Stephen Gardiner: Wily Winchester?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.พ. 2024
- Let’s take a look at the things we know about Gardiner’s life to see what we think about his character, actions and legacy…
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Intro / Outro song: Silent Partner, "Greenery" [ • Greenery - Silent Part... ]
SFX from freesfx.co.uk/Default.aspx
Images (from Wikimedia Commons, unless otherwise stated):
Portrait of Cardinal Thomas Wolsey by Sampson Stong (1585-1596). Held by Trinity College.
Portrait of Henry VIII by Joos van Cleve (c.1531). Held by the Royal Collection.
Portrait of Stephen Gardiner by an unknown 16th century artist. Held in an unknown location / collection.
Portrait of William Warham by Hans Holbein the Younger (1527). Held by the Louvre Museum.
Portrait of Thomas Cranmer by Gerlach Flicke (1545-1546). Held by the National Portrait Gallery.
Portrait of Thomas Cromwell by Hans Holbein the Younger (1532-1533). Held by The Frick Collection.
Screenshot of frontispiece for printed version of De Vera Obedienta from: buff.ly/3uQT6pj
Artist’s impression of the Pilgrimage of Grace 1536 by Fred Kirk Shaw (1913). Held by Lancs Museum.
Draft of the Six Articles (1539) amended in Henry VIII’s own hand. Scan from "David Starkey, Susan Doran: Henry VIII, Man and Monarch, exhibition catalogue, 2009.
Portrait of Katherine Parr by an unknown artist (late 16th century). Held by the National Portrait Gallery.
King Edward VI and the Pope by an unknown artist (c.1575). Held by the National Portrait Gallery.
Mary I of England and Philip II of Spain by an unknown artist (1558). Held by the Royal Museums Greenwich.
Portrait of Edward Courtenay, 1st Earl of Devon by an unknown artist (c.1555). Held in a unknown private collection.
Portrait of Elizabeth by an unknown artist (c.1546). Held by the Royal Collection.
Quoted texts:
Michael Riordan and Alec Ryrie, “Stephen Gardiner and the Making of a Protestant Villain” (2003)
C. D. C. Armstrong, ODNB entry on Stephen Gardiner.
Also consulted, were:
Other relevant entries from The Oxford Dictionary of National Biography Online.
#History #Tudor #Reformation - บันเทิง
I am so thankful for all of these videos. I had a stroke in late December and it’s been wonderful to take my mind off of things. Thanks Dr Kat!!!!!! ❤
Hello from Texas USA, I do hope you have a speedy and complete recovery.
Speedy recovery! Blessings on you and those assisting you.
Sending prayers and best wishes for a full recovery from Michigan USA!❤🙏
God bless you and your carers. I pray for your speedy and complete recovery. 🙏 ❤️
Praying you have a complete recovery and feel better soon,God bless 🙏 Michigan USA 🇺🇸
It seems like a miracle he didn’t lose his head with how many times he directly or indirectly challenged Henry, Edward, and even Mary
Such a busy boy. You really wonder how he found time to look after his geese.
Lmfao
It seems to me that the more I hear of Gardener, the more he seems to be a self-serving and cunning servant to the immediate goal of survival. In the 16th century Royal Court of England, that took talent.
When I was studying Tudor history at A level, there was a general impression that Gardiner was a bit villainous by the time of Elizabeth’s reign- glad to see some different evidence in this video, he sounds more like someone playing a cautious game of survival during changing times. Thanks Dr Kat!
I know that being a court official was a coveted position. However, the mercurial nature of the Monarchs and losing their favor often meant losing your head seems hardly worth the risk. 🏰
That’s what I’ve been thinking. Why would they do it? Unless they couldn’t refuse.
Some people enjoy risk taking, for various reasons.
As the character of Anne Boleyn’s ghost in “The Tudors “ series said, it was as if they were “drawn to a flame “.
There were more than a few wealthy families who did their best to keep a low profile
Seriously! I’d take skilled tradesperson of the middle class any day of the week lol. No court for me please!
One of the best channels on TH-cam! 👍
Thank you, I’m really pleased you like the channel ☺️
Fully agree! I wish she taught everyone history!
I think even despite Gardiner's views of Elizabeth, I think Mary would've still shared some sense to not harm her half sister, I do feel like if she had any desire to off her, she would have done it a lot sooner
I’m now curious about Wriostheley. 🧐
Gratitude Dr Kat
Love this. Would love to see more on monarchs and their archbishops and how they worked together or against one another. Your Majesty vs Your Grace
Always informative and educational. Can't wait for your next one🏵. Thanks for all the work!
