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I think there was a "past" in the TVA. Mobius just doesn't have a memory of a "past" because his memory has been wiped so often. They probably do it during the company picnic.
One thing I want to say about the time twister, it doesn’t really rewind you, it re/displaces you back to where you were. The characters experience it in present time, as we hear B-15 begging Loki to stop it, and no one forgets what happened right before they were put back. Just a thought I had.
I think the "there's no past in the TVA" to "they don't experience the flow of time that ages them or their surroundings" otherwise everything would be happening all at once , multiple versions of Mobius doing multiple things at the same time ...much like how the dampen magic they dampened the ravages of time.
So happy that you acknowledged the nexus event between Loki and Sylvie. Since I watched it, I’ve been wondering what nexus event where they referencing, because literally nothing happened in that scene. I haven’t heard any channels talk about it in the way you did, great analysis and I think you’re completely right.
Thanks...yeah, I've always thought that Loki and Sylvie's nexus event was HWR's doing and not a true nexus event, so I was glad to slip that into this video. Really appreciate you watching the vid and sharing your feedback!
My theory on the “there is no past in the TVA”: Time moves normally in the TVA, but He Who Remains used “time tech” on each “employee” to kinda freeze them all at their current ages (think Time Twister or time moving through Scott Lang) and periodically reset everyone’s minds (must have a telepath on staff, or somehow given himself telepathy?).
Lie #4 hits different when you think about how we were presented with all the different iterations of Scott Lang in Quantumania. Ideally more versions of yourself would be a good thing but if your mind can’t handle that concept you’d want to eliminate as many versions of yourself as possible to get to your goal. This is how he “won” over Kang. Mental stability. Accepting who he is. Knowing what he’s fighting for. We’ve yet to get any real motivation for Kang except control, but does he have self control? Interesting.
Excellent commentary...you nailed it...often when someone wants control, they ultimately end up falling victim of their own lack of self-control. Well said!
Yet another video that I didn't realize I needed! I remember being really confused the very first time I watched the season 1 finale and heard HWR explain a bunch of stuff that contradicted everything I thought was true about the TVA and sacred timeline and all that other Miss Minutes propaganda. Everything makes so much more sense when broken down into the what all the lies were and what's actually true. Thanks for this great video!
5:42 I think wiping memories works exactly like deleting data from any ssd or etc. Bits of information are not nullified, they are just marked as available for saving new information. But until new information is saved we still have all this data and still everyone rightly call this process as "deleting" (wiping). So the same with minds: their memory was wiped, but someone who can look inside minds can still gather their lost memories as Sylvie did
THANK YOU! I knew you would be the one to discuss these pieces of detail, like the Lamentis-1 nexus event being the duo's death because everything was planned by HWR, as he said. Also the fact that the whole Miss Minutes introductory video being complete and utter BS 😂 It was so satisfying hearing someone finally address these lies.
Irk? Yeah, it was fascinating revisiting all the lines from the entire series and finding all the untruths along the way. Such a great series. So well written and so much fun to unpack after each episode!
I won't watch breakdown/theory videos because I don't want to get spoiled, but I love these different type of videos about timelines and everything. And this one is really unique and interesting.
Thanks...so glad you enjoyed it. I loved putting the vid together, as it really helps me process all of the information in an organized fashion. The Loki shows have been so good at planting all these mysteries and then slowly unraveling them. Such a great series!
I feel like with all the high concept ideas in Loki, it deserves more than one series of only six episodes every few years but at the same time if there was more I’d fear a decrease in quality
Right...that's the real dilemma...That said, I'm hopeful that the changes in the new agreements with the writers will allow for more quality projects and thus we'll have less of a fear regarding the quality dropping. Fingers crossed!
Our Savior (LOKI) is here! There's something special about this TV show and you can see the passion across the board; both behind and in front of the camera. Episode 1 in and I'm so invested in the multiverse concepts while feeing the threat that is Kang. I hope we ride that sense urgency going forward past this TV show. great video my man. 😘
I agree...Loki is soooooo good. And I do suspect we'll see the sense of urgency spreading beyond the show after this season ends. It's all starting to come together, which is so exciting!
@@AbitofEverything4U Thats what i want man. If the rumors are true n we ending the season with a Deadpool cameo to prep for DP3 then that would be so dope. I honestly want storylines to start actually crossing over...teams forming with common threats...i mean we are already 2 phases in. So i hope thats the case after this season. To Start having the TVA's minute men prune guys in the main timeline or branches. Those villains from no way home shd be arrested n pruned for crossing over or Dr Strange put on the stand hahaha Can't wait for episode 2 though cheeii. P.S. i appreciate it when u take time to respond n engage with ur subscribers...makes u unique. Keep it up
I do wonder, if the Sacred Timeline consists of multiple branches that are so different, that they did produce wildly different Lokis... Why everytime the characters go to the timeline, regardless whether it's the main sacred timeline or one of the branches, everything looks exactly like in "our" timeline?
Great question. I did a separate video in Loki’s variants, if you are interested, but the main reason for the difference in his variants seems to be that the universe wanted to break free from the loom and so it created chaos through the Loki’s. That resulted in a female Loki and an alligator Loki, etc.
If the script He Who Remains had for Loki and Sylvie prescribed that they would be able to go to the Void and reach his citadel, then the very fact that they were about to die on Lamentis would be what caused the nexus event. Because them dying would deviate from the flow of the Sacred Timeline. It didn't matter whether the two Loki variants fell in love. What mattered was that they were going to be killed in a few seconds, which wasn't supposed to happen.
Thank you for this breakdown! I don't know why it didn't click for me until now that the Sacred Timeline was "isolated" from all others, rather than the only timeline left out of all multiverses. It makes Immortus' line at the end of Quantumania make more sense now: "they're beginning to touch the multiverse" ... because they've finally broken free of HWR.
Right! Yeah, the sacred timeline being isolated from the other timelines (rather than the other timelines being outright destroyed) does indeed make that line from Quantumania make more sense. And I think the "exiled one" that they refer to is He Who Remains, because he "exiled" himself. I suspect they might not even be aware that the Kang in the Quantum Realm died, as he really didn't even matter to them. Love how everything is coming together!
What I think mobius meant by time runs differently in the tva, is that no branches can be created in the tva, that's why loki can effect the past and see his effect in the present & mobius writing "skin" and loki seeing his writing in the future. If loki had to go to a timeline and change things that would create a branch timeline, which shows that the tva is unique when it comes to time.
Interesting...okay, that does make some sense. If you can't branch, then you end up with butterfly effect by default. Great theory...I love it. Thanks for sharing that!
Very nice breakdown! Here after watching ep 2 and for sure we're learning more and more of the TVA (and things changing like the Butterfly Effect) as each new episode releases. Didn't think about He Who Remains isolating the timeline as him hiding, but when you put it like that, yeah, he really is just hiding from the other Kangs. It makes his achievements sound a lot less impressive, since before it seemed like he won the Multiversal War, but in reality, he was just delaying it until he died and someone else would have his problem on their plate. Also it's crazy to me that the closed captions are different than the transcript. It happened again in ep 2 when Loki and Sylvie had their talk outside, where it cut off a bit of dialogue. Don't know what's going on there, but been enjoying the season and can't wait for more
Yeah, it is pretty wild to think of HWR as hiding rather than winning. But it does really explain him stressing the part about "winning" the war, like he was almost trying to convince himself of it. And yeah, that closed captioning is weird. Not sure how they can manage to mess that up. I assumed someone did a rewatch to verify it was accurate, but perhaps not?
Loki is the next Tony Stark of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, the reason I say this, is because both of them during the start of the Infinity Saga & Multiverse Saga were captured while in the desert, then saw the consequences of their past actions, then they are both have trauma about a future threat coming, so that means during Avengers Secret Wars, Loki will sacrifice himself to defeat Kang the Conqueror, just like Tony Stark said, "And I am Iron Man", and Thanos said, "I am inevitable."
This video is crazy investigative it's insane how much you internalize every little detail and manage to organize it out with bullet points for each idea you have, I'm wondering how the nixing of majors is going to throw a major boot into the theme they had going with the kang plot and how they'll revise it and the direction they'll take, seems like the entire ten year plan has to be washed and redirected.. such a convoluted position they've created for themselves
Thanks so much for the positive feedback on the vid. Really appreciate it! Regarding the Kang storyline, I suspect that with the forced down time that resulted by the writer's strike (man that was painful!), it has allowed Feige and crew to decide on the best path forward to keep the overall storyline intact, but also to pivot as necessary away from Kang and perhaps bring in a new big bad (would love to see Dr. Doom) that will make the entire story still lead to a satisfying conclusion. Fingers crossed!
Im a fairly new sub. Just discovered your channel within the last month or so. I enjoy how much different your videos are from the norm. Once a TH-camr comes out with a video, you usually find the same topic on countless other MCU TH-camrs. You come up with your own original extremely interesting topics. Something I want to point out to you to see what you think. At 26:46 of your video there's a scene between Renslayer and Sylvie with two pictures on the wall behind them. The one on the right caught my eyes, could that be Loki standing in front of the other two TVA workers?
Thanks for the kind words and positive feedback on the vids. I agree, I try to do something unique with the content as I really like to lay everything out and investigate it in an orderly manner as my mind works so much better that way. As for the picture, yeah, I've always wondered about that. I'd be totally down for your theory about Loki to be true. Thx for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
My theory is this - a Nexus event is anything that would cause the formation of the fantastic four. In the comics, Kang is a descendant of Reed Richards. If the fantastic four are never formed, reed never meets Sue, and a new kang is never born from their bloodline. I think this is why the fantastic four are nowhere to be found in the sacred timeline. I think this might play into the fantastic four movie whenever it releases
@@BlackHedgehog I think Reed can exist - I just don't think the Fantastic Four can be formed, hence why I think the foundation of the Fantastic Four hasn't yet taken place/been shown in any of the sacred timeline
Right...the end result HWR is protecting against is a new Kang, but I do agree that Reed is supposed to be an ancestor of Kang, so it would stand to reason that any timeline with a Reed Richards would therefore result in a Kang. Nice call!
@@BlackHedgehog I think the key is that if they stick to the comics, then Reed is an ancestor of Kang, so a Reed likely means a Kang later in the 31st century. But I agree, it's certainly possible to have a Reed w/o it leading to a Kang, per se.
