I’m glad you made this video because I bought a older house that was built in the 1920s and I’m trying to understand the electrical system because in one bedroom I have two fuse panel panels but on the outside of my house I have a circuit breaker box. I’m just getting into it so hopefully I can understand the fuses in that bedroom a little better and be able to check to make sure that they are the right fuses. Everything works in the house with the exception of three plugs that are reading 20 V. I think there are a part of the fuse box. All I know is your video was the best one explaining the fuses.
It is hard to find useful knowledge on these other than people screaming “They are old, replace them.” But replacing them is not always an option for budget reasons, and often times it does not need to be done as old does not equal bad. If they are in good condition, and properly used, they can be just as safe as a modern panel. If I had to guess, the two fuse panels are your original main electrical system, the breaker box was added and is now the main panel, and the old system was left intact and reduced to sub-panels. Stuff like lights and receptacles will be in the fuse panel, and things that were added later like larger appliances will be on the new panel. That is speculation without being there to see it, but it is pretty commonplace. Another thing worth noting is screw in mini-breakers. I think I forgor to mention them, but they just screw into a fuse socket and have a resettable breaker, so you don’t have to replace it if it blows. May be a good thing to get to prevent people from putting in the wrong size fuse if it blows in the future; having too large of a fuse installed for the wiring is the main danger of these panels and is completely preventable.
Great video. I have a soft spot for old electrical stuff. I'm not quite sold on the insulation over knob and tube. Personally, I think it's a push by insurance companies to elude coverage. There were many, many houses today that have knob and tube still in use with blown in insulation added in. I can't see that much heat being generated during normal operation simply due to being enveloped in insulation that it would trigger a fire or degrade the insulation faster. There was NM cable at that time with the same insulation properties and you never hear anything about that being covered up. The primary dangers with knob and tube is homeowner modifications, overfusing, and overloading. I feel an unmodified knob and tube systems operating within it's original design and properly fused is perfectly safe, even if covered with insulation. I see it all over the web and TH-cam, people bash knob and tube for unfounded reasons, mostly by insurers and some electricians looking to sell full rewires.
I completely agree. I have no issue with knob and tube, and if I got an old house with it in good shape I would certainly leave it. I would think it would generate LESS heat than modern cable, it is the same size wire and it is separate instead of all the conductors closely packed in one jacket, so the insulation thing wouldn’t concern me, but I would not want insulation over it just for insurance reasons if something were to happen because they look for every excuse to NOT cover you. I don’t just not dislike knob and tube, but I actually like it, it has already and will continue to last longer than the modern stuff, and it was put in with pride, not just some wires shoved in the wall. I would love to see the modern plastic stuff in 100 years, some of the earlier NM cable with plastic insulated wires is already causing issues with the insulation breaking down and since the wires are together, they can short easily. Even if knob and tube had no insulation, it still wouldn’t short or likely cause any issues.
2 new panels just replace with one larger panel . I used a 12 space panel on the one bedroom house in the mountains I also used an eight space outdoor panel which holds the 100 amp main the 50 amp range and the 20 amp pump breakers. the last breaker is a 70 amp main for another sub panel. which is for the central heat and air. the dryer and water heater are inside for convenience. I turn off the water heater when I don't need hot water but a timer is going to be installed later. bottom line the indoor panel has a few mini breakers but if you wire up to the new code AFCI breakers take up one space, there are no mini AFCI that I'm aware of. 73
Correct. Properly maintained vintage service equipment is just as safe or safer than modern stuff is a lot of the time. The only failures these panels will have are due to human error. Sadly humans these days are quite unreliable
@@WalterKnoxAll intentional. Bureaucrats run all American schools. Etiquette, phonics, AP History and writing cursive are just a few of the things that have been taken out of the curriculum.
Great video!! I saw this kinda box on Instagram and was intrigued so I came to TH-cam to learn more about them in case I run into one. Now I know! Thank you
a few things i failed to mention. most older fuse panels would have 2 sets of cartridge fuses, the main fuses and a set of range fuses for an electric range, if the fuse panel is your MAIN panel and you have range fuses, you can put 60 amp fuses in that cartridge and run a sub-panel from there. i find that most old fuse panels, even if once the main panel have been reduced to just a sub panel and a 100 or 150 amp main panel has been installed. i believe that this panel may have been originally intended for use as a sub panel when new, because there are no range fuses, and i do not see a way that you would run a sub panel off of it. the other is that it is 60 amp per leg, meaning that there are 2 legs or phases, each one 120 volts, they go together to become 240 volt for larger appliances. the 60 amp rating is per leg.
A fuse panel like this with just the main cartridge fuses could've been used in a home, or apartment, that had or was to have a gas range. Very early on an electric range was pretty much the only large 220 volt appliance that would require cartridge fuses. If there was a gas range and they didn't anticipate it getting replaced with an electric one they probably didn't feel the need to install a panel with a Range pullout. I don't see it on this panel's diagram, but most fuse panels had taps, or subfeed lugs under the main fuses that could could tap off of and add another appliance or subpanel for additional circuits. This would come directly off the main. Usually in a main only panel like this, the subfeed lugs are between the main and plug fuses. For a small home or apartment, with all major gas or propane appliances and either no A/C, or room air conditioners or a maybe a small central unit, 60 amp could be fine but you still need more circuits to distribute the loads and this panel has no room for expansion.
@@Progrocker70 I run central air, an electric water heater and electric range off of 60 amps just fine, as long as the limits of this old stuff is regarded and it is a small home with a relatively small load it is normally fine. The whole upgrading to a new panel or upgrading your main service is just a big thing the insurance companies use to scare you. The main fire hazard is bad wiring, but I would much rather have a fuse panel than a federal pacific panel (which we also have) but you are correct, the main issue is the lack of circuits in a panel like this one, which is why I find that the service is often upgraded with a new main panel and the old fuse panel reduced to just a 60 amp sub panel, and new circuits added separately to the main panel. As for being able to run a sub panel off the one shown in the video I don’t see revisions anywhere for that. I have more standard panels with the regular 4 branch circuits and the range block, I should have probably demonstrated one of those instead, but I used what I had handy at the time.
@@Progrocker70 I should also mention that we do have has heat and the central air is rarely if ever run and we just cool two rooms with window units, I have never actually tripped the main 60 amp breaker (it is an FPE stablok so I don’t even know if it would) but I am sure it would not be too hard.
@@WalterKnox I think it would depend on the size of the central A/C unit, some require only a 15 amp while others require a 50 amp 220 volt circuit. A small unit or one with an inverter or a mini split isn't gonna consume that much power. A stove is considered a 40-50 amp appliance but that would only be with all of the burners on and the oven on as well, all heating at the same time.
Enjoying your videos. That must have been a knob and tube wire from later on, like the 30s or 40s just before NM and Armored Cable became widely used. I've worked in home built in the '20s and earlier, all knob and tube I've seen was no longer being used, but was remains of an earlier system, was both black insulation, so you couldn't tell which is hot and which is neutral. That stuff can crumble at the slightest disturbance, particularly in overhead lights where people have used 75 or 100 watt bulbs to get more light and over a period of time baked the wires into position.
Yeah, the house I removed this from both of the wires were white as opposed to black, so still couldn’t tell polarity. It was all in good shape and not crumbling or all jacked up.
Hi Walter Great video but I have a question about an issue I have. I purchased an older 1960’s mobile home in good shape and it has a general switch MHS 618 panel box very similar to this one with the exceptions that it has the main disconnect at the bottom instead of at the top and it has 8 round fuses instead of 6 like yours. My issue is someone broke into it and they stole the main disconnect pullout from my box. My question is when I looked on EBay they show several types and I’m needing to know what exactly I need to purchase here do I need a 60 Amp 240 volt or a 60 Amp 120/240 or would the actual main disconnect pull out fuse holder be a 100 Amp one? I am leaning to the 100 Amp pull out fuse holder being that there are 4 fuses per leg and they are using 30 Amp fuses. That way max load per leg would be 120 which would fry the 100 amp fuse. I tried looking online for a General Switch MHS 618 Panel Box like mine but was unsuccessful nor could I find any schematics or diagrams of that model. Any help would be much appreciated so Thank you 🙏! Keep up these excellent videos your a natural and very easy to understand! Take care
Okay, first off... if all of your twist in (round) fuses are of the 30 amp variety, it is likely that someone was having issues with the fuses blowing and put those in place of whatever was there originally. So I would probably recommend getting that looked at unless you know for a fact that the wire they are powering is the correct size to handle 30 amps, because if the wire is not able to handle 30 amps, that is a fire hazard. Looking up that model panel, it does appear to be a 60 amp panel. One thing to remember is that the main disconnect is not going to be the total amperage of all of the fuses added up, there is a thing called a demand factor, basically not everything is on all the time, so we only calculate for a percentage of that load called a demand factor, this is where the main service amperage comes from. Once again that is assuming that all of the fuses should be 30 amps, which I would be surprised if they were. But to answer your question, the main disconnect should be 60 amps. It is most likely This part but don't quote me on that (It looks identical to the one in the panel I was showing in this video, but there is no part number or anything on it) www.ebay.com/itm/175378638408?hash=item28d561a648:g:e1QAAOSwd9tg1lO8&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAsNxgxXVFa%2FpEi1l4iwMDzBTR7Vi1pJK%2FqfWs%2BDfV6NXzvksdfzZbcWjgef%2BDVVblMiFxod90j%2BVyrOZWiFxVcFmMlvgouQiH%2BALQADFAjh7fazXE%2FPRElZOQ6YLB9PGUbBomov1JLhLuzR8%2BSuYTPw3KOfJucFQmKLwddJf4kbRFTft66JJ9eU0HEclFdoNcb9CBcAQ%2F599Im2OkDweCZyQ%2FWqZU%2Ftq0KiK8nbX5vp8G%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9zD2ZyEYQ
@@johnnykurplutzo6789 25 amp fuses I believe are green... Orange is 20 amps... It is sort of difficult to determine the wire size... You could try putting in a 20 and seeing if it blows or not, chances are if it does not then a 20 is just fine. if it blows then you may be overloading the circuit if the case really is that a 20 belongs there... the best thing to do in that case would to be to have someone check it out and tell you what size fuse goes where.
I know the horrors of fuse boxes all too well... grew up in a small mobile home with just FOUR circuits for the whole damn house. We were CONSTANTLY blowing fuses, so my dad started buying slow-blow fuses which were less sensitive. Some people would even shove coins into the sockets...
yeah... they are not dangerous in themselves, but with only 4 circuits like alot of them had they were very easy to overload, then people put in larger fuses and even coins which is even worse, that is when the issues happen.
@@WalterKnox I found your channel because of a comment you made on a video about testing federal pacific breakers. You mentioned about how you made a tester to check each breaker in the panel. I would really be interested in a video where you showcase the tester. I am definitely going to make one of those tester. Thanks, Kevin
I have a 60a fuse panel and the house was built in 1954. It has a main, 6 circuits, and a range circuits. The wires for it are covered in a black cloth type material and then the hot and neutral are covered in plastic like the modern wires. However the main lines coming from the meter base are covered in the material like you were showing and appear to be a 6awg wire. I run the a dryer off the range circuit. The thing about it is my hot water tank has a completely different setup. It has a 50a breaker in it's own box that has no cover mounted about 8" from the main box. We had no idea where the power is coming from that goes to it because we can pull the main fuse in the main panel and the 50a breaker for the hot water heater is still hot. I'm still puzzled where the power is coming from for it. It has the light colored cloth type covering and appears to be 8awg wires. Is it possible someone could have ran those wires from the meter base as well?
It is possible... I am guessing you do not have two electric meters on your house? used to, in some areas they would put the water heater on a meter of it's own and charge a lower rate for it as a way to get people to go over to electric. It is possible that maybe this was the case at one point, and someone removed the meter for the water heater, and just ran the wire into the main meter box. If that is the case, that is not up to code as you are not supposed to have two things under one lug. Also, unless it is a Tankless water heater, or a huge water heater, 50A seems a bit overkill. most of them are around 30A
@@WalterKnox No sir I do not have two meters. I just went and double checked and both the main panel and the smaller breaker box are Cutler Hammer. The breaker box label reads Cat. No. XO-2 50Amp 120v A-C or 120/240v-AC And it does have the same size wire coming into the breaker as it does the main. I'm thinking it could be 6awg. Anyway it has 3 wires coming in and also a separate ground. What I don't understand is that according to the courthouse and deed the house was built in 1954. The label on the inside cover of the main panel is dated March 1956. Now it looks like it would have to have had a different main panel at one point.
Sorry, TH-cam has decided that it is nolonger going to notify me wen I get new replies. yeah, I doubt that it took two years to finish building a house. I am not sure about that then, It seems weird that someone would have replaced a panel that early on... As for your hot water thing, I am not sure. It is hard to tell... there has to be somewhere before the main breaker it is either tapped into or spliced into, I would not worry about it though as long as it has it's own disconnect.
@@WalterKnox in relationship to where the meter is on the outside of the house where the main panel and the separate breaker are located inside the house there is only a distance of 6-9 feet between the two. The incoming wires for both are the exact same size. Just had an idea. The place behind the main panel and the breaker is a closet. The back wall of the closet almost lines up perfect with the outside meter. I'm thinking they probably ran the main line or lines from the meter through the back closet wall to the main panel and the breaker. I cant see them taking the wires up into the attic and back down through the wall. It would've been so convenient to run it straight through wall. I'll end up taking out the back wall it's only sheetrock
this one is most likely from the 60s as it is a bit more modern in construction to some of the old panels I have seen. But I am not sure as I have never researched it.
What you have is probably a 100 or 150 amp panel. What you have is a more modern version of a fuse panel, I believe they were still installed until around mid '70s. Usually with those Wadsworth panels three of the pullout blocks are for 220 volt appliances and the other one is a main for the plug fuse circuits
I live in older apartment. I have bought a portable ac. when it turns on my lights flicker briefly ....is that a fuse problem or just initially when it starts it uses too much power ?
When it first turns on, and the lights dim for a second and then return back to normal, that is fine as an air conditioner just takes a lot of power to start. If they flicker for anything more than a second, or they stay dimmer then too much power is being pulled. In which case a fuse will blow, so as long as the lights only briefly dim when the unit is first turned on, and the fuse does not blow, that is completely normal.
Hello! Great video thank you. I have that same 60amp panel and have questions : the power to part of the home first went out. Then, about a week later, all the power doesn’t work. I tested the 60amp tubes and both are ok. Is there a way to reset this?
