The REAL Reason Alloytec V6's suffer timing chain issues!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 มี.ค. 2017
- I could be wrong but I believe this is the reason Alloytec's suffer timing chain issues.
I've done heaps of these engines and have found the same symptoms on all engines.
I heard the design engineers specified a better chain but gm thought they could save coin by using old mongoose bmx chain
🤔
I love this
Hahahaha actually made me lol
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I heard huffy bikes sho knows 🤘🏽🤷♂️😁
Target bike chain
You hit the nail on the head there bud. I've been running my own shop for many years and have seen countless of these engines go the way of the dodo - always the same issue with excessive sludge build up and I might add that as a low friction motor, they are designed to accommodate more blow by than the average other engine (because low friction means less tension on the piston rings among other things). The extra blow by means the oil gets dirtier quicker and needs to be replaced more often than 15,000 km. I tell my customers that it needs to be done every 10,000 max with only full synthetic oil. And as you said the extra blow by causes extra carbon rich gases that need to be vented and often can't be effectively and therefore causes carbon deposit build-up.
hey mate wheres your shop? and is there any way to clean/ get rid of the carbon deposit build up?
Same with the 3.0 v6?
Is it possible to rebuild with different rings and correct the problem or would it cause other engine control problems
If mutable timing cam left and right don't Mach at the same time on the main chain. What would happen. ? Strech
Software ware or hardware?
The reason one bank is dirtier than the other is because there is a dirty side and fresh air side. It is there to keep fresh metered air flowing through the crankcase. Fresh, clean air comes in the left bank and then flows through the crankcase and out the right bank valve cover orifice to be burned in the intake manifold.
I usually see the timing chain issues on more poorly maintained engines. The chains get hot and stretch and the tensioners get starved of oil from the low oil levels.
Moral of the story, change your oil sooner than the oil life monitor says. We had some of the R/V body vehicles that were going 12,000 miles before the oil life monitor told them to change their oil! GM later had a recall to reprogram the ECM to lower the interval. But I still wouldn’t ever go over 5k miles per oil change.
I was going to say the same thing. Fresh air is drawn in the front valve cover, through the crankcase and out the rear valve cover/pcv system. The fix would be to have fresh air brought into both valve covers and the vacuum for the pcv system moved to maybe the intake manifold or a dedicated port in the top of the crankcase area. Even old carbureted V8's suffered from this if they had a fresh air filter in one valve cover and a pcv valve in the other. Pontiac V8's from the '60's and '70s had the pcv valve in the push rod valley cover under the intake manifold and some engines like the Buick Big Block had a port in the back of the actual intake manifold as it sealed the push rod valley. It's like the net generation of engineers forgets the lessons learned by the previous ones.
I change mt oil every 3,000 miles once in awhile I'll let go to 3,500 but never move than that. I run full synthetic either Castrol or Valvoline High mileage. I use STP filter. Bought the car with 92k and just went over 155k I just replaced the spark plugs one coil pack valve cover gaskets and spark plug seals. Cleaned the intake and throttle body. Might get another 70k out of it hopefully more
I’m gonna do it right now, as a mechanical fitter that makes perfect sense.
Bought mine from new, each 10,000 I drop oil and filter, and administer a good quality injection cleaner every service.
It’s done 282 and still runs like the day I got it with the original timing chains😉
This is excellent advice!!!😉😉👍🇦🇺
I'm sorry did you say that you change the oil every 10,000 km (6,000 mi.)? That's about how frequent I've been doing the oil on my GMC Canyon which is what's recommended in the owner's manual and I'm finding my engine being rebuilt with 162,000 km (102,000 mi.) Same side of the engine too.
Did an ignition coil change and I am glad I checked this at the same time. Plastic pipe from the pcv valve and Inlets on the plenum were completely blocked which I cleaned out carefully with a drill bit and a good dousing of brake clean. Thanks for the video, far out.
i replaced the plastic pip[e with high temp hose...and replaced the plastic inlets on the plenum with brass ones..
Thanks for the tip, I'm gonna double check mine
Remove till regeo
I have a 2010 SV6 ute from new, 470,000 klm on the clock 80% Driving in Sydney traffic, change full synthetic oil before 7,000 klm, every time, change oil filter every second time. Engine has never had a problem, just a water pump replaced at 380,000klm.
I read somewhere they made an update to the engine from 2010 onwards and are much better
Slightlymissespelt correct the LFX engine doesn’t suffer from timing chain issues anymore and is a good solid engine
@@badboychris1999 LFX didn't come out until 2011 Series 2 commodores. Sun Rise most likely has a LLT motor - they still have a mirror image PCV system and block design so suffer sluge and thus oil degradation issues, and having SIDI is worse than older LY7 motors as there is no port fuel injectors to keep the intake valves clean
G'day mate, love your accent & your attitude to poor engineering. (bye bye engine LMAO) it's about time we got a fairdinkum Ausie to give it straight and with a fix for the problem. Good onya pal.
