I find the Howards in general to be fascinating! The fact that they are STILL the Dukes of Norfolk and Earls Marshal of England throughout everything over the centuries is crazy
I visited their home in Yorkshire. The domed block "temple" area was most impressive. The display of wealth through the centuries and how well they are doing presently was disconcerting for a non-Brit (not that robber barons in other countries aren't still doing well for over a hundred years). I think it was due to the coronation displays there (and all over the country), but the class system was very much visible, and rather than being impressed, I was despondent. At least those who can afford to see it now can enjoy the artworks that they funded through the years.
My son, an American living in London, by chance met and enjoyed a long conversation with Phillip Howard of Naworth Castle. He found him to be charming and very down to earth. My son had no idea who he was until as they were leaving Howard gave him his card.
@@cmcg9035Why would you be despondent over so much wealth? It's no different from very rich families in other countries, except that they tend to be MUCH older here in the UK. Wait a few centuries and then 'new' wealth won't be new any longer 😊 The 'landed' or aristocratic families in the UK often tend to see themselves as custodians of our history and culture, and are often very humbled by it.
* A new baby boy is born in the Howard family * - His name is Thomas. - But we already have a Tho.. - HIS NAME IS THOMAS!!!! 😂😂😂😂😂 Honestly, I think it's impressive she survived that long, the Howard's were a dangerous faction in Tudor court and even more dangerous was to be a Howard in Tudor court 😂
In my father's family, you have to know who the mothers are to trace any family history. In my great-grandfather's generation, there are three James Burtons, all about the same age . When my youngest sister was born, Dad nixed mom's first choice, saying there were enough Lauras already.
I've been doing some of my own family geneology - my family shares that lack of imagination My family tree - Mary married John and had children named Mary and John. These children Married people named John and Mary and everyone had children named Mary and John *head desk*
@@suzannegabriel3299 Checking my family line I have found: John, John, John, John, John, John, John, etc. Female side: Katherine, Katherine, Katherine, Katherine, etc etc etc. I made the effort to open the Bible and get something new. I guess that old school way of doing it makes monograms easier.
Mary Howard and Henry Fitzroy were married at 14, but considered too young, to consummate the marriage. Wiser heads prevailed ! If she attended at the birth of Elizabeth, which is possible, but not known, that might have put her off, the desire to consummate any union, forever! She fought bravely, for her due, and ended up, comparatively wealthy, in her own right! It's remarkable that she compiled a book of poetry, from many notable contemporaries, and medieval poets, including commentaries. What a treasure! She died so young, and still, apparently, a virgin. A very interesting, young Tudor lady! And one, about whom, I knew nothing! I don't know, if she would have been a good Queen, but she certainly had potential! 👰🌹🫅
Also, the duke might've kept his daughter and Fitzroy separate, deliberately. Fitzroy was a bastard - a royal bastard, but a bastard nonetheless. Should Anne Boleyn fail to give Henry a son (which is exactly how matters panned out), and, with Princess Mary having been bastardized by her father, being the sole male out of the king's progeny would raise Fitzroy's - and Fitzroy's spouse's - standing, considerably.
One thing I've been pondering is what happened to monks and nuns after the dissolution of the monasteries. Is it something you'd consider making a video on? I just think it's an under discussed aspect of Henry VIII's reign and the human consequences would make for an interesting video.
Agreed! Also all the people the monasteries supported - orphans, etc. Henry VIII’s dissolving the religious houses destroyed a vital aspect of community support.
@@veronicaguyader9997 Other bastards, more like - Dame Catherine Knollys (née Carey), Mary Boleyn's daughter, perhaps. Her daughter was Lettice Knollys, who was married to Robert Dudley, Elizabeth I's would-be paramour, the Earl of Leicester. Lettice was the mother of Elizabeth's _other_ would-be paramour, Robert Devereux, the Earl of Essex. Queen Elizabeth II was Mary Boleyn's descendent via her mother, Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon. This is a more likely Henrician bloodline than anything to do with Fitzroy.