It's crazy just how in control He Who Remains was the entire time. Really the only thing he couldn't control was Sylvie's choice to kill him, and now we have the Kang Council to deal with. Loki never even fought HWR and still he's probably one of the most intimidating antagonists in the MCU with his presence alone.
Well said...yeah, He Who Remains was such a fascinating character. He made things sound truly terrifying with his warnings of what was to come after his death. I love the Loki series and I think by the end of this season, things will be perfectly set up for the rest of the multiverse saga!
Exactly! I totally agree...there simply had to be a multiverse while HWR was alive and managing the sacred timeline. It was a more controlled multiverse, vs. the chaos being unleashed after his death...but there was always a multiverse even during the sacred timeline. Well said!
Well when HWR died it restored the multiverse as it was before the war. And Doctor Strange 2 takes place after this. But anyway before HWR died there was a few timelines left and were being together called the sacred timeline. If you look at it there is multiple strings of different color which each string represent 1 universe.
@@ericleclerc3147Well said...yes, it sure seemed like there were multiple timelines in the sacred timeline images that we saw from the start. As for MoM, I read that earlier comment too quickly and thought it was referring to the first Dr. Strange. In that first film, the Ancient One spoke about the multiverse, so it seems there was indeed a multiverse prior to HWR death. It was just very controlled and had no Kangs in it.
I don’t think He Who Remains was specifically targeting any other Lokies aside from our Loki and Sylvie. I suspect he was pruning so many so that there would be an abundance of them at the end of time, that he was extra strict. However, it always struck me as odd how many Lokies there were, but how no Wandas, Stranges, or any other superheroes (who we know had specific roles on the timeline) were there; surely they’d be able to evade Alioth just as easily. I also like that the Lokies just had their lives taken from them for failing to become their role, not that they were individually chosen, I think it’s more impactful that way. To get really nerdy, I think Kang decides that he should prune Lokies for the sacred timeline and for other uses outside of it, sets up their nexus event trigger to be really sensitive about what a Loki should be (a lonely failure), and to also work even if it won’t change the timeline that significantly, or at all. Then I think he imagines two rogue Lokies will fall in love and eventually make their way to the end of time, aided by other pruned Lokis that manage to stop being lonely, self-absorbed failures. Something like that anyway. I don’t know if it 100% works, but I like the idea.
Great feedback! Yeah, it is so wild that there were so many Loki's in the void. But the reason I think that the Loki's were pruned specifically is because Old Loki was vital in allowing our Loki and Sylvie to reach HWR. So if Old Loki hasn't been there, they would have failed in their mission and since HWR paved every step of the way for them, it seems Old Loki was pruned specifically. But just my theory on that. Anyway, really appreciate you watching the vid and sharing your thoughts and theories. Loved reading it all!
That's great to hear...yeah, I have really enjoyed the way Season 2 has answered lots of questions from season 1 and has given us alot of new questions to consider for this season. Such a great series!
I like how in season 1 the two lokis are legit the glue between the story A and B and the amalgamation of both . The agents were watching our Loki and the Hunters were tracking Sylvie . Loki and Sylvie come together and are brought to the tva . After discovering secrets of the TVA their curiosity and determination led them to the end of time where they discover everything that happened was scripted . Now in season 2 the story is still dependent on Loki and Sylvia’s independent journeys and will surely repeat season 1 regarding the two coming together by the end .
Good analysis...I agree, both Loki's played a key role in the first season and even though they are separated at the beginning of this season, I suspect their paths crossing will once again be a key point for season 2. It's very poetic!
I enjoy this video so much! My mind is going to explode with all this theories and all this questions, I can't wait for tomorrow episode and of course your breakdown! Thank you 😊
Wow, thanks so much for the positive feedback on the vids. Yeah, it's so much fun watching Loki and trying to figure it all out. Such a great series. Can't wait for the next episode to drop soon!
Fantastic breakdown! I truly enjoy your theories. I got one if you're interested. In analyzing all the lies told (or repeated) by the TVA,I started to wonder how much of what He Who Remains says can be taken as fact. It felt like "okay here we are. The man behind the curtain. Now we're getting truth." What if not??? Here's what I mean: if we accept as truth that he paved the road (all the roads that lead to him) and that from that point, he does not know what will happen: will they take over the TVA or burn it down? And he makes clear what the consequences of that will be "the infinite amount of me". What if that was a lie? What if he knew what Sylvie would do (which is why he made sure she was here)? If time is a circle and loops back around, he knew her actions from the last iteration...and counted on them. Why? Because he knew HE was on one or more other strands and would resurface...perhaps as the Quantumania Kang or Victor Timely (or both) but he would have achieved his goal first. That goal being that the Council of Kangs would detect his death!!! Now they're not looking for him. And now he can do what needs doing to win this new multiversal war. Its wobbly wobbly timey wimey for sure but I gotta admit the more I think about it, the more it's growing on me. He has created 2 exits from the stage, here and in the Quantum Realm to throw off everyone. Perhaps he thinks the Council will eventually fall to fighting among themselves in the Battle World weakening each other and then he plans to resurface and conquer all. In the comics, this role was Doctor Doom and when he created Battle World out of remants of all the destroyed universes, he appointed Barons to rule them. They could do whatever they wanted but no one could cross from one realm to another without his permission and no one could question his dogma. Maybe in Secret Wars the movie, the other Kangs will be functioning as the Barons and this Kang has usurped them. Food for thought!
Great theories! I agree, the thing I am questioning the most is what the "threshold" was that was indicated by thunder clap and HWR no longer knowing what was going to happen. I think that's a key moment and that they haven't revealed the full answer to us yet. Perhaps that will explain what was so different about that particular journey around the circle of time. I think your theory has alot of merit as I have to wonder if the multiversal war and the TVA and HWR, etc are all part of a giant closed loop that keeps repeating itself. Would be really wild if they went that direction for sure. Learning which strand of time HWR originated on will be a huge reveal when we finally find out. Thanks for watching the vid and sharing your theories. Really appreciate it!
The most interesting thing I find here in regards to free will and the rules behind pruning, is when Mobius says, basically, that they've pruned more Lokis than anything else. Why Loki? It seems at first just to speak to the chaotic nature of the character. But what if it's not? What if the reason that Kang keeps pruning Lokis is because they just deviated from the road he paved? All those pruned Lokis weren't to pave the way for this one special Loki, with Classic Loki being pruned so he could give his wisdom and Kid Loki being pruned so he could help our Special Loki. They were rejects. There were countless Lokis who didn't fall into the steps Kang wanted because of their free will, and so they were pruned. Only these two Lokis, our Loki and our Sylvie, were ones who happened to walk the right path to lead themselves to Kang. When you have infinite timelines, infinite Lokis, you have infinite chances to get one who does everything just right to both make his way to you _and_ be willing to listen _and_ be willing to replace you. I would be willing to bet He Who Remains has given that same speech to dozens of Lokis dozens of times. That's why he knows how it's going to go. That's why when Sylvie stabs him it's, "See you soon." He's just going to see another Lokis in another timeline and do the speech over again. Until the infinite Loki dice finally rolls on the correct steps to what he wants. It's not him paving the road. It's this one Loki out of infinite Lokis happening to hit all the right steps to take him down the road. The ones that don't are pruned. If this is what you were trying to say and I'm just repeating you in different words, forgive me. I'm not even sure I'm explaining myself well. 😅
Good theories. I do agree, Loki is the god of mischief, so he is inherently going to go down the path no one wants him to follow. It's in his nature. I do think, though, that HWR did whatever was necessary to pave the path for Loki and Sylvie to find him. He told them that was the case and it seems to make sense. So whether all the pruned Lokis were there just to get our Loki to find HWR is certainly a valid question...but the reason I mentioned Old Loki was he was vital to helping Loki and Sylvie get past Alioth. If he wasn't there, they would have failed. So in some sense, a few of the Lokis were probably part of the path HWR paved. But that's just my guess. I do like your point that there's something about a Loki that leads them down the path no one wanted them to follow!
@@AbitofEverything4U Yeah, i do agree Kang created a road and tried to get _a_ Loki (or a pair of Lokis) to follow it, but it didn't have to be these specific two Lokis. It could have been any Loki, or any two Lokis, as long as they followed his path. Any Loki who deviated from that path got pruned, and that's why the TVA has pruned so many Lokis. There's nothing particularly special to Kang about this Loki, our Loki. He just was one of the ones who happened to follow the path and happened to get to the end of it. I see it less like a rigid, pre-planned path and more like a game of roulette. You're hoping it lands on your number, but when you have infinite spins and the ability to throw out any spin that doesn't hit? You're always going to win. And once you've won, you have the ability to see the steps that had to happen to get you there. And they're bound to happen again, in an infinite amount of chances.
Yeah, ig I can see that as a possibility. I was just considering that he knew every last word they would say and every last move they would make (enabling him to dodge out of the way in that finale). So it seemed more likely to me that he paved the road intentionally, versus randomly...but you do raise an interesting point. Thx for sharing that alternate viewpoint to give me more to consider. Really appreciate it!
I think you may be right about five Kang variants previously running the TVA, but I don't think that's confirmed by the premiere. This could easily just be an artistic choice. Note that everywhere a Kang statue appears, there's only one of them. This relief is the only place that five are depicted, and even when he uncovers the relief, Loki refers to it as one person, so these side views may simply be alternate views of the same person like the Vitruvian Man drawings. After all, He Who Remains presumably created the TVA to end the multiversal war, and we know Ravonna was on his team for that, but her face doesn't appear on the relief. So this could easily just be an artistic representation of one guy rather than five guys. I don't think the branches are happening because HWR is dead exactly. They're happening because the TVA has rebelled and are refusing to prune the branches that they normally would. If HWR was still alive he could prune them himself, take control of the TVA, wipe their minds to get them to continue pruning, or whatever. So his death allows the timeline to branch massively but it isn't the direct cause of the branching. Completely agreed that the "Nexus event" on Lamentis was a fabrication of HWR's in order to put Loki and Sylvie where they need to be. Even if you create a Nexus event or go against what HWR wants, you still have free will. It's just that the results of you exercising your free will might cause your universe to be erased. Of course that opens up the philosophical debates about whether it still counts as free will since it is literally free will but in effect your free will doesn't matter... So I guess it ultimately depends on what you're arguing. Are you arguing literally or pragmatically? Even in a true one timeline scenario, if someone knows what choice you're going to make and therefore that is what your choice is going to be, you still made the choice. It's just that if someone were to step outside of time they would know your choice before you do. It doesn't make it not a choice though.
