The Traitor Dukes?: The Stafford Family
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ก.ย. 2022
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I have been asked, in my comments section, to talk about the reality behind the portrayal of the Duke of Buckingham in “The Tudors”; this led me to think about his family as whole and how they were, allegedly, a nest of traitors…
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Intro / Outro song: Silent Partner, "Greenery" [ • Greenery - Silent Part... ]
SFX from freesfx.co.uk/Default.aspx
Images (from Wikimedia Commons, unless otherwise stated):
Humphrey Stafford, Duke of Buckingham by William Bond, published by Philip Yorke, after Joseph Allen; stipple engraving, published 1 August 1798. Held by the National Portrait Gallery.
King Henry V by an unknown artist (late 16th or early 17th century). Held by the National Portrait Gallery.
King Henry VI by an unknown English artist (circa 1540). Held by the National Portrait Gallery.
King Edward IV by an unknown English artist (circa 1540). Held by the National Portrait Gallery.
Elizabeth Woodville by an unknown English artist (circa 1590). Held by Queens’ College, University of Cambridge.
The Two Princes Edward and Richard in the Tower, 1483 by Sir John Everett Millais, 1878, part of the Royal Holloway picture collection
King Richard III by an unknown artist (late 16th century). Held by the National Portrait Gallery.
The Children of Edward by Paul Delaroche (1830). Held by the Louvre.
Henry Stafford, 2nd Duke of Buckingham by William Sherlock (18th century). Held by the Fine Arts Museums of San Francisco ImageBase.
King Henry VII by an unknown Netherlandish artist (1505). Held by the National Portrait Gallery.
Lady Margaret Beaufort, Countess of Richmond and Derby by an unknown artist (second half of 17th century). Held by the National Portrait Gallery.
Henry VIII by Joos van Cleve (c.1530-35). Held by the Royal Collection.
Katherine of Aragon by an unknown artist (c.1520). Held by the National Portrait Gallery.
The Field of Cloth of Gold by an unknown artist (c.1545). Held by the Royal Collection.
Cardinal Thomas Wolsey by an unknown artist (1585-1596). Held by Trinity College, Cambridge.
Edward Stafford, 3rd Duke of Buckingham by an unknown artist (1520). Held by Magdalene College, Cambridge.
Texts consulted, include:
The relevant entries from The Oxford Dictionary of National Biography Online.
#History #Tudor #Treason
In recent years I've come to see that life at the Tudor Court was one of constant surveillance of a completeness and sophistication to match AI. And they didn't even have smartphones and cookies then. What I mean is everybody was spying on everybody else. If you were one of the rich and powerful you were actually worse off. All your servants might have been taking personal details of your health,your words,your private actions to one or other of the Foreign Ambassadors who all paid well for such covert information and I've read that the Spanish Ambassador paid the highest rate which is why the most juicy revelations are now in the Vatican library. But your ladies in waiting or your gentlemen would have been noting your every move too as they might be able to assist family members climb the greasy pole. Nowadays we are trained to think being rich and famous is a guarantee of lifelong security and wellbeing but of course history shows us it's not. Actually a video about the spy system of those days would be fascinating.
Elizabeth's Walsingham was the best head of Intelligence until MI5
I totally agree with this !
Keep your friends close; keep your enemies closer.
I agree, I’d love to hear a dissection of this.
They have statues of men peering down up the walls at the Tudor Court ... I think Hampton castle.. it's where we get the word eavesdroppers from... So you are very right... people were walking on those balconies listening to everything below them.. hope I'm explaining it properly maybe Google it and do your own research as it is quite interesting.
Please!!! A rundown of the confusing titles and ranks of nobility in history would be wonderful
The ranks of the nobility are pretty simple, Duke is the highest rank followed by Marquess, Earl, Viscount and Baron.
@@Victorianification Robyn mentioned 'in history' - so not easy at all.
agreed!
Only three minutes in, but please, yes… history of the Peerages!