I think Gardiner, considering how many times he risked his head on the block, was slightly more concerned with religion than power. But he certainly wasn’t averse to pushing himself forward.
Very interesting as always! I am reminded how affected we are by those things we experience as youngsters. I remember Basil Dignam clearly as Gardiner in the 1971 Elizabeth R series when I watched it as a boy, and later rewatched several times as an adult. The way his character was written and performed, he seemed to have regretted his previous actions in Henry's great matter and in Mary's reign was intent on righting his wrongs. But as you present, he was a bit more "opportunistic" (if that's the correct word) in real life.
As an FYI, looking up Dignam's name, I fell down a Vivien Pickles rabbit hole lol!! And God bless, she's still with us!!!
Elizabeth R will always be my favorite Tudors series! For me, no actress surpasses Glenda Jackson’s portrayal of Elizabeth I!
Your short of the sneaky peek worked as although I have hit the bell, sometimes I don't remember to actually always check out the video. Ty Dr Kat, as always
I guess there were perks in working for a monarch, but my goodness there were incredible risks too! Another enjoyable video, Dr. Kat - thanks so much!✝📚🏰
This guy took "don't poke the bear" as a personal challenge. You've gotta give it to a guy who manages to piss off Henry, Edward, AND mary and STILL avoided being executed! ⛪️🧏♂️🗡️
What a great video!!! Thanks to you and all your viewers who suggested this subject. I wonder if Gardiner had a change of heart while pursuing Henry's great matter. He may have viewed the will of God and the will of God's anointed King (i.e. Royal Supremacy) as synonymous, but worried about the direction of the reform. His seeming sympathy for the Pilgrimage of Grace, his reluctance to pursue Pole, his work on the Six Articles, and his persistence even after the threat of arrest for treason all seem to point toward this. Again, awesome video!!!🏵🏵🏵
Look forward to seeing 😁
He could have given doublespeak lessons to today's politicians. Excellent video, as always!❤
The picture of your little boy with the mask is so cute.❤
Love your content! can't wait!
I always went for unpopular historical figures and Gardiner was definitely on that list. Standing up for the traditional Church in a time when it was threatened. He realized that Catholic orthodoxy was only possible within union with Rome
Another great video Dr. Kat. ❤
❤❤ great as always Dr Kat
Enjoyable and informative as always. Thank you😊
Thanks once again Dr. Kat
Insightful as always! Bravo👏
Thank you. I needed a reminder about this person.
I've always been fascinated by Gardner. Thanks for this! ❤
I love your videos! Your insight and knowledge are incredible!
Wonderful video! 👑👑👑
amazing video 🛐🥀
Thank you.
Always a great program.
💙 from 🇺🇸
Thanks!
A new listener to your historical tales..Really riveting and informative..Can't wait to see what else you investigate..Thank you for your entertaining videos..😊❤
Thank you, Dr. Kat
❤ History
so interesting especially this part
🥰🥰🥰 I absolutely love your videos!!! I very much enjoy reading The war of the roses and tutor history books as well as fictional novels, and so I relish when you provide these biographies to us. You give another dimension to these individuals who played their part in historical events. Blessings.
Another great presentation!👏👍⛪️
I love this channel! ❤
Love your channel!
Like him or hate him, he was a survivor in the Tudor court, and that's pretty miraculous in itself, really. 💪
I wonder if he stared out as a good guy, but eventually greed and or desire for power got to him.📚👨🎓⚔️
🏰loved the lesson
❤ it sounds like Wily Winchester was a complex man trying to navigate a very complex and turbulent time. The emotional intelligence needed to survive Tudor court never ceases to amaze me. I wonder in 600 years will there be a Dr Kat reviewing the American Senate of 2016 -?????.
One needs to be incredibly emotionally cued in or blind to survive.
