My Glide came with 114 and I am happy with that power. Hard to justify spending $$$ to upgrade to a 131 but I’ll consider it when my Boys leave the house
@@GixxerFoo a Redshift 468 for a 114. And an S&S 475 for 107. 114 is more a torque motor by nature of the longer stroke. Where a 107 revs up quicker with the shorter stroke so is more suited to a HP cam. Most techs will say a 107 to a 114 big bore will out power a 114 to 117 due to the increased capacity/short stroke combo
I enjoy your videos due to the fact that you offer a no nonsense approach to the technicalities and the inherint workings of the Harley Twin Cam & M8, in an format that one can understand and make the right informed decision... thank you!!!
I added the 114-122 kit and I absolutely love it. It's not quite as smooth as the stock 114...but the 122 has incredible torque and the engine feels and sounds like a Harley. The 122 is truly a beast!
Did You use the Cam in the 122 kit or a different one (S&S 475 or similar)? I'm thinking to install that same kit on mine but I was wondering if a great Cam like the 475 can increase number in Torque and/or HP.
@@CVO_MAN I used the cam that came with the 122 package and am extremely pleased. I think my dyno was slightly under the prediction for H/P...but right on for torque. Best of luck with your choice!
Those new Stage 3 kits they have now are really a lot of bang for the buck! Honestly any stage 3 kit is a solid investment, but the new 119 and 122 are a lot for the money and way cheaper than that stage 4.
Thats awesome! It was probably a bit cheaper on the labor just swapping the motor rather than tearing one down and buying the kit! Did you keep your 107 or sell it and recoup some money?
@@GixxerFoo yea I sold the 107 had a question I’ve read a few people talk about noise on top of 131 like a typewriter I have a faint noise but I’ve been told it’s normal for a motor that size What’s your thoughts? Thanks
In my opinion it's better to buy the crate and sell the old motor the way you did! Valve train noise on the 131 l would say isn't abnormal, they use a high lift cam that's pretty aggressive. A little more valve train noise is gonna be expected with rockers and push rods.
Bought my 2018 LR new in 2018 with Stage III, rode out of the dealership with 2 years of Factory warranty on all upgrades. The bike hasn't missed a beat from day 1. One thing is for sure? SE bits are reliable.
Really enjoy this channel. Yes, you need the Stage III upgrade. I went with the HD torque cam and 114 to 122 Stage III. I had it done a couple of weeks back when my 2019 warranty expired. If you are looking at the 2020 or waiting on a 2021114 bike, I would recommend that you do the upgrade at purchase to get everything under warranty. Admittedly, I am a torque junkie. There is nothing like the crisp roll on response with this setup. I cannot imagine needing Stage IV, but then again, those guys wonder why stop at III. I would absolutely do this upgrade again.
I love that torque too myself, if you really pay attention to where the power is at on the stage iv you'll find it's all the way up top. The stage III will track right along with the iv through the low and mid. For me by the time the stage iv asserts itself I am already out of the throttle, pesky things like traffic lights, cars pulling out, cops 😄👍. Yes definitely a plus on getting it all done when the bike is new, having it all covered under warranty or even the extended warranty is piece of mind!
@@GixxerFoo Exactly right. I don't even remember the last time I had a bike past 4500rpm. At some point, it is literally just bragging rights, but I find the 122 Stage III to provide absolutely useful power and torque where 98% of us want it. Great channel GixxerFoo.
@@lenwalkerlaw8149 Thank you! I really appreciate the support, I may not be a good salesman talking someone out of the high end Stage IV and down to the Stage III. The Stage III is probably the best kit out there for riding on the street.
Hello so before you had the stage 2 and after upgrade to stage 3 122 right ? i have also bought a new roadking special with the this kit 122 .. i will get my bike end of this month so i am little stressed if i made the right choice between stage 2 and stage 3...what do you think and what can you see about the difference between stage 2 and 3 ??
@@radumihaibadescu5089 I don't think most people will appreciate the difference from 2 to 3, and I wouldn't recommend it for most. Stage III is for people that just want more, especially roll on power. I would still recommend that people do the Stage upgrades at purchase no matter which state they pick.
Did the 107 to 119, rs 468 cam, utilizing the d&d 2 into 1 big bore baffle. Maxed out stock injectors, so new 5.5 injectors are being installed. All tuned with power vision. Working with dynojet on the right maps. Upgraded oil pump as well. I was already out of the warranty, but definitely thought thought there was significant improvement across a wider rpm range than my 107 with the se447 cam. Dyno tune will occur in feb.
@@GixxerFoo I’ll definitely post after I have the dyno done. Depending on $$ I may look into an hpi throttle body (62mm) and even larger injectors But I think that will be unnecessary....
I did a 107 to 114 stage III before the larger kits were available. My Sport Glide is quick. Based upon the information you have given I think I came out ahead rather than starting with a 114 stock. The bike feels ridable but much quicker/responsive than stock. When I eventually purchase a Street Glide I might look into a 131 third party tuned for a better every day ridable experience.
I just went from 107 to 117 with a Zippers kit. also stage 2 heads and a redshift 468 cam. can't wait to get through the break in miles to "give it the beans " :). this is all thanks to a blown head gasket at 38K miles. that's why I didn't go with HD. their pistons rings are not holding back the oil and its getting into the combustion chamber, increasing the compression ratio, and eventually blowing the cheap head gasket.
I don't blame you one bit for going Zippers, I don't recommend these kits unless your trying to keep your warranty or meet emissions. Aftermarket is the way to go, more power and bang for the buck. You'd think Harley would have better quality than that to keep something like that happening. Let me know what you think of your Zippers when you get that baby broke in!
Lots of great comments below. I like the idea of purchasing a well-maintained bike out of warranty after the research is done to find its flaws and the best bang for the buck upgrades. Might be a great video to make for your viewers.
I love the conversations in the comments these videos generate. It's awesome to get everyone's thoughts out there. That's an excellent suggestion, l am going to have to do a cost break down and go for it.
I took my 114 did a stage 2 torque cam could not be happier really woke it up Cycle World did side by side reviews between a 114 and a 131 crate motor on utube very interesting see for your self if you think these big in stage kits are worth doing
Great video, after watching this one I think I'm going with the stage 3 107 to 114 torque. Was going to stop at stage 2, just needed more information, thanks
M8? Honestly from what l.have seen there isn't much difference numbers wise from 114 to 117. A good cam in a 114 performs very well, numbers are one thing but butt in the seat feel is what counts.
The included SE M8 447 cam on the 119 and 122 kit is the same as the Stage II Torque cam. The 107 to 114 and 114 to 117 Stage III comes with the 498 cam. That's why they include the valve springs on these kits. I would still recommend going full aftermarket kit. The aftermarket 124 and 128 kits cost about the same as the Harley 119 and 122 kits. Of course you'll lose your factory warranty with those.
@@GixxerFoo When it comes to warranty, I get it and I don't. Aftermarket parts can produce more power which can overstress the OEM parts, causing them to fail. But there are also aftermarket parts that improve reliability, yet still void warranty. An S&S or Feuling cam plate and oil pump won't overstress OEM parts for instance. Same for S&S or ARP studs and bolts, lifters, rocker arms, valve springs, compensators, and clutches. In my humble opinion, these really should not affect your warranty. They only serve to bulletproof your engine.
That’s strange that it’s the same 447 cam as the stage 2 on the 119 and 122 kit and yet on the 107-114 and 114-117 it’s a much lumpier higher lift 498cam? Or does that 498 not indicate lift ?
I went with the stage 3 on my 114. Absolutely love it. I will be taking it to the track for harley days. It's at our local dragstrip. I am curious what it will do in 1/4 mile.
If you want to keep warranty you can do these kits. You can get good numbers out of just a stage 2. 17 ultra hd torque cam S&S oil pump cam plate cuffs bearing HD push rods and covers HD ATM tuning module. Works real good on my 107. Plenty of passing power for 2 up
If your going with the SE cams, that torque cam is hard to beat. It doesn't give up anything to the power cam until the redline. Even there there wouldn't even notice the difference, The M8 with the 4 valve heads respond incredibly well to cam swaps.
I know this is a 2 year old video. Still, last year I purchased a new Limited and went ahead and went to the 122. I know guys who have faster bikes than mine, but I enjoy what I have a whole lot and I personally can’t see needing anything else.
@@GixxerFoo I had the 119 in the previous bike. It was a standard Road Glide which came with a 107. The bike I traded for that one was a Low Rider S with a 117. So, because I thought I might get bored with the 107, I went with the 119. I liked it! However, in extreme heat (95 degrees and up) I had some problems with it overheating. The 122 I have now is in an Ultra Limited. I do think the twin cooling works. I think it is noticeable in power and the fact that it hasn’t overheated.
I have a Stage 3 on my 2018 107 RGS. I get 120 TQ and 115HP, which is good. I also had V&H Power Duals installed recently. So those numbers may be a little understated.