What a fascinating lady! I don't think she would have ever been Queen, as Henry Fitzroy's claim would have been too dubious, and Princess Mary would have pushed her claim with the backing of the Holy Roman Emperor, and the Pope. Mary Fitzroy might have been a powerful figure, with her husband and potential children, in a succession crisis, though, as she obviously had a lot of grit and determination. Great discussion! 💪 🦸♀️
🕯I’m pleased to learn more about Mary Howard than is typically offered. I am particularly impressed by her resistance to both penury and remarriage. Considering the “baked apple” quote from her father regarding Mary Tudor, saying no to him must have been as dangerous and difficult as resisting Henry Tudor.🍎
Speculative history is fascinating. It’s interesting thinking about how the scope of the world could be different from one change. Thank you for taking us on this journey Dr Kat.
I enjoyed the whole heart ❤️ felt video,❤ crown 👑 of course and because of her Anne Boleyn, influence,that wouldn't happen. Women's work was so very much harder,however , Elizabeth's reign was a success or so it would appear to us now. I think we may yet have a queen on the throne of England. Thank you for the video
Fantastic video, Dr.Kat as always!! Best way to spend my Friday and kickstarting my weekend. It was wonderful to learn more about Mary Howard Fitzroy, a historical figure I did not know a whole lot about. I am not sure why I never made the connection that she is the daughter of the scum bag, Thomas Howard the Duke of Norfolk. I am not a fan of his at all as you may very well gather. Something I find so remarkable about Tudor history, despite it being a profoundly patriarchal society, there are so many pivotal women who play such important roles. And, in many respects, were indeed women ahead of their times. I think it is really amazing that Mary planted her feet firm in refusal to wed again and seeking what was rightful her inheritance. And, honestly...Giiiiirrrrrlllll, she dodged a bullet with that potential second marriage to creepo Tommy Seymour. Good for her!! 🏰🕯💍📖👑📖💍🕯🏰
I have always marveled at the intellect and the shrewdness of this most centrally located family I the times of Henry the eighths times. How carefully they had to think and double think to survive let alone thrive. It’s easy to see how the family still is around even to this day. Amazing!🌟🍀🍒🍒🍒🍒
I wonder if Henry putting Katherine of Aragon aside made others, like Thomas Howard, bolder as to taking his mistress to court. As to Mary Fitzroy making a good queen, she certainly knew what she wanted and what she was willing to put up with. I wonder what kind of a monarch Henry Fitzroy would have been. 🏵
🌹 she seems like a very strong willed woman of the time. You are very lucky to have chosen this path in life, surrounding yourself in such an interesting subject. I envy you greatly.
Thank you for this video on Mary Fitzroy. She seems to be a person of learning and integrity. And she managed to survive through the tumultuous reigns of the Tudors. 🌹📗📘
Always enjoyable and well researched. Your information is so well presented. Forgive me if I have missed this but my question is, when Henry V111 dissolved the monestaries , what happened to the monks and nuns? So many must have been very elderly. Thank you.
Dr. Kay, you are absolute amazing! Thank you for always bringing me wonderful history content!! I want to thank you for always being there for me when I need to escape reality for a bit!❤
She was incredibly lucky to have even survived for as long as she did during the Henrician regime, especially after all of the falls from grace that the Howard family suffered. 🌹🏰
Fantastic video. I love this sort of speculation--there seem to be so many "what-ifs" that could change everything when it comes to this particular family!
Great video. Have you done or will you ever do a video that talks about what life was like for high up people sent to tower of London. I can't imagine they was treated to badly? Or maybe they was. Would loce to watch something on this xx
She seem to be a fine woman with a strong intellect. I think she would’ve been a great queen more the question is what kind of king that Fitzroy would’ve been. We don’t seem to know much about him.❤
I don’t know how well things would have worked out if Mary was Queen. Having her father in jail as a religious dissenter probably would have caused trouble for the monarchy. I could see the faction of Protestant courtiers not trusting her because of it (meanwhile the Catholics would HATE her because of her connection to Anne Boleyn) 👑🥀
She was definitely a strong woman , which was not desired, in a woman in this time. I ❤️ that she had the courage of her convictions and stood her ground re her jointure and her proposed marriage. A true Howard. Had Henry Fitzroy become king, Mary would have been a strong Queen but strong in her religious belief.
