DCS: F-16C Viper: Toss Bombing
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ส.ค. 2022
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Map: DCS: Persian Gulf Map
In this DCS: F-16C Viper video, we’ll talk about toss bombing using both CCRP and Dive Toss bombing modes. I’ve placed some links to earlier CCRP and Dive Toss videos. This will allow you to extend the range of unpowered bombs using a toss profile and potentially keep you out of harm’s reach.
Let’s first start with a CCRP delivery by selecting A-G master mode and selecting CCRP as the bombing mode by pressing once on nose wheel steering/the missile step switch on the stick.
From the SMS page, select to release the two CBU-87 as a pair and then select the Control page. On the Control page, the default release angle is 45 degrees. For this example, let’s instead set it to 30 degrees and then select enter at the top. Next, select the Control page again to bring us back to the main SMS page. In the bottom, center of the page, we can see that the release angle is now set to 30.
We are driving to steerpoint 1 which will be our target, an SA-2 SAM site. As we fly to the Steer 1, which is also our Sensor Point of Interest, or SPI, we’ll fly to align the Azimuth Steering Line, or ASL, with the SPI, box-and-dot, on the HUD.
Along the left side of the HUD is the loft release angle scale when in CCRP and DTOS modes. 10 nm is indicated at the top and the caret to the left indicates the current range to the SPI. The top of the staple indicates maximum bomb toss range based on the selected release angle.
At 10 seconds before pulling up, the solution cue will move down the ASL to the Flight Path Marker to the Flight Path Marker. When two-seconds from toss pull up, the max toss anticipation cue will appear on the HUD as a solid circle, the caret on the range scale will be at the top of the bracket, and both the solution cue will be just above and below the Flight Path Marker. Once all converge, the max toss anticipation cue will flash for two seconds, indicating that it’s time to initiate a 4-G pull up. It’s important to try to maintain 4 Gs during the pull up and keep the flight path marker on the ASL for best accuracy.
During the pull up with the weapon release button is held down, the solution cue resets to the top of the ASL and starts to move down the ASL again to indicate time to weapon release when the solution cue and flight path marker meet. The Horizontal Bar is positioned at the selected release angle. For best results, the flight path marker, ASL, and Horizontal Bar will all intersect at weapon release.
Let’s now try this using the Dive Toss bombing mode. Press the Nosewheel Steering/Missile Step button again on the stick to select Dive Toss and press forward on the Display Management Switch to set the HUD as the Sensor of Interest. In this example, we’ll set the Dive Toss target using the helmet by pressing long forward on the Target Management Switch. By using my head, I’ll place the designation where I want my SPI to be and press forward on the Target Management Switch to set my steering. - เกม
I love how those car drivers at the end of the video just keep driving as if nothing is happening right besides them or even in front of them! 😀
Was thinking the same, Ukrainian drivers probably...
I wish the cars would be able to get damaged as collateral.
@@nexus888 Don't they? I'm a brand new DCS pilot, but I remember doing this same bombing run on a SAMsite a couple of days ago and I got multiple Range Rovers in my kill feed as well as the SAM equipment itself.
Highway to the danger zone!
@@charlie7mason the collision model on civilian traffic seems variable depending on the map. I know I used to be able to use the Ka-50 gun on civ traffic - maybe that was Caucus - but in Syria and Persian Gulf maps the vehicles seem invulnerable.
Honestly I don’t mind. It’s not a necessary part of the CPU budget unless there are mission params to not to impact civilians.
Please note that the Max Toss Anticipation Cue exists in the currently available version, but it is incorrect. This upcoming update will rectify that.
Please check this corrections on hornet loft cues. Somes test shows different results btw mk82 (always long), mk83 (on target) y mk84 (always short) bombs. Thabks fo all the effort !! We really apreciatte a lot.
exists or exits? (its there? or it yanks you out of the mode?)
Sorry, no, it doesn't exist. Neither in CCRP nor DTOS.
Aside from the as-always fantastic tutorial from Wags, I noticed that the external view info bar now has both magnetic and true headings, what a great addition!
Especially important for the upcoming Arctic Kola Peninsula map.
I love the car traffic just nonchalantly driving into the blast area at the end.
AI driver is like "Naw Super Cap is not flying that 16"
A long awaited feature 👏🏻
sling em tricky :D
One of the most anticipated bombing modes (as its the most fun and interesting). Hopefully we will see the fuel leak issues with any damage received fixed coming with this next update.
Thanks for the upload.
The cars at the end be like: "Wow, must be fourth of July, let's continue to see the fireworks!" 😄
Or if in Syria "must be Tuesday"
Thanks a lot for uploading this video! It took me a few tries but after carefully rewatching certain segments of this video I was able to drop bombs pretty reliably!!