I actually just uploaded to my channel a video of the set up at my place ... I took the 60 tubes out to test that’s why they are not in the box. Any ideas why no power here?? Or how I can reset this?
HELP; I removed a blown 15amp fuse. It had no copper on it when removed. There was an adapter left in the socket. I then removed the adapter with great difficulty. Because the replacement fuse I bought didn't fit for some reason. It was too small but looked exactly like the one I removed. NOW no fuse will fit the socket even with a new adapter for the fuse. The new adapter is too small for the socket. I don't understand. It appears I need a larger external circumference adapter. The adapter screws on to the fuse ok. The socket walls are smooth. I wonder how big an adapter is needed to encompass the 15 Amp adapter to fill the space?
@@gingiehughes9575 the walls on the socket are smooth? Do you still have the original adapter? Why did you remove it, it is supposed to stay in the panel. They are very difficult to remove for a reason, there is a good chance you damaged the socket.
Replacing any fuse with a fuse larger is definitely not a good idea. You can find out what size wire it is if you know what you are looking at, but chances are if it is older (which it would be if you have this type panel), it won’t clearly say what size it is. It is just something you learn from doing electric work, you know what size a wire is by looking at it, but if you can’t do that, or you don’t know exactly what you are doing, in which case I would NOT recommend opening up a panel as there are many parts that can kill you. If would have someone look at it and see what size wires they are, and then install “s adapters” which will make it so only the correct size can be used. You could also just put 15 amp fuses in all of the sockets, and if they blow quickly put in a 20, but that is definitely not the best idea. Either way, 30 amp fuses are rarely used in home applications aside from dryers and water heaters.
I’m having trouble finding the one that goes to my laundry room at my grandmothers.. I would love some help to figure out what fuse to replace it’s not getting enough power to turn on the heating element but it powers it’s enough for it to turn on
It is probably in a cartridge, and is one of the two fuses which has failed. If not and it is a plug fuse for some reason, you can see the little metal link is broken through the small window that have.
Without seeing your exact panel and how it is set up, I cannot really tell you for sure as there are many different designs. Is it a cartridge fuse, and are you having issues pulling out the cartridge fuse holder, or the fuses themself?
Hello! I'm hoping you can give me some guidance. My house still has fuses, not breakers. In my bedroom, I have a ceiling fan with a light. All the outlets are working but not the ceiling fan or light. I have tried changing the 15 and 20 fuses, but still no fan/light. Help! What should I try? Single mom here with limited budget so greatly appreciate your advice.
if you look at the little window on the fuses themselves you can see a little metal link, if the fuse is blown then it will be broken, if it is not then it is still good. it sounds to me like the issue you are having is either with the wiring somewhere or the fixture itself, i would say 90 percent of the time the outlets and lighting (in this case your fan) are all on the same circuit for one room, if not all the lighting for several areas are on one circuit. the fan would not be on it's own circuit, so if it were an issue with the panel or a fuse in the panel then there would be other things on the same circuit that do not work as well. is this something that just randomly happened one day or have you been noticing any issues like flickering lights or anything like that? also, have you had any work to any outlets or anything else electrical done? if you have it is likely that some wire has come unhooked as well. one more thing to ask, do you have just one switch on the wall for the fan and the light, then you use a pull chain on the fan itself, or do you have 2 switches on the wall for the fan and the light?
That looks almost like my fuse box, except I brew the glass and blue fuses along time ago. They don't seem to do anything. All my outlets and switches still work with the remaining fuses.. Can you explain why those two fuses are different?
The glass fuses are just an older style of fuse, and the newer ones are color coded. The blue ones are 15 amp, the orange ones are 20 amp, and the green ones are 30 amp. In the case of this panel, that is just what is installed in those particular sockets, but when it is actually installed in a house, the fuse type would be associated with what the circuit it is powering is rated for.
@@williampennjr.4448 Nope. The glass fuse is just an older style of the same thing. I guess if nothing isn't working, than whatever those circuits feed isn't that important, so I wouldn't worry about it.
It depends on skill level. Easy as in just look at it without doing anything, no. You have to either remove the panel cover on the fuse panel, and look at the wire to see what size it is, or open up the receptacle box, pull out the receptacle and then look at the wire to tell what gauge it is. Either way, it won't say clearly anywhere, you just have to kind of know what you are looking at to tell the size.
A fuse port for the knob bulb on mine in this Old build apartment from 1976 is just not working at all. I can’t afford to replace this entire thing, the whole apartment might need rewiring, thats a headache. I need a solution to bring back power to the knob port that brought 2 rooms electricity. How on earth do i do this?? They did use lots of electricity. But what i don’t get is that i never replaced the knobs with anything except 15amp. Likely because theres a lot of modern electronics. What are my options? Realisticlly pls, specify please someone!!
Rewiring is likely not needed. People are afraid of old wiring and like to rip it out just because it is old, sadly this is what most electricians will want you to do. However, knob and tube wiring has not been used since the 30s, so if the building is from 1976, it isn't knob and tube. Altghough your description of "not working" is very vague, so I can't give you a precise answer. Not that I could over the internet anyway.
no, i have removed a couple, but there is not really a "correct" way to do it. they used to make a tool (still may) but it is expensive as hell, and all it does is cut it apart. the only way to really remove them is to break and bend them apart being careful not to damage the socket they are in. this is something that should not be attempted on a live panel, and even then you are likely to cause damage. sometimes you get lucky and they aren't seated in properly, and just twist out, but i have only seen that once.
Frankly, I'd rather have fuses than circuit breakers, a lead link of a certain gage will always melt at a pre-determined amount of current. a home with enough circuits and fuses will never have any problems. also with fuses and a pull-out style mains is nice cuz if u hook up a generator, pull the mains and there is NO way power will leave your home, going up the service drops and using the transformers secondary as a primary. The men who wired homes back in the day were true craftsmen, western union splices, friction tape was used a slightly tarry cloth. Not many ins. companies will allow KnT, maybe for a few months. FPE, yup I had a clothes dryer short out, burned a hole thru the steel backplate breakers never tripped, had a space heater short out at the cord as it left the heater, nice ball of white and the breaker never tripped.
Yep. the only way a fuse will ever fail is open, they don't get welded shut or stuck like breakers (even good brands) do . Knob and tube is great if in good shape, but many are afraid of it. People just see that things are old and think that they are bad, most of the times that is not the case, and many times is opposite from the truth. if in good shape, old wiring is perfectly safe as long as you know and respect it's limitations and work around them in a safe way. Yeah, FPE sucks. I am lucky enough to have one of those things on my house and I have had a few dead shorts. I have never had one fail to trip, but have seen them where I feel they took too long to trip. Although at a friends house I have seen a dead short with an extension cord that got closed in the door, and it melted and did not trip at all, so it certainly happens. On a side note, My grandfather was switching out a light switch for a ceiling fan one time and the wire shorted to the metal box with his screwdriver (yeah, he was doing the work live) it gave a nice spark, but was only an instant. The breaker did not trip... About 10 minutes later after everything was done, the lights went out. The breaker had about a 10 minute delayed reaction to the short. That was a Zinsco panel. You don't any see issues like this with a fuse.
@@WalterKnox yes it is a shame that some have no real respect for 'Lektrizity if it's not in their house. I heard Zinsco has/had aluminum bus bars. That is bad as they will expand and contract enough to cause looseness of breakers where contact is made to the busbars. I have seen some fuse panels that take a smaller cartridge fuse rated 250 volts and there would be 2 in a small bakelite pull-out for a clothes dryer, water heater air conditioner, some multi-wire circuit. I have heard that homeowner ins. companies will not insure KnT wiring, or they will for a short time, fully expecting the homeowner to have it removed.
@@raymondgarafano8604 yeah, it is like that. I think it really depends on the areas. Around here, from the limited experience I have had and heard from friends and family buying houses, you just have to have it checked out, and if it is in good shape they don't seem to mind too much. But a lot of the houses around here are old farm houses and such. Yeah, Zinsco panels are bad, I would actually say worse than FPE. They use thin aluminum bus bars which are supported by brittle plastic, and the breakers clip on with aluminum springs that get weak and then get hot and melt to the bus bars. The reason I say they are worse, is generally FPE panels only fail when there is a fault and they will not trip, Zinsco panels also fail to trip a lot, but they also melt themselves under normal operation.
How can a house lose power in half the house with a fuse panel? The canister fuses? Or multiple fuses blowing? Also are subpanels normal with fuse panel installs or are those something often installed at a later date?
if the subpanel is a breaker panel it was likely installed at a later date, if it is a fuse panel, it could have been at the same time, i can't say for sure. most likely if more than one circuit have died at the same time it is one of the main cartridge fuses, but it is easy to tell if the little twist in fuses are blown by just looking at them, if they have a little black spot, or the link is broken inside, it is blown. if not then it is likely okay. you could try switching your two cartridge fuses around and seeing if stuff that was not working before is after switching them, if so then it is a cartridge fuse, if not then it is multiple of the smaller ones.
OK I need help. All I see is an an area code on the wall where there’s a bunch of old wires and six sets of fuses and that’s it. No other switches. Unfortunately it looks like perhaps a landlord me to replace some of the fuses with bigger pieces because he’s got three of the 25 and three of the 30 doesn’t seem to add up to 60. Now I have a box of 4 of the 15 fuses. should I replace score of them and make sure just adds up to 30? Or do I need to know what goes where I guess I need to speak to the landlord because I’m pretty sure the circuit breaker is in the basement and I don’t have access to that.
First off, if the lights are flickering or anything, you have another issue not related to fuses being the incorrect size. There may not be a circuit breaker anywhere, it isn't uncommon for older houses to have one fuse panel that controls everything int he house. As for adding up to 60, it isn't that simple. Power comes in on two lines, and there is a neutral in the middle. There is 60 amps PER LEG, which means you can have more then 60 amps in total. However, it is likely not right if there are mostly 25 and 30 amp fuses, but you cannot just assume that, more likely than not, if there are larger fuses where a smaller one should be, they were put there because the fuse kept blowing, so someone put a larger one in. This is dangerous and should be taken care of, but it is also possible that the fuses are powering a circuit that really is designed for that much current, you really need to know what is on the circuit and what size wire it is before you start switching things around. It sounds to me like you need to have an electrician come out and at very least inspect the panel to tell you what size fuses you need to have where. They could install "S adapters" which will make it so only the correct size fuses will fit. They also should look at that issue with your lights because I really could not tell you anything over the internet, but it doesn't sound good.
@@WalterKnox thank you so much for answering. I kind of figured it out even when I was asking the question that it wasn’t that simple as changing out the fuses I will have to ask the landlord who I am having a contentious relationship with right now as he is making me a room move and selling my house. He lives downstairs and like I said, I think the box with the breakers is in the basement. It’s a really old house like almost 100 years old I think. The lights have now stopped flickering, because I keep on unplugging things not in use, and when I use an appliance, I am unplugging turn off everything else. I think it’s mainly the air conditioners that are causing problems so like I said, turned off all the lights unplugged everything obviously can’t unplug the refrigerator. I think the hot water heater is also unplugged. I don’t have hot water so as you can see, I have a host of problems that cannot be explained over the Internet. I need help, but I’m going to have to see how I can fix the relationship with the landlord/stepfather first I guess.
@Walter Knox, weve been in our house for a lil over two years and just last month we went through about 5 fuses and nothing has changed about our daily lives and the energy were using. Notnsure what the hell is wrong
It sounds like something is using more power than it used to/is supposed to and is popping the fuse. Is it always the same circuit? What is on the circuit?
@@WalterKnox we have an 8 fuse box, on the left from top to bottom it is 20A, 20A, S15, S15. On the right there is from top to bottom TL15, S15, S15, SL15. The SL15 keeps blowing since June. And it affects the upstairs. After watching your video I notice the TL15 is loose. Like I can turn it to tighten but it doesnt. I just unscrewed everything and put them back. I dont have the reference with me, like your video. Thats my problem too.
@@ReaperWolf68 if you are unsure, I would have someone look at it; although it is hard to find an electrician which won’t just try to sell you a new panel install because it is “outdated.” You likely have something drawing more current than it is supposed to do, or the fuse is heating up due to a poor connection. When it is working, after a while take out the fuse and feel the metal parts (ON THE FUSE, NOT THE PANEL, THE PANEL IS LIVE) and see if it is hot. If it is, you likely have a bad connection.
yes, a GFCI outlet is always a good thing to install no matter what type of panel you have. if your wiring is 2 wire with no ground it is even better idea to install a GFCI outlet at the beginning of each circuit as that way it is up to code to install regular 3 prong outlets down stream.
what do you mean by test the panel? what fuses are blowing, the main 60 amp ones in the cartridge, or the little screw in ones? the panel is most likely not your issue, you are likely drawing too much current on one or more circuits or you have a wiring fault somewhere else.
I looked it up and it appears that P and GP are the same, they are both non time delay fuses, meaning if there is over current they will open almost immediately as opposed to a GT fuse which is a time delay, and will take a few seconds to open. So you should be perfectly fine interchanging the two. As long as you are staying with the correct amperage which in this case you would be.
That is bot something that is standard or could be bought at a store like Lowe’s or Menards. You have to have the correct one for your exact panel, best bet would be to look it up on eBay and see what you can find.
Hey! I’m moving into an apartment with these kind of fuses. The person who lived there before me had multiple types of fuses attached to the panel. Not sure how to figure out if the right fuses are in the right slots, is there a method to use to figure out what kind of fuse is correct for each slot?
without opening the panel up and seeing what size wire is attached to each circuit it is hard. what you could do is unscrew each fuse and see what it is powering, so when the fuse is unscrewed the power will turn off to whatever it is powering, if it is normal outlets it is most likely a 20, if it is lights it is most likely a 15. for an appliance it is most likely a 20 as well, 30 amp fuses are hardly ever used. the best thing to do would probably be to call an electrician so they can look at the wire size and determine what size fuse goes in what slot. then they could insert what is called an S adapter into the slots, that will make it so that only the correct size fuse will fit and nobody can put in the wrong size fuse.
@@WalterKnox thank you so much for the information! I’ve been going crazy trying to figure it out since the fuses seem to blow often and each slot has a completely different fuse and I don’t want to attach the wrong one and cause issues before moving in! I’ll find an electrician, thank you!
