Good overall video on doing the timing chains on these GM 3.6 l One critical piece of information though before you even start the job. If you're attempting to do this with the motor still in which I have done many many many times for front wheel drive vehicles such as the Arcadia traverse terrain and Buick and even some old Saturns that use this motor The hardest part of the entire job can be just getting the effing crank pulley off. A lot of people grind down modify a three jaw puller From places such as harbor freight but there's not a whole lot of clearance between the frame rail where the crank pulley sits Get yourself the OEM GM or good eBay knock off crank pulley remover tool for this motor. It's not a three jaw puller it's a one piece design that slips perfectly over the crank pulley on these gm3.6 motors giving you the clearance you need Or you'll never even be able to start to get your timing chains off because you won't be able to pull the timing chain cover or anything else you will quit before you even start just trying to get the damn crank pulley off if you don't have the proper tool. Other side notes go with the cloyes timing chain kit spend the 400 bucks for the love of God there are lots of $200 Chinese timing chain kits for sale on eBay and Amazon everyone ive helped do one of these 3.6 motors with the Chinese kits the timing chain tensioners and other components always fail within a year You are not saving a couple bucks by going with cheap parts. You'll be doing the job again prematurely. Other notes would include this is an interference engine. If your cam phasers go bad if you're lucky the motor will just click But if this does jump out of time you will bend valves and if that happens of course you replacing valves by removing the heads You're also looking at replacing the cam phasers that's another part do not go aftermarket on there's lots of Chinese knockoffs on Amazon and eBay they only cost about $20 more a piece for the OEM GM cam phasers did make the note in this video which I've seen people miss Both left and right bank exhaust cam phasers are the same same GM part number But I've worked on 3.6l that are still throwing codes because people don't realize when changing the intake phasers there are separate part numbers there is a left and a right intake when lining up your timing chain marks Up top on the phasers when your cams are flat as he explains in the video you have a little circle and a triangle on the phasers One way to tell if you have it right is you should have 12 links between the exhaust and intake phaser on each Bank You can think you have it right assemble the whole vehicle it will start and it will run but after it warms up in the O2 sensors kick on and starts talking to the computer and running efficiently it'll start throwing codes Because your cam phasers or not installed correctly as in you ordered a cheap eBay intake phasers I sent you two of the same model number I've seen this happen many times not realizing there's a left bank right Bank intake phaser and the vehicle will run but not right and throw codes. It's not an overly complex hard job to do Just make sure you have every correct part and it's a quality part before you attempt this job. And one last very very very very important part for the do-it-yourselfer attempting this with oil pump replacement do not immediately when completing this job fire your vehicle up these GM 3.6 l they need a minute or two of cranking to prime correctly when you're completely done with the job leave the spark plugs out and make sure on the under the hood fuse panel you pull the fuel pump fuse verified I don't even hook the fuel line up to the fuel rail so when the keys in the on position nothing is being pumped from the tank up to the motor then crank the vehicle over when the mentioned above is verified I start with 5 seconds of cranking and let the vehicle sit for about half a minute Then I'll continue cranking for 10 seconds let it sit for another half a minute all the way till I crank it till about 15 to 20 seconds just to make damn sure the new pump is primed and has sent oil all the way from the bottom of the pan up through the heads lubing up the phasers in the Cam's good in the hydraulic timing chain tensioners before finally dropping the spark plugs back in popping back in the fuel pump fuse and finally allowing the vehicle to start then you won't have any clicking or knocking noise because the vehicle's been oil primed well. I mention this comment because one of the first traverses I worked on with the stretch timing chain issue and the oil pump changed and everything was done correctly but not properly primed newly installed oil pump And the vehicle ran dry for the first couple seconds which was enough to actually score the crank bearings on this gm 3.6 engine As with all engines especially this one some are more tolerant than others quality oil and oil pressure are everything to this engine I firmly believe half the timing chain stretch issues are related to this motor because people do not do enough oil changes gunking this GM 3.6 l motor up. And piss poor GM engineering on the right Bank crankcase ventilation system on this engine. This can be a Very good quality engine as long as you keep them clean a $50 full synthetic oil change every 6 months or 5,000 miles this engine easily make it to 200k Plus trying to skip oil changes driving 10 to 20K miles between oil changes and I've seen these motors grenade before they reach the 100K mark. And the very very last note People don't realize GM had a problem with this vehicle when it's throwing codes Saying the timings off and a vehicle is not making any clicking or rattling noises ie everything is nice and tight the way it should be the earlier year GM 3.6 l I believe it was the 2007 models the pulse ring which is a gear that is pressed onto the back of the crankshaft again was only pressed on from the factory and not welded and what happens is after a period of time certain 3.6 l motors because they were not welded onto the crank but only press fit pulse ring tone gear different people call them different things is what your crankshaft position sensor on the back of the motor reads to send a signal to the computer to make sure everything's timed and firing right if you are unfortunate enough to have one of these tone rings that slips in the crankshaft no amount of timing chains and switching sensors will fix it the only thing that does it is changing the crankshaft out which the labor involved it's normally cheaper just to get a new motor. Not a common problem but one that has been documented with this 3.6 l motor. And is one of the causes of the dreaded check engine light timing is not with in tolerance code.
I purchased a 2011 Chevrolet Traverse new. I changed oil at 75% to 90% of the oil indicator. I used oil specified by GM. API rating, oil weight and Dexos rated. Mostly Mobile 1. I used GM oil the first couple of years, as Dexos rated oil was difficult to find. I gave my Traverse to my sister in 2022 with 180,000 miles. My sister is still driving it. Has about 200,000 miles. Original timing chains. I was careful about oil changes and followed GM’s specifications. I made sure crankcase breathing system was operating correctly and oil level was maintained. It did not consume oil. Worked out for me. YMMV.
Very good info thanks, I'm just preparing to do a 3.2L that has 3 out of 4 timing position sensors throwing codes. I'm beginning to wonder if someone already screwed it up
My name is James. I have a 2009 Cadillac CTS with a 3.6. I watched your video and followed step by step procedures on how to replace my timing chains. It was so very helpful as I had not installed one on overhead cams before. I would highly recommend your video to anyone that attempts to do the chains for themselves. Thank you very much!!!
Though Ive done a few 3.6l chains, I by no means remember every signal mark or step. Mike is absolutely correct about service info not having a signal spot to get all the steps from. its broken down into every piece , guide and sprocket. Having a video that goes through step by step insures not missing a mark on a very labor intensive job! Great work Mike!
I am an ASE master tech w/L1 advanced tech w/over 40 yrs exp so i can tell you listen to this guy the way he explains in this video work easy with or without the engine in the vehicle. Don't be intimidated by this engine. like women It's easy after your first. Great vid young buck, keep it up , your the future
Yeah - I got over 500,000Km from my 3.6 alloytech. They aren't a difficult engine if you are used to euros... Only put the car to the scrappers because of serious cracking.
@@mky9227 Hek yes... If you've taken the housing off - or you are using new years (smrt idea) just pack some grease in the housing first. You can't get neg pressure and the pumps leak like a mofo. The standard grease will be lost in the oil. You'll be changing oil out after a few weeks - so it's not a concern.
Great video! You did an awesome job buddy! Extremely thorough on your descriptions including part names, placements, order/run sequence and especially the step by step in depth direction. Would be very easy for someone with little to no experience to use as a guide as I found out first hand just how easy it would be.id most definitely recommend this video to newbie mechanics and also old timers if they are needing some guidance or know how. Subscribe to this man and help him make more videos for folks like you and I. ( One recommendation I'd like to make to the gentleman responsible for creating the video would be to use a more visible color to mark out the timing marks and set position. I know it's probably very visible in person but for us watching the video the yellow is very hard to recognize. I've found white to work rather good from start to finish.)
Hey Shane, Thanks for the kind words and supporting our channel! We will definitely give white a shot next time and see how it turns out! ~Ryan Wilsing
Let me correct that Philly, Make all GM engine pushrod again. They excell at it. Many other brands do pretty well with DOHC motors. Mike Becker, Senior Insturctor
3 timing chains, 3 timing chain tensioners, 4 cam phasers, 7 PLASTIC timing chain guides, countless tiny oil passages and a new oil pump...what a pile of SH Y T. try fixing all that with the motor in the car and that's a 3000$ job every 100k miles! no wonder GM went bankrupt, and will probably do so again. what your video did was to convince me to never, ever, buy a 3.6 high value equipped vehicle. i'm keeping my old dinosaur tech 3800 buick equipped car because it just keeps going on and on.
That's why I am keeping my Dodge minivan with the 3.8 and avoiding the 3.6 I am guessing that Chrysler and GM engines are a different version of the same engine concept?
Yeah, definitely one of the best to follow. Did my 2008 CTS4 LLT engine using mostly this guide, even had factory manual, but this was THE guide for me. So thank you very much!