Blue Rock ha ha... thanks mate. Thr accent was a little put on for the vid, but my attitude is still the same! 😂
should i buy vz
I have a VZ One Tonner and has the v6 Alloytec and it is very reliable, just do an oil service every 5000Km and use good oil, I'm up to 264000Km on the clock and it still runs great. The most recent thing I replaced on it was the oil pressure switch and that was only $30 dollars and 10 minutes later to replace :)
Have you ever had to replace the timing chain?
J C did you ever get engine codes come up? Thanks
really appreciate this,,i'm a mechanic and have replaced the thermostat in a few,,stupind place to put a t stat,,,,i just bought a commodore with the LE0 engine,,with 270000ks,,youve given me hope ,it started with a little chain / low oil pressure noise,,youve deffinently found the solution to the problem,,,terrific info,,thank you
I agree that the Alloytec is bloody good engine! I have had one for well over 7 years and done over 330,000km on it. It has always been serviced regularly with Penrite HPR5 full synthetic oil and the filter changed every service. Every engine has it's faults but from my experience the issues are minor. The biggest problem I had with mine was the water pump leaking but that was an easy fix.
Penrite HPR5 that's a really good full synthetic motor oil i agree.
THANKS FOR KEEPING IT SIMPLE AND VERY CLEAR SIMPLE FIX!!
Very interesting. Thanks for advice. Was told to avoid a ute with this engine. Also plan to do oil on more regular basis than recommended.
Genius!! You are spot on and entirely correct...thank you!!!
Just bought a VZ wagon that needed a timing chain. Got the timing kit, inlet gasket kit and timing cover gaskets kit online for under $500. Did the job myself on a weekend. Cleaned out the rocker covers and PCV lines while it was apart. She’s good for service again now. They’re a pretty well designed and packaged engine. Better gasketed and more modern engineering than the old mangers.
3.8L buick no trouble
Shit bro where did you manage to find that kit for $500...
@@occy6763amazon, I just did ons...
Yes, I noticed the same thing under the valve covers, same with the pcv vent being plugged ....
Excellent explanation for the newer V6's with timing chins or oil pressure problems, glad my older 3800 II is in excellent nick (Oil + Filter every 6 months).
This is the most comprehensive explanation pertaining to the issues these engines exhibit I've heard yet! I cleaned and cleared the buildup in my PCV for my 2010 Traverse about 3 months before I got the dreaded timing code. I now have it almost completely torn down and ready to explore. Better believe I'll be replacing the PCV with a wider breather setup!
How did it go? What did you replace?
@@BobbyFincher-us3dr I am embarrassed to admit that she is still torn apart waiting to be reassembled in my garage. Being a small business owner and full time student makes time a precious commodity. As far as I can tell, everything looks good. The old chains were stretched slightly so I am hoping the new chains will do the trick. I recently bought a scope to I could peak down the intake chambers and to the crankshaft to make sure everything was good and noticed heavy buildup of carbon on every single intake and exhaust valve and I am trying to figure out how to clean them up without having to remove the heads, which will only delay things further.
@@jamesberreth7171do i engine flush with liqui Molly than drop oil pan and clean the oil pickup where the gunk builds up and fill back up with oil
Nice one mate. Very informative about what is actually causing the failure of the timing chains on these engines.
Ive been told due to poor ventilation and heat build up stretches them
Thank you! Thank you! Finally someone who knows what they are talking about
Sounds like nevvile bartos, your onto something but
"Chopper, there's no cash here. Here, no cash."
Ethan Batt he’s fuckin flying
Hahahahaha fuck yes you nailed it.
Cash no
@@willfuller8436 Look at me mate im flyin. I. Fuckin flyin.
Very informative. I have a 2012 Chevy Malibu LTZ with the 3.6. And I'll be checking it soon. Thanks to your video.
Just took mine out this morning. It was completely blocked. Drilled bigger holes into the pcv valve and now the engine runs very cool and has WAY better throttle response
So drill out the bottom holes
@@MrColeman631 Yes also do them
Could it be the vacuum on the right side of the motor not allowing the oil drain back proper ?the left side pulls fresh air in from breather allowing the vacuum from other side of motor pull it down into crank case on left side. The right side now has to overcome the vacuum etc pulling it up to drain back just a theory what you think
Good call with the changing oil at more like 5000 ks , my daughter bought a ve second hand and I'm doing my research ! Good forum man and the crank case vent is something I'll change out ! Thanks !
I run diesel oil in mine 5/30 you would swear that the oil filter is brand new every time I changed it cleans the motor absolutely beautiful never had a problem
Mate you're onto something here. Used to see this shit everyday (engine builder by trade) and was forever ragging on the old allytech down.
Although both banks on my 175k miles 08 CTS DI motor looked pretty clean during a recent valve cover gasket replacement, this is an interesting theory because I believe the P0008 DTC is the most common indicator of possible timing chain trouble here in the U.S. and that code references the right bank (passenger side in a rear drive car U.S. car). The difficulty I have with the theory is that all 4 cam phasers are exposed to the same environment and as a result I would expect a more random appearing related code setting.