Great feedback! Loved reading it all. On the multiple faces on the wall, I definitely agree that it doesn't confirm there was more than one person ruling the TVA...but if you add in the three statues in the citadel, along with the broken one, it does seem there were multiple rulers at one point. But it's certainly a mystery left unsolved for now. I suspect the branches are pruning for the reason you said. Mobius and Hunter B-20 told the TVA to stop pruning, which was confirmed in the season 2 premier. So HWR was warning them to make up their mind quickly, as the branches were forming. And good point about free will. I guess to me, free will means you can make a decision and not immediately have your timeline pruned after making it...but you are right...it was still a free will choice. So many interesting philosophical issues brought up by the show. Love this series so much!
Thanks so much! I had alot of fun putting that vid together. Reviewing all the transcripts was a fascinating exercise. Really appreciate you watching and sharing your feedback!
The way I see it, a timeline is a sequence of event that everyone inside the sacred timeline must follow,there are many universes inside the sacred timeline but the 1 thing they have in common is that they all lead to him becoming he who remains and if they diverge they creat a nexus event meaning they might create a new timeline that does not end with he who remains winning
Lie 6 can be explained two ways: 1) Although He Who Remains was really adamant that he 'ended' the multiverse war, he didn't do that at all. The multiverse war continued to rage in every other universe except his (the so-called Sacred Timeline), which he isolated from the rest and made sure that no one got in. Which makes me wonder though, how could he prevent people from other universes entering his universe? I pressume that you can cross from one universe to another if their branches grow in a way that they touch each other? And if you prune your universe's branches (like He Who Remains did), you will never reach another universe. But somehow I doubt that's the way the Kangs used, because waiting for the branches to naturally grow the way you want them to, so that you can visit another universe, would be a real pain in the ass. So there must be a way to cross universes even if they aren't touching. And how can you protect yourself from that? You won't go into other people's universes, fine - but what if other people go into yours? 2) The Sacred Timeline is actually the whole multiverse (not just one universe with multiple branches) woven together. (As explicitly said by Miss Minutes - who is a lying liar who lies, but still...) What we think are branches or smaller timelines within the Sacred Timeline are actually individual universes crammed together. Which He Who Remains somehow forced to follow the same flow of time, so that the same events are happening in each separate universe, only they're so to say "played by different actors". Which would explain why every Loki we saw in the Void is so different - each one is from a different universe. There would be more questions though. Like: why do all the Kangs look so different if they're from different universes, while the opposite is true for the Loki variants? Or, why every timeline the TVA agents ever visited looked exactly like our well-known MCU timeline? Where are the weird universes we saw in the last Doctor Strange movie?
I think the answer to your question is #1 and that the loom is what protects the sacred timeline from the rest of the multiverse. As long as the sacred timeline is encased in the loom, no other universe’s branches will cross over.
Thanks! Yeah, it sure helps me as well to lay things out like this. Loki is a complex story, but they have kept it very consistent and slowly unpacked the mystery as we have gone along. Really do love the show!
Man I was waiting for you to drop sone knowledge, thank you bro I hope this will help me understand Loki true angle outside of just the tva this season
Hope it's helpful...it sure helped me to lay it all out in the video. My mind works better when I set things out in an orderly fashion and take them one at a time. Thanks for watching!
Thanks! Yeah, that explanation works so much better for me. Seems to tie in well with the overall theme behind why HWR was pruning certain nexus events and not others.
7:24 Why is it that he who remains death caused a bunch of new branches to be created? I believed that the branches were created by mobius and B-15 ordering the TVA to stop pruning, as they alluded to in season 2 episode 1
Agreed...I think that's the case as well. I don't think I mentioned it in this particular vid, but I think you are 100% correct on why the new branches were created!
What I'm still unclear on is the "We just passed the threshold..." event in Season 1, Episode 6. -- Even though HWR knows what it is (as far as calling it 'crossing the threshold') he still seems to react with uncertainty and surprise at it occuring as if it was completely unexpected. -- What I'm not clear on is what caused it? Whether it was caused by enchanting Alioth, or if something else caused it?
Yeah, that is a huge mystery to me at this point. I really hope they do explain that. It's possible that it was a pre-planned event where HWR shut down the TVA software at that moment, causing the uncontrolled branching to start. But that doesn't explain why he was surprised. Hopefully that answer is coming in season 2!
I just double-checked S1E3 Lamentis for the part where Sylvie tells Loki that hunter C-20’s margarita memory was “from hundred of years prior”. I was hoping there was a more specific number mentioned somewhere, to better relatively place the past TVA scenes in this episode, or even the formation of the TVA, assuming HWR “recruited” all the workers pretty much in one go (in TVA timeline, obviously they come from a range of times from sacred timeline, although all SEEM to be from roughly late 20th century, perhaps because they’d be the ones most comfortable with operating Kang/OB’s TVA tech). I guess we can glean from this that it was less than ~1000 years ago, but more than 400, assuming C-20 started around the same time as B-15 and Mobius.
I think OB’s line “Wow, that makes perfect sense! There’s no flaw in that logic” when he and Mobius realize the butterfly effect is happening in real-time is _definitely_ (especially with how KHQ delivered it) a callback to the Endgame scene where Hulk confusingly (for comedic effect) explains branching timelines and why killing baby Thanos wouldn’t work. They’re meta-making fun of themselves for Hulk and Nebula making fun of Scott and Rhodey for not knowing that BTTF is “obviously” not how time travel works, because that’s exactly how it’s working here 😂
Yes, I think your ranges for the timetable of the TVA's creation make sense....I'll be anxious to see if they give us specifics on it as the season progresses...especially that 2321 date being thrown in there. And I agree that OB's statement about no flaw in the logic may well be referring to the Hulk and the time travel discussion in Endgame. If so, that's a very clever callback!
It makes total sense that the sacred timeline is actually more than one timeline, if you think about it this way: There are infinite timelines where you're waking up in your bed at 8:03 and another at 8:06 and there's no real difference to the bigger picture. There are infinite timelines with teeny-tiny changes that are still fine up to a certain threshold. But this makes less sense, if you turn that statement around. Because if there are infinite timelines with tiny changes, then there are infinite timelines where Loki escaped from New York with the tesseract. So why is there only one Loki that got captured by the TVA that we're observing in the series? My head is starting to hurt trying to makes sense of all that time travel stuff, but it's always so interesting
Yeah, great point. If you consider the infinite number of different possibilities, it means there infinite different timelines. So the idea that the TVA could prune the majority of them, leaving only a few to be wound back into the loom, is hard to conceive. I think the concept of Loki is cool, but I agree, it doesn't seem possible to think there are enough TVA members to prune all those branches. But just letting that point go for moment, and rolling with the story at hand, it does help explain why the loom is unable to contain all the new branches and why I think they ultimately must shut it down or it will keep exploding.
Remember He who remains never ended the multiversal war, he only isolated the 616 universe timeline. OB then said the temporal loom weaves raw time into strings of timelines woven together to form the sacred timeline. I believe Kang used the temporal loom to shape the 616 universe into the sacred timeline with the same tech used in creating the probability storm in antman quantumania.
"There has to be time, or you can't rewind" You could actually have a reverse process working forward in time (even in a reality where Presentism is true, meaning only one self-transformative moment exists physically). Basically, imagine playing a tape backwards (which happens forward in time). The assumption being, you have to be able to tap into something that controls or remembers how things evolved in time, so that you can reverse it. Also, arguably, in the series only bodies of people subjected to 'time twisters' were reversed while their minds worked forward (and thus registered that their bodies have been reversed).
Interesting theory...if it does turn out that there was no true time in the TVA before HWR died, then your theory for how the time twisters could work in that environment makes alot of sense. Thanks for sharing that idea. Really appreciate it!
I think it's weird that the closed captioning doesn't catch all of the words they said. I've noticed that a lot and not just in episode 1 but in the last season too. Interesting video.
I agree...you would think that the close captioning would be entered manually, rather than auto-generated, as the auto-generated method always seems to produce errors.
About lie #8, I think there was always a past, absolutely. If there is literally NO time flowing, nothing can ever function. There would be no cause and effect, no relationship between events. The key to understand this paradox, I think, is to notice that what Mobius really said is not "there is no past AT the TVA", but rather "there is no past TVA". He's not saying that within the TVA time does not flow. He's saying that there is no other version of the TVA other than the current one and never has been. Sure, time keeps flowing, but the TVA itself does not change. Even after who knows how many centuries ago, it still has the same people, working in the same building, doing the same job, with the same rules, etc. But then Loki starts claiming that he's been to a TVA in which there's a giant statue of Kang instead of the Time Keepers, where people don't recognize him (remember: in Season 1 Mobius already knew who Loki was even before he was pruned!), where the War Room looks totally different, etc, and he claims that all of that is actually in their own past. That's why, I believe, Mobius was so surprised, because he was told that there ever was no other version of the TVA, other than the one that he knew.
I really think they should get the people who wrote this show to write Kang Dynasty & Secret Wars. I feel as if they’re setting it up anyway and they have a cohesive vision for the multiverse/ time travel. Kang needs to make sense.
I agree...the writers of Loki are doing a fantastic job and I hope they are helping with both Kang Dynasty & Secret Wars. Even if they aren't the head writers, they need to at least be on the writing team for sure!
Something I just realized: Loki is the God of Lies, so it makes sense that he'd see through (or at least notice) all the lies around him. Also if you consider He Who Remains himself to be the "Time Keeper" then 1 and 2 aren't technically lies, because he was in charge and he did create the workforce by capturing and brainwashing variants. We never did find out how Dox knew about the End of Time, though.
Excellent points! Yeah, in some regards the "lies" for #1 and #2 are more about how Miss Minutes was sharing things that HWR was actually doing, but just explaining it in a misleading way. And yeah that's a great point about Dox. ig we have to assume that she had info that others didn't have, due to her high-ranking position. But I agree, I'd love to know more about how she got that info!
That's why I like the loki series so much😂The first season was more of like the development of Loki as a character the TVA was somewhat of an enigma to us but this season we dive deeper learning about the TVA❤
Well said...yeah, that's what is making this second season feel so different...we're learning the truth behind all of the mysteries that the first season set up!
The Nexus events of Lokis and Sylvie too, could have been actual Nexus events (or some might have been while others were faked). HWR could use some of the already pruned people out of convenience.