I have done several of these engines timing chains. If you use the special tools on all 4 cams at once, You do NOT have to rotate the engine to phase 2 etc at all. Simply install tools and remove all the timing chains at once way easier then doing this turning over the engine part, The special tools are actually cheap. They keep everything locked down and in correct position. The Camaro 3.6 timing chains can be done in the car, while on Acadia/traverse/Srx 3.0/3.6 I simply removed the engine and transmission out the bottom and did it on the ground way easier and less fighting. Using a lift of course.
I agree the rear wheel drive vehicles make this job much less of a task. I will have to look into getting our shop a set of these special tools. Ryan W, Technical Instructor
not using the cam tools . does the flats of the cams line up perfect? mine seem to be off slightly. is this normal or do you think I have a secondary problem I need to find?
@@riseandswinefarm7522 the tools slide onto the oblong part at the back of the cams. you can use the timing marks on the cam gears to verify correct position though. the chains have colored links that link up with the dots on the cam gears.
Hey Josh, 10 hours seems light to me. Labor time for the chains is at about 15 hours. 14.6 to be exact. 2k doesn't seem like a bad price at all. Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
Я из России. У меня свой автосервис. Это видео очень помогло при ремонте Шевроле Камаро 2013 года LFX 3,6 л. Отмечаю высочайший уровень профессионализма и доходчивый рассказ. Огромное спасибо!
Hey Manny, so whenever I do jobs like this I always crank the engine over for at least 20 seconds prior to firing it up. Usually disabling fuel if possible. That way those tensioners get full of oil and the top end gets some oil back through it. Thanks for watching! ~Mike
Hey man I’m working on this engine and I’m having issues with the right bank. Cylinders 1,3, and 5. My boss suspects camshafts have been swapped and is throwing our timing off. How can I figure whether they were swapped or not? We had the head blocks serviced.
Thank you very much for this excellent video. Mike, you are not only a master technician but also a master teacher! Appreciate that very much. Greetings from Bavaria/Germany 👍
Well, if someone brings one of those over, they will not be happy when I say I'm not going to attack that without the engine being pulled. I can't imagine attempting that job in the vehicle.
not worth the parts an labor cost anyway ;) best bets is slam a whole reman engine in or get a different vehicle, unless you're a mechanic and can handle everything yourself! planned obsolescence, Billary Clinton and Obama following the "save the planet green noise".. yes because saving the planet with green junk reduces end pollution slightly whilst producing massive volumes more of waste and energy usage from massive amounts of production, handling and waste. why cannot anyone see the big picture? especially the government sheeple, which need flushed out hard
Doing this for the second time in the vehicle right now. It iss not fun at all. I tried to get a shop to do it this time and no one would even touch it.
@@roscopsoultrain5875 i know how you feel. With my limited knowledge, it took 5 hours just to get the valve covers off and another 5 to get the engine cover off. Good luck!
@Mr.Gotech heyyy I smelt th..I.. I mean caught that!! you ain't slick but I ain't mad at ya, you gotta do what you gotta do 💨 😂 who else caught that 3:42
if I purchase one of these vehicles with this engine, how do you know if everything is good? is there a milage to be concerned about this problem..a particular make and year which is better than other years
I bought the cloyes kit from summit racing but I used this video to install the timing chain kit because there is a whole lot more information than the cloyes instructional video. Your video is more real world scenario in my opinion.
Everyone dose the same thing you get the first chain on then say I like to leave in this stage and keep going or they rotate it but don't show you how one guy rotated the Motor backwards 44:1744:17
Hi Mike. Great video. Thanks. Recently did a 2012 Audi 2.0. I've done old American cars with a single chain before. This was a new experience for me. I wasn't sure how long it took for oil to start to lube the chains, so; I placed the chains in motor oil an let them drip off before installing. I figured that it wouldn't hurt, and maybe helped get oil into the chain links and pins. There was nothing in factory service data about this. All went fine.
If you unplug the crankshaft position sensor and turn it over a few times it will pre lube the engine. With the sensor unplugged there is no spark or fuel sent to the engine.
@@DarrelllCampbelll Are you aware of what “clear flood mode” is by any chance? If you don’t, it is the ability of the ECU to not fire the injectors when cranking the engine if you have WOT, obviously to start a flooded engine. Very handy after an oil change to fill the filter before it fires up. Careful, not all cars have it so try it before you need it. Also good to scare the wife when you are far away from home. 😇
Thanks so much for taking the time to properly explain the process, I was a bit scared thinking about doing the process myself, thanks to your video I feel a bit more confident on how to properly repair the timing chains on my 3.6l Pontiac G8
How do you determine whether to do sprockets and also whether or not to do the oil pump as well? How about replacing the water pump? 135,000 mile 2015 Impala.....
Hey Jim, Due to the difficulty getting to the chain, it is never a bad idea to replace the oil pump and sprockets. The sprockets are not as common to fail as a the chain is, so they don't get replaced as often. If you have a VVT issue that is diagnosed as a sprocket issue is when you would want to replace them. The water pump is not driven off the timing chain so it is not something I would worry about unless it is leaking or failing. ~Ryan
Seems like a great engine on paper and when it works, but a few local shops hate them because of the chain issues. I still have a Chevrolet Uplander with the 3.9 and 240,000 miles, no oil burning and it's been a great engine so far, but it regularly likes to develop small oil leaks like a BMW which is annoying lol
@@GoTechTraining I've read that too and hopefully it's true, but unless it had super low miles with warranty or someone has regular oil change interval proof from the beginning, I don't think I'd ever feel comfortable buying one secondhand.
I have a 2014 LFX with 28,000 miles on it and I have to reseal the front timing cover. I don’t have a check engine light or any related codes but am thinking to change the chains, sprockets, tensioners, guides while I have the front cover off. I’ve noticed alittle bit louder ticking noise at idle which I’m nervous could be the start of a chain issue. What should I do?
Hi Steve, That's a good question, 28,000 miles is pretty premature to replace a timing chain, unless lack of maintenance caused it to stretch. Even then is should not make noise unless a guide or tensioner failed. I would start by inspecting it closely when you have the front cover off and go from there. Since the timing cover removal requires the valve covers to come off, also make sure to inspect the camshafts and lifters. Other things that can cause ticking on this engine are faulty purge solenoids and high pressure fuel pumps. I hope this helps, thanks for reaching out! ~Ryan Wilsing
Is this the same engine as Holden (Australia ) has. ? The AlloyTech LLT engine ? We in australia had issues with the breathers on the rocker covers not being enough for it to breath properly left side of rockers oil wasn’t too bad but that the right side was feral
Hey Danny, I believe this is the same engine. The LY7 and LLT models are both seen in the US as far as I know. I've seen breather issues on these for sure...among the various others. What an engine 😕 ~Mike
Plastic parts and long timing chains don't get it for longevity. Also a lot of parts for a overhead cam which am not a fan of. Hard to beat a pushrod engine for longevity. Overdesigned crap which is hard to fix when engine in car. Why you need to change your oil more often then they say like every 3,000 miles. I also run those engines 1 quart overfull to make sure the timing chains get enough oil. They over baffle these engines to get better gas millage so oil can't splash lube as well as they should by the crank.
Hey Arthur, very true stuff! Amazingly, Ford, who was one of the first pickups with twin turbo small displacement engines, has gone back to a pushrod motor for their super dutys. The new 7.3 and 6.8 gas motors are both cam-in-block and look incredibly reliable. Time will tell, of course. Thanks for watching! ~Mike
alright mike, just wanna say a job well done, it's always stress releasing when seeing someone doing a job both graciously and logically. though i'm more of a motorcycle mechanic, but i still learn a lot from your videos. out of curiosity, maybe it's my ocd kicking in, but is there a reason that loctite was not applied on the secondary sprocket and chain tensioner guide, or even the tensioner mounting bolt? i tend to put loctite on the moving parts mounting bolts, cos i've seen those bolts came off, and it wasn't pretty. cheers, fan from Taiwan Nels
Hey Nels, thanks for watching! So, if the bolts had loctite from the factory, I would have put it on there. But, they did not, so I simply torque them to spec and trust that the service information is correct :) Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
Hey f d, thanks for watching! While it's not 100% necessary to replace them, it is in best practice. The job is a high hour labor job and would hate to do it again if one of those parts fails shortly after. Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
I've tried to count on several different engines....ALWAYS lose my count. You just basically spin for about 10 minutes straight LOL...awesome video sir.
very good tutorial but the chains your using are a poor quality, they are already stratched out to the half way mark.. next time, use scheaffler timing chain kit
Hey Troy, thanks for watching! Good to know. Since doing this video, i've seen that the part number used is hard to get. I've also heard of knock-off kits using the same number but not being Melling parts. I haven't used the Schaeffler kit, but have heard good things about the Cloyes. ~Mike
is there a recommended mileage to change the timing chains on this motor? Ive got a 2015 Impala with this engine it currently has right at 190,000 Miles on it.
Hey Kody, there's not a specific interval. Most people just replace it when it starts to set cam/crank correlation trouble codes. 190k is a solid mileage for the first chain. You must be keeping up on those oil changes! ~Mike
At 6.50 are the flats of the camshafts showing unusual wear? What is the service life of these chain sets in your experience? Any idea of the mileage of the donor engine? I enjoy your quiet competence and through presentation. I am able to transfer these attitudes displayed to dissimilar projects. Thanks for another good video.