Nice work. It looks all very straight forward to the untrained eye, but I know the team would have spent a lot of time getting this to function properly, including the weapon behavior. Now it's up to us to learn how to use it effectively.
Yes, most of the work was re MCC ballistic calculations.
I know you said in your video and dad DTOS mode is less accurate and to use air burst weapons. I’ve been using CBU 97 in DTOS with 35° release angles. It always comes up about 200 feet short or more so I will just lead my target with the TGP
!! I've been looking forward to this feature since we got the viper. Awesome!
Like the addition of magnetic heading!
I've read that pilots in Vietnam used toss bombing to attack NVA caves on mountainsides. In certain circumstances, late releases could be rather hazardous, as one could miss the mountain entirely. In this way, at least one American patrol on the other side of a mountain found itself the unfortunate victim of friendly fire. Probably some civilians, too.
It's still a pretty interesting technique, though. I'm pretty sure I practicing this in a combat flight sim from the 90s, but I can't remember which it was.
Wow. Doing simple dive bombing with a manual reticle is hard enough, manual toss bombing is insane! And this was used to deliver nuclear weapons too - tossing over a mountain.
@@henrikoldcorn as far as I know, they had a special system for toss bombing. The F-86 in DCS has it if you want to see how it works.
Civie cars just trucking along. I love it.
Hey Matt, what is the status on the handoff mode for the RWR? Will we be gettting more sounds to the RWR?
Super stuff Matt, many thanks indeed. Kind regards, Nick
hell yeah. been waiting for that for a long time
Awesome, thanks for this ED/Wags.
Ah yes, CCYP or Continuously Calculated Yeet Point.
At the end I like the way how the cars continue crossing the streets when the bombs blow.
Thanks for the tutorial 😀
The audio changed a little, seems you have more echo ?
I'm so excited
that toyota never even hit the brakes.. legendary.
This is my favorite style of bombing. I rarely attempt I mostly fly AA if I were to practice AG this would be it.
It is certainly more fun and takes more skill to be smooth on the toss and keeping the FPM squarely on the ASL.
@@MattWagner Exactly, i like doing all stuff with legacy manual ssytems, dumb bombs, rockets, gun, earlier missiles etc.
Thanks for your work, You are great!
Right On that was fun
@MattWagner - I appreciate the link to @CaptPickguard 's video - would it be worth a video to update/provide corrections to the previous CCRP videos? I struggled trying to figure out why I had a REL ANG setting that seemed to make all of my bombing not work :)
Great video, Wags! Love seeing that notification for one of your tutorials. This will be an excellent feature for the Viper.
Question: I think I saw CCIP cycle after CCRP (when pressing MSL STP button) in one of your previous videos. Did the order change recently?
Yes, for later update.
CCIP should be directly after CCRP. It should be an upcoming change.
This is the BEST GAME EVER CREATED.
When will we get flcs? The f-16 is so fun but its so hard to do acrobatics
Can you confirm that the numbers that appear next to the carret and below the staple on the HUD when in range of the toss are the predicted airplane's pitch angle and altitude at bomb release?
They look to be exactly that and performing well.
When will the FLCS MFD page be added ?
Hey Wags. I just bought the Syrian map, but when I went to download the module, it fails and gives a message "not enough space in download folder. Needs 6 something but only 3 something available" I go to the file manager and that folder is empty. I know you're not customer support, but if you know of a fix for this I would be grateful. Or, if anyone else has a fix.
Good effect on target
Interested why the dive toss needs its own DTOS weapon mode, and isn't already handled by CCRP? It doesn't look like there's any extra dive parameter stuff. What would happen if you tried a dive attack in regular CCRP? (I guess you'd miss :) )
You do through the HUD/HMCS.
For the pull-up, are you supposed to pull 4G TO the desired release angle and maintain that angle or do you pull THROUGH the release angle and maintain 4G until release?
Hold 4G with weapon release button down and as the solution cue and FPM meet, the weapon is released.
@@MattWagner Let's say we want to ripple off 6 CBUs over an 800ft span. Would we pull up to designated release angle and then let off the stick until all bombs are off? Would the CCRP assume the target point is at the center of the 800ft span or the beginning?
Through. The airplane aims just fine at a constant 3.8g and you want to continue your slice back maneuver and get back on the deck.
So, why would you pick a 35° angle vs a 45° angle? 45 angle will toss further?
Hi Matt ! Thank you for your work. Can we use the CCRP Toss for use with JDAMs ? Because it's my go-to move for attacking runways on enemy airfields.
