It's great to see more humans jumping onto the new extruder. I'll answer a few of the concerns and misconceptions provided in the comments. 1. Far more has been done than just adding 3:1 to the bondtech. -all new cooling for the heatbreak which lowers internal temp for better retractions and far better low layer height printing. -100% aligned filament path which none of the stock prusa extruders have. -cooler motor operation and no residule heat to the gears. This is an issue with direct 1:1 extruders where motor heat is transfered to the gears. -best retractions available. Most users can use less retraction which improves print quality and releives pressure in the hotend. 2. It's completely open source. Just like your prusa all files are available to print or modify. Yes. You can just make this on your own. There is already a user who converted the files to be fdm printer friendly. 3. Higher heat resistance than stock. Better than ABS thermal properties so less chance of melting it. 4. Better layer performance. Compared to stock the majority of users see print quality improvements. Some more drastic than others because the rest of the printers assembly matters but if you've done the rest correct your prints will be better nice posted numerous prints that are just stellar using this mod. I think too many viewers took this as a full scientific test. I can that reusing the same settings is actual bad in this instance. This is an entirely different extruder and optimal printing settings vary greatly from stock. I've built profiles for this extruder to help users get started right away instead of using bad settings.
I didn't see this as a scientific test either. There are alot of people not optimizing their print settings for each filament either. That benchy looked bad and my Mk3 didn't print that bad with stock profiles in PLA or PETG.
More constant extrusion is exactly the the point. Some (not all) users of the mk3 had problems with inconsitant extrusion (issue #602). And while the exact reason for that issue is not known, the community found ou it can be solved using a bondtech bmg. First with modified prusa-printhead to insert a normal bondtech bmg, than with a merged version. But you do not need a pencake stepper to archive this effect; I use the normal one and it has very constant extrusion. If you print the housing of this upgrade (www.thingiverse.com/thing:3347150) and modify the fanduct not to interfere with the normal stepper motor, you only need some parts you can get from aliexpress (about 15€) to get the same improvement. I actualy use the version with seperate Bondtech BMG (www.thingiverse.com/thing:3206085), it works very well. Only somtimes inserting filament needs a second try, as between filament sensor and BMG is a little gap briged by an ptfe tube. No problem at all in normal use, but a problem using mmu2. As this upgrade is reported a working well with mmu2, I will give it a try. I allready printed the housing with PET-G/Carbon, so next weekend I will try it.
I still can’t get over being able to run that nice @ 100mms even stock! I swear I’ll own a prusa one day and stop drooling on my key board every time I hear his name!
It amused me to hear how much you and I think alike about our 3D printers. I have my Prusa Mk3 which I resist the temptation to modify beyond very small things (build plates, mostly) because it's my go-to workhorse for when I need to get something printed. And I have my Anycubic and Creality printers where... I've lost track at this point how much time I've spent tuning and tweaking and upgrading them, because I enjoy that about as much as I do actually making things. Anyway... loving the content... keep the upgrade/tweaking/tuning videos coming!
Just know that when the hot end screws up, which it will, Prusa will NOT stand band their “warranty”. The experience has been similar to used car dealer vehicle warranty.
Excellent review of the installation and testing of the Bondtech extruder upgrade. I have Bondtech BMG extruders on my other printers, and am pleased with them. I haven’t upgraded my MK3 yet, but it is good to know the option is out there if I feed the need.
It is clear in the instructions that there is still a bolt to retain the filament sensor, just to the right of the idler door. I have 2 of them, and both are screwed down.
Great video. I've been looking at the Bondtech upgrade, especially since they just did a new refresh of the design for the MK3s and that the Mosquito extruder is available. While the Mosquito won't by itself improve performance the cold nozzle changes and potential for much faster print speeds jives with the geared Bondtech quite well.
Fantastic walk-through Michael. I'm the same as you regarding upgrades to printers, I too find it more satisfying that the actual printing. My MK2 is my daily driver, although I do have smoother rods and Drylin bearings to replace. The other printers are my 'tinker' machines, especially the Borg. Huge thanks to the others in the community that helped with this.
As someone who got a dual drive extruder I can safely say **that they really do let you crank the speed up...*** Just be aware that you shouldn't go too quick unless your hotend can handle it because the extruder itself can crank out so much pressure it can rip the bowden tube out of the clamp on a bowden system.
I would advise you to carefully remove the rust from the bondtech gears and a dap of grease on the gears and on the needle bearings in the idler gear like bondtech advises! Prusa also does that since a few months
With two gears after one another ( necessary for the direction whereas only one wont work) in a triangle setup for the additional gear, the contra wheel could be adjustable. Put the contra wheel with a spring tensioner and a screw in a slide and voila it could work for both 1,75 &3
Great video Mike. I was really excited that it might reduce the time it takes to unjam my Prusa when it acts up but looks like it will be still a real job to do. I might have to work on an upgraded version of for this machine now that the Ender 3 Direct Drive has been such a good success.
Good effort and very well presented. I don't get why the Mk3 has this ringing issue :-( I never noticed it on my Mk2s. You'd think that the Mk3 frame should be more rigid and the smooth trinamic drivers would create less vibration. So what's the deal? why has no one cured this yet?
You are not encountering ringing because you probably use default perimeters print speed profiles, which are much slower then 200mm/s presented in video. You can avoid ringing on rectangular object when printing in high speed by decreasing jerk rate and still have high overall speed. I am using 170mm/s for big inner perimeters, 130mm/s for big outer perimeters and Maximum jerk X and Y decreased to 2 mm/s with good results.
I couldn't help but notice the large, blue 3D printed whatchamacallit behind you, to your right. What is it called? Is it specific to one of your vids? Are the STL files available to work with? At some point I will watch all/most of your vids, but wanted to save some time with this one. Great channel, btw! Keep the excellent content coming.
Printing at 100 mm/s seems a bit problematic, even if it could do it after that upgrade. That's quite the upgrade and you detailed it very nicely! (I'll continue to print slower and not have to re-do my print jobs!)
Glowey Bacon off course you can... at least teorically goes to 120mm/s... but quality will be low or lower then in a 60mm/s. And most of the time your slicer speed is not the final result, to know your real speed you should consider accel and jerk in your firmware. Insert your printer data and know exactly how is your speed in: gcodeanalyser
in your firmware and even in your slicer... there are a lot of speed limitations to considerer. One thing is fact... if you go slower you’ve got better quality prints considering your structure is enought rigid and well posicioned
For people with a stock mk3, prusa released a new extruder last summer, which also tilts the part cooling fan like this upgrade does. See shop.prusa3d.com/forum/general-discussion-announcements-and-releases-f61/new-printed-parts-b7-r3-and-other-improvements-for-t25616.html
Stephen Boyd that's because no tweaking of settings were done to harness what the extruder can do. Using good settings for one extruder you've spent time tuning and throwing it on another isn't scientific. It in fact isn't how you should test things. You need a properly tuned profile for each setup to see which prints better overall.
jimmer clones are trash and hurt the originators. Buying a clone is the same and saying screw you for making this awesome product and stealing is fine. Bondtech does own copyright to the BMG.
I think the big pro of this is the massive Tork you get. I have Issues with 0.25mm Nozzels because of jamming. With that Tork Upgrade it should be easy to print with. Would be nice to see another Video About it.