Hey Xombi Xombi, thanks for watching! I'm not sure on wear on the flats, but the cams were very dirty. This used engine didn't have the best oil change intervals I don't think. That used motor had about 120K on it with original chains. Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
Hi, Removing the timing cover is the hard part of doing this job while the motor is still in the car. Once the timing cover and the timing chains are off, the oil pump just unbolts from around the crank pulley. If your replacing the pick-up screen, then more work would be involved as you would have to take off the oil pan. Ryan Wilsing
Hi Guys, great video thanks, I've read this elsewhere "Once assembled, the timing chain tensioners need to be fully released to maintain adequate tension. Simply pulling the pins is not enough. All tensioners must be pressed in by hand for the internal mechanism to fully pop out and operate effectively". Should this have to happen? Cheers Gibbo
@@GoTechTraining Hi Mike, Great video. Haynes online shows using a flathead screwdriver to twist the tensioner spring up into the tube and it locks. You can leave it there and hit it with the guide and it will pop out, like with the Primary Chain Tensioner - it doesn't have a hole for a lock pin, but the others do and you can put a paper clip in the hole and pull it when the chain looks correct on the marks. I "retimed" a 2012 Traverse 3.6 with old chains to see if I could get the engine to pass a leak down test and while following your video, I found that the Primary Chain had jumped/stretched a tooth. Things got happy once the chains were in time and the leak test was good. Then, knowing the internals were mostly OK, I purchased a new chain set including Phasers, Oil Pump, Water Pump, Thermostat, etc... and she's very happy. Not bad for a $400 dead Traverse and a lot of labor from a 74 year old enthusiast mechanic. Enjoying the ride now. Thanks!
You gotta give it gm. The 3.6 with the timing chains and the 2.4 with oil consumption, vvt, timing chains?, And water pumps. What an incredible decade for techs.
@@GoTechTraining When I worked heavy line for Ford in the early 90s, the engineers told us that all labor times for warranty repairs were set with technicians in Detroit using hand tools. What a load of crap!
Almost all of the 5.0 engines we would pull apart would have every ring Gap lined up perfect in a row. I used to say that they need to hire a monkey on meth to spend the piston rings before they slide them in the cylinder. Would have been much better. LOL They also horrendous piston slap when cold. They would usually have .009 to .010 piston to cylinder wall clearance from the factory. Instead of making a better product, they just lowered the warranty from 6-year 60,000 mi to 5 year 50,000 MI. They should have just fixed it right on the assembly line.
Hi, can any body clarify if you don't have any chain on the engine and you need to set timing, what piston we use as reference and what will be the cigüeñal position?
nice work mike! you make look easy melling is a good aftermarket i would use those old chains had some wear! remember the quad 4 those chains never had a problem i had left the dealer in 09 so i missed the fun.... im independent now but havent done one yet
Well Done, Thank You. No wasted verbiage, just great explanation of what to do. Now to be able to do this 1/2 blind while the engine is in the car. Glad Melling recognized your talent and provided quality parts for you.
Wait this can be done with the engine still in the car or are you being sarcastic. Just wondering because I have a 09 traverse with 170000 miles not sure but think I have a burnt valve ,ero compression on number 4
@@jacobmorse3280 Yes, it can be done, very tedious job, not easy and not a lot of room. I took my car fully apart, removed the timing, bought the $1,000 in parts to fix it but before starting the install I was cleaning and I put a magnet into my oil pan and came out with a Rod Bearing half. Not good, at this point I knew I needed a full overhaul. I purchased the car broken, the owner told me it needed a timing chain. He was wrong. The crankshaft was damaged. Parts and machine shop work were over $2,000, I found an engine with 34K miles on it and bought and installed it. The timing could have been done but not the full overhaul in the car. At 170K miles if you have not cleaned your valves they probably have carbon build up choking off your intake air flow. I have cleaned 2 engines now both at around 120,000 and the build up was substantial.
NO WONDER WHY 3.6 HAVE TIMING ISUES. IF YOU CAN'T MATCH TIMING MARKS ON SECOND SPIN , THERE'S A PROBLEM WITH THAT ENGINE AND THE BIG REASON WHY STRETCHED CHAINS. (ITS NOT THE OIL LIKE GM SAYS) IT MAKES SENSE. SUV'S WITH THAT ENGINE ARE FROM $1000 TO $3000 2008 TO 2012 ACADIA, TRAVERSE, ENCLAVE. TIMING CHAINS REPLACEMENT (12 HOUR TECHNICIAN JOB) 🤯 YOU DID A GREAT JOB EXPLAINING STEP BY STEP. 👍
FIRST OF ALL ENGINES W/ ( ONE) TIMING CHAIN HAVE RAN TWO - THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND MILE W/out ANY PROBLEMS FOR YEARS UNTIL THEY CAME OUT W/ THESE THREE - FOUR TIMING CHAIN SHIT THEY MAKE TODAY JUST MORE SHIT TO WEAR OUT.
@@garythomas2124Toyota has a 3.5 V6 with the same 4 cam design. They don't have any issues because Toyota uses a better design. GM tried to make the timing chain cheaper because it still outlasts the warranty anyway.
Just wanna say this helped me so much, and I'm a GM dealership technician. Helped out so much more than Service Information did. Followed this and got it right the first time. So with that said, thanks so much for making this video!
Hello, Thanks for the kind words. I agree, Service information is hard to follow. They split it up too much and make it impossible to use without switching screens constantly. Actually part of the reason it was decided to make this video! Glad it helped you and thanks for reaching out Ryan Wilsing
Great video, im sure i will use it again when the time comes. One of those jobs a guy better take his time with. Only thing i will never get is all that crap just to get 4 valves per cylinder, just dont seem worth it
Hi Daniel, I do believe they changed a few things with the engine oiling system to lessen the issue. But not sure if the problem has been solved. Thanks for reaching out! ~Ryan Wilsing
I've done a gazzilion of these of these. G.M. wants you to bring it to Stage 1 then disassemble,that way when you put left side chain on and secondary you only have to rotate crank from 5 o'clock mark to 8 o'clock, a few degrees. That is an interference engine you do not want to rotate crank 360 with cams out of phase
Hey John, thanks for watching! That makes sense. I maybe missed that part in the riduculously hard to interpret procedure. Fortunately, nothing bad seems to occour if you do bring it around over 360°. Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
@@GoTechTraining @GoTech That is good that you did not bend any valves,had lots towed into the shop where the cams came out of phase and bent lots of valves! Would not make a habit of it usually a death sentence for these older vehicles haha. John Hnetkovsky Senior Mastertech CMAT Dralle Chevrolet/Buick
Hey mate, any chance you know the reason why you have to change the chains in two timings? If you locked in the RH with the flat tool and the LH with the diagonal tool why can't you do all 3 chains at once? I know the procedure says 2 timings and if you don't it will cause misfires but I'm curious of the technical reason.
The whole job can be done from stage 2 timing position. Just set stage 2 as shown here, then remove all chains, and replace. the cams and crank won't be moved, so it can't be incorrect.
@@Knackersjewels do you have any instructions...we did ours but ended up with a rattle from RH side when we started car...stripped down again and the chain tensioner is not working properly
Really excellent video help, I do admit that the dot marks and the triangle’s were confusing me as to which ones to use to line up the chain’s, but when when I watched the entire video it became perfectly clear to me. I have always been mechanically inclined when it came to taking things apart and then putting them back together, but I haven’t changed a set of chains and an oil pump in many many many years .The oil pump was the easy part I must say. I should mention I did this with the engine in the car not out, a 2010 Camaro, with out the help of this video I wouldn’t have been able to do it. Thank you for that. I turned 65 this year and I have very limited funds ,so I end up doing almost all of my own repairs. Can’t afford the labour rates at most garage’s. Last time I had the crank replaced because of bad rod Bering it cost over $5000.00 at a GM dealer and it was never did run right after they were done, they wouldn’t give me an exact price for the work, had I known how much it was going to cost I would have picked up a new motor. Can’t trust most Garage’s. And by the way, it was just out of factory warranty by 500 Kilometres. Yes i am Canadian.
So you figured out the triangles where the marks also? Lol I had the same issues when I did it ….by the way I did my 3.6 vvt with the engine still in car 💪
Hey Cadir, thanks for watching! It's funny, I actually don't have much patience. Glad the video makes it seem that way though :) Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
Thank you once more Mike. So this is a non-interference engine? Apparently you turned the crank more than one revolution to put it into stage one position with the right side secondary chain off,
Hey Juergen, that's a good point. I didn't even think about that. Hmmm...I have heard of these engines bending valves though. Insteresting. Mike Becker, Senior Insturctor
This is a interference engine and has very small valve stems, they will bend with minimal force. This is why the phasers only have 12° of ± variance. the later years only have one set point. There is a set tool "key" guide for the back of the camshafts. This is a A level tech job.