Good point...yes, it could be a fake nexus event or a real one, but either way it was all manufactured to bring Loki and Sylvie to him in the end. And I agree, some of the others could have just fallen into his plan after they were pruned out of convenience. Either way, he laid all the steps out perfectly!
Doesn’t this seem like a Wandavision? Folks have some type of memory loss. Also since we’re talking about the total mcu… isn’t that what the kree did to captain marvel at first ?? Temporarily wipe her memory or confuse It … hope I’m making sense or you get the gist
Good point...yes, in a way this is like WandaVision and Captain Marvel. What's so fascinating about this show, however, is how we were told so many lies in that first episode and how even at the end of Season 1, it was still hard to unpack the truth from the lies. This show was so effective in tricking us along the way. Really an impressive feat of writing!
Ikr? Can you believe that? How did I miss that the first time I did the vid on isolating the timeline? It was so helpful to read all the transcripts and really look for all the clues that way. That line is sooooo perfect!
Wow amazing video there's quite a bit I want to bring up too. For lie 1, it totally isn't the timekeepers, but I'm not convinced that the Kang Council ran the TVA. Now this makes things really confusing but I think it was just he who remains who ran it because the TVA seems like either the means to end the universal war, in which case why work with the Kang Council, or the TVAs creation took place shortly after in which case he couldn't have worked with them. I think this was a case of them using a lot of different images of Johnathan Majors for He Who Remains on the wall, the same way if we saw a mural of a bunch of Benedict Cumberbatches face we'd assume its his variants too, but I think that was just an artistic choice, that doesn't mean its the Kang Council. Now they didn't make that very clear because every Kang looks like Johnathan Majors but I think its important to note that they all look completely identical, not a single change between them, whereas almost every member of the Kang Council looks slightly different. Just my 2 cents on the matter. Also for Lie 8, I think the inconsistencies there just boil down to how impossible it is to convey that idea on screen. For example if you take a single step in the TVA then you must've taken a previous step to get there, so for them to properly convey having no passage of time what nobody can move now? It's just impossible to show on screen without contradicting itself. I think we just have to look past the previous events and stuff like the lunch times as eh time works weird there. Because ultimately I do think that the TVA didn't used to have a past and now it does. As for the Time Twister, yeah thats a pretty big mess up there, I don't know how exactly that works but I think maybe it actually flows time through the person rather then going back in time to the TVA, like how time was flowed through Ant-Man to age him up and down, thats what I'm going to go with. Lie 9 is definitely a big moral question here thats definitely going to be explored all season but I think it's important to at least mention the possible truth to what Kang says. They're stopping more Kangs and more multiversal wars, is it worth killing trillions to save hundreds of trillions across the multiverse? not sure there's a right answer but worth mentioning. Lie 10 actually leads into my own theory/question that I'm starting to wonder is What actually creates a branch? We know that the TVA only detects branches that create other Kangs, and we know that taking away the infinity stones from the past in Endgame creates a branch, as well as making major decisions in life can create branches like in What If? This made it pretty clear to me that any decision you make creates a branching reality or even traveling back in time at all immediately makes a branch. Idk If that was ever said anywhere but that was my presumption. But the new video on the Butterfly Effect on Marvel Studios' TH-cam page seems to question that basically saying if we can fix it, then it doesn't count. But this makes me question with something like the grandfather paradox, if you go back in time and kill your grandfather but the TVA comes in and uses a defibrillator to revive him, does that not create a branch now? Loki Season 2 seems to be questioning this too with going back and seeing OB not making a branch at least seemingly. This could also fix the Captain America Endgame issue, he just undid the stones being gone so it doesn't count and him being there doesn't make a branch. Not sure that I'm the biggest fan because it kinda leaves things more up in the air but seems to be their direction. So I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on that. Final thing, and I promise I'm just messing with you, you make great content and I really love your videos this is in no means a real complaint but dude you did it again 30:35 end of season 6? You gotta be living in 2030 or something lol
First off...ugh! How did I say season 6 again. And this time I didn't even notice it on the review of the vid. The last time I noticed it and was like, "eh, not worth fixing". This time I didn't even notice it. Maybe I'm dreamwalking in a universe where Loki is already on season 6? For Lie #1, I agree, we know it's a lie, but it's hard to know what the actual truth is at this point. That one will be a fun one to keep track of as the season progresses. For Lie #8, I like your idea of how the time twister could work even if there is no concept of a past while HWR was alive...ala the Scott Lang passing time thru the person idea. Will be very interesting if they explain how there was no concept of "the past" before HWR died, and now there is. For Lie #9, I think this moral dilemma will be fascinating to follow as the multiverse saga progresses. It was a big dilemma during the 2015 Secret Wars Hickman run as well. For Lie #10, I'm not sure whether to put any faith in anything Miss Minutes says, so I took that butterfly video as a fun little joke myself. I think Marvel made it to bring up the concept, but also to have some fun with it. But I do agree with all of your reasons for a branch being created (i.e. time travel, removing a stone, and unique decisions...ala "What If"). I'm not sure what happens if you travel back in time and kill your grandpa but then the TVA tries to fix it. I am wondering how much they will use the butterfly effect in the main universes like 616, as I suspect you have to branch if you time travel in the main universes, as that travel is via the quantum realm. I'm starting to wonder if the butterfly effect only happens in the TVA now that HWR has died. So I don't know if the TVA can actually correct a butterfly effect issue or if Miss Minutes was messing with us in that vid. I tend to think they can't fix a butterfly effect, but I'll be anxious to see where the series goes from here. Great feedback as always!
What’s really funny about free will, not just in Loki, but in the MCU as a whole is ironic. Because they’re all fighting for free will in the TVA, then you have She-Hulk who Canonized K.E.V.I.N. into the equation, making him the spinner of the storyline, or even “timeline”, of events. So in the MCU’s Reality, the only ones that have TRUE free will are characters that can break the fourth wall. So far just She-Hulk and Deadpool in a sense. Connecting this argument to Deadpool 3 coming out featuring…? The TVA.
what he who remains did was he shaped and spilts the 616 universe, histories into different strings that formed the sacred timeline that's why when the avengers travelled back in time in endgame, there was no butterfly effect instead a new probability formed from that one string of woven sacred timeline where history played out differently. I think he who remains prunes any timeline that branches beyond the temporal loom.
I definitely agree that the Time Heist wasn't butterfly effect and instead created new branches in the loom. But I don't think that branches can extend beyond the loom. It seems when HWR isolated the Sacred Timeline and its branches, he used the void and the loom to create a perfect circle of time and therefore as long as the loom was not overloaded, no branches would ever extend beyond it. The issue now is that they stopped pruning branches and so the loom can't bring in all of the new branches. But that's just my theory. Hopefully we'll get all then answers when the season ends. Can't wait to see where things go from here. Again, thanks for all of your fantastic feedback and theories!
OB wears two different jumpsuits in the past and present :D On one he collar is brown and on the other it's green. And the shoulders are reverse color of that. Funny detail haha, he changed but not much in a couple hundred years or whatever.
Interesting thought...I honestly think he didn't know what would happen. Remember, there was the point in the season finale where HWR said that he didn't know what was going to happen next. He said they reached the threshold. So he truly didn't know what their choice would be. As for why he brought them to him, he said he was tired and wanted to stop. So he offered them to take over the TVA. So I don't think he wanted the Kangs to return, but he did warn them that if they don't take over the TVA then they would return....but so would he. Reincarnation, as he pointed out. Pretty wild!
@@AbitofEverything4U I see what you are saying. But remember HWR is a villain and they tend to lie. So when he says that he doesn’t know I honestly don’t believe him. And him giving them a choice of killing him and taking over, I believe he knew that at least Sylvie would want him to die and I’m betting he was betting on her killing him. Either way he had a plan. Because be honest if they would have not killed him, then what? Just let him walk away free?
@@AbitofEverything4U and even if he didn’t know exactly what would happen, I’m sure he had his assumptions to what would happen. And based on those assumptions he set in motion his grand scheme.
They’re in a time loop. What does a loom do? Makes twine. How is twine stored? In a ball. That’s how they hide from the others too because they’re in their own ball of time.
Nice analogy! However, I just hope a Flerkin doesn't see that ball of time. You know how cats love to play with that stuff...and Goose is not an average cat! lol!
5:30, meh semantics in wording i think. Oft times ppl use erase stole or lost memory in the same or diff context to mean the same thing. So you had your memory erased could just be you lost your memory or your memories were taken /hidden and loki would be like yea any of those work it doesnt matter how you word it, just that you dont remember stuff you should.
24:50 im not so sure they arent aaying “the tva is outside the flow of normal time.” And then he who remains dying puts it back in the normal flow of time … or otherwise connects back to the multiverse and exposes it so to speak. To use a reference from elsewhere in the video. So the tva is similar to he who remains sitting at the end of time. They are in a timeless place within the confines of what is created by the sacred timeline. Mobius is more effectively saying, this place is timeless. Which is why he is saying time doesnt past there. And then why loki says, well it used to be but now time passes normally.
Oh and the reasons i was saying that is because the tva being in a timeless place doesnt mean internal timeflow mechanics are all negated. You could think of it like each person has a personal timeline. And normally your personal timeline runs congruent with the actual timeline. But since the tva exists in a timeless place the personal timeline only records physical actions. There is no tva specific timeline This would also explain why loki isnt confused about the situation when he is looped. Bec otherwise it would be erasing his memory and he would constantly do the exact same thing. So the tva doesnt have a largescale past to refer to. Like a period of time 400 yrs ago. But a person can be looped in on themselves
Excellent feedback on the vid. I agree on your point about memories being lost vs. completely wiped. I really just wanted to point out that their memories are still there, but they are deeply buried. So you said it perfetctly! I also think your comments on the TVA being outside the flow time make alot sense. I hope they unpack exactly how they were outside of time at one point but then HWR's death put them back into the flow of time. I'm really interested to see how that worked. And finally, I agree, the Secret Wars movie seems to be how they will finally decide the best way to win the war, and I think you are right that it may ultimately mean the death of all of the other universes. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing all your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
@@AbitofEverything4U oh wow, i certainly disnt expect response/feedback. Glad you found some merit in my responses! Love your videos and ill stick around 💛
It makes sense but theres just major plotholes. It is what it is. Just because He Who Remain isolated the Sacred Timeline, doesnt mean the Multiversal War stopped instantly which means Kangs should be completely whiped out. Even if He Who Remains didnt end the war, the war should ended from majority of the remaining Kangs killing each other off. Its a huge mess
I agree...I'd love to know what the other Kangs have been doing all this time. But perhaps after the multiversal war, they took charge and are ruling with an iron fist and not allowing more multiversal war. The big three that we saw in Quantumania seemed to be content with ruling over the council of Kangs. So perhaps things calmed down after HWR "won" the war and retreated into hiding.