Thx.
I think they only have "pre" and "vis" modes available. I'm curious if there are submodes for those though
No, that would not be accurate. Toss is for CCRP and DTOS, whereas IAMs use PRE and VIS.
JDAM/JSOW/WCMD don't use normal bombing modes (CCIP/CCRP/DTOS). Because JDAMs are smart weapons they don't fly ballistic arc paths like rocks. They tilt their bomb bodies and fly like a little airplane. In IAM PRE (JDAM/WCMD) for example the number to the left of the ">" caret symbol will show the pitch angle needed to get inside the inner Rmax2-Rmin2 staple. It's a similar but different HUD setup than used for ballistic weapons. Maneuvering the airplane does not have as much benefit to JDAM range like it does for ballistic weapons.
JSOW for example in IAM PRE will have no loft angle display when inside Rmax1-Rmin1 but outside Rmax2-Rmin2 (not loftable). When inside max2-min2 it will say "JIZ".
Hmm, I don't really understand what DTOS does differently from CCRP-Toss? I mean I understand you as the pilot are supposed to pull up from level flight for CCRP-Toss and pull up from a dive in DTOS, but what I don't understand is why you need two different modes for that and what exactly they do differently? What happens if I use CCRP mode when flying a DTOS profile or vice versa?
With DTOS you can designate the target through the HUD/HMCS.
@@MattWagner Oh, of course! I totally forgot about that part!
So the difference between both modes isn't really the flight profile, but that CCRP is for pre planed targets and DTOS for targets that need to be acquired visually. The different flight profile is then rather a consequence of this, as it's difficult to visually designate something when flying NOE.
Thanks, that makes it more clear now! 👍
@@realQuiGon Correct.
@@MattWagner I imagine using the TGP to acquire the targets then we would use the DTOS mode or in that case either mode would work the same?
No, use DTOS when targeting through the HUD/HMCS. th-cam.com/video/jiE6fRrkOos/w-d-xo.html
Mr Waggers - during the toss and dtoss manoeuvres, when are you pressing or holding the weapon release button? Is it fully automatic when you’re within parameters, or are you holding pickle to give WR consent?
Did I miss how you enter toss mode? Was it automatic when you hit the A/G button pending the flight profile you're in? I don't change the rel ang when I'm doing a standard level CCRP bombing run.
Toss is not a "mode", it is simply additional symbology and calculations when using CCRP or DTOS.
DTOS is a visual bombing mode like CCIP except you put the TD box on the ground visually and then continue like CCRP. You can change the bombing mode with OSB 2 on the A-G SMS MFD format or you can press the MSL STEP button on the stick to cycle through CCIP/DTOS/CCRP modes.
Nice video, thanks Wags! Did anyone notice the sim froze for a split second when selecting A-G @ 5mins 50s into the video?
The frame rate was noticeably lower with the air to ground radar on. I always switch back to hsd, or in the jf-17 I freeze the picture
I love Viper updates! Looking forward to GPS system time synced in multiplayer! Will make TOT a little easier thanks!
Agreed!
It would be cool but after doing it once or twice, syncing your clock to the F10 map clock takes about 5 seconds. You can do it while you are on the F10 map if you map your numpad keys to your ICP (at least in VR but I guess you can do the same on flat screen). Bigger issue is that the ToS you set in the mission editor for each waypoint gets adjusted based on your spawn in time, even if you set the ToS as "fixed" in the ME... That shouldn't happen for sure, makes any kind of pre-planning impossible.
@@danielmajoros5291 yeah it’s fine we have a fix with see and F10 but I mean it seems like a simple fix. It works fine for single player.
Does anything similar exist also on f-18 with AUTO mode?
Yes but it's still unimplemented.
I have a question, maybe you answered this in video but I may missed it... We have to hold the pickle button from just before pull up until autorelease when the cues match and bombs are releasing? Like in a CCRP release?
Yes, as mentioned, it's a standard CCRP attack, just using a toss profile.
@@MattWagner Thank you!
You can fly the pull up without the bomb button held. Just make sure the button is held when the solution cue hits the FPM and keep it there until all scheduled bombs are released. For DTOS you can designate the TD box onto the ground with TMS forward or the weapon release button, your choice.
Mr. Wagner, what I have to do if my f16's engine would stop starting at 10-20% during cold start ? Could you make a video about it because I cant find it in manual.
You need to let it settle at 20% longer before moving the throttle from OFF to IDLE. You are rushing it.
wait till it goes above 20% before uncaging the throttle and introducing fuel
@@shadynasty69 yeah, I know, Im doing it right but sometimes it stops at 15%
I think its an engine failour or something but im sure Im doing start correct.