The numbers on the dyno graphs are using Screamin Eagle mufflers and a Screamin Eagle Street Tuner. So using a after market exhaust and Power Vision Tune is definently gonna net more power.
Seems like the 107 kit is more efficient with the nearly squared HP/TQ. I have the SE 124 and it has a fairly mild build for reliability love it. Perfect for the street/highway
You get some big inch bore and keep it mild with the cam you'll get some excellent torque and still be very streetable. Keeping it reliable and still well mannered on the street is what it's all about, some will build a too much into a bike and sacrifice reliability.
107 M8 info please ..... if I bored Standard genuine HD 117 cylinders to 119 spec and used pistons from the M8 SE 107 to 119 kit would that work on the 107 shorter stroke bottom end ? is it the cylinders that are different lengths ( Hight ) or is it the pistons .
It's definently a lot less complicated, with FI you have to have a tuner and ideally a base map to start with. Then try auto tune and get close, but your never perfect unless you get it turned on a dyno.
FI isn’t that hard to tune. I know I would be lost trying to take apart a carb or figuring out what jet to use. But I can hook up a computer to a tuner and change a couple numbers.
I bought the stage lll kit for my 2019 Road Glide Special. I have the Ventilator AC, Vance and Hines Power Duals, Rhinehart 4.5 slip ons. 112 HP 123 Tq. My only complaint is the throttle response got worse. Lots of lag in it. I have the Auto tuner from Harley with the wide band 02 sensors.
They did the same thing with the 131 and 128, put it out there for touring line and it would bolt onto a softail but void the warranty. Now the 131 and 128 is I'll say warrantied on the softail, it shouldn't be long. It's not a bad price at about 1600 to hop up a softail, especially when the big inch stage 4 is about 3600.
Nice! That torque cam is hard to beat, it doesn't give up anything to the power cam through the low.and mid. Even on top end the difference isn't even noticeable.
I going to pull the trigger right now on the 122 for my lowrider. Adding clutch upgrade and formula + . Adding S&S 55mm aluminum manifold,lifter cuffs, fresh oil, and all of the incidental gaskets and retainers,shims yadi yadi with labor $3500 out the door. Wish me luck !!! Love your videos G'Foo. BTW does your moniker mean you have a GSXR in your garage? Back in the day I was a huge Matt Mladin fan, along with Nicky Hayden , Biaggi,Bostrum, and Miguel Duhamel, the Formula Fast Ducati Team, Smokin Joe etc etc.
I used to ride a GSX-R 1000 years ago, wish I never sold it now! Lowrider is one of my favorite bikes, that's going to be a blast to ride with that 122 kit! $3500 out the door isn't bad at all, that's why I like the stage 3 kits.
a About $1600 dollars? What he's not telling you is that in order to get this stage 3 kit, you must first purchase the stage 1 and stage 2 kits first. All total about $5400.00 not including labor for each stage.
You would need the pipes and air cleaner first to get the most out of the stage 3 kit. But you wouldn't want to purchase a stage 2 as it is just a cam and the stage 3 comes with a cam. You'd be buying parts twice and getting into the engine twice.
Oh no doubt, the SE kits are built to maintain emissions so they are no where near as aggressive as the aftermarket kits. A good aftermarket cam in an M8 with exhaust and a solid tune will run circles around these kits.
@@GixxerFoo mine isn't under warranty so I'm going to do what I want to do to mine, and probably would anyway lol, but it's nice to get the right information before one makes a decision, thanks for all the info that your putting up brother,it does make it easier 👍🏼💯
Zippers is a really popular cam on the M8, it makes the power and produces a very nice lope. A friend of mine put one in his 107 and it's frickin awesome!
Today just picked up my 2021 Ultra Limited with the 122 kit and power cam, Rinehart DBX 4.5 slip-ons, SE Hi-flow air cleaner installed using SEPS tuner. Give me 500 miles and I will let you know if it was worth $$.
I honestly think the Stage 3 is the best bang for the buck and the way to go. It produces more power in the areas where you're going to ride. With the Stage 4 you don't gain any power in that low to mid and the stage 3 rolls it over in those areas. You've gotta be hard in the throttle to really take advantage of the Stage 4 power.
I'm looking at the 119 jugs and pistons. I've already got a 475 cam and free flowing exhaust. The parts are going to be about $1200 and I'll do the work myself.
I love the vids on power gains but how about building the most reliable engine? I have an '01 FXDX with S&S 510 cam, gear drive, SE cam plate and oil pump, new inner bearings, Supertrapp, 42mm SE carb, big sucker AC. Will go with 95" kit when I am due for top end. Runs FANTASTIC
Greetings from Norway. Love your videos, very informative and easy to understand. So, I’ve got a M8 122 in my Street Glide. Im very happy with it. My question is as following. In your personal opinion , what is the best cam option according to both hp and torque in a 122 and still usable as an touring bike?
I could give you a list of cams but it's so hard to beat a Wood WM8 22XE. That cam is reliable and it lays down insane power all across the board and gives up nothing anywhere. It outperforms every cam available from the low end to the top end. With your engine kit you have it will be a solid 120+ horsepower and torque.
Pretty much, I like the stage 3 setups personally. They make just as much if not more power in the low and mid range compared to the stage 4. This is the areas you ride in most, now a stage 4 pulls higher on top but that's rarely an area where your "legally" going to see.
The 114 to 117 kit is not a good value, I have a stage 2 114 with just the screaming eagle cam and getting close numbers at 117 torque n 103 horsepower granted it has me beat but not by much n for sure its more costly, I'm very happy with the throttle response felt n roll on passing ability at stage 2 its a very fun bike to ride n just begs to have the throttle twisted for bursts of instant throttle, I have to be careful that back tire breaks loose very now n again when riding when i wasn't trying for it to do so lol will I go after my warranty is up n put in a after market cam, like s7s 475, or a zippers cam maybe not sure yet, lets see how happy i am when the time comes right now its not broken in yet at 300 miles on her so things will only get better once i loosen her up ! This was a great comparison you did here, I was looking for one like this, so thank you
Thank you, I appreciate it! That's exactly what I'm talking about! The 117 isn't worth it in my opinion, you can take a 114 with cams and hit the same power for much less. Now moving up past the 117 the torque is the big pay off with those extra inches.
My problem is HD is letting it's customers be the R & D dept. Any kind of big bore is not gonna help with the issues that go on with the M8 motor so I would wait till the aftermarket finds all the fixes then let er rip !
There are some monster big bore kits out there for the M8 from some solid companies like FuelMoto. They're getting some insane numbers and doing it reliably. O would only recommend Screamin Eagle if you're keeping a warranty or meeting emissions.
Yes, the new kits are for the touring bikes only right now. But the original kits are still available in the 114 and 117 versions for Touring and Softail.
It's hard to reason for one of these HD kits when aftermarket ones are great and more customizable, and cheaper. The warranty aspect is the one aspect that makes the HD kits reasonable. 114 to 122ci seems like a more reasonable jump than to a 117. That being said, I'm actually really curious to see what would happen if you treated the M8 like a sportster, and ran a bigbore kit with a stock setup. Kinda like how people take an 883 and just swap in the new cylinders. I kind of want to see what happens when you take a fuelmoto 128 kit and put it on stage one but a everything else stock M8 114.
I completely agree, the aftermarket is the way to go. I would only recommend a Screamin Eagle kit if your bike is under warranty and you want to keep said warranty. But if that's not an issue there are aftermarket kits that produce way more power for far less money, arguably better quality too.
@@GixxerFoo I am running the S&S Superstreet 2 into 1. I am using the race pipe version. had to upgrade the air and went with the SE Extreme. it did the trick and looks good. Went with the Aim VPR SDR ST clutch kit to handle the power. all looked great on the powervision graph no slippage and good power etc. very happy. sort of pricey but what the heck. i am retired and blessed to have the money. got to spend it on something.
I'm just gonna stick to my 107 with a Zipper's 468, Feuling Cam plate, hp+ oil pump, & hp+ lifters. I think that the M8 has plenty of power, just needs a little more torque and oil pump resolution. Always those out there who just have too much $$ and are never satisfied. Thanks for these video breakdowns.
@@chrisdawson8252 have seen some say that the M8's need it, but I think that's stock. I'll see how it goes with the new camplate & oil pump first, if needed will add. I already have a V&H VO2 Naked breather.
Honestly your 107 with that cam would smoke one of these stage kits, m8's respond very well to cams. Very smart getting a upgraded oil pump and cam plate with that new cam too! Factory M8 oil pumps suck, there's been a lot of problems with them. Have got any numbers with your cam installed?
Alright odds are you’ll never see the comment here. I’m going from the 107 to the 119 but using the cr480 cam. The cam in the 107 will put it close to 120 torque with this kit will I get closer to 140-150?
The odds are in your favor. Really going to depend on your exhaust setup and dyno tuning, I would hazard to guess more realistically you'll land in the mid 120's to 130's. But with the displacement increase I wouldn't be surprised if you're closer to 130's.