Sounds to me like the Tudors were anxious/eager to get rid of anyone of the Plantaganet bloodline, because Henry VII particularly, and VIII, knew the Tudor 'claim' to the throne was tenuous at best - being descended from an illegitimate branch of John of Gaunt. Henry VII married Elizabeth of York - Edward IV daughter - to legitimize and solidify his claim and rule through descendants of a legitimate Plantaganet king. To make this work, Henry VII had to overturn the Act of Titulus Regis which declared all of Edward IV children by Elizabeth Woodville to be illegitimate.
I was today years old when I learned the Stafford had a better claim to the throne then the Tudor- Thank you!!
Frankly I think I have more claim than Henry Tulip(thank you Blackadder)
These family trees can be so confusing to get your head around 🤯
Fair play to Dr Kat for trying to simplify them
I'd love to learn more about the English peerage and maybe even about its state today.
Also, is there a reason why seemingly everyone has the same name? Especially Henry? I feel like most important men are called either Henry, William, George, Edward or Richard; women Catherine, Anne or Margaret. Its so confusing!
A lot of noble children were named after the reigning monarch or their consort at the time.
Many "great" families were determined to pass on certain names to the extent where they sometimes named several of their children by the same name (!)......thus even happened when the first child with the name was still alive (!)
Here's a sample of the children of Thomas Howard, Earl of Norfolk:
Thomas Howard, 3rd Duke of Norfolk
Sir Edward Howard
Lord Edmund Howard
Sir John Howard
Henry Howard
Charles Howard
Henry Howard (second of that name)
Richard Howard
Elizabeth Howard
Muriel Howard
William Howard, 1st Baron Howard of Effingham
Lord Thomas Howard (second of that name)
Richard Howard (second of that name)
Dorothy Howard
Anne Howard
Katherine Howard
Elizabeth Howard (second of that name)
Even as an Australian of many generations distance from British ancestors most of my male relatives have Edward, George, William, Thomas, and John somewhere in their names. 🤣
@@leanie5234 Oh my… we’re all of these children from 1 Mother?
@@lisadwyer9699 I know three families that have children (of one mother and father) with 16-19 children! All very happy families, but I hope the children have not carried on that tradition!
Yes please! Some more videos about the famous noble families would be very much appreciated. The names pop up in so many historical books, dramas and documentaries but their history and how they fit into the history of Britain is never fully explained.
I would love a video on the subject of peerages, both created and inherited. How does one earn knighthood? Why are there 14 Earls of Somewhere-shire? Do they all meet once a year to..."duke it out?" 😂 But seriously, I'm an American and find the peerage system simultaneously fascinating and confusing. Also, what constitutes a shire, county, dukedom, etc. over there?
I think if you watch these types of videos you should have some idea of the peerage, you can't expect Dr Kat to go explaining it all to you. Google it in fairness. Read some historical fiction, read something about English/,European royalty in the 14th/15th/16th Century, then your ready for this video. Enjoy...
I stumbled on this delightful video and am enjoying the answers to(the same) questions that I had during the video. NOW I am armed with enough info to begin my own research journey. You can't Google for information or knowledge if you don't have the questions in the first place...I promise you'll understand--think on it...not everyone is blessed with IQ high enough to never boldly question or already have a vast knowledge of everything easily. Ease up Friend, we each learn the best we can.
Would really like a session on the different titles and their history!
I would love to get your take on the peerage. I'm very familiar with it but I always learn so much from your perspective.
As I was looking into my maternal grandfather’s side I remember coming across the Stafford, Woodville and Beaufort names you mentioned.. so interesting to find out more about some of these people that lived so long ago.
Same, Stafford’s are my paternal line
l also have Stafford line from 1700's Ireland to present day-my Father. Much family lore suggests Ireland Staffords migrated from England to escape political royalty stuff. I'm so glad to have found this video
I absolutely love your channel. I genuinely get so excited when I see a notification that you’ve uploaded a new video. Keep up the amazing work.
Yes, please do a video (or videos) on the English Peerage! I would also enjoy videos on the Irish and Scottish aristocracy.
The Irish would be interesting. I have heard English and Scottish before.
Hilary Mantel's death. What a huge loss. RIP
Hello Kat - I’m in hospital and watching all your videos - it’s great that you have been working on a new one for me 😊👍🏻 please can I have another tomorrow ? 🤣🤣🤣
Please feel better soon😊
Hope you are better!
