10+ years of 343-era and not a single one launched with these present and working at launch: Forge, File Share, Theater, Firefight, Customs, Infection, campaign environment variety, appropriate characterization/audio/music/art style. It's a shame and was avoidable as well. Spartan Ops, Warzone and "open world" are just some of the big time sinks that never should've taken priority. What's more: why are there still not playlists for non-ability and ability gameplay? It's an easy solution that doesn't involve choosing one or the other. But frankly, "faster Halo" should have always been an all-directions speed-boost that takes a toll on accuracy via wobble, spread, recoil, etc. Way more fitting for Halo than choosing between moving forward faster or firing. Then there are all the Halo Wars vehicles that haven't made it into so much as customs. People want to see Halo advance as Halo, not be a mish-mash of trend-chasing attempts born from not understanding why trends/mechanics work in other IP. Tap into Halo's existing potential that's been ignored for way too long now. One wouldn't even end up with Halo ___ again if you tried considering differences in code, online performance, campaign plot and more that would naturally arise. Some still like to play older games in spite of certain downsides, but they would want a new game that addresses those actual issues (hitreg is not a matter of preference after all). Touching on Reach, detail have come out since it released that 343 should definitely be aware of if a fan can be. Even Marcus, who having become creative director has more reason than anyone to still think it's "all of the right things put together", thinks non-ability gameplay has aged better: th-cam.com/video/JfJCQbJA3v0/w-d-xo.html Bungie's own farewell video touches on how abilities fundamentally change the way the game is played: th-cam.com/video/OtG6--4r_qk/w-d-xo.html So if you add that to major changes in art, music and characterization, plus increasing the number of abilities people spawn with, plus launch new Halo titles with major features missing/broken, no wonder people stick around much less than they used to. And if that all weren't enough, lead gameplay designers Max and Jaime are on record for keeping sprint alone out of the games when they had fuller say. If you check imdb, mobygames and halopedia you'll notice Jaime is a major designer or even lead designer for some Halo games, but not for Reach. This was one of many position changes that happened during Reach (along with Marcus going from beautiful art to creative director), while Jaime was having much of his attention pulled by Destiny development. This all also adds up with his statement that a lot of additions to Reach were things he had denied previously: twitter.com/32nds/status/1366498761707458561 But just based on how many interactions change due to abilities, someone working in games for a living should've seen errors made in a spin-off should not have continued in 4, 5 or Infinite, except as playlists on the side. Abilities are great for customs too. Reach simply and rather obviously was not a model to follow. That earlier bit about trading accuracy for speed? I don't believe it's superior to non-ability Halo, simply more fitting for Halo than Armor/Spartan abilities.
@@matthewdanahy9411why do you write this comment? why watch this video if you just dismiss the topic? there are people who still want new versions of the classic experience, is that so hard to believe?
@@NITROOOO_YOhow can you be so sure? Anytime there is news about halo, there is a massive buzz of people who are are interested, because they still want that experience to be revitilized.
Counter Strike 2 is proof you can make a game similar to a classic and succeed. CS2 isn't that different than the original CS from more than 20 years ago and nearly 1 million are playing it right now.
For CS, all you need is new weapons, balance tweaks, newer graphics, updated mechanics (not always new but updated, see the smoke grenade physics), new maps, and voila.
CS is literally better then halo and it aged way better then halo did I am new to halo and the combat in that game is frustrating as hell literally having the default weapons in halo suck compared to the special weapons and the special weapons are so weird to play with the combat in halo sucks compared to CS
Oh boy, this is not a good example. CS2 is just CSGO remastered with a few tweaks. The only reason why it's a massive hit is because all CSGO players were forced to convert since CS2 completely replaced CSGO. If anything, the player count is slowly dropping because of Valve's lack of communication and the ongoing cheater fest going on. Counter-Strike as a brand will always do fine due to its legacy and reputation, but CS2 is not doing well for its standards. Plus, CSGO is popular worldwide, so naturally there are going to be a lot of consistent players. Halo is mainly a North American thing as Halo was exclusive to consoles for most of its existence, so player count will most likely be restricted to regions that have a large console player base (mostly North America).
The fact the you even have to explain what 'classic Halo' is to the devs and/or their fanbase is an example of how over Halo as a series really is.. Only hope I see would be an indie dev or AA studio making a game that plays just like Halos 2-3 like what Palword is to Pokémon.
I think it’s genuinely time to give the classic movement a new game We’ve had abilities and advanced movement now since Reach, 14 years ago, and it’s been 17 since Halo 3 There is nothing on the Market like a classic Halo, if it’s good, it’ll probably do pretty well
I think if a new classic Halo game were to come out I think it would be successful just not as successful as Halo 3. But perhaps over time that could change.
Exactly. Halo 3's success didn't just happen overnight. CE and 2 were key factors in 3 succeeding as much as it did. If a modern classic Halo game is to succeed today, the franchise needs to re-establish the original gameplay formula and then innovate off of it instead of changing the identity with each new title.
Counter strike has been the same game and look how many people play it everyday. Halo just needs to stop segmenting the player base and changing halo with every installment. They should have tried new ideas with spinoff games or game modes and not with the main game.
MCC is still busted. If it wasn’t, my friends and I would still be playing Halo regularly. I’ve said this story several times, but it still applies. Months ago, I tried to organize a game night with friends where we all got on and played MCC together. Every time we tried to get through matchmaking, one of us would lag out, and get quit banned every time. After 3 different nights of trying to do this, we just abandoned it and started playing Minecraft. No one has the patience to deal with 343’s incompetence, least of all me. If we could play 360 era H3, we would, but we can’t.
And they did the same for Halo Reach as well, the way this works is if you want to play online you have to join someone who's hosting a matchmaking lobby, that person can host games because he/she has a (JTAG'd/RGH'd/modded Xbox 360.)
I was just thinking this today. I played mcc for the first time in a while and thought to myself how do these people not get tired of using battle rifles over and over again. I love halo 2 but need something with more variety
The BR and precision weapons in general are satisfying weapons as they reward players for having a good combination of precision, tracking, timing, and game mechanics. If you can get either a perfect kill or a good nade with a headshot, you'll feel a small dopamine rush. Compare that to something like the AR where you just hold down the trigger and pray enough bullets hit the player.
Even Bungie said Reach was a spinoff and that's why they were experimenting with things like armour abilities, loadouts, etc, implying that HCE-3 was the true formula for Halo. 343i obviously didn't get this or didn't want to as they based their following games off Reach and not the trilogy.
You are incorrect, the underlying core formula for Halo's gameplay is and always has been the Golden Triangle (Guns, Grenades, Melee). Whether you're playing BTB on H2 or ODST Firefight; the gameplay is built upon the foundation formula of the Golden Triangle. Not to mention, CE/H2/H3 all play VERY differently from each other and it's false to blend all their respective gameplays together to form a ruleset. The way you think 343i was specifically inspired by Reach; but they've failed to produce a game in the last 13+ years that even begins to match the content offering of Reach at launch is hilarious.
@@namelessstranger1270 Then why did 4 and 5 have armour abilities and sprint if the trilogy didn't? You are correct that the golden triangle is Halo's formula but these additions just dilute it. Being able to shoot, grenade and melee while moving in all directions made for a more fluid and pure experience. Also, 343i not being able to meet content expectations has nothing to do with basing it off Reach, just shows their incompetentence when the foundations were already laid. Not sure why that's worth mentioning when we're discussing gameplay anyway.
Halo 5 was when the franchise was considered doomed (Halo 4 wasn't recieved well by a majority) , but everybody still gave infinite a chance. Halo lives in peoples hearts, it will never die due to that reason alone. If they came out with a great Halo game it would be succesful.
Truth be told in terms of gameplay I think 343 gave us the best of both worlds both new and old in Halo Infinite it's just the game didn't launch with as many maps and modes etc which killed a lot of the motivation that people had to enjoy the game.
halo infante didn't fail just because of limited game modes and maps. There is a plethora of reasons why it failed. Free-to-play model, heavy microtransactions, lack luster campaign with NO SPLIT SCREEN (which they have promised would be in the game), shitty and boring weapon sandbox that caters too much to the competitive side. God awful vehicle sandbox, vehicles are mad out of Styrofoam. Equipment was a nice return but 343i failed to understand what made them great. The aiming is broken (which is detrimental for a FIRST PERSON SHOOTER). And the development hell which made a lot of leads leave, resulting in an unfocused vision and a $5 million conflated budget. This scratches the surface to the failure of halo infante.
A true classic halo game, straight up? No compromises nor bad middle grounds? No noob mechanics? As long as it has a high ratio of Ranked:Social playlists, then I could see that happening.
The question is essentially "is 343 and microsoft done being too woke to release a product that consumers actually want and have supported up until they decided that was too good?"
The writing has always been the issue for me, especially with the retcons and Infinite didn’t change my opinion that 343 just cant get it right. Nothing but sappy emotional key-jangling and plotholes.
imagine wanting a new game in the series you love without wanting it to drastically alter its gameplay 😮😮😮😮😮😮😮 If you like the advanced movement so much why don’t you just play Halo 5 and never want a new game ever again for the rest of your life :) See how silly that sounds?