I know this is old, but I feel the added heat resistance of the sintered parts is being overlooked. I warped the factory provided extruder body (specifically, the PINDA mount) printing in polycarbonate. The SLS parts will weather those temps far better. I find overall performance printing PC far better with this extruder, the additional torque making it much easier to extrude at higher pressures that really help with PC layer adhesion.
@@TeachingTech the day you had the 1st video of mks Gen L, I ordered combo of tft28, 2208 and Gen L from aliexpress ;) all reached in 15 days.. Now wating :)
I have the cr10s and constantly print at 100mm/s since I'm impatient. Seems to work alright except for some minor ringing on very small parts and often when doing letters with a negative profile Cura seems to change the printers direction and the corners become uneven. It might be the SD card though.
I did this upgrade but after i got some small isue with bad first layer getting gaps between the lines ,did a check extrution and it extruded 100mm when i asked it to . So alitle at loss what do do
Ive got the MK3S, ive ordered my MK3S Bondtech upgrade and just wondering can I just use the gcode shown in the video or should I upload the firmware from the bondtech website?
I was waiting for someone to review this, so thank you. Too bad this upgrade doesn't have a great difference for 1/7 of my printers price. You would probably expect more
Question... Is the printer the problem at 100mm/s... Or the extruder. To say the extruder made no difference is problematic... Because there is no testing to show that that the extruder made no difference. Mostly the test showed that the lower stepper weight at 100mm/s did not improve surface finish. More AB testing is required... In my humble opinion, but thats just my research background kicking in. Anyway, my best performance improvements with Bondtech on my printers has been with improved melt rate. Faster printing via deposition rate... Not tool head speed. But great tutorial as usual. Keep making great videos. I'll keep watching them.
Eric Lien Good point! More tests are needed. This kind of upgrade for me doesn’t point to a speed increasing but volume of extrusion. I wanna see tests with wider nozzles and more mm^3/s (speed x nozzle diameter x layer high). And also flexible materials tests to check retraction improvements and precision.
the real question is, does it solve issue 602? also seems like just going back to the original mk2s extruder would be a step ahead... i mean ditch the bondetch gears and just go back to the single gear... less or no 602, it worked fine since it's not geared so it skips before it even grinds filament.... plus it's free.... why are we spending more money on something they should be fixing for free? if you want to pump out plastic faster with a larger nozzle then use this.
Great video. If I was going to use a pancake stepper motor on my direct drive Ender 3, would the pancake stepper motor have any print quality decreases?
A pencake stepper has less torque (about a third). You may reduce the current of the stepper. If your Ender 3 uses an geared extruder like Titan or Bondtech BMG (or cloned: Dual Drive BGM on Aliexpress), the gear ratio is 3:1. So the force the filament is pushed through the hotend is the same as the normal stepper with an ungeared extruder. This is one (of two) reasons for using geared extruders: 1. You get more tourqe with the same stepper (mostly needed on 2.85mm Filament) or the same torque with a smaller stepper (less weight of moving mass; less ringing on x-axis) 2. As microsteps mostly make movements smart, but do not have much torqe, 3:1 means also three times of full-step (high torque) resolution in extrusion of filament. Using a 0.9° Pencake stepper, you have even 6 times the full force resolution. Meaning: reducing any moiree or salmon-skin effects. And of course more precise extrusion if you use a small nozzle like 0.2mm.
I am not using using a geared extruder, so can I use the pancake stepper, or do I have to make a geared 3:1 setup to get normal torque with it? Or could I just set the flow (extrusion multiplier) to 300% in Cura.
@@jamescerven4400 Sorry but I hope you understand a little joke: If you have a bound door and and a smal boy do not have the force to open it, multiple trys dont help. He needs someone bigger with more force - or a lever. An extrusion multiplier only make more tries. If the force is not enough, any try fails, no extrusion. If the force is enough, all trys work - and you put to many filament out. So only use a pencake with an geared extruder like titan or bondtech bmg (the clones bondtech bmg are called "Dual Drive BMG" on Aliexpress. The cloned Titan are called Titan...). For good printing quality you need a mostly constant flowrate. So max accereration and max speed should be the same in x and y direction. Ringing depends on accelleration, speed and mass (mostly). So on the ender 3 it depends on the weight of the printbed. A normal direct extruder weights less. So no need to reduce weigth with a pencake stepper. Only reasons in case of an Ender3: V-Slot wheels live longer (but cheap to change or replace by better ones) Of course the construction of the Ender 3 with only one z-leadscrew can make problems with heavy weights. But I think a normal direct extruder would be O.K. Else adding a second leadscrew for z would be the better solution instead spending to much money on an geared extruder with pencake...
I recently install a Bondtech extruder with capricorn tube (both originals). I also have an e3d V6 hotend for a while and I´ve replaced the nozzle two weeks ago, BUT my printer keeps underextruding. I´m printing PETG at 55-65 mm at 245 degrees and it works very well for an hour or so, until it starts to underextrude plastic and ruins every single print I try. I´m pretty frustrated right now, ´cause I´ve try every trick in the book... BTW, both benchys and XYZ calibration cubes are printing without any problems righ out the SD card, so the underextrusion only appears when I print for longer times. ANY idea will be accepted.
do the Triangle labs BMG clone on the Ender 3. I have 2 of them and love them. one in Bowden, one with petsfang big direct drive. waiting for a pancake motor tho to lighten up the the direct drive, but its printing great. prob going to convert the Bowden over to the petsfang soon just so all my printers are the same.
Owing to the fact that this should never slip on the filament, and knowing the diameter of the extruder wheels and the feed rate and the controller knowing when it is feeding and retracting etc, how hard would it be to estimate the length of filament used on each print? Just curious. Could an 8 bit controller do this?
Slic3r tell you lenght, weight and (if you gave the price/kg in filament settings) the price after generating the g-code. Why should the printer controller calculate it?
I looked into SLS printing this online and its about the same as it would be buying it and you wouldn't get all the metal bits. What temps can this handle without melting?
I have both, and it would be better to go for the MK3S upgrade. The completely new filament sensor works a lot better, and there's no difference in print quality that I can discern.
I own a Cocoon Create..... which is a clone of the wanaho i3 v2..... which is a clone of a Prusa i3, point is my AUD $350 printer does a great job with a few mods. I really want a CR10s Pro that printer looks amazing.
Yes. But not with MMU2s and mk3s, the free update all mmu2 users will get. The new filament sensor will not fit. Of course the community will react soon with a modified design. But I do not think Bondtech will send new sls printed parts to all Bondtech mk3 upgrade buyers for free. So print the upgrade yourself (I used pet-g cf 20; works fine), only buy the mechanical parts needed if you go to mk3s the next months anyway.
A good upgrade is to remove the direct drive extruder to a bowden, it is much easier to load, had much less inertia on the x axis and you get much less issues from belt slack etc. You remove almost half a kilo if it had a normal motor and gears., wich you can convert into faster printspeed by having a much lighter x axis.