The appearance of the troubled side of the engine in this demo makes me curious about the role high engine oil temps could be playing in all of this as that's one of the significant benefits that full synthetic oil has along with its detergents. Perhaps two additional oil squirters spraying, one on each cam chain along with an engine oil cooler holding temps to 180-200 deg may be the ultimate solution as engine oil runs hotter than the coolant temps and is the reason that some cars use engine coolant to keep the engine oil temps in check. I've measured oil temps on a non DOHC V6 as high as 240 degrees during Summer low speed city driving and I know it gets hotter than that. A chain with a good bit of heat in it has a lot of stretching ability if it's already long and on the small side as the lower the metal density the lower the heat capacity and the greater the ability to expand and distort.
I believe a good engine oil cooler will help this situation as well.
Fantastic post, thank you for sharing the info, clear conscience and demonstrated
Also they are a engine that was originally designed for the Daewoo Captiva as a East West and slightly tilted back to help oil feed and drain back down the right side head as that is the side which sits next to the firewall. It's just Holden being cheap and not developing the engine to suit a North South layout. Thanks for the video I never noticed the difference in the heads.
Theres no ventilation here... Here no ventilation... ventilation? No.
Hahaha not too many people would get that
awesome.
Dave S. Robbo? No Ventilation.
Cash lots of cash here though
Nope no ventilation here
Now look what it's gone and done... Ya mothers all upset.
Excellent job at explaining the truth (not just your theory). I am a ford guy here in the U.S. (Arizona), but I fix chevys most of the time. I always hated Cadillac. I am doing a top end job on a 2005 srx 3.6 and it has bent valves, broken sprockets/ phasers on the right side of the engine. What the crap? Good for me, I get to make money off of a bad design NOT FAIR FOR THE CONSUMER. thanks for the video and keep up the good work. God bless
Funny you should say that , im a Chevy guy and ive made my living off of the Fords & Dodge !
Especially the valve train on the newer Dodge V6 & V8 ..
@@shobud7561 well anything Chrysler related it not going to last 🤣 I'm a die hard ford guy but if I had to pick any other american brand it would be GM
Hands Down The Best Description of this engine !! Keep up the great work mate!
So I initially watched and liked this vid shortly after getting the dreaded P0008/P0017 codes in my '06 2.8L CTS (we call it a HFV6 in North America, no Holden here). Cleaned my 4 CPS and 2 VVT solenoids to no avail. I decided to pick up an excellent condition used 3.6L from a wrecker to swap it out. Took the valve covers off the new(er) one today and although the engine was immaculate compared to the one in this vid, I can confirm the left bank was far cleaner/brighter that the right bank. I'll be replumbing the PCV system and possibly adding some auxiliary oil filtration and a catch can. With that addressed, are there any decent aftermarket bolt ons for these engines?
Some re-engineering would be interesting. For example, cut a hole in the top of the other cam cover and add a threaded tube fitting with a nut on either side and a couple of fiber washers. . Run a 25mm breather line over and connect it into to the other larger breather line on the other rocker cover. It'd be an interesting hack experiment to try to fix an engineering fail.
Lurv this guy. He convinced me with crystal-clear logic and demonstration. I got two Rodeo's. Tomorrow I "piss the damn PCV's off!' Onya dude. Mozzman
Do you just remove that valve and not put anything in its place?
270,000km on mine and no problems. Serviced every 5,000km. Will check the PCV now. Thanks.
Thanks for the vid bro, just got myself a 2009 VE commodore and a lot of people said about the timing chain problem and this video just solved it!
Yes the main problem is the small holes in the PVC valve.
You do have a point, but. Take an ecotec timing chain and compare the two. ecotec chain is very short and fairly solid. Alloytec chains are very long and lighter weight construction; even GM themselves said they are light weight (this was to limit valve train mass). I have worked on too many 20 + year old holden V6 engines that have hone 20,000KM since last oil change and are even on oil filter bypass due to clogged filter and not seen t/chain issues. The longer the chain is the more solid and resistant to wear they need to be. Mitsubishi Astron II 2.6 L 4 cyl had terrible T/chain wear issues for the same reason; in fact I still identify an Astron II by the T/chain rattle before I even see the car.
Second Gary Jessup. Timing chain just went on mine. I haven't had a look but you have a good point.
Great Video ! - Love the info and, especially , the way it;s delivered :-) Thanks !
I'm older and don't drive my VZ much, so I thought the oil'd be OK. After 12 months, it was sludge. 6 month oil changes and the car runs perfect now. Redone breaks, suspension and lowered, radiator, tailshaft, with added catback exhaust, fat low profile tyres with 18 inch Holden mags, and (by the previous owner) a body kit that I've variously been told is Tom Walkinshaw and HSV original (but really, I don't know or care other than I like it), I'm also told it was chipped, and finally just painted matt black also helps. Sure, I put more money into my car than it's worth, but if it's the last car I'm ever going to own, then WGF? It's not an absolute dream to drive, but it's mine and it's better than the HZ and HR, HQ's, HJ and Austin 1800 before it. To drive, it's the best and last car I'll ever have. I like my VZ Alloytec, and the Ecoteckers with their chip on their shoulder can go flail themselves.