Can you loft JDAMs?
As a former grunt, that last 20 secs was a horror show haha
I've been trying to do toss with JDAMs and GBU24s but they always land short even though my release has been on point. Haven't managed to toss any smart bombs at all, even well within their engagement envelope from behind a close hill for example. Was this also due to the incorrect cue?
TOSS bombing as described in this video is not for those weapons.
@@MattWagner thanks for the reply, is there any way to loft jdams at all?
@@BMD8 No specific capability like in the video.
The civilians vehicles heading in an out of the target area... xD
Was this sortie done over Iran near Bandarabbas?
In the general area, to the northwest.
8:26 that civilian car was late from work
You never mentioning holding weapon release or pushing weapon release, is that not needed?
Love the work you guys are doing! Long time DCS user but still a noob, lol. Question: Why would you want a 30⁰ release angle as opposed to the default 45⁰? Thanks
Speculation on my part, but I imagine if you're heavy/draggy you might struggle to maintain speed in steeper toss angles which will reduce the possible loft range.
Response above me is probably correct in the sense that a 45º angle might not lead to greater range due to loss of velocity, but another alternative is that a 45º release would make the bomb spend more time going up and down, which means more opportunity for the bomb to drift off the intended impact point.
Up to you, but a shallower toss angle would limit release ceiling.
@@MattWagner Makes sense. Would be good to see a video of both options to see the difference. Anyhow, thanks for keeping my hobby alive. Wish I had more time to enjoy it all 😂
Imagine you pick a 45 degree angle which can toss a bomb 30,000' horizontally. On the attack you accidentally start your pull up 30,001' away. Bomb will never come off as you pass through 45 degrees. No bomb. Mission fail.
But if you pick 30 degree angle which can toss 27,000' horizontal and you accidentally start pull up 27,500' away then bomb doesn't come off at 30 degrees but it comes off at 31 degrees. No big deal.
Plus lofting to 45 degrees will put you up higher in the air with more seconds exposed at high altitude to being shot at. Is a small toss range increase worth being exposed an extra 5 seconds and climbing an extra 1500'?
Does any of this apply to JDAMs/WCMDs or will they behave the way they do currently when tossing them?
No, that would not be accurate. Toss is for CCRP and DTOS, whereas IAMs use PRE and VIS.
@@MattWagner ah, yeah I forgot about that...
This delivery mode only applies to certain weapons (loftable dumb bombs including Paveway II). IAMs like JDAM/WCMD do not use this mode. Dumb stuff uses CCIP/CCRP/DTOS, JDAM type stuff uses MP PRE/PRE/VIS.
Does the release angle setting change any cue in the HUD?
Some cues on the HUD are due to the "max toss" (45°) angle and some cues are based on the pilot-entered REL ANG setting. The max toss anticipation circle and top of staple are based on 45 degree so will not change based on REL ANG.
Horizontal vertical steering cue, time-to-go timer, solution cue appearing 10 seconds before maneuver are based on the pilot-entered REL ANG.
The predicted climb angle at release (left of caret) is based on if you did the loft maneuver right now so will count down from 45 to 0 when flying level through the staple from top to bottom. Apparently the predicted altitude at release is similarly dynamic (notice it counts down as Wags flies level and then stays about 7000' during the pull up).
time for Osirak bombing recreations!
Mr Wagner, the 105's don't have CCRP for loft bombing because they are wind corrected? I can only pick VIS or PRE found that curious.
Correct
@@MattWagner thank you Mr Wagner, that was driving me crazy.
Will F18 get toss cue update
For IAMs, yes, later.
Awesome! Will this also work with CBU-105s, or are they for dumb bombs only?
No, that would not be accurate. Toss is for CCRP and DTOS, whereas IAMs use PRE and VIS.
@@MattWagner thanks for the clarification! For CBU105 attacks, would you recommend popping up and leveling off for the release, or were they not intended for a low altitude release in the first place?
Dumb, loftable bombs only like Mk 82, CBU-87, GBU-12 can use this. Smart weapons like JDAM, WCMD, JSOW will not use CCRP/CCIP/DTOS at all. Non-loftable weapons like Mk 82AIR will not have loft guidance.
Must have some good sales going on down at Walmart, can't be bothered by bombs exploding right next to the cars 😂😂😂
So do you hold the pickle button in on the climb to the 30°?
Yes
Good vid but shame to see the ground shadows popping in and out around the mountains. Shame this hasn’t been fixed yet.
Are the releases automatic or is the pickle button held during the pull-up?
It's CCRP, so naturally you must hold down the weapon release button.