@@AbitofEverything4U It all comes down to what MCU says, and they have to say it within their movies/shows and not through a twitter post lol. Same goes for the big bang theories, MCU have to mention it, in Loki show. We'll see how these last 2 episode play out. I have a feeling that MCU is gonna fuck it up lol and its gonna be a mess. Keeping my expectations low. If MCU is smart, they would tie the last 1-2 episodes into what the Kangs were doing (tie into what we saw in Antman 3). And The Marvels continue on more Kangs. We gotta ramp this up, and they need to show us more Multiverse stuff consistently. You're onto something, and the MCU is getting it right in terms of Victor Timey who is potentially aka He Who Remains variant, being a complete coward which proves that he would hide him and his Sacred Timeline from the multiverse. It's annoying to see this variant because he's a pussy lol, but its believable. But the MCU fucked up Kang the Conqueror in Antman 3, he should've just slaughtered all of the Quantum Realm easily. MCU have one more chance to redeem themselves, or this Multiverse Saga would be consider a failure and a joke.
I agree, we really do need Marvel to put all of the comments in a movie or show. But regarding the big bang, they did discuss it in the Eternals, in Guardians 1 and in Far From Home. And FFH even mentions the eternal inflation theory. So they seem to be leaning into the fact that the big bang created the universe and changed the 6 singularities into 6 infinity stones and thus each universe can have its own set of physics. Hopefully everything will become more and more clear as the multiverse saga moves along!
For number 5 if he who remains paved the way for Loki’s ‘nexus’ event to occur does that mean he could’ve somehow interfered with the time travel in endgame or endgame as whole to lead 2012 Loki to that point?
Good question...it could be that HWR interfered with the time heist...or it could be that HWR was looking for the perfect variant to capture and when the time heist happened, he realized that was the Loki he needed. It's hard to say for sure, but there's no doubt that the 2012 Loki was hand-picked for a reason. Wonder if we'll ever know exactly why?
I think some of these things they could have explained better in season 1. Maybe that’s what they do in season 2. Otherwise a lot of this makes so much sense.
Yes, I definitely agree, the first season was so well crafted but was also so complex, that it was hard to absorb it all. Granted, I can now see how they actually did explain alot in that first season and I just missed it, such as the line about "exposing" the sacred timeline if HWR dies...that was insane that I didn't pick it up until now. But I am really glad they did a second season to help bring everything together. In just one episode of Season 2 they tied up all 10 of those "lies" and at the same time, gave us some new mysteries to solve. Love this series so much!
12:00 - The Nexus event was their death. had they had died it would have made a branch. I believe Sylive was MEANT to get to the end of time and kill HWR, she's done it before. Loki (our loki) isn't suppose to be there. Why would HWR's transcript be on two pieces of paper? He Had Loki's Dialog on one and Sylvie on another. He also had the equation for Noncommuntativity , The Equation for solving a problem in any order to get the answer. x*Y = Y*x
Interesting theories! I guess I thought Loki was part of HWR's plan and that he was supposed to be there at the citadel. They each had different transcripts due to living separate lives for most of their existence. I suspect that each transcript has duplicate statements when they were finally together and talking to each other. But just a theory on my part. Thx so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Excellent point...I agree, if that had resulted in a new Kang, then old man Steve would be pruned. My guess is that the lack of a Reed Richards in 616 is the main thing preventing a new Kang from appearing down the line, since he is an ancestor of Reed Richards in the comics. I'm starting to wonder if the Fantastic Four won't appear in 616 and if instead their new movie will be in a different universe.
the sacret timeline is the one where he who remains was born in, so thats why he wants to protect that one above all others, its his own timeline that he needs to protect, otherwise he wouldnt exist and another kang would exist
But this literally means that the other Kangs are dead and are going to get reborn. This makes the most logical sense to me. These new Kangs arents just popping out of thin air. It all connects.
@@UltimateQball I think that HWR exiled himself by hiding in the loom and that he left the other Kang's alive. The biggest reason I think this is the case is the Kang Council retained their memories of HWR and it was why they were angry with him and wanted to be the ones to kill him. That makes me think that HWR didn't wipe them out, but instead just hid from them via the loom. So the Kang Council has been out there the whole time, but was unable to impact the sacred timeline due to the loom. But that's just my theory on it. I suspect we'll learn more in these last two episodes of Loki. Can't wait for the next one to drop. And thx so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Interesting...I agree that after coming out of the loom it becomes the "sacred timeline", but I do think it's composed of separate timelines. This interview by Michael Waldron goes into it, if you are interested: screencrush.com/michael-waldron-interview-loki-heels/.
I feel like the idea of pruning whole timelines for the sake of not having another version of Kang is unnecessary, if He Who Remains wanted to not have another Kang, Why not just eliminate that variant and leave the timeline without them so there would be only the death of the one Kang per timeline and not the countless people?
I think the issue is that once a nexus event hits the redline, it becomes a full timeline and since all of time exists at once, there would immediately be a new Kang in the future at that instant. So they must prune it before it goes redline to prevent that Kang appearing. That's my guess at least. I agree, they have not fleshed this concept out, other than saying that once a nexus his a redline it results in the destruction of everything (Ms. Minutes statement, so obviously not to be fully trusted). So your idea makes sense, but I wonder HWR decided pruning the whole timeline is better than trying to address the variant in the short window they have before it reaches redline.
I think Kang just isolated the sacred timeline and generally speaking we have been looking at this sequence of events in the loop wrong . The other Kangs probably have been existing in their own multiverse fighting heroes , villains , and other Kangs . Can’t wait for us to meet other heroes in other universes before the All New All Different MCU begins
@@AbitofEverything4U exactly . It’s crazy it took Kang excluding them for them to come together over something unless He Who Remains told half truths about the war and we find out it’s deeper than the surface . I have a sneaking suspicion Ravonna is at the center of it all. Kangs passion echoed of LONGING and DESPAIR more so than pure Villiany for evils sake in Quantumania
@@AbitofEverything4U when Kang is telling Janet she doesn’t know what he’s lost I think he’s referring to Ravonna . In Loki season 2 episode 1 we hear she was (will be) instrumental in the multiversal war .
@@bizzybrown8372I think that's a good theory. The closed captioning says the voice was He Who Remains, but I wondered if it was really the Kang from Quantumania.
Completely agree! ofc, the trick is finding those answers and putting them all together, but I agree, alot more has been revealed than it seems at first.
I have a question that maybe you could help. When Loki went to the past and butterfly effected OB do you think it was before or after OB crossed paths with Mobious (400 years ago)?
Good question! My guess is that it was before Mobius met OB as it seemed that they were implying that originally Mobius gave OB his nickname but now it was Loki, which would mean Loki went further back in time. But that's just my guess at this point. Let me know what you think as well...and thx for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
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I think there was a "past" in the TVA. Mobius just doesn't have a memory of a "past" because his memory has been wiped so often. They probably do it during the company picnic.
@@rogerroger5171LOL! Wouldn't that be nice to wipe our memories after too many drinks at the NYE party!
One thing I want to say about the time twister, it doesn’t really rewind you, it re/displaces you back to where you were. The characters experience it in present time, as we hear B-15 begging Loki to stop it, and no one forgets what happened right before they were put back. Just a thought I had.
Interesting! I like that theory alot. Nice call!
I think the "there's no past in the TVA" to "they don't experience the flow of time that ages them or their surroundings" otherwise everything would be happening all at once , multiple versions of Mobius doing multiple things at the same time ...much like how the dampen magic they dampened the ravages of time.
Yup, I really think that's go to be the case. Nice call!
So happy that you acknowledged the nexus event between Loki and Sylvie. Since I watched it, I’ve been wondering what nexus event where they referencing, because literally nothing happened in that scene. I haven’t heard any channels talk about it in the way you did, great analysis and I think you’re completely right.
Thanks...yeah, I've always thought that Loki and Sylvie's nexus event was HWR's doing and not a true nexus event, so I was glad to slip that into this video. Really appreciate you watching the vid and sharing your feedback!
My theory on the “there is no past in the TVA”: Time moves normally in the TVA, but He Who Remains used “time tech” on each “employee” to kinda freeze them all at their current ages (think Time Twister or time moving through Scott Lang) and periodically reset everyone’s minds (must have a telepath on staff, or somehow given himself telepathy?).
I think that makes alot of sense. And it would explain why HWR's death allowed a past to exist in the TVA. Great theory!
Older Sylvie is on his side. Deffo.
@@Natta44Yep, very valid theory!
Lie #4 hits different when you think about how we were presented with all the different iterations of Scott Lang in Quantumania. Ideally more versions of yourself would be a good thing but if your mind can’t handle that concept you’d want to eliminate as many versions of yourself as possible to get to your goal. This is how he “won” over Kang. Mental stability. Accepting who he is. Knowing what he’s fighting for. We’ve yet to get any real motivation for Kang except control, but does he have self control? Interesting.
Excellent commentary...you nailed it...often when someone wants control, they ultimately end up falling victim of their own lack of self-control. Well said!
I'm really hyped about Loki Season 2, the first episode was really promising and I hope it continues to get better!
I agree...the premier was fantastic...Really excited to see where the season goes from here!
Yet another video that I didn't realize I needed! I remember being really confused the very first time I watched the season 1 finale and heard HWR explain a bunch of stuff that contradicted everything I thought was true about the TVA and sacred timeline and all that other Miss Minutes propaganda. Everything makes so much more sense when broken down into the what all the lies were and what's actually true. Thanks for this great video!
Yeah, breaking it down like this sure helped me process it alot better. Glad you enjoyed it as well!
5:42 I think wiping memories works exactly like deleting data from any ssd or etc. Bits of information are not nullified, they are just marked as available for saving new information. But until new information is saved we still have all this data and still everyone rightly call this process as "deleting" (wiping). So the same with minds: their memory was wiped, but someone who can look inside minds can still gather their lost memories as Sylvie did
I like that! Very clever solution!
THANK YOU! I knew you would be the one to discuss these pieces of detail, like the Lamentis-1 nexus event being the duo's death because everything was planned by HWR, as he said. Also the fact that the whole Miss Minutes introductory video being complete and utter BS 😂 It was so satisfying hearing someone finally address these lies.