Henry was (physically) strong, intelligent, and the most educated British monarch of all time to that point (and not surpassed by many subsequent British monarchs). Fitzroy looked very much like Henry. Whether the son inherited other traits of the father, I can't say. However, one thing we can say about Henry VIII: he had quite an impressive set of qualities (fecundity aside).
She seems to have been an intelligent and strong minded lady. Good qualities for a queen I think. If Henry had survived, it's possible that Edward would have named him his successor instead of Jane Grey
I have often wondered what that cap is on Fitzroy's head is that supposed to be the type of cap that he might have worn going to bed or is this perhaps a cap that he wore while he was ill perhaps due to the loss of hair? Does anyone have any idea? I would like to know.
Dear Dr. Kat: ❤ your channel! Your TH-cam award is hidden 😟! You earned that 100k award and it should be displayed proudly! The books and whimsical tchotchkes can go elsewhere. My 2¢ 😁
She definitely dodged that Thomas Seymour bullet! Good call, Mary!
I find the Howards in general to be fascinating! The fact that they are STILL the Dukes of Norfolk and Earls Marshal of England throughout everything over the centuries is crazy
Absolutely! They seem to get along by going along, but only reluctantly. Topic for a future video!!!!!🏵🏵🏵
@@arcola44❤
I visited their home in Yorkshire. The domed block "temple" area was most impressive. The display of wealth through the centuries and how well they are doing presently was disconcerting for a non-Brit (not that robber barons in other countries aren't still doing well for over a hundred years). I think it was due to the coronation displays there (and all over the country), but the class system was very much visible, and rather than being impressed, I was despondent. At least those who can afford to see it now can enjoy the artworks that they funded through the years.
My son, an American living in London, by chance met and enjoyed a long conversation with Phillip Howard of Naworth Castle. He found him to be charming and very down to earth. My son had no idea who he was until as they were leaving Howard gave him his card.
@@cmcg9035Why would you be despondent over so much wealth? It's no different from very rich families in other countries, except that they tend to be MUCH older here in the UK. Wait a few centuries and then 'new' wealth won't be new any longer 😊
The 'landed' or aristocratic families in the UK often tend to see themselves as custodians of our history and culture, and are often very humbled by it.
* A new baby boy is born in the Howard family *
- His name is Thomas.
- But we already have a Tho..
- HIS NAME IS THOMAS!!!!
😂😂😂😂😂
Honestly, I think it's impressive she survived that long, the Howard's were a dangerous faction in Tudor court and even more dangerous was to be a Howard in Tudor court 😂
Different mother wanting to name her son after his father, irrespective of the fact that he already had an older son and heir named Thomas.
@@tessat338 I know, I just think it's funny how many Howard men were named Thomas 😅😊
In my father's family, you have to know who the mothers are to trace any family history. In my great-grandfather's generation, there are three James Burtons, all about the same age . When my youngest sister was born, Dad nixed mom's first choice, saying there were enough Lauras already.
I've been doing some of my own family geneology - my family shares that lack of imagination
My family tree - Mary married John and had children named Mary and John. These children Married people named John and Mary and everyone had children named Mary and John *head desk*
@@suzannegabriel3299 Checking my family line I have found: John, John, John, John, John, John, John, etc. Female side: Katherine, Katherine, Katherine, Katherine, etc etc etc. I made the effort to open the Bible and get something new. I guess that old school way of doing it makes monograms easier.
So many learned women in the Tudor period ! It is lovely to learn about them 🤓
Mary Howard and Henry Fitzroy were married at 14, but considered too young, to consummate the marriage. Wiser heads prevailed ! If she attended at the birth of Elizabeth, which is possible, but not known, that might have put her off, the desire to consummate any union, forever! She fought bravely, for her due, and ended up, comparatively wealthy, in her own right!
