Aegon's Prophecy Failed on House of the Dragon | How It Could've Worked | Game of Thrones Prequels
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- Many were surprised when Aegon's Prophecy was part of Season 1 of House of the Dragon. By Season 2 though it was clear that the use of it was mishandled with a poorly thought out and badly written plot.
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I liked the idea of Jace accepting the prophecy by going to the wall.
Something that has gone terribly wrong with Daemon vision is that the whole point of GRRM about prophecies is that they're always cryptic, and very often misunderstood/misinterpreted, which leads to terrible consequences. Here the vision is perfectly clear and shows exactly what's going to happen over hundreds of years. It would have been much better to have a confusing vision which still lead to a change of personality for Daemon, but much less drastic, and based on uncertain interpretations of the vision. Even better if he actually misinterpreted the vision which led him to change _and_ reunite with Rhaenyra.
Here the choices of the writers (not only the visions) go directly against a lot of Martin's themes and it really made the season hard to watch at some points.
It was all too literal. I couldn't believe they showed Dany in that vision after the way most fans were upset with how her story ended.
That's a great point on prophecy. It's all very gray in Martin's world. Here they're even stupidly dropping spoilers for the end of their own series.
What a great idea! It also keeps on with the spirit of the books which is always about conflicting stories, perception vs reality.
Yeah, this is something I forgot to point out to a few people in my latest comments about the show, but also highlights why so many book readers are frustrated with this season and it may not be something those who only watch the show can fully understand. They're taking a source material, a foundation already built and altering the fundamental layers of that world.
@@bandoogiemanz I mean those with sharp minds seem pissed off. lol I have not read Fire & Blood and I have been VERY pissed off by Season 2.
Aegon's prophecy should've been left out. They couldn't even tell the story from the book correctly so they definitely didn't have the skill to take on prophecy too.
And the prophecy is shit, a northen little girl saves the world not jon "cuckgon" snow. Actual brain dead writing decisions.
I didn't think about it in the first season but keeping the prophecy a secret between only the ruler and the heir is dumb.
I think most of us go into shows willing to cut them breaks on small things, but when it comes apart and you can't trust them to tell the story anymore then you look at everything more closely.
Especially if it’s a world ending threat like bro, if the north is able to have the white walkers and such as a part of their culture to the point of Stark’s making sure to send their own men to always defend it, why the fuck isn’t everyone else given the same knowledge and preparation? it’s just absolute insanity and terrible writing.
Everything revolves around this prophecy. It gives almost every character no agency. Daemon, rhaenyra, Jace, Alicent, alys, helaena. It was okay when it was subtle. How many prophets do we need in this show?
Last season I thought it was a subplot that would have no impact on the main story. This season it just took over everything. Now most of the main characters, aside from Aegon, are motivated by a tale that has no impact on this story.
I guess the producers of house of the dragon kinda forgot that Arya Stark kills the night king not a Targareyan.. so this storyline is a complete waste of time.. in fact the only person this prophecy has anything to do with in Game of Thrones is stannis... 😂
I just love they made Rhaenyra's entire personality and justification to rule based on the prophecy, while she's the same person that didn't give a damn and just let herself get impregnated by a knight, birthing bastards. If the prophecy would mean so much to her, like the writers want you to believe, she would take her responsibilty to birth rightful heirs more seriously. Which is why it feels even worse when she tells Jace about the prophecy, since both of them know that he's not even the rightful successor.
And why wouldn't she ever question the prophecy or discuss it with others? There was that weird scene at the end of Season 1 where she mentioned it to Daemon and then looked surprised that he didn't know. You mean to tell me you've been married to him for years and this is the first time this incredibly important thing has come up?
I fear ASOIAF has lost the plot instead of letting people be people (petty, greedy, proud, loyal, etc.) I want everyone to have their own goals and personal beliefs as to why they take the sides they do, and are not trying to be saints. It’s why I think Daemon is so popular in season 1.
Exactly, it's one of the reasons too why Stephen King's novels have been so popular. He's excellent at character creation, and they all have flaws.
I like the idea of having all the Targs learn about the prophecy, but only Viserys truly believes it. Then Jace does too after spending time with the Starks. It doesn't get in the way of the main story.