There is reliefs on the pistons as long as you don't let a camshaft snap hard while rotating camshafts manually with 20mm wrench on hex feature and 16mm socket on camshaft bolt; clockwise, you will want to begin rotating camshaft by its bolt 50% into spring load and then grab low on the hex feature with wrench to transfer tension load from socket to wrench against springs and not let it snap forward. Slowly rotating it clockwise with the 20mm wrench; gently landing it, while having enough room to grab it low enough on hex so you have full rotation without smashing hands after rotating so the flats are facing upward.
Hey Josh, Good question! No this design is unique to engines deigned to use that type of tool to check cam timing. Some Cams have different markings, some have none at all. Thanks for reaching out! ~Ryan
I just got a Camaro from a friend of mine that tried this job and he took the bank one chain off before making sure it is in time, if I make sure the cam phasers are where they need to be will it put the car back into the correct time?
Hello Elijah, Yes, you will have to set the crankshaft back to the correct stage timing for bank 1 and then both cam phasers for that bank before re-installing the chain. ~Ryan
Why even bother with this garbage heap of an engine? They and the cars they came in should have been shipped straight from the factory to the scrap yard
Hey Trent, I don't disagree that these aren't the best engines made...but the customers who own these cars need to keep them on the road...as long as there are people needing them fixed, we will continue to fix them. ~Mike
Who is in Indiana that can help me do this job to my 2015 Colorado? Or how much would someone charge to this job? I know it varies but just to get an idea. I'm not sure yet if my engine needs it but I just bought and it has 200k miles .. Help haha 🙊
Hello Diego, The 3.0L also has had some timing chain issues. But a great deal of the timing chain issues can be blamed on lack of proper maintenance. So if you have been changing your oil regularly there's a good chance you may not have any issues. Ryan W, Technical Instructor
@@GoTechTraining gotcha. Yea I heard they they occur due to lack of maintenance. Whoever had the car before me probably took very good care of it or had the chain replaced. I do the oil changes on time with full synthetic.
Hello I'm doing 2010 Camaro V6 timing chains and oil pump and saw melling video where they did the whole job in stage one timing with the cam special tools locked in , I assume if they can come off that way they can go on that way , just was wondering your thoughts please!
Hey Jacob, I have never tried complete the job this way, I assume if the links line up then it should work just fine. The procedure we followed is the GM procedure, setting it back to stage two timing. Good luck on your timing chain job! Thanks for reaching out ~Ryan Wilsing
@@GoTechTraining Thank you for responding even though this is an older video. I have scoured the internet for information on the 3.0 vvt engines but there is very limited information on it, and almost nothing about the timing chains. I have recently bought a used 2011 GMC Terrain with the 3.0 that needs a timing chain installed…it does run and drive. No shops around me other than one will even touch it. They all say if it had the 3.6 vvt then they wouldn’t have a problem with it. I just don’t understand. Guess that leaves me lol😢. So again, Thank You!
Hey Richard, the colored links are only for the initial chain install. The motor would have to be spun over a ton to get it to line back up. Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
Just curious, I know you say the cam holding tool is not needed. Are the flats of the camshafts on bank 2 facing up when the crankshaft sprocket is setup for stage 1 timing?
Hey Chris, Correct, if cam tools are available, they can be used to double check cam timing in stage1 and stage 2, right bank 1 cam flats will be up in stage 2 and left bank 2 cam flats will be up in stage 1 ~Ryan Wilsing
Glad you mentioned to Replace oil Pump as most people I've done that job for don't think it is necessary then I have a argument over it I wouldn't do the job if it wasn't Replaced, oh yea and Replace Water Pump..
Hey Paul, thanks for watching! Sure, the waterpump could/should be replaced right away too. Why not, you're already there :) Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
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Good overall video on doing the timing chains on these GM 3.6 l
One critical piece of information though before you even start the job.
If you're attempting to do this with the motor still in which I have done many many many times for front wheel drive vehicles such as the Arcadia traverse terrain and Buick and even some old Saturns that use this motor
The hardest part of the entire job can be just getting the effing crank pulley off. A lot of people grind down modify a three jaw puller
From places such as harbor freight but there's not a whole lot of clearance between the frame rail where the crank pulley sits
Get yourself the OEM GM or good eBay knock off crank pulley remover tool for this motor. It's not a three jaw puller it's a one piece design that slips perfectly over the crank pulley on these gm3.6 motors giving you the clearance you need Or you'll never even be able to start to get your timing chains off because you won't be able to pull the timing chain cover or anything else you will quit before you even start just trying to get the damn crank pulley off if you don't have the proper tool.
Other side notes go with the cloyes timing chain kit spend the 400 bucks for the love of God there are lots of $200 Chinese timing chain kits for sale on eBay and Amazon everyone ive helped do one of these 3.6 motors with the Chinese kits the timing chain tensioners and other components always fail within a year
You are not saving a couple bucks by going with cheap parts. You'll be doing the job again prematurely.
Other notes would include this is an interference engine. If your cam phasers go bad if you're lucky the motor will just click
But if this does jump out of time you will bend valves and if that happens of course you replacing valves by removing the heads
You're also looking at replacing the cam phasers that's another part do not go aftermarket on there's lots of Chinese knockoffs on Amazon and eBay they only cost about $20 more a piece for the OEM GM cam phasers did make the note in this video which I've seen people miss
Both left and right bank exhaust cam phasers are the same same GM part number
But I've worked on 3.6l that are still throwing codes because people don't realize when changing the intake phasers there are separate part numbers there is a left and a right intake when lining up your timing chain marks
Up top on the phasers when your cams are flat as he explains in the video you have a little circle and a triangle on the phasers
One way to tell if you have it right is you should have 12 links between the exhaust and intake phaser on each Bank
You can think you have it right assemble the whole vehicle it will start and it will run but after it warms up in the O2 sensors kick on and starts talking to the computer and running efficiently it'll start throwing codes
Because your cam phasers or not installed correctly as in you ordered a cheap eBay intake phasers I sent you two of the same model number I've seen this happen many times not realizing there's a left bank right Bank intake phaser and the vehicle will run but not right and throw codes.
It's not an overly complex hard job to do
Just make sure you have every correct part and it's a quality part before you attempt this job.
And one last very very very very important part for the do-it-yourselfer attempting this with oil pump replacement do not immediately when completing this job fire your vehicle up these GM 3.6 l they need a minute or two of cranking to prime correctly when you're completely done with the job leave the spark plugs out and make sure on the under the hood fuse panel you pull the fuel pump fuse verified I don't even hook the fuel line up to the fuel rail so when the keys in the on position nothing is being pumped from the tank up to the motor then crank the vehicle over when the mentioned above is verified I start with 5 seconds of cranking and let the vehicle sit for about half a minute
Then I'll continue cranking for 10 seconds let it sit for another half a minute all the way till I crank it till about 15 to 20 seconds just to make damn sure the new pump is primed and has sent oil all the way from the bottom of the pan up through the heads lubing up the phasers in the Cam's good in the hydraulic timing chain tensioners before finally dropping the spark plugs back in popping back in the fuel pump fuse and finally allowing the vehicle to start then you won't have any clicking or knocking noise because the vehicle's been oil primed well.
I mention this comment because one of the first traverses I worked on with the stretch timing chain issue and the oil pump changed and everything was done correctly but not properly primed newly installed oil pump
And the vehicle ran dry for the first couple seconds which was enough to actually score the crank bearings on this gm 3.6 engine
As with all engines especially this one some are more tolerant than others quality oil and oil pressure are everything to this engine
I firmly believe half the timing chain stretch issues are related to this motor because people do not do enough oil changes gunking this GM 3.6 l motor up. And piss poor GM engineering on the right Bank crankcase ventilation system on this engine.
This can be a
Very good quality engine as long as you keep them clean a $50 full synthetic oil change every 6 months or 5,000 miles this engine easily make it to 200k Plus trying to skip oil changes driving 10 to 20K miles between oil changes and I've seen these motors grenade before they reach the 100K mark.
And the very very last note
People don't realize GM had a problem with this vehicle when it's throwing codes
Saying the timings off and a vehicle is not making any clicking or rattling noises ie everything is nice and tight the way it should be the earlier year GM 3.6 l I believe it was the 2007 models the pulse ring which is a gear that is pressed onto the back of the crankshaft again was only pressed on from the factory and not welded and what happens is after a period of time certain 3.6 l motors because they were not welded onto the crank but only press fit pulse ring tone gear different people call them different things is what your crankshaft position sensor on the back of the motor reads to send a signal to the computer to make sure everything's timed and firing right if you are unfortunate enough to have one of these tone rings that slips in the crankshaft no amount of timing chains and switching sensors will fix it the only thing that does it is changing the crankshaft out which the labor involved it's normally cheaper just to get a new motor. Not a common problem but one that has been documented with this 3.6 l motor. And is one of the causes of the dreaded check engine light timing is not with in tolerance code.