Hello Dr. Kat. I'd love to watch a video about the current English peerage and which are now extinct. Thanks as always for your great content!
I would love to learn more about the peerage. Thank you! ~Anastacia in Cleveland
I recently found out the Staffords are my ancestors! There’s a lot to learn so very grateful you tell the narrative so well!
I have Stafford s and Nevilles too. One big tangled web of familys
Edward Stafford was my 13th Great Grandfather, also related to the Neville family, unfortunately descended from younger daughters so no wealth passed down lol.
Three of Henry Stafford's grandparents were descendants of Edward III, and two of said grandparents were descendants of John of Gaunt (through whom the Lancastrians claimed the throne). It's easy to see why he felt his claim was more substantial than that of Richard III, who was descended from Gaunt's younger brother Edmund (where the Yorkists got their claim). Not to mention, as one of the most powerful men in England behind Richard, he would easily be in a position to claim the throne for himself should both Henry Tudor and Richard die in battle or of some other cause. That would certainly explain the 1483 uprising.
1483 has to be one of the most frustratingly complicated years of the fifteenth century: so much has to be based on speculation: a lot of documentation is either absent or disposed of. Regarding Buckingham on his own terms, I have many questions, among them:
- The nature of his former relationship, if any, with Richard; and what arrangement led to his meeting Richard and Anthony at Northampton (and what conversation really went on there).
- The nature of his former relationship with Hastings, and during the weeks following the arrival at London, as Richard was already displaying a preference for Buckingham over Hastings.
- Buckingham had custody of John Morton after the execution of Hastings, and traveled with him to Buckingham's property at Brecon, in Wales. Morton was a Lancastrian, though he had prospered under Edward IV: an intelligent schemer; and a survivor. The case could be made that it was under the influence of Morton that Buckingham switched to Tudor.
For my part, I question his involvement, if any with Edward V and Richard of York -- I strongly question whether they were executed, and I base a good margin of my doubts on the doubts expressed by William Stanley, who was beheaded during the rise of Perkin Warbeck, saying that if there was a chance that Warbeck was young Richard, he'd support him. The Stanleys were one of the most cautious, informed, self-preserving families of the period. If William Stanley had questions about what really happened to the Princes, then there are questions to be asked. If that's the case, I hold off on accusing Buckingham and Richard both.
Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t the Yorks get their claim from Edmund but also Edward III’s second son Lionel (who is older than John of Gaunt). This claim comes from Richard of York’s (Richard III’s dad) mother since she was a direct descendent of Lionel so when she had Richard of York he became the heir for both Lionel and Edmund (the second and fourth sons) so that’s why lots of people think the Yorks had a stronger claim than the Lancastrians because of Lionel.
@@amydownes1626 that may be true, and by the laws of absolute primogeniture Richard Duke of York certainly has the stronger claim. However, the crown in those days was passed by male-preference primogeniture, and under those laws the House of York could only legally claim the throne should all descendants of John of Gaunt die out (since John of Gaunt's line was male, and therefore considered senior.) This was reflected in a treaty that was signed by Richard and Henry VI, when Henry agreed to pass the throne to Richard and his descendants - but only *after* he died.
@@jovindsouza3407 That’s interesting actually - the Yorks and Lancastrians both had such complicated and strong claims which makes the entire conflict a lot messier than I realized
The House of York was descended from three of Edward III's sons: 1) Lionel of Antwerp, Duke of Clarence 2) John of Gaunt, Duke of Lancaster and 3) Edmund of Langley, Duke of York. Lionel had a daughter who married the Earl of March (which is why Edward IV was known by the courtesy title of "Earl of March" while his father was alive). Their granddaughter married the son of Edmund of Langley (who was executed by Henry V). The House of York did not inherit the Dukedom of Clarence through a female, but a superior right to the throne was claimed through female ancestry. Note that Henry V's claim to the throne of France came from Edward III's mother, who was a daughter of the King of France. Also, the House of Anjou's (i.e. "Plantagenet") royal lineage came from a female: the Empress Matilda, who, after having been the spouse of the Holy Roman Emperor, married the Count of Anjou. The mother of Edward IV and Richard III was Cecily Neville, who was the daughter of Joan Beaufort, who was the natural daughter of John of Gaunt and his mistress, Katherine Swynford. "Beaufort" was an adopted surname (after a fortress in France). Henry IV subsequently solemnized John of Gaunt and Katherine Swynford's relationship, but with the understanding that his relations would not be allowed to jeopardize his descendants' rights to the throne (and, of course, Henry IV usurped the throne from his cousin and had him, Richard II, starved to death at Pontefract Castle). Although the House of York was part Beaufort, it was not _only_ Beaufort - unlike the House of Tudor. Henry VII's sole connection to Edward III was via his mother, who was the great-granddaughter of John of Gaunt via his and Katherine Swynford's son, John. So the House of Tudor, absent Elizabeth of York's inheritance, had no right to the throne as the Beauforts were cut out of any succession (as was typical of bastard progeny). By primogeniture, the House of York had a superior line of descent. Certainly compared to Henry Stafford, who was a descendant of Thomas of Woodstock: Edward III's youngest son.