@@joerowland9128 You realize how dumb of an argument it is to try and defend Halo Infinite and compare it to 10+ year old games? That is the sad state 343i fanboys like you find yourselves in. Try comparing Halo Infinite numbers to the original player bases for each game that lasted a long time. You think Halo Infinite having 15 k players means anything? Try having 11 MILLION players. That was Halo 3's player count and was not even the largest player base Bungie had. Not to mention this was in 2009 when not as many people played games as they did now. Don't even bother with these low effort arguments.
you know this gave me thought that the issue with halo (plus all the dumb desitions of 343) its that it became like wow, a seasonal bs, like cod in a way jumping over and over and trying to be the next big thing in halo, trying to catch the same lighint in another bottle, when csgo just improve and made more money that way that releasing new things that are so different from what OG halo build in 3 entries. you know like "going back to square one" willingly when csgo were in square 2000 ahead of halo
@@ShotzzillaThis guy is delusional I loved classic and OG 360 halos But you could only find matches in team slayer And nobody is going to play them again Like I can't played on 30 FPS and 70 FOV anymore MCC keeps these game modernised
Microsoft should give the OG Halo Bungie devs joe Staten, Jason Jones, Marcus Lehto, and Marty O'Donnell the keys to Halo with a new studio: 117 Games. Every old & new fan would be happy and excited for that game. halo 3 is still a masterpiece and the best halo ever made.
@@bingisboyHalo Reach introduced Sprint and Armour abilities which divided the halo fan base So now if a halo game has sprint A bunch of halo fans won't play it The same if a halo game hasn't got Sprint It's pretty obvious that Reach was the downfall
@@joerowland9128 That is ridiculous. First of all, sprint *is* an armor ability (atleast in halo reach). Second, I highly doubt many of the new Halo fans (fans from Halo Reach onwards) wouldn’t play a new Halo game because it doesn’t have sprint. To suggest that this one element of gameplay in one single game is “the downfall of Halo” completely ignores the tons and tons of issues that actually led to Halo losing it’s original audience and become less acclaimed. Yes, armor abilities fractured the original community in 2010 to a certain extent. That is nothing compared to what Halo 4 and 5 did. Halo Reach was still a popular game years after 2010. Halo 4 was dead within like a year. It wasn’t Reach that caused the downfall.
@@bingisboy Armor abilities was literally the downfall of Halo. Halo was always about equal starts until Reach decided to change that, and then Halo 4 followed in its footsteps with more loadouts. Of course Halo 4's downfall was its own doing and 343i's fault, but Bungie was starting to head in the wrong direction. If Halo 4 and 5 weren't so bad, people would not look at Reach as fondly.
Man I wish. Like if they went back the fundamentals of Halo and continued off gameplay wise from Halo 3 they could really have a good halo. No, I'm not saying Halo 3.5 like all the new fans who never played the classics love to tout. I'm talking like Halo 2 was different (but good) compared to Halo CE and Halo 3 was different (and good) compared to Halo 2. Sadly I just don't know if modern gaming and modern gamers would do a classic halo. They are so obsessed with crap like 'sprint' which even in infinite doesn't serve that great a purpose but zoomies need to feel like they are going fast 24/7 because they can't take a second and slow down to play a chess game like Halo used to be. MCC still holds a decent population but I don't think we'll ever get another classic style Halo as much as its all I care for really.
I mean Call of Duty pretty much copy and pasted its mechanics with each game with very little innovation after Modern Warfare. And it turned into a multimillion gaming franchise. So I don't know why people want each new Halo game to be fully different from the previous one. Yes we want some innovation but not a completely different franchise from what it started.
Halo does not need a battle pass, battle royale, armor cores, etc. halo needs to be left as Halo, a game meant to play and enjoy as a complete product on launch, with the staples that make Halo Halo. Trying to make something that is inherently not Halo fit into a Halo game is just asking to have a lesser version of something. Streamers may think trend chasing is the only way to make a game, but it’s a good idea to remind yourself that their opinions are irrelevant to what makes a good game.
Halo needs to go back to its simplest form, back to square one, no more wacky armor powers, equipment and no more sprinting. Your only armor ability are a motion tracker/flash light, energy shields, over shields and active camo. Vehicles should be simplified to mongoose, warthog/ghost, wraith/scorpion, Banshee/ Kestrel, shade turret/machine gun turret. Frag and Plasma grenades. WE NEED TO GO BACK TO A MORE SIMPLIFIED SANDBOX
Never gunna happen. For 1 343 isn’t capable at all whatsoever period….. For 2 halo 3 on mcc could stand the test of time with mods on Xbox but that still hasn’t happened….
People dont realise that population is a thing. We need new classic experiences to keep people interested. Halo 2 Anniversary is the closest we have come to a modern classic Halo game and while it has a LOAD of flaws, I really enjoyed it for what it was as its own thing. MCC's population is slowly dwindling, especially now updates are largely over... Halo needs a booster shot of new players. The hype around Halo on PC shows there is demand for Classic Halo if its done right and not riddled with bugs and issues.
anyone else feel like the next halo game should be something completely different?, id much much prefer a spin off game then a regular mainline halo atp, im acc tired of playing of multiplayer pvp lmao, id LOVE a pve game (think like a flood horror game, or something like helldivers) that you can play with your friends, one day
If the community wants a classic Halo game the community will have to develop it on their own. Microsoft has made their decision and stuck to it. The discourse over classic Halo vs post-classic Halo has been happening for over a decade at this point. How many videos, podcasts, and forum posts about how sprint doesn't belong in Halo will the community make before we accept that a new classic styled Halo game just isn't coming. It's not going to happen. These sort of videos aren't productive anymore. 343 and Microsoft have listened and made the decision to not make these types of games. We are going to have to turn to the community, support games like Splitgate, and try to cultivate and crowd fund something out of the indie game development scene. Classic Halo isn't coming. Accept that or spend your life making the same complaints we've been making since 2010.
Solid video but i do wanna offer a counter argument.I genuinely don't think a classic halo game would survive if even a modern one can't. 1) gaming trends. In the current landscape of arena shooters a classic halo would really only appeal to those that are older and played classic halo. The problem with this is that the amount of halo OGs are dwindling as they get older so the game would be a flop in the mainstream which would lead to a death more than likely worse than Infinites 2) repetitiveness. The game would get repetitive very quickly with the classic feel. Even though the classic halo feel is great at least imo it gets stale very quickly with the lack of ways to move around the map as well as the basic sandbox. It really limits your potential as a player on the map. 3. The times have changed. No matter what they do halo will never come close to what it used to do numerically and that's okay. Games aren't meant to be popular forever and halo had a very long run but simply times have changed and people are and have been moving on to different and newer things. This is the exact reason why they are trying to evolve but it's not working so it honestly might be time to pull the plug for good
Something that bothers me is the omission of Halo Reach when talking about the "classic" Halo games. The implementation of armour abilities in reach was poor and did undermine the gameflow of Reach, however Halo Reach still played more like Halo 3 then it did Halo 4 or 5 and It played more similarly to 3 than Infinite does; it didn't "drastically" change the way Halo plays. Halo Infinite has more in common with Halo 5 then it does 3 or Reach because it doesn't focus on the same skillset that the Bungie games did. Reach wasn't a twitch based shooter the way 343's games are, positioning was still king with power-weapons that could rapidly change the game state which primarily meant a change in map control.
343is games aren’t twitch shooters LOL. And he’s right not to include reach bc it’s a terrible halo game that was the beginning of the end. It was just not as bad as 5 for instance.
@@akaneki7234 what “point” Reach DID drastically change things. Just bc it wasn’t as drastic as for instance 5 doesn’t mean we should cut it slack or include it in classic halo. It’s not LOL And ur just wrong when u say that 343is games are “twitch shooters.” So what point buddy?