Hey GixxerFoo, why do you think the 119” / 122” kits do not come with the performance valve springs upgrade like the 107” to 114” and the 114” to 117” kits?
The 119 and 122 use a less aggressive cam, it's the bolt in stage II cam. I assume it's a marketing thing cause if they put the 498 cam in like they do in 107 to 114 , 114 to 117 kit with the added displacement of the 119 or 122 it would rival their stage 4 kit's power. These big stage 3 kits make some serious torque with the bolt in cam and if they put in the high lift SE cam with springs they'd lose a lot of stage 4 sales with the horsepower they would lay down.
@@GixxerFoo thanks for the reply. That explains a lot. Honestly, for the money, if I were going to do a big bore kit on my ‘19 SGS with 114” engine, I’d go with the S&S 128” kit for about $3k. Not that much difference than the SE 122” kit for $1,800 + $700 for the pump/plate. I’d want the oil pump and plate either way. Plus don’t need the silly SE header.
Best part about that stage 3 III is makes a bulk of that power down in the low to mid range. You don't have to run to redline to really get into the power.
Might as well go with full aftermarket parts then. A better cam is gonna void your warranty anyway, why settle for an H-D kit when you can get an S&S kit for the same money.
I was going to go with a stage 3 when I ordered my 20 Breakout 114 but the dealer talked me into getting a Wood Knight Prowler 22x cam instead. With a heavy breather, cam, Vance and Hines short shots and a tune, she's good for (air temp depending) about 120hp with 130ft/lbs. I came in significantly lower in cost and it's fully covered by the forever warranty since the dealer installed it.
@@GixxerFoo tell me about it. I got lucky. I bought her last April during the pandemic when hardly anyone was working and no one was buying anything large. They were eager to sell and even gave me 1k off. Dealers like them are hard to find. I emailed one who was 3 hours away and told him what I wanted and that I would drive to him and buy that day. He emailed me back some copy and pasted bullshit about how they couldn't keep bikes in stock and that they don't haggle price and no dealer would do that for me. 3 State Harley Davidson of Bossier City, Louisiana did. They turned me onto a local credit union who got me a 3.75% APR because I had top tier credit. Harley only offered 7%. The dealer also saved me about $1500 by recommending the cam and setup that I currently have. Needless to say, I take my bike to them for everything now. I was even kind enough to email a pic of my new 20 Breakout 114 to the douchebag salesman 3 hours away. I'm still waiting for his reply. Lol. It's hard to find an honest dealer anymore. Keep the wheels down.
Big fan of stage 3 119/122. BUT.. heads up MoCo replaced the designed for the higher 11-1 compression stage 3 kit, 498 cam & springs for the can’t breathe or rev 447 torque cam. I think this was done because a stage 3 could produce power just a smidge short of the cash cow stage 4 kits. MoCo didn’t want you to know you could get 95% of the power for less than 50% of the kit & labor price of the stage 4. Just tell your dealership you want the 498 cam & springs instead of the 447 cam & springs with your stage 3 119/122. FWIW the 498 cam doesn’t lose bottom end torque like the stage 4 515 cam it simply doesn’t make quite as much top end HP. I have a fall of 2019 stage 3 114ci with 498 cam. It dynoed 118 HP and pulls at 2k rpm in town better than my stocker did.
That's a really solid tip! You get a good cam in a M8 and even a 107 will put down stage 4 numbers. Those Stage 4 kits with the labor install cost are almost as much as just getting a crate motor and swapping.
I have a 2020 Street Glide Special and already have the stage two with the HD torque cam that comes in the kit. I can just purchase the pistons and cylinders correct? Then it would essentially be the same thing. I already have a catless headpipe 4.5" slip ons and a high flow air cleaner. I have a Fuelpak 3 and Vance and Hines told me they have maps for the tune. Sounds pretty simple from where I am at now.
With the cam you have now you can upgrade your displacement and add some compression. They do use a little different cam for the stage 3 kits but with the SE cam it's not a whole lot of difference.
Honestly you can save yourself a lot money and just do a cam swap to a Wood WM822XE. That will blow away any stage kit out there with your stock displacement at 117. It bolts right in too!
I am on the schedule to get a 131 on my bike. But now I’m thinking about doing the 117 stage IV. I’m a little nervous about how thin the walls on the 131 are when I finally go aftermarket.
Just got 2000 miles on my 128 se heads to se makes the best cillinders thay bore hone croshash and the cast the fins thats how Harley still covers the warranty . I like myn so far 👌✌️😎
Is there an in warranty way to put a 114 crank into a 107 to get that extra power. I love the balance M8 engine, but ever since they released the 120S twin cam I’ve aspired to get an equivalent in an M8 with corresponding torque and 110 plus hp. Suggestions? I wish the Electra glide standard had a 114 option.
The stage 3 107 to 114 kit from Harley is really an awesome setup for the 107. It still has the shorter stroke crank but you add the larger bore cylinders and a good set of cams. That setup produces just as much power as the stage 4 114 kit in the low and mid range. As far as warranty they don't have a crank swap option with any of the stage kits.
i.bought an 18 heritage with 107 screamin eagle stage 4.. has sc 515 cam . dynoed with power vision tuner, software...122.37 hp 120.25 torque.. it really doesn't feel that strong.. I think it needs a different cam..
That's really good numbers! M8's respond really well to cam swaps, you can get the power out of a M8 that the Screamin Eagle stage kits produce with just an aftermarket cam.
Fuel Moto has some really hot kits with Wood cams that will seriously lay down some power. Even a Wood WM8-22XE cam, which is bolt in by the way, will lay down just as much as the stage 3 kits in this video.
The entire crate motor stage four thing as labeled by Harley is a misnomer anyway. They keep calling it a 131 stage 4 but it's still 131 cubic inches and the heads are exactly as they came from the crate motor. So stage three and four never happened. It's a 131 with a camshaft and a tune. Lastly as we've seen all inmates stage kits should come with a new clutch because everyone who installs one has the clutch slip on the dyno on the first outing. S&s who I love can go through all the stages end up with a stage 4 and never change the factory head pipe... Putting another header on is not in any of the stages when you're talking about a touring bike that has separate slip-ons and a separate header. They have a TH-cam video up showing the difference between all the stages and the end result still has a factory head pipe.
Harley's stage kits are really quite confusing and a lot of parts you normally wouldn't need. They are emissions compliant as well so that's where a lot of the extras come in. If emissions isn't a concern just a good aftermarket cam and nothing else will put you right up there with the stage kits.
I love Harley's but they, re not out to to right. They rebuilt my trans in 68 sportster when I was 20 in 80,s they charged me 800. After telling me 500. An receipt said they charged me 8 dollars for one washer. I was so pissed had to walk to work for 6 months I ask them to buy another washer so I could have nice necklace have great day
Yeah I am not a fan of most dealers and their service departments. Fortunately my local dealer is the exception, they still do business the old fashioned way.
Hello GixxerFoo, I have a 2020 Road Glide and today I had the stage 3 119 kit installed at my local dealership, however, the dealership said that H-D still hasn't come out with the tune for it, the dealership called HD and they said they are still working on it because they say that the vin shows it to be a CA bike, but it never was in Cali, it was bought and in AZ and purchased in AZ. What say you about that, try a 122 tune or a 114 tune?
In 2020 Parts/ Accessories book page 416 the Power Cam for 114 on both charts seems to show not only More Power But also Torque throughout the RPM ( The Yellow line ) ..Am I right in saying it would feel Faster Throughout Entire RPM ? And would the SE cams be Considered MILD compared to Others Pls ?
The M8 responds very well to cam shafts, and the SE cams aren't bad cams at all. They produce some big gains on the M8, but the SE cams are mild cams in comparison to the aftermarket. To be honest, a good aftermarket cam, exhaust and tune would run circles around a Screamin Eagle stage kit. If you're going with a Screamin Eagle cam the torque cam doesn't give up anything to power cam until the very top end, even there the loss is 1 or 2 horsepower.
have you ever looked at custom frames ? as far as do they come with a "vin #" so you can register them , insurance and so forth. from what i have found one maker in canada does i think and Paughco does too i think. mainly for someone wanting to replace a frame from a salvaged bike or to give it a custom touch and still get tags and insurance for it without a too difficult time. i haven't found much in my research . wondered if you have or can find out more info. good vid
Justin, I can tell you from a builders standpoint, that each state is different. There's so many variables here that you alone need to do extensive research for your particular build. A example is that even if you buy a XYZ brand frame and it comes with a 17 digit " number " , XYZ is NOT a Motor Vehicle Manufacturer, so you can't register a 2020 XYZ. Generally you get a M.S O. with a frame. That means, manufacturers statement of origin. It is NOT a title. 20 years ago things were easier, I stopped manufacturing my custom bikes when they needed to be certified by the E.P.A., and even then that certification was only good in 49 states, meaning NO California. A lot of states have a A.P.S.T. title, which is a builders title, or Special Construction title. Yes, you can insure them most of the time, but they come with the stigma of home-made construction when you try and re-sell one day. Meaning, pennies on the dollar. You can take my advice for what it's worth, but I tell you that I've been there, done that. Always check with YOUR country, and YOUR state as far as regulations. There's no cookie cutter answer to your question. Bottom line is the D.M.V. online, is the place to start. PRINT the information, because in person, talk to 4 D.M.V. workers and you'll get 4 different answers. I don't lie, nor will I sugarcoat anything, and I don't care if I hurt someone's feelings, I tell the TRUTH. Do YOUR homework, because the D.M.V. won't care if you tie up 5,10,15 thousand dollars and you can't get a title. Some states are near impossible. My state, requires a M.S.O. from the frame, engine, and trans, and proof of payment for the majority of the MAJOR components. Then you finish the bike, get a weight certificate, pay the sales tax, and you get a Home built/Constructors title. Good luck. SARGE.