Also, combined with an ezr struder, a bowden setup prints flexibles (yes even ninjaflex) with ease and at speeds comparable to direct drive setups. Too many people think direct drive is an upgrade when from everything I've seen, the opposite is true. The only real advantage I can see with direct drive is less retraction and therefore shorter print times (sometimes it's substantial time saved) but IMO that's not enough reason to choose it over a good bowden setup with a nice extruder like the ezr.
You can get the STL for a bondtech bmg housing as thing:3182969 and an modified mk3-head as thing:3165551. So you only need to buy the reduction gears and some parts for less than 15$ by Aliexpress to get nearly the same result. As you mostly print same speed/acceleration in x and y anyway, there is no need to reduce weight of the stepper. You can the original one, as lower weight on x will only reduce ringing in x direction a little, but do nothing for y. Its an good solution if you have the inconsistent extrusion problem (issue 602) or if you use low diameter nozzle like 0.2mm (as you get more full-step resolution). You may even use a 0.9° stepper to get 6 times the resolution of the normal mk3. If you have not the 602 issue (yet) you do not need the update (yet). Have you tested the filament sensor? In original mk3 it is mostly useless, as it triggers often false. The reason: Prusa develepoed the head with ABS, but produces it in PET-G. PET-G is a much more refelctive material, so using black PET-G does not help to get the sensor reliable. I used black non-reflective paint inside the chamber of the sensor - no false alarms anymore. Perfectly reliable. The material of the Bondtech mk3 update seem much less reflective as PET-G. Have you checked if it improves the sensors usefullness? Maybe you should print the sensor cover in othe, none reflective material (or paint it on its underside)
@@cybrsage As I said, the pencake stepper is not needed. The printbed is the heavy moving part, to avoid ringing in y-axis you reduce speed/acell anyway. As you always use same x/y speed/acell, you gain no advantage of a new motor. You may buy one on aliexpress for another 10-15$, but you do not need to. If you do, you may use a 0.9° Stepper for even higher resolution of full steps. PET-G works well. Bondtechs material looks and feel nicer and is stronger - but that does not effect the print quality. Of course a self printed PET-housing may need some postprocessing (using fille or drill). You do not even need high-quality high-constant with PET-G (like prusament). The printing head have to work, not to be a beauty queen. You can buy all the parts like reduction gear etc. seperatly on Aliexpress for about 13$. But you can simply get a Bondtech BMG Clone for 17 $US including shipping: de.aliexpress.com/item/3D-Printer-Parts-BMG-Extruder-Cloned-Btech-Dual-Drive-Extruder-Bowden-Extruder-Filament-Dual-Gear-For/32969060157.html The 4$ extra spares waiting for many different parcels arriving. The quality is good - exept for the filament gears. But you have allready the originals from bondtech in your mk3, so you do not need the cheap cloned ones. So the simple solution: Buy the "Dual Drive BMG" from Aliexpress, print www.thingiverse.com/thing:3165551 in PET-G. So for 17 USD + some filament + some ptfe tube you get functional the same as for 100 USD at Bondtech. Extruder modifications a constantly improved by users. The Bondtech mk3 upgrade is high quality. But what happens, if somone optimice ventilation even more? So the thingiverse solution (using a bondtech BMG inserted to a modified head) seems more flexible. I am very happy with it. Only thing to test: How well it works with MMU2?
Filament sensor works for me, I only have issues when I use translucent materials. What does that have to do with the upgrade that you are not matching like? It appears tou just want to complain. If that is your goal, just say so and we will just ignore you.
@@cybrsage I do not understand your comment. You already ignore me. I wrote "As you mostly print same speed/acceleration in x and y anyway, there is no need to reduce weight of the stepper. " Your comment: "You can get that motor and all the other parts...". Before you comment a post, you should read it and try to understand it. Ore become member of Trumps goverment, you will fit in perfectly. I complained nothing about the upgrade. I simply replied to all the comments complaining about the high price for only slight improvement. And reported, that you can get the same slight improvements for much less money, if you use the Thingiverse solution with a Bondtech BMG and modified printhead for much less money. It can use either the original stepper or a pencake. Of course I like the bondtech product. But it is a very high price if you can get reduction gear etc. directly from Bondtech for about 35$ (+Vat+shipping), so you pay 70$ for SLS-printed parts and pencake stepper. If you use your mk3 for business - O.K. But as a hobby you may look for cheaper solution. Most people would need the upgrade to solve the inconstent extrusion issue - wich is caused mostly by microsteps having much less torque than full steps. Using a geared extruder on the mk3 is NOT about using a stepper motor with less weight to reduce ringing. No sense to reduce weight of printhead, if you move a heavy bed anyway. Reducing weight of a printhead is goal for using direct-extruder on printers like ultimaker. So the expensive pencake stepper is nice, but not needed. If you do not have the inconsitent extrusion issue, you do not need an upgrade anyway. Like the video shows - not much improvements. The improvements shown you also get with the thingiverse-solution. So if your mk3 is used in business and you have problems - and time is money - buy the Bondtech mk3 upgrade. But if you are a private user and only solve inconsistent extrusion issue more than 100$ is a high prise. So think about the much cheaper solution.
You do not understand that the sensor has nothing to do with this upgrade? I cannot help you with that, other than to say the sensor is not part of the upgrade. Mine just works, cannot help you if yours does not.
The Bondtech mk3 upgrade already got outdated. Prusa changed their filament sensor and made the mk3s. The upgrade is mandatory if you use mmu2, as the upgrade to mmu2s with mk3s upgrade is free for every mmu2 user. The new sensor is needed, because on normal mmu2 prusa did not use the old filament sensor due to reliability problems. The new sensor is "opto mechanical". Using the upgrade to mmu2s and mk3s will result in higher reliability on multimaterial. So anyone with mmu who got the Bondtech mk3 upgrade might throw the nice sls printed part away as the new filament sensor will not fit there. Hopefully the community will change the design, so you could keep the other parts. But the housing is about a quarter to a third of the price the upgrade cost. As a new stepper motor is not needed anyway the only parts usefull in long term are the reduction gears, ballbearing and the lever-screw. You can get them much more cheap, even from Bondtech... Definitly as nice as sls prints are - on a printer constantly improved by manufacturer its not a good idea to invest the money. www.prusaprinters.org/original-prusa-i3-mk3s-and-mmu2s-release-sl1-and-powder-coated-sheets-update/
@@TeachingTech In your case the decission is simple. Use the Bondtech mk3 upgrade as you already have it and the mk3s is mandatory only if you use an mmu2. Filament sensor is the only change that matters on mk3s, as improving cooling is done by the Bondtech mk3 upgrade also. As soon as the community updates the design of the Bondtech mk3 upgrade to work with new filament sensor print it with pet-g (maybe with carbon fibers, looks and feels nearly as good as the pa12cf Bondtech uses), buy the mk3s upgrade and use booth
Right after I get the Bondtech and before I finish getting it installed, Prusa makes this announcement. Feel like I should be able to send them the bill for it since I got it to address issues Prusa wouldn't. I am loosing a lot of my enthusiasm I once had for Prusa.