@@anonymous17283 My point was how Reach still shared the same design philosophy as Halo 2 and 3. Halo Reach was still all about Power Positions controlling sight-lines, and Power Weapons being the cause for big swings in game state. Engagements were predictable the same way they were in previous titles, Reach had the same gameplay philosophy as 3 the problem was that the sandbox undermined that loop. Suddenly open map design with strong power position and points of interest didn't work because the primary utility weapon (DMR) was a laser beam at mid-long range in a way that the BR never was. That was made worse by the fact that maps had to be elongated to accommodate sprint. Then those predictable engagements had their integrity compromised by other abilities like armour-lock, evade and sprint, but the nature of engagements themselves didn't change; you just had to deal with the "FFS!" frustration of those get outta jail free cards. But Success in Reach was still largely determined by the mental skill of Halo's Game-flow. Btw when I say "predictable engagement" that's not a negative, I mean that it was rare in the classic (or Bungie Era) Halo's for the player to not know they were about to enter a fight and it's variables like knowing based on location what weapons you were likely to contend with or fight over. Also there was predictability in movement since the strafe was slow/momentum based so projectile weapons still had a place. With 343i's games, the reason I call them twitch shooters is because in 4,5 and Infinite; the only skills that really matter are reaction speed and accuracy. While in Reach, the design was undermined by sandbox variables like sprint, not everyone had sprint, so you didn't always have to deal with someone suddenly changing movement speed in a gunfight. Then in Halo 4 Everyone had sprint, so by default you always had to deal with two different movement speeds taking away that predictability, then even worse three, because some people had evade on top of sprint. Then some players had unlimited sprint, some players had literal wall hacks, AND you had no idea if someone had a one shot kill in their back-pocket with the bolt shot. So it was impossible to have predictable engagements through base mechanics so 343i instead tried to add predictability, controlling engagements by forcing everyone into cramped corridors that had no interaction with the rest of the map and so now in the 343i era there is no such thing as power positions or map control because there's no variety of sight lines and anyone can call a requisition to get power weapons that don't even spawn on the map. Now players only option to run around till they find someone, at which point the ONLY thing that matters is reaction speed and accuracy, there is no space for mental skill left because there are no predictable variables in your engagements. You can switch out the load out section for movement in H5 and Infinite because they have the exact same effect on game flow. That was really long-winded but I hope that clears up my point for why Reach was still a "classic" Halo game from a design perspective, it was just filled with some bad decisions. Where as the 343i era titles don't even really resemble Halo games anymore. It's also occurred to me that you may not even disagree with me and that this is just a semantics issue where I'm just using classic as an identifier for the Bungie Era, where as you maybe reading it as an indicator of quality... I'm not giving it "Slack" because it's not as bad as H5, I'm trying to illustrate that these games have nothing in common.
@@akaneki7234 Reach still isn’t classic. engagements in Reach are actually pretty unpredictable. You think it’s clear to engage two people. BOOM suddenly he armor locks and his teammate engages you. THEN BOOM you get him absolute then he armor locks. And then his third teammate engages you right after. You get him absolute and he runs away with sprint. And then of course you have the Jetpack kids who could just swoop in and interrupt engagements that take place on higher elevations at the press of a button. I’m glad you mentioned these cheap abilities, because they made the game significantly easier for worse players to thrive in. The nature of the engagements themselves definitely did change. I mean you just said they had their integrity compromised. How can you backtrack a sentence later and say that it was still all good? It wasn’t. In every gunfight in Reach you’d have to have in the back of your mind that your opponent could just Armor Lock out of the fight and that his buddy would come to assist. Or maybe he’ll just sprint away. You don’t even know which one he’ll do because the indicator for abilities is on the back of the Spartan. If anything, at least 343i games afford you the luxury of knowing that everyone has sprint and thus it is actually more predictable in that sense. As for power positions and map control, that’s definitely still a thing in 343i halo. Power weapons were only trivial in H4 simply because of ordnance. Similar to Reach with MLG settings, if you’re playing 4 with Legendary Slayer settings the importance of power weaponry remains. And 5 and Infinite by default have huge importance on power weapons and power positions. This idea that you can only run around and shoot in 5 and 6 just isn’t true and if you’ve ever seen Diamond or Onyx gameplay in either of those games, you’d see how bad of an idea playing like you’re Rambo is. 4,5,6 are still not Twitch shooters by the way. Idk what to call 4 but 5 and 6 are just arena shooters. It isn’t just reaction time and accuracy that’s tested in those games. Thats just wrong idk what to tell you. Keep in mind that I don’t even particularly like the 343i games too much. But I’m just a fair person when it comes to criticism.
I'm more concerned about modern gamers. They're either lazy or have the attention span of a goldfish only being interested in fast paced one-and-done games. When Valorant released, it got major backlash for it being too slow and clunky despite the mechanics being inspired by Counter-Strike, arguably the most popular and successful tactical shooter to date. A game like Halo kind of falls under the slow and clunky category. We classic Halo fans might find a new classic Halo refreshing, but I'm betting that newer gamers would call it a snooze fest, and there are a lot more new gamers thanks to 2020.
Little Timmy just wants to spray and pray his machine gun, he thinks the BR is “boring” and “stinky.” 🥳🎉 These “halo” fans that started with reach through 5 will never understand. We don’t want space CoD spray and pray bs we want a game that rewards aiming. Hell I remember that in that LazyPurple dude’s video about Team Fortress 2 being a masterpiece, single shot weapons helped out with TF2’s identity, sure Pyro and Heavy exist but the majority of classes don’t use autos.
Perhaps not. Perhaps it only stifles innovation to try to uphold the past; especially if what you're doing is trying to uphold a legacy that you never created. What I'm suggesting is that maybe it is time for the Halo franchise to sleep for awhile and let 343i make THEIR OWN game. They've been shackled to the Halo legacy and perhaps that's the root problem.
I enjoyed infinites campaign but dear lord does it get boring after awhile. Even when forge ai came out, I lost interest in the halo series entirely. I’m not sure I could ever get back into it. 343 has shown me they are a shady company who bends the knee Microsoft.
10:00 you cant even make the argument that the lack of people playing mcc proves a lack of interest in classic halo because once again at the time of this comment mcc on steam has more concurrent players than halo infinite lmao so I guess there's also a lack of interest in modern halo as well. 343 is a joke
A classic game would not work, although Halo still has its old fans, now there are new players and they do not look for old things based on very slow gameplay to which the new ones They are not used to it, also the classic game modes are not as innovative, although the game would be successful with its old fan base, the game would not grow up And it would stagnate and most likely even its many fans would leave the game. For new games with innovative things, so you are left with a classic game that would no longer work todayq I know that Halo is very famous and even though it is classic it will have many players but that does not mean that the game is a success What Halo needs are new players and growing as a community, not stagnating We cannot stop forever to say that classic was better because eras change and you and I are already old even if it hurts, those who will lead the future of the franchise are Modern audiences so there must be a balance to keep the game going and at the same time not focus on old people. No matter how much I teach my son Halo, his friends don't get their attention like other games did, we must accept and stop being so stubborn.
you are wrong because they tried to appeal to other audiences with infinite and halo 5 and they failed. There is a reason nobody cares Halo anymore and its because they went away from what made it unique.
@@Ralphunreal They failed because their games are poorly made, not because they focus on modern audiences, remove abilities, I wouldn't think Halo would be better, it would just make it slower and more classic, and it could even have the same Bad creation and direction and making a classic but equally broken game
The new “fans” are just your typical reddit millennial/zoomer slop consumers. They aren’t brand loyal and they don’t even support the game monetarily they just use bots to get likes on their tweets to boost their popularity. The real Halo fans would support a new Halo game that didn’t suck
It's too early to say that, really. Halo CE, 2 and 3 were loved despite some errors, glitches and design that now seems primitive due to advances in technology. For instance: weapon variety, how many of them are practical across the maps, hit registration. All of these are improvements that many who liked and many who still play these games would like to see for a future Halo. But when yet another game releases that's ability-focused and doesn't even have non-ability playlists for major modes (Slayer, TS, CTF, BTB, etc. despite years of demand), a game where expected features like Forge, File Share, Customs, Theater, Firefight, Infection, Invasion and so on are absent or not working, as well as certain art/musical/story/character themes are wrong or missing in campaign, this does not help retain existing Halo fans and unsurprisingly this doesn't encourage new people to stick around either. Some people didn't even give Halo a try until Anniversary versions came out, not due to gameplay, but because they thought the original graphics seemed too old. So all it took was a new coat of paint to get many interested. And when the game actually feels unique instead of like CoD but with energy shields and an arsenal where most weapons can't head-shot, it's more worthwhile for old and new players to stick around. Then they can feel they're playing a Halo game and not just a trend-chasing imitation of another game. And again: 343 can just have playlists with non-ability gameplay AND adjusted playlists with abilities (it's what the Reach team should've done and 343 all the more so with each passing game). Is 343 incapable on a technical level? I don't think so. It's more about the wrong priorities. They launch without expected modes that help retain players or the modes are there but downgraded/broken, yet 343 found the time to: make Spartan Ops in 4, Warzone in 5, "open world" in Infinite. None of those should've been higher priorities than the modes listed earlier. New, untested ideas that soak up resources should be the stuff that comes after launch, not the stuff that's already proven itself, helped build Halo's audience prior to 343's first game, and definitely help retain players. Even if Halo *must* have abilities (it does not and it's not the only FPS without a "move forward faster and stop shooting" button) the superior option to any Armor/Spartan ability is a speed-boost that works in every direction. This is more fair for when a CQC user is running at someone trying to maintain distance while firing, it is more fair for attackers vs defenders modes, it allows people to move backwards while firing instead of one turning away to try and run and the other having to stop firing to not fall behind, it would actually synergize with strafing as people turn the speed-boost on and off mid-strafe and much more. However, the trade-off would be that the spread/recoil/wobble of the crosshair or some combination of the three depending on weapon would be present. Trading speed for accuracy, rather than speed for shooting at all. That's much more fitting for Halo which before abilities let people shoot while moving at top speed.