@@t.s.racing ty man. the one place in canada said they give an mso . not sure in my state of MO. ill have to look online more cause the dmv is clueless on about any thing. except maybe hair and nails lmao
@@justin.s9783 you're welcome. Oh and if I remember correctly, HARLEY DAVIDSON only used the engine case numbers for title/registration up until 1969 or 70. But there again you need a original engine, with original paperwork. Reading your original post again, I wouldn't try and build a bike with a Canadian built frame. It would just add to the confusion and paperwork. PAUCHO makes a excellent frame. Of course this is just my humble opinion, all the best, SARGE.
Thank you for your support, we really appreciate it over here on the channel! I don't think I could of explained it better than Sarge, he's quite the bike builder and well versed!
Thank you for jumping in on this one! I couldn't of explained it in nearly as much detail other than contacting the frame manufacturer and trying to get a straight answer out of the local licensing agency!
How about the jugs on the 131 engine and kit vs after market? Are the jugs thicker and sleeves thicker beefier on aftermarket vs the 132 crate jugs/131 kit jugs?
To be honest they are likely all made at the same foundry, there's a big debate on quality of Harley vs. the aftermarket. Really depends who you talk to, but in my opinion if you're buying a big bore kit from say S&S, Zippers, or Fuel Moto you are likely to get a better quality product given Harley's history of cost cutting.
@@GixxerFoo I’m just talking 131 Harley kit BUT replacing the pistons with Carrillo 4.310 / 11:1 ones and the 64mm throttle body with an HPi 62mm throttle body and either a redshift 552 or 550 gear cam from S&S
I don't know if it's just me but I don't feel too comfortable opening up a new engine, changing engine components and messing with it just to gain some power. It's all about making the eagle scream I guess.
With an M8 especially under warranty, you'll want to have your dealer do the work to maintain your factory warranty. Now if you bike's warranty has expired I wouldn't recommend a Screamin Eagle kit, you can get a lot more bang for your buck with the aftermarket.
@@GixxerFoo great advice. In my head the bike cost so much that I haven't spent on any mods. Only thing I added is an engine guard/highway bars. And I am really happy with how it looks and a bit of peace of mind while practicing low speed riding
Those new ones aren't cheap at all, crash bars a solid investment! I've always said they can get you home if you drop the bike or have a crash. Keep the controls somewhat covered and hopefully prevent damage.
You wouldn't need valve springs on the 114 t o122, they use a less aggressive cam that doesn't need stiffer valve springs. They make up the difference in the less aggressive cam with the displacement. With the 107 to 114 kit they used a more aggressive cam to hit their target power the kit was designed for.
It does come with the Stage 4 kit, it is also possible it could of been added all by itself. The only way to truly know would be to take a look at the cams in the bike and tear the top end down.
I have a 2017 road glide special. Currently stage 2 low end torque power. Are you saying that I will see a big HP jump from where I am currently at? Also will I need to change clutch brakes and suspension with this kit?
Not necessarily, the slip ons will work just fine. You would gain more with a full exhaust on a touring bike however with the cat in the head pipe on the stock exhaust. Harley's numbers for their stage kits are advertised with the SE slip ons so even with aftermarket slip ons you'd be gaining at or slightly above the advertised numbers.
Are these big inch kits worth it or would you go with the 114 or 117 inch stage 3 upgrade?
GixxerFoo Stage 2 for M8. Heads flow so well that a new cam can make a surprising difference. Though Warranty is out the window because aftermarket.
What cam did you go with? I would be curious to see what some head work on an M8 would do with a good aftermarket cam.
My Glide came with 114 and I am happy with that power. Hard to justify spending $$$ to upgrade to a 131 but I’ll consider it when my Boys leave the house
The 114 produces torque with its longer stroke, a nice aftermarket cam will really wake it up. M8's and the 4 valve heads respond incredibly well.
@@GixxerFoo a Redshift 468 for a 114. And an S&S 475 for 107. 114 is more a torque motor by nature of the longer stroke. Where a 107 revs up quicker with the shorter stroke so is more suited to a HP cam. Most techs will say a 107 to a 114 big bore will out power a 114 to 117 due to the increased capacity/short stroke combo
I enjoy your videos due to the fact that you offer a no nonsense approach to the technicalities and the inherint workings of the Harley Twin Cam & M8, in an format that one can understand and make the right informed decision... thank you!!!
I really appreciate that, my goal isn't to baffle with bs but be straight forward. We appreciate your support over here on the channel!
I added the 114-122 kit and I absolutely love it. It's not quite as smooth as the stock 114...but the 122 has incredible torque and the engine feels and sounds like a Harley. The 122 is truly a beast!
I love the stage 3 kits since they are absolutely usable power where you ride on the street and it's not all up on top.
What brand? SE?
Did You use the Cam in the 122 kit or a different one (S&S 475 or similar)? I'm thinking to install that same kit on mine but I was wondering if a great Cam like the 475 can increase number in Torque and/or HP.
@@CVO_MAN I used the cam that came with the 122 package and am extremely pleased. I think my dyno was slightly under the prediction for H/P...but right on for torque. Best of luck with your choice!
@@indyrunnerii thank You for Your prompt reply Kent.
Recently converted my 2021 107 to the Stage III 119 kit. That bike rocks. For me, the price was well worth it.
Those new Stage 3 kits they have now are really a lot of bang for the buck! Honestly any stage 3 kit is a solid investment, but the new 119 and 122 are a lot for the money and way cheaper than that stage 4.
@@GixxerFoo my 2021 roadking with the 119 kit wow very happy its rock & roll time
I took my 107 pulled it dropped in a 131 crate love it
Thats awesome! It was probably a bit cheaper on the labor just swapping the motor rather than tearing one down and buying the kit! Did you keep your 107 or sell it and recoup some money?
@@GixxerFoo yea I sold the 107 had a question I’ve read a few people talk about noise on top of 131 like a typewriter I have a faint noise but I’ve been told it’s normal for a motor that size What’s your thoughts? Thanks
In my opinion it's better to buy the crate and sell the old motor the way you did! Valve train noise on the 131 l would say isn't abnormal, they use a high lift cam that's pretty aggressive. A little more valve train noise is gonna be expected with rockers and push rods.
What model do you ride?
@@MrPAULONEAL 2017 RG
Bought my 2018 LR new in 2018 with Stage III, rode out of the dealership with 2 years of Factory warranty on all upgrades. The bike hasn't missed a beat from day 1. One thing is for sure? SE bits are reliable.
Doing the 119 now, will change out the cam and tuner after warranty.. ci is where it’s at !
Hell yeah especially when you add that aftermarket cam! That displacement really shines bumping those valves.
Really enjoy this channel. Yes, you need the Stage III upgrade. I went with the HD torque cam and 114 to 122 Stage III. I had it done a couple of weeks back when my 2019 warranty expired. If you are looking at the 2020 or waiting on a 2021114 bike, I would recommend that you do the upgrade at purchase to get everything under warranty. Admittedly, I am a torque junkie. There is nothing like the crisp roll on response with this setup. I cannot imagine needing Stage IV, but then again, those guys wonder why stop at III. I would absolutely do this upgrade again.
I love that torque too myself, if you really pay attention to where the power is at on the stage iv you'll find it's all the way up top. The stage III will track right along with the iv through the low and mid. For me by the time the stage iv asserts itself I am already out of the throttle, pesky things like traffic lights, cars pulling out, cops 😄👍. Yes definitely a plus on getting it all done when the bike is new, having it all covered under warranty or even the extended warranty is piece of mind!
@@GixxerFoo Exactly right. I don't even remember the last time I had a bike past 4500rpm. At some point, it is literally just bragging rights, but I find the 122 Stage III to provide absolutely useful power and torque where 98% of us want it. Great channel GixxerFoo.
@@lenwalkerlaw8149 Thank you! I really appreciate the support, I may not be a good salesman talking someone out of the high end Stage IV and down to the Stage III. The Stage III is probably the best kit out there for riding on the street.