@@cybrsage Nice to hear. But anyway "new part" only can mean new printed housing, as the filament sensors chamber is part of the housing. Simply adding a new chamber for new filament sensor on top of the old chamber (at the place normaly the top cover goes) and a tube "bridging" the space of the old chamber would be an simple and cheap solution for everyone who already have the sls printed housing from bondtech and do not want to throw it away - but it can be problematic with mmu2s. Without mmu2s you not realy need to change to new sensor. Never change a running system. If you look at 3djake (german website), the Bondtech mk3 costs about 86€, without pencake stepper motor. A Bondtech BMG costs 89€. So nearly the same price, but the mk3 upgrade has a bigger sls print but not include the filament gears. So you can estimate the cost of the big sls print. So the main critic on Bondtechs mk3 upgrade: They should give more optinions: Complete, (for business users) Complete without pencake stepper (this option exists on 3d jake) Mechanical parts only (reduction gear, bearings, screws, nuts...) to print the head yourself (hobbyists). The last option missing is the point. It would be much cheaper. Due to Prusa constantly improving designs, the Bondtech mk3 upgrade would be to be updated also. With self-printed head its no problem. But pay once a year for a new sls print+postage may be quite expensive for a hobby user. Of course you normaly do not need to do all upgrades if you are satisfied with your printer. The mk3s upgrade is somehow special as you need it for more reliability using MMU. But normaly no need to upgrade any time Prusa makes improvements. I think, its a bad decission of Bondtech not to release a "mechanical parts only" set. Looking on the prices in their part shop (sadly very high shiping rates) it would cost about 40€. I compared my original bondtech bmg housing (sls-print nylon pa12) with my self printed mk3 upgrade housing (fdm print with pet-g 20% carbon fiber). Look and feels nearly the same, exept some overhangs need postprocessing. It is a totaly different situation if you buy a 86€ set (without stepper) and than only a few days later you throw away an sls printed part worth the halve of the set, or if you pay about the halve price, print your own part for 5€ ( for high quality material, if you use cheap pet-g its only about 1€) and throw away this 5€- part only and replace it with a new print. I would like prusa to integrate the geared design into their regular mk3... But the next step up should be the mellows dual drive bmg. It's not a simple Bondtech clone like there are many on AliExpress, but a real improved version. Its case is made from Aluminium and works as coldend. So you do not have a Grovemount, but you screw in your heatbreak directly. Not only it has less hight (so moding bowden systems to direct extruder you do not loose so much print hight), but this way the length between gears and nozzle is shorter. As not only the molten plastic but also 1.75mm filament in a 2mm tube is elastic and increases time between extruder steps and filament actual flows out of the nozzle, this can make flow even more precise. I am very interested to find out and ordered one.
A bit late to the party, but i can't help notice you reinsert the ptfe locking ring. But as i see it, the extruder is meant to press down on the tube to keep it into place, by design. You essentially undid this by locking the ptfe tube into place. Also, they recommend a 5mm length prothrusion. Check the official installation guide . th-cam.com/video/dTUppEUFXVE/w-d-xo.html
I don't think it is a 3 to 1 ratio unless it uses the big gear shift !!!and it is not , or else it is a mirror of the original prusa mk3 comes with ...
I recently buy a cr10s pro and i want to upgrade it to bondtech and pancake stepper motor. Do i need to adjust the vrep or voltage to my stepper drivers?
That's a novel attiture to a product review. It didn't make any difference to your printer but you're gonna recommend it anyway cos you like the folks who produced it? I wish I could afford your patronage too.
Fair go buddy. I didn't recommend it, just said that I'm happy to showcase it on my channel. People are intelligent and have my results to view to make their own informed decision.
This is just for people who get bored, if they can’t take something apart. What is wrong with the standard MK3 head? Fingers off of a running system!!!
I'm sorry, but I cannot really see the upgrade here either (except better part cooling, for which I think there are less expensive options). I'm saying this honestly, not trying to troll.
I am a newbie to 3D printing. I tried to follow you instructions but you go to fast. And I believe you think that most people have a good understanding of what's going on But unfortunately I do not. I could not follow you very well and just gave up
the same exact result, for 100 dollars, sounds fishy you know I'd say it's way overrated, bondtech and e3d are overrated sure, they have "dual drive" and "high torque", but anyone can do that, and not have to pay a premium for it
Frank and Telling statement : 'More fun to modify our printers than use them' .
Certainly accurate for 90 % of us .
It's great to see more humans jumping onto the new extruder. I'll answer a few of the concerns and misconceptions provided in the comments.
1. Far more has been done than just adding 3:1 to the bondtech.
-all new cooling for the heatbreak which lowers internal temp for better retractions and far better low layer height printing.
-100% aligned filament path which none of the stock prusa extruders have.
-cooler motor operation and no residule heat to the gears. This is an issue with direct 1:1 extruders where motor heat is transfered to the gears.
-best retractions available. Most users can use less retraction which improves print quality and releives pressure in the hotend.
2. It's completely open source. Just like your prusa all files are available to print or modify. Yes. You can just make this on your own. There is already a user who converted the files to be fdm printer friendly.
3. Higher heat resistance than stock. Better than ABS thermal properties so less chance of melting it.
4. Better layer performance. Compared to stock the majority of users see print quality improvements. Some more drastic than others because the rest of the printers assembly matters but if you've done the rest correct your prints will be better nice posted numerous prints that are just stellar using this mod.
I think too many viewers took this as a full scientific test. I can that reusing the same settings is actual bad in this instance. This is an entirely different extruder and optimal printing settings vary greatly from stock. I've built profiles for this extruder to help users get started right away instead of using bad settings.
Chris, I feel like I don't more but higher retraction speed.
Where have you posted the profiles? I would like one for both S3D and Slic3r PE.
@@cybrsageThe firmware and profiles are listed on Bontechs site. They posted a link to his Github.
I didn't see this as a scientific test either. There are alot of people not optimizing their print settings for each filament either. That benchy looked bad and my Mk3 didn't print that bad with stock profiles in PLA or PETG.
@@Deneteus my Google photo isn't level 0 today, can you provide a link to location?
The underside bridging looked substantially better! The extrusion was more consistent throughout.
More constant extrusion is exactly the the point. Some (not all) users of the mk3 had problems with inconsitant extrusion (issue #602). And while the exact reason for that issue is not known, the community found ou it can be solved using a bondtech bmg. First with modified prusa-printhead to insert a normal bondtech bmg, than with a merged version.
But you do not need a pencake stepper to archive this effect; I use the normal one and it has very constant extrusion.
If you print the housing of this upgrade (www.thingiverse.com/thing:3347150) and modify the fanduct not to interfere with the normal stepper motor, you only need some parts you can get from aliexpress (about 15€) to get the same improvement.
I actualy use the version with seperate Bondtech BMG (www.thingiverse.com/thing:3206085), it works very well. Only somtimes inserting filament needs a second try, as between filament sensor and BMG is a little gap briged by an ptfe tube. No problem at all in normal use, but a problem using mmu2. As this upgrade is reported a working well with mmu2, I will give it a try. I allready printed the housing with PET-G/Carbon, so next weekend I will try it.
I still can’t get over being able to run that nice @ 100mms even stock! I swear I’ll own a prusa one day and stop drooling on my key board every time I hear his name!
Any printer can run at 200mm/s. How impressive that is depends on your acceleration and jerk values.
Sir thank you for the info on the upgrade. I think the reduction in weight is a plus to reduce wear on the printer.