Nah, infinite made an almost perfect middle ground for the gameplay. Plus classic based gameplay fans are the minority now so point in catering to that classic gameplay.
Nah. Halo Infinite tried to be classic Halo and it crashed like the Hindenburg. I'd rather 343 stop trying to cater to toxic Halo fans and just get creative.
it crashed because it was released with ZERO CONTENT ZERO CUSTOMIZATION and a GREEDY LIVE SERVICE MODEL, the gameplay wasnt the problem, like literally everyone praises the gameplay,what are you talking about?
@@megaman37456 It wasnt functional because of their bad online system,it was unplayable. that has nothing to do with the way gameplay works. sometimes it would work most of the time it wouldnt(online). Im not saying every aspect of is good but it is way superior to h5 gameplay. just by going to the campaing you can tell it is much better than h5's. and I like h5 gameplay, but I think infinite's is better becauseit is like a combination of classic halo and new halo.
Infinite didn't do it right. A failed test can have right answers, or one can fail to cook a meal all the way through, Infinite was sub-par. Infinite came with new mistakes that even 4 and 5 didn't have despite doing some things better than them. Abilities in core gameplay is not the classic gameplay Halo's audience was built on. Criticism that Reach got, Bungie's final farewell video admitting abilities fundamentally changed the game, and of course what some of those changes actually are all point to that: a) Players can no longer move at top speed _while_ firing. It causes more instances of someone with a CQC weapon having an advantage over people moving backwards as they can speed up but the other can't while firing. Or just being easier to run up on someone and melee. b) Players are more likely to turn and run and to match speed the person chasing must sprint and stop firing. So now you have less moving battles. This can snowball into encountering an ally of the person being chased. The player must stop to fire at the new opponent while the initial target can maintain top speed and flee. c) Players are firing at each other and see a third player approaching on radar. They can't move away at top speed while firing. Third-partying has become easier as just turning and running is usually not practical and will lead to being shot in the back. That's just Sprint. Other Armor/Spartan abilities add their own substantial changes to the gameplay. An audience was built on one kind of gameplay and suddenly a bunch of stuff has become easier or harder simply due to abilities. Just like changing the formula of many things it won't have the same results as the original. Even if someone tries to dismiss them as minor, they are frequently encountered in gameplay and the dissatisfaction builds up. But the solution isn't even to remove abilities. They're great for some modes (like Invasion) and all sorts of Customs. They just need to be in their own playlists alongside ones without abilities. The usual: Slayer, CTF, BTB, etc. It's truly that simple, especially considering that there are playlists for way wilder modes and even adjusting maps is nothing new. 5 actually introduced a non-ability playlist way late into its life and it saw play despite the poor player retention that resulted from earlier mistakes at and after its launch.
@@linusnottech Is this not what you are wishing for? A purist remaking of classic Halo titles with no editing done to gameplay or the elements that affect gameplay? It is inarguable, the legacy Halo fans would be pleased if 343i perfectly replicated Halo 3 and made zero changes; but what the argument closes over is *there aren't many legacy Halo fans left* anymore and those people often have moved on from gaming. They're in their middle-age phase and they have families/careers/businesses, etc. The new casual audience are Fortnite players with short attention spans and crave gratifying gameplay with minimal effort or skill required. So ultimately, a Classic Purist Halo game would score well within the existing Halo community, but would be a misfire to the wider gaming market. How many legacy Halo fans are left after a decade of mismanagement by 343i? A million, at best? Microsoft has far higher expectations.
@@namelessstranger1270 I don't see alot of people that want a new halo game but I see alot of people that want new fps games. PVP, PVE it doesn't matter.
@@namelessstranger1270 Perfectly replicated Halo 3 would involve a weapon balance and hit registration issues that even people who hold 3 as their favorite would rather see fixed. Never mind that there are many things you can add to a new Halo even if it's modeled after 3. Why wouldn't you launch with Firefight? Why wouldn't you launch with the best Forge, File Share, Theater and Customs options yet? Even ability vs non-ability is no hindrance as you can simply stuff abilities in alternative playlists. Even adjusting maps for different rules is nothing new to Halo. Then there's Invasion which actually benefits thematically from using abilities to make Spartans and Elites feel different. But a lot of the stuff just mentioned is either absent in 343-era games or if it's there it's broken at launch or is added way after launch and many new people they could have retained have left. Halo has gas in the tank but someone in a position of leadership at Microsoft/343 keeps bogging the devs down with strange mandates to ignore and replace things that Halo's audience was built on. Never mind stuff like Metroid and RE4 remakes showing people can greatly enjoy old things mostly coming back, with some improvements. There was criticism over some unnecessary changes but they were still 80-90% faithful to what the originals were about. The truest test for Halo is to actually launch a game with non-ability gameplay, clones of those modes/playlists with abilities, Customs, Forge, File Share, Invasion, Firefight, Infection, Theater and other expected pre-343 multiplayer features (and they need to actually work at launch - many 343-era games launched with stuff broken), as well as environment variety and proper art/audio/music/characterization in campaign. "Proper" even has a lot of flexbility given how Halo Wars and to a lesser extent Reach and ODST, showed the way to bend what's expected from Halo without going way too far. This is an approach a 343 title has yet take. They always have pieces of it, but never all of it present and working at launch.
@@Krampus6-1-6 The problem in that statement is that "alot" is actually a small fraction of the audience-size Microsoft is aiming for. If they made another Halo and sold it for $60, 100k units sold wouldn't be enough to justify the budget it'd take to develop another Halo title, not even 900k units sold either. The market has changed, the waters are different now and Halo cannot prosper back to it's peak.
Time for another GOOD Halo game? Absolutely. 14-17 years is wayy too long of a wait.
10+ years of 343-era and not a single one launched with these present and working at launch: Forge, File Share, Theater, Firefight, Customs, Infection, campaign environment variety, appropriate characterization/audio/music/art style. It's a shame and was avoidable as well. Spartan Ops, Warzone and "open world" are just some of the big time sinks that never should've taken priority.
What's more: why are there still not playlists for non-ability and ability gameplay? It's an easy solution that doesn't involve choosing one or the other. But frankly, "faster Halo" should have always been an all-directions speed-boost that takes a toll on accuracy via wobble, spread, recoil, etc. Way more fitting for Halo than choosing between moving forward faster or firing.
Then there are all the Halo Wars vehicles that haven't made it into so much as customs. People want to see Halo advance as Halo, not be a mish-mash of trend-chasing attempts born from not understanding why trends/mechanics work in other IP. Tap into Halo's existing potential that's been ignored for way too long now.
One wouldn't even end up with Halo ___ again if you tried considering differences in code, online performance, campaign plot and more that would naturally arise. Some still like to play older games in spite of certain downsides, but they would want a new game that addresses those actual issues (hitreg is not a matter of preference after all).
Touching on Reach, detail have come out since it released that 343 should definitely be aware of if a fan can be. Even Marcus, who having become creative director has more reason than anyone to still think it's "all of the right things put together", thinks non-ability gameplay has aged better: th-cam.com/video/JfJCQbJA3v0/w-d-xo.html
Bungie's own farewell video touches on how abilities fundamentally change the way the game is played: th-cam.com/video/OtG6--4r_qk/w-d-xo.html So if you add that to major changes in art, music and characterization, plus increasing the number of abilities people spawn with, plus launch new Halo titles with major features missing/broken, no wonder people stick around much less than they used to.
And if that all weren't enough, lead gameplay designers Max and Jaime are on record for keeping sprint alone out of the games when they had fuller say. If you check imdb, mobygames and halopedia you'll notice Jaime is a major designer or even lead designer for some Halo games, but not for Reach. This was one of many position changes that happened during Reach (along with Marcus going from beautiful art to creative director), while Jaime was having much of his attention pulled by Destiny development. This all also adds up with his statement that a lot of additions to Reach were things he had denied previously: twitter.com/32nds/status/1366498761707458561
But just based on how many interactions change due to abilities, someone working in games for a living should've seen errors made in a spin-off should not have continued in 4, 5 or Infinite, except as playlists on the side. Abilities are great for customs too. Reach simply and rather obviously was not a model to follow. That earlier bit about trading accuracy for speed? I don't believe it's superior to non-ability Halo, simply more fitting for Halo than Armor/Spartan abilities.
There is still a significant number of people who yearn for a classic halo type shooter
That era is over
@@matthewdanahy9411why do you write this comment? why watch this video if you just dismiss the topic? there are people who still want new versions of the classic experience, is that so hard to believe?
@ethab57 it's not going to be profitable and it's not realistic to think it's going to happen
And it's definitely not what 343 is into
@@ethab57It's very very few that do. That era really is over with whether you want to except it or not
@@NITROOOO_YOhow can you be so sure? Anytime there is news about halo, there is a massive buzz of people who are are interested, because they still want that experience to be revitilized.
