The Exeter Conspiracy: True Traitors or Falsely Framed?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ก.พ. 2024
- Let’s take a look at the Exeter conspiracy and all those it destroyed…
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Intro / Outro song: Silent Partner, "Greenery" [ • Greenery - Silent Part... ]
SFX from freesfx.co.uk/Default.aspx
Linked videos and playlists:
Reginald Pole: • Cardinal Reginald Pole...
Elizabeth Barton: • Elizabeth Barton: Holy...
Pilgrimage of Grace: • The Pilgrimage of Grace
Vicar of Hell: • Sir Francis Bryan: "Th...
Images (from Wikimedia Commons, unless otherwise stated):
Detail from King Richard III, Queen Anne, Edward, Prince of Wales, Margaret, Countess of Salisbury and Edward, Earl of Warwick after an unknown artist (possibly early 19th century). Held by the National Portrait Gallery.
Portrait of Edward Stafford, 3rd Duke of Buckingham, by an unknown artist (1520). Held by Magdalene College, Cambridge.
Portrait of Catherine of Aragon by Lucas Horenbout (1525). Held in an unknonwn location / collection.
Portrait of Queen Mary I by Master John (1544). Held by the National Portrait Gallery.
Elizabeth Barton, the "Maid of Kent", executed because of her prophecies against the marriage of King Henry VIII of England to Anne Boleyn. Engraving from the History of England (1793-1806), based on a painting by Henry Tresham.
Portrait of Henry VIII by Hans Holbein the Younger (c.1537). Held by the Museo Thyssen-Bornemisza.
Screenshot of www.british-history.ac.uk/let...
Portrait of Reginald Pole by an unknown artist (after 1556). Held by the National Portrait Gallery.
“The Pilgrimage of Grace 1536” by Fred Kirk Shaw (1913). Held by the Lancashire Museums.
Procession for Edward’s baptism. Held by the Royal College of Arms. London.
Portrait of Nicholas Carew by Hans Holbein the Younger (1532-1533). Held by Drumlanrig Castle.
Screenshot of www.british-history.ac.uk/let...
Copper engraving of the execution of Margaret Pole from the "Review of Fox's Book of Martyrs" by William Andrews, 1826.
Quoted texts:
Eltham Ordinances - www.british-history.ac.uk/let...
Hazel Pierce, ODNB entry on Margaret Pole.
Howard Leithead, ODNB entry on Thomas Cromwell.
Stanford Lehmberg, ODNB entry on Nicholas Carew.
Also consulted, were:
Other relevant entries from The Oxford Dictionary of National Biography Online.
#Tudor #History #Treason - บันเทิง
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I think Margaret Pole was very likely framed with planted evidence by Cromwell and then left to suffer Henry’s zeal for avenging himself on Reginald. Poor lady.
😇Margaret Pole did her level best to stick up for her family against what seems like a stacked deck of vested interests. Henry was so fanatical about succession and about right religion? was he in possession of his faculties? He was still able to weild power however tyrannical!
countess magaret pole was a relative of henry 8th...
one of many executions of his own relatives , during his rule...
@@marvellousmrsmollerI think that athletic injury, during jousting, played no small part in his later behavior. Now we call it CTE, then it was "The King Is Always Right".
Well, there's some Tudor drama that's been strangely ignored by TV.
Hilary Mantel did an amazing job with her fictionalized dramatic account of Cromwell!
The 3rd part of Hilary Mantel's trilogy is being filmed now, I believe.
Treat TV as a spark only, something to spark interest in specific characters. But even documentary films can't cover every interesting thing. But reading books gives you a better understanding, not just of the period, but also how historiography works. What stood out to me, what TV doesn't really cover is how people you see in paintings, all serious and solemn, who look like seasoned courtiers... didn't really know what they were doing or were legit stupid. And they show you everyone being all curtsies, but it was less about "I wish to express my deepest respect" and more like "I'm afraid you're going to kill me". Aristocrats honestly seem to me more like mobsters with fragile egos talking about family and honour (pride is a much better term, not what we call today honour). Maybe I'm misinterpreting some things, correct me if I'm wrong, but based on the books and shows I've seen, these are the things that stood out to me as different: real life vs TV.
Actually it hasn’t..get off social media and watch the good shows…wait, what am I saying 😁
@@nanettemorton4054 I am so glad. The books and the mini-series have been a real treat.