I would love to learn about the peerage and the origins of the various titles and the families who held them. I'm particularly interested in the period just following the Conquest. The Anglo-Saxon nobility held titles, but did the Norman king take them all away and confer them on his noble followers from the Continent, or did some of the Anglo-Saxons retain their titles and lands? Did later Norman kings confer titles on both Anglo-Saxon and Norman subjects? When did the distinction fade? Is it possible to know which noble families descend from Anglo-Saxon rather than Norman nobility?
There is an old historical novel about that period : “Below the Salt” written by Thomas Costain., who also wrote The Robe. i read it when I was a teenager and i was impressed at how totally the Normams subjugated the Saxon social order and culture, especially the legal system. Under the Saxon Kings, women could inheirit property, but under the Nomans, women had no rights,
Oh, yes, please, Dr Kat! One of my favorite periods in English history. I would love you to speak on this topic, too.
Thanks as always for solid content. I would love to see/hear more about the various peerage families. It's interesting to see the titles start and stop and move on through random tertiary branches in families.
During the War of the Roses it must have been a nightmare being a noble. Constantly changing kings and alliances. As it seems all of them were closely or distantly related. What constant turmoil these people must have lived a real life game of Chess.
Still better than being a peasant.
All these relationships and conspiracies both fascinate me and give me a headache! LOL
All those family trees and lineages make my brain hurt! Mainly because they have about 3 names between them. To learn there were 2 Margaret Beauforts at the same time just about finished me.
It would be great to understand how you jump so nimbly through the hoops of titles and bloodlines. You do a brilliant job of it! Always enjoy your videos :)
Right!!!?? So effortless..... ❤🎉❤
An ancestor was bailiff at Hengrave for the 3rd Duke of Buckingham before he was attainted. He was closely related to the Chief Butler under Henry IV who was also a tenant of the Mowbrays and friend of the poet Chaucer. The son and successor of the Bailiff at Hengrave died in 1568 owning the Ellesmere MS.
I am interested in a video on the titles in the peerage. Thanks for all your terrific videos.
Oh yes, please do a video on the peerage.
Staffords, Percys and Nevilles. All schemes, all the time. Nevilles were so bad at it, the family split in two for a while... during the wars of the roses. Half supporting Lancaster, the other half supportive of York.
I believe that Buckingham was involved in the death of the 2 princes. He knew that if they were to remain alive then his claim to the throne would be distant. If Richard 3 had won at Bosworth I am sure Buckingham would accuse him of the princes death, once Richard was tried Buckingham would be free to claim the throne. His bad luck was Henry won and from then on He and his son Henry VIII were suspicious of any one who had a better claim to the English throne, this was why Margaret Pole's family were targeted.
Those poor boys were "in the way" for so many diverse people,they really were unlucky in their place in society. At least their sister could marry the new King and from the sources available it seems they had a happy marriage and we're compatible. Maybe young Elizabeth felt that by having her children inherit the crown it justified the horrid deaths in her family.
❤Catherine how are you now. I want to hear from you.
Until Charles I and the rise of the independent power of Parliament, putting a reigning king on "trial" was not a concept in medieval England. As long as Richard III was in charge, there would be no chance of putting him on trial. The only way to get him off the throne was the way that Henry VII did, that is by rebelling and invading with an army. You'll notice that other deposed kings, even those subsequently killed, weren't put on trial.