From a fellow VZer that cops the flack from his ECO mates, I think I couldn’t have said it better myself. Early oil changes and the ECO mob can go jump🤣
That's GOLD mate, my mums just done her vz injector fkup and rhe mechanics telling her $5000 for an engine replacement, calling it timing chain malfunction. Don't worry thats not gunna happen I'll be driving 1000km and do a it myself b4 that happens... but come on we need more of your attitude buddy and good call. Im gunna drill it out and put a moisture catch on maybe 4inch elbow joint or something.
would you just stick a thin wire down the pcv regularly? or just drill the bugger out?
Where do you get the replacement part from and is there a video on how to change it. Im very interested.
If you just kept it old school and change your oil every 3000 miles, you probably wouldn't end up with that issue. I have zero faith in the oil life monitoring systems. And this is coming from a 20-year GM technician
Oil monitoring systems are basically engine hour meters aren't they? Serious question, I have no idea how they work.
GM hasn't ever released what they base it off of but im assuming (based off my experience as a technician) they use an algorithm based off of multiple factors such as, Run time, Temperature, Speed, and RPM.
@@chicanobluesaz4191 Cool, thanks for the reply. So there are 'smarts' behind the service light.
@@rayg9069 On some.
You cant just base it off 10,000km.
If you drive it like you stole it 10,000km would be too much, the oil would've burnt up.
Same if you do a lot of cold starts
Tow a lot as the extra load will cause more heat for the oil.
So many factors.
We just don't have the exact algorithm they use as in s+a+hXc/$=oil change
chicano--- I agree with you 100%. oil is cheap, engines are not. I own and run a shop, we advise 3k mile lof. anything more, don't cry to me when it breaks.
Hi there, can you please do a follow up video on how you solved the problem.
You have shown us the problem and now we need the solution
there is only one solution, preventative maintaince .
lack of on time servicing is a death warrent for these engines
Tell me about it, I stupidly let it go a few thousand km’s over its service no my check engine light is showing code for stretched timing chain!!! I’m filthy with myself.. now every company wants a fortune to replace it. Wish I could DIY it myself.. company’s want a $1000 minimum just for parts and a whole days labour and that’s without any gears or sump seals . I’m in a real pickle, my bad!!!
Drill modifying the PCV orifice is the first thing to do on the vacuum side of the motor to match later LFX motors increase in size of the holes from factory. passengers side clean air inlet tube from between MAF sensor and Throttle body MUST be left alone. I would be very careful and don't take the advice from this video to plumb both rockers into a catch can or atmosphere - that silly suggestions stagnates the crankcase making it worse - as in 1940's illegal draft tube type of WORSE, modifying crankcase plumbing function is also illegal, it has to work in the form of inlet/outlet for Positive Crankcase Displacement Ventilation, maintaining slight vacuum at idle and cruise
@@Matt-wt9qd Don't keep driving it with that code , my neighbour did and he jumped teeth and bent his valves.
@@Matt-wt9qd When you get the new timing chain make sure to use a catch can off that pcv valve on the right side rocker cover.
Fantastic video, I have a massive breather on mine and i have nothing but trouble free driving , and it is turbocharged
thank you for this explanation. i just bought a VE 2011 3.0 lt ( 235,000 KM ) and will be taking your advice .
Every V type engine will have a cleaner side, and a dirtier side. It is caused by the clean air entering on the breather side, and heats up(and is mixed with blowby gasses) as its drawn through the crankcase to the PCV(vacuum) side. Regular oil changes, and PCV inspection/ cleaning will reduce this effect greatly. If you change the orifice size you will usually cause a driveability issue. Change your oil every 3,000 miles, not every 6-10,000 like recommended. Just my 2 pennies to think about.
Hey Mitch that makes good sense to me. Wonder why they don't have a breather to both banks? I just bought a VZ I'll be having a look at the PVC and clean it SAP!
@@jabax999 They draught clean air across the motor, from left bank where the large hose is through the case and out through the PCV out the right bank.
Richard Skipper You drilled out the holes on the pcv valve with no issues? No cel?
hes saying every 10,000 Kilometers not miles
hey neville, here no cash, cash no ok... robbo? No cash.....
Thank you for good video . Doing a chain job on one I just bought.
G’day. thanks for posting this video. I've heard all sorts of rumours about chains on these engines.
What year Alloytec was this one if you can remember? I heard GM changed the chains in 2006 onwards to a narrower 7.7mm pitch chain from a 9.525mm chain in an attempt to make the engine quieter. I’ve heard that this problem effects the 2006 onwards with the narrower 7.7mm chain mostly.
I have a 2005 VZ with 90k on it with so far no timing chain issues, fingers crossed. I’ve kept the oil changes very frequent.
have you done any timing chains on any 2005 Alloytecs or heard of this happening on any 2005 Alloytec or mainly the later ones?
i have the same model, i too have had no probs. cept i needed to reseal the timing chain cover, so i requested them to do the timing chains...ive had issues with my CPU. changed it 3 times twice it cost me 1500, 3rd time 200. that's my only concern. first-time lube Mobil gave me the whole process of elimination bullshit, then it happen again, called NRMA, it was my starter motor all along.