Hello so before you had the stage 2 and after upgrade to stage 3 122 right ? i have also bought a new roadking special with the this kit 122 .. i will get my bike end of this month so i am little stressed if i made the right choice between stage 2 and stage 3...what do you think and what can you see about the difference between stage 2 and 3 ??
@@radumihaibadescu5089 I don't think most people will appreciate the difference from 2 to 3, and I wouldn't recommend it for most. Stage III is for people that just want more, especially roll on power. I would still recommend that people do the Stage upgrades at purchase no matter which state they pick.
Took my 18 rks from 107 to a 128 stage 3. Bike flies now. Real happy with it.
I am fan of the stage 3, it puts that power right where you ride and will used it most.
how does it compares to stage 4?
Did the 107 to 119, rs 468 cam, utilizing the d&d 2 into 1 big bore baffle. Maxed out stock injectors, so new 5.5 injectors are being installed. All tuned with power vision. Working with dynojet on the right maps. Upgraded oil pump as well. I was already out of the warranty, but definitely thought thought there was significant improvement across a wider rpm range than my 107 with the se447 cam. Dyno tune will occur in feb.
I'll be curious to hear about what numbers you turn with setup, that cam and injectors will make a huge difference!
@@GixxerFoo I’ll definitely post after I have the dyno done. Depending on $$ I may look into an hpi throttle body (62mm) and even larger injectors But I think that will be unnecessary....
I know it's been a bit, swapped the cam out again and replaced the lifters....got it dyno tuned. 136hp/142tq. Star racing 30/30 cam
I did a 107 to 114 stage III before the larger kits were available. My Sport Glide is quick. Based upon the information you have given I think I came out ahead rather than starting with a 114 stock. The bike feels ridable but much quicker/responsive than stock. When I eventually purchase a Street Glide I might look into a 131 third party tuned for a better every day ridable experience.
I just went from 107 to 117 with a Zippers kit. also stage 2 heads and a redshift 468 cam. can't wait to get through the break in miles to "give it the beans " :). this is all thanks to a blown head gasket at 38K miles. that's why I didn't go with HD. their pistons rings are not holding back the oil and its getting into the combustion chamber, increasing the compression ratio, and eventually blowing the cheap head gasket.
I don't blame you one bit for going Zippers, I don't recommend these kits unless your trying to keep your warranty or meet emissions. Aftermarket is the way to go, more power and bang for the buck. You'd think Harley would have better quality than that to keep something like that happening. Let me know what you think of your Zippers when you get that baby broke in!
@@GixxerFoo will do.
Lots of great comments below. I like the idea of purchasing a well-maintained bike out of warranty after the research is done to find its flaws and the best bang for the buck upgrades. Might be a great video to make for your viewers.
I love the conversations in the comments these videos generate. It's awesome to get everyone's thoughts out there. That's an excellent suggestion, l am going to have to do a cost break down and go for it.
Just found a dyno thread from a forum with a 119, woods 22xe 2into1into2, 126/131 I’d be happy with this
I've got a video on the 22xe cam, that thing is insane! th-cam.com/video/-7xrw--tY2c/w-d-xo.html
I took my 114 did a stage 2 torque cam could not be happier really woke it up Cycle World did side by side reviews between a 114 and a 131 crate motor on utube very interesting see for your self if you think these big in stage kits are worth doing
Great video, after watching this one I think I'm going with the stage 3 107 to 114 torque. Was going to stop at stage 2, just needed more information, thanks
Great video explaining stages and what you get because Harley doesn't tell you shit! Thanks
Very welcome, Harley is very vague and if you look at what comes in the kit and what they say is required it really makes you wonder.
big motors are trending now i want to do the 114 to 117 stage III but don,t want to regret going bigger later
M8? Honestly from what l.have seen there isn't much difference numbers wise from 114 to 117. A good cam in a 114 performs very well, numbers are one thing but butt in the seat feel is what counts.
The included SE M8 447 cam on the 119 and 122 kit is the same as the Stage II Torque cam.
The 107 to 114 and 114 to 117 Stage III comes with the 498 cam. That's why they include the valve springs on these kits.
I would still recommend going full aftermarket kit. The aftermarket 124 and 128 kits cost about the same as the Harley 119 and 122 kits. Of course you'll lose your factory warranty with those.
I wouldn't recommend a Harley kit unless warranty is a concern, if it's not the aftermarket is the way to go for sure!
@@GixxerFoo When it comes to warranty, I get it and I don't. Aftermarket parts can produce more power which can overstress the OEM parts, causing them to fail. But there are also aftermarket parts that improve reliability, yet still void warranty.
An S&S or Feuling cam plate and oil pump won't overstress OEM parts for instance. Same for S&S or ARP studs and bolts, lifters, rocker arms, valve springs, compensators, and clutches. In my humble opinion, these really should not affect your warranty. They only serve to bulletproof your engine.
That’s strange that it’s the same 447 cam as the stage 2 on the 119 and 122 kit and yet on the 107-114 and 114-117 it’s a much lumpier higher lift 498cam? Or does that 498 not indicate lift ?
I went with the stage 3 on my 114. Absolutely love it. I will be taking it to the track for harley days. It's at our local dragstrip. I am curious what it will do in 1/4 mile.
Which stage 3 kit did you go with?
If you want to keep warranty you can do these kits. You can get good numbers out of just a stage 2. 17 ultra hd torque cam S&S oil pump cam plate cuffs bearing HD push rods and covers HD ATM tuning module. Works real good on my 107. Plenty of passing power for 2 up
If your going with the SE cams, that torque cam is hard to beat. It doesn't give up anything to the power cam until the redline. Even there there wouldn't even notice the difference, The M8 with the 4 valve heads respond incredibly well to cam swaps.
I know this is a 2 year old video. Still, last year I purchased a new Limited and went ahead and went to the 122. I know guys who have faster bikes than mine, but I enjoy what I have a whole lot and I personally can’t see needing anything else.
I really like those big bore Stage 3 kits in the 119 and 122, they are a perfect middle ground if you just want a big bump without being too crazy.
@@GixxerFoo I had the 119 in the previous bike. It was a standard Road Glide which came with a 107. The bike I traded for that one was a Low Rider S with a 117. So, because I thought I might get bored with the 107, I went with the 119. I liked it! However, in extreme heat (95 degrees and up) I had some problems with it overheating. The 122 I have now is in an Ultra Limited. I do think the twin cooling works. I think it is noticeable in power and the fact that it hasn’t overheated.
I have a Stage 3 on my 2018 107 RGS. I get 120 TQ and 115HP, which is good. I also had V&H Power Duals installed recently. So those numbers may be a little understated.
The numbers on the dyno graphs are using Screamin Eagle mufflers and a Screamin Eagle Street Tuner. So using a after market exhaust and Power Vision Tune is definently gonna net more power.
What tuner did you use Jerry❓
EmeraldCityCarpenter I used the Harley tuner. I wanted to keep it all Harley at the time.
I am planning on going with the 107 to 119 kit
114 Softail stage 2 with a pro tuner is good enough for me.
It's crazy some of the numbers they are getting out of those M8's with a cam swap!
Seems like the 107 kit is more efficient with the nearly squared HP/TQ. I have the SE 124 and it has a fairly mild build for reliability love it. Perfect for the street/highway
You get some big inch bore and keep it mild with the cam you'll get some excellent torque and still be very streetable. Keeping it reliable and still well mannered on the street is what it's all about, some will build a too much into a bike and sacrifice reliability.
107 M8 info please ..... if I bored Standard genuine HD 117 cylinders to 119 spec and used pistons from the M8 SE 107 to 119 kit would that work on the 107 shorter stroke bottom end ? is it the cylinders that are different lengths ( Hight ) or is it the pistons .
I'll stick with my carbureted twin cam where I can jet my carb on any modifications with out having to have the dealer hook up to the ecm.
It's definently a lot less complicated, with FI you have to have a tuner and ideally a base map to start with. Then try auto tune and get close, but your never perfect unless you get it turned on a dyno.
FI isn’t that hard to tune. I know I would be lost trying to take apart a carb or figuring out what jet to use. But I can hook up a computer to a tuner and change a couple numbers.
@@TeensierPython I'm just the opposite lol
114 to 122 went to max power 110.42 max torque 133.40. So it just depends
Good job my man- Subscribed/liked. Good luck with the channel
Thank you! I appreciate the support!
Went from 114 to 131, awesome power, having issues with the HD tuner, going to move to power vision. By warranty.
The bike will run a lot better with a PV tune!
I bought the stage lll kit for my 2019 Road Glide Special. I have the Ventilator AC, Vance and Hines Power Duals, Rhinehart 4.5 slip ons. 112 HP 123 Tq. My only complaint is the throttle response got worse. Lots of lag in it. I have the Auto tuner from Harley with the wide band 02 sensors.
There is no replacement for displacement! I am waiting for H-D to warranty the big inch motors for the softail.