I like how on Twitter there’s a whole argument between Halo fans and the new 343 tourists. And the tourists are losing
Eee the delusion here.
@@uh_ant ukraine flag Rookie pfp. You reek of reddit 🤢
@@smoldoggy1005 what... where is this Ukraine flag?💀 And nah don't have it. But classic gameplay fellas are the minority bud.
definitely not the minority lol. 8/10 halo fans prefer the old games as a whole forsure@@uh_ant
@@uh_ant your delusional majority of halo fans prefer Halo CE and 3 but everybody doesmif you include Halo reach
Counter Strike 2 is proof you can make a game similar to a classic and succeed. CS2 isn't that different than the original CS from more than 20 years ago and nearly 1 million are playing it right now.
For CS, all you need is new weapons, balance tweaks, newer graphics, updated mechanics (not always new but updated, see the smoke grenade physics), new maps, and voila.
CS is literally better then halo and it aged way better then halo did
I am new to halo and the combat in that game is frustrating as hell literally having the default weapons in halo suck compared to the special weapons and the special weapons are so weird to play with the combat in halo sucks compared to CS
Oh boy, this is not a good example. CS2 is just CSGO remastered with a few tweaks. The only reason why it's a massive hit is because all CSGO players were forced to convert since CS2 completely replaced CSGO. If anything, the player count is slowly dropping because of Valve's lack of communication and the ongoing cheater fest going on. Counter-Strike as a brand will always do fine due to its legacy and reputation, but CS2 is not doing well for its standards.
Plus, CSGO is popular worldwide, so naturally there are going to be a lot of consistent players. Halo is mainly a North American thing as Halo was exclusive to consoles for most of its existence, so player count will most likely be restricted to regions that have a large console player base (mostly North America).
@@armaantoor6773 If you can play CS, you should have no problem learning the combat in Halo. Are you talking about multiplayer or campaign?
@@xx_amongus_xx6987 I play multiplayer tbh splitgate has better combat then halo the movement and what not is wayyy better
“Classic Halo game”
You mean a normal Halo game, that doesn’t chase trends and try to fix what isn’t broken?
The fact the you even have to explain what 'classic Halo' is to the devs and/or their fanbase is an example of how over Halo as a series really is..
Only hope I see would be an indie dev or AA studio making a game that plays just like Halos 2-3 like what Palword is to Pokémon.
Call it Orbital.
I think it’s genuinely time to give the classic movement a new game
We’ve had abilities and advanced movement now since Reach, 14 years ago, and it’s been 17 since Halo 3
There is nothing on the Market like a classic Halo, if it’s good, it’ll probably do pretty well
I think if a new classic Halo game were to come out I think it would be successful just not as successful as Halo 3. But perhaps over time that could change.
Exactly. Halo 3's success didn't just happen overnight. CE and 2 were key factors in 3 succeeding as much as it did. If a modern classic Halo game is to succeed today, the franchise needs to re-establish the original gameplay formula and then innovate off of it instead of changing the identity with each new title.
Counter strike has been the same game and look how many people play it everyday. Halo just needs to stop segmenting the player base and changing halo with every installment. They should have tried new ideas with spinoff games or game modes and not with the main game.
MCC is still busted. If it wasn’t, my friends and I would still be playing Halo regularly.
I’ve said this story several times, but it still applies. Months ago, I tried to organize a game night with friends where we all got on and played MCC together.
Every time we tried to get through matchmaking, one of us would lag out, and get quit banned every time. After 3 different nights of trying to do this, we just abandoned it and started playing Minecraft.
No one has the patience to deal with 343’s incompetence, least of all me. If we could play 360 era H3, we would, but we can’t.
And they did the same for Halo Reach as well, the way this works is if you want to play online you have to join someone who's hosting a matchmaking lobby, that person can host games because he/she has a (JTAG'd/RGH'd/modded Xbox 360.)
Yes
I was just thinking this today. I played mcc for the first time in a while and thought to myself how do these people not get tired of using battle rifles over and over again. I love halo 2 but need something with more variety
halo 2 had playlist without battle rifle and Halo 3 had even more variety.
@@Ralphunreal I understand that. However when you’ve been playing the same game for 20 years maybe a new version with the same style would be nice
The BR and precision weapons in general are satisfying weapons as they reward players for having a good combination of precision, tracking, timing, and game mechanics. If you can get either a perfect kill or a good nade with a headshot, you'll feel a small dopamine rush. Compare that to something like the AR where you just hold down the trigger and pray enough bullets hit the player.
@@CR0WYTonce again, I’ve used the BR since I preordered the game when it first came out. Sorry I’d like something new too
@@stark_outdoorsuse the Carbine or dmr (bandit, whatever) 🥳🎉
fact that there are so many classic halo projects atm, I think there are 4 atm.
Should tell you enough.
Haven’t heard much from I01 and Contingency for a while
Even Bungie said Reach was a spinoff and that's why they were experimenting with things like armour abilities, loadouts, etc, implying that HCE-3 was the true formula for Halo. 343i obviously didn't get this or didn't want to as they based their following games off Reach and not the trilogy.
Barely based it off reach lol.
You are incorrect, the underlying core formula for Halo's gameplay is and always has been the Golden Triangle (Guns, Grenades, Melee). Whether you're playing BTB on H2 or ODST Firefight; the gameplay is built upon the foundation formula of the Golden Triangle. Not to mention, CE/H2/H3 all play VERY differently from each other and it's false to blend all their respective gameplays together to form a ruleset.
The way you think 343i was specifically inspired by Reach; but they've failed to produce a game in the last 13+ years that even begins to match the content offering of Reach at launch is hilarious.
@@namelessstranger1270 Then why did 4 and 5 have armour abilities and sprint if the trilogy didn't? You are correct that the golden triangle is Halo's formula but these additions just dilute it. Being able to shoot, grenade and melee while moving in all directions made for a more fluid and pure experience. Also, 343i not being able to meet content expectations has nothing to do with basing it off Reach, just shows their incompetentence when the foundations were already laid. Not sure why that's worth mentioning when we're discussing gameplay anyway.
I wish 343 and industry could make fewer mistakes, but I know in todays gaming world it'll never happen. 😥
At this point after halo infinite the franchise is finished. It was 343s last chance and they blew it its too late everyone moved on
I hate to say your right, but I still want a good Halo game. If Halo 7 doesn't meet expectations I'm goona cry.
@@KhaotickChrisShow in this day in age, I don’t trust any AAA studio to have their hands on Halo.
Halo 5 was when the franchise was considered doomed (Halo 4 wasn't recieved well by a majority) , but everybody still gave infinite a chance. Halo lives in peoples hearts, it will never die due to that reason alone. If they came out with a great Halo game it would be succesful.
Truth be told in terms of gameplay I think 343 gave us the best of both worlds both new and old in Halo Infinite it's just the game didn't launch with as many maps and modes etc which killed a lot of the motivation that people had to enjoy the game.
halo infante didn't fail just because of limited game modes and maps. There is a plethora of reasons why it failed. Free-to-play model, heavy microtransactions, lack luster campaign with NO SPLIT SCREEN (which they have promised would be in the game), shitty and boring weapon sandbox that caters too much to the competitive side. God awful vehicle sandbox, vehicles are mad out of Styrofoam. Equipment was a nice return but 343i failed to understand what made them great. The aiming is broken (which is detrimental for a FIRST PERSON SHOOTER). And the development hell which made a lot of leads leave, resulting in an unfocused vision and a $5 million conflated budget. This scratches the surface to the failure of halo infante.
@@rick14377 I agree and I didn't forget about all those things I just didn't mention them all.
Halo mcc is not the same as reach or 3 on the 360
Solid video, agreed with everything. Keep it up
Great video. It’s truly frustrating to deal with people who provide weak arguments.
A true classic halo game, straight up? No compromises nor bad middle grounds? No noob mechanics? As long as it has a high ratio of Ranked:Social playlists, then I could see that happening.
maybe i would want to play MCC if i didnt have to drop 25-30 a game due to the SBMM. i get timmy no hands on my team.
The question is essentially "is 343 and microsoft done being too woke to release a product that consumers actually want and have supported up until they decided that was too good?"
The writing has always been the issue for me, especially with the retcons and Infinite didn’t change my opinion that 343 just cant get it right. Nothing but sappy emotional key-jangling and plotholes.
1:02 and now there’s insignia that revive Xbox live for the original Xbox (if you heard about halo 2 being revived for online)
Yeah I saw that! I’m currently working on setting up Insignia on my Xbox so that I can play it.
@@popq2nice did you bought an original Xbox?
@@iApex54 I did, but the funny thing is that I bought this Xbox about 2yrs ago and never even took it out of the box lol so I hope it works
imagine wanting a new game in the series you love without wanting it to drastically alter its gameplay 😮😮😮😮😮😮😮
If you like the advanced movement so much why don’t you just play Halo 5 and never want a new game ever again for the rest of your life :)
See how silly that sounds?
Remake halo 3
There's a good reason MCC at near all times of the day is always ahead of infinite's player count.