@Aaron Wildman, are you referring part# 25264 for the pulley/HB tool? Thanks in advance
I purchased a 2011 Chevrolet Traverse new. I changed oil at 75% to 90% of the oil indicator. I used oil specified by GM. API rating, oil weight and Dexos rated. Mostly Mobile 1. I used GM oil the first couple of years, as Dexos rated oil was difficult to find. I gave my Traverse to my sister in 2022 with 180,000 miles. My sister is still driving it. Has about 200,000 miles. Original timing chains. I was careful about oil changes and followed GM’s specifications. I made sure crankcase breathing system was operating correctly and oil level was maintained. It did not consume oil. Worked out for me. YMMV.
Very good info thanks, I'm just preparing to do a 3.2L that has 3 out of 4 timing position sensors throwing codes. I'm beginning to wonder if someone already screwed it up
My name is James. I have a 2009 Cadillac CTS with a 3.6. I watched your video and followed step by step procedures on how to replace my timing chains. It was so very helpful as I had not installed one on overhead cams before. I would highly recommend your video to anyone that attempts to do the chains for themselves. Thank you very much!!!
Though Ive done a few 3.6l chains, I by no means remember every signal mark or step. Mike is absolutely correct about service info not having a signal spot to get all the steps from. its broken down into every piece , guide and sprocket. Having a video that goes through step by step insures not missing a mark on a very labor intensive job! Great work Mike!
I am an ASE master tech w/L1 advanced tech w/over 40 yrs exp so i can tell you listen to this guy the way he explains in this video work easy with or without the engine in the vehicle. Don't be intimidated by this engine. like women It's easy after your first. Great vid young buck, keep it up , your the future
It can be done in the car I I did it changed timing chain in the car
Yeah - I got over 500,000Km from my 3.6 alloytech. They aren't a difficult engine if you are used to euros... Only put the car to the scrappers because of serious cracking.
Do you prime the oil pump before installation???
@@mky9227 Hek yes... If you've taken the housing off - or you are using new years (smrt idea) just pack some grease in the housing first. You can't get neg pressure and the pumps leak like a mofo.
The standard grease will be lost in the oil. You'll be changing oil out after a few weeks - so it's not a concern.
@mky9227 anytime u still pump prime with oil to get air out
Great video! You did an awesome job buddy! Extremely thorough on your descriptions including part names, placements, order/run sequence and especially the step by step in depth direction. Would be very easy for someone with little to no experience to use as a guide as I found out first hand just how easy it would be.id most definitely recommend this video to newbie mechanics and also old timers if they are needing some guidance or know how. Subscribe to this man and help him make more videos for folks like you and I. ( One recommendation I'd like to make to the gentleman responsible for creating the video would be to use a more visible color to mark out the timing marks and set position. I know it's probably very visible in person but for us watching the video the yellow is very hard to recognize. I've found white to work rather good from start to finish.)
Hey Shane,
Thanks for the kind words and supporting our channel!
We will definitely give white a shot next time and see how it turns out!
~Ryan Wilsing
How do you know if you need cam phasers you can spend over 1100.00 dollars on just these parts alone
Hands down, The best automotive repair tutorial and content ever
Thanks man!
~Mike
Thanks so much for taking the time to put this together. This has to be one of the best how to videos I've seen.
Thanks for watching!
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
Totally agree with you CHEERS
Make all engines pushrod again😉
Let me correct that Philly, Make all GM engine pushrod again. They excell at it. Many other brands do pretty well with DOHC motors.
Mike Becker, Senior Insturctor
@@GoTechTraining agreed😉
Really!!! 🙂
@@pmscalisi yes sir😏
3 timing chains, 3 timing chain tensioners, 4 cam phasers, 7 PLASTIC timing chain guides, countless tiny oil passages and a new oil pump...what a pile of SH Y T. try fixing all that with the motor in the car and that's a 3000$ job every 100k miles!
no wonder GM went bankrupt, and will probably do so again. what your video did was to convince me to never, ever, buy a 3.6 high value equipped vehicle.
i'm keeping my old dinosaur tech 3800 buick equipped car because it just keeps going on and on.
Amazing job, appreciate how thorough and professional you are.
Just wondering why did he not have to turn crank 360 deg. to get into Phase 2 timing?
Did you have to prime the oil pump?
I appreciate all the work you put into these videos.
Thanks
Thanks so much Kevin!
~Mike
To think that GM canceled the 3800 for that abomination.
Ohhhh Wayne, I miss the 3.8L. I owned many of them!
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
That's why I am keeping my Dodge minivan with the 3.8 and avoiding the 3.6 I am guessing that Chrysler and GM engines are a different version of the same engine concept?
The first series 3800s were an abomination, as a master auto tech 46 years experience, Gm has made garbage than any 5 car companies combined
This guy is nuts I would never put an oil pump on an engine without priming it with Vaseline
I have been looking for a detailed video for how to do this for literally years, thank you for making it.
And thank you for watching and commenting :)
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
Agreed
just done my 4th timing chain on one of these 3.6s, always come back to this video, very well constructed and understandable
IF I WERE TO BE DOING A 2018 CADILLAC CT6 WITH THE 3.6L WOULD ALL OF THIS STILL APPLY TO REMOVE AND INSTALL THE CHAINS?
Hello Ramiro,
From what I see in service information, the 2018 CS6 has a different chain set up. So this video would not apply.
~Ryan
Yeah, definitely one of the best to follow. Did my 2008 CTS4 LLT engine using mostly this guide, even had factory manual, but this was THE guide for me. So thank you very much!
I have done several of these engines timing chains. If you use the special tools on all 4 cams at once, You do NOT have to rotate the engine to phase 2 etc at all. Simply install tools and remove all the timing chains at once way easier then doing this turning over the engine part, The special tools are actually cheap. They keep everything locked down and in correct position. The Camaro 3.6 timing chains can be done in the car, while on Acadia/traverse/Srx 3.0/3.6 I simply removed the engine and transmission out the bottom and did it on the ground way easier and less fighting. Using a lift of course.
I agree the rear wheel drive vehicles make this job much less of a task.
I will have to look into getting our shop a set of these special tools.
Ryan W, Technical Instructor
not using the cam tools . does the flats of the cams line up perfect? mine seem to be off slightly. is this normal or do you think I have a secondary problem I need to find?
@@riseandswinefarm7522 the tools slide onto the oblong part at the back of the cams. you can use the timing marks on the cam gears to verify correct position though. the chains have colored links that link up with the dots on the cam gears.
2
Even with the tools you have to put engine in stage 2 timing the kit comes with 3 tools for exactly that
how long is this job from start to finish? local mechanic quoted me at 10 hours and almost $2k
Hey Josh, 10 hours seems light to me. Labor time for the chains is at about 15 hours. 14.6 to be exact. 2k doesn't seem like a bad price at all.
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
Я из России. У меня свой автосервис. Это видео очень помогло при ремонте Шевроле Камаро 2013 года LFX 3,6 л. Отмечаю высочайший уровень профессионализма и доходчивый рассказ. Огромное спасибо!
Это потрясающе! Спасибо за просмотр! :) Google Translate-
~Mike
Man looks like you did a good job, but no oil pressure on the tensioners and that left tensioner jumping while you turned the engine 😬
Hey Manny, so whenever I do jobs like this I always crank the engine over for at least 20 seconds prior to firing it up. Usually disabling fuel if possible. That way those tensioners get full of oil and the top end gets some oil back through it. Thanks for watching!
~Mike
@@GoTechTraining 👍
Hey man I’m working on this engine and I’m having issues with the right bank. Cylinders 1,3, and 5. My boss suspects camshafts have been swapped and is throwing our timing off. How can I figure whether they were swapped or not? We had the head blocks serviced.
Thank you very much for this excellent video. Mike, you are not only a master technician but also a master teacher! Appreciate that very much.
Greetings from Bavaria/Germany 👍
Hard to bleave General motors make such a junk engine. These CTS with v-6 are DIRT cheap.
Well, if someone brings one of those over, they will not be happy when I say I'm not going to attack that without the engine being pulled.
I can't imagine attempting that job in the vehicle.
Hey Emmett, thanks for watching! I couldn't imagine doing that job in the car. There's such little clearance.
Mike Becker, Senior Insturctor
not worth the parts an labor cost anyway ;)
best bets is slam a whole reman engine in or get a different vehicle, unless you're a mechanic and can handle everything yourself!
planned obsolescence, Billary Clinton and Obama following the "save the planet green noise".. yes because saving the planet with green junk reduces end pollution slightly whilst producing massive volumes more of waste and energy usage from massive amounts of production, handling and waste.
why cannot anyone see the big picture? especially the government sheeple, which need flushed out hard
Doing this for the second time in the vehicle right now. It iss not fun at all. I tried to get a shop to do it this time and no one would even touch it.
@@roscopsoultrain5875 i know how you feel. With my limited knowledge, it took 5 hours just to get the valve covers off and another 5 to get the engine cover off. Good luck!