Recently retired a VZ holden alloytec with 460,000km and it was still running sweet. Never even had the rocker covers off. The secret is NEVER miss a service and always use quality oil & filters.
Great video. I'm off to drill out the PCV and check the covers for sludge. My wagon gets an oil/filter change every 5000km (it's near 275,000km). And even though I spend a fortune on good oil and filters, it's still jet black at it's end (none burnt). Now I understand why. Next oil change, I'm giving the PCV an 'attitude adjustment' and checking the heads for sludge. Subscribed!
So how did it go ??
@@deongoode1351 Sorry for the slow response Deon. The PCV valve was completely clogged on one side (I still have it, but I don't know where to post the pic) the inside of the valve was gummy, all the hoses anywhere near it were all gummed up. I replaced the lot, the valve was cheapest at $40 (from Canada) drilled out the top and bottom. The hoses were a different story. The one that goes around the back was $40, and the main one was $100, both genuine (if you know a mate who knows a mate, Jesus help me!)
Seeing as I went to all this trouble, I also put not one, but TWO catch cans in the loop, and, with great fear and trepidation, put it in for and engine flush (knowing that it might F&%k all the seals).... The greatly feared, "That timing chain rattle when I first start the car noise that tells me my VZ is FUBAR soon" noise has gone from 'not quite a second long' to barely noticeable. It's still there, but my local Holden (now KIA) dealer has gone from, "Your timing chain guldes need doing" to, "What the fook did you do?"
That 'start-up rattle' is how you know how close you're about to engine death. Some people that have a lighter right foot might get an engine code warning, but not many
Did the timing chains on a friends cadillac sts. you're spot on. It looked exactly like this. correlation and misfire codes came back after maybe 6 weeks of trouble free driving. Sits on the curb behind his new civic now.
Thanks for that. How often do you reckon the PCV should be cleaned if nit getting rid of it.
Crank case ventilation in these engines is a problem yes, but its got nothing to do with wear on the chains .
The stretch wear on the chains has more to do with inferior chains and guides and the fact that they are too small to do the job long term.
In fact the biggest single reason for the stretch is the fact the engine is a V6 configuration and the four single camshafts with three sets of lobes will snatch back and forth three times each turn.
Couple that with four cams all doing this snatching puts extreme conditions on the chains, guides and the tensioners .
The shit that forms from the poor ventilation can block the check ball valves in the adjusters and stop the adjusters from locking up with hydraulic pressure and thus the adjusters and guides are pulsating with the camshafts snatching and is acting on the ratchet locks of the adjuster and eventually over time will flog the whole mechanism leading to codes coming up in the early stages followed by noisy operation and ultimately catastrophic engine failure in the form of bent valves, broken rockers and stretched or broken camshaft caps and bolts.
Now if this engine with four camshafts was a V8 or V10 then this snatching tendency is massively reduced and in the extreme other end if the engine was an inline six single cam of old, then there is next to no bouncing as there is load coming on and off the cam at any given time and the only real load will be the total drag imposed bu the springs and friction.
Hope everyone can see the correlation with what I am saying here.
Ultimately the underlying fact here is --
the chains, guides and adjusters is too complex under done in sizing for the job required .
So best to avoid a car with this engine or is there after market solution?
@@kenezos There's plenty of aftermarket replacement components but they do not fix the potential failures nor the design problem.
But I would not necessarily stay away from this engine because of the cam drive issues as it is a very good engine.
People must service the oil and oil filter regularly and definitely not at 15000 km intervals, that is sheer lunacy on GM'S behalf.
If GM had of increased the engine oil capacity and doubled the size of the oil filter and started off with the latter chain and guides, then just about all the problems would not have come about.
That and making sure the ventilation system was clean and functioning properly
@@ScatManAust we used to own a 2010 ve sv6 wagon which was a nice car. However when driving once there was a noise from the engine and couldn’t figure it out. One incompetent mechanic straight away said it was timing chain. It wasn’t. I found that the dip stick showed no oil. No dash light nothing. So this thing was running dry for who knows how long before the noise started. I took it to the stealer who started a case with head office. I had to go to the stealer every 3 weeks for a top up. I knew holden wouldn’t do anything so we got rid of it. It totally put me off. Having said that , I’m looking for a daily driver. I like VF Calais but worry if I’ll have issues, as the previous owner would of just done log book service. So yeah, I don’t know what to do 🤷🏻♂️
Your conclusion sounds about right.
I have a 2005 vz sv6 commodore Ute it sais they have a wider timing chain before they made them thinner in 2006 does that make it any better or is it no good
Great video sir well explained. I just had my timing chain done about two weeks ago and when the covers got taken off the driver side of the engine was so clean it looked as if it wasn't receiving any oil. On the other hand the passenger side was a different story but it wasn't bad at all it was pretty much clean. So my question is what can I replace the passenger side pcv with so it can breath better?
I would just drill out the valve and make it pass through.
You know, I've been on here for years. Spent a lot of time in South Africa, been around a few Aussies. From my experience, there are more honest, fun Loving, truth seeking Australian people per capita than anywhere else in the world.