@@NessacxBeauty yeah, that is probably the best bet. if too small of a fuse is used it will constantly blow, but if too large of a fuse is used and it really should be blowing but it is not because it is too big that is even worse. so just get an electrician to figure out what sizes are used and install S adapters so the wrong ones can no longer be installed. it is a very easy task and should not cost too much and it is worth it to ensure nothing will be on fire.
General rule is there should be no 30 amp fuses (usually green colored) in there feeding anything. 30's are only used for things like water heaters, dryers and A/C units. Nearly all lighting circuits in these are 15 amp, kitchen receptacle circuits are 20 amp.
Is is a screw in type fuse socket or a cartridge? You have a poor connection somewhere... most likely either the fuse socket where it connects to the fuse, or maybe the wire is loose on the screw. Is there any obvious black marks or anything melted or looks like it is rusted or got hot?
if it is damaged, which it sounds like it is, it is either going to need to be repaired or replaced, but good luck finding parts for a panel that is at least 50 years old. Sadly, if it is not easily fixable it will need to be replaced. But I cannot say for sure without being there.
Fuse panels and breaker panels both do the same thing. If there is a circuit drawing too much current, or a short circuit somewhere, they will stop current flow to that circuit. Fuses have a small thin metal strip inside that melts after a certain amount of current runs through it, once it melts, current cannot flow through it anymore. A circuit breaker on the other hand uses a metallic strip, which holds a spring loaded mechanism in position, when it heats up from too much current, the metallic strip will bend slightly, and the mechanism will move into the tripped position. This will not allow current to flow. The main difference is the obvious one, which is that when a fuse blows, you have to replace it with a new one. But when a breaker trips, you can just flip it back on and it will continue working. The main reason why people say breakers are safer than fuses is that the old fuse panels allowed you to use the wrong size fuse, so if you had a circuit designed for 15 amps, and the fuse kept blowing because you were drawing too much current, you could put in a 20 or even a 30 amp fuse and it would work the same. This is dangerous because if the wire is only designed to run 15 amps, it will overheat and can start a fire. When you replace a fuse, you also have to be very careful as it exposed live metal parts that will shock you if you touch them. One thing a lot of people don't realize though, is that a fuse will blow faster than a breaker will trip in the case of an over current fault. Fuses are not inherently more dangerous than breakers, and in many cases are safer. If they are used properly, and the correct fuses are used they are perfectly safe. I didn't get into magnetic trip breakers, or AFCI or GFCI breakers as those are more recent developments. If you want to know more about those, you can do some research. There are many types of breakers, so I just mentioned the standard ones like what would have replaced an old fuse box in the 60s.
Someone who has been doing electrical for a while can tell just by looking at them and see what size they are. Although if you haven't there are other ways. if you have newer wiring which is standard romex like today, which is unlikely if you have an old fuse panel. It will say right on it and it is also color coded. White jacket is 14, yellow is 12, and orange is 10. If you have older wire then it can be hard to tell, it may still say on the jacket somewhere if it is a cable. If it is knob and tube then it is safe to assume that it should be on a 15 amp fuse either way. I believe you can also get a wire size gauge.
I need help please. How do I just reset the power. I have kids. So my kid plugged a heater upstairs and the power blew. I went to check box and I have old model like the on seen here with 15 amps. Do I have to buy new bulbs or is there a way I can reset it?
They are not resettable, you can look into the little window on the fuses and see which one is blown, the little metal link will either be split or burned open where the good ones will be one piece. You have to unscrew them and put in a new fuse that is the same type as the old one.
@@WalterKnox so basically just replace the one that is blown. And if that doesn’t work then what? I only say that because he plugged his ps4 and heater up stairs but the power is off everywhere. Downstairs Kitchen, living /dining room?
@@doffydonquixte so the power is off in the whole house? if that is the case then something else may have happened, because if the fuse blew, only the stuff on that circuit would have gone off. You can always see if one is blown, and switch it with another one that is good to see if that restores the power to the places where the power went off, if it does then you can buy a new fuse. If not then there is something else going on.
@@doffydonquixte the fuse would be the small glass things that unscrew. The black box that you pull out are the two main fuses that power the whole house. It is possible but not likely that one or both of those are bad, but I would start with the smaller ones.
Yes, taking the fuse out does the same thing as turning off the breaker in that there is no current flowing through the circuit it is connected to and it is completely off. The only issue with leaving the slot empty is that the socket itself is still live, so if someone were to stick a finger, or anything else in there, they could get shocked. If it is only temporary, it would likely be fine, but if you are removing it permanently, you may want to try to find a blown fuse or something to block off the socket. Although you would want to make sure everyone knows the reason the fuse is blown so they don't try to replace it with a new one.
@@BobbaFett312Just a heads up, those screw in "mini-breakers" don't give you an option to manually turn them off. They just have a "reset" button for when they trip. If you want the power off, you still have to physically remove them.
my fuse panel in my apartment building only has 2 fuses ? 2 made of glass and 2 with a button in the middle ... also when I remove them by unscrewing them not all power turn off only certain part in my apartment turn off ...why's that
the two with a button in the center are mini-breakers, they are basically fuses that can be reset if they trip. the glass ones are the old style one time use fuse. each fuse does one circuit, so in this case there would be 4 circuit there, so if you unscrew all 4 of them and the power stays on, then power is coming from somewhere else besides from that panel.
In main panels, they sometimes did. Most of the times for branch circuits, there were only two wires, hot and neutral. And no ground or bond at all. Although some hack job people will bond the ground and neutral to fool an outlet tester known as a “bootleg ground” these days, but this should not be done as it can pose hazards in itself. The only way to ground an ungrounded receptacle legally is to re run with new wiring, although a GFCI can be used in place of an old 2 prong receptacle and will protect against ground faults.
@@albertl2542 Correct. However, a GFCI will detect a ground fault and trip, but that is still not a replacement for a proper equipment ground. But that is the next best fix besides for replacing all the wiring.
To be clear, it depends on the installation and when it was installed. In the 20s-40s there was normally no ground at all, even in the panel, although some of the really early stuff there wasn't really a "panel" but a cabinet that had ceramic fuse holders inside of it. Then from the 50s-early 60s they normally did have a ground in the panel to which it was bonded, but they normally did not run a ground to the branch circuits except for large appliances. Then from around the mid 60s onward they did run a ground wire with all of the branch circuits, and everything was for the most part bonded like it is today. It was not required however to run a grounding wire to receptacle and lighting circuits until 1971, so if someone was being especially cheap back in the day, they still might not have.
If it is just a regular fuse that is broken off in the socket, you need to remove the main fuses and make sure the power is off, then you can carefully remove it with something like a pair of needle nose pliers.
@@arch5578 okay, so you say that you have no power on 3 different fuses and they are all okay? Have you checked your main fuses if you have them? They are in a cartridge that should say something like "main". If one of those is out, half of your circuits won't work. What you could do is remove both fuses from the cartridge, and then switch them around. So that way, if one if blown, it will be on the other side. Then, when you put them back in, the circuits that weren't working before should be working, but other ones won't. But if this is the case, you know the fuse is blown, so you will just have to go get a new one (and if that is the case, I would get 2 new ones and just replace them both)
If that still isn't the case, it is most likely something has failed. I am not sure of the exact way your panel is set up, but it could be a bad connection that failed, or a burned wire, or something as simple as a loose screw. Either way, if that is the case, I can't really help to diagnose it over the internet.
I Live in a 1903 Duplex and all the fuses in there are Tl 30 amp's and lately if I run the Coffee pot or the AC I get up to 1 Min of 90% power decrease and flutter blinking . There are 4 in each Box and there are 2 unknown on the Main , then there are the long fuses witch look very corrosive ? Scary to me .
First off, I highly doubt all of the fuses are supposed to be 30 amps. They should likely be 15 or 20s, but without actually knowing what size wire it is, I can't say. Also, if the fuses are corroded that needs top be fixed. You have a bad connection somewhere, which causes heat which will eventually cause a fire.
@@WalterKnox Well all 8 in the 2 Boxes were 30 Amp , I will buy more ... The Main off \ 0n switch has 2 fuses also , I can't yet tell the amps rating . and then there are 2 Long shotgun shell looking fuses in those pull out cases 4 in all , When I make coffee all the house lights get so dim I can't really see "\ Same when the AC a window unit cycles .
@@QuaaludeCharlie Something is definitely wrong there, most likely you have a poor connection somewhere. Having all 30 amp fuses is almost certainly wrong as well. This should also be taken seriously as it can cause the wires to overheat if too much current passes through them and it could start a fire. You (or the owner of the building?) should certainly have someone look at it who knows what they are doing. Bad news is that if it is like many landlords, they simply do not care if something is dangerous as long as it works, and there is a good chance they put the 30 amp fuses in place. You definitely need an evaluation by someone who knows the subject. Since I am not there to tell you what you need, and this is a safety issue. I am no longer able to offer advice for your situation.
@@QuaaludeCharlie Yeah, that would be your best bet. Sorry I couldn't be more of a help, but if something is a safety issue, I don't like to give advice over the internet.
Okay so my dryer runs on 2 30amp glass fuses, one fuse keeps getting hot and blowing, did a draw on the dryer it was pulling 226 volts, is the dryer the issue or something in the panel?
It sounds like you need an electrician to come look at it. Most likely if multiple fuses have blown, you have an issue with the dryer or something pulling too much current and not an issue with the panel. There is no such thing as a device "pulling" voltage. The voltage is 220 no matter what, that is just the voltage being supplied to the dryer. It "pulls" amps, which should be under 30.
@@WalterKnox This was done by an electrician🤷 but he wanted a ridiculous amount to replace the panel and then said it could keep happening if it's the dryer so now I'm completely confused 😕
@@WalterKnox When he stuck the multimeter in the plug it was 218 volts, turned on the dryer and said it was 226 volts... I know nothing about electrical so just looking for another opinion.
@@forterierocks Okay. I think I understand. Yeah, I cannot say for sure without being there to look at it, but if I were you, I would have another electrician from another company come look at it. I see no reason why the whole panel would need to be replaced unless it is physically damaged or something, but it doesn't really sound like it. I don't see how the voltage would go up when the dryer is on, if anything it would go down slightly, but not that much. My guess would be that for some reason the dryer is pulling too much current. It sounds to me like they were just trying to sell you something. To properly diagnose if it is the dryer pulling too much current, they would need to measure that amperage the dryer is using, and not the voltage being supplied to it. It seems like people these days have been conditioned to be scared of anything old like a fuse panel, and sadly a lot of electricians and people in general try to profit off of that. If the panel is in okay shape and is working as it should, There is really no reason for it to be replaced. One thing to look at is the fuse socket, remove both fuses for the dryer and look inside the socket (do not touch) for any rust or corrosion. If there is no rust or corrosion, it is likely not the panel, there really is not much to go wrong there.
It's quite often a matter of insurabilty and resale that most fusepanels and some early breaker panels are replaced on top of most remaining ones having little or no empty space.
yeah, i hear that alot. i think it really depends on the insurance company or where you are located. we sold a house like 3 years ago with 60 amp service for the whole house and a fuse panel, had no problems with that, the guy got a loan and insurance on the house just fine, and we knew him and the house had the same panel up until he passed away and his sister sold the house and it still had the same panel then as well, i am unsure if it still does. the house we have now has 100 amp service, but it has a federal pacific main panel for the big things like the heat and the water heater, and we have a sub-panel in the house which is a fuse panel that does everything inside. we have never had an issue when buying the house or getting insurance on that. they sent a guy out to inspect everything, he did note that we had an old fuse panel and he said everything was in good shape and should be perfectly fine. of course he did recommend replacement of the federal pacific panel, which is something we are eventually going to do.
@@WalterKnox it seems to depend on who the buyer is. Even though Ontario, Canada where the real estate market is very heated removal of all remaining knob and tube is a common condition of sale.
@@robertsitch1415yeah. people are afraid of things i guess. as long as you respect the limitations of this old stuff including knob and tube wiring, if it is in good shape it is perfectly safe to continue using.
@@WalterKnox it's mostly done because few insurance companies want to cover it and in my area most of it was installed in homes about 90 to 100 years ago so it's seldom in great condition.
@@WalterKnox another reason why it depends upon the buyer a lot of the time is that most people want to gut a kitchen that is more than a few decades old and not well layed out so that requires new circuits. Another reason why a new 200 amp service is likely to be installed before or shortly after the war sale is if the new owner wants a hot tub or mabey an EV charging station.
if by back powered, you mean feed power in through a circuit, yes it can, but should not be. In order to safely and legally be back fed, there must be an interlocking device which does not allow the service power to be on at the same time as the power being fed into it, with most modern breaker panels, that is just a plate between the breakers so that only one can be on at a time. There is no real way to do this with one of these as to shut off the service, the main fuses must be removed.
In theory (and in practice in most cases,) nothing would happen. This used to be (and still is somewhat) a trick people would do when they were selling a house was to install 3 prong receptacles and connect the ground in with the neutral, this is commonly referred to as a "bootleg ground." This would fool plug in testers that inspectors would commonly carry with them, so at a quick glance everything appears to be correct. It is however NOT a good idea and can pose some pretty bad shock risks in the event of the failure. One of the main risks is if there was a failure of the neutral wire but the hot wire were to remain live, you would then have the body of metal appliances become live, which is extremely dangerous. You would honestly be better off just not connecting anything to the ground terminal. The best solution to needing a 3 prong outlet, but not having a ground wire is to replace the receptacle with a GFCI, if you replace the first one in the string of receptacles, then you can simply replace all of the subsequent receptacles with standard 3 prong units as they will be protected by the GFCI. This (other than rewiring the whole circuit) is the only way accepted by NEC. It is also worth noting that just because a house has an old type fuse panel like this, it does not necessarily have ungrounded receptacles/wiring. These panels were used in some capacity through the 50s/60s, and even some into the 70s; by that point many houses were wired with grounded wire. I have actually seen a couple of cases where the wire running to the box had a ground wire (or the box was solidly grounded) but 2 prong receptacles were used anyway, so that was just a direct replacement with no modification or special fittings needed.
@@WalterKnox, Thank you for the response, it is a sub panel in a detached garage so there’s that, additionally there is no ground wire coming from the service panel to the garage, so I couldn’t really ground the outlets regardless. There is a copper wire going straight into the earth from the sub panel though. It is kind of funny that in the main panel the ground ties up with the neutral anyway, so I’m here thinking “since they touch there, why don’t you just link them at the receptacle? It’d be easier that way!” If I install a GFCI, could I then use a video game console and tv? Or would that be harmful to the electronics?