Awesome 🎉
Gardiner was such an interesting and compelling, if not at all likable, character in the wonderful Wolfhall trilogy by the brilliant, late and much missed, Hilary Mantel, and beautifully acted in the series adaptation. I thought the actor who played Norfolk was amazing, too, perhaps the very best of all. Gardiner and Norfolk stood out as two of the finest performances in the series, in my opinion, in addition to Claire Foy’s. These actors all fully inhabit and “become” their characters, an achievement that our American actors rarely seem to attain. A rare exception was the American actor who played Francis Poldark so beautifully in the (more recent) Poldark series. If I want the best acting, I watch your British actors snd productions, who are almost alone in the world’s top tier. Perhaps it’s the daily Shakespeare! I’m a loyal American, but don’t always think we’re the best at everything, because we’re just not❤
I have yet to be disappointed when ever I click on to your videos ❤
Enjoy your vids-thank you
Had to re-subscribe after being 'mysteriously unsubscribed' - I suppose it's to prove one keeps showing up for another great video - this one, like the others, was fair and balanced in its assessment of the people being discussed. I felt sympathetic towards Gardiner. ✝✝
I’d love to have you do a video on my ancestor Nicholas Felton! He has a bible translator (Greek to English),scholar,personal clergy to King James and held prestigious positions in the church and at Oxford and Cambridge. He came from a long line of people who served the kings and queens of England going back to the Conqueror. Love your videos and am always entertained by them!
Really love your channel. Thinking of Bishops of Winchester, would love to hear your take on Cardinal Beaufort - and indeed the Beaufort family.
I suspect that, like many other men of faith during the Tudor era, that there was no dividing line between his faith and his desire for power. Authority comes from God through His chosen tools, after all, so whatever advanced his powers advanced God’s Will. Which is, of course, very convenient for those in power. 🙄
I think you nailed it! The will of God and the will of God's anointed King were seen as the same. And it's all so convenient until your conscience starts to get the best of you
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☕️🫖… Thank you for your informative video. I enjoy each and every one.
Story about Bishop Bonner and Jane Dormer Lady in waiting for Mary I and Count de Feria would be interesting.
Surviving under Henry VIII was quite the dance! 💃 princesses Mary and Elizabeth, Anne of Cleve’s , and Queen Katherine Parr are join by Stephen Gardiner in managing the correct steps to survive the daily dance of freedom and life vs imprisonment and death by execution. During their lifetimes both Mary and Elizabeth had to illnesses likely connected to the stress of survival PTSD. Gardiner seemed able to play both sides, getting rid of the right heretic at the right moment.🎯
More intriguing to me is the ‘love’ ❤, use the cautiously, Henry had for Cranmer.
I cannot believe it you seemed to have disappeared! When you popped up again I saw that I was 'unsubscribed"...... YT is driving me crazy by deciding to drop some of my favorite channels !! Well, I am subbed again... so hello again.... and thank you again for all you do for us !!
🎉thank you😂😂😂😮
Stephen Gardner sounds like the Pharisee, Saul in the Bible. Persecuting genuine Christians. He was clearly power obsessed, and obstinate. Really fascinating podcast, thank you.
Thanks for the video on this interesting person. Gardiner was an academic, and like many, had strong opinions. I wonder if his fervor in routing out reformers was him trying to prove his point to the monarch and persuade them. Gardiner certainly had a talent for staying alive, which I think was a matter of luck (Edward's reign) and perhaps his personality (Henry was lenient with him, where he was not with others).
I'm not surprised that for the most part he got along well with Mary, and that his eventual capitulation over Philip happened. Maybe his age left less of a fight in him. I don't think that Gardiner's death saved Elizabeth. Mary was hesitant to execute political rivals, especially family.
Only just started watching this but I had a bit of a brain melt when I heard 'two Stephen Gardiners' and I wondered who the bloody hell the other one was, and how did I miss him?
Seems to me that he was motivated by power. He was capable of changing his course when he needed to - not a devoted self-sacrificing adherent to anything except what would advance his career. But he was clever and able to survive Henry's rages. What an unpleasant man.
I have always wondered about his motivations, mixed like those of most people I am sure. ⛪✝
Thank you so much for this video. The only reference I have to Gardner is from “A Man for All Seasons”. He come off rather oily and self serving. But the maybe he was. His convictions held until something better came along. That did insure survival but lacks self convection. But then again, what would I do in a structure where all things good flow from the monarch and I wanted to live and live well 🤷🏽♀️ At least he meet his end in his bed.
🙏🏼
✝️ ⛪️ Thank you for a very balanced and well researched presentation!
Great video as always Dr. Kat. I think Stephen Gardiner was driven be a combination of religious zeal and a quest for power. Gaining power and high office would just help him root out his enemies in religion more easily.👑⛪✝
Gardiner had a hand in the torture and burning of my direct relative during the reign of Mary I, so it's interesting to know more about the man.
Religious and political power are still intertwined to this day. Thank you for this insightful presentation.
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Hi Dr Kat!! A question popped in my head this morning...do you think the Lady Jane Grey coup would have been successful if the Dowager Queen remained alive?
Hmm 🤔. She certainly could have used all the help she could get.