They did the same thing with the 131 and 128, put it out there for touring line and it would bolt onto a softail but void the warranty. Now the 131 and 128 is I'll say warrantied on the softail, it shouldn't be long. It's not a bad price at about 1600 to hop up a softail, especially when the big inch stage 4 is about 3600.
@@GixxerFoo Thanks! I did the Stage 2 with the torque cam out of the showroom. I will be adding displacement to my 114.
Nice! That torque cam is hard to beat, it doesn't give up anything to the power cam through the low.and mid. Even on top end the difference isn't even noticeable.
I going to pull the trigger right now on the 122 for my lowrider. Adding clutch upgrade and formula + . Adding S&S 55mm aluminum manifold,lifter cuffs, fresh oil, and all of the incidental gaskets and retainers,shims yadi yadi with labor $3500 out the door. Wish me luck !!! Love your videos G'Foo. BTW does your moniker mean you have a GSXR in your garage? Back in the day I was a huge Matt Mladin fan, along with Nicky Hayden , Biaggi,Bostrum, and Miguel Duhamel, the Formula Fast Ducati Team, Smokin Joe etc etc.
I used to ride a GSX-R 1000 years ago, wish I never sold it now! Lowrider is one of my favorite bikes, that's going to be a blast to ride with that 122 kit! $3500 out the door isn't bad at all, that's why I like the stage 3 kits.
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About $1600 dollars? What he's not telling you is that in order to get this stage 3 kit, you must first purchase the stage 1 and stage 2 kits first. All total about $5400.00 not including labor for each stage.
You would need the pipes and air cleaner first to get the most out of the stage 3 kit. But you wouldn't want to purchase a stage 2 as it is just a cam and the stage 3 comes with a cam. You'd be buying parts twice and getting into the engine twice.
Thanks for all the info,I appreciate it.
You bet! I hope it was helpful!
All those Harley kits fall short. I understand why but, you can get way bigger power aftermarket. Probably better longevity too.
Oh no doubt, the SE kits are built to maintain emissions so they are no where near as aggressive as the aftermarket kits. A good aftermarket cam in an M8 with exhaust and a solid tune will run circles around these kits.
Hey GixxerFoo,as always, great break down on the stage Kit's brother 💯
Thank you, I had some requests for some M8 content and there's a lot of M8's under warranty right now.
@@GixxerFoo mine isn't under warranty so I'm going to do what I want to do to mine, and probably would anyway lol, but it's nice to get the right information before one makes a decision, thanks for all the info that your putting up brother,it does make it easier 👍🏼💯
I really appreciate that! The M8 heads flow really well, just a good aftermarket cam will does wonders for them!
@@GixxerFoo yeah I'm still tossing around which one I want, I'm leaning towards the S&S or the zipper, still kinda undecided tho,
Zippers is a really popular cam on the M8, it makes the power and produces a very nice lope. A friend of mine put one in his 107 and it's frickin awesome!
Today just picked up my 2021 Ultra Limited with the 122 kit and power cam, Rinehart DBX 4.5 slip-ons, SE Hi-flow air cleaner installed using SEPS tuner. Give me 500 miles and I will
let you know if it was worth $$.
I honestly think the Stage 3 is the best bang for the buck and the way to go. It produces more power in the areas where you're going to ride. With the Stage 4 you don't gain any power in that low to mid and the stage 3 rolls it over in those areas. You've gotta be hard in the throttle to really take advantage of the Stage 4 power.
I'm looking at the 119 jugs and pistons.
I've already got a 475 cam and free flowing exhaust.
The parts are going to be about $1200 and I'll do the work myself.
I love the vids on power gains but how about building the most reliable engine? I have an '01 FXDX with S&S 510 cam, gear drive, SE cam plate and oil pump, new inner bearings, Supertrapp, 42mm SE carb, big sucker AC. Will go with 95" kit when I am due for top end. Runs FANTASTIC
There's a lot to be said about the short stroke of the 88, you're setup with a 95 is hard to beat for reliable hot rod harley!
Great video and excellent detail that I was seeking.
Greetings from Norway. Love your videos, very informative and easy to understand. So, I’ve got a M8 122 in my Street Glide. Im very happy with it. My question is as following. In your personal opinion , what is the best cam option according to both hp and torque in a 122 and still usable as an touring bike?
I could give you a list of cams but it's so hard to beat a Wood WM8 22XE. That cam is reliable and it lays down insane power all across the board and gives up nothing anywhere. It outperforms every cam available from the low end to the top end. With your engine kit you have it will be a solid 120+ horsepower and torque.
My biggest needs for power are when passing or rolling onto the freeway so it looks like any kit addresses these situations.
Pretty much, I like the stage 3 setups personally. They make just as much if not more power in the low and mid range compared to the stage 4. This is the areas you ride in most, now a stage 4 pulls higher on top but that's rarely an area where your "legally" going to see.
Thanks for posting make this clear I am a Harley-Davidson man also know stock price overpriced underpowered awful lot of quick bikes out there
The 114 to 117 kit is not a good value, I have a stage 2 114 with just the screaming eagle cam and getting close numbers at 117 torque n 103 horsepower granted it has me beat but not by much n for sure its more costly, I'm very happy with the throttle response felt n roll on passing ability at stage 2 its a very fun bike to ride n just begs to have the throttle twisted for bursts of instant throttle, I have to be careful that back tire breaks loose very now n again when riding when i wasn't trying for it to do so lol will I go after my warranty is up n put in a after market cam, like s7s 475, or a zippers cam maybe not sure yet, lets see how happy i am when the time comes right now its not broken in yet at 300 miles on her so things will only get better once i loosen her up ! This was a great comparison you did here, I was looking for one like this, so thank you
Thank you, I appreciate it! That's exactly what I'm talking about! The 117 isn't worth it in my opinion, you can take a 114 with cams and hit the same power for much less. Now moving up past the 117 the torque is the big pay off with those extra inches.
My problem is HD is letting it's customers be the R & D dept. Any kind of big bore is not gonna help with the issues that go on with the M8 motor so I would wait till the aftermarket finds all the fixes then let er rip !
There are some monster big bore kits out there for the M8 from some solid companies like FuelMoto. They're getting some insane numbers and doing it reliably. O would only recommend Screamin Eagle if you're keeping a warranty or meeting emissions.
Uuuuhhhh. The new stage 3 kits take a 107 to 119. And the 114 to a 122.
Yes, the new kits are for the touring bikes only right now. But the original kits are still available in the 114 and 117 versions for Touring and Softail.
It's hard to reason for one of these HD kits when aftermarket ones are great and more customizable, and cheaper.
The warranty aspect is the one aspect that makes the HD kits reasonable.
114 to 122ci seems like a more reasonable jump than to a 117.
That being said, I'm actually really curious to see what would happen if you treated the M8 like a sportster, and ran a bigbore kit with a stock setup. Kinda like how people take an 883 and just swap in the new cylinders.
I kind of want to see what happens when you take a fuelmoto 128 kit and put it on stage one but a everything else stock M8 114.
I completely agree, the aftermarket is the way to go. I would only recommend a Screamin Eagle kit if your bike is under warranty and you want to keep said warranty. But if that's not an issue there are aftermarket kits that produce way more power for far less money, arguably better quality too.
I’ll keep my 131
😄😄👍 Well hell yeah! You got the beast, how are you liking that 131?
@@GixxerFoo i got the 131 Harley Kit on my 2018 114 Heritage and i notice the compression is 10.7:1. i love mine. Power vision tune.
Whew with the Power Vision tune they really come to life, they like that richer tune. What are running for exhaust?
@@GixxerFoo I am running the S&S Superstreet 2 into 1. I am using the race pipe version. had to upgrade the
air and went with the SE Extreme. it did the trick and looks good. Went with the Aim VPR SDR ST clutch kit to handle the power. all looked great on the powervision graph no slippage and good power etc. very happy. sort of pricey but what the heck. i am retired and blessed to have the money. got to spend it on something.
I don't blame you one bit, just good to hear you are enjoying your retirement and getting your bike the way you want it!
Touring models are the only models that matter.
Had the power cam 462 put in my 114 and got 109 hp and 123 fpt coming in at 2900 rpm to red line
That's some damn good numbers, M8 motors love a good cam!
I'm just gonna stick to my 107 with a Zipper's 468, Feuling Cam plate, hp+ oil pump, & hp+ lifters. I think that the M8 has plenty of power, just needs a little more torque and oil pump resolution. Always those out there who just have too much $$ and are never satisfied. Thanks for these video breakdowns.
Are you going to add a fueling vented dipstick?
@@chrisdawson8252 have seen some say that the M8's need it, but I think that's stock. I'll see how it goes with the new camplate & oil pump first, if needed will add. I already have a V&H VO2 Naked breather.
Honestly your 107 with that cam would smoke one of these stage kits, m8's respond very well to cams. Very smart getting a upgraded oil pump and cam plate with that new cam too! Factory M8 oil pumps suck, there's been a lot of problems with them. Have got any numbers with your cam installed?
