your channel. Great stuff, I really appreciate you sharing your experience with all of the people out here.
The question is, how do you regulate the temperature in the radiant system (coolant)? Is there a separate thermostat in the flooring that keeps the temperature of the coolant loop at below 85 degrees F? Most flooring cannot handle radiant systems above 85 degrees and it can harm most wood/laminate flooring if the system runs hooter. How do you keep the PEX and the floor from being like 190 degrees?
Having lived in Korea for years, I love floor heat and even sleep on a dol bed (stone bed) with radiant heat. [Google: Korean style dol bed]. I really want to put this system in my build, but do not want to ruin my flooring on top of it.
OUr heating system is not in the floor... it is under our van... so, we do not heat our floors. I can see how the diagram would make you lean that way though. Hope some of our stuff ends up helping you! Stay in touch and good luck with your build!
Did you put your van up on lift (like what they do oil changes on) in order to build out your below chassis pipes, tanks, accessories? Just wondering how you literally physically did all that. Thank you!!
We did not put it up on a lift... But, man, that would've been nice!! There were a lot of busted knuckles... Tweaked backs... And sore shoulders over the eight months of building our van! I guess the excitement of finishing each step along the way... And knowing that when the van was finished he could retire.... That drove Curt to do things that seem a bit crazy now!
@@SnowAndCurt I can only imagine! So much hard work went into your van :)
This was very helpful! Now I understand the second heat exchanger.
How long did your entire build take? You have one of the best builds, so I am curious what it will take to get similar results. Any chance you can provide a complete undercarriage plan /layout? Knowing what is in each available space of the undercarriage would be a big help.
Thank you!
Jeff... if we would’ve started with a plan for the undercarriage from the beginning, we could easily share! But since we had to create a lot of the components from trial and error until we got it right, it would be super hard for us to draw up a plan. Lots of folks ask... and we wish we had one, but we do t! Sorry!
Thanks for watching!!
The build took eight months on weekends mostly... with a few full work weeks when curt took vacation from his job! They were long tiring weekends! But, it’s all worth it now!
Great system but you can still make it more efficient though.
Absolutely
How? Any tips would be really welcome
I feel like such a boomer when people say link in the description, i don't know where that is! Lol Can someone please post the link
thank you for the info.
do you have any videos of your system running? I am curious as to how it sounds, from inside the van and outside the van when running at full speed. I have heard these hydronic heaters can be very loud, so i'm wondering if the volume would keep me awake at night, or disturb nearby campers.
any info would be appreciated.
thanks!
We will try to do a sound text and get it in the next video for you guys! That's a great question. In the meantime, it's not too loud... Kind of a constant hum... No where near as loud as a generator. Stay tuned!
Did you consider radiant floor heat?
I considered it for sure! I was crunched for time but if I had to do it again I would definitely do the radiant floor!
We are in the process of reworking our Class C, and, have been Seriously thinking about the radiant heat in the flooring.
That is all it would be for. The original setup works fine, just wanting to give it a bit of 'Help' .
👍😎👍
Does this only work with diesel fueled vans? Or is it possible to do the same with a gas powered van?
They have a gas version, as well.
What about propane?
how often do you have to refill your hydronic fluid?
We have not had to yet... Been about a year
30 minute shower holy shit, that's a lot of water waste pre van life
Yes... Agree 100%... Part of our van Life plan was to be more environmentally concious. I can't say we were always as good as we should have been. But, we have drastically reduced our footprint!
Put a bird on it
-
I believe that you have made an error in judgment by not including propane as a resource. It is safe and practical. It is easy to manage and effective
Thanks for the comment...time will tell, as it usually does.🍻
One thing I cannot figure out... I can wash my entire car in 5 minutes... how big are these people's bodies that they need a 30 minute shower?
After a long day on the slopes... nothing is better than a long hot shower!
After hiking a dusty canyon... nothing better that a long hot shower!
After swimming with whale sharks in the chilly water... nothing better than a long hot shower!
Go down with a 5 day debilitating migraine like I do... nothing better than a long hot shower!
@@SnowAndCurt Plenty of things are better than a long hot shower. This is obvious