That's only on Steam
Use brain
And? We don't have the numbers for MCC on console who's to say it isn't ahead on there too. @@joerowland9128
@@joerowland9128 You think it would be any different on consoles? You should use your brain first lol
@@xx_amongus_xx6987You should use your brain LMAO
Halo Infinite on Xbox has 15 K players
Halo MCC on Xbox has 8 K players
@@joerowland9128 You realize how dumb of an argument it is to try and defend Halo Infinite and compare it to 10+ year old games? That is the sad state 343i fanboys like you find yourselves in.
Try comparing Halo Infinite numbers to the original player bases for each game that lasted a long time. You think Halo Infinite having 15 k players means anything? Try having 11 MILLION players. That was Halo 3's player count and was not even the largest player base Bungie had. Not to mention this was in 2009 when not as many people played games as they did now.
Don't even bother with these low effort arguments.
you know this gave me thought that the issue with halo (plus all the dumb desitions of 343) its that it became like wow, a seasonal bs, like cod in a way jumping over and over and trying to be the next big thing in halo, trying to catch the same lighint in another bottle, when csgo just improve and made more money that way that releasing new things that are so different from what OG halo build in 3 entries. you know like "going back to square one" willingly when csgo were in square 2000 ahead of halo
Biggest mistake ever for 343 was shutting down legacy halo servers since MCC is still bugged to this day
That’s a reach n I despise 343……
@@ShotzzillaThis guy is delusional
I loved classic and OG 360 halos
But you could only find matches in team slayer
And nobody is going to play them again
Like I can't played on 30 FPS and 70 FOV anymore
MCC keeps these game modernised
Microsoft should give the OG Halo Bungie devs joe Staten, Jason Jones, Marcus Lehto, and Marty O'Donnell the keys to Halo with a new studio: 117 Games. Every old & new fan would be happy and excited for that game. halo 3 is still a masterpiece and the best halo ever made.
The budget to build the game needs to DECREASE. If you have less money then you will have to spend more time on the basics.
Halo needs to be given to a indie studio
The answer is yes. It's been time since Reach launched.
People seem to forget that Reach was the downfall of halo.
@@linusnottechhow was halo reach the downfall of halo
@@bingisboyHalo Reach introduced Sprint and Armour abilities which divided the halo fan base
So now if a halo game has sprint
A bunch of halo fans won't play it
The same if a halo game hasn't got Sprint
It's pretty obvious that Reach was the downfall
@@joerowland9128 That is ridiculous. First of all, sprint *is* an armor ability (atleast in halo reach). Second, I highly doubt many of the new Halo fans (fans from Halo Reach onwards) wouldn’t play a new Halo game because it doesn’t have sprint. To suggest that this one element of gameplay in one single game is “the downfall of Halo” completely ignores the tons and tons of issues that actually led to Halo losing it’s original audience and become less acclaimed. Yes, armor abilities fractured the original community in 2010 to a certain extent. That is nothing compared to what Halo 4 and 5 did. Halo Reach was still a popular game years after 2010. Halo 4 was dead within like a year. It wasn’t Reach that caused the downfall.
@@bingisboy Armor abilities was literally the downfall of Halo. Halo was always about equal starts until Reach decided to change that, and then Halo 4 followed in its footsteps with more loadouts. Of course Halo 4's downfall was its own doing and 343i's fault, but Bungie was starting to head in the wrong direction. If Halo 4 and 5 weren't so bad, people would not look at Reach as fondly.
Fair points, good editing. Not sure if you're on other platforms, but you've got the formula down here. Maybe post a bit more if possible, 9/10 vid
Man I wish. Like if they went back the fundamentals of Halo and continued off gameplay wise from Halo 3 they could really have a good halo. No, I'm not saying Halo 3.5 like all the new fans who never played the classics love to tout. I'm talking like Halo 2 was different (but good) compared to Halo CE and Halo 3 was different (and good) compared to Halo 2.
Sadly I just don't know if modern gaming and modern gamers would do a classic halo. They are so obsessed with crap like 'sprint' which even in infinite doesn't serve that great a purpose but zoomies need to feel like they are going fast 24/7 because they can't take a second and slow down to play a chess game like Halo used to be. MCC still holds a decent population but I don't think we'll ever get another classic style Halo as much as its all I care for really.
I mean Call of Duty pretty much copy and pasted its mechanics with each game with very little innovation after Modern Warfare. And it turned into a multimillion gaming franchise. So I don't know why people want each new Halo game to be fully different from the previous one.
Yes we want some innovation but not a completely different franchise from what it started.
Halo does not need a battle pass, battle royale, armor cores, etc. halo needs to be left as Halo, a game meant to play and enjoy as a complete product on launch, with the staples that make Halo Halo. Trying to make something that is inherently not Halo fit into a Halo game is just asking to have a lesser version of something. Streamers may think trend chasing is the only way to make a game, but it’s a good idea to remind yourself that their opinions are irrelevant to what makes a good game.
Solid video
If people argue to play H2A... I don't think they themselves have even played it lmao.
Halo needs to go back to its simplest form, back to square one, no more wacky armor powers, equipment and no more sprinting. Your only armor ability are a motion tracker/flash light, energy shields, over shields and active camo. Vehicles should be simplified to mongoose, warthog/ghost, wraith/scorpion, Banshee/ Kestrel, shade turret/machine gun turret. Frag and Plasma grenades.
WE NEED TO GO BACK TO A MORE SIMPLIFIED SANDBOX
Never gunna happen. For 1 343 isn’t capable at all whatsoever period….. For 2 halo 3 on mcc could stand the test of time with mods on Xbox but that still hasn’t happened….
People dont realise that population is a thing. We need new classic experiences to keep people interested. Halo 2 Anniversary is the closest we have come to a modern classic Halo game and while it has a LOAD of flaws, I really enjoyed it for what it was as its own thing.
MCC's population is slowly dwindling, especially now updates are largely over... Halo needs a booster shot of new players. The hype around Halo on PC shows there is demand for Classic Halo if its done right and not riddled with bugs and issues.
Where are you my man? I hope you're keeping well
The classic games on MCC don't even play anywhere close to the same as the original releases, a nyway.
Halo Online could have been something but microsoft blew it
anyone else feel like the next halo game should be something completely different?, id much much prefer a spin off game then a regular mainline halo atp, im acc tired of playing of multiplayer pvp lmao, id LOVE a pve game (think like a flood horror game, or something like helldivers) that you can play with your friends,
one day
Is It Time For Halo Fans To Accept Halo Is Spiritually Dead?
Halo will never die
Keep saying in dead as you halo haters have done since 2011
If the community wants a classic Halo game the community will have to develop it on their own. Microsoft has made their decision and stuck to it. The discourse over classic Halo vs post-classic Halo has been happening for over a decade at this point. How many videos, podcasts, and forum posts about how sprint doesn't belong in Halo will the community make before we accept that a new classic styled Halo game just isn't coming. It's not going to happen. These sort of videos aren't productive anymore. 343 and Microsoft have listened and made the decision to not make these types of games. We are going to have to turn to the community, support games like Splitgate, and try to cultivate and crowd fund something out of the indie game development scene. Classic Halo isn't coming. Accept that or spend your life making the same complaints we've been making since 2010.
Infinite is as close as we are going to get most likely. I half expect the next game to be unrecognizable to a large extent.
I like the cut of your jib my guy
Solid video but i do wanna offer a counter argument.I genuinely don't think a classic halo game would survive if even a modern one can't.
1) gaming trends. In the current landscape of arena shooters a classic halo would really only appeal to those that are older and played classic halo. The problem with this is that the amount of halo OGs are dwindling as they get older so the game would be a flop in the mainstream which would lead to a death more than likely worse than Infinites
2) repetitiveness. The game would get repetitive very quickly with the classic feel. Even though the classic halo feel is great at least imo it gets stale very quickly with the lack of ways to move around the map as well as the basic sandbox. It really limits your potential as a player on the map.
3. The times have changed. No matter what they do halo will never come close to what it used to do numerically and that's okay. Games aren't meant to be popular forever and halo had a very long run but simply times have changed and people are and have been moving on to different and newer things. This is the exact reason why they are trying to evolve but it's not working so it honestly might be time to pull the plug for good
I just want halo wars 3, ODST 2, and a halo fps mmo looters shooter, like is Destiny 2 had an orgy baby with halo infinite and mass effect.
Something that bothers me is the omission of Halo Reach when talking about the "classic" Halo games. The implementation of armour abilities in reach was poor and did undermine the gameflow of Reach, however Halo Reach still played more like Halo 3 then it did Halo 4 or 5 and It played more similarly to 3 than Infinite does; it didn't "drastically" change the way Halo plays. Halo Infinite has more in common with Halo 5 then it does 3 or Reach because it doesn't focus on the same skillset that the Bungie games did.
Reach wasn't a twitch based shooter the way 343's games are, positioning was still king with power-weapons that could rapidly change the game state which primarily meant a change in map control.