If Fire and Blood didn't need a single mention of a prophecy to work, the show shouldn't have needed it either. But they did and now it's just a crutch to justify the characters shitty actions when they'd be way more interesting without that prophecy as an excuse.
this!
I actually didn't mind that Viserys revealed The Song of Ice and Fire to Rhaenyra. But they should have stopped there. Not go back to it a gazillion of times. Or any other prophecy or visions. And yea the Alicent misunderstanding of what Viserys said was trash.
And that’s a major problem with the new trope today’s writers have created. Female characters can never do anything wrong. If they do something considered bad it’s because of a man: a man lied to them, a man was forcing them, a man ect ect.
It’s such poor and lazy writing. It makes characters have no drive, will, or ambition of their own. They become one dimensional, flat, boring, and painfully predictable.
The new poor writing tropes are so over used that you can already tell what a character’s behavior and story will be just by their appearance alone. It’s sad. The audience deserves better.
That's why there's no comparision between the women in GoT and the ones we suffer with in House of the Dragon. If these people were writing the early seasons of Game of Thrones they would have had Cersei and Catelyn teaming up, because the men were all bad.
Interesting how this knowledge survived considering Maegor was never anyone’s heir and neither was Jahaerys. Seriously doubt Aegon the uncrowned got a chance to tell either of them about it 😅
Edit: Maybe he told Rhaena and she told Jahaerys? Seems unlikely tho
They definitely didn't sit down and figure out how the prophecy passed down from Aegon with the pattern being king to heir. It's against human nature too that people wouldn't share it with others. Rhaenyra was married to Daemon for years and she didn't mention it to him until the Season 1 finale.
The thing that makes no sense about the Targaryens keeping the prophecy a secret is that it doesn't serve them at all to do so. By letting other people know, they have a legitimate reason to keep the Targaryens in power, and can unify the realm against one threat. They could help the realm prepare, and if it was more well known then maybe the Watch wouldn't be as neglected in the future and people would be waiting for the white walkers, rather than not believing they exist and shrugging off anyone who sees them like Ned did in the first episode of GOT. Why keep it a secret at all? All they are doing is keeping the information to themselves which makes it far more likely to be lost should the ruler and heir die before either can pass it on.
I think it works fine enough if you assume HotD leads to a more book accurate future. I think it’s a nice way of tying the time periods together and there’s a tragic element of maybe the prophecy and the duty of the targs being lost due to this petty war, leading to their eventual corruption and the mad king. Also I think Alicent’s mishearing of viserys didn’t matter. He father snd co were plotting to install Aegon regardless. I think portraying actual three dimensional characters who try to do the right thing and mess up is more compelling than the cartoons we got in Fire and Blood
Anyone who reads the prophecy from the source material knows that Jon snow isn’t shit,
the prophecy goes:
“When the RED STAR BLEEDS and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst SMOKE and SALT to wake dragons out of STONE.”
Depending on the minerals they carry comets burn in different colours upon entering the atmosphere, Sodium or SALT burns bright orange leaving a RED tail.
The Red comet or "bleeding star" happens during Danys case when she wakes the dragons out of STONE eggs amidst SALT being the red comet and SMOKE from the pyre fulfilling the prophecy.
Daenerys Killed her husband Drogo out of mercy and burned him in the pyre that gave birth to dragons, Daenerys drew Dragons from the fire As Kinvara says: "the dragons are a flaming sword, for Dragons are fire made flesh a gift from the lord of light."... just like Azor Ahai Sacrificed his loved one to draw his flaming sword "Lightbringer".
Not only that prophecy but several other prophecies are all about her:
"Ziry kivio dārilaros" The Rightful Heir That Was Promised:
-"Hin ñuha ānogar majigho ziry kivio dārilaros, se zȳhon suvio perzō vāedar issa.
From my blood comes the princess that was promised and hers is the song of ice and fire.
-"Meri kīvio dārilaros ōz maghagon kostas".
The Princess who was promised can bring the dawn.
"Dārilaros" is the same word used for both "Crown Prince" or "Crown Princess" it also translates just as "Rightful heir" so in this case its a Crown Princess, because its Daenerys who brings the dragons back into the world.