@@janebaker966 Eliizabeth of York and Henry VII united the White rose of York and the Red rose of Lancaster.. The Tudor Queen Elizabeth I was called the Rose without a Thorn.
@@prarieborn6458 no Elizabeth the first was the virgin queen: rose without a thorn was Katherine Howard 5th wife of Henry the 8th
Lies, Spies and gossip truly the coin of the realm in the Tudor court
What an absolute roller coaster of up-and-down in-and-out lords and ladies in kings and queens
Would definitely love a video about the peerage
I too would like to know more about the English peerage. Many thanks for all your work on these great presentations.
I am doing my family history and just found out that i am a direct descent of the Stafford royal line. These videos helped out alot. Thanks.
Love starting my day w some Dr Kat
Fascinating, and beautifully told.
Excellent Dr. Kat 👏🏻
yes, please expand! your videos are fascinating and informative
Excellent, as always. 👌Thanks for posting.
Thanks for guiding us through the maze of bloodlines and bloodlust. In the memo to Wolsey when HVIII instructs him to institute surveillance on his buddies, it struck me that the “see how they react to the news” {paraphrasing} could be read as ‘let them KNOW they are being watched’ and see how they react. Possibly telling Wolsey to see if the rats scurried to one or another bolthole? Just my initial take. Thank you again!
I'd be interested in the reasons why someone was given a title, maybe grouping people in different categories. Heck, you could even do a tier list :P
Wow, I really enjoyed this episode 😍
From what I've read or heard it was very easy to be considered a "traitor" in many of the courts of England. So many people inter-related and with royal blood flowing through their veins would be seen as a threat, especially if those same persons believed they had a rightful claim to the throne. I don't know that the Dukes of Buckingham were a particularly traitorous bunch as much as they were an incredibly ambitious bunch--a dangerous quality to have.
This is all so fascinating to me. I discovered I’m a direct descendant of the Stafford’s you mentioned in this video just yesterday. Very cool.
Yes, please !! Would so appreciate knowing more about the peerage and how it all works!!
Great informative video. Many thanks
Love this channel. Thank you for doing this
I'm so pleased you are enjoying my content, thank you very much!
I would really appreciate a video on the peerage!
Regarding the painting you showed of Edward Duke of Buckingham - there is a copy of this painting in the Wetherspoons public house in Brecon (close to where I live) as Edward was actually born in Brecon Castle, a few hundred yards up the road from the pub.
Just a bit of trivia 🏴
Yes please more information on the peerage!
Another yes to English peerage and titles from me! I want the knowledge to help with my nobles in TTRPG settings :)
You are such a fascinating teacher Dr. Kat. Big fan here 😊🙏🙏🙏♥️
ooh these are my mums ancestors, weird but cool to have you telling me their story
Yes to a video on the peerage!
Would really like to hear about The Beauchamp family from the beginning, because my great grand mother was a Beauchamp at birth and married a Belanger in the 1800's. I am looking to find which line she is from. Thank you. I do enjoy your program.
Still loving your work
This family tree makes me want more family trees
Coming from Australia we don't get a lot of old British history without great long searches most often starting with your TH-cam posts
I'd love to see more family trees with highlighted historical events for that family, not necessarily the most famous but especially the families that are centuries old
You are the only site I allow notifications from because they just melt my butter
Can't wait for your next one and if I ever get back to Britain, I hope it coincides with some of your lectures or fancy dress ups in a famous house or place
Keep up the good work and I'll keep asking the universe that you come to Australia on a lecture tour, up here in Townsville, far north Qld, that I can attend. Or anywhere else , just about in this great land
PS
Just a thought. How have the Titled effected Australia
(I could go on with endless list that I'd like to see and here from you, but so far you've done very well at exposing great history to date
Blessings and love on your journey
Absolutely fascinating, as always. It is difficult to say whether a family had a tradition of being insincere, or merely suspect due to circumstances. As a descendant of the Stanley family, perhaps I should say no more! LOL
But seriously, every time I see or hear a mention of the Field of Cloth of Gold, I keep hoping perhaps you’ll do a video on that particular event. Thank you for so many interesting and thoughtfully crafted history lessons. Looking forward to the next!