It amused me to hear how much you and I think alike about our 3D printers. I have my Prusa Mk3 which I resist the temptation to modify beyond very small things (build plates, mostly) because it's my go-to workhorse for when I need to get something printed. And I have my Anycubic and Creality printers where... I've lost track at this point how much time I've spent tuning and tweaking and upgrading them, because I enjoy that about as much as I do actually making things.
Anyway... loving the content... keep the upgrade/tweaking/tuning videos coming!
Excellent video, as always.
I’d love to own a Prusa MK3. On my wish list of printers.
X2
dude get one. no bed levelling bollocks. its fantastic.
Just know that when the hot end screws up, which it will, Prusa will NOT stand band their “warranty”. The experience has been similar to used car dealer vehicle warranty.
Excellent review of the installation and testing of the Bondtech extruder upgrade. I have Bondtech BMG extruders on my other printers, and am pleased with them. I haven’t upgraded my MK3 yet, but it is good to know the option is out there if I feed the need.
It is clear in the instructions that there is still a bolt to retain the filament sensor, just to the right of the idler door. I have 2 of them, and both are screwed down.
It’s a great upgrade! Mine prints like butter.
new studio looking good! I would say the main camera placement is a smidgen high though.
There is an ugly air conditioner on the wall ruining my shot unless I go high and able down :(
Great video. I've been looking at the Bondtech upgrade, especially since they just did a new refresh of the design for the MK3s and that the Mosquito extruder is available. While the Mosquito won't by itself improve performance the cold nozzle changes and potential for much faster print speeds jives with the geared Bondtech quite well.
love the Klein bottle in the background!
Fantastic walk-through Michael. I'm the same as you regarding upgrades to printers, I too find it more satisfying that the actual printing. My MK2 is my daily driver, although I do have smoother rods and Drylin bearings to replace. The other printers are my 'tinker' machines, especially the Borg.
Huge thanks to the others in the community that helped with this.
And one week after this video, prusa releases MK3S with upgraded extruder
Lol, agree. Mods just make the hobby much more fun and interesting. As always great video.
perfection is not for the faint hearted :)
As someone who got a dual drive extruder I can safely say **that they really do let you crank the speed up...*** Just be aware that you shouldn't go too quick unless your hotend can handle it because the extruder itself can crank out so much pressure it can rip the bowden tube out of the clamp on a bowden system.
If i have mk3s+ do i still need upgrade to this? Does price different is justifyable?
Thank for this, wouldn't of upgraded without it.
Interesting to see how this might compare to the new MK3S upgrade.
This upgrade is essentially (without the parts being printed SLS) what comes with the MK3S correct?
recently bought a mk3s, what are the benefits of upgrading to the bondtech kit? read on Bontechs page that one should use a mosquito hotend as well.
I would advise you to carefully remove the rust from the bondtech gears and a dap of grease on the gears and on the needle bearings in the idler gear like bondtech advises! Prusa also does that since a few months
With two gears after one another ( necessary for the direction whereas only one wont work) in a triangle setup for the additional gear, the contra wheel could be adjustable. Put the contra wheel with a spring tensioner and a screw in a slide and voila it could work for both 1,75 &3
Great video Mike. I was really excited that it might reduce the time it takes to unjam my Prusa when it acts up but looks like it will be still a real job to do. I might have to work on an upgraded version of for this machine now that the Ender 3 Direct Drive has been such a good success.
Good effort and very well presented. I don't get why the Mk3 has this ringing issue :-( I never noticed it on my Mk2s. You'd think that the Mk3 frame should be more rigid and the smooth trinamic drivers would create less vibration. So what's the deal? why has no one cured this yet?
You are not encountering ringing because you probably use default perimeters print speed profiles, which are much slower then 200mm/s presented in video. You can avoid ringing on rectangular object when printing in high speed by decreasing jerk rate and still have high overall speed. I am using 170mm/s for big inner perimeters, 130mm/s for big outer perimeters and Maximum jerk X and Y decreased to 2 mm/s with good results.
Thank you for very nice review! :)
the change is simple but now the retractions are a real headache. What parameters of retraction and speed do you have to be able to get an idea?
Is this absolite after new filament sensor on MK3s? Cause this does not work good with translusent/transparent materials?
I couldn't help but notice the large, blue 3D printed whatchamacallit behind you, to your right. What is it called? Is it specific to one of your vids? Are the STL files available to work with?
At some point I will watch all/most of your vids, but wanted to save some time with this one. Great channel, btw! Keep the excellent content coming.
Hi Ron, here is the video with links in the description: th-cam.com/video/kLtnRwV2jRk/w-d-xo.html
Were you actually talking about his right, as opposed to our right? In that case, that's a Klein bottle.
You mentioned in the video that the filament sensor is not bolted on. It should be bolted using an M3X10
Printing at 100 mm/s seems a bit problematic, even if it could do it after that upgrade. That's quite the upgrade and you detailed it very nicely! (I'll continue to print slower and not have to re-do my print jobs!)
I print at 120mm all the time on my cr10s pro
Glowey Bacon off course you can... at least teorically goes to 120mm/s... but quality will be low or lower then in a 60mm/s. And most of the time your slicer speed is not the final result, to know your real speed you should consider accel and jerk in your firmware. Insert your printer data and know exactly how is your speed in: gcodeanalyser
in your firmware and even in your slicer... there are a lot of speed limitations to considerer. One thing is fact... if you go slower you’ve got better quality prints considering your structure is enought rigid and well posicioned
where can I get the files for the part cooling fan upgrade? and whit which material are they printed?
Excellent!
For people with a stock mk3, prusa released a new extruder last summer, which also tilts the part cooling fan like this upgrade does. See shop.prusa3d.com/forum/general-discussion-announcements-and-releases-f61/new-printed-parts-b7-r3-and-other-improvements-for-t25616.html
I was thinking of buying this upgrade but after seeing this video I think I might save my money. The results show no improvement over the stock parts.
Stephen Boyd that's because no tweaking of settings were done to harness what the extruder can do. Using good settings for one extruder you've spent time tuning and throwing it on another isn't scientific. It in fact isn't how you should test things. You need a properly tuned profile for each setup to see which prints better overall.
jimmer clones are trash and hurt the originators. Buying a clone is the same and saying screw you for making this awesome product and stealing is fine. Bondtech does own copyright to the BMG.
I think the big pro of this is the massive Tork you get. I have Issues with 0.25mm Nozzels because of jamming. With that Tork Upgrade it should be easy to print with. Would be nice to see another Video About it.
I know this is old now but the mark s makes the improvements he mentions anyway for no more cost. Lol
I know this is old, but I feel the added heat resistance of the sintered parts is being overlooked. I warped the factory provided extruder body (specifically, the PINDA mount) printing in polycarbonate. The SLS parts will weather those temps far better.
I find overall performance printing PC far better with this extruder, the additional torque making it much easier to extrude at higher pressures that really help with PC layer adhesion.
Hello, is this x-carrier also suitable for the anycubic i3 mega s?
If Pruisa wanted to be twice as rich. He should sell optional upgrade kits with metal parts.
Eagerly Waiting for mks Gen L - 2208 driver upgrade video :).... Thanks
Ordered 2208s a week and a half ago, listed as in stock and paid for overnight postage. I'm not happy about it at all.