It's remarkable that she compiled a book of poetry, from many notable contemporaries, and medieval poets, including commentaries. What a treasure!
She died so young, and still, apparently, a virgin.
A very interesting, young Tudor lady! And one, about whom, I knew nothing!
I don't know, if she would have been a good Queen, but she certainly had potential! 👰🌹🫅
Also, the duke might've kept his daughter and Fitzroy separate, deliberately. Fitzroy was a bastard - a royal bastard, but a bastard nonetheless. Should Anne Boleyn fail to give Henry a son (which is exactly how matters panned out), and, with Princess Mary having been bastardized by her father, being the sole male out of the king's progeny would raise Fitzroy's - and Fitzroy's spouse's - standing, considerably.
I believe that as a virgin, she would not have been allowed to attend the birth of any children. At least, from my understanding. 😊
One thing I've been pondering is what happened to monks and nuns after the dissolution of the monasteries. Is it something you'd consider making a video on? I just think it's an under discussed aspect of Henry VIII's reign and the human consequences would make for an interesting video.
Very good suggestion.
Agreed! Also all the people the monasteries supported - orphans, etc. Henry VIII’s dissolving the religious houses destroyed a vital aspect of community support.
She stood strong when the odds were against her, she deserves her 🌹
I was _literally_ just wondering, “were there any female Fitzroys?” And yeah- apparently there were, by marriage! What timing!
Look up Charles II he made a few
Brava! I didn’t realize that Henry Fitzroy was married. I always look forward to your videos! 🌹
I believe this is the line that makes it possible for direct descendants of Henry VIII to exist.
@@veronicaguyader9997 Other bastards, more like - Dame Catherine Knollys (née Carey), Mary Boleyn's daughter, perhaps. Her daughter was Lettice Knollys, who was married to Robert Dudley, Elizabeth I's would-be paramour, the Earl of Leicester. Lettice was the mother of Elizabeth's _other_ would-be paramour, Robert Devereux, the Earl of Essex. Queen Elizabeth II was Mary Boleyn's descendent via her mother, Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon. This is a more likely Henrician bloodline than anything to do with Fitzroy.
I think Mary would have been a Fascinating Queen for Henry Fitzroy!
🏰 My face smiles when I see a new video from Dr Kat.
I love ❤️ way you put that: my face is smiling, too!
🥀👑 You’re never sure about their leadership until they assume the role. She was quite determined.
So excited , Dr. Kat' s content is a continuing education course. I love pre - Restoration English history.
Precisely right!!
Mary was wonderful. She had a mind and wasn't afraid to use it. I believe she would have made a fine queen.🌹
🌹👸 Another delightful counterfactual history! Thank you for taking us on an imaginary journey into history that never was! 😊
I LOVE your counter-factual histories and the possible options they offer!
What a fascinating lady! I don't think she would have ever been Queen, as Henry Fitzroy's claim would have been too dubious, and Princess Mary would have pushed her claim with the backing of the Holy Roman Emperor, and the Pope. Mary Fitzroy might have been a powerful figure, with her husband and potential children, in a succession crisis, though, as she obviously had a lot of grit and determination. Great discussion! 💪 🦸♀️
🕯I’m pleased to learn more about Mary Howard than is typically offered. I am particularly impressed by her resistance to both penury and remarriage. Considering the “baked apple” quote from her father regarding Mary Tudor, saying no to him must have been as dangerous and difficult as resisting Henry Tudor.🍎
I appreciate hearing about her, i feel like she gets lost. Good for her on not getting remarried to that creep!
I love that you talk about people that are normally overlooked by everyone else!
Speaking of the Howards, a video about the office of the Earl Marshal would be interesting. 🏵🏵
Speculative history is fascinating. It’s interesting thinking about how the scope of the world could be different from one change. Thank you for taking us on this journey Dr Kat.