“No one ever looked for a girl,” he said. “…The error crept in from the translation. Dragons are neither male nor female, Barth saw the truth of that, but now one and now the other, as changeable as flame. The language misled us all for a thousand years. Daenerys is the one, born amidst salt and smoke. The dragons prove it.” Just talking of her seemed to make him stronger. “I must go to her. I must. Would that I was even ten years younger.”
- Aemon Targaryen in A Feast for Crows.
To be a crown princess you must be born to the King and Queen.
Jon was never a crown prince he is a half blood prince at best and he is more Stark than Targaryen, he is not the prince because Rhaegar was never king and had already been deposed as heir by the time Jon was born, Daenerys was born a Crown Princess!, born to a Targaryen King and a Targaryen Queen she is the Royal Princess, named heir to Viserys who was named "Rightful heir" by King Aerys... even before Rhaegar fell at the trident, he had already been deposed in favour of Viserys, so it couldn't be Jon even if Jon-stans refuse to see it...
Daenerys is "Azor ahai." reborn and the red comet proves it.
"The Dragon has 3 heads"
This doesn't only refer to her Targaryen sigil which is a 3 headed dragon, but she is the literal representation of her house sigil, Daenerys being the Dragon or mother of dragons, and the 3 heads of the dragon being: Drogon, Rhaegal and Viserion.
Together they are 1 Dragon, 3 Heads.
Aegon the conqueror foresaw the future through his dreams as we now know, he probably saw a vision of Daenerys emerging from the fire with her 3 dragons just like Daemon did, which would explain why he chose the sigil of house Targaryen to be a 3 headed dragon.
It was always about Daenerys.
Daenerys "STORMBORN" is the "Stallion who mounts the world."
The Stallion who mounts the world prophecy goes:
-"As swift as the wind he rides, and behind him his khalasar covers the earth, men without number, with arakhs shining in their hands like blades of razor grass. FIERCE as a STORM this prince will be. His enemies will tremble before him, and their wives will weep tears of blood and rend their flesh in grief. The bells in his hair will sing his coming, and the milk men in the stone tents will fear his name." The old woman trembled and looked at Dany almost as if she were afraid. "The prince is riding, and he shall be the stallion who mounts the world." According to the prophecy, the Stallion is the "khal of khals" who will unite all the Dothraki under his single khalasar and ride to the ends of the earth. The prophecy states this Prince will be the "khal of khals, and all the people of the world will be his herd." they thought it was about her unborn child, but she is the one who fulfilled this prophecy as well, Daenerys is the promised princess who united not only the realms of Westeros but she brought the people from Essos with her to fight in the north, uniting all the people of the world, they all become her herd, she unites all the realms of men.
Daenerys Targaryen is called "Stormborn" because she was born during a great storm that raged for the entirety of her birth, not because storms were common at the time. The historical records recount that a terrible storm struck Dragonstone, the island stronghold of House Targaryen, on the night Daenerys was born. This STORM was so FIERCE that it was remembered and recorded in the annals of history, leading to Daenerys being given the moniker "Stormborn" to commemorate the dramatic circumstances of her arrival into the world. The STORM itself was an extraordinary event, even if storms were not typical occurrences on Dragonstone, and this unique detail from Daenerys' birth story is what led to her being known by the epithet "Stormborn" throughout her life.
Daenerys fulfils several prophecies there is no way around it the white walkers are the ice and she is the fire, she is the chosen champion of R'hllor and the Dragons prove it.
And if thats not enough proof for you George himself confirmed that the white walkers are the ICE part and Daenerys is the FIRE part of the song of ice and fire...
Because its not Ice fusioned with fire like some people think its about jon snow, its ICE vs FIRE its DEATH vs LIFE. the Starks live by the wall but they do not represent ice they are wolves. the great other represents ICE the night king is the great others champion and R'hllor is the counter side to the great other and R'hllors chosen champion is Daenerys.
Daemons vision proves it was all about the red comet being the important event that brings back dragons, and Daenerys does that.
Its not about Ser Arthur Dayne's blood on his own sword.. like please its way too far of a stretch like trying to force-fit a defeated narrative of Jon being the one no matter what...even though all the 8 Requirements for it are pointing at Daenerys and Jon only has 4.
The Undying tell Daenerys obscure prophecies:
"Three fires must you light, one for life and one for death and one to love.
Three mounts must you ride, one to bed and one to dread and one to love.