I don't think Reginald Pole really cared about any consequences. I think he was still angry at his mother for leaving him. Thank you for a delightful presentation, I truly enjoyed it. 🎉❤
🫅 The two Henry Tudors had a policy of removing anyone with even a distant claim to the throne, which suggests to me they were well aware of how flimsy their own blood claim was. That said, Henry 8th did have Yorkist Plantagenet blood through his mother, the daughter of Edward 4th, whereas Henry 7th didn't have even that.
Assuming, of course, Edward IV was a Plantagenet.
That is believable, however, knowing that your only heir would have enemies, or claimants..well, what would you do?
@WhiteCamry Very true , even Edward IV's legitimacy has been questioned. It's said his mother threatened to say he wasn't her husband's son at one point. 🙂
I think that due to the tenuous claim of Henry VII, Henry VIII decided that his relatives with a better claim would always be a danger to the Tudors. Too bad he didn't seek to unite any of his children with those claimants to reinforce the Tudor position instead of removing most of them. Thank you for a marvelous presentation, Dr. Kat. ♟⚔🪦
That scenario is a "What if ?" 😊 we can wounder What if he'd have married his children off to those relatives he felt were a threat to his claim and murdered ???
I do believe that Henry was trying, in his own revolting and despicable way, to ensure that there were no threats to his son’s reign. It always comes back to Henry. Whether it was Wolsey or Cromwell, or anyone else for that matter, at the end of the day he was King and nothing was done that wasn’t at his wishes. 👑🏰
Great video....think Henry was cleaning out all possible rivals to Edward, and Reginald Pole really ticked him off.👑👑👑👑🏰🏰🏰
To your questions at the end of the video: All of the Above. I think HVIII set out to get his courtiers competing with one another instead of him, but as the decades rolled by Moore, Katherine, Wolsey, and many others turned out to be (at the very least) working at cross purposes to him. Then too, he drank his own cool aide with respect to why he was on the throne. His father undoubtedly instilled a good deal of mistrust, not to say paranoia, while he trained him, and the Plantagenet survivors really couldn't wrap their heads around not being the ruler themselves. The Cousins War could easily gear up again ... His court was a snake pit. If he really believed Anne Boleyn betrayed him that probably broke him. At any rate, he spent most of his time after her demise trying to make sure he was the biggest and most poisonous snake in the snake pit. Talk about Karma manifesting in your own lifetime .... I know he was terrifying and very dangerous at the end, but from the safety created by time's march, I feel sorry for him.
I think he knew well that Ann was innocent. There's been plenty of observation about how different his behaviour was when his worshipped young bride Catherine Howard was found to have been unfaithful in his eyes, he was devasted and didn't hide it. It was said with Ann he wore his cuckold's horns remarkably easily, a expression I rather like! 😊
Brava! Absolutely brilliant! Thank you from the bottom of my heart! I agree that Cromwell had set poor Margaret up. That piece of cloth would have been discovered the first time around. Sadly, her horrific execution may have been due not only to Henry’s increasing rage at Reginald, but to Henry’s ever increasing paranoia. After all, Margaret was a Plantagenet. 👑🏰
🗝🗝🗝 some keys for those locked up
Would be interested in a video about the sinking of the Mary Rose!
Nice followup on the brilliant Cecils installment.
I don't think it mattered if someone was an actual threat to Henry because even a rumor of a rival was something he couldn't have since it could suggest that he was vulnerable.
👑 🏰 Fascinating video! I don’t think I’ll ever get tired of the Tudor Era 🏰 👑
Another great video illuminating the complexity of the time and the challenges for historians. 😄
Hey just watched you on a doco Six queens. Felt like a friend on tele. 🤗
Re: Henry paying a lot of money for Margaret's clothing a short while before beheading her.
Not all that confusing. That was his sadistic playbook. He loved making his victims feel safe before murdering them. Honestly, he played this trick so often I think he got a twisted thrill out of it. The man was a monster.
Thank you for the interesting video. As always the Tudor regime was so complicated and divisive.
Love your podcasts. Thank you for producing them. ❤. Fantastic enjoyment 😊
Castley is my new favorite word 🏰
Another great video, Dr. Kat! Cheers from Wisconsin, USA. 👑🏰🫅
I think Cromwell fabricated the tunic. 🏰 I also think Henry was just very angry with Reginald, who was certainly implying treasonous things. Margaret being 'the last Plantagenet' as well as being a staunch supporter of Catherine didn't help. 👑
Greetings from wine country in California. Really enjoy your program. Thank you!
Another enlightening video- thank you!
This was really interesting as usual! I didn't know about this conspiracy at all so this was completely new information for me!
Joined the live near the end. Will rewatch.
Enjoy all your videos Dr K!!! ❤❤❤
🏰 Very interesting questions for us. Thank you.