@Mr.Gotech heyyy I smelt th..I.. I mean caught that!! you ain't slick but I ain't mad at ya, you gotta do what you gotta do 💨 😂 who else caught that
3:42
💯😂😂😂 the pause from talking makes it epic its like he can't chew bubble gum and walk
It totally sounds like it...but it was my shoe, promise! ;)
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
Mike, A+ Presentation. Your are clearly an expert who worked hard to know what you know! 👍
Aww thanks Mark! Appreciate it :)
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
if I purchase one of these vehicles with this engine, how do you know if everything is good? is there a milage to be concerned about this problem..a particular make and year which is better than other years
I bought the cloyes kit from summit racing but I used this video to install the timing chain kit because there is a whole lot more information than the cloyes instructional video. Your video is more real world scenario in my opinion.
I feel the same way
Everyone dose the same thing you get the first chain on then say I like to leave in this stage and keep going or they rotate it but don't show you how one guy rotated the Motor backwards 44:17 44:17
Hi Mike. Great video. Thanks. Recently did a 2012 Audi 2.0. I've done old American cars with a single chain before. This was a new experience for me. I wasn't sure how long it took for oil to start to lube the chains, so; I placed the chains in motor oil an let them drip off before installing. I figured that it wouldn't hurt, and maybe helped get oil into the chain links and pins. There was nothing in factory service data about this. All went fine.
If you unplug the crankshaft position sensor and turn it over a few times it will pre lube the engine. With the sensor unplugged there is no spark or fuel sent to the engine.
@@DarrelllCampbelll Great. Thanks.
@@DarrelllCampbelll
Are you aware of what “clear flood mode” is by any chance?
If you don’t, it is the ability of the ECU to not fire the injectors when cranking the engine if you have WOT, obviously to start a flooded engine. Very handy after an oil change to fill the filter before it fires up.
Careful, not all cars have it so try it before you need it. Also good to scare the wife when you are far away from home. 😇
Great amazing job totally understand thank you 🙏 2024
This is an extremely well done and informative video on performing the replacement of the timing components on the GM 3.6 engine. Thank you!
Thanks so much Timothy!
~Mike
Thanks so much for taking the time to properly explain the process, I was a bit scared thinking about doing the process myself, thanks to your video I feel a bit more confident on how to properly repair the timing chains on my 3.6l Pontiac G8
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching
Ryan W, Technical Instructor
How do you determine whether to do sprockets and also whether or not to do the oil pump as well?
How about replacing the water pump? 135,000 mile 2015 Impala.....
Hey Jim,
Due to the difficulty getting to the chain, it is never a bad idea to replace the oil pump and sprockets. The sprockets are not as common to fail as a the chain is, so they don't get replaced as often. If you have a VVT issue that is diagnosed as a sprocket issue is when you would want to replace them. The water pump is not driven off the timing chain so it is not something I would worry about unless it is leaking or failing.
~Ryan
Seems like a great engine on paper and when it works, but a few local shops hate them because of the chain issues. I still have a Chevrolet Uplander with the 3.9 and 240,000 miles, no oil burning and it's been a great engine so far, but it regularly likes to develop small oil leaks like a BMW which is annoying lol
Hey Jeremy, I don't think the 3.6L would be so bad if people would have just changed oil on them!
Mike Becker, Senior Insturctor
@@GoTechTraining I've read that too and hopefully it's true, but unless it had super low miles with warranty or someone has regular oil change interval proof from the beginning, I don't think I'd ever feel comfortable buying one secondhand.
Yeh, I feel you on that one. I was not "impressed" when I opened up this used one. She wasn't pretty inside.
Mike Becker, Senior Insturctor
3.9 will out last a 3.6 even with staying up with maintenance
I have a 2014 LFX with 28,000 miles on it and I have to reseal the front timing cover. I don’t have a check engine light or any related codes but am thinking to change the chains, sprockets, tensioners, guides while I have the front cover off. I’ve noticed alittle bit louder ticking noise at idle which I’m nervous could be the start of a chain issue. What should I do?
Hi Steve,
That's a good question, 28,000 miles is pretty premature to replace a timing chain, unless lack of maintenance caused it to stretch. Even then is should not make noise unless a guide or tensioner failed. I would start by inspecting it closely when you have the front cover off and go from there. Since the timing cover removal requires the valve covers to come off, also make sure to inspect the camshafts and lifters. Other things that can cause ticking on this engine are faulty purge solenoids and high pressure fuel pumps.
I hope this helps, thanks for reaching out!
~Ryan Wilsing
Awesome video with lots if information. Will this apply to a 2010 camaro LT?
Hey Luis, thanks for watching! Yeh, I believe the 3.6L in the Camaro has the same set up.
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
Is this the same engine as Holden (Australia ) has. ? The AlloyTech LLT engine ? We in australia had issues with the breathers on the rocker covers not being enough for it to breath properly left side of rockers oil wasn’t too bad but that the right side was feral
Hey Danny, I believe this is the same engine. The LY7 and LLT models are both seen in the US as far as I know. I've seen breather issues on these for sure...among the various others. What an engine 😕
~Mike
Great video, really appreciate the details. Quick question what type of markers did you use to mark the timing.
Looks like paint markers
Plastic parts and long timing chains don't get it for longevity. Also a lot of parts for a overhead cam which am not a fan of. Hard to beat a pushrod engine for longevity. Overdesigned crap which is hard to fix when engine in car. Why you need to change your oil more often then they say like every 3,000 miles. I also run those engines 1 quart overfull to make sure the timing chains get enough oil. They over baffle these engines to get better gas millage so oil can't splash lube as well as they should by the crank.
Hey Arthur, very true stuff! Amazingly, Ford, who was one of the first pickups with twin turbo small displacement engines, has gone back to a pushrod motor for their super dutys. The new 7.3 and 6.8 gas motors are both cam-in-block and look incredibly reliable. Time will tell, of course. Thanks for watching!
~Mike
alright mike, just wanna say a job well done, it's always stress releasing when seeing someone doing a job both graciously and logically. though i'm more of a motorcycle mechanic, but i still learn a lot from your videos.
out of curiosity, maybe it's my ocd kicking in, but is there a reason that loctite was not applied on the secondary sprocket and chain tensioner guide, or even the tensioner mounting bolt? i tend to put loctite on the moving parts mounting bolts, cos i've seen those bolts came off, and it wasn't pretty.
cheers, fan from Taiwan
Nels
Hey Nels, thanks for watching! So, if the bolts had loctite from the factory, I would have put it on there. But, they did not, so I simply torque them to spec and trust that the service information is correct :)
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
GM builds the worst vehicles on planet earth
Is there a o-ring that goes between the oil pump & the block ? I noticed a recessed area on the oil pump where it looks like an o-ring should go.
Hey Dwayne, no there is no o-ring between there. I was a little shocked by that when I put it in!
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
Further to my last. Meant to say vvt solenoids/sprockets. Does vvt solenoid and sprocket need to be replaced when replacing chains.
Hey f d, thanks for watching! While it's not 100% necessary to replace them, it is in best practice. The job is a high hour labor job and would hate to do it again if one of those parts fails shortly after.
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
It is the only video that explains steps 1 and 2.patiently. I understood the procedures of timing very easily. Thanks so much!
I've tried to count on several different engines....ALWAYS lose my count. You just basically spin for about 10 minutes straight LOL...awesome video sir.
Hahaha around and around the 3.6L goes, where it stops, nobody knows!
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
very good tutorial
but the chains your using are a poor quality, they are already stratched out to the half way mark..
next time, use scheaffler timing chain kit
Hey Troy, thanks for watching! Good to know. Since doing this video, i've seen that the part number used is hard to get. I've also heard of knock-off kits using the same number but not being Melling parts. I haven't used the Schaeffler kit, but have heard good things about the Cloyes.
~Mike
Excellent video as always Mike. Thanks for making a detailed video for this job. It's really how confusing it is in SI that gets um 😉
How long does it take to change a timer
is there a recommended mileage to change the timing chains on this motor? Ive got a 2015 Impala with this engine it currently has right at 190,000 Miles on it.
Hey Kody, there's not a specific interval. Most people just replace it when it starts to set cam/crank correlation trouble codes. 190k is a solid mileage for the first chain. You must be keeping up on those oil changes!
~Mike
At 6.50 are the flats of the camshafts showing unusual wear? What is the service life of these chain sets in your experience? Any idea of the mileage of the donor engine? I enjoy your quiet competence and through presentation. I am able to transfer these attitudes displayed to dissimilar projects.
Thanks for another good video.
Hey Xombi Xombi, thanks for watching! I'm not sure on wear on the flats, but the cams were very dirty. This used engine didn't have the best oil change intervals I don't think. That used motor had about 120K on it with original chains.
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
wife wants a 2022-2023 acadia. 3.6 LGX Are the newer ones any different as in better/improved?
Hey Jimmy, they fixed this issue in the mid twenty-teens.
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
Very pro how to video. Everything explained crystal clear step by step. Always appreciate guys like you putting out such useful content.
Hi Anthony,
Thanks for checking out the video! Glad you enjoyed it!
~Ryan Wilsing
@@GoTechTrainingis there any kind of snake oil that will make this last a little longer
You mention changing the Oil Pump since the engine is open.. BUT but but, if the engine is still in the car, HOW?