What I've just written may seem a little bit extreme, but I'm from California I love the truth come what do you think the fires are blazing, there man-made and there are so many truth lovers on the pioneering Spirit California West coast it's not even funny. Thank you, your GREAT! John from Noblesville.
I wonder how you could modify the pcv system and not have fuel trim issues. There are bulletins for an updated cam cover and pcv tube on the older ones btw
Wow great info bud. seems like someone should make a kit for all vehicles that has this v6
someone needs to come up with a double roller timing chain for these. double the chain like the oldschool v8 and 4.3l engines
Great video...just subscribed to your channel. Question. Wouldn't taking the valve out cause oil to leak out and all over the block during normal operation? Is there a way to drill that POS existing valve out and replace with one of a much wider diameter? I own a VF 3L V6 wagon with 55k on the odometer and I have been religious about changing the oil with the most expensive synthetic I can buy. One of the reasons I went with the Holden was that unlike Mitsubishi and many others, it does not use a rubber belt (pain in the backside to maintain) but a robust chain. Maybe I thought wrong! Eek!
will rocker covers interchange from side to side? if so run a dual pcv system on on each side. probbably require a ecu reflash to set new idle values due to it. but it may be very worth it.
The breather isn't the issue. The issue is the breakdown of the oil. This engine requires oil changes at lower intervals, e.g. 5000 miles. That would cure all the problems.
I changed my oil every 5-7,000 km, with synthetic oil, and i STILL got this issue at only 72,000 miles, I drove pretty hard and have concerns my oil levels were lower than they should have been, actually once I had way more oil that I should have had, because a lube shop was doing it.
Definitely they didn't change the oil on time. Thats very abused looking engine, even if we look at the cleaner part....
still need to clean PCV though, should be cleaned every oil change or at least every 2 using carby cleaner & high pressure air until all clear, once you do it regulary its an easy quick job.
I do big long kays in my VE Omega. But, I change the oil out every 10 thousand, not the 15 thousand they lay out in the "service" guide. Full synthetic Pentrite. Taken a while to warm to the alloytec but it's done near on 170000kms and touch wood, has been a good motor. I'll be going back to an EcoTec though if it shits the tin.
My VZ just hit 276k and hasn't missed a beat. Curious to see if your VE is still going.
Is there an easy way to remove the sludge, like running detergent oil in your engine then flushing it, or would that just make it worse
Interesting, My 07 RA V6 Rodeos timing chain went at 89000ks, think I might open this valve up and see what difference it does make. My oil changes where done by the book as well, also using a good oil.
Hello thank you for brilliant information just pulled my engine apart and i was wondering the two different color in two banks you are a great mechanic good on you
This really reminds me of the 4.6L northstar, great engine murdered by an engineering flaw...a fixable one at that....but neither should have their flaw....
GM is the flaw
I think the head bolts were to short on the older 4.6 norstars.
fat cat my mechanic refers to them as “deathstar” engines
Finally someone who’s sounds like they know what their talking about. Cheers mate ! Pulled my pcv out and it was completely blocked! Not game enough to pull the cover off. Big thumbs up for the info 👍
Glad we could help.
You say to just piss it off. Would it be better to drill one decent hole all the way through or do you think what I done will be fine? I’ll be checking that that pvc at least once a month.. forgot to mention that I drilled all three holes bigger.
Did you use a hoist to pull the motor? If so, where did you bolt your chains at? Thanks
Aye think you're royt, mate!
Cheers from New York!
Doing Line lockers on a standard alloytec isnt really good for the timing chain of any engine, let alone alloy tec. I dont give mine too much load, 50% maybe under overtake. Dont thrash the things, then break them, then call them bad. lol. Min is just coming up to 350,000 km (live deep in country) I service it every 50,000 lol and I have zero timing chain issues. I get a lot of blow by though turning up in my plenum and intake tubing. But again, I really go easy on her, and always warm her up till the auto choke lifts off. (approx 60C) and I take it real easy till shes full up to operating temps. Alloytecs are great. the bad thing is the lack of mods. Esp the type of mods that increase longevity and increase "Thrashability"
Well done mate cheers for sharing 👍🏻🇬🇧
Very good assessment I'm doing it right now and was wondering about the crud on the one side of the engine as well as the blocked pcv "valve" lol ...so it can be removed? Vent to atmosphere as it were?
Venting to atmosphere will make it worse.. drill mod the PCV orifice as per LFX specification and leave the plumbing stock - it is illegal to change the plumbing and sealed system of Positive Displacement Crankcase Ventilation, if you vent it to the air you are letting out 50% of the emmisions, and letting in unmetered air (that the MAF sensor doesn't know about) that the motor burns. Think of the PCV as a short pipe from Pre to Post throttle body, with the plate close the only way for air to travel is throught the little tube, now think of the entire crankcase as the tube, its a bypass or idle circuit around the throttle body. This is why the Oil Cap and Dipstick have o-rings - fully sealed system.
there is a new redesigned valve cover gasket for that bank to address some of the oil use issues with that pcv setup ..