343is games aren’t twitch shooters LOL. And he’s right not to include reach bc it’s a terrible halo game that was the beginning of the end. It was just not as bad as 5 for instance.
@@anonymous17283 good to know my point went over your head😊
@@akaneki7234 what “point”
Reach DID drastically change things. Just bc it wasn’t as drastic as for instance 5 doesn’t mean we should cut it slack or include it in classic halo. It’s not LOL
And ur just wrong when u say that 343is games are “twitch shooters.” So what point buddy?
@@anonymous17283 My point was how Reach still shared the same design philosophy as Halo 2 and 3. Halo Reach was still all about Power Positions controlling sight-lines, and Power Weapons being the cause for big swings in game state. Engagements were predictable the same way they were in previous titles, Reach had the same gameplay philosophy as 3 the problem was that the sandbox undermined that loop. Suddenly open map design with strong power position and points of interest didn't work because the primary utility weapon (DMR) was a laser beam at mid-long range in a way that the BR never was. That was made worse by the fact that maps had to be elongated to accommodate sprint. Then those predictable engagements had their integrity compromised by other abilities like armour-lock, evade and sprint, but the nature of engagements themselves didn't change; you just had to deal with the "FFS!" frustration of those get outta jail free cards.
But Success in Reach was still largely determined by the mental skill of Halo's Game-flow.
Btw when I say "predictable engagement" that's not a negative, I mean that it was rare in the classic (or Bungie Era) Halo's for the player to not know they were about to enter a fight and it's variables like knowing based on location what weapons you were likely to contend with or fight over. Also there was predictability in movement since the strafe was slow/momentum based so projectile weapons still had a place.
With 343i's games, the reason I call them twitch shooters is because in 4,5 and Infinite; the only skills that really matter are reaction speed and accuracy.
While in Reach, the design was undermined by sandbox variables like sprint, not everyone had sprint, so you didn't always have to deal with someone suddenly changing movement speed in a gunfight.
Then in Halo 4 Everyone had sprint, so by default you always had to deal with two different movement speeds taking away that predictability, then even worse three, because some people had evade on top of sprint. Then some players had unlimited sprint, some players had literal wall hacks, AND you had no idea if someone had a one shot kill in their back-pocket with the bolt shot. So it was impossible to have predictable engagements through base mechanics so 343i instead tried to add predictability, controlling engagements by forcing everyone into cramped corridors that had no interaction with the rest of the map and so now in the 343i era there is no such thing as power positions or map control because there's no variety of sight lines and anyone can call a requisition to get power weapons that don't even spawn on the map. Now players only option to run around till they find someone, at which point the ONLY thing that matters is reaction speed and accuracy, there is no space for mental skill left because there are no predictable variables in your engagements.
You can switch out the load out section for movement in H5 and Infinite because they have the exact same effect on game flow.
That was really long-winded but I hope that clears up my point for why Reach was still a "classic" Halo game from a design perspective, it was just filled with some bad decisions. Where as the 343i era titles don't even really resemble Halo games anymore.
It's also occurred to me that you may not even disagree with me and that this is just a semantics issue where I'm just using classic as an identifier for the Bungie Era, where as you maybe reading it as an indicator of quality...
I'm not giving it "Slack" because it's not as bad as H5, I'm trying to illustrate that these games have nothing in common.
@@akaneki7234 Reach still isn’t classic.
engagements in Reach are actually pretty unpredictable. You think it’s clear to engage two people. BOOM suddenly he armor locks and his teammate engages you. THEN BOOM you get him absolute then he armor locks. And then his third teammate engages you right after. You get him absolute and he runs away with sprint. And then of course you have the Jetpack kids who could just swoop in and interrupt engagements that take place on higher elevations at the press of a button. I’m glad you mentioned these cheap abilities, because they made the game significantly easier for worse players to thrive in. The nature of the engagements themselves definitely did change. I mean you just said they had their integrity compromised. How can you backtrack a sentence later and say that it was still all good? It wasn’t. In every gunfight in Reach you’d have to have in the back of your mind that your opponent could just Armor Lock out of the fight and that his buddy would come to assist. Or maybe he’ll just sprint away. You don’t even know which one he’ll do because the indicator for abilities is on the back of the Spartan.
If anything, at least 343i games afford you the luxury of knowing that everyone has sprint and thus it is actually more predictable in that sense.
As for power positions and map control, that’s definitely still a thing in 343i halo. Power weapons were only trivial in H4 simply because of ordnance. Similar to Reach with MLG settings, if you’re playing 4 with Legendary Slayer settings the importance of power weaponry remains. And 5 and Infinite by default have huge importance on power weapons and power positions. This idea that you can only run around and shoot in 5 and 6 just isn’t true and if you’ve ever seen Diamond or Onyx gameplay in either of those games, you’d see how bad of an idea playing like you’re Rambo is.
4,5,6 are still not Twitch shooters by the way. Idk what to call 4 but 5 and 6 are just arena shooters. It isn’t just reaction time and accuracy that’s tested in those games. Thats just wrong idk what to tell you.
Keep in mind that I don’t even particularly like the 343i games too much. But I’m just a fair person when it comes to criticism.
I'm more concerned about modern gamers. They're either lazy or have the attention span of a goldfish only being interested in fast paced one-and-done games. When Valorant released, it got major backlash for it being too slow and clunky despite the mechanics being inspired by Counter-Strike, arguably the most popular and successful tactical shooter to date. A game like Halo kind of falls under the slow and clunky category. We classic Halo fans might find a new classic Halo refreshing, but I'm betting that newer gamers would call it a snooze fest, and there are a lot more new gamers thanks to 2020.
Little Timmy just wants to spray and pray his machine gun, he thinks the BR is “boring” and “stinky.” 🥳🎉
These “halo” fans that started with reach through 5 will never understand. We don’t want space CoD spray and pray bs we want a game that rewards aiming. Hell I remember that in that LazyPurple dude’s video about Team Fortress 2 being a masterpiece, single shot weapons helped out with TF2’s identity, sure Pyro and Heavy exist but the majority of classes don’t use autos.
The problem is micro transactions and 343. I can play the original 4 the rest of my life and not get sick of it.
Perhaps not. Perhaps it only stifles innovation to try to uphold the past; especially if what you're doing is trying to uphold a legacy that you never created.
What I'm suggesting is that maybe it is time for the Halo franchise to sleep for awhile and let 343i make THEIR OWN game. They've been shackled to the Halo legacy and perhaps that's the root problem.
lol... aFPS is dead. It's never coming back. I wish I was wrong...
*laughs in classic sonic* funny thing is I think sega actually gets it whereas 343… lolno
I enjoyed infinites campaign but dear lord does it get boring after awhile. Even when forge ai came out, I lost interest in the halo series entirely. I’m not sure I could ever get back into it. 343 has shown me they are a shady company who bends the knee Microsoft.
H3A when?
2027
Hopefully never. They’ll mess it up. They’ll give us another halo 4 without sprint and armor abilities and call it H3A multiplayer
@@anonymous17283 You're just saying that for no reason
They won't mess it up
@@joerowland9128 they’ve messed literally everything else up
10:00 you cant even make the argument that the lack of people playing mcc proves a lack of interest in classic halo because once again at the time of this comment mcc on steam has more concurrent players than halo infinite lmao so I guess there's also a lack of interest in modern halo as well. 343 is a joke
Incorrect
On Xbox halo Infinite has over double the players MCC has
MCC on Xbox has 8K
Halo Infinite on Xbox has 16 K
No. I think Halo Reach was a beautiful ending. All good things must come to an end. Continuing franchises after they ended is how we got 343.
That's only for Campaign bro
Halo Reach fractured the halo community
@@joerowland9128 Yeah but I wouldn’t want any more games after Reach period. Multiplayer-only or otherwise.
next main line game NEEDS infinites movement and gameplay old halo feels slow now a days
First 😂
A classic game would not work, although Halo still has its old fans, now there are new players and they do not look for old things based on very slow gameplay to which the new ones They are not used to it, also the classic game modes are not as innovative, although the game would be successful with its old fan base, the game would not grow up And it would stagnate and most likely even its many fans would leave the game. For new games with innovative things, so you are left with a classic game that would no longer work todayq I know that Halo is very famous and even though it is classic it will have many players but that does not mean that the game is a success What Halo needs are new players and growing as a community, not stagnating We cannot stop forever to say that classic was better because eras change and you and I are already old even if it hurts, those who will lead the future of the franchise are Modern audiences so there must be a balance to keep the game going and at the same time not focus on old people. No matter how much I teach my son Halo, his friends don't get their attention like other games did, we must accept and stop being so stubborn.
you are wrong because they tried to appeal to other audiences with infinite and halo 5 and they failed. There is a reason nobody cares Halo anymore and its because they went away from what made it unique.