Loving the floral top 🖤🌺🖤🌺🖤🌺🖤
She was scholarly and didn't let her relatives push her around. Good for her.
I enjoyed the whole heart ❤️ felt video,❤ crown 👑 of course and because of her Anne Boleyn, influence,that wouldn't happen. Women's work was so very much harder,however , Elizabeth's reign was a success or so it would appear to us now. I think we may yet have a queen on the throne of England. Thank you for the video
Love your sense of humor and subtle facial expressions. Ha! Very, VERY interesting video. Thank you.
Wow she’s someone I’ve never learned about ! I like her
Really interesting proposals, Dr. Kat! ❤💯🏰👑⚔
An excellent history of a lesser known figure
Another very interesting look at the past. I enjoy these lectures so much.
Omg! I can’t wait to watch this video. I love your account so much. It’s helped me so much with my homework haha
How these people are so interconnected through the children of various monarchs is fascinating.
Fascinating as always❤
🌹another interesting video! Thanks Dr Kat
I'm obsessed with your what-ifs in history.
Fantastic video, Dr.Kat as always!! Best way to spend my Friday and kickstarting my weekend.
It was wonderful to learn more about Mary Howard Fitzroy, a historical figure I did not know a whole lot about. I am not sure why I never made the connection that she is the daughter of the scum bag, Thomas Howard the Duke of Norfolk. I am not a fan of his at all as you may very well gather.
Something I find so remarkable about Tudor history, despite it being a profoundly patriarchal society, there are so many pivotal women who play such important roles. And, in many respects, were indeed women ahead of their times.
I think it is really amazing that Mary planted her feet firm in refusal to wed again and seeking what was rightful her inheritance. And, honestly...Giiiiirrrrrlllll, she dodged a bullet with that potential second marriage to creepo Tommy Seymour. Good for her!!
🏰🕯💍📖👑📖💍🕯🏰
Love the Spring look today Dr. Kat! You look so soft and pretty with your hair down and the florals! ❣️🏵
Love your videos, Dr. Kat!!! Always fun to learn something new
I have always marveled at the intellect and the shrewdness of this most centrally located family I the times of Henry the eighths times. How carefully they had to think and double think to survive let alone thrive. It’s easy to see how the family still is around even to this day. Amazing!🌟🍀🍒🍒🍒🍒
This is a fascinating possibility
🌺🌺🌺🌺🌺🌺🌺
Great ❤❤
I wonder if Henry putting Katherine of Aragon aside made others, like Thomas Howard, bolder as to taking his mistress to court. As to Mary Fitzroy making a good queen, she certainly knew what she wanted and what she was willing to put up with. I wonder what kind of a monarch Henry Fitzroy would have been. 🏵
Love your content! Thanks For this ❤❤❤❤❤
🌹👑 she certainly seemed to be strong character and an interesting proposition IF she’d become queen
Listening twice. ❤ quite fascinating!
I will be too! Fascinating and unknown to me before!
🌹 she seems like a very strong willed woman of the time. You are very lucky to have chosen this path in life, surrounding yourself in such an interesting subject. I envy you greatly.
Thank you for this video on Mary Fitzroy. She seems to be a person of learning and integrity. And she managed to survive through the tumultuous reigns of the Tudors. 🌹📗📘
Always enjoyable and well researched. Your information is so well presented. Forgive me if I have missed this but my question is, when Henry V111 dissolved the monestaries , what happened to the monks and nuns? So many must have been very elderly. Thank you.
Oh no, want more! 😂 🥀
You deserve lots of support from TH-cam ❣❣❣❣❣❣
Dr. Kay, you are absolute amazing! Thank you for always bringing me wonderful history content!!
I want to thank you for always being there for me when I need to escape reality for a bit!❤
The Howards are a fascinating family.
Another completely enjoyable video! 👑👑🍀🍀🍀
She was incredibly lucky to have even survived for as long as she did during the Henrician regime, especially after all of the falls from grace that the Howard family suffered. 🌹🏰
Great story -- thanks Dr. Kat!🌹🗼
👑🌺💪🏽
I think she would have made an excellent queen.