Irk? Yeah, it was fascinating revisiting all the lines from the entire series and finding all the untruths along the way. Such a great series. So well written and so much fun to unpack after each episode!
I won't watch breakdown/theory videos because I don't want to get spoiled, but I love these different type of videos about timelines and everything. And this one is really unique and interesting.
Thanks...so glad you enjoyed it. I loved putting the vid together, as it really helps me process all of the information in an organized fashion. The Loki shows have been so good at planting all these mysteries and then slowly unraveling them. Such a great series!
Yes, his understanding of timelines is excellent
@@nerd5948Thanks so much... I really appreciate that!
@@AbitofEverything4U I'm counting on ep 5 breakdown
@@nerd5948 Oh my word...that was a crazy episode...working on the breakdown as we speak!
I feel like with all the high concept ideas in Loki, it deserves more than one series of only six episodes every few years but at the same time if there was more I’d fear a decrease in quality
Right...that's the real dilemma...That said, I'm hopeful that the changes in the new agreements with the writers will allow for more quality projects and thus we'll have less of a fear regarding the quality dropping. Fingers crossed!
Our Savior (LOKI) is here! There's something special about this TV show and you can see the passion across the board; both behind and in front of the camera. Episode 1 in and I'm so invested in the multiverse concepts while feeing the threat that is Kang.
I hope we ride that sense urgency going forward past this TV show.
great video my man. 😘
I agree...Loki is soooooo good. And I do suspect we'll see the sense of urgency spreading beyond the show after this season ends. It's all starting to come together, which is so exciting!
@@AbitofEverything4U Thats what i want man. If the rumors are true n we ending the season with a Deadpool cameo to prep for DP3 then that would be so dope.
I honestly want storylines to start actually crossing over...teams forming with common threats...i mean we are already 2 phases in. So i hope thats the case after this season.
To Start having the TVA's minute men prune guys in the main timeline or branches. Those villains from no way home shd be arrested n pruned for crossing over or Dr Strange put on the stand hahaha
Can't wait for episode 2 though cheeii.
P.S. i appreciate it when u take time to respond n engage with ur subscribers...makes u unique. Keep it up
Yeah, I think we're going to see more and more crossovers with the movies and shows as it all builds to Secret Wars. Gonna great crazy!
I do wonder, if the Sacred Timeline consists of multiple branches that are so different, that they did produce wildly different Lokis... Why everytime the characters go to the timeline, regardless whether it's the main sacred timeline or one of the branches, everything looks exactly like in "our" timeline?
Great question. I did a separate video in Loki’s variants, if you are interested, but the main reason for the difference in his variants seems to be that the universe wanted to break free from the loom and so it created chaos through the Loki’s. That resulted in a female Loki and an alligator Loki, etc.
If the script He Who Remains had for Loki and Sylvie prescribed that they would be able to go to the Void and reach his citadel, then the very fact that they were about to die on Lamentis would be what caused the nexus event. Because them dying would deviate from the flow of the Sacred Timeline.
It didn't matter whether the two Loki variants fell in love. What mattered was that they were going to be killed in a few seconds, which wasn't supposed to happen.
Well said. I completely agree!
Thank you for this breakdown! I don't know why it didn't click for me until now that the Sacred Timeline was "isolated" from all others, rather than the only timeline left out of all multiverses. It makes Immortus' line at the end of Quantumania make more sense now: "they're beginning to touch the multiverse" ... because they've finally broken free of HWR.
Right! Yeah, the sacred timeline being isolated from the other timelines (rather than the other timelines being outright destroyed) does indeed make that line from Quantumania make more sense. And I think the "exiled one" that they refer to is He Who Remains, because he "exiled" himself. I suspect they might not even be aware that the Kang in the Quantum Realm died, as he really didn't even matter to them. Love how everything is coming together!
What I think mobius meant by time runs differently in the tva, is that no branches can be created in the tva, that's why loki can effect the past and see his effect in the present & mobius writing "skin" and loki seeing his writing in the future.
If loki had to go to a timeline and change things that would create a branch timeline, which shows that the tva is unique when it comes to time.
Interesting...okay, that does make some sense. If you can't branch, then you end up with butterfly effect by default. Great theory...I love it. Thanks for sharing that!
Very nice breakdown! Here after watching ep 2 and for sure we're learning more and more of the TVA (and things changing like the Butterfly Effect) as each new episode releases.
Didn't think about He Who Remains isolating the timeline as him hiding, but when you put it like that, yeah, he really is just hiding from the other Kangs. It makes his achievements sound a lot less impressive, since before it seemed like he won the Multiversal War, but in reality, he was just delaying it until he died and someone else would have his problem on their plate.
Also it's crazy to me that the closed captions are different than the transcript. It happened again in ep 2 when Loki and Sylvie had their talk outside, where it cut off a bit of dialogue. Don't know what's going on there, but been enjoying the season and can't wait for more
Yeah, it is pretty wild to think of HWR as hiding rather than winning. But it does really explain him stressing the part about "winning" the war, like he was almost trying to convince himself of it. And yeah, that closed captioning is weird. Not sure how they can manage to mess that up. I assumed someone did a rewatch to verify it was accurate, but perhaps not?
Loki is the next Tony Stark of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, the reason I say this, is because both of them during the start of the Infinity Saga & Multiverse Saga were captured while in the desert, then saw the consequences of their past actions, then they are both have trauma about a future threat coming, so that means during Avengers Secret Wars, Loki will sacrifice himself to defeat Kang the Conqueror, just like Tony Stark said, "And I am Iron Man", and Thanos said, "I am inevitable."
Wow...great theory...yeah, there are a ton of similarities between the two!
This video is crazy investigative it's insane how much you internalize every little detail and manage to organize it out with bullet points for each idea you have, I'm wondering how the nixing of majors is going to throw a major boot into the theme they had going with the kang plot and how they'll revise it and the direction they'll take, seems like the entire ten year plan has to be washed and redirected.. such a convoluted position they've created for themselves
Thanks so much for the positive feedback on the vid. Really appreciate it! Regarding the Kang storyline, I suspect that with the forced down time that resulted by the writer's strike (man that was painful!), it has allowed Feige and crew to decide on the best path forward to keep the overall storyline intact, but also to pivot as necessary away from Kang and perhaps bring in a new big bad (would love to see Dr. Doom) that will make the entire story still lead to a satisfying conclusion. Fingers crossed!
Im a fairly new sub. Just discovered your channel within the last month or so. I enjoy how much different your videos are from the norm. Once a TH-camr comes out with a video, you usually find the same topic on countless other MCU TH-camrs. You come up with your own original extremely interesting topics. Something I want to point out to you to see what you think. At 26:46 of your video there's a scene between Renslayer and Sylvie with two pictures on the wall behind them. The one on the right caught my eyes, could that be Loki standing in front of the other two TVA workers?
Thanks for the kind words and positive feedback on the vids. I agree, I try to do something unique with the content as I really like to lay everything out and investigate it in an orderly manner as my mind works so much better that way. As for the picture, yeah, I've always wondered about that. I'd be totally down for your theory about Loki to be true. Thx for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I wonder where the TVA is in the multiverse. Maybe it’s in Universe-0, and controls 616, so it doesn’t have an affect on the other universes
Yeah, I really hope they reveal where the TVA is located!
My theory is this - a Nexus event is anything that would cause the formation of the fantastic four. In the comics, Kang is a descendant of Reed Richards. If the fantastic four are never formed, reed never meets Sue, and a new kang is never born from their bloodline. I think this is why the fantastic four are nowhere to be found in the sacred timeline. I think this might play into the fantastic four movie whenever it releases
I mean, there's nothing to say that Reed existing would ABSOLUTELY lead to Kang. But you do have a point.
@@BlackHedgehog I think Reed can exist - I just don't think the Fantastic Four can be formed, hence why I think the foundation of the Fantastic Four hasn't yet taken place/been shown in any of the sacred timeline
@@john_comi Well yes that's what I meant by Reed existing. What I should of said was Reed and Sue's relationship existing.
Right...the end result HWR is protecting against is a new Kang, but I do agree that Reed is supposed to be an ancestor of Kang, so it would stand to reason that any timeline with a Reed Richards would therefore result in a Kang. Nice call!
@@BlackHedgehog I think the key is that if they stick to the comics, then Reed is an ancestor of Kang, so a Reed likely means a Kang later in the 31st century. But I agree, it's certainly possible to have a Reed w/o it leading to a Kang, per se.
It's crazy just how in control He Who Remains was the entire time. Really the only thing he couldn't control was Sylvie's choice to kill him, and now we have the Kang Council to deal with. Loki never even fought HWR and still he's probably one of the most intimidating antagonists in the MCU with his presence alone.
Well said...yeah, He Who Remains was such a fascinating character. He made things sound truly terrifying with his warnings of what was to come after his death. I love the Loki series and I think by the end of this season, things will be perfectly set up for the rest of the multiverse saga!
I never believed there could be such thing as 1 timeline.. impossible after the info from Dr. Strange multiverse of madness
Exactly! I totally agree...there simply had to be a multiverse while HWR was alive and managing the sacred timeline. It was a more controlled multiverse, vs. the chaos being unleashed after his death...but there was always a multiverse even during the sacred timeline. Well said!
Well when HWR died it restored the multiverse as it was before the war. And Doctor Strange 2 takes place after this. But anyway before HWR died there was a few timelines left and were being together called the sacred timeline. If you look at it there is multiple strings of different color which each string represent 1 universe.
@@ericleclerc3147Well said...yes, it sure seemed like there were multiple timelines in the sacred timeline images that we saw from the start. As for MoM, I read that earlier comment too quickly and thought it was referring to the first Dr. Strange. In that first film, the Ancient One spoke about the multiverse, so it seems there was indeed a multiverse prior to HWR death. It was just very controlled and had no Kangs in it.
I'm really enjoying your breakdowns
Thanks so much...really appreciate it!
I don’t think He Who Remains was specifically targeting any other Lokies aside from our Loki and Sylvie. I suspect he was pruning so many so that there would be an abundance of them at the end of time, that he was extra strict. However, it always struck me as odd how many Lokies there were, but how no Wandas, Stranges, or any other superheroes (who we know had specific roles on the timeline) were there; surely they’d be able to evade Alioth just as easily.
I also like that the Lokies just had their lives taken from them for failing to become their role, not that they were individually chosen, I think it’s more impactful that way.