@@Ralphunreal They failed because their games are poorly made, not because they focus on modern audiences, remove abilities, I wouldn't think Halo would be better, it would just make it slower and more classic, and it could even have the same Bad creation and direction and making a classic but equally broken game
The new “fans” are just your typical reddit millennial/zoomer slop consumers. They aren’t brand loyal and they don’t even support the game monetarily they just use bots to get likes on their tweets to boost their popularity. The real Halo fans would support a new Halo game that didn’t suck
It's too early to say that, really. Halo CE, 2 and 3 were loved despite some errors, glitches and design that now seems primitive due to advances in technology. For instance: weapon variety, how many of them are practical across the maps, hit registration. All of these are improvements that many who liked and many who still play these games would like to see for a future Halo.
But when yet another game releases that's ability-focused and doesn't even have non-ability playlists for major modes (Slayer, TS, CTF, BTB, etc. despite years of demand), a game where expected features like Forge, File Share, Customs, Theater, Firefight, Infection, Invasion and so on are absent or not working, as well as certain art/musical/story/character themes are wrong or missing in campaign, this does not help retain existing Halo fans and unsurprisingly this doesn't encourage new people to stick around either.
Some people didn't even give Halo a try until Anniversary versions came out, not due to gameplay, but because they thought the original graphics seemed too old. So all it took was a new coat of paint to get many interested. And when the game actually feels unique instead of like CoD but with energy shields and an arsenal where most weapons can't head-shot, it's more worthwhile for old and new players to stick around. Then they can feel they're playing a Halo game and not just a trend-chasing imitation of another game.
And again: 343 can just have playlists with non-ability gameplay AND adjusted playlists with abilities (it's what the Reach team should've done and 343 all the more so with each passing game).
Is 343 incapable on a technical level? I don't think so. It's more about the wrong priorities. They launch without expected modes that help retain players or the modes are there but downgraded/broken, yet 343 found the time to: make Spartan Ops in 4, Warzone in 5, "open world" in Infinite. None of those should've been higher priorities than the modes listed earlier. New, untested ideas that soak up resources should be the stuff that comes after launch, not the stuff that's already proven itself, helped build Halo's audience prior to 343's first game, and definitely help retain players.
Even if Halo *must* have abilities (it does not and it's not the only FPS without a "move forward faster and stop shooting" button) the superior option to any Armor/Spartan ability is a speed-boost that works in every direction. This is more fair for when a CQC user is running at someone trying to maintain distance while firing, it is more fair for attackers vs defenders modes, it allows people to move backwards while firing instead of one turning away to try and run and the other having to stop firing to not fall behind, it would actually synergize with strafing as people turn the speed-boost on and off mid-strafe and much more. However, the trade-off would be that the spread/recoil/wobble of the crosshair or some combination of the three depending on weapon would be present. Trading speed for accuracy, rather than speed for shooting at all. That's much more fitting for Halo which before abilities let people shoot while moving at top speed.
@@smoldoggy1005don’t forget the twitter users, oh my god the twitter users 🥳🎉
"New classic halo game" like what?
One that retcons everything 343 ever did and builds off of 2/3/Reach
@@smoldoggy1005Not reach, just the OG trilogy.
Dudes out of his mind n I absolutely despise anything 343…..
Nah, infinite made an almost perfect middle ground for the gameplay. Plus classic based gameplay fans are the minority now so point in catering to that classic gameplay.
Nah. Halo Infinite tried to be classic Halo and it crashed like the Hindenburg. I'd rather 343 stop trying to cater to toxic Halo fans and just get creative.
it crashed because it was released with ZERO CONTENT ZERO CUSTOMIZATION and a GREEDY LIVE SERVICE MODEL, the gameplay wasnt the problem, like literally everyone praises the gameplay,what are you talking about?
@@kashaustayol5948 The gameplay was a BIG problem, it barely functioned and honestly, was a massive downgrade from Halo 5 in every conceivable way.
@@megaman37456 It wasnt functional because of their bad online system,it was unplayable. that has nothing to do with the way gameplay works. sometimes it would work most of the time it wouldnt(online). Im not saying every aspect of is good but it is way superior to h5 gameplay. just by going to the campaing you can tell it is much better than h5's. and I like h5 gameplay, but I think infinite's is better becauseit is like a combination of classic halo and new halo.
Infinite didn't do it right. A failed test can have right answers, or one can fail to cook a meal all the way through, Infinite was sub-par. Infinite came with new mistakes that even 4 and 5 didn't have despite doing some things better than them.
Abilities in core gameplay is not the classic gameplay Halo's audience was built on. Criticism that Reach got, Bungie's final farewell video admitting abilities fundamentally changed the game, and of course what some of those changes actually are all point to that:
a) Players can no longer move at top speed _while_ firing. It causes more instances of someone with a CQC weapon having an advantage over people moving backwards as they can speed up but the other can't while firing. Or just being easier to run up on someone and melee.
b) Players are more likely to turn and run and to match speed the person chasing must sprint and stop firing. So now you have less moving battles. This can snowball into encountering an ally of the person being chased. The player must stop to fire at the new opponent while the initial target can maintain top speed and flee.
c) Players are firing at each other and see a third player approaching on radar. They can't move away at top speed while firing. Third-partying has become easier as just turning and running is usually not practical and will lead to being shot in the back.
That's just Sprint. Other Armor/Spartan abilities add their own substantial changes to the gameplay. An audience was built on one kind of gameplay and suddenly a bunch of stuff has become easier or harder simply due to abilities. Just like changing the formula of many things it won't have the same results as the original. Even if someone tries to dismiss them as minor, they are frequently encountered in gameplay and the dissatisfaction builds up.
But the solution isn't even to remove abilities. They're great for some modes (like Invasion) and all sorts of Customs. They just need to be in their own playlists alongside ones without abilities. The usual: Slayer, CTF, BTB, etc. It's truly that simple, especially considering that there are playlists for way wilder modes and even adjusting maps is nothing new. 5 actually introduced a non-ability playlist way late into its life and it saw play despite the poor player retention that resulted from earlier mistakes at and after its launch.
@@MichaelBailee I agree with the part of not being able to shoot while sprinting or the enemy running away because of it
Yeah sure that's what the people want. Another halo game with the same 5 weapons and enemies. Out of touch.
You don’t get it do you? 🎉🥳
@@linusnottech Is this not what you are wishing for? A purist remaking of classic Halo titles with no editing done to gameplay or the elements that affect gameplay? It is inarguable, the legacy Halo fans would be pleased if 343i perfectly replicated Halo 3 and made zero changes; but what the argument closes over is *there aren't many legacy Halo fans left* anymore and those people often have moved on from gaming. They're in their middle-age phase and they have families/careers/businesses, etc. The new casual audience are Fortnite players with short attention spans and crave gratifying gameplay with minimal effort or skill required.
So ultimately, a Classic Purist Halo game would score well within the existing Halo community, but would be a misfire to the wider gaming market. How many legacy Halo fans are left after a decade of mismanagement by 343i? A million, at best? Microsoft has far higher expectations.
@@namelessstranger1270 I don't see alot of people that want a new halo game but I see alot of people that want new fps games. PVP, PVE it doesn't matter.
@@namelessstranger1270 Perfectly replicated Halo 3 would involve a weapon balance and hit registration issues that even people who hold 3 as their favorite would rather see fixed. Never mind that there are many things you can add to a new Halo even if it's modeled after 3.
Why wouldn't you launch with Firefight? Why wouldn't you launch with the best Forge, File Share, Theater and Customs options yet? Even ability vs non-ability is no hindrance as you can simply stuff abilities in alternative playlists. Even adjusting maps for different rules is nothing new to Halo. Then there's Invasion which actually benefits thematically from using abilities to make Spartans and Elites feel different.
But a lot of the stuff just mentioned is either absent in 343-era games or if it's there it's broken at launch or is added way after launch and many new people they could have retained have left.
Halo has gas in the tank but someone in a position of leadership at Microsoft/343 keeps bogging the devs down with strange mandates to ignore and replace things that Halo's audience was built on. Never mind stuff like Metroid and RE4 remakes showing people can greatly enjoy old things mostly coming back, with some improvements. There was criticism over some unnecessary changes but they were still 80-90% faithful to what the originals were about.
The truest test for Halo is to actually launch a game with non-ability gameplay, clones of those modes/playlists with abilities, Customs, Forge, File Share, Invasion, Firefight, Infection, Theater and other expected pre-343 multiplayer features (and they need to actually work at launch - many 343-era games launched with stuff broken), as well as environment variety and proper art/audio/music/characterization in campaign. "Proper" even has a lot of flexbility given how Halo Wars and to a lesser extent Reach and ODST, showed the way to bend what's expected from Halo without going way too far. This is an approach a 343 title has yet take. They always have pieces of it, but never all of it present and working at launch.
@@Krampus6-1-6 The problem in that statement is that "alot" is actually a small fraction of the audience-size Microsoft is aiming for. If they made another Halo and sold it for $60, 100k units sold wouldn't be enough to justify the budget it'd take to develop another Halo title, not even 900k units sold either. The market has changed, the waters are different now and Halo cannot prosper back to it's peak.