A suburb of Melbourne, Australia is called Fitzroy - and a famous football team!
Fantastic video. I love this sort of speculation--there seem to be so many "what-ifs" that could change everything when it comes to this particular family!
Thank you, Dr. Kat. I love that you cite sources.
Haven't watched this yet because my fav creators are doing lives but I can't wait. This is totally new info - I think lol 👸
Great video. Have you done or will you ever do a video that talks about what life was like for high up people sent to tower of London. I can't imagine they was treated to badly? Or maybe they was. Would loce to watch something on this xx
Great video, as usual!
Very interesting video 🏵️🌹👍
Thanks!
Dr. Kat, if you haven't already produced a video about the Devonshire Manuscript, I think many of us would definitely like to view one.
Beautiful lipstick looks great
Loved this one! 👸🏻
👍👍always a pleasure.. thanks, Dr. Kat🔥🔥😂
Thank you. ❤
🏵️ lovely video thank you
fascinating Dr Kat.
Fabulous. So much to ponder. 🏰 😎
Love your videos Dr.Kat 🌹 Always fascinating 🎉 thank you 😊
She seem to be a fine woman with a strong intellect. I think she would’ve been a great queen more the question is what kind of king that Fitzroy would’ve been. We don’t seem to know much about him.❤
🎉 Great blog
Great info!
I don’t know how well things would have worked out if Mary was Queen. Having her father in jail as a religious dissenter probably would have caused trouble for the monarchy. I could see the faction of Protestant courtiers not trusting her because of it (meanwhile the Catholics would HATE her because of her connection to Anne Boleyn) 👑🥀
So interesting!! 😊 Thank you 🩷
Thank you 🎎
I actually had never heard of Mary Fitzroy. While I don't know if she would have been a good queen, she would certainly have been an educated one! 🌹
Can you do a video about the first Queen of Ireland Máel Muire ingen Amlaíb
❤❤love it
It sounds like she would have been a shrewd and powerful queen!
Love your content
Thanks👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼🌹
She was definitely a strong woman , which was not desired, in a woman in this time. I ❤️ that she had the courage of her convictions and stood her ground re her jointure and her proposed marriage. A true Howard.
Had Henry Fitzroy become king, Mary would have been a strong Queen but strong in her religious belief.
So easy to learn from you !
🌹 strong woman!
I think she was a very smart woman for keeping her independence. As dowager duchess she was far more her own person than as the wife of another noble.
The idea of a strong, intelligent, educated queen to help balance out any traits of Henry's inherited by Fitzroy would be very appealing.
Henry was (physically) strong, intelligent, and the most educated British monarch of all time to that point (and not surpassed by many subsequent British monarchs). Fitzroy looked very much like Henry. Whether the son inherited other traits of the father, I can't say. However, one thing we can say about Henry VIII: he had quite an impressive set of qualities (fecundity aside).
As usual great topic ❤❤❤
🌹 love this channel
👑
She sounds very strong and intelligent. Probably would have made a good queen, if allowed to do so by all the men around her. 🏵️
She seems to have been an intelligent and strong minded lady. Good qualities for a queen I think. If Henry had survived, it's possible that Edward would have named him his successor instead of Jane Grey
I think she was an amazing woman and did herself no favors by trying to get her worthless father out of prison where he belonged. Brava Mary! 🏵
🏵️ With her intelligence came a tendency to speak truth.
I have often wondered what that cap is on Fitzroy's head is that supposed to be the type of cap that he might have worn going to bed or is this perhaps a cap that he wore while he was ill perhaps due to the loss of hair?
Does anyone have any idea? I would like to know.
Dear Dr. Kat: ❤ your channel! Your TH-cam award is hidden 😟! You earned that 100k award and it should be displayed proudly! The books and whimsical tchotchkes can go elsewhere. My 2¢ 😁
Could you do a show on why Mary Tudor, and your fave Charles Brandon did not like Anne Boylen