To get really nerdy, I think Kang decides that he should prune Lokies for the sacred timeline and for other uses outside of it, sets up their nexus event trigger to be really sensitive about what a Loki should be (a lonely failure), and to also work even if it won’t change the timeline that significantly, or at all. Then I think he imagines two rogue Lokies will fall in love and eventually make their way to the end of time, aided by other pruned Lokis that manage to stop being lonely, self-absorbed failures. Something like that anyway. I don’t know if it 100% works, but I like the idea.
Great feedback! Yeah, it is so wild that there were so many Loki's in the void. But the reason I think that the Loki's were pruned specifically is because Old Loki was vital in allowing our Loki and Sylvie to reach HWR. So if Old Loki hasn't been there, they would have failed in their mission and since HWR paved every step of the way for them, it seems Old Loki was pruned specifically. But just my theory on that. Anyway, really appreciate you watching the vid and sharing your thoughts and theories. Loved reading it all!
I wasn’t a massive fan of season 1 but your videos and season 2 is making me appreciate it more 😁
That's great to hear...yeah, I have really enjoyed the way Season 2 has answered lots of questions from season 1 and has given us alot of new questions to consider for this season. Such a great series!
24:01 That's really neat detail and funny
Thanks! I thought that was pretty funny, too!
You are incredible dude! Keep it up! This is the type of content we need! You know your stuff! Love all the timeline shenanigans!
Thanks! Had alot of fun working on that vid. I agree...timeline shenanigans galore!
Point 5: Loki's nexus event was not supposed to happen - on the main Sacred Timeline. It was supposed to happen in one of the branches.
Yes, I agree, that’s a great theory!
I like how in season 1 the two lokis are legit the glue between the story A and B and the amalgamation of both . The agents were watching our Loki and the Hunters were tracking Sylvie . Loki and Sylvie come together and are brought to the tva . After discovering secrets of the TVA their curiosity and determination led them to the end of time where they discover everything that happened was scripted . Now in season 2 the story is still dependent on Loki and Sylvia’s independent journeys and will surely repeat season 1 regarding the two coming together by the end .
Good analysis...I agree, both Loki's played a key role in the first season and even though they are separated at the beginning of this season, I suspect their paths crossing will once again be a key point for season 2. It's very poetic!
I enjoy this video so much! My mind is going to explode with all this theories and all this questions, I can't wait for tomorrow episode and of course your breakdown! Thank you 😊
Wow, thanks so much for the positive feedback on the vids. Yeah, it's so much fun watching Loki and trying to figure it all out. Such a great series. Can't wait for the next episode to drop soon!
“Completely exposed”… which Is why you were right that those 3 Kangs in quantumania were talking about HWR. Bro I love this channel!! Ahaha
Right! I think that perfectly fits with the idea that the Kang Council was talking about HWR. Great point!
Fantastic breakdown! I truly enjoy your theories. I got one if you're interested. In analyzing all the lies told (or repeated) by the TVA,I started to wonder how much of what He Who Remains says can be taken as fact. It felt like "okay here we are. The man behind the curtain. Now we're getting truth." What if not??? Here's what I mean: if we accept as truth that he paved the road (all the roads that lead to him) and that from that point, he does not know what will happen: will they take over the TVA or burn it down? And he makes clear what the consequences of that will be "the infinite amount of me". What if that was a lie? What if he knew what Sylvie would do (which is why he made sure she was here)? If time is a circle and loops back around, he knew her actions from the last iteration...and counted on them. Why? Because he knew HE was on one or more other strands and would resurface...perhaps as the Quantumania Kang or Victor Timely (or both) but he would have achieved his goal first. That goal being that the Council of Kangs would detect his death!!! Now they're not looking for him. And now he can do what needs doing to win this new multiversal war. Its wobbly wobbly timey wimey for sure but I gotta admit the more I think about it, the more it's growing on me. He has created 2 exits from the stage, here and in the Quantum Realm to throw off everyone. Perhaps he thinks the Council will eventually fall to fighting among themselves in the Battle World weakening each other and then he plans to resurface and conquer all. In the comics, this role was Doctor Doom and when he created Battle World out of remants of all the destroyed universes, he appointed Barons to rule them. They could do whatever they wanted but no one could cross from one realm to another without his permission and no one could question his dogma. Maybe in Secret Wars the movie, the other Kangs will be functioning as the Barons and this Kang has usurped them. Food for thought!
Great theories! I agree, the thing I am questioning the most is what the "threshold" was that was indicated by thunder clap and HWR no longer knowing what was going to happen. I think that's a key moment and that they haven't revealed the full answer to us yet. Perhaps that will explain what was so different about that particular journey around the circle of time. I think your theory has alot of merit as I have to wonder if the multiversal war and the TVA and HWR, etc are all part of a giant closed loop that keeps repeating itself. Would be really wild if they went that direction for sure. Learning which strand of time HWR originated on will be a huge reveal when we finally find out. Thanks for watching the vid and sharing your theories. Really appreciate it!
Outstanding!!! Loved this video !!! Looking forward to tuning in after episode 2
Thanks so much...really appreciate it!
Nice video I can't wait for episode 2 to come out and learn more about the TVA.
Agreed...just abit more than 12 hours before it drops...Can't wait!
The most interesting thing I find here in regards to free will and the rules behind pruning, is when Mobius says, basically, that they've pruned more Lokis than anything else. Why Loki? It seems at first just to speak to the chaotic nature of the character.
But what if it's not? What if the reason that Kang keeps pruning Lokis is because they just deviated from the road he paved? All those pruned Lokis weren't to pave the way for this one special Loki, with Classic Loki being pruned so he could give his wisdom and Kid Loki being pruned so he could help our Special Loki. They were rejects. There were countless Lokis who didn't fall into the steps Kang wanted because of their free will, and so they were pruned. Only these two Lokis, our Loki and our Sylvie, were ones who happened to walk the right path to lead themselves to Kang.
When you have infinite timelines, infinite Lokis, you have infinite chances to get one who does everything just right to both make his way to you _and_ be willing to listen _and_ be willing to replace you. I would be willing to bet He Who Remains has given that same speech to dozens of Lokis dozens of times. That's why he knows how it's going to go. That's why when Sylvie stabs him it's, "See you soon." He's just going to see another Lokis in another timeline and do the speech over again. Until the infinite Loki dice finally rolls on the correct steps to what he wants.
It's not him paving the road. It's this one Loki out of infinite Lokis happening to hit all the right steps to take him down the road. The ones that don't are pruned.
If this is what you were trying to say and I'm just repeating you in different words, forgive me. I'm not even sure I'm explaining myself well. 😅
Good theories. I do agree, Loki is the god of mischief, so he is inherently going to go down the path no one wants him to follow. It's in his nature. I do think, though, that HWR did whatever was necessary to pave the path for Loki and Sylvie to find him. He told them that was the case and it seems to make sense. So whether all the pruned Lokis were there just to get our Loki to find HWR is certainly a valid question...but the reason I mentioned Old Loki was he was vital to helping Loki and Sylvie get past Alioth. If he wasn't there, they would have failed. So in some sense, a few of the Lokis were probably part of the path HWR paved. But that's just my guess. I do like your point that there's something about a Loki that leads them down the path no one wanted them to follow!
@@AbitofEverything4U Yeah, i do agree Kang created a road and tried to get _a_ Loki (or a pair of Lokis) to follow it, but it didn't have to be these specific two Lokis. It could have been any Loki, or any two Lokis, as long as they followed his path. Any Loki who deviated from that path got pruned, and that's why the TVA has pruned so many Lokis. There's nothing particularly special to Kang about this Loki, our Loki. He just was one of the ones who happened to follow the path and happened to get to the end of it.
I see it less like a rigid, pre-planned path and more like a game of roulette. You're hoping it lands on your number, but when you have infinite spins and the ability to throw out any spin that doesn't hit? You're always going to win. And once you've won, you have the ability to see the steps that had to happen to get you there. And they're bound to happen again, in an infinite amount of chances.
Yeah, ig I can see that as a possibility. I was just considering that he knew every last word they would say and every last move they would make (enabling him to dodge out of the way in that finale). So it seemed more likely to me that he paved the road intentionally, versus randomly...but you do raise an interesting point. Thx for sharing that alternate viewpoint to give me more to consider. Really appreciate it!
I think you may be right about five Kang variants previously running the TVA, but I don't think that's confirmed by the premiere. This could easily just be an artistic choice. Note that everywhere a Kang statue appears, there's only one of them. This relief is the only place that five are depicted, and even when he uncovers the relief, Loki refers to it as one person, so these side views may simply be alternate views of the same person like the Vitruvian Man drawings. After all, He Who Remains presumably created the TVA to end the multiversal war, and we know Ravonna was on his team for that, but her face doesn't appear on the relief. So this could easily just be an artistic representation of one guy rather than five guys.
I don't think the branches are happening because HWR is dead exactly. They're happening because the TVA has rebelled and are refusing to prune the branches that they normally would. If HWR was still alive he could prune them himself, take control of the TVA, wipe their minds to get them to continue pruning, or whatever. So his death allows the timeline to branch massively but it isn't the direct cause of the branching.
Completely agreed that the "Nexus event" on Lamentis was a fabrication of HWR's in order to put Loki and Sylvie where they need to be.
Even if you create a Nexus event or go against what HWR wants, you still have free will. It's just that the results of you exercising your free will might cause your universe to be erased. Of course that opens up the philosophical debates about whether it still counts as free will since it is literally free will but in effect your free will doesn't matter... So I guess it ultimately depends on what you're arguing. Are you arguing literally or pragmatically? Even in a true one timeline scenario, if someone knows what choice you're going to make and therefore that is what your choice is going to be, you still made the choice. It's just that if someone were to step outside of time they would know your choice before you do. It doesn't make it not a choice though.
Great feedback! Loved reading it all. On the multiple faces on the wall, I definitely agree that it doesn't confirm there was more than one person ruling the TVA...but if you add in the three statues in the citadel, along with the broken one, it does seem there were multiple rulers at one point. But it's certainly a mystery left unsolved for now.
I suspect the branches are pruning for the reason you said. Mobius and Hunter B-20 told the TVA to stop pruning, which was confirmed in the season 2 premier. So HWR was warning them to make up their mind quickly, as the branches were forming.
And good point about free will. I guess to me, free will means you can make a decision and not immediately have your timeline pruned after making it...but you are right...it was still a free will choice. So many interesting philosophical issues brought up by the show. Love this series so much!