Isn't there a SB to drill out the pcv valve out to a bigger whole? This has to be the main problem. Whos ridiculous idea was a 1mm whole to vent crank case pressure?
@@JDJD-mw9rr if you buy a new one, it should be already updated and they are cheaper than buying a drill or the specified size bits. But if you have a drill and bits already then its a free mod.
@@DaBuGzLiFe i don't even have this motor, it was just interesting to me
Deleting the PCV System as you have suggested will make the oil gunking worse as the engine vacuum will not suck up vapours and moisture, you got it wrong too, MAF metered Air enters the Passenger side cover (the cleaner side you show)down through the engine and then exits the 1.5mm port up to the the two plenum vac ports while at idle / moderate throttle, only time any vapour will "vent" from the Passenger side larger port will be wide open throttle conditions which is like 1% of the time. Also Australia wide modifying a engines emissions to vent to atmosphere is illegal and will fuck with the metered air from the MAF sensor and will be technically a strange vacuum leak, a plumbed in oil catch can or cyclonic separator like on my LY7 on the vac side/pcv side is legal as it maintains vacuum, a vacuum sealed clean side separator on the passenger side could also be used.
could it be too the additional heat since that side is not being vented much? seems that would cause for some chain stretch. im about to go into my first one within a week to replace chains and such. Im almost tempted to do the 4 cam phasers as well. I plan to add a catch can as well since mine is Direct injection. Found oil catch can that is vented as well. Be nice if there was a solution. Agree though i seen only passenger side stretch as i researched issue.
In the US we call these the "high feature" V6. We drill out the holes in the PCV. But I think I like you approach of just getting rid of it.
I believe you are on the right track with this issue, but oil brand has a lot to do with this as well. Back in the 1960's my father worked as an engineer with BP. This was before BP owned Castrol, BP's oils were very good back then made with Venusvalian light crude mostly. When I was in my teens 1970's I was into high revving high horsepower 6 cylinder Holden engines taking great pleasure knocking off many V8's with pickup and top speed. At the time of rebuilding my second engine I asked Dad what oil would give me the best engine life. His advice was this, any good quality 20/50 oil with a viscosity improver (summer temps sometimes hit 48C) but don't use Castrol. In his experience every engine he had ever worked on large or small that had consistently used Castrol ended up with hard shellac deposits in the engine, so I stayed away from Castrol. In 2001 I was working in a garage and a mature aged widow came in with a toyota corolla saying her oil light was staying on, her late husband had always looked after the car. We did the proper checks and determined the oil sender in the cam shaft oil supply was at fault, replaced it and all was good. One week later she was back with the same issue. The boss said take the sump off and check the pickup. With the sump off we could see the pickup was almost blocked and there was hard shellac deposits covering the strainer and every surface that did not spin.
It took me more than 40 minutes with a wire bush to clean the strainer and another hour to clean the sump, later I filled the sump with $10 oil and a good engine flush and ran it for 30 minutes. Drained it changed the filter and refilled with $10 oil again and drove it for about 10km, drained it and changed the filter again and filled with Mobile oil we used in the workshop.
When the lady returned I asked her did she know what oil her husband had been using? Her answer.... He only ever used Castrol!!!
Hand on heart .. true story!
I have always use the best oil I could afford, Mobile 1 if I can, sometimes I use additives, never exceed 10,000Km + filter oil changes and in the last 40 years have never had any engine that was dirty inside. Given proflowfab has sighted this issue with timing chains and some Alloytech's have 250000 + km's on the engines and on issues my guess is that is also an oil quality issue, but I will be checking out the vent hole on my recently purchased VE asap.
Hi pro fab im doing timing chain on ve only 85k how much endplay do you think acceptable on idler pulley. I bought a kit without gears and the gears I've got have about
.8mm endplay. What do you think cheers
I'll agree with that it is a contributing factor but there are others that may contribute an even greater part- 1. Engines run too hot now days to burn off HC and that causes premature wear on the nylon/plastic guides. 2. The chain isn't finished smooth on the links so the sharp edges cut into the guides. 3. The chain is made of an inferior material and wears/stretches too fast. GM's problems usually don't lie with the engineers. It usually lies with the bean counters cutting cost and quality of the materials that are used in the design. Too bad, really, It's a strong running engine that could last a long time. Still can if rapid revving of the engine is avoided(bad on the guides and chain stretch) and synthetic oil(reduces wear on inferior parts) is used. Still plan on putting at least one chain in this engine during it's lifetime if you own one.
2014 Acadia with 153,000 miles. Am I at risk????
@@UNITED2009100 Surprised you're not dead already!!!!
i think my 08 cts-4 has already had the chain done as it looks like the bolts have been off once. only 72k miles on mine so lets hope proper maintenance goes a long ways
Thanks for working that problem out. I reckon your right
Mate how do I piss the pcv off can u post a video on what should be done to correct this issue pleas tia
Ads Farr yes, because I'm sure removing it will throw a code and have a check engine light on
Keep calling him bad names
Drill it out to a bigger hole... works every time
Cadillac forums have multiple tabs on fixing this...basically; tap out the 3 hole in the pcv and add a cheapo catch can to it
@@demonqb9 Should/Can this be done on a 2013 3.6 ATS?