Yeah, you can bond the neutral and grounds together in a main panel, but not in a sub-panel (although it is still done sometimes, it is illegal.) Even though I am a licensed electrician (although barely at this point,) I still don’t fully understand why that is, or why it is safe to tie them together in the panel but not at the end of the receptacle; but I guess that is why engineers design things certain ways, I just install and repair them. Installing a GFCI would provide ground fault protection in the event that a device failed and had a hot to ground short of any sort. That is all a GFCI does, it protects you from getting shocked. Stuff like surge protectors do need a solid ground connection to effectively suppress power surges, as they send any surges back to ground. So in the event of a power surge, there is a slightly higher risk of a sensitive device getting damaged, but it isn’t a guarantee or even a large risk. I have a house with mostly no ground aside from kitchens and bathrooms, and I have never (to my knowledge) had anything damaged as a result in the 21 years I have lived here.
@@WalterKnox, Thanks for the tip, if an electrician were to run a ground from the main panel to the sub panel and then wire everything correctly could you still use the older fuse box?
@@jacknedry3925 should be able to, they would just need to ad a ground bar to the panel. All the wire going to the circuits would have to be replaced with 3 wire was well. There is no safety (or code) issue with having ground in an old fuse panel, towards the end many of them were wired with grounding conductors. Good luck finding an electrician willing to do that though, most of them (including the company I work for) won’t do any substantial work on a fuse panel unless it is replacing it.
if the fuse you replaced was the correct one, and the new one did not blow instantly, you have an open circuit somewhere. (if the new fuse is blown, and blew instantly, you have a short somewhere). I am not sure on how your house is wired, but it is possible that receptacles or devices are wired through each other. if that is the case, something could have come off of the first one in the circuit and is not allowing power through. It could also be an issue with the fuse socket or something. other than that, without knowing more information or being there to look at it, I could not tell you. The best bet is to get someone who knows this stuff to look at it.
My fuse box broke it won’t turn on my electricity at all and I see sparks down the left bottom like it’s melted . What should I do ?I’m sitting in the dark only my kitchen light works the superior keep putting the power on but nothing
@@Surviving695 I can't really tell exactly what you need over the internet, or from the description of "it's broken" or "like it's melted". But if something really is melting, or you are seeing sparks, you have a bad connection, or something is drawing too much current and has caused this. Either way, this is a safety concern at this point, and not a concern of just getting the power back on and I will not offer any advice over the internet. Most likely if the panel is damaged to the point that it sounds like it is, the whole panel is going to need to be replaced, as replacement parts other than just fuses aren't really obtainable anymore. You need to call an electrician ASAP, and if you are seeing sparks, or something is getting hot, you need to disconnect the power by either shutting off the main breaker if you have one, or pulling the main fuse.
@@WalterKnox thanks for answering and I live in apartment building so can’t really turn off anything . So if I hire electrician what to tell them because I’m not sure what to say thanks
@@Surviving695 Just tell them that you are having an issue with your fuse panel, they should be able to assess it and tell you what you need. Although if you are in an apartment, you may want to ask them what to do, as a lot of times they will be weird about things, or may have an answer for you. You can send a picture to the email listed in the about section of my channel if you want to, but my advice will most likely still be the same for this situation.
The lightbulb would be in series with everything in that circuit. Depending on how much current is being drawn by the circuit, the light bulb may light dimly or it might light brightly. Most certainly nothing on that circuit would have enough voltage to operate properly and would either operate incorrectly or not at all.
@@veziculorile I guess I just have spent a lot of time researching and playing with old equipment. I am by no means an expert or anything. As far as putting a lightbulb into it. They have this thing called a dim bulb tester, we use them on old radios and stuff that has not been used in many year. it is just a light socket wired in series with an outlet. so if something is wrong with the device and it is shorted, the bulb will light up brightly and not damage anything, if there is nothing wrong the bulb will most likely glow really dim. So it is the same thing because the fuse is wired in series with the load, and the socket is the same, so if you but a light bulb in series with it, the same thing would happen there. I am not sure what a CFL or an LED would do though. probably nothing would work as they are very low current.
Very old school electricians would troubleshoot a short circuit by screwing a light bulb in the fuse socket. Or with a circuit breaker panel they would use a lamp socket with leads and pigtail one lead onto the circuit wire and put the other lead into the breaker. If the bulb burns at full brightness there is a short circuit. When the short is removed the bulb will be dimmer because it's in series with the load, the larger the load the brighter the bulb.
It is, there is no bar for ground, but depending on your panel, you may be able to purchase and fit a ground bar. All you would need from there is a good solid ground connection, and you would run your ground wire to that, and all of your grounds for the branch circuits from it as well.
If there is not room for a ground bar, and you only need to ground 1 or 2 circuits, you could also just run in a ground, and use a wire nut to attach the ground together. Not up to code, but as long as it is not touching anything, it is technically okay and better than no ground at all.
Honestly, old fuse panels are safer and more reliable than modern breaker panels. The only feature they are missing is arc fault protection, which in my opinion is annoying and overkill anyway. In the event of a short circuit or a huge overload situation, a fuse will blow faster than a breaker can trip; which is why a lot of sensitive electronics are still protected by fuses, as well as larger equipment is often still protected by fuses as well. The only real danger of a fuse panel is idiots putting in the wrong size fuses (or a penny) and burning down their house. I guess sticking your finger in the fuse socket while it is live is a danger I overlook as well because I have common sense, but that seems to have gone out the window years ago for most people.
You really should, most people don't though (I am guilty of that as well) because they say "I am careful and won't get shocked" but it really is not about getting shocked, every time you make electrical contact with a device that is live it sparks, I am sure you have seen a plug spark when you plug it in, well a fuse which is powering a circuit is going to spark more than that, you won't see it because it is at the bottom where it makes contact, but after enough times it may cause the contacts in your panel to wear out and not make as good of a connection, which can cause all sorts of problems. It probably won't happen, but still a good idea to turn off the power to that panel.
@@kristensacco3727 go to the main panel that is supplying power to that sub panel. One of the breakers will be supplying power to that sub panel. If there is no markings you can find it by process of elimination. . TURN off one at a time untill you find the one that powers the sub panel with fuses..
you mean the S adapter sleeve that goes to the S type fuses like shown instead of the regular fuses? why is it not making a connection? are you sure you are using the correct rated fuse? they are designed so that if you use the wrong fuse, it will not make a connection.
@@WalterKnox yes just using 20 amp fuse no power to terminal below fuse I take a meter to screw in socket and to where top of adapter is get 120 volts just nothing where fuse is in? I know adapter doesn’t support 30 amp fuses but what about adapter only for 15 amp could that be my problem
@@frankspliff7037 is the fuse 100% for sure not blown? if you have another fuse and you have not already try switching it. honestly I don't like those adapters. if you are not using the right fuse it wont work... was it working before with the same size fuse? and is every other circuit on the panel working? if you have power at the center of the fuse holder, and the fuse is good and the right size, there should be no reason it does not make a connection. there really is no good way to remove them, they can not be removed without breaking them, so you can either break them up and remove the pieces with a screwdriver or use a special tool, I have never used the tool and don't know how to use it, but it can be got here www.ebay.com/itm/Trico-38080-X-Tract-O-Fuse-Adapter-Remover-/254783602827?_ul=IL they have not made them for many years and they cost an arm and a leg. from what I have heard they are not really easy to remove and they can cause damage to the panel as well. so really there is no good way to remove it.
the video gets the point across does it not? if you don't want to watch the video then you do not have to, but there is a bunch of great info in it if you would pay attention to what is actually going on in the video instead of running to the comments section to complain about the video quality. I make these videos to help or entertain people, I make no money off of them, i just share because someone may find it useful, if you don't like the quality of the video you can send me some money and i will buy a tripod, otherwise just watch the video the way it is, or don't watch it at all, your call.
Very informative. You answered (eventually) the one question I was seeking an answer to: “Do not use a higher value fuse as it will dangerously overheat your wires before “breaking.” It should’ve ended there. However, your casual DIY delivery may give a layperson a false sense of security while attempting to even investigate their panel or, God forbid, try to clean it. The fact that you are demo-ing on a dead/dummy panel adds to this misperception. You have your hands and fingers in areas that would normally be “live.” You should take this video down until you re-edit it with clearer warnings. Unless you are a licensed electrician, do not mess around with the power in your home or business. Would you perform heart surgery or a root canal on yourself? You mean well, but your video will likely lead to someone’s electrocution.
I made a very clear warning not to do anything shown in this video unless you know what you are doing, and if you do not to call a licensed electrician. Most of what I was showing with the dead front removed could have been done with it in place, like removing or replacing a fuse, which is something that can be done without being an electrician as long as you know what not to touch. Although it is mentioned that it is best to remove the main cartridge fuse before doing so. The main purpose of this video is to explain that an old fuse panel is perfectly safe if used properly, and the main danger with them is user error such as overfusing a circuit, which is explained in the video. I will certainly not take the video down as I am not telling anyone to do anything other than explaining some common misconceptions. It is not an instruction video of any kind and that is made clear. There are many videos on youtube of people showing people how to do something that is actually dangerous, this is not one of them. Either way, if someone is going to play around with their electrical system without knowing what they are doing (which is not something I condone) they are going to with or without this video.
Okay, so you edited your original comment (again) but this still does not change the answer or make you correct. And Honestly, if you don’t know not to use a larger fuse than what the wife can handle... maybe you should re evaluate yourself instead of evaluating me. And the video is not catered to you specifically. It shouldn’t just end after answering YOUR question. Someone else may have another question hence why I overviewed many other things. It is not all about you.
@@theofficialmakeawishfounda6924 if you were not here for the original exchange, you shouldn't be telling anyone to chill. This guy has changed his comment 4 different times now. And his last one, one of his points is that I took to long to answer HIS question. Every time I replied to his comment, he changed it to make it sound like I am the one being an asshole by removing the context to what I am replying to.
Greetings, Romex is listed as having a temp of 192 degrees at full load. So a 14 gage wire with 15 amps flowing through it can't exceed that temp. If the current is doubled, 30 amps, the temp will very quickly climb to 768 which will have a most disasterous effect.
Blowing is a sudden amount of high current that will leave the window of the fuse 'blackened' This would be a direct short like a bad extension cord or appliance. A fuse that opened due to an overload would have a clear window and you would see the melted link.
Although generally, even if the fuse was not violently blown from a dead short, a bad fuse is often referred to as a blown fuse, so calling it such wouldn't really be wrong.
look through the little window or glass on the fuse, there is a small metal strip inside of them. if the metal strip is in one piece it is not blown, if the metal strip is broken then it is blown. also, if the little window is blackened then it is blown.
I’m glad you made this video because I bought a older house that was built in the 1920s and I’m trying to understand the electrical system because in one bedroom I have two fuse panel panels but on the outside of my house I have a circuit breaker box. I’m just getting into it so hopefully I can understand the fuses in that bedroom a little better and be able to check to make sure that they are the right fuses. Everything works in the house with the exception of three plugs that are reading 20 V. I think there are a part of the fuse box. All I know is your video was the best one explaining the fuses.
It is hard to find useful knowledge on these other than people screaming “They are old, replace them.” But replacing them is not always an option for budget reasons, and often times it does not need to be done as old does not equal bad. If they are in good condition, and properly used, they can be just as safe as a modern panel.
If I had to guess, the two fuse panels are your original main electrical system, the breaker box was added and is now the main panel, and the old system was left intact and reduced to sub-panels. Stuff like lights and receptacles will be in the fuse panel, and things that were added later like larger appliances will be on the new panel. That is speculation without being there to see it, but it is pretty commonplace.
Another thing worth noting is screw in mini-breakers. I think I forgor to mention them, but they just screw into a fuse socket and have a resettable breaker, so you don’t have to replace it if it blows. May be a good thing to get to prevent people from putting in the wrong size fuse if it blows in the future; having too large of a fuse installed for the wiring is the main danger of these panels and is completely preventable.
Great video. I have a soft spot for old electrical stuff.
I'm not quite sold on the insulation over knob and tube. Personally, I think it's a push by insurance companies to elude coverage. There were many, many houses today that have knob and tube still in use with blown in insulation added in. I can't see that much heat being generated during normal operation simply due to being enveloped in insulation that it would trigger a fire or degrade the insulation faster. There was NM cable at that time with the same insulation properties and you never hear anything about that being covered up.
The primary dangers with knob and tube is homeowner modifications, overfusing, and overloading.
I feel an unmodified knob and tube systems operating within it's original design and properly fused is perfectly safe, even if covered with insulation.
I see it all over the web and TH-cam, people bash knob and tube for unfounded reasons, mostly by insurers and some electricians looking to sell full rewires.
I completely agree. I have no issue with knob and tube, and if I got an old house with it in good shape I would certainly leave it. I would think it would generate LESS heat than modern cable, it is the same size wire and it is separate instead of all the conductors closely packed in one jacket, so the insulation thing wouldn’t concern me, but I would not want insulation over it just for insurance reasons if something were to happen because they look for every excuse to NOT cover you.
I don’t just not dislike knob and tube, but I actually like it, it has already and will continue to last longer than the modern stuff, and it was put in with pride, not just some wires shoved in the wall. I would love to see the modern plastic stuff in 100 years, some of the earlier NM cable with plastic insulated wires is already causing issues with the insulation breaking down and since the wires are together, they can short easily. Even if knob and tube had no insulation, it still wouldn’t short or likely cause any issues.
This was very helpful. I appreciate short videos on perhaps obscure subjects that give you a direction to head when solving a problem.
Glad you found it helpful.
Thanks man, this was really helpful. I'm quite sure there's a 20amp fuse where there should be a 15 in the house I bought. Time to go remedy that!
I agree! 👍🏻 It would be more worth adding a sub panel, than paying for two new panels.
2 new panels just replace with one larger panel . I used a 12 space panel on the one bedroom house in the mountains I also used an eight space outdoor panel which holds the 100 amp main the 50 amp range and the 20 amp pump breakers. the last breaker is a 70 amp main for another sub panel. which is for the central heat and air. the dryer and water heater are inside for convenience. I turn off the water heater when I don't need hot water but a timer is going to be installed later. bottom line the indoor panel has a few mini breakers but if you wire up to the new code AFCI breakers take up one space, there are no mini AFCI that I'm aware of. 73
Those fuses will blow 60 times faster than a breaker will trip and they never fail to blow with an overload.