Three treasons will you know, once for blood and once for gold and once for love."
The Last treason for Love could be the one from Jon Snow.
Jon snow is nothing but a bastard, a traitor, and if the books end anything like the show did, he will be reduced to a kinslayer...
It’s interesting to note that many who support Jon Snow as the "Prince" seem to be show-only viewers, Stark fans, or those who jumped on the bandwagon after binge-watching the series. They missed much of the intricate detail and gradual buildup that comes from experiencing the story at a more measured pace. Understanding the true "Prince That Was Promised" doesn’t require an in-depth hermeneutic analysis of A Song of Ice and Fire-it simply requires paying attention to the details and savouring the story as it unfolds. The narrative clearly sets up the White Walkers as the "Ice" and Daenerys as the "Fire," making her the Princess That Was Promised.
In the bigger picture which a lot of people seem to be missing, without Daenerys there would be no dragons, and without dragons there would be no magic to bring Jon snow back from the dead and everyone would be dead specially Jon Snow.
Dany essentially paid up three lives in exchange for hatching the dragons. However it should be noted that in the Red God prophecy it is described “waking Dragons from stone” … so it can be assumed that the dragons aren’t actually dead, but sleeping in the stones merely in stasis waiting for that spark or life energy to bring them out. and they start reacting once they come into Daenerys possession. so its not just the Dragon eggs alone, its Daenerys with the Dragon eggs what makes things start to happen, once born the magic becomes even stronger which is why the undying try to steal them and kidnap her
Pyat Pree, tells Daenerys that his magic was reborn when the dragons were born, that it is strongest in their presence, and that the dragons are strongest in hers. Using magic, he chains Daenerys, telling her she will stay with him for an eternity to fuel his magic.
So The dragons eggs alone have no power its Daenerys presence what makes the fire magic ignite.
Quaithe, is a mysterious figure from Asshai. she tells Dany that Daenerys was the cause for the return of magic and implies it is because Daenerys gave birth to the dragons, thus implying that the birth of dragons reignited magic.
the birth of the dragons coincides with a resurgence of magic in the world. Magic had been waning for a long time, and the dragons' hatching appears to be a catalyst for the reawakening of magical elements in the story, including the return of other magical creatures and phenomena.
Daenerys hatched them by being around them for long enough. They were getting warm to the touch before Khal Drogo had his issues. They were cracking, hatching before Mirri Maz Duur was consumed by the flames.
Alicent believing viserys’s final words in that groggy state was so dumb . Even grand maester pycelle was smart enough to not look too much into Jon arryns final words as he was in a sick dying state .
My least favorite use of the prophecy in the show is how it gives Rhaneyra “divine right of kings” as a justification for going to war because pacifist rhaenyra could easily just surrender her claim if she wants to avoid bloodshed. Even if she’s ultimately executed before getting the throne, she ends up vindicated anyway because it’s still her bloodline who ends up on the throne in the end.
Yes, and it creates a lot of problems too. If she's a pacifist then she should'nt be so dismissive of Otto on the bridge at Dragostone. To fight for the "greater good" she should be explaining the prophecy and trying to find a way out of the situation then.
I like the Helaena scene as a concept but i agree that it's just dropped on us and we're supposed to just accept it without any sort of plausible build up because it's cool. I mean, yeah she has dragon dreams, bus is that supposed to translate to weirwood greenseer powers?
And she does this on a balcony, not even near a weirwood. One of my frustrations with season 1 was that they didn't delve into Helaena's visions more, and never developed her character. This season they didn't touch on the visions anymore until they just dropped it on us in the finale. Writers have to do the work to get a character to a certain point, otherwise it's ridiculuos.
Imagine chasing a prophecy generation by generation that doesn’t just make your descendants bring the long night (by the stupid wight hunt)but ends your house.
It's hilarious that they decided to link their series to the failed GoT ending. But considering the other story choices they made this season, not surprising.
From king to heir... But the heir of aenys didn't succeed him, and maegor didn't had an heir... Wouldn't the prophecy be lost by then?
Yes, which is why they still had room in Season 2 to make it that other Targaryens knew, like Rhaenys. But they kept it as a king to heir secret which doesn't makes sense.