Hi,
Removing the timing cover is the hard part of doing this job while the motor is still in the car. Once the timing cover and the timing chains are off, the oil pump just unbolts from around the crank pulley. If your replacing the pick-up screen, then more work would be involved as you would have to take off the oil pan.
Ryan Wilsing
Great video and demonstration Mike! Do I have to replace chains if I rebuild one head because a bent valve?
@Lecrima Nevelke Thanks
Awesome jo b, thanks for sharing
Hi Guys, great video thanks, I've read this elsewhere "Once assembled, the timing chain tensioners need to be fully released to maintain adequate tension. Simply pulling the pins is not enough. All tensioners must be pressed in by hand for the internal mechanism to fully pop out and operate effectively". Should this have to happen?
Cheers
Gibbo
Hey Gibbo, thanks for watching! Interesting, I haven't heard that. There's nothing in the procedure about it.
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
@@GoTechTraining Hi Mike, Great video. Haynes online shows using a flathead screwdriver to twist the tensioner spring up into the tube and it locks. You can leave it there and hit it with the guide and it will pop out, like with the Primary Chain Tensioner - it doesn't have a hole for a lock pin, but the others do and you can put a paper clip in the hole and pull it when the chain looks correct on the marks. I "retimed" a 2012 Traverse 3.6 with old chains to see if I could get the engine to pass a leak down test and while following your video, I found that the Primary Chain had jumped/stretched a tooth. Things got happy once the chains were in time and the leak test was good. Then, knowing the internals were mostly OK, I purchased a new chain set including Phasers, Oil Pump, Water Pump, Thermostat, etc... and she's very happy. Not bad for a $400 dead Traverse and a lot of labor from a 74 year old enthusiast mechanic. Enjoying the ride now. Thanks!
I'll stick to my Gen 1-3 SBC and Series 2/3 Buick. Easier to repair.
Hello,
The old Buick 3.8 was a pretty nice engine to repair! It had quite a few issues, but the engine itself was pretty solid!
~Ryan Wilsing
You gotta give it gm. The 3.6 with the timing chains and the 2.4 with oil consumption, vvt, timing chains?, And water pumps. What an incredible decade for techs.
What a time to be alive Bobby! I bet warranty repair time on these engines is HORRIBLE though.
Mike Becker, Senior Insturctor
The water pump thing is been going on since the 70’s. Some people never learn….☺️
As a tech, the 3.6L is an absolute nightmare every time. No one likes doing them here.
@@GoTechTraining When I worked heavy line for Ford in the early 90s, the engineers told us that all labor times for warranty repairs were set with technicians in Detroit using hand tools. What a load of crap!
Almost all of the 5.0 engines we would pull apart would have every ring Gap lined up perfect in a row.
I used to say that they need to hire a monkey on meth to spend the piston rings before they slide them in the cylinder. Would have been much better.
LOL
They also horrendous piston slap when cold. They would usually have .009 to .010 piston to cylinder wall clearance from the factory.
Instead of making a better product, they just lowered the warranty from 6-year 60,000 mi to 5 year 50,000 MI. They should have just fixed it right on the assembly line.
Hi, can any body clarify if you don't have any chain on the engine and you need to set timing, what piston we use as reference and what will be the cigüeñal position?
Just set the timing marks as shown , the crankshaft spins twice for every cam revolution so it can’t be off
nice work mike! you make look easy melling is a good aftermarket i would use those old chains had some wear! remember the quad 4 those chains never had a problem i had left the dealer in 09 so i missed the fun.... im independent now but havent done one yet
Hey Scuba, thanks for watching! Yeh, the Melling stuff seems good. Not a bad job overall if you end up with one.
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
i assembled Tomahawk cruise missiles for 20 years .. way simpler than this ..
The risk on this 3.6L timing job is much lower though! Thanks for watching!
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
Well done. Very accurate and intuitive video. If a person has the time and the tools. There should be no reason to
mess this up.
Thanks a ton Axle Johnson!
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
hello to everyone from Ukraine. which chain manufacturer is better to buy for this engine for replacement?
Hello Evgen, Jasper is a big one here that people buy from. We also have some smaller rebuilders that do a good job.
~Mike
Well Done, Thank You. No wasted verbiage, just great explanation of what to do. Now to be able to do this 1/2 blind while the engine is in the car. Glad Melling recognized your talent and provided quality parts for you.
Thanks for watching Mr McD!
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
Wait this can be done with the engine still in the car or are you being sarcastic. Just wondering because I have a 09 traverse with 170000 miles not sure but think I have a burnt valve ,ero compression on number 4
Can be done in the car 100%
@@jacobmorse3280 Yes, it can be done, very tedious job, not easy and not a lot of room. I took my car fully apart, removed the timing, bought the $1,000 in parts to fix it but before starting the install I was cleaning and I put a magnet into my oil pan and came out with a Rod Bearing half. Not good, at this point I knew I needed a full overhaul. I purchased the car broken, the owner told me it needed a timing chain. He was wrong. The crankshaft was damaged. Parts and machine shop work were over $2,000, I found an engine with 34K miles on it and bought and installed it. The timing could have been done but not the full overhaul in the car. At 170K miles if you have not cleaned your valves they probably have carbon build up choking off your intake air flow. I have cleaned 2 engines now both at around 120,000 and the build up was substantial.
@@mrmcd5728how should I go about cleaning my valves?
NO WONDER WHY 3.6 HAVE TIMING ISUES.
IF YOU CAN'T MATCH TIMING MARKS ON SECOND SPIN ,
THERE'S A PROBLEM WITH THAT ENGINE AND THE BIG REASON WHY STRETCHED CHAINS. (ITS NOT THE OIL LIKE GM SAYS)
IT MAKES SENSE.
SUV'S WITH THAT ENGINE ARE FROM $1000 TO $3000
2008 TO 2012
ACADIA, TRAVERSE, ENCLAVE. TIMING CHAINS REPLACEMENT (12 HOUR TECHNICIAN JOB)
🤯
YOU DID A GREAT JOB EXPLAINING STEP BY STEP. 👍
FIRST OF ALL ENGINES W/ ( ONE) TIMING CHAIN HAVE RAN TWO - THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND MILE W/out ANY PROBLEMS FOR YEARS UNTIL THEY CAME OUT W/ THESE THREE - FOUR TIMING CHAIN SHIT THEY MAKE TODAY JUST MORE SHIT TO WEAR OUT.
@@garythomas2124Toyota has a 3.5 V6 with the same 4 cam design. They don't have any issues because Toyota uses a better design. GM tried to make the timing chain cheaper because it still outlasts the warranty anyway.
Will this method work for 2010 Cadillac SRX 3.0L?
Hello,
Yes, the procedure should be pretty much identical.
Thanks for reaching out!
~Ryan Wilsing
Just wanna say this helped me so much, and I'm a GM dealership technician. Helped out so much more than Service Information did. Followed this and got it right the first time. So with that said, thanks so much for making this video!
Hello,
Thanks for the kind words.
I agree, Service information is hard to follow. They split it up too much and make it impossible to use without switching screens constantly. Actually part of the reason it was decided to make this video!
Glad it helped you and thanks for reaching out
Ryan Wilsing
And you are a crooked union criminal that just towels the job.
What was the mileage on this motor
Great video, im sure i will use it again when the time comes. One of those jobs a guy better take his time with. Only thing i will never get is all that crap just to get 4 valves per cylinder, just dont seem worth it
great detailed information as always. thanks Mike.
Thanks for watching RP 502!
Mike Becker, Senior Insturctor
in case you were wondering 1 484 392 rotations to line the marks up to the gears
I will most likely never do this job but watched it all anyways.
Well thank you very much! I appreaciate that Javelin3o4!
Mike Becker, Senior Insturctor
Awesome video!! I'm scrapping my malibu after watching this🙃
@@aleshacantrell2134 I said that too and now my car is halfway apart
Did GM ever fixed this problem. Cause I know these engines are junk
Hi Daniel,
I do believe they changed a few things with the engine oiling system to lessen the issue. But not sure if the problem has been solved.
Thanks for reaching out!
~Ryan Wilsing
I've done a gazzilion of these of these. G.M. wants you to bring it to Stage 1 then disassemble,that way when you put left side chain on and secondary you only have to rotate crank from 5 o'clock mark to 8 o'clock, a few degrees. That is an interference engine you do not want to rotate crank 360 with cams out of phase
Hey John, thanks for watching! That makes sense. I maybe missed that part in the riduculously hard to interpret procedure. Fortunately, nothing bad seems to occour if you do bring it around over 360°.
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
@@GoTechTraining @GoTech That is good that you did not bend any valves,had lots towed into the shop where the cams came out of phase and bent lots of valves! Would not make a habit of it usually a death sentence for these older vehicles haha.
John Hnetkovsky Senior Mastertech CMAT Dralle Chevrolet/Buick
Mike's way of disconnecting the right bank, then turning the left with the crank works too, but for sure you have to make notes and not get confused.