That's another good upgrade for the M8, especially with the sumping issues.
The issue with sumping on the M8 varies wildly from engine to engine, just the like the cam chains on the TC88 did.
Where did see the header is included? The HD website don’t show that as included?
Alright odds are you’ll never see the comment here. I’m going from the 107 to the 119 but using the cr480 cam. The cam in the 107 will put it close to 120 torque with this kit will I get closer to 140-150?
The odds are in your favor. Really going to depend on your exhaust setup and dyno tuning, I would hazard to guess more realistically you'll land in the mid 120's to 130's. But with the displacement increase I wouldn't be surprised if you're closer to 130's.
Hey GixxerFoo, why do you think the 119” / 122” kits do not come with the performance valve springs upgrade like the 107” to 114” and the 114” to 117” kits?
The 119 and 122 use a less aggressive cam, it's the bolt in stage II cam. I assume it's a marketing thing cause if they put the 498 cam in like they do in 107 to 114 , 114 to 117 kit with the added displacement of the 119 or 122 it would rival their stage 4 kit's power. These big stage 3 kits make some serious torque with the bolt in cam and if they put in the high lift SE cam with springs they'd lose a lot of stage 4 sales with the horsepower they would lay down.
@@GixxerFoo thanks for the reply. That explains a lot. Honestly, for the money, if I were going to do a big bore kit on my ‘19 SGS with 114” engine, I’d go with the S&S 128” kit for about $3k. Not that much difference than the SE 122” kit for $1,800 + $700 for the pump/plate. I’d want the oil pump and plate either way. Plus don’t need the silly SE header.
Do a review for stage 3 for us that have a 117 CVO please..its so hard to find
I have the stage lll 114 to 117 dynoed at 112hp 123 torque
Best part about that stage 3 III is makes a bulk of that power down in the low to mid range. You don't have to run to redline to really get into the power.
@@GixxerFoo mine seems to get on the cam about 3200 rpm all the way to redline. It’s got plenty of torque down low too
I’d go the 119/122 kit, but get a better cam to get larger power #’s
You're right, the Screamin Eagle cams are very mild and don't let that displacement realize it's true potential.
Might as well go with full aftermarket parts then. A better cam is gonna void your warranty anyway, why settle for an H-D kit when you can get an S&S kit for the same money.
Great video thanks for the info great detail new subscriber
I. Like. All. Of. Your. Videos. You. Is. Good
Thank you, I appreciate it!
Good info with real numbers.
I was going to go with a stage 3 when I ordered my 20 Breakout 114 but the dealer talked me into getting a Wood Knight Prowler 22x cam instead. With a heavy breather, cam, Vance and Hines short shots and a tune, she's good for (air temp depending) about 120hp with 130ft/lbs. I came in significantly lower in cost and it's fully covered by the forever warranty since the dealer installed it.
That's awesome, the dealer actually steered you right!
@@GixxerFoo tell me about it. I got lucky. I bought her last April during the pandemic when hardly anyone was working and no one was buying anything large. They were eager to sell and even gave me 1k off. Dealers like them are hard to find. I emailed one who was 3 hours away and told him what I wanted and that I would drive to him and buy that day. He emailed me back some copy and pasted bullshit about how they couldn't keep bikes in stock and that they don't haggle price and no dealer would do that for me. 3 State Harley Davidson of Bossier City, Louisiana did. They turned me onto a local credit union who got me a 3.75% APR because I had top tier credit. Harley only offered 7%. The dealer also saved me about $1500 by recommending the cam and setup that I currently have. Needless to say, I take my bike to them for everything now. I was even kind enough to email a pic of my new 20 Breakout 114 to the douchebag salesman 3 hours away. I'm still waiting for his reply. Lol. It's hard to find an honest dealer anymore. Keep the wheels down.
Big fan of stage 3 119/122. BUT..
heads up MoCo replaced the designed for the higher 11-1 compression stage 3 kit, 498 cam & springs for the can’t breathe or rev 447 torque cam.
I think this was done because a stage 3 could produce power just a smidge short of the cash cow stage 4 kits. MoCo didn’t want you to know you could get 95% of the power for less than 50% of the kit & labor price of the stage 4.
Just tell your dealership you want the 498 cam & springs instead of the 447 cam & springs with your stage 3 119/122.
FWIW the 498 cam doesn’t lose bottom end torque like the stage 4 515 cam it simply doesn’t make quite as much top end HP. I have a fall of 2019 stage 3 114ci with 498 cam. It dynoed 118 HP and pulls at 2k rpm in town better than my stocker did.
That's a really solid tip! You get a good cam in a M8 and even a 107 will put down stage 4 numbers. Those Stage 4 kits with the labor install cost are almost as much as just getting a crate motor and swapping.
I want to build a 150+ hp na bike and then when it hits 50k, take it to trask for a good sized turbo kit.
A trask turbo alone can get it there pretty easily!
I have a 2020 Street Glide Special and already have the stage two with the HD torque cam that comes in the kit. I can just purchase the pistons and cylinders correct? Then it would essentially be the same thing. I already have a catless headpipe 4.5" slip ons and a high flow air cleaner. I have a Fuelpak 3 and Vance and Hines told me they have maps for the tune. Sounds pretty simple from where I am at now.
With the cam you have now you can upgrade your displacement and add some compression. They do use a little different cam for the stage 3 kits but with the SE cam it's not a whole lot of difference.
How about the trikes,?
When it comes to the trikes, a good aftermarket bolt in cam goes a long ways. You want as much torque with the trikes as you can get.
What's the best aftermarket stage 3 kit for 117 m8
Honestly you can save yourself a lot money and just do a cam swap to a Wood WM822XE. That will blow away any stage kit out there with your stock displacement at 117. It bolts right in too!
How about a stage 3 on a h o 103
I actually have you covered there, I have a 103 video for stage kits th-cam.com/video/71bgCSYkWj0/w-d-xo.html
What would a stage 3 look like with other top performing cams, like S&S and what I have, Woods 22xce? Can you do a video speaking to that?
I am on the schedule to get a 131 on my bike. But now I’m thinking about doing the 117 stage IV. I’m a little nervous about how thin the walls on the 131 are when I finally go aftermarket.
The 131 will tear your arms off when you crack that throttle, the torque is absolutely insane on those motors! You'll really enjoy it!
@@GixxerFoo you got it! It’s a blast and drives like a stock bike but with more power and a fantastic high-end surge.
Just got 2000 miles on my 128 se heads to se makes the best cillinders thay bore hone croshash and the cast the fins thats how Harley still covers the warranty . I like myn so far 👌✌️😎
Is there an in warranty way to put a 114 crank into a 107 to get that extra power.
I love the balance M8 engine, but ever since they released the 120S twin cam I’ve aspired to get an equivalent in an M8 with corresponding torque and 110 plus hp.
Suggestions? I wish the Electra glide standard had a 114 option.
The stage 3 107 to 114 kit from Harley is really an awesome setup for the 107. It still has the shorter stroke crank but you add the larger bore cylinders and a good set of cams. That setup produces just as much power as the stage 4 114 kit in the low and mid range. As far as warranty they don't have a crank swap option with any of the stage kits.
I have cvo 117 with 35000 miles on it. Would you take it to the 122 kits. What would I gain?
i.bought an 18 heritage with 107 screamin eagle stage 4.. has sc 515 cam . dynoed with power vision tuner, software...122.37 hp 120.25 torque.. it really doesn't feel that strong.. I think it needs a different cam..
That's really good numbers! M8's respond really well to cam swaps, you can get the power out of a M8 that the Screamin Eagle stage kits produce with just an aftermarket cam.
But can you get the tune with this upgrade?
So if someone sees where HD falls short and doesn’t care about the warranty what aftermarket kits would fellow riders suggest?
Fuel Moto has some really hot kits with Wood cams that will seriously lay down some power. Even a Wood WM8-22XE cam, which is bolt in by the way, will lay down just as much as the stage 3 kits in this video.
The 107-119 is only $100 more than the 107-114.
The entire crate motor stage four thing as labeled by Harley is a misnomer anyway. They keep calling it a 131 stage 4 but it's still 131 cubic inches and the heads are exactly as they came from the crate motor. So stage three and four never happened. It's a 131 with a camshaft and a tune. Lastly as we've seen all inmates stage kits should come with a new clutch because everyone who installs one has the clutch slip on the dyno on the first outing.
S&s who I love can go through all the stages end up with a stage 4 and never change the factory head pipe... Putting another header on is not in any of the stages when you're talking about a touring bike that has separate slip-ons and a separate header. They have a TH-cam video up showing the difference between all the stages and the end result still has a factory head pipe.
Harley's stage kits are really quite confusing and a lot of parts you normally wouldn't need. They are emissions compliant as well so that's where a lot of the extras come in. If emissions isn't a concern just a good aftermarket cam and nothing else will put you right up there with the stage kits.