Nice follow up on the cecila bit! You're the Best girl😊😊😊😊❤❤❤❤
Absolutely loved it ❤🤴👸
LOVE your content! Looking forward to it 😊😊😊😊❤❤❤❤
👑 👑 👑 Fascinating! Thank you!
Very good video! Thank you Dr Kat! 😊😊😊😊😊❤
I would love a video on the White Ship disaster.
I am never sure if I should be terrified of Cromwell, or impressed but his machinations. Probably both!
Neither. History is full of Machiavellian characters, but if you look closely, they tend to lose. Machiavelli himself failed... miserably... He fell out of favour and his book "The Prince" was his attempt to regain influence, but he failed. He spent the last years of his life crying about being left out of the power circles. Machiavelli's model prince, Cesare Borgia, the pinacle of plotting, died in an ambush he could have easily avoided and he was left naked with only a mask on his face (he probably had syphilis). That's how he ended up. The Chinese equivalent of Machiavelli, Shang Yang (legalist philosopher, author of The Book of Lord Shang, Machiavelli would have agreed with his ideas) ended up dead and torn apart by horses.
These plotting masterminds tend to end up in a bad place. There's only so much plotting and scheming you can do, before you create too many enemies and they will come for you. They seem fascinating, how they manoeuver with intelligence... but only for a while. Many such people overplay their hand. So, I pity Cromwell and other such people. Where did all his plotting and scheming get him? Executed as a traitor after botching a marriage.
Love your videos!
👑 Thank you!
🚧 WARNING for all persons living in the 1500’s. Please do a video on Stephen Gardener.
Looking forward to it 😊
Keep the videos coming 🏰
🏰⛫ I love your videos Dr. Kat! Thank you!
Excellent video 👑
I very much enjoyed this video, as everything Dr. Kat does, so will comment for engagement's sake and leave an emoji🙃😉🤪😜
Very interesting bit of history 👑🏰
Very informative!
Cromwell and Henry were a lethal duo. 🏰🎭🖼️🔗🗝️⚔️
Until Henry decided he could go solo. 🤣
Interesting as always
Love your content
"Ritual Purposes"...I love it 🤣🏯🏰💈A barber's Pole 🤪🤪🤪
Interesting to learn more about the Pole family and their unhappy history - on a frivolous note, 'Warblington' sounds like a name P.G. Wodehouse could have created! I looked it up and it apparently came from a group of Saxon settlers known as the Warblings...🏵
Love your videos Dr Kat. While I don't doubt at least one Pole family member was plotting to take back the crown, sure sounds like that banner found in Margaret's home was planted. I also think Henry viii had a great talent to convince himself that he "believed" what was convenient to his desired outcomes... for example Anne Boleyn's adultery and the Pole "plot".
That illustration of a frantic terrified woman with a man chasing her with an axe was terrifying.
How could such a picture be published when the king was so controlling?
Thanks!
🏰🦄castle and unicorn I think they are both symbols of Royalty. And thank you for another video, your Fan Down Under
I read somewhere that Margaret Pole refused to kneel at the block, asserting her innocence of any treason, which is one of the reasons why her execution was so botched, because the executioner couldn’t behead her properly. Anyone know if this is true?
Yes, she moved as the executioner went to behead her and caught her on the shoulder/neck area, then the poor woman took off around the scaffold and I'm not sure but heard she had to be held down to be finished off but it took alot of chops. It sounds horrendous, not a nice way to leave the world 😢
One more reason to not believe those who try to rehabilitate Cromwell’s reputation.
Even though she isn't tech apart of this video, I wonder why no one touches on Margaret Clifford, Countess of Derby. Another Tudor relation who fell into a "conspiracy" concerning Sorcery. But good video on the Exeter Plot!
🫅 I think that, as is the case of so many of Henry's executions, the motives are complicated. I'm sure he was raised to believe that the children of the former Duke of Clarence were suspect. I'm certain that Henry felt betrayed that he had funded Reginald's education only to have him show loyalty to the Catholic Church rather than him. I'm sure there were other factions at court that worked against the Pole family for their own reasons. I don't think any of Henry's decisions were ever simplistic.
I’m allegedly a direct descendent of one of the victims/perpetrators of the Exeter Plot, and this fascinates me! Can you recommend some additional reading on this topic?