@@johnhnetkovsky8917 why didn't he put a gasket on the i
Oil pump , excuse me I tap on that sent by typ o
Hey mate, any chance you know the reason why you have to change the chains in two timings? If you locked in the RH with the flat tool and the LH with the diagonal tool why can't you do all 3 chains at once? I know the procedure says 2 timings and if you don't it will cause misfires but I'm curious of the technical reason.
i am Bangladeshi
very important video
and very very thanks sir
The whole job can be done from stage 2 timing position. Just set stage 2 as shown here, then remove all chains, and replace. the cams and crank won't be moved, so it can't be incorrect.
hey mate have u done it in stage 2
@@user-dz2jd2pz1g yeah, it's how I do all of mine. Never had an issue.
@@Knackersjewels do you have any instructions...we did ours but ended up with a rattle from RH side when we started car...stripped down again and the chain tensioner is not working properly
@@Darrylmc63 did you use an aftermarket kit, or a genuine GM one? I've had a few customer supplied aftermarket kits where the tensioners are DOA
@@Knackersjewels aftermarket one unfortunately
Hey guy thank you for youre video help me out a lot
Really excellent video help, I do admit that the dot marks and the triangle’s were confusing me as to which ones to use to line up the chain’s, but when when I watched the entire video it became perfectly clear to me. I have always been mechanically inclined when it came to taking things apart and then putting them back together, but I haven’t changed a set of chains and an oil pump in many many many years .The oil pump was the easy part I must say. I should mention I did this with the engine in the car not out, a 2010 Camaro, with out the help of this video I wouldn’t have been able to do it. Thank you for that. I turned 65 this year and I have very limited funds ,so I end up doing almost all of my own repairs. Can’t afford the labour rates at most garage’s. Last time I had the crank replaced because of bad rod Bering it cost over $5000.00 at a GM dealer and it was never did run right after they were done, they wouldn’t give me an exact price for the work, had I known how much it was going to cost I would have picked up a new motor. Can’t trust most Garage’s. And by the way, it was just out of factory warranty by 500 Kilometres. Yes i am Canadian.
Hey Steve,
Nice Work! Glad you got it fixed!
Thanks for watching
~Ryan Wilsing
So you figured out the triangles where the marks also? Lol I had the same issues when I did it ….by the way I did my 3.6 vvt with the engine still in car 💪
Does anyone know how long it takes to complete the whole job by pulling motor out and put it back in and firing back up
Hey Nathan, book time on this job is about 15 hours. For the first-timer, i'd plan 20-ish just for some buffer room.
~Mike
Awesome presentation with a lot of patience. Thank you so much. Cheers.
Hey Cadir, thanks for watching! It's funny, I actually don't have much patience. Glad the video makes it seem that way though :)
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
Does it work for 2010 Cadillac SRX 3.0?
Hello Lian,
Yes, the timing chain procedure should be identical to the 3.0L
~Ryan Wilsing
Thank you once more Mike. So this is a non-interference engine? Apparently you turned the crank more than one revolution to put it into stage one position with the right side secondary chain off,
Hey Juergen, that's a good point. I didn't even think about that. Hmmm...I have heard of these engines bending valves though. Insteresting.
Mike Becker, Senior Insturctor
This is a interference engine and has very small valve stems, they will bend with minimal force. This is why the phasers only have 12° of ± variance. the later years only have one set point. There is a set tool "key" guide for the back of the camshafts. This is a A level tech job.
There is reliefs on the pistons as long as you don't let a camshaft snap hard while rotating camshafts manually with 20mm wrench on hex feature and 16mm socket on camshaft bolt; clockwise, you will want to begin rotating camshaft by its bolt 50% into spring load and then grab low on the hex feature with wrench to transfer tension load from socket to wrench against springs and not let it snap forward. Slowly rotating it clockwise with the 20mm wrench; gently landing it, while having enough room to grab it low enough on hex so you have full rotation without smashing hands after rotating so the flats are facing upward.
@@DevJB so what does he do now
@@GoTechTraining are the timing chains on a 3 litre V6 the same as a 3.6 litre
It’s the same job as a tundra Toyota but a v6 .and it’s a cheaper car so should I ask the same price as the v8 tundra ?
I guess that all depends the labor and cost of parts associated with the job.
Thanks for watching!
~Ryan
I have a question about the cams do every vehicle with dual over head cams have flat spots on the cams and singles also?
Hey Josh,
Good question!
No this design is unique to engines deigned to use that type of tool to check cam timing. Some Cams have different markings, some have none at all.
Thanks for reaching out!
~Ryan
I just got a Camaro from a friend of mine that tried this job and he took the bank one chain off before making sure it is in time, if I make sure the cam phasers are where they need to be will it put the car back into the correct time?
Hello Elijah,
Yes, you will have to set the crankshaft back to the correct stage timing for bank 1 and then both cam phasers for that bank before re-installing the chain.
~Ryan
Why even bother with this garbage heap of an engine? They and the cars they came in should have been shipped straight from the factory to the scrap yard
Hey Trent, I don't disagree that these aren't the best engines made...but the customers who own these cars need to keep them on the road...as long as there are people needing them fixed, we will continue to fix them.
~Mike
I have a torrent I’m about to do the chains on. Now I’m wondering if I should change the oil pump. Think it’s necessary? 200k kilometres
I haven’t seen too many oil pumps fail , but it is only a few more bolts. If it were my car I would put the pump in
~Ryan
@@GoTechTraining okay thanks. It’ll be just to sell most likely but figured it’s not a bad idea.
Who is in Indiana that can help me do this job to my 2015 Colorado?
Or how much would someone charge to this job? I know it varies but just to get an idea. I'm not sure yet if my engine needs it but I just bought and it has 200k miles .. Help haha 🙊
Hey, we're in Wisconsin, not tooooo far away ;) I've seen quotes around the $3,000 mark but it will depend on what's all getting replaced.
~Mike
@@GoTechTraining wow pretty expensive fix than.. thanks for the response, now I understand why some people swap engines instead ?
Does the timing chain problem only occur in the 3.6 version ? I have a 2011 srx with the 3.0 v6 currently at 198k miles still running like new.
Hello Diego,
The 3.0L also has had some timing chain issues. But a great deal of the timing chain issues can be blamed on lack of proper maintenance. So if you have been changing your oil regularly there's a good chance you may not have any issues.
Ryan W, Technical Instructor
@@GoTechTraining gotcha. Yea I heard they they occur due to lack of maintenance. Whoever had the car before me probably took very good care of it or had the chain replaced. I do the oil changes on time with full synthetic.
Hello I'm doing 2010 Camaro V6 timing chains and oil pump and saw melling video where they did the whole job in stage one timing with the cam special tools locked in , I assume if they can come off that way they can go on that way , just was wondering your thoughts please!
Hey Jacob,
I have never tried complete the job this way, I assume if the links line up then it should work just fine. The procedure we followed is the GM procedure, setting it back to stage two timing.
Good luck on your timing chain job! Thanks for reaching out
~Ryan Wilsing
@@GoTechTraining thank you for the quick reply, i'm doing it your way!! Makes More sense to me and it's not that much more effort
Very informative, Are these engines interfering? Thank You
Hi William, yes, these are supposably interference engines.
~Mike
Is there a trick to getting the crank sprocket off? Mine isn’t loose like yours and I’m afraid to pry against the oil pump. Thank you.
You may need a puller if it's super stuck
~Mike
@@GoTechTraining thank you sir!
Can anyone explain why the timing marks won’t line up again ???
after cranking it
Out of curiosity, is this the same instructions for installing a timing set on a 2011 GMC Terrain 3.0L VVT engine?
Hi Michael,
Yes the procedure for timing is the same
Thanks for reaching out!
~Ryan Wilsing
@@GoTechTraining Thank you for responding even though this is an older video. I have scoured the internet for information on the 3.0 vvt engines but there is very limited information on it, and almost nothing about the timing chains. I have recently bought a used 2011 GMC Terrain with the 3.0 that needs a timing chain installed…it does run and drive. No shops around me other than one will even touch it. They all say if it had the 3.6 vvt then they wouldn’t have a problem with it. I just don’t understand. Guess that leaves me lol😢. So again, Thank You!
Why are the timing links not on timing marks on old chains when removed
Hey Richard, the colored links are only for the initial chain install. The motor would have to be spun over a ton to get it to line back up.
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
Just curious, I know you say the cam holding tool is not needed. Are the flats of the camshafts on bank 2 facing up when the crankshaft sprocket is setup for stage 1 timing?
Hey Chris,
Correct, if cam tools are available, they can be used to double check cam timing in stage1 and stage 2, right bank 1 cam flats will be up in stage 2 and left bank 2 cam flats will be up in stage 1
~Ryan Wilsing
@@GoTechTraining Thanks Ryan, the instructional videos that you have created are excellent!!!
Glad you mentioned to Replace oil Pump as most people I've done that job for don't think it is necessary then I have a argument over it I wouldn't do the job if it wasn't Replaced, oh yea and Replace Water Pump..
Hey Paul, thanks for watching! Sure, the waterpump could/should be replaced right away too. Why not, you're already there :)
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
Will this work for the 2012 Chrysler 300 3.6?
No that engine is different