What about the triglide
It’s been my experience that the V&H FP3 is not the ideal tuner for anything past a stage 1
I'm just on the fence whether to go with 114 to 122 or not, but with other cams. Currently SE Stage 2 torque cam with 102HP/162 Nm.
Moving to a 122 with some cams will really make some good power, sounds like you've got some good numbers already with just the cam in there.
@@GixxerFoo you reckon? It is barely 10% more and I am NOT happy with the figures. Have you noticed Nm? Not ft/lbs.
I have a 05 deluxe softail i need power in it to catch up to 107 road glides wich kit u recommend?
It's hard to go wrong with boring the cylinders to a 98 and putting in good bolt in cam th-cam.com/video/9wOurNkiMyk/w-d-xo.html
I love Harley's but they, re not out to to right. They rebuilt my trans in 68 sportster when I was 20 in 80,s they charged me 800. After telling me 500. An receipt said they charged me 8 dollars for one washer. I was so pissed had to walk to work for 6 months I ask them to buy another washer so I could have nice necklace have great day
Yeah I am not a fan of most dealers and their service departments. Fortunately my local dealer is the exception, they still do business the old fashioned way.
Hello GixxerFoo, I have a 2020 Road Glide and today I had the stage 3 119 kit installed at my local dealership, however, the dealership said that H-D still hasn't come out with the tune for it, the dealership called HD and they said they are still working on it because they say that the vin shows it to be a CA bike, but it never was in Cali, it was bought and in AZ and purchased in AZ. What say you about that, try a 122 tune or a 114 tune?
I am looking at it for my heritage is it a touring model or softail as Harley have just changed it in the 2022 line up
107 stock is all I need
Even stock they put down some good power for a cruiser.
@@GixxerFoo yup tons of power
In 2020 Parts/ Accessories book page 416 the Power Cam for 114 on both charts seems to show not only More Power But also Torque throughout the RPM ( The Yellow line ) ..Am I right in saying it would feel Faster Throughout Entire RPM ? And would the SE cams be Considered MILD compared to Others Pls ?
The M8 responds very well to cam shafts, and the SE cams aren't bad cams at all. They produce some big gains on the M8, but the SE cams are mild cams in comparison to the aftermarket. To be honest, a good aftermarket cam, exhaust and tune would run circles around a Screamin Eagle stage kit. If you're going with a Screamin Eagle cam the torque cam doesn't give up anything to power cam until the very top end, even there the loss is 1 or 2 horsepower.
@@GixxerFoo MUCH APPRECIATED..
@@paulhorvath9784 Not a problem, any time!
have you ever looked at custom frames ? as far as do they come with a "vin #" so you can register them , insurance and so forth. from what i have found one maker in canada does i think and Paughco does too i think. mainly for someone wanting to replace a frame from a salvaged bike or to give it a custom touch and still get tags and insurance for it without a too difficult time. i haven't found much in my research . wondered if you have or can find out more info. good vid
Justin, I can tell you from a builders standpoint, that each state is different. There's so many variables here that you alone need to do extensive research for your particular build. A example is that even if you buy a XYZ brand frame and it comes with a 17 digit
" number " , XYZ is NOT a Motor Vehicle Manufacturer, so you can't register a 2020 XYZ. Generally you get a M.S O. with a frame. That means, manufacturers statement of origin. It is NOT a title. 20 years ago things were easier, I stopped manufacturing my custom bikes when they needed to be certified by the E.P.A., and even then that certification was only good in 49 states, meaning NO California.
A lot of states have a A.P.S.T. title, which is a builders title, or Special Construction title. Yes, you can insure them most of the time, but they come with the stigma of home-made construction when you try and re-sell one day. Meaning, pennies on the dollar.
You can take my advice for what it's worth, but I tell you that I've been there, done that. Always check with YOUR country, and YOUR state as far as regulations. There's no cookie cutter answer to your question. Bottom line is the D.M.V. online, is the place to start. PRINT the information, because in person, talk to 4 D.M.V. workers and you'll get 4 different answers. I don't lie, nor will I sugarcoat anything, and I don't care if I hurt someone's feelings, I tell the TRUTH. Do YOUR homework, because the D.M.V. won't care if you tie up 5,10,15 thousand dollars and you can't get a title. Some states are near impossible. My state, requires a M.S.O. from the frame, engine, and trans, and proof of payment for the majority of the MAJOR components. Then you finish the bike, get a weight certificate, pay the sales tax, and you get a Home built/Constructors title. Good luck. SARGE.
@@t.s.racing ty man. the one place in canada said they give an mso . not sure in my state of MO. ill have to look online more cause the dmv is clueless on about any thing. except maybe hair and nails lmao
@@justin.s9783 you're welcome. Oh and if I remember correctly, HARLEY DAVIDSON only used the engine case numbers for title/registration up until 1969 or 70. But there again you need a original engine, with original paperwork. Reading your original post again, I wouldn't try and build a bike with a Canadian built frame. It would just add to the confusion and paperwork. PAUCHO makes a excellent frame. Of course this is just my humble opinion, all the best, SARGE.
Thank you for your support, we really appreciate it over here on the channel! I don't think I could of explained it better than Sarge, he's quite the bike builder and well versed!
Thank you for jumping in on this one! I couldn't of explained it in nearly as much detail other than contacting the frame manufacturer and trying to get a straight answer out of the local licensing agency!
How about the jugs on the 131 engine and kit vs after market? Are the jugs thicker and sleeves thicker beefier on aftermarket vs the 132 crate jugs/131 kit jugs?
To be honest they are likely all made at the same foundry, there's a big debate on quality of Harley vs. the aftermarket. Really depends who you talk to, but in my opinion if you're buying a big bore kit from say S&S, Zippers, or Fuel Moto you are likely to get a better quality product given Harley's history of cost cutting.
@@GixxerFoo I’m just talking 131 Harley kit BUT replacing the pistons with Carrillo 4.310 / 11:1 ones and the 64mm throttle body with an HPi 62mm throttle body and either a redshift 552 or 550 gear cam from S&S
@@GixxerFoo harley S&S zippers ect?
I don't know if it's just me but I don't feel too comfortable opening up a new engine, changing engine components and messing with it just to gain some power. It's all about making the eagle scream I guess.
With an M8 especially under warranty, you'll want to have your dealer do the work to maintain your factory warranty. Now if you bike's warranty has expired I wouldn't recommend a Screamin Eagle kit, you can get a lot more bang for your buck with the aftermarket.
@@GixxerFoo great advice. In my head the bike cost so much that I haven't spent on any mods. Only thing I added is an engine guard/highway bars. And I am really happy with how it looks and a bit of peace of mind while practicing low speed riding
@@GixxerFoo also, warranty expires in a week or so 😬
Those new ones aren't cheap at all, crash bars a solid investment! I've always said they can get you home if you drop the bike or have a crash. Keep the controls somewhat covered and hopefully prevent damage.
It’s just you
114 to 1: 22 with a different cam and tuner
That SE tuner with the catted head pipes must be weak
I got a 107 with 468 cam and dyno tuned (power vision).. 105hp 115tq
With the 122 kit, should I replace the oil pump?
Do you know if the freewheeler is considered a touring bike? I have been looking at a 2019 and would love to stage it out.
It's more related to the touring bikes, I believe it is based on the touring frame.
Do you need to bye the valve springs if you go from a 114 to 122, its not in the kit, and it is on the 107 to 114?
You wouldn't need valve springs on the 114 t o122, they use a less aggressive cam that doesn't need stiffer valve springs. They make up the difference in the less aggressive cam with the displacement. With the 107 to 114 kit they used a more aggressive cam to hit their target power the kit was designed for.
@@GixxerFoo ok thanks.
Can you do a video on 107 to 124 big bore
I've been working on a video for aftermarket kits on the M8's, the numbers can get pretty wild with the M8.
@@GixxerFoo right for sure love the video man very helpful!
i have a 2008 110 on my dyna, I have a 64mm throttle body on it. Does this mean its a stage 4 kit? its all screaming eagle parts.
It does come with the Stage 4 kit, it is also possible it could of been added all by itself. The only way to truly know would be to take a look at the cams in the bike and tear the top end down.
I have a 2017 road glide special. Currently stage 2 low end torque power. Are you saying that I will see a big HP jump from where I am currently at? Also will I need to change clutch brakes and suspension with this kit?
You won't need a clutch update with the SE kit, no changes to brakes or suspension either.
@@GixxerFoo how about the HP jump from stage2 SE
If you go from stock to stage 3 do you need to go full exhaust?
I only have slip ons now
Not necessarily, the slip ons will work just fine. You would gain more with a full exhaust on a touring bike however with the cat in the head pipe on the stock exhaust. Harley's numbers for their stage kits are advertised with the SE slip ons so even with aftermarket slip ons you'd be gaining at or slightly above the advertised numbers.
I am upgrading to stage 3 114 to 122 Road glide 2020 do I need to upgrade the breaking to 6 pots or bigger discs thanks