Correct. Properly maintained vintage service equipment is just as safe or safer than modern stuff is a lot of the time. The only failures these panels will have are due to human error. Sadly humans these days are quite unreliable
@@WalterKnoxAll intentional. Bureaucrats run all American schools. Etiquette, phonics, AP History and writing cursive are just a few of the things that have been taken out of the curriculum.
@@KratostheThirdTeaching cursive does not matter. Critical thinking does.
@@livejay9062 I’m telling you how it is.
Great video!! I saw this kinda box on Instagram and was intrigued so I came to TH-cam to learn more about them in case I run into one. Now I know! Thank you
glad you found the video helpful.
a few things i failed to mention. most older fuse panels would have 2 sets of cartridge fuses, the main fuses and a set of range fuses for an electric range, if the fuse panel is your MAIN panel and you have range fuses, you can put 60 amp fuses in that cartridge and run a sub-panel from there. i find that most old fuse panels, even if once the main panel have been reduced to just a sub panel and a 100 or 150 amp main panel has been installed. i believe that this panel may have been originally intended for use as a sub panel when new, because there are no range fuses, and i do not see a way that you would run a sub panel off of it. the other is that it is 60 amp per leg, meaning that there are 2 legs or phases, each one 120 volts, they go together to become 240 volt for larger appliances. the 60 amp rating is per leg.
A fuse panel like this with just the main cartridge fuses could've been used in a home, or apartment, that had or was to have a gas range. Very early on an electric range was pretty much the only large 220 volt appliance that would require cartridge fuses. If there was a gas range and they didn't anticipate it getting replaced with an electric one they probably didn't feel the need to install a panel with a Range pullout. I don't see it on this panel's diagram, but most fuse panels had taps, or subfeed lugs under the main fuses that could could tap off of and add another appliance or subpanel for additional circuits. This would come directly off the main. Usually in a main only panel like this, the subfeed lugs are between the main and plug fuses.
For a small home or apartment, with all major gas or propane appliances and either no A/C, or room air conditioners or a maybe a small central unit, 60 amp could be fine but you still need more circuits to distribute the loads and this panel has no room for expansion.
@@Progrocker70 I run central air, an electric water heater and electric range off of 60 amps just fine, as long as the limits of this old stuff is regarded and it is a small home with a relatively small load it is normally fine. The whole upgrading to a new panel or upgrading your main service is just a big thing the insurance companies use to scare you. The main fire hazard is bad wiring, but I would much rather have a fuse panel than a federal pacific panel (which we also have) but you are correct, the main issue is the lack of circuits in a panel like this one, which is why I find that the service is often upgraded with a new main panel and the old fuse panel reduced to just a 60 amp sub panel, and new circuits added separately to the main panel. As for being able to run a sub panel off the one shown in the video I don’t see revisions anywhere for that. I have more standard panels with the regular 4 branch circuits and the range block, I should have probably demonstrated one of those instead, but I used what I had handy at the time.
@@Progrocker70 I should also mention that we do have has heat and the central air is rarely if ever run and we just cool two rooms with window units, I have never actually tripped the main 60 amp breaker (it is an FPE stablok so I don’t even know if it would) but I am sure it would not be too hard.
@@WalterKnox I think it would depend on the size of the central A/C unit, some require only a 15 amp while others require a 50 amp 220 volt circuit. A small unit or one with an inverter or a mini split isn't gonna consume that much power. A stove is considered a 40-50 amp appliance but that would only be with all of the burners on and the oven on as well, all heating at the same time.
@@Progrocker70 yeah, that is why when looking at ratings things are not always as they seem.
Enjoying your videos. That must have been a knob and tube wire from later on, like the 30s or 40s just before NM and Armored Cable became widely used. I've worked in home built in the '20s and earlier, all knob and tube I've seen was no longer being used, but was remains of an earlier system, was both black insulation, so you couldn't tell which is hot and which is neutral. That stuff can crumble at the slightest disturbance, particularly in overhead lights where people have used 75 or 100 watt bulbs to get more light and over a period of time baked the wires into position.
Yeah, the house I removed this from both of the wires were white as opposed to black, so still couldn’t tell polarity. It was all in good shape and not crumbling or all jacked up.
@@frankpaya690 people are taught to be overly scared of things.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge
Hi Walter Great video but I have a question about an issue I have. I purchased an older 1960’s mobile home in good shape and it has a general switch MHS 618 panel box very similar to this one with the exceptions that it has the main disconnect at the bottom instead of at the top and it has 8 round fuses instead of 6 like yours. My issue is someone broke into it and they stole the main disconnect pullout from my box. My question is when I looked on EBay they show several types and I’m needing to know what exactly I need to purchase here do I need a 60 Amp 240 volt or a 60 Amp 120/240 or would the actual main disconnect pull out fuse holder be a 100 Amp one? I am leaning to the 100 Amp pull out fuse holder being that there are 4 fuses per leg and they are using 30 Amp fuses. That way max load per leg would be 120 which would fry the 100 amp fuse. I tried looking online for a General Switch MHS 618 Panel Box like mine but was unsuccessful nor could I find any schematics or diagrams of that model. Any help would be much appreciated so Thank you 🙏! Keep up these excellent videos your a natural and very easy to understand! Take care
Okay, first off... if all of your twist in (round) fuses are of the 30 amp variety, it is likely that someone was having issues with the fuses blowing and put those in place of whatever was there originally. So I would probably recommend getting that looked at unless you know for a fact that the wire they are powering is the correct size to handle 30 amps, because if the wire is not able to handle 30 amps, that is a fire hazard.
Looking up that model panel, it does appear to be a 60 amp panel. One thing to remember is that the main disconnect is not going to be the total amperage of all of the fuses added up, there is a thing called a demand factor, basically not everything is on all the time, so we only calculate for a percentage of that load called a demand factor, this is where the main service amperage comes from. Once again that is assuming that all of the fuses should be 30 amps, which I would be surprised if they were.
But to answer your question, the main disconnect should be 60 amps. It is most likely This part but don't quote me on that (It looks identical to the one in the panel I was showing in this video, but there is no part number or anything on it)
www.ebay.com/itm/175378638408?hash=item28d561a648:g:e1QAAOSwd9tg1lO8&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAsNxgxXVFa%2FpEi1l4iwMDzBTR7Vi1pJK%2FqfWs%2BDfV6NXzvksdfzZbcWjgef%2BDVVblMiFxod90j%2BVyrOZWiFxVcFmMlvgouQiH%2BALQADFAjh7fazXE%2FPRElZOQ6YLB9PGUbBomov1JLhLuzR8%2BSuYTPw3KOfJucFQmKLwddJf4kbRFTft66JJ9eU0HEclFdoNcb9CBcAQ%2F599Im2OkDweCZyQ%2FWqZU%2Ftq0KiK8nbX5vp8G%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9zD2ZyEYQ
This video is very helpful. Thank you.
No problem. I am so very glad to have been helpful.
I think I replaced a 25 amp with a 30 TL. I wish the panel is labeled. I have 8 circuits. I'll try the S-type. Your video is spectacular. Ty
Glad you found it helpful, definitely check that out... a 30 amp fuse should only be used if the wire is 10 gauge or larger!
@@WalterKnox how would I bee able to identify the gauge size? Thanks again. When I was younger, I remember seeing orange fuses. Not anymore.
@@johnnykurplutzo6789 25 amp fuses I believe are green... Orange is 20 amps... It is sort of difficult to determine the wire size... You could try putting in a 20 and seeing if it blows or not, chances are if it does not then a 20 is just fine. if it blows then you may be overloading the circuit if the case really is that a 20 belongs there... the best thing to do in that case would to be to have someone check it out and tell you what size fuse goes where.
Thank you!
I know the horrors of fuse boxes all too well... grew up in a small mobile home with just FOUR circuits for the whole damn house. We were CONSTANTLY blowing fuses, so my dad started buying slow-blow fuses which were less sensitive. Some people would even shove coins into the sockets...
yeah... they are not dangerous in themselves, but with only 4 circuits like alot of them had they were very easy to overload, then people put in larger fuses and even coins which is even worse, that is when the issues happen.
at this point they are obsolete, but i would still rather have one over a federal pacific stab-lok panel any day
@@WalterKnox I found your channel because of a comment you made on a video about testing federal pacific breakers. You mentioned about how you made a tester to check each breaker in the panel. I would really be interested in a video where you showcase the tester. I am definitely going to make one of those tester. Thanks, Kevin
@@kmtischer absolutely, it is pretty simple and that is one of the things I have on the list of things that I need to make videos on.
@@WalterKnox Thanks man, I subscribed so I will keep an eye out for it.
I have a 60a fuse panel and the house was built in 1954. It has a main, 6 circuits, and a range circuits. The wires for it are covered in a black cloth type material and then the hot and neutral are covered in plastic like the modern wires. However the main lines coming from the meter base are covered in the material like you were showing and appear to be a 6awg wire.
I run the a dryer off the range circuit. The thing about it is my hot water tank has a completely different setup. It has a 50a breaker in it's own box that has no cover mounted about 8" from the main box. We had no idea where the power is coming from that goes to it because we can pull the main fuse in the main panel and the 50a breaker for the hot water heater is still hot. I'm still puzzled where the power is coming from for it. It has the light colored cloth type covering and appears to be 8awg wires. Is it possible someone could have ran those wires from the meter base as well?
It is possible... I am guessing you do not have two electric meters on your house? used to, in some areas they would put the water heater on a meter of it's own and charge a lower rate for it as a way to get people to go over to electric. It is possible that maybe this was the case at one point, and someone removed the meter for the water heater, and just ran the wire into the main meter box. If that is the case, that is not up to code as you are not supposed to have two things under one lug.
Also, unless it is a Tankless water heater, or a huge water heater, 50A seems a bit overkill. most of them are around 30A
@@WalterKnox No sir I do not have two meters. I just went and double checked and both the main panel and the smaller breaker box are Cutler Hammer. The breaker box label reads
Cat. No. XO-2
50Amp
120v A-C or
120/240v-AC
And it does have the same size wire coming into the breaker as it does the main. I'm thinking it could be 6awg. Anyway it has 3 wires coming in and also a separate ground.
What I don't understand is that according to the courthouse and deed the house was built in 1954. The label on the inside cover of the main panel is dated March 1956. Now it looks like it would have to have had a different main panel at one point.
Sorry, TH-cam has decided that it is nolonger going to notify me wen I get new replies.
yeah, I doubt that it took two years to finish building a house. I am not sure about that then, It seems weird that someone would have replaced a panel that early on... As for your hot water thing, I am not sure. It is hard to tell... there has to be somewhere before the main breaker it is either tapped into or spliced into, I would not worry about it though as long as it has it's own disconnect.
@@WalterKnox in relationship to where the meter is on the outside of the house where the main panel and the separate breaker are located inside the house there is only a distance of 6-9 feet between the two. The incoming wires for both are the exact same size.
Just had an idea. The place behind the main panel and the breaker is a closet. The back wall of the closet almost lines up perfect with the outside meter. I'm thinking they probably ran the main line or lines from the meter through the back closet wall to the main panel and the breaker. I cant see them taking the wires up into the attic and back down through the wall. It would've been so convenient to run it straight through wall.
I'll end up taking out the back wall it's only sheetrock
Excellent video. Thank you so much.
glad you found it helpful,
What about the Ben7amin Starrett fuse panel with 1377 tumbler switch. IS THIS A GOOD FUSE BOX? I was told with the steel tubed wire it's GOOD?
Steel tubed wire? are you talking about BX wire (flexible) or conduit (like a pipe)? Either way, if it is in good shape then it should be fine.
What year was this panel made my parents have Wadsworth with 4 pull outs and 8 screw fuses installed 1970
this one is most likely from the 60s as it is a bit more modern in construction to some of the old panels I have seen. But I am not sure as I have never researched it.
What you have is probably a 100 or 150 amp panel. What you have is a more modern version of a fuse panel, I believe they were still installed until around mid '70s. Usually with those Wadsworth panels three of the pullout blocks are for 220 volt appliances and the other one is a main for the plug fuse circuits
I live in older apartment. I have bought a portable ac. when it turns on my lights flicker briefly ....is that a fuse problem or just initially when it starts it uses too much power ?
When it first turns on, and the lights dim for a second and then return back to normal, that is fine as an air conditioner just takes a lot of power to start. If they flicker for anything more than a second, or they stay dimmer then too much power is being pulled. In which case a fuse will blow, so as long as the lights only briefly dim when the unit is first turned on, and the fuse does not blow, that is completely normal.
Hello! Great video thank you. I have that same 60amp panel and have questions : the power to part of the home first went out. Then, about a week later, all the power doesn’t work. I tested the 60amp tubes and both are ok. Is there a way to reset this?
I actually just uploaded to my channel a video of the set up at my place ... I took the 60 tubes out to test that’s why they are not in the box. Any ideas why no power here?? Or how I can reset this?
I just saw this comment(THANKS TH-cam), sorry. I will look when I get home.
HELP; I removed a blown 15amp fuse. It had no copper on it when removed. There was an adapter left in the socket. I then removed the adapter with great difficulty. Because the replacement fuse I bought didn't fit for some reason. It was too small but looked exactly like the one I removed. NOW no fuse will fit the socket even with a new adapter for the fuse. The new adapter is too small for the socket. I don't understand. It appears I need a larger external circumference adapter. The adapter screws on to the fuse ok. The socket walls are smooth. I wonder how big an adapter is needed to encompass the 15 Amp adapter to fill the space?
@@gingiehughes9575 the walls on the socket are smooth? Do you still have the original adapter? Why did you remove it, it is supposed to stay in the panel. They are very difficult to remove for a reason, there is a good chance you damaged the socket.
Can I check the gauge of wire by pulling panel out? I used to replace any blown fuses w/ 30 amps when I was a kid. Didn't know any better ty
Replacing any fuse with a fuse larger is definitely not a good idea. You can find out what size wire it is if you know what you are looking at, but chances are if it is older (which it would be if you have this type panel), it won’t clearly say what size it is. It is just something you learn from doing electric work, you know what size a wire is by looking at it, but if you can’t do that, or you don’t know exactly what you are doing, in which case I would NOT recommend opening up a panel as there are many parts that can kill you.
If would have someone look at it and see what size wires they are, and then install “s adapters” which will make it so only the correct size can be used.
You could also just put 15 amp fuses in all of the sockets, and if they blow quickly put in a 20, but that is definitely not the best idea.
Either way, 30 amp fuses are rarely used in home applications aside from dryers and water heaters.