I should clarify they still haven't come.
@@TeachingTech the day you had the 1st video of mks Gen L, I ordered combo of tft28, 2208 and Gen L from aliexpress ;) all reached in 15 days.. Now wating :)
Did you ordered 2130s as well? I'm waiting for that one too. Big thanks again for the remarkable job on this...
The filament sensor does need a retaining screw, the original one should fit.
Why not add a connector or solder the cables?
I have the cr10s and constantly print at 100mm/s since I'm impatient. Seems to work alright except for some minor ringing on very small parts and often when doing letters with a negative profile Cura seems to change the printers direction and the corners become uneven. It might be the SD card though.
I did this upgrade but after i got some small isue with bad first layer getting gaps between the lines ,did a check extrution and it extruded 100mm when i asked it to . So alitle at loss what do do
Ive got the MK3S, ive ordered my MK3S Bondtech upgrade and just wondering can I just use the gcode shown in the video or should I upload the firmware from the bondtech website?
Nice, thanks for sharing :-)
So what is the difference? I thought the prusa extruder drive was dual gears too?
wouldnt it an better upgrade to change to bowden and reduce weight on the printhead?
I think this solved the err: 602 "inconsistent extrusion" !
Can I easily print Flex with this extruder? I'm looking for a good extruder which can print 82A Flex and fits the i3 MK3S or CR-10S Pro.
I was waiting for someone to review this, so thank you. Too bad this upgrade doesn't have a great difference for 1/7 of my printers price. You would probably expect more
Ido de Lepper it actually makes a lot of difference but the video wasn't a huge testing video. Install and initial thoughts.
Do you have a simplify profile that works well on the mk3? I have not used s3d since the mk3 first came out. I had too many issues with it.
Question... Is the printer the problem at 100mm/s... Or the extruder. To say the extruder made no difference is problematic... Because there is no testing to show that that the extruder made no difference. Mostly the test showed that the lower stepper weight at 100mm/s did not improve surface finish. More AB testing is required... In my humble opinion, but thats just my research background kicking in.
Anyway, my best performance improvements with Bondtech on my printers has been with improved melt rate. Faster printing via deposition rate... Not tool head speed.
But great tutorial as usual. Keep making great videos. I'll keep watching them.
Eric Lien Good point! More tests are needed. This kind of upgrade for me doesn’t point to a speed increasing but volume of extrusion. I wanna see tests with wider nozzles and more mm^3/s (speed x nozzle diameter x layer high). And also flexible materials tests to check retraction improvements and precision.
Do they have a MK3 Bondtech that is MMU2 compatible? I can't seem to recall.
the real question is, does it solve issue 602? also seems like just going back to the original mk2s extruder would be a step ahead... i mean ditch the bondetch gears and just go back to the single gear... less or no 602, it worked fine since it's not geared so it skips before it even grinds filament.... plus it's free.... why are we spending more money on something they should be fixing for free? if you want to pump out plastic faster with a larger nozzle then use this.
How do you adjust the tension on the extruder?
Great video. If I was going to use a pancake stepper motor on my direct drive Ender 3, would the pancake stepper motor have any print quality decreases?
A pencake stepper has less torque (about a third). You may reduce the current of the stepper.
If your Ender 3 uses an geared extruder like Titan or Bondtech BMG (or cloned: Dual Drive BGM on Aliexpress), the gear ratio is 3:1. So the force the filament is pushed through the hotend is the same as the normal stepper with an ungeared extruder.
This is one (of two) reasons for using geared extruders:
1. You get more tourqe with the same stepper (mostly needed on 2.85mm Filament) or the same torque with a smaller stepper (less weight of moving mass; less ringing on x-axis)
2. As microsteps mostly make movements smart, but do not have much torqe, 3:1 means also three times of full-step (high torque) resolution in extrusion of filament. Using a 0.9° Pencake stepper, you have even 6 times the full force resolution. Meaning: reducing any moiree or salmon-skin effects. And of course more precise extrusion if you use a small nozzle like 0.2mm.
I am not using using a geared extruder, so can I use the pancake stepper, or do I have to make a geared 3:1 setup to get normal torque with it? Or could I just set the flow (extrusion multiplier) to 300% in Cura.
@@jamescerven4400 Sorry but I hope you understand a little joke:
If you have a bound door and and a smal boy do not have the force to open it, multiple trys dont help. He needs someone bigger with more force - or a lever.
An extrusion multiplier only make more tries. If the force is not enough, any try fails, no extrusion. If the force is enough, all trys work - and you put to many filament out.
So only use a pencake with an geared extruder like titan or bondtech bmg (the clones bondtech bmg are called "Dual Drive BMG" on Aliexpress. The cloned Titan are called Titan...).
For good printing quality you need a mostly constant flowrate. So max accereration and max speed should be the same in x and y direction.
Ringing depends on accelleration, speed and mass (mostly). So on the ender 3 it depends on the weight of the printbed. A normal direct extruder weights less. So no need to reduce weigth with a pencake stepper.
Only reasons in case of an Ender3:
V-Slot wheels live longer (but cheap to change or replace by better ones)
Of course the construction of the Ender 3 with only one z-leadscrew can make problems with heavy weights. But I think a normal direct extruder would be O.K. Else adding a second leadscrew for z would be the better solution instead spending to much money on an geared extruder with pencake...
Thanks for the help. Great advice!!!
7:06.i feel like those needle bearings could use a little bit of oil.
I recently install a Bondtech extruder with capricorn tube (both originals). I also have an e3d V6 hotend for a while and I´ve replaced the nozzle two weeks ago, BUT my printer keeps underextruding. I´m printing PETG at 55-65 mm at 245 degrees and it works very well for an hour or so, until it starts to underextrude plastic and ruins every single print I try. I´m pretty frustrated right now, ´cause I´ve try every trick in the book...
BTW, both benchys and XYZ calibration cubes are printing without any problems righ out the SD card, so the underextrusion only appears when I print for longer times.
ANY idea will be accepted.
do the Triangle labs BMG clone on the Ender 3. I have 2 of them and love them. one in Bowden, one with petsfang big direct drive. waiting for a pancake motor tho to lighten up the the direct drive, but its printing great. prob going to convert the Bowden over to the petsfang soon just so all my printers are the same.
Owing to the fact that this should never slip on the filament, and knowing the diameter of the extruder wheels and the feed rate and the controller knowing when it is feeding and retracting etc, how hard would it be to estimate the length of filament used on each print? Just curious. Could an 8 bit controller do this?
Slic3r tell you lenght, weight and (if you gave the price/kg in filament settings) the price after generating the g-code. Why should the printer controller calculate it?
I didn't fully read the video title, so I thought this was going to be adding a Bondtech extruder to an Ender 3 lol
13:02 ....... cooling issue, not extruder. Also v6 HotEnd is outdated, if you upgrade, use Dragon, Mosquito or similar.
when is your cr-10s pro review coming?
Get it. It is really good I love mine
@@noahvs1999 Good, I will!
The 3:1 drive isn't from the stepper, it's from the extruder's gears. You've got a geared extruder, not a geared stepper motor.
I never claimed the stepper is geared.