Oh wow, good point that the prophecy might have united the squabbling siblings. I didn't think of that. I mean, obviously they couldn't do that because without the infighting there would be no war, but it's a good reason not to include the prophecy.
My absolute obsession with this world's history and lore makes me unable to enjoy anything without immediately picking up on continuity errors. The moment the prophecy was shown on screen, my first and only thought was "Okay, how how exactly did Viserys come to know about it." I mean sure, Jaehaerys could have told him after Viserys was named heir in the great council. But how did Jaehaerys find out? He wasn't Maegor's heir, neither was Maegor Aegon's or Aenys' heir. Aenys could have told Aegon the uncrowned, but Maegor killed him. Aegon I could have told both Aenys and Maegor. However, A; There's no way Maegor told Jaehaerys about it, and B; Viserys specifically said "Its been passed down from *King* to *Heir* since Aegon's time". And again, Maegor was not Aegon I's Heir.... It just doesn't add up.
As someone else into the lore too, I'm getting closer and closer to your approach. During GoT I gave them much too much of a break when things began to decline in Season 5. I felt that adaptations couldn't be perfect and was willing to wait it out. But starting this season I just had it. The Blood and Cheese adaptation that too many defended was terrible, and a sign of what was to come. With the plot of Alicent being held, and waiting for Helaena to arrive, all of that suspense, and then making her choose a son....it's just incompetence and a lack of creative instinct that turns that story into something else.
@@reelworld1 Cutting out characters and plotlines or drastically changing those plotlines was the downfall of Game of Thrones, and it will be the downfall of HOTD. I don't expect a perfect adaptation, like you thought. Unfortunately, that's just not a realistic hope. Especially from what is essentially a history look in Fire and Blood. But they changed so much that didn't need to be changed it's inexcusable. The way they try so damn hard so cast Rhaenyra and Alicent in as positive of light as possible pisses me off to no end. She was NOT the hero of the story. There is no hero to the story of the Dance. The Prophecy is the catalyst that made the plot so awful. Instead of having the two actively wanting to fight this war, as it should have been according to the source material. They, specifically Alicent use the Prophecy to legitimize her actions as some noble act.
How do you end the first season with Rhaenyra looking at the camera with rage, looking like she will bring fire and blood to the realm. Then spend the entire second season having her find any and all reasons to avoid fighting...
Small thing but I was hoping to see Ser Harrold Westerling again
I was too. I know the actor was in the horrible third season of the Witcher, but his part isn't large on HotD, you would think they could've still fit him in.
Well said!
I like your version even though I'd rather the vision have never played any part at all. I know it isn't conventional, but why couldnt we just have two groups of morally grey people, do despicable things to each other in a fight for the iron throne just because they desire it? Idk, I had stopped watching analysis videos for few weeks cuz the more I think about this season and where it left the show, the more pissed off I get and the less I care about it moving forward. I'm all but out on future seasons other than to see many of these characters die.
I've seen that point made quite a bit, that people couldn't care less now. It's not where you want to leave your audience as you take a two year break between seasons, and is the complete opposite of where they left off in Season 1. What they don't seem to realize is that you care more for characters that are flawed. Even in GoT I felt bad for Cersei taking the walk of atonement, despite her being one of the villains of the series. Here, as you said, we're just looking forward to seeing most of them die.
Just more crap they f'd up
I don't know, man, I don't know what's wrong with you guys from puritanical countries. I agree with what you said about Alicent's character, but all your nonsense about Daemeon and the sex scene with his mother. In my opinion as an ASOIAF reader, Daemeon's character was the best of this season and the one that most resembles the energy of the books. He was the character who had the most contact with the esoteric and mystical part of the books. The other character that was most similar to the books was Elena.
As for the prophecy and the secret, if you talk to your friends who are occultists, they will agree on the issue of secrecy and knowledge passed down by mouth to ear..
The Targaryens are the ones who have the most to do with magic in the universe of the books. And in this regard, the producers are getting it right with the sword and sorcery theme. And yes, it is blood magic, and prophetic dreams, and incestuous dreams with one's own mother. So get over it, puritanical Christian nerds.
The main problem is it always will remind the fans of GOT finale .
You skipped your meds again.
@@CoastalColin LOL 💯
@@CoastalColin Bro wholeheartedly said that Daemon and Helaena* were the closest to the book. I can't lol