I guess it would freed on itself as well. If you’re never trusted and always an outsider because of this you’re probably more likely to dislike or not have great loyalty or trust for the regime.
Ooh yes, can I add my voice to the clamour for a video on the peerage please? I love your channel.
I enjoy your videos.
Best wishes !
THANK YOU DR. KAT. PLEASE DO SOME MORE HISTORY ON CATHERINE OF ARAGON. HENRY DID HER WRONG AND HE GOT PAID BACK 10 FOLD. SHE HAD TOLD ANNE BOYLAN THAT HENRY WOULD TIRE OF HER AND HE DID. SI SAD.
I subscribed after realizing I binge watch your videos, I enjoy them so much! I am interested in a lot of historical events of various countries and how they historically and politacally influenced each other. I enjoy your explanations about various topics on Tudor times and before what gives a broader picture of the life in these times. Besides being educational it's very entertaining to me and I learn so much. Thank you so much!
Didn’t Henry VIII have a d’alliance with the Duke of Buckingham’s sister during the early years of his marriage to Catherine of Aragon? I recall it being a confusing sort of bedroom farce, with a friend of Henry’s pretending to be the the lover, so as to cover for Henry, and the sister’s husband packing her off to a convent. Am I right, or dreaming all of this?
Thank you 🙏🏻
Hello dr kat I only discovered your channel around a month ago .
I love history especially the Tudors .
I find your videos fascinating .
Thank you for bring history to life and sharing your knowledge and the facts ❤❤❤😊
Thank you for your wonderful videos. Have you reacted to "The Six Wives of Henry VIII" 1970 starring Keith Michell and "Elizabeth R" 1971 starring Glenda Jackson? I would be very interested in your thoughts about those productions.
I'm a new subscriber, I really enjoyed this video, very complicated but really interesting
Funnily enough I am a descendent of these Stafford’s. It’s cool to get to learn my families history.
Dr. Kat, You hit the nail on the head in the last two paragraphs of your talk. I think the Staffords were simply trying to stay alive and pass on the family name and fortune in, shall we say, uncertain times? It must have been next to impossible to navigate the Tudor and York courts, never mind the Wars of the Roses. Sometimes I wonder if the people of the 15th and 16th centuries had any regard for life at all. They killed each other a lot, a third of the women died in childbed and communicable diseases were, simply, out of control. With all that going on, what the heck? Why not hang draw and quarter for the viewing pleasure of the crowd? I think the Staffords' strategy to staying alive was in marrying well, keeping their noses as clean as possible and hedging as many bets as they could in terms of which "side" was the one who were doing the majority of the slaying. That takes espionage without being caught, keeping two armies ready, one for each "side" of a battlefield, having as many children as possible and solid "turn about is fair play". Strategic marrying was Margaret Beaufort's stock in trade and she died in her 80's having seen a son and grandson become king and having founded many churches and a university or two. Staffords be danged, Margaret Beaufort beat them all at their own game.
I liked the family tree pics - helped me understand what you were saying :)
Would love to learn more!
Ive only recently discovered the insane history of my stafford family.
I think that the Staffords probably thought that the Tudor claim to the throne was flimsy (as it most certainly was !!), and that the general population would rise behind anyone powerful (who had a better claim) should that person start a revolution. Sadly, for the Staffords, the English people were tired of war and terrified to make any moves. Why should the farmers risk life and limb to back yet another claimant, one who might not be a superior master ? He's like the guy who stands up at a meeting demanding rights for the workers expecting support from his fellow workers and hearing only crickets (it has happened to me). Silly man should have taken the temperature of the kingdom before sticking his neck out.
Oh, yes please -a peerage lesson would be super helpful (particularly for this yank!)
I'd like the video you mentioned at the beginning about peerage etc.
My last Stafford ancestor was Elizabeth Stafford, daughter of William and Dorothy. She married Sir William Drury.
I have always wanted to know more of the titles, never got taught the significance of it, would be good to have someone compile them all to one video ❤️
I'd love a video on the peerage!
Thanks!
Thank you so much!