@@TeachingTech 2:00
I looked into SLS printing this online and its about the same as it would be buying it and you wouldn't get all the metal bits. What temps can this handle without melting?
Deneteus thermal Properties are slightly better than ABS.
@@Mr3DPrintWizard Is it glass fiber reinforced nylon?
You didn’t 3D print the cooling upgrade prusa made that is standard with all models. It is an unfair evaluation now.
This was acknowledged in the video. I even had a screen of prusa's newsletter when it was released.
Teaching Tech I know, but that makes the results different and I think it should have been included on the video.
Teaching Tech I really liked the video though and found it really informative despite that.
what would be better, mk3s upgrade or bond-tech replacement?
I have both, and it would be better to go for the MK3S upgrade. The completely new filament sensor works a lot better, and there's no difference in print quality that I can discern.
Please Good Sir. Please make a detailed video of the BondTech DDX for Creality printers. Preferably the CR10s Pro.
Thank you
-a viewer and subscriber.
I own a Cocoon Create..... which is a clone of the wanaho i3 v2..... which is a clone of a Prusa i3, point is my AUD $350 printer does a great job with a few mods.
I really want a CR10s Pro that printer looks amazing.
I have a Cocoon Create Touch, Please check out an early series I did on the channel modding it to be flexibles specific.
7:16 that's too much information.
Can this be used with the MMU 2.0?
Yes, some people have posted they are using it with the MMU2.
Yes. But not with MMU2s and mk3s, the free update all mmu2 users will get. The new filament sensor will not fit.
Of course the community will react soon with a modified design. But I do not think Bondtech will send new sls printed parts to all Bondtech mk3 upgrade buyers for free.
So print the upgrade yourself (I used pet-g cf 20; works fine), only buy the mechanical parts needed if you go to mk3s the next months anyway.
0:26 yes
A good upgrade is to remove the direct drive extruder to a bowden, it is much easier to load, had much less inertia on the x axis and you get much less issues from belt slack etc. You remove almost half a kilo if it had a normal motor and gears., wich you can convert into faster printspeed by having a much lighter x axis.
Also, combined with an ezr struder, a bowden setup prints flexibles (yes even ninjaflex) with ease and at speeds comparable to direct drive setups. Too many people think direct drive is an upgrade when from everything I've seen, the opposite is true. The only real advantage I can see with direct drive is less retraction and therefore shorter print times (sometimes it's substantial time saved) but IMO that's not enough reason to choose it over a good bowden setup with a nice extruder like the ezr.
I can’t believe the prusa printers are held together with zip ties.
You can get the STL for a bondtech bmg housing as thing:3182969 and an modified mk3-head as thing:3165551. So you only need to buy the reduction gears and some parts for less than 15$ by Aliexpress to get nearly the same result. As you mostly print same speed/acceleration in x and y anyway, there is no need to reduce weight of the stepper. You can the original one, as lower weight on x will only reduce ringing in x direction a little, but do nothing for y.
Its an good solution if you have the inconsistent extrusion problem (issue 602) or if you use low diameter nozzle like 0.2mm (as you get more full-step resolution). You may even use a 0.9° stepper to get 6 times the resolution of the normal mk3. If you have not the 602 issue (yet) you do not need the update (yet).
Have you tested the filament sensor? In original mk3 it is mostly useless, as it triggers often false. The reason: Prusa develepoed the head with ABS, but produces it in PET-G. PET-G is a much more refelctive material, so using black PET-G does not help to get the sensor reliable. I used black non-reflective paint inside the chamber of the sensor - no false alarms anymore. Perfectly reliable.
The material of the Bondtech mk3 update seem much less reflective as PET-G. Have you checked if it improves the sensors usefullness? Maybe you should print the sensor cover in othe, none reflective material (or paint it on its underside)
You can get that motor and all the other parts, printed in a better material, for under $15?
@@cybrsage As I said, the pencake stepper is not needed. The printbed is the heavy moving part, to avoid ringing in y-axis you reduce speed/acell anyway. As you always use same x/y speed/acell, you gain no advantage of a new motor. You may buy one on aliexpress for another 10-15$, but you do not need to. If you do, you may use a 0.9° Stepper for even higher resolution of full steps.
PET-G works well. Bondtechs material looks and feel nicer and is stronger - but that does not effect the print quality. Of course a self printed PET-housing may need some postprocessing (using fille or drill). You do not even need high-quality high-constant with PET-G (like prusament). The printing head have to work, not to be a beauty queen.
You can buy all the parts like reduction gear etc. seperatly on Aliexpress for about 13$. But you can simply get a Bondtech BMG Clone for 17 $US including shipping:
de.aliexpress.com/item/3D-Printer-Parts-BMG-Extruder-Cloned-Btech-Dual-Drive-Extruder-Bowden-Extruder-Filament-Dual-Gear-For/32969060157.html
The 4$ extra spares waiting for many different parcels arriving.
The quality is good - exept for the filament gears. But you have allready the originals from bondtech in your mk3, so you do not need the cheap cloned ones.
So the simple solution: Buy the "Dual Drive BMG" from Aliexpress, print www.thingiverse.com/thing:3165551 in PET-G.
So for 17 USD + some filament + some ptfe tube you get functional the same as for 100 USD at Bondtech.
Extruder modifications a constantly improved by users. The Bondtech mk3 upgrade is high quality. But what happens, if somone optimice ventilation even more? So the thingiverse solution (using a bondtech BMG inserted to a modified head) seems more flexible.
I am very happy with it.
Only thing to test: How well it works with MMU2?
Filament sensor works for me, I only have issues when I use translucent materials.
What does that have to do with the upgrade that you are not matching like? It appears tou just want to complain. If that is your goal, just say so and we will just ignore you.
@@cybrsage I do not understand your comment. You already ignore me.
I wrote "As you mostly print same speed/acceleration in x and y anyway, there is no need to reduce weight of the stepper. "
Your comment: "You can get that motor and all the other parts...".
Before you comment a post, you should read it and try to understand it. Ore become member of Trumps goverment, you will fit in perfectly.
I complained nothing about the upgrade. I simply replied to all the comments complaining about the high price for only slight improvement.
And reported, that you can get the same slight improvements for much less money, if you use the Thingiverse solution with a Bondtech BMG and modified printhead for much less money. It can use either the original stepper or a pencake.
Of course I like the bondtech product. But it is a very high price if you can get reduction gear etc. directly from Bondtech for about 35$ (+Vat+shipping), so you pay 70$ for SLS-printed parts and pencake stepper.
If you use your mk3 for business - O.K. But as a hobby you may look for cheaper solution.
Most people would need the upgrade to solve the inconstent extrusion issue - wich is caused mostly by microsteps having much less torque than full steps. Using a geared extruder on the mk3 is NOT about using a stepper motor with less weight to reduce ringing. No sense to reduce weight of printhead, if you move a heavy bed anyway. Reducing weight of a printhead is goal for using direct-extruder on printers like ultimaker.
So the expensive pencake stepper is nice, but not needed. If you do not have the inconsitent extrusion issue, you do not need an upgrade anyway. Like the video shows - not much improvements. The improvements shown you also get with the thingiverse-solution.