@@WalterKnox wow. I appreciate you so much. Thank you. You might have saved my life.
I hve one of those in my 40 year old garage with 2 fuses , wonder what the incoming supply voltage is ?
most likely 240. each fuse would be 120 and you have a neutral.
Count the conductors coming into the panel.
I’m having trouble finding the one that goes to my laundry room at my grandmothers.. I would love some help to figure out what fuse to replace it’s not getting enough power to turn on the heating element but it powers it’s enough for it to turn on
It is probably in a cartridge, and is one of the two fuses which has failed. If not and it is a plug fuse for some reason, you can see the little metal link is broken through the small window that have.
I'm replaceing a 50 amp fuze trying to pull the cover how can I pull it it's really stubborn how can I avoid breaking it while pulling it
Without seeing your exact panel and how it is set up, I cannot really tell you for sure as there are many different designs. Is it a cartridge fuse, and are you having issues pulling out the cartridge fuse holder, or the fuses themself?
Hello! I'm hoping you can give me some guidance. My house still has fuses, not breakers. In my bedroom, I have a ceiling fan with a light. All the outlets are working but not the ceiling fan or light. I have tried changing the 15 and 20 fuses, but still no fan/light. Help! What should I try? Single mom here with limited budget so greatly appreciate your advice.
if you look at the little window on the fuses themselves you can see a little metal link, if the fuse is blown then it will be broken, if it is not then it is still good. it sounds to me like the issue you are having is either with the wiring somewhere or the fixture itself, i would say 90 percent of the time the outlets and lighting (in this case your fan) are all on the same circuit for one room, if not all the lighting for several areas are on one circuit. the fan would not be on it's own circuit, so if it were an issue with the panel or a fuse in the panel then there would be other things on the same circuit that do not work as well. is this something that just randomly happened one day or have you been noticing any issues like flickering lights or anything like that? also, have you had any work to any outlets or anything else electrical done? if you have it is likely that some wire has come unhooked as well. one more thing to ask, do you have just one switch on the wall for the fan and the light, then you use a pull chain on the fan itself, or do you have 2 switches on the wall for the fan and the light?
That looks almost like my fuse box, except I brew the glass and blue fuses along time ago. They don't seem to do anything. All my outlets and switches still work with the remaining fuses..
Can you explain why those two fuses are different?
The glass fuses are just an older style of fuse, and the newer ones are color coded. The blue ones are 15 amp, the orange ones are 20 amp, and the green ones are 30 amp. In the case of this panel, that is just what is installed in those particular sockets, but when it is actually installed in a house, the fuse type would be associated with what the circuit it is powering is rated for.
@@WalterKnox Thanks for the info. I was worried the glass fuse was some kind of safety feature. I've been living with two empty sockets for years.
@@williampennjr.4448 Nope. The glass fuse is just an older style of the same thing. I guess if nothing isn't working, than whatever those circuits feed isn't that important, so I wouldn't worry about it.
Is there an easy way to identify the gauge of wiring to an outlet?
It depends on skill level. Easy as in just look at it without doing anything, no. You have to either remove the panel cover on the fuse panel, and look at the wire to see what size it is, or open up the receptacle box, pull out the receptacle and then look at the wire to tell what gauge it is. Either way, it won't say clearly anywhere, you just have to kind of know what you are looking at to tell the size.
12:05 - There is actually a third brand of dangerous panel, mainly from the 80's -- Challenger. They also fail to trip when necessary.
yep, them, FPE, zinsco and pushmatic are the worst. but we will likely go over all of those in another video
A fuse port for the knob bulb on mine in this
Old build apartment from 1976 is just not working at all. I can’t afford to replace this entire thing, the whole apartment might need rewiring, thats a headache. I need a solution to bring back power to the knob port that brought 2 rooms electricity. How on earth do i do this?? They did use lots of electricity. But what i don’t get is that i never replaced the knobs with anything except 15amp. Likely because theres a lot of modern electronics. What are my options? Realisticlly pls, specify please someone!!
Rewiring is likely not needed. People are afraid of old wiring and like to rip it out just because it is old, sadly this is what most electricians will want you to do. However, knob and tube wiring has not been used since the 30s, so if the building is from 1976, it isn't knob and tube. Altghough your description of "not working" is very vague, so I can't give you a precise answer. Not that I could over the internet anyway.
Amazing tutorial!!
Any videos on removing broken fuses or adapters from the seat?
no, i have removed a couple, but there is not really a "correct" way to do it. they used to make a tool (still may) but it is expensive as hell, and all it does is cut it apart. the only way to really remove them is to break and bend them apart being careful not to damage the socket they are in. this is something that should not be attempted on a live panel, and even then you are likely to cause damage. sometimes you get lucky and they aren't seated in properly, and just twist out, but i have only seen that once.
@@WalterKnox yeah I figured that much. Thanks for the reply and for posting great content.👊⚡
@@michaelleddy3701 No problem.
Frankly, I'd rather have fuses than circuit breakers, a lead link of a certain gage will always melt
at a pre-determined amount of current. a home with enough circuits and fuses will never have
any problems. also with fuses and a pull-out style mains is nice cuz if u hook up a generator,
pull the mains and there is NO way power will leave your home, going up the service drops and
using the transformers secondary as a primary.
The men who wired homes back in the day were true craftsmen, western union splices, friction
tape was used a slightly tarry cloth. Not many ins. companies will allow KnT, maybe for a few
months.
FPE, yup I had a clothes dryer short out, burned a hole thru the steel backplate breakers never
tripped, had a space heater short out at the cord as it left the heater, nice ball of white and the
breaker never tripped.
Yep. the only way a fuse will ever fail is open, they don't get welded shut or stuck like breakers (even good brands) do . Knob and tube is great if in good shape, but many are afraid of it. People just see that things are old and think that they are bad, most of the times that is not the case, and many times is opposite from the truth. if in good shape, old wiring is perfectly safe as long as you know and respect it's limitations and work around them in a safe way.
Yeah, FPE sucks. I am lucky enough to have one of those things on my house and I have had a few dead shorts. I have never had one fail to trip, but have seen them where I feel they took too long to trip. Although at a friends house I have seen a dead short with an extension cord that got closed in the door, and it melted and did not trip at all, so it certainly happens.
On a side note, My grandfather was switching out a light switch for a ceiling fan one time and the wire shorted to the metal box with his screwdriver (yeah, he was doing the work live) it gave a nice spark, but was only an instant. The breaker did not trip... About 10 minutes later after everything was done, the lights went out. The breaker had about a 10 minute delayed reaction to the short. That was a Zinsco panel. You don't any see issues like this with a fuse.
@@WalterKnox yes it is a shame that some have no real respect for 'Lektrizity
if it's not in their house. I heard Zinsco has/had aluminum bus bars. That is
bad as they will expand and contract enough to cause looseness of breakers
where contact is made to the busbars. I have seen some fuse panels that take a
smaller cartridge fuse rated 250 volts and there would be 2 in a small bakelite
pull-out for a clothes dryer, water heater air conditioner, some multi-wire circuit.
I have heard that homeowner ins. companies will not insure KnT wiring, or they
will for a short time, fully expecting the homeowner to have it removed.
@@raymondgarafano8604 yeah, it is like that. I think it really depends on the areas. Around here, from the limited experience I have had and heard from friends and family buying houses, you just have to have it checked out, and if it is in good shape they don't seem to mind too much. But a lot of the houses around here are old farm houses and such.
Yeah, Zinsco panels are bad, I would actually say worse than FPE. They use thin aluminum bus bars which are supported by brittle plastic, and the breakers clip on with aluminum springs that get weak and then get hot and melt to the bus bars. The reason I say they are worse, is generally FPE panels only fail when there is a fault and they will not trip, Zinsco panels also fail to trip a lot, but they also melt themselves under normal operation.
How can a house lose power in half the house with a fuse panel? The canister fuses? Or multiple fuses blowing? Also are subpanels normal with fuse panel installs or are those something often installed at a later date?
if the subpanel is a breaker panel it was likely installed at a later date, if it is a fuse panel, it could have been at the same time, i can't say for sure. most likely if more than one circuit have died at the same time it is one of the main cartridge fuses, but it is easy to tell if the little twist in fuses are blown by just looking at them, if they have a little black spot, or the link is broken inside, it is blown. if not then it is likely okay. you could try switching your two cartridge fuses around and seeing if stuff that was not working before is after switching them, if so then it is a cartridge fuse, if not then it is multiple of the smaller ones.
OK I need help. All I see is an an area code on the wall where there’s a bunch of old wires and six sets of fuses and that’s it. No other switches. Unfortunately it looks like perhaps a landlord me to replace some of the fuses with bigger pieces because he’s got three of the 25 and three of the 30 doesn’t seem to add up to 60. Now I have a box of 4 of the 15 fuses. should I replace score of them and make sure just adds up to 30? Or do I need to know what goes where I guess I need to speak to the landlord because I’m pretty sure the circuit breaker is in the basement and I don’t have access to that.
The lightsjust go on and off sometimes so I turn them all off and I am unplugging appliances and not using all at once
First off, if the lights are flickering or anything, you have another issue not related to fuses being the incorrect size. There may not be a circuit breaker anywhere, it isn't uncommon for older houses to have one fuse panel that controls everything int he house. As for adding up to 60, it isn't that simple. Power comes in on two lines, and there is a neutral in the middle. There is 60 amps PER LEG, which means you can have more then 60 amps in total. However, it is likely not right if there are mostly 25 and 30 amp fuses, but you cannot just assume that, more likely than not, if there are larger fuses where a smaller one should be, they were put there because the fuse kept blowing, so someone put a larger one in. This is dangerous and should be taken care of, but it is also possible that the fuses are powering a circuit that really is designed for that much current, you really need to know what is on the circuit and what size wire it is before you start switching things around.
It sounds to me like you need to have an electrician come out and at very least inspect the panel to tell you what size fuses you need to have where. They could install "S adapters" which will make it so only the correct size fuses will fit. They also should look at that issue with your lights because I really could not tell you anything over the internet, but it doesn't sound good.
@@WalterKnox thank you so much for answering. I kind of figured it out even when I was asking the question that it wasn’t that simple as changing out the fuses I will have to ask the landlord who I am having a contentious relationship with right now as he is making me a room move and selling my house. He lives downstairs and like I said, I think the box with the breakers is in the basement. It’s a really old house like almost 100 years old I think. The lights have now stopped flickering, because I keep on unplugging things not in use, and when I use an appliance, I am unplugging turn off everything else. I think it’s mainly the air conditioners that are causing problems so like I said, turned off all the lights unplugged everything obviously can’t unplug the refrigerator. I think the hot water heater is also unplugged. I don’t have hot water so as you can see, I have a host of problems that cannot be explained over the Internet. I need help, but I’m going to have to see how I can fix the relationship with the landlord/stepfather first I guess.
@Walter Knox, weve been in our house for a lil over two years and just last month we went through about 5 fuses and nothing has changed about our daily lives and the energy were using. Notnsure what the hell is wrong
It sounds like something is using more power than it used to/is supposed to and is popping the fuse. Is it always the same circuit? What is on the circuit?
@@WalterKnox we have an 8 fuse box, on the left from top to bottom it is 20A, 20A, S15, S15. On the right there is from top to bottom TL15, S15, S15, SL15. The SL15 keeps blowing since June. And it affects the upstairs. After watching your video I notice the TL15 is loose. Like I can turn it to tighten but it doesnt. I just unscrewed everything and put them back. I dont have the reference with me, like your video. Thats my problem too.
@@ReaperWolf68 if you are unsure, I would have someone look at it; although it is hard to find an electrician which won’t just try to sell you a new panel install because it is “outdated.” You likely have something drawing more current than it is supposed to do, or the fuse is heating up due to a poor connection. When it is working, after a while take out the fuse and feel the metal parts (ON THE FUSE, NOT THE PANEL, THE PANEL IS LIVE) and see if it is hot. If it is, you likely have a bad connection.
Can I install gfci outlets with this type of electrical panel?
yes, a GFCI outlet is always a good thing to install no matter what type of panel you have. if your wiring is 2 wire with no ground it is even better idea to install a GFCI outlet at the beginning of each circuit as that way it is up to code to install regular 3 prong outlets down stream.
How do i test this panel? I have similar one but I’m not sure how to test it with a multimeter. Electric keeps popping and I switched all the fuses.
what do you mean by test the panel? what fuses are blowing, the main 60 amp ones in the cartridge, or the little screw in ones? the panel is most likely not your issue, you are likely drawing too much current on one or more circuits or you have a wiring fault somewhere else.
Hi Can i use P 15 amps to GP 15 amps, What is the difference of this?
I looked it up and it appears that P and GP are the same, they are both non time delay fuses, meaning if there is over current they will open almost immediately as opposed to a GT fuse which is a time delay, and will take a few seconds to open. So you should be perfectly fine interchanging the two. As long as you are staying with the correct amperage which in this case you would be.
Where can i buy the main fuse holder?
That is bot something that is standard or could be bought at a store like Lowe’s or Menards. You have to have the correct one for your exact panel, best bet would be to look it up on eBay and see what you can find.
Hey! I’m moving into an apartment with these kind of fuses. The person who lived there before me had multiple types of fuses attached to the panel. Not sure how to figure out if the right fuses are in the right slots, is there a method to use to figure out what kind of fuse is correct for each slot?
without opening the panel up and seeing what size wire is attached to each circuit it is hard. what you could do is unscrew each fuse and see what it is powering, so when the fuse is unscrewed the power will turn off to whatever it is powering, if it is normal outlets it is most likely a 20, if it is lights it is most likely a 15. for an appliance it is most likely a 20 as well, 30 amp fuses are hardly ever used. the best thing to do would probably be to call an electrician so they can look at the wire size and determine what size fuse goes in what slot. then they could insert what is called an S adapter into the slots, that will make it so that only the correct size fuse will fit and nobody can put in the wrong size fuse.
@@WalterKnox thank you so much for the information! I’ve been going crazy trying to figure it out since the fuses seem to blow often and each slot has a completely different fuse and I don’t want to attach the wrong one and cause issues before moving in! I’ll find an electrician, thank you!
@@NessacxBeauty yeah, that is probably the best bet. if too small of a fuse is used it will constantly blow, but if too large of a fuse is used and it really should be blowing but it is not because it is too big that is even worse. so just get an electrician to figure out what sizes are used and install S adapters so the wrong ones can no longer be installed. it is a very easy task and should not cost too much and it is worth it to ensure nothing will be on fire.