I think a video on the peerages would be both very interesting and very useful for many! 🙋🏾♂️
Hello ,and thank you for all your so very informative videos.I will welcome,everything and anything you will upload.keep up the wonderful work ...lady
if absolute power corrupts absolutely, you could posit that the Staffords were corrupted by proximity...of royal descent, but just a hair's breadth from the throne, and after the machinations of the Wars of the Roses could just as easily have ended up there themselves. how tempting must it have been to attempt that final step?
I’ve just started my subscription, thank-you for your promotional code. 🤘🏻🧡
Yes please, would love to get a better understanding about titles/peerage, etc 👍🏼
Thank you for the info on this video. I am a desendantof the STafford family. Nice to get some history on them.
Yes do that 👍🏼. Peerage and Heraldry would be wonderful
Yes, Heraldry would be wonderful.
For those of us not English that would be brilliant so love your channel regards from Ireland
Yes would love a video about the aristocratic families
2:55 yes please Dr Kat.
ETA, I just realised how old this video is! It only showed up in my suggested videos today!
You've probably already talked about the titles.
I would very much like it if you could make a video on the peerage.
Wonderful video!! It makes me think we just don’t have enough information about the relationship between Henry and the Duke. 1 year is just to fast. The Butchers Son may have had info not available now 😕
BTW- nice lippy!!
Good evening Dr. Marchant,
I hope that you are well. I have been, for a long time interested in understanding how Their Graces The Dukes of Norfolk were able to remain Roman Catholics yet remain as the premier dukedom of England and have roles of such high ceremonial importance.
I thank you for your work. I have enjoyed watching your videos.
Please make a video on titles in the Tudor period! That would be great :)
Is there a link to show all the family trees? Surely it would be huge .... but who's related to who is absolutely fascinating! Truly putting into perspective of why persons made certain choices!
coming out of the War of the Roses- you pretty much had to suspect anyone of Royal blood... I think Henry VIII learned from his grandfather's failures and didn't give many 2nd chances.
Hi Dr kat
Dr. Kat, as an American the titles and ranks of nobility are almost always challenging to me since there's nothing quite like it in the U.S. So, yes, if you're willing to provide a video about it, I for one will be quite happy about that! Thank you!
Thank you Dr. Kat for another helpful video. I wonder how many others owe their family knowledge largely to the records the lords they served left for us? In the case of our Payne’s, it began with service under the Duke’s of Lancaster followed by the 3rd Duke of Buckingham, the Earl of Ulster and Ormond. The more I learn about these peers, the more I learn about my own family.
It appears then that William Payne of Bury and Nowton, Suffolk, was made to be Bailiff at the Manor of Hengrave while the 3rd Duke was a minor. That being the case, I assume William would have had been answerable to the King in his office as Bailiff. After the Duke was attainted, Williams son, Henry Payne (d. 1568) was Bailiff under Sir Thomas Kytson (d. 1540) and died leaving the ELLESMERE Chaucer to Sir Giles Alington.
Now the Payne trail moves to John Payn (d. 1402) who was an early retainer of the Duke Lancaster and life-long friend of the Geoffrey Chaucer. John was made Chief Butler of England in 1399 and Thomas Chaucer succeeded him in that office.
The History of Parliament and other records show that in 1410 John Payn’s son, Robert Payne and his 1st cousin, the MP Edmund Winter had purchased the Manor of Hengrave- where William and Henry were later Bailiffs- but connected to Norfolk cousin John Payn, the Chief Butler, who was friend of Chaucer himself.
This is interesting enough in itself for us. However, I firmly believe there is great influence revealed here with another man named Payn and his daughters, Philippa and Katherine, who became the wives of Chaucer and the Duke! It suggests the Duke had known the Paynes through his mother in Hainault and grown up with them around… It certainly seems to be what the records are telling us anyway…
If anyone else out there is struggling to make sense of their family through the eyes of lords they served, I would like to connect with them in hopes of learning from one another as it goes far beyond genealogy at this point.
Such interesting family history.
I think I'm glad to be American with only 247 years of history! Thank you for the information. I enjoy your videos.
Oh lord the first 2 you talked about were my Grand fathers. This is all surreal to me after finding this out 2 years ago.