Do not vent to atmosphere, that it will only make it worse and break and take the engines design back to the 1940's, mod the PCV orifice as per what is found onLFX engines and newer. Also the rocker cover gasket design was changed where it has an infill panel on the seal over the rear section, the version shown here is the old gasket. There is in fact a link from the cam area to the PCV via a slot in the plastic of the cam cover to act as a built in Oil/Air seperator.
Took a while to figure out why there was an oil consumption problem on my 3.6 Malibu. I'm thinking the updated valve cover gasket and new pcv valve on the rear valve cover will solve it
@@johnnyversaci7091 hey yeah, personally i have a 08 VE wagon with the LY7 in it, have no idea what gasket is in it on the PCV orifice side. Also if you haven't already check this link www.moderncamaro.com/forum/v6-engine-discussion/53385-llt-lfx-pcv-orfice-mod-importance.html , This is further to my original post above where a guy found that on LFX engines the hole for the PCV port is been enlarged to increase flow in the PCV - he had warned GM engineers years before and they took notice, pop out the PCV orifice and drill it out "drill the top hole to 7/64's, and the two bottom ones 5/64's", He also has a great explanation of how the system is designed to work - which applies to many cars on the road and not just GM/Holden. Note you may have more ingested oil from doing the PCV mod, but that's the point of PCV/CCV is to use engine vacuum to suspend the contaminants from settling in the oil and the metal work inside and move them on.
There is a fresh air side(clean) and the dirty side of the pcv system. Fresh metered air goes into the left side and it is pulled through the right side and hopefully just the vapors get sucked into the intake. But if the orifice gets plugged like in the video, it’ll cause leaks or oil consumption. Usually it’s caused by too many miles between oil changes.
Thank you for being you holy moly, also thanks for the advice
Why is it that GM updated the rocker cover gasket and blocked off even more of the PCV port?
This new gasket 99% block off the rear head to sump void, this doesn't exist in the LGX and LF4 TT versions of the motor, if this isn't blocked in with the gasket, the Drivers side rocker cover area over the cams is starved of vacuum/positive displacement - instead stale air short circuits up from the sump/ rear of motor as least resistance, leaving entire drivers side CAM and chains etc to become stagnate and attacked by blow by acids forever. The gasket seals this void allowing CAM to PCV area 100% exclusive path, forcing passenger rocker > cam cover /crank > drivers side rocker cover consistent flow.
Can someone explain a fix. I understand what his saying but can you get a bigger PCV , remove it completely. Will drilling it out fix the problem. Not mechanically minded so i need some help. Thanks in advance.
Block the manifold vaccumm so you don't have a intake air leak, then remove both pcv hose connections and remove that garage. Drill that small pcv valve out then run both of them into a catch can
Mine has +200,000 miles and yes evap system is not the greatest. Still pushing 307 HP and torque around 300! Thanks for the video, the 3.6L high feature engines from 2008 Cadillac CTS are crazy good. 0-60 mph in 3.9 seconds faster than most caddy V's!
lol, I doubt faster than a V seriously but my 2009 CTS is a great car for sure
CLEAN THE PCV VALVE AND KEEP IT CLEAN...Thanks proflowfab for the talk and video on these engines (i just bought a VZ after owning a VT for 5 years) I'll be doing it SAP! If nothing else it's a wake up call to keep the PCV valve clean at least. Mitchs comment that the clean air is drawn in the side that ends up relatively clean side and the dirty side has the PCV valve which draws out the air circulated through the engine is a very good one I reckon. So if the PCV valve is blocked the sour air in the crank case can't get out and circulation of air is stopped. So I think proflowfab you've not got it right to remove the PCV valve because this draws out the air/gas inside the engine and I think helps keep the engine somewhat clean. The one you show looks like it was probably blocked for a long time maybe causing the issue of dirty bank 2. proflowfab you say you've done a lot engines, have you usually found the PCVs blocked? I doubt if this could cause the chain problems alone. Seems good servicing will help against poor GM materials and poor design. (I am a qualified mechanical engineer [mechanic]) but got out the trade after my apprenticeship to go off and play rock n roll for a living, did I say a living? Lucky I had a good wife who had a good day job!
john b.
I've got an 06 rodeo 400k no history of timing chains being done I'm scared to take the rockers off. Although I do service it every 2500 km
Well done. Thats why.
Totally on the money with the engineering and issue but I can't help feeling i'm watching a video cross between con the fruiterer and Chopper Reid.
bahahaha on point :)
great info. thank you from Canada
count me in as a subscriber awesome review and your fully sic voice
Interesting theory. Might pull the covers off of mine and take a peak.
Please let me know if the signs are the same.
Richard Paul good sign or bad
Can I show my mechanic this video and have the problem solved?
if you piss off the return to the plenum will it alter the air fuel mix, drill out the PCV worked well, it stop using water, no condensation in the oil filler cap also. I did add a catch can.
Thank you for this!! Common sense! I cant believe i missed that.