This a amazing breakdown. This is a top 3 piece on Loki i have seen yet.
Thanks so much! I had alot of fun putting that vid together. Reviewing all the transcripts was a fascinating exercise. Really appreciate you watching and sharing your feedback!
The way I see it, a timeline is a sequence of event that everyone inside the sacred timeline must follow,there are many universes inside the sacred timeline but the 1 thing they have in common is that they all lead to him becoming he who remains and if they diverge they creat a nexus event meaning they might create a new timeline that does not end with he who remains winning
Well said...yes, I think that makes a ton of sense. Excellent feedback!
Lie 6 can be explained two ways:
1) Although He Who Remains was really adamant that he 'ended' the multiverse war, he didn't do that at all. The multiverse war continued to rage in every other universe except his (the so-called Sacred Timeline), which he isolated from the rest and made sure that no one got in.
Which makes me wonder though, how could he prevent people from other universes entering his universe? I pressume that you can cross from one universe to another if their branches grow in a way that they touch each other? And if you prune your universe's branches (like He Who Remains did), you will never reach another universe. But somehow I doubt that's the way the Kangs used, because waiting for the branches to naturally grow the way you want them to, so that you can visit another universe, would be a real pain in the ass. So there must be a way to cross universes even if they aren't touching. And how can you protect yourself from that? You won't go into other people's universes, fine - but what if other people go into yours?
2) The Sacred Timeline is actually the whole multiverse (not just one universe with multiple branches) woven together. (As explicitly said by Miss Minutes - who is a lying liar who lies, but still...) What we think are branches or smaller timelines within the Sacred Timeline are actually individual universes crammed together. Which He Who Remains somehow forced to follow the same flow of time, so that the same events are happening in each separate universe, only they're so to say "played by different actors".
Which would explain why every Loki we saw in the Void is so different - each one is from a different universe.
There would be more questions though. Like: why do all the Kangs look so different if they're from different universes, while the opposite is true for the Loki variants? Or, why every timeline the TVA agents ever visited looked exactly like our well-known MCU timeline? Where are the weird universes we saw in the last Doctor Strange movie?
I think the answer to your question is #1 and that the loom is what protects the sacred timeline from the rest of the multiverse. As long as the sacred timeline is encased in the loom, no other universe’s branches will cross over.
Good video! Before your videos I didn't understand anything that was happenin in Loki, but your videos have made it pretty clear.
Thanks! Yeah, it sure helps me as well to lay things out like this. Loki is a complex story, but they have kept it very consistent and slowly unpacked the mystery as we have gone along. Really do love the show!
Man I was waiting for you to drop sone knowledge, thank you bro I hope this will help me understand Loki true angle outside of just the tva this season
Hope it's helpful...it sure helped me to lay it all out in the video. My mind works better when I set things out in an orderly fashion and take them one at a time. Thanks for watching!
Love your explanation for the Lamentis Nexus Event. Mobius' theory always bothered me.
Thanks! Yeah, that explanation works so much better for me. Seems to tie in well with the overall theme behind why HWR was pruning certain nexus events and not others.
7:24 Why is it that he who remains death caused a bunch of new branches to be created? I believed that the branches were created by mobius and B-15 ordering the TVA to stop pruning, as they alluded to in season 2 episode 1
Agreed...I think that's the case as well. I don't think I mentioned it in this particular vid, but I think you are 100% correct on why the new branches were created!
Love this series, love this video, love your channel! Keep building our story ! 🔥
Thanks so much...yeah, I agree, Loki has been fantastic so far. Can't wait to see how it all ends!
What I'm still unclear on is the "We just passed the threshold..." event in Season 1, Episode 6. -- Even though HWR knows what it is (as far as calling it 'crossing the threshold') he still seems to react with uncertainty and surprise at it occuring as if it was completely unexpected. -- What I'm not clear on is what caused it? Whether it was caused by enchanting Alioth, or if something else caused it?
Yeah, that is a huge mystery to me at this point. I really hope they do explain that. It's possible that it was a pre-planned event where HWR shut down the TVA software at that moment, causing the uncontrolled branching to start. But that doesn't explain why he was surprised. Hopefully that answer is coming in season 2!
I’d be okay with an episode that’s dedicated to just sitting with Loki and Mobius and OB just discussing what’s happening
I agree...that would be epic. I'd be totally down for that!
That Kang wall scene was really cool
I agree...that was a standout scene in the first episode. Love the new season!
I just double-checked S1E3 Lamentis for the part where Sylvie tells Loki that hunter C-20’s margarita memory was “from hundred of years prior”. I was hoping there was a more specific number mentioned somewhere, to better relatively place the past TVA scenes in this episode, or even the formation of the TVA, assuming HWR “recruited” all the workers pretty much in one go (in TVA timeline, obviously they come from a range of times from sacred timeline, although all SEEM to be from roughly late 20th century, perhaps because they’d be the ones most comfortable with operating Kang/OB’s TVA tech). I guess we can glean from this that it was less than ~1000 years ago, but more than 400, assuming C-20 started around the same time as B-15 and Mobius.
I’m excited to see where the year 2321 from that tape recording screen falls on this whole TVA timeline.
I think OB’s line “Wow, that makes perfect sense! There’s no flaw in that logic” when he and Mobius realize the butterfly effect is happening in real-time is _definitely_ (especially with how KHQ delivered it) a callback to the Endgame scene where Hulk confusingly (for comedic effect) explains branching timelines and why killing baby Thanos wouldn’t work. They’re meta-making fun of themselves for Hulk and Nebula making fun of Scott and Rhodey for not knowing that BTTF is “obviously” not how time travel works, because that’s exactly how it’s working here 😂
Yes, I think your ranges for the timetable of the TVA's creation make sense....I'll be anxious to see if they give us specifics on it as the season progresses...especially that 2321 date being thrown in there. And I agree that OB's statement about no flaw in the logic may well be referring to the Hulk and the time travel discussion in Endgame. If so, that's a very clever callback!
They really started the series with a BANG. So much new questions🥰😍
Yes, such a great season premier. Loving it so far!
It makes total sense that the sacred timeline is actually more than one timeline, if you think about it this way: There are infinite timelines where you're waking up in your bed at 8:03 and another at 8:06 and there's no real difference to the bigger picture. There are infinite timelines with teeny-tiny changes that are still fine up to a certain threshold. But this makes less sense, if you turn that statement around. Because if there are infinite timelines with tiny changes, then there are infinite timelines where Loki escaped from New York with the tesseract. So why is there only one Loki that got captured by the TVA that we're observing in the series? My head is starting to hurt trying to makes sense of all that time travel stuff, but it's always so interesting
Yeah, great point. If you consider the infinite number of different possibilities, it means there infinite different timelines. So the idea that the TVA could prune the majority of them, leaving only a few to be wound back into the loom, is hard to conceive. I think the concept of Loki is cool, but I agree, it doesn't seem possible to think there are enough TVA members to prune all those branches. But just letting that point go for moment, and rolling with the story at hand, it does help explain why the loom is unable to contain all the new branches and why I think they ultimately must shut it down or it will keep exploding.
Remember He who remains never ended the multiversal war, he only isolated the 616 universe timeline. OB then said the temporal loom weaves raw time into strings of timelines woven together to form the sacred timeline.
I believe Kang used the temporal loom to shape the 616 universe into the sacred timeline with the same tech used in creating the probability storm in antman quantumania.
100% agree... my apologies if I didn't say that very clearly in the vid, but I agree completely with what you said!
"There has to be time, or you can't rewind"
You could actually have a reverse process working forward in time (even in a reality where Presentism is true, meaning only one self-transformative moment exists physically). Basically, imagine playing a tape backwards (which happens forward in time). The assumption being, you have to be able to tap into something that controls or remembers how things evolved in time, so that you can reverse it.
Also, arguably, in the series only bodies of people subjected to 'time twisters' were reversed while their minds worked forward (and thus registered that their bodies have been reversed).
Interesting theory...if it does turn out that there was no true time in the TVA before HWR died, then your theory for how the time twisters could work in that environment makes alot of sense. Thanks for sharing that idea. Really appreciate it!
I think it's weird that the closed captioning doesn't catch all of the words they said. I've noticed that a lot and not just in episode 1 but in the last season too. Interesting video.
I agree...you would think that the close captioning would be entered manually, rather than auto-generated, as the auto-generated method always seems to produce errors.
About lie #8, I think there was always a past, absolutely. If there is literally NO time flowing, nothing can ever function. There would be no cause and effect, no relationship between events. The key to understand this paradox, I think, is to notice that what Mobius really said is not "there is no past AT the TVA", but rather "there is no past TVA". He's not saying that within the TVA time does not flow. He's saying that there is no other version of the TVA other than the current one and never has been. Sure, time keeps flowing, but the TVA itself does not change. Even after who knows how many centuries ago, it still has the same people, working in the same building, doing the same job, with the same rules, etc. But then Loki starts claiming that he's been to a TVA in which there's a giant statue of Kang instead of the Time Keepers, where people don't recognize him (remember: in Season 1 Mobius already knew who Loki was even before he was pruned!), where the War Room looks totally different, etc, and he claims that all of that is actually in their own past. That's why, I believe, Mobius was so surprised, because he was told that there ever was no other version of the TVA, other than the one that he knew.
Well said! Yes, I think that makes alot of sense. This show has been so much fun to watch. So well written. Love it!
@@AbitofEverything4U And Season 2 has only just started! Can't wait for the next episode!
Ditto!
I really think they should get the people who wrote this show to write Kang Dynasty & Secret Wars. I feel as if they’re setting it up anyway and they have a cohesive vision for the multiverse/ time travel. Kang needs to make sense.
I agree...the writers of Loki are doing a fantastic job and I hope they are helping with both Kang Dynasty & Secret Wars. Even if they aren't the head writers, they need to at least be on the writing team for sure!
Something I just realized: Loki is the God of Lies, so it makes sense that he'd see through (or at least notice) all the lies around him.
Also if you consider He Who Remains himself to be the "Time Keeper" then 1 and 2 aren't technically lies, because he was in charge and he did create the workforce by capturing and brainwashing variants.
We never did find out how Dox knew about the End of Time, though.
Excellent points! Yeah, in some regards the "lies" for #1 and #2 are more about how Miss Minutes was sharing things that HWR was actually doing, but just explaining it in a misleading way. And yeah that's a great point about Dox. ig we have to assume that she had info