@@WalterKnox appreciate it! Will work on this ASAP ❤️
General rule is there should be no 30 amp fuses (usually green colored) in there feeding anything. 30's are only used for things like water heaters, dryers and A/C units. Nearly all lighting circuits in these are 15 amp, kitchen receptacle circuits are 20 amp.
Idea on why my 20 amp fuse socket has sparking in back once fuse is in and power is on? Sparks sometimes now all only in back of one socket
Is is a screw in type fuse socket or a cartridge? You have a poor connection somewhere... most likely either the fuse socket where it connects to the fuse, or maybe the wire is loose on the screw. Is there any obvious black marks or anything melted or looks like it is rusted or got hot?
What do I need to do if the contract point in box recessed compared to the other circuits which are fine, but I lost a circuit because it recessed
if it is damaged, which it sounds like it is, it is either going to need to be repaired or replaced, but good luck finding parts for a panel that is at least 50 years old. Sadly, if it is not easily fixable it will need to be replaced. But I cannot say for sure without being there.
@@WalterKnox thank you so much for responding,
Can we light a bulb in the box
no.
How did fuse boxes differ from breaker panels?
Fuse panels and breaker panels both do the same thing. If there is a circuit drawing too much current, or a short circuit somewhere, they will stop current flow to that circuit. Fuses have a small thin metal strip inside that melts after a certain amount of current runs through it, once it melts, current cannot flow through it anymore. A circuit breaker on the other hand uses a metallic strip, which holds a spring loaded mechanism in position, when it heats up from too much current, the metallic strip will bend slightly, and the mechanism will move into the tripped position. This will not allow current to flow.
The main difference is the obvious one, which is that when a fuse blows, you have to replace it with a new one. But when a breaker trips, you can just flip it back on and it will continue working.
The main reason why people say breakers are safer than fuses is that the old fuse panels allowed you to use the wrong size fuse, so if you had a circuit designed for 15 amps, and the fuse kept blowing because you were drawing too much current, you could put in a 20 or even a 30 amp fuse and it would work the same. This is dangerous because if the wire is only designed to run 15 amps, it will overheat and can start a fire.
When you replace a fuse, you also have to be very careful as it exposed live metal parts that will shock you if you touch them.
One thing a lot of people don't realize though, is that a fuse will blow faster than a breaker will trip in the case of an over current fault. Fuses are not inherently more dangerous than breakers, and in many cases are safer. If they are used properly, and the correct fuses are used they are perfectly safe.
I didn't get into magnetic trip breakers, or AFCI or GFCI breakers as those are more recent developments. If you want to know more about those, you can do some research. There are many types of breakers, so I just mentioned the standard ones like what would have replaced an old fuse box in the 60s.
at 14:40 you mention the wiring sizes how do I even find out mine?
Someone who has been doing electrical for a while can tell just by looking at them and see what size they are. Although if you haven't there are other ways. if you have newer wiring which is standard romex like today, which is unlikely if you have an old fuse panel. It will say right on it and it is also color coded. White jacket is 14, yellow is 12, and orange is 10. If you have older wire then it can be hard to tell, it may still say on the jacket somewhere if it is a cable. If it is knob and tube then it is safe to assume that it should be on a 15 amp fuse either way. I believe you can also get a wire size gauge.
I need help please. How do I just reset the power. I have kids. So my kid plugged a heater upstairs and the power blew. I went to check box and I have old model like the on seen here with 15 amps. Do I have to buy new bulbs or is there a way I can reset it?
They are not resettable, you can look into the little window on the fuses and see which one is blown, the little metal link will either be split or burned open where the good ones will be one piece. You have to unscrew them and put in a new fuse that is the same type as the old one.
@@WalterKnox so basically just replace the one that is blown. And if that doesn’t work then what? I only say that because he plugged his ps4 and heater up stairs but the power is off everywhere. Downstairs Kitchen, living /dining room?
@@doffydonquixte so the power is off in the whole house? if that is the case then something else may have happened, because if the fuse blew, only the stuff on that circuit would have gone off. You can always see if one is blown, and switch it with another one that is good to see if that restores the power to the places where the power went off, if it does then you can buy a new fuse. If not then there is something else going on.
@@WalterKnox ok and the new fuse is the bulb or the black box you pull out?
@@doffydonquixte the fuse would be the small glass things that unscrew. The black box that you pull out are the two main fuses that power the whole house. It is possible but not likely that one or both of those are bad, but I would start with the smaller ones.
can i take fuse out and leave it empty? is this similar as turning breaker off?
Yes, taking the fuse out does the same thing as turning off the breaker in that there is no current flowing through the circuit it is connected to and it is completely off. The only issue with leaving the slot empty is that the socket itself is still live, so if someone were to stick a finger, or anything else in there, they could get shocked.
If it is only temporary, it would likely be fine, but if you are removing it permanently, you may want to try to find a blown fuse or something to block off the socket. Although you would want to make sure everyone knows the reason the fuse is blown so they don't try to replace it with a new one.
@@WalterKnox thank you sir, I will replace all fuses with screw in breakers.
@@BobbaFett312Just a heads up, those screw in "mini-breakers" don't give you an option to manually turn them off. They just have a "reset" button for when they trip. If you want the power off, you still have to physically remove them.
my fuse panel in my apartment building only has 2 fuses ? 2 made of glass and 2 with a button in the middle ... also when I remove them by unscrewing them not all power turn off only certain part in my apartment turn off ...why's that
the two with a button in the center are mini-breakers, they are basically fuses that can be reset if they trip. the glass ones are the old style one time use fuse.
each fuse does one circuit, so in this case there would be 4 circuit there, so if you unscrew all 4 of them and the power stays on, then power is coming from somewhere else besides from that panel.
They bonded ground with neutral back in the day?
In main panels, they sometimes did. Most of the times for branch circuits, there were only two wires, hot and neutral. And no ground or bond at all. Although some hack job people will bond the ground and neutral to fool an outlet tester known as a “bootleg ground” these days, but this should not be done as it can pose hazards in itself. The only way to ground an ungrounded receptacle legally is to re run with new wiring, although a GFCI can be used in place of an old 2 prong receptacle and will protect against ground faults.
So they didn't bond in fuse panels
@@WalterKnox a fault wont be cleared if its not bonded adding to the danger expecially oversized fuse.
@@albertl2542 Correct. However, a GFCI will detect a ground fault and trip, but that is still not a replacement for a proper equipment ground. But that is the next best fix besides for replacing all the wiring.
To be clear, it depends on the installation and when it was installed. In the 20s-40s there was normally no ground at all, even in the panel, although some of the really early stuff there wasn't really a "panel" but a cabinet that had ceramic fuse holders inside of it. Then from the 50s-early 60s they normally did have a ground in the panel to which it was bonded, but they normally did not run a ground to the branch circuits except for large appliances. Then from around the mid 60s onward they did run a ground wire with all of the branch circuits, and everything was for the most part bonded like it is today. It was not required however to run a grounding wire to receptacle and lighting circuits until 1971, so if someone was being especially cheap back in the day, they still might not have.
How do you remove one that’s broken off in the panel ?
If it is just a regular fuse that is broken off in the socket, you need to remove the main fuses and make sure the power is off, then you can carefully remove it with something like a pair of needle nose pliers.
We used to have fuses but my dad had it replaced with modern breaker switches.
okay.
I have 3 round fuses that has no current. What should I look for ? Thx
If you look into the little glass window of the fuse, there should be a little metal link. if it is broken, the fuse is blown. replace it.
@@WalterKnox Thx for quick reply…. I checked and fuse was good. Where should I look next ? Cold on Christmas Eve lol.
@@arch5578 okay, so you say that you have no power on 3 different fuses and they are all okay? Have you checked your main fuses if you have them? They are in a cartridge that should say something like "main". If one of those is out, half of your circuits won't work. What you could do is remove both fuses from the cartridge, and then switch them around. So that way, if one if blown, it will be on the other side. Then, when you put them back in, the circuits that weren't working before should be working, but other ones won't. But if this is the case, you know the fuse is blown, so you will just have to go get a new one (and if that is the case, I would get 2 new ones and just replace them both)
If that still isn't the case, it is most likely something has failed. I am not sure of the exact way your panel is set up, but it could be a bad connection that failed, or a burned wire, or something as simple as a loose screw. Either way, if that is the case, I can't really help to diagnose it over the internet.
I Live in a 1903 Duplex and all the fuses in there are Tl 30 amp's and lately if I run the Coffee pot or the AC I get up to 1 Min of 90% power decrease and flutter blinking . There are 4 in each Box and there are 2 unknown on the Main , then there are the long fuses witch look very corrosive ? Scary to me .
First off, I highly doubt all of the fuses are supposed to be 30 amps. They should likely be 15 or 20s, but without actually knowing what size wire it is, I can't say. Also, if the fuses are corroded that needs top be fixed. You have a bad connection somewhere, which causes heat which will eventually cause a fire.
@@WalterKnox Well all 8 in the 2 Boxes were 30 Amp , I will buy more ... The Main off \ 0n switch has 2 fuses also , I can't yet tell the amps rating . and then there are 2 Long shotgun shell looking fuses in those pull out cases 4 in all , When I make coffee all the house lights get so dim I can't really see "\ Same when the AC a window unit cycles .
@@QuaaludeCharlie Something is definitely wrong there, most likely you have a poor connection somewhere. Having all 30 amp fuses is almost certainly wrong as well. This should also be taken seriously as it can cause the wires to overheat if too much current passes through them and it could start a fire. You (or the owner of the building?) should certainly have someone look at it who knows what they are doing. Bad news is that if it is like many landlords, they simply do not care if something is dangerous as long as it works, and there is a good chance they put the 30 amp fuses in place. You definitely need an evaluation by someone who knows the subject. Since I am not there to tell you what you need, and this is a safety issue. I am no longer able to offer advice for your situation.
@@WalterKnox I Own the House , Dad passed and left it . Thank you though , I was an apprentice but never an electrician , I should call one .
@@QuaaludeCharlie Yeah, that would be your best bet. Sorry I couldn't be more of a help, but if something is a safety issue, I don't like to give advice over the internet.
Great information
Glad it was helpful!
Okay so my dryer runs on 2 30amp glass fuses, one fuse keeps getting hot and blowing, did a draw on the dryer it was pulling 226 volts, is the dryer the issue or something in the panel?
It sounds like you need an electrician to come look at it. Most likely if multiple fuses have blown, you have an issue with the dryer or something pulling too much current and not an issue with the panel.
There is no such thing as a device "pulling" voltage. The voltage is 220 no matter what, that is just the voltage being supplied to the dryer. It "pulls" amps, which should be under 30.
@@WalterKnox This was done by an electrician🤷 but he wanted a ridiculous amount to replace the panel and then said it could keep happening if it's the dryer so now I'm completely confused 😕
@@WalterKnox When he stuck the multimeter in the plug it was 218 volts, turned on the dryer and said it was 226 volts... I know nothing about electrical so just looking for another opinion.
@@forterierocks Okay. I think I understand. Yeah, I cannot say for sure without being there to look at it, but if I were you, I would have another electrician from another company come look at it. I see no reason why the whole panel would need to be replaced unless it is physically damaged or something, but it doesn't really sound like it.
I don't see how the voltage would go up when the dryer is on, if anything it would go down slightly, but not that much.
My guess would be that for some reason the dryer is pulling too much current.
It sounds to me like they were just trying to sell you something. To properly diagnose if it is the dryer pulling too much current, they would need to measure that amperage the dryer is using, and not the voltage being supplied to it.
It seems like people these days have been conditioned to be scared of anything old like a fuse panel, and sadly a lot of electricians and people in general try to profit off of that. If the panel is in okay shape and is working as it should, There is really no reason for it to be replaced.
One thing to look at is the fuse socket, remove both fuses for the dryer and look inside the socket (do not touch) for any rust or corrosion. If there is no rust or corrosion, it is likely not the panel, there really is not much to go wrong there.
It's quite often a matter of insurabilty and resale that most fusepanels and some early breaker panels are replaced on top of most remaining ones having little or no empty space.
yeah, i hear that alot. i think it really depends on the insurance company or where you are located. we sold a house like 3 years ago with 60 amp service for the whole house and a fuse panel, had no problems with that, the guy got a loan and insurance on the house just fine, and we knew him and the house had the same panel up until he passed away and his sister sold the house and it still had the same panel then as well, i am unsure if it still does. the house we have now has 100 amp service, but it has a federal pacific main panel for the big things like the heat and the water heater, and we have a sub-panel in the house which is a fuse panel that does everything inside. we have never had an issue when buying the house or getting insurance on that. they sent a guy out to inspect everything, he did note that we had an old fuse panel and he said everything was in good shape and should be perfectly fine. of course he did recommend replacement of the federal pacific panel, which is something we are eventually going to do.
@@WalterKnox it seems to depend on who the buyer is. Even though Ontario, Canada where the real estate market is very heated removal of all remaining knob and tube is a common condition of sale.
@@robertsitch1415yeah. people are afraid of things i guess. as long as you respect the limitations of this old stuff including knob and tube wiring, if it is in good shape it is perfectly safe to continue using.
@@WalterKnox it's mostly done because few insurance companies want to cover it and in my area most of it was installed in homes about 90 to 100 years ago so it's seldom in great condition.
@@WalterKnox another reason why it depends upon the buyer a lot of the time is that most people want to gut a kitchen that is more than a few decades old and not well layed out so that requires new circuits. Another reason why a new 200 amp service is likely to be installed before or shortly after the war sale is if the new owner wants a hot tub or mabey an EV charging station.
Can It be back powered
if by back powered, you mean feed power in through a circuit, yes it can, but should not be. In order to safely and legally be back fed, there must be an interlocking device which does not allow the service power to be on at the same time as the power being fed into it, with most modern breaker panels, that is just a plate between the breakers so that only one can be on at a time. There is no real way to do this with one of these as to shut off the service, the main fuses must be removed.
If i were to use a three pronged outlet with one of these and tie the ground to neutral what would happen?
In theory (and in practice in most cases,) nothing would happen. This used to be (and still is somewhat) a trick people would do when they were selling a house was to install 3 prong receptacles and connect the ground in with the neutral, this is commonly referred to as a "bootleg ground." This would fool plug in testers that inspectors would commonly carry with them, so at a quick glance everything appears to be correct. It is however NOT a good idea and can pose some pretty bad shock risks in the event of the failure. One of the main risks is if there was a failure of the neutral wire but the hot wire were to remain live, you would then have the body of metal appliances become live, which is extremely dangerous. You would honestly be better off just not connecting anything to the ground terminal.