Would the coup have happened at all if she were still alive? I think Catherine’s death was at least partially responsible for setting the chessboard for what happened in 1553.,If Catherine hadn’t died, she might still be married to Thomas Seymour, who wouldn’t have been executed for attempting marry Elizabeth and abduct Edward VI. Would Edward Seymour have fallen from power and been supplanted by John Dudley? Dudley taking power was what led to the Jane Grey coup. Thomas Seymour was at one point Lady Jane Grey’s guardian, but there’s no indicator he wanted the throne for her…he wanted to marry her to Edward at one point, however, in contrast to the more formal plans for betrothal with foreign royals, like Mary, Queen of Scots and Elisabeth of Valois.
Also, I don’t think there’s an indicator that Catherine would be more sympathetic toward Jane’s cause even if the situation did happen…the only concrete indicator of their relationship is that Jane was chief mourner at her funeral. But regardless of any domestic dramas or religious differences, I feel like she would hope she would be sympathetic to her stepdaughters as legitimate claimants, and just as she did in 1546, I would hope she would be able to read the room and understand when to push for religious reform and when to step back.
The way you tell it, he seems like an individual with integrity, more than wily - not necessarily someone I'd admire, but not somebody I would think didn't work fearlessly for what he believed to be right. ⛪
I wonder if you might consider doing a "what if" type video on what it would be like had he lived on longer 🤔🤔 I like all of your videos and lives, but those are my favorites.
🔥
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Fascinating as always. I suspect that young Elizabeth’s life would have been in peril if he lived. ⛪️
😊
I think he was primarily a politician,he had beliefs but was able to dodge and bend
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Lucky Elizabeth! He was a sycophant from the get go. Every time he expressed a real opinion and pissed off his monarch, he back pedaled so he could get back in power.💋🐴
For me, Gardiner's true motivations are a mystery. For a pure opportunist, he seems far too willing to risk his head by defying his monarch. But his convictions do seem to vary over time - perhaps as a natural response to events, in a time of great division and confusion.
⛪♟👑 good show, always is ❤🙂
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
⛑⛪ How did he get so lucky as to not lose his head to Henry? A little bob and weave. I like to think that if he'd have lived long enough to deal with Elizabeth as Queen, she would have taken him out.
I feel that Gardiner always tried to balance his support of the positions of the current monarch with his own personal beliefs, but which didnt always work out for him...
Great work Dr. Kat. I do think Gardiner was focused on religion, and this weirdly... weirdly... 😆remined me of this person I met at our church who was so zealously faithful that he seemed to have a hard time trusting the leadership of 'his' faith to others. Perhaps Gardiner's faith was also the motivation behind his career-climbing interests? Hey side question(s), unrelated here: When in your opinion (whether successful or not) was the last usurper who made a real run at the throne? At what point did the business of 'usurping to the throne' seem to become a thing of the past?
Thank you, great question! My initial answer is going to be the Jacobites, but as their claim was disrupted by the “Glorious Revolution”, one might argue that they weren’t attempted usurpers but rather rightful claimants denied.
The Jacobites were kept at bay through the Georgian period and as our current monarch has a very direct line of descent from the Hanoverians that may explain the lack of attempted usurpations more recently.
Additionally, as the monarchy has become more rigidly constitutional, I wonder if the usurpation cake simply isn’t worth the baking anymore 🤷🏻♀️
@@ReadingthePast Outstanding!
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Hi Dr Kat,
What are your opinions on Alison’s Weir’s books? I am really enjoying making my way through them but am wondering about their utility to a historian?
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🙂
The more I watch historical videos, the more I’m convinced I would not survive a day in Tudor England… 🏴🙃
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The intrigue going on in those European courts make for better reading than much skillfully written fiction.
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Was Stephen Gardiner the bloke in the last series of the Tudors who looked like a Turkey? That program was so rushed at the end I barely knew who anyone was however the CGI Holbien at the end gave me the best laugh since the odd look on Anne Boleyn's face as it flew through the air.
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If as it was believed at the time a King or Queen was chosen by god to rule a England then serving a monarch is serving god. I think that SG was motivated his religious believes and was elevated to the court because of his knowledge of law.
can you do some Irish history?
Is there a particular event / period / person you have in mind?
@@ReadingthePast Queen Maeve and Gormlaith ingen Murchada and Grace O'Malley she was a pirate princess
I second that! I would love to see Irish history as well. ❤❤
@@Dragonfruit_Iceream224I think Dr. Kat already has a video on Grace OMalley,
@@ReadingthePast The Irish Famine and Queen Victoria and Britain's views and response to it