@@MattWagner Do you need to wait until after the pull up cue occurs to start holding the weapon release button, or can you hold it down before you get to the pull up cue?
@@flyguy1237 No, anytime. Again, it's standard CCRP SOP.
@@MattWagner Great thank you.
@@MattWagner So, if we want to do a straight and level CCRP the solution cue comes down two times? The first being only an indication for an optional toss pullup?
I believe the technical term is "Yeet bombing"
Yo idk if im full on blind but is that first airport we saw already in game? I NEVER saw it lol
Been there are ages.
@@MattWagner lol well yea in definitely have to many maps lol. Thx tho
Fi kad. Boom. Mujahedin
Holy crap I didn't know this guy was real
Did you ever read about the use of TU22 supersonic toss bombing fab 9000 in the Iran Iraq war? Being able to hit cities from outside of AA range without modern GPS is super cool if its actually true.
How To CCRP like before with 0 pitch ?????
Just fly level and wait for the release cue to pass through the FPM AFTER the toss indications.
Cool. Where's my Viper driver model? 🙂
As we've said many times, after the new helicopter pilots are done.
😁👍
Is this implemented now? 0r need patch?
"Coming Soon" and see pinned comment, please.
Now i can be a real tossa
Look at Wags using 8417 from the 162nd Wing
Best to be *within* the HARMs reach though...
missed one
if we can toss GPS/INS guided bombs this would be a great way to throw bombs from further away at high altitude.
No, that would not be accurate. Toss is for CCRP and DTOS, whereas IAMs use PRE and VIS.
Unfortunately it broke the CCRP on Viper when in level angle.
It is correct, please see earlier videos on the pull up cue.
If I'm wrong, can you please an updated video showing how to send a CCRP on level flight, please?
@@EderNucci th-cam.com/video/Brz1zl-Sbhk/w-d-xo.html
@@MattWagner Yeah, I saw this. But I want to do a level release, like before, not at angle. Can it be done or the feature is gone?
@@EderNucci Then just continue flying through the pull up indication and wait for the release cue whilst level. Please use our forum if you are still having trouble: forum.dcs.world/forum/118-dcs-f-16c-viper/
Why does it sound like Wags inhaled helium before recording this? 😄
A lot of Emotional damage is going to be dealt
I prefer the stand-off capability and accuracy of the AGM-88 for SAMs. Bombing just requires you to get too close.
Well, the truth is that if SAMs and HARM were simulated on a realistic way HARM shouldn’t be capable of destroying the SAM, in any case just to suppressing it for a short amount of time, that’s why you have to do thing like this
Yea what he said. Shakur, usually, realistically, SAM sites will turn off their radar when they notice a Harm launch coming their way. Making the Harm miss. But this is why SEAD is differentiated from DEAD. So the SEAD flight will carry harms, and DEAD flight will carry bombs. SEAD shuts the radar off, then DEAD comes in while it's off and bombs away!
In the fighter pilot podcast there's an episode (either the SAM or SEAD episode) where a Navy pilot says that the USAF is happy with releasing HARMs to suppress air defenses during a strike and then suppress them again when necessary. The Navy has to get the weapons shipped to their carrier so when they suppress a SAM site, they'd rather not have to deal with it again if they need to come back or else they can deplete their stock of HARMs. That's getting into the difference between SEAD and DEAD but worth thinking about.
I might be mistaken but a Vietnam era pilot once said that to make sure a SAM site was dead was dropping bombs and cluster bombs on it. And if possible strafe the place with rockets and guns just to make sure.
that U on RWR...
If it's the least accurate bombing mode, seems like a waste of munitions.
Least accurate, yes. But very useful when using the right weapon against a target you don't want to get too close to.
Try to get hold of a copy of "Tornado in the Eye of the Storm" by John Nichol. He was an RAF navigator and weapons officer flying Tornados in the first Gulf war. In it he describes the toss bombing technique used against heavily defended Iraqi airfields. He and his pilot were captured and tortured by the Iraqis after being shot down.
Uh hum, I sneak up on those evil SAM sites with a NOE flight, pull up, and before they can find a radar solution on me, toss those showers of bomblets on them and then disappear into the terrain again. Sweet
😎 𝓟Ř𝔬𝓂𝔬𝐒ϻ
Please lower the volume of the game, your voice was very difficult to hear in the first half of the video.
به زودی تجهیزاتش رو تهیه میکنم و رقیب سختی روبروی خودتون خواهید دید 🌹
I’ll say this takes a great deal of practice when using cbu97s. Or MK82s. I keep coming up short by about 200ft or more when I put my TGP in a point lock on my target, so I try to lead it by about that much in a 35° toss.