I think it was a number of factors that led to Henry VIII "purging " the old factions. I'm certain Cromwell filled his head about the danger that the Roman Catholics and those of Plantagenet blood posed. Henry VIII was very paranoid and I imagine his paranoia worsened with age and with the birth of his son Edward. Henry would not tolerate any opposition and he wanted to ensure that his son had a smooth succession. I don't think that Margaret Pole herself posed any threat to Henry or his family, but her son Reginald Pole was kicking up larks on the Continent and speaking against Henry and his Reformation. I've always thought that Henry executed Margaret Pole in order to send a message to Reginald Pole and to the Pope. No matter how loyal, how highborn, past service, etc. no one is safe if they do not conform to Henry's idea of church and state. If it had been me advising Margaret Pole, I would have advised her to go to the Continent with her son as soon as the Great Matter started occurring. It was too dangerous for her in England as a Plantagenet princess and Catholic.
Always love it
Love your channel..🏰🏰
I think it was a combination of Cromwell and Henry. Henry wanted to make sure Edward wouldn't have anyone to threaten his reign. Cromwell wanted to remove some of his enemies. Sounds as reasonable, in the Tudor era, as anything else. A very interesting presentation. You are always very interesting.
Didn’t Lady Margaret's grandson disappear into the Tower around that time? His name was Henry Pole the Younger. It's pretty eerie that her grandson disappeared the same way that her cousins, Edward V and Richard of Shrewsbury did.
How does the number of people Henry had beheaded compare to the Kings and Queens that came before and after him? Which Monarch beheaded the most women in number or percentage? What age were the youngest to be beheaded?
Holiday dinner in the Tudor Household must have been “fun”. The law make it treason to “imagine the monarch’s death” is clearly the most ‘useful’ law Henry ever passed (though executing your fall guy is just sloppy). Imagine if it was still in place today! I think there is a point to be made that Henry was only a generation removed from the worst dynastic conflict EVER to hit England. I’m sure that loomed large in his subconscious when dealing with relatives who seemingly had treasonous intentions… ⛓️👑💈
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Another excellent video. I knew Margaret Pole had been executed but not the details of her trial. Certainly looks like a fit up.👍
Yes- HVIII wanted to stabilize his son’s reign. Yes- Cromwell may have seen an opportunity for removing threats and it happens to coincide with Henrys fears. Yes- the people who went to the block probably had plans because of stronger blood ties. And yes, some of the innocent got caught up and lost their heads.
When you play Game of Thrones you either win or you die…
I think it was Thomas Cromwell to start the cleaning up of the court. He could bring people he trusted in the court and had more control of it. Or so he thought. 👑🏰
I like how for all his planning and scheming, Cromwell was taken down by the thing he least expected: a botched marriage.
@@octavianpopescu4776 Yes, that is true. He did not plan for the cultural difference between the English and a little German court. Anna of Cleves had so drastically different upbringing than an English Lady as you can get.
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Royalty
It seemed Margaret Pole had a mark on her back from birth. Thank you for continuing to give these well searched presentations. 👸🤴
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King Henry wanted to get rid of anyone who could have any claim to his throne . He wanted rid of all courtiers who supported Catherine of Aragon. He was also very paranoid. 👸🏻🤴🏼🏰❤
🏃♀I posted a picture of Margaret Pole running from the horribly inept axe man. As for my opinion about the Exeter plot-- I question the sanity of just about anything Henry did after all those head wounds damaged his personality. And he created his own hell, what with having children of different mothers with different religions. I am sure that there were plots a plenty against him. I am happy that I would have been a peasant, and not at all involved with royal intrigue!
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I think an interesting question has to be just how open to manipulation was Henry? There seems to be several incidents throughout his life that beg this question to be answered if there's a question of who orchestrated them. Just how easily led was he? And why? How much was he motivated by entitlement, pragmatism or fear in each case? He often seems to me to be something of a coward who only deteriorated with age.
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King 🤴 Henry VIII is the most infamous of all the Kings of England 🏴! I think he was possibly guilty of everything despicable that happened during his reign 👑! But, I’m biased against him 🤷🏼♀️.
Thank you for this great video 🥰
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🎣🪧 I found some poles.😊
🏰 👑 🤴- and found three axes, so spoiled for choice.
It was likely a child king would happen...always a tough time. However, I think Cromwell using this clear out his own rivels.👑
Hey I made the live.
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It wasn’t that long since the country had been in turmoil over royal family members backstabbing each other for the throne. If Henry was to die when Edward was a child it would be very possible for him to come to harm from family taking the throne with a stronger claim. That would be motivation enough.
It wouldn't surprise me if the execution of Margaret Pole was Henry the 8ths way to get at Reginal Pole a he couldn't reach him in the continent.
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👑! Henry viii!