The best solution to needing a 3 prong outlet, but not having a ground wire is to replace the receptacle with a GFCI, if you replace the first one in the string of receptacles, then you can simply replace all of the subsequent receptacles with standard 3 prong units as they will be protected by the GFCI. This (other than rewiring the whole circuit) is the only way accepted by NEC.
It is also worth noting that just because a house has an old type fuse panel like this, it does not necessarily have ungrounded receptacles/wiring. These panels were used in some capacity through the 50s/60s, and even some into the 70s; by that point many houses were wired with grounded wire. I have actually seen a couple of cases where the wire running to the box had a ground wire (or the box was solidly grounded) but 2 prong receptacles were used anyway, so that was just a direct replacement with no modification or special fittings needed.
@@WalterKnox,
Thank you for the response, it is a sub panel in a detached garage so there’s that, additionally there is no ground wire coming from the service panel to the garage, so I couldn’t really ground the outlets regardless. There is a copper wire going straight into the earth from the sub panel though. It is kind of funny that in the main panel the ground ties up with the neutral anyway, so I’m here thinking “since they touch there, why don’t you just link them at the receptacle? It’d be easier that way!”
If I install a GFCI, could I then use a video game console and tv? Or would that be harmful to the electronics?
Yeah, you can bond the neutral and grounds together in a main panel, but not in a sub-panel (although it is still done sometimes, it is illegal.) Even though I am a licensed electrician (although barely at this point,) I still don’t fully understand why that is, or why it is safe to tie them together in the panel but not at the end of the receptacle; but I guess that is why engineers design things certain ways, I just install and repair them.
Installing a GFCI would provide ground fault protection in the event that a device failed and had a hot to ground short of any sort. That is all a GFCI does, it protects you from getting shocked. Stuff like surge protectors do need a solid ground connection to effectively suppress power surges, as they send any surges back to ground. So in the event of a power surge, there is a slightly higher risk of a sensitive device getting damaged, but it isn’t a guarantee or even a large risk. I have a house with mostly no ground aside from kitchens and bathrooms, and I have never (to my knowledge) had anything damaged as a result in the 21 years I have lived here.
@@WalterKnox,
Thanks for the tip, if an electrician were to run a ground from the main panel to the sub panel and then wire everything correctly could you still use the older fuse box?
@@jacknedry3925 should be able to, they would just need to ad a ground bar to the panel. All the wire going to the circuits would have to be replaced with 3 wire was well. There is no safety (or code) issue with having ground in an old fuse panel, towards the end many of them were wired with grounding conductors.
Good luck finding an electrician willing to do that though, most of them (including the company I work for) won’t do any substantial work on a fuse panel unless it is replacing it.
I put in new fuse and still not working? Would could it be
if the fuse you replaced was the correct one, and the new one did not blow instantly, you have an open circuit somewhere. (if the new fuse is blown, and blew instantly, you have a short somewhere). I am not sure on how your house is wired, but it is possible that receptacles or devices are wired through each other. if that is the case, something could have come off of the first one in the circuit and is not allowing power through. It could also be an issue with the fuse socket or something. other than that, without knowing more information or being there to look at it, I could not tell you. The best bet is to get someone who knows this stuff to look at it.
They also make “circuit breaker” screw in fuses now.😉
yeah, I am not a big fan of those, but they are an option.
@@WalterKnox replaced all mine w/ those. 😜
@@JohnStevenson1001 okay, that does not change the fact that I am not a big fan of them...
@@WalterKnox just havin sum fun with yah. One “tradesman” to another. 😉
My fuse box broke it won’t turn on my electricity at all and I see sparks down the left bottom like it’s melted . What should I do ?I’m sitting in the dark only my kitchen light works the superior keep putting the power on but nothing
What material I would have to buy for somebody to fix it ? Thanks
@@Surviving695 I can't really tell exactly what you need over the internet, or from the description of "it's broken" or "like it's melted". But if something really is melting, or you are seeing sparks, you have a bad connection, or something is drawing too much current and has caused this. Either way, this is a safety concern at this point, and not a concern of just getting the power back on and I will not offer any advice over the internet. Most likely if the panel is damaged to the point that it sounds like it is, the whole panel is going to need to be replaced, as replacement parts other than just fuses aren't really obtainable anymore.
You need to call an electrician ASAP, and if you are seeing sparks, or something is getting hot, you need to disconnect the power by either shutting off the main breaker if you have one, or pulling the main fuse.
@@WalterKnox thanks for answering and I live in apartment building so can’t really turn off anything . So if I hire electrician what to tell them because I’m not sure what to say thanks
Is your email listed to shown a picture ?
@@Surviving695 Just tell them that you are having an issue with your fuse panel, they should be able to assess it and tell you what you need. Although if you are in an apartment, you may want to ask them what to do, as a lot of times they will be weird about things, or may have an answer for you. You can send a picture to the email listed in the about section of my channel if you want to, but my advice will most likely still be the same for this situation.
Pishomatic were deemed dangours. I had one. When u turn off main. Some breakers stay on
Yes, although they were nowhere near as bad as a Federal Pacific or sins I panel, they did have a few design issues!
it is "pushmatic" not "pushomatic"
@@WalterKnox And certainly not, "Pishomatic."
@@GuyWithTheDogs oh... did not even notice that part because i was too focused on the O that did not belong.
What happens if someone were to screw in a light bulb into the fuse socket?
The lightbulb would be in series with everything in that circuit. Depending on how much current is being drawn by the circuit, the light bulb may light dimly or it might light brightly. Most certainly nothing on that circuit would have enough voltage to operate properly and would either operate incorrectly or not at all.
This is assuming it is a real lightbulb with an incandescent filament. An LED or a CFL would act differently.
@@WalterKnox interesting! How did you learn all this?
@@veziculorile I guess I just have spent a lot of time researching and playing with old equipment. I am by no means an expert or anything. As far as putting a lightbulb into it. They have this thing called a dim bulb tester, we use them on old radios and stuff that has not been used in many year. it is just a light socket wired in series with an outlet. so if something is wrong with the device and it is shorted, the bulb will light up brightly and not damage anything, if there is nothing wrong the bulb will most likely glow really dim. So it is the same thing because the fuse is wired in series with the load, and the socket is the same, so if you but a light bulb in series with it, the same thing would happen there. I am not sure what a CFL or an LED would do though. probably nothing would work as they are very low current.
Very old school electricians would troubleshoot a short circuit by screwing a light bulb in the fuse socket. Or with a circuit breaker panel they would use a lamp socket with leads and pigtail one lead onto the circuit wire and put the other lead into the breaker. If the bulb burns at full brightness there is a short circuit. When the short is removed the bulb will be dimmer because it's in series with the load, the larger the load the brighter the bulb.
Is it possible to somehow add ground to a circuit in one of these old fuse boxes? Great video btw! Long live Windows XP 😆
It is, there is no bar for ground, but depending on your panel, you may be able to purchase and fit a ground bar. All you would need from there is a good solid ground connection, and you would run your ground wire to that, and all of your grounds for the branch circuits from it as well.
If there is not room for a ground bar, and you only need to ground 1 or 2 circuits, you could also just run in a ground, and use a wire nut to attach the ground together. Not up to code, but as long as it is not touching anything, it is technically okay and better than no ground at all.
I discovered old fuse panels watching a vintage Three Stooges comedy short film.
Our generation is screwed.
Honestly, old fuse panels are safer and more reliable than modern breaker panels. The only feature they are missing is arc fault protection, which in my opinion is annoying and overkill anyway.
In the event of a short circuit or a huge overload situation, a fuse will blow faster than a breaker can trip; which is why a lot of sensitive electronics are still protected by fuses, as well as larger equipment is often still protected by fuses as well.
The only real danger of a fuse panel is idiots putting in the wrong size fuses (or a penny) and burning down their house. I guess sticking your finger in the fuse socket while it is live is a danger I overlook as well because I have common sense, but that seems to have gone out the window years ago for most people.
The safety type plug fuses do not interchange.
Correct, but the majority of these panels still use the standard Edison base fuses which can be interchanged which leads to dangerous situations
While removing or installing a fuse, should we put the main switch off?
You really should, most people don't though (I am guilty of that as well) because they say "I am careful and won't get shocked" but it really is not about getting shocked, every time you make electrical contact with a device that is live it sparks, I am sure you have seen a plug spark when you plug it in, well a fuse which is powering a circuit is going to spark more than that, you won't see it because it is at the bottom where it makes contact, but after enough times it may cause the contacts in your panel to wear out and not make as good of a connection, which can cause all sorts of problems. It probably won't happen, but still a good idea to turn off the power to that panel.
How do you turn the power off to that panel?
@@kristensacco3727 go to the main panel that is supplying power to that sub panel. One of the breakers will be supplying power to that sub panel. If there is no markings you can find it by process of elimination. . TURN off one at a time untill you find the one that powers the sub panel with fuses..
Some folks put a penny before the fuse?
Yes, that was something that could be done back in the day. It is NOT a good idea though.
I want to get adapter out not making connection
you mean the S adapter sleeve that goes to the S type fuses like shown instead of the regular fuses? why is it not making a connection? are you sure you are using the correct rated fuse? they are designed so that if you use the wrong fuse, it will not make a connection.
@@WalterKnox yes just using 20 amp fuse no power to terminal below fuse I take a meter to screw in socket and to where top of adapter is get 120 volts just nothing where fuse is in? I know adapter doesn’t support 30 amp fuses but what about adapter only for 15 amp could that be my problem
@@frankspliff7037 is the fuse 100% for sure not blown? if you have another fuse and you have not already try switching it. honestly I don't like those adapters. if you are not using the right fuse it wont work... was it working before with the same size fuse? and is every other circuit on the panel working?
if you have power at the center of the fuse holder, and the fuse is good and the right size, there should be no reason it does not make a connection. there really is no good way to remove them, they can not be removed without breaking them, so you can either break them up and remove the pieces with a screwdriver or use a special tool, I have never used the tool and don't know how to use it, but it can be got here www.ebay.com/itm/Trico-38080-X-Tract-O-Fuse-Adapter-Remover-/254783602827?_ul=IL
they have not made them for many years and they cost an arm and a leg. from what I have heard they are not really easy to remove and they can cause damage to the panel as well. so really there is no good way to remove it.
@@WalterKnox thanks for the help I will keep trying some stuff
Holy dizzy Batman. Put your camera on a funding tripod.
the video gets the point across does it not? if you don't want to watch the video then you do not have to, but there is a bunch of great info in it if you would pay attention to what is actually going on in the video instead of running to the comments section to complain about the video quality. I make these videos to help or entertain people, I make no money off of them, i just share because someone may find it useful, if you don't like the quality of the video you can send me some money and i will buy a tripod, otherwise just watch the video the way it is, or don't watch it at all, your call.
What is a "funding tripod"?
@@GuyWithTheDogs who knows, these people seem to live under a rock and not understand that most everything is not perfect.
hook it up and put a bulb in
What would be the purpose of that? This panel is currently serving it's intended purpose in my workshop.
Very informative. You answered (eventually) the one question I was seeking an answer to: “Do not use a higher value fuse as it will dangerously overheat your wires before “breaking.” It should’ve ended there. However, your casual DIY delivery may give a layperson a false sense of security while attempting to even investigate their panel or, God forbid, try to clean it. The fact that you are demo-ing on a dead/dummy panel adds to this misperception. You have your hands and fingers in areas that would normally be “live.” You should take this video down until you re-edit it with clearer warnings. Unless you are a licensed electrician, do not mess around with the power in your home or business. Would you perform heart surgery or a root canal on yourself? You mean well, but your video will likely lead to someone’s electrocution.
I made a very clear warning not to do anything shown in this video unless you know what you are doing, and if you do not to call a licensed electrician. Most of what I was showing with the dead front removed could have been done with it in place, like removing or replacing a fuse, which is something that can be done without being an electrician as long as you know what not to touch. Although it is mentioned that it is best to remove the main cartridge fuse before doing so. The main purpose of this video is to explain that an old fuse panel is perfectly safe if used properly, and the main danger with them is user error such as overfusing a circuit, which is explained in the video. I will certainly not take the video down as I am not telling anyone to do anything other than explaining some common misconceptions. It is not an instruction video of any kind and that is made clear. There are many videos on youtube of people showing people how to do something that is actually dangerous, this is not one of them.
Either way, if someone is going to play around with their electrical system without knowing what they are doing (which is not something I condone) they are going to with or without this video.
Okay, so you edited your original comment (again) but this still does not change the answer or make you correct. And Honestly, if you don’t know not to use a larger fuse than what the wife can handle... maybe you should re evaluate yourself instead of evaluating me.
And the video is not catered to you specifically. It shouldn’t just end after answering YOUR question. Someone else may have another question hence why I overviewed many other things. It is not all about you.
Chill
@@theofficialmakeawishfounda6924 if you were not here for the original exchange, you shouldn't be telling anyone to chill. This guy has changed his comment 4 different times now. And his last one, one of his points is that I took to long to answer HIS question. Every time I replied to his comment, he changed it to make it sound like I am the one being an asshole by removing the context to what I am replying to.
Greetings, Romex is listed as having a temp of 192 degrees at full load. So a 14 gage
wire with 15 amps flowing through it can't exceed that temp. If the current is doubled,
30 amps, the temp will very quickly climb to 768 which will have a most disasterous
effect.
Blowing is a sudden amount of high current that will leave the window of the fuse 'blackened'
This would be a direct short like a bad extension cord or appliance. A fuse that opened due to
an overload would have a clear window and you would see the melted link.
Yes, that is correct.
Although generally, even if the fuse was not violently blown from a dead short, a bad fuse is often referred to as a blown fuse, so calling it such wouldn't really be wrong.
@@WalterKnox True, but it gives the person an idea as to what happened, an overload as compared to a 'short.'
@@raymondgarafano8604 correct. Maybe I should have explained that, but it is hard to remember everything at once.
@@WalterKnox quite true.
How can u tell if ones blown cause mine aren't labeled to tell what each one is for
look through the little window or glass on the fuse, there is a small metal strip inside of them. if the metal strip is in one piece it is not blown, if the metal strip is broken then it is blown. also, if the little window is blackened then it is blown.
@@WalterKnox thank you very much I appreciate it