So if your mk3 is used in business and you have problems - and time is money - buy the Bondtech mk3 upgrade. But if you are a private user and only solve inconsistent extrusion issue more than 100$ is a high prise. So think about the much cheaper solution.
You do not understand that the sensor has nothing to do with this upgrade? I cannot help you with that, other than to say the sensor is not part of the upgrade.
Mine just works, cannot help you if yours does not.
The Bondtech mk3 upgrade already got outdated. Prusa changed their filament sensor and made the mk3s. The upgrade is mandatory if you use mmu2, as the upgrade to mmu2s with mk3s upgrade is free for every mmu2 user. The new sensor is needed, because on normal mmu2 prusa did not use the old filament sensor due to reliability problems. The new sensor is "opto mechanical". Using the upgrade to mmu2s and mk3s will result in higher reliability on multimaterial.
So anyone with mmu who got the Bondtech mk3 upgrade might throw the nice sls printed part away as the new filament sensor will not fit there. Hopefully the community will change the design, so you could keep the other parts. But the housing is about a quarter to a third of the price the upgrade cost. As a new stepper motor is not needed anyway the only parts usefull in long term are the reduction gears, ballbearing and the lever-screw. You can get them much more cheap, even from Bondtech...
Definitly as nice as sls prints are - on a printer constantly improved by manufacturer its not a good idea to invest the money.
www.prusaprinters.org/original-prusa-i3-mk3s-and-mmu2s-release-sl1-and-powder-coated-sheets-update/
Just read the update this morning. Now i have to decide whether I pursue a MK3S or not.
@@TeachingTech In your case the decission is simple. Use the Bondtech mk3 upgrade as you already have it and the mk3s is mandatory only if you use an mmu2. Filament sensor is the only change that matters on mk3s, as improving cooling is done by the Bondtech mk3 upgrade also.
As soon as the community updates the design of the Bondtech mk3 upgrade to work with new filament sensor print it with pet-g (maybe with carbon fibers, looks and feels nearly as good as the pa12cf Bondtech uses), buy the mk3s upgrade and use booth
@@oleurgast730 Dollars to Donuts says Bond Tech comes out with a new part that can be purchased.
Right after I get the Bondtech and before I finish getting it installed, Prusa makes this announcement. Feel like I should be able to send them the bill for it since I got it to address issues Prusa wouldn't. I am loosing a lot of my enthusiasm I once had for Prusa.
@@cybrsage Nice to hear. But anyway "new part" only can mean new printed housing, as the filament sensors chamber is part of the housing.
Simply adding a new chamber for new filament sensor on top of the old chamber (at the place normaly the top cover goes) and a tube "bridging" the space of the old chamber would be an simple and cheap solution for everyone who already have the sls printed housing from bondtech and do not want to throw it away - but it can be problematic with mmu2s.
Without mmu2s you not realy need to change to new sensor. Never change a running system.
If you look at 3djake (german website), the Bondtech mk3 costs about 86€, without pencake stepper motor. A Bondtech BMG costs 89€. So nearly the same price, but the mk3 upgrade has a bigger sls print but not include the filament gears. So you can estimate the cost of the big sls print.
So the main critic on Bondtechs mk3 upgrade: They should give more optinions:
Complete, (for business users)
Complete without pencake stepper (this option exists on 3d jake)
Mechanical parts only (reduction gear, bearings, screws, nuts...) to print the head yourself (hobbyists).
The last option missing is the point. It would be much cheaper. Due to Prusa constantly improving designs, the Bondtech mk3 upgrade would be to be updated also. With self-printed head its no problem. But pay once a year for a new sls print+postage may be quite expensive for a hobby user.
Of course you normaly do not need to do all upgrades if you are satisfied with your printer. The mk3s upgrade is somehow special as you need it for more reliability using MMU. But normaly no need to upgrade any time Prusa makes improvements.
I think, its a bad decission of Bondtech not to release a "mechanical parts only" set. Looking on the prices in their part shop (sadly very high shiping rates) it would cost about 40€.
I compared my original bondtech bmg housing (sls-print nylon pa12) with my self printed mk3 upgrade housing (fdm print with pet-g 20% carbon fiber). Look and feels nearly the same, exept some overhangs need postprocessing.
It is a totaly different situation if you buy a 86€ set (without stepper) and than only a few days later you throw away an sls printed part worth the halve of the set, or if you pay about the halve price, print your own part for 5€ ( for high quality material, if you use cheap pet-g its only about 1€) and throw away this 5€- part only and replace it with a new print.
I would like prusa to integrate the geared design into their regular mk3...
But the next step up should be the mellows dual drive bmg. It's not a simple Bondtech clone like there are many on AliExpress, but a real improved version. Its case is made from Aluminium and works as coldend. So you do not have a Grovemount, but you screw in your heatbreak directly.
Not only it has less hight (so moding bowden systems to direct extruder you do not loose so much print hight), but this way the length between gears and nozzle is shorter. As not only the molten plastic but also 1.75mm filament in a 2mm tube is elastic and increases time between extruder steps and filament actual flows out of the nozzle, this can make flow even more precise. I am very interested to find out and ordered one.
A bit late to the party, but i can't help notice you reinsert the ptfe locking ring. But as i see it, the extruder is meant to press down on the tube to keep it into place, by design. You essentially undid this by locking the ptfe tube into place.
Also, they recommend a 5mm length prothrusion.
Check the official installation guide .
th-cam.com/video/dTUppEUFXVE/w-d-xo.html
I don't think it is a 3 to 1 ratio unless it uses the big gear shift !!!and it is not , or else it is a mirror of the original prusa mk3 comes with ...
0:25 X2
I recently buy a cr10s pro and i want to upgrade it to bondtech and pancake stepper motor. Do i need to adjust the vrep or voltage to my stepper drivers?
That's a novel attiture to a product review. It didn't make any difference to your printer but you're gonna recommend it anyway cos you like the folks who produced it? I wish I could afford your patronage too.
Fair go buddy. I didn't recommend it, just said that I'm happy to showcase it on my channel. People are intelligent and have my results to view to make their own informed decision.
This is just for people who get bored, if they can’t take something apart. What is wrong with the standard MK3 head? Fingers off of a running system!!!
Good video. But i think i have better to do with 100$.
why upgrade it prusa can do no wrong
I'm sorry, but I cannot really see the upgrade here either (except better part cooling, for which I think there are less expensive options). I'm saying this honestly, not trying to troll.
It's a fair point. A lot of folks might try it if they were experiencing the inconsistent extrusion issue.
Better heatsink cooling too, thanks to Grégoire Saunier.
The improvement in quality is actually pretty stunning.
so in summary no real advantages from the expensive switch...
Khalid Abed there are lots of advantages. None were mentioned as it seems more of an overview vs in-depth.
I am a newbie to 3D printing. I tried to follow you instructions but you go to fast. And I believe you think that most people have a good understanding of what's going on
But unfortunately I do not. I could not follow you very well and just gave up
the same exact result, for 100 dollars, sounds fishy you know
I'd say it's way overrated, bondtech and e3d are overrated
sure, they have "dual drive" and "high torque", but anyone can do that, and not have to pay a premium for it
My grandma cannot do that. ;) Just saying...not everyone can.
Actually if you follow the product better the results are great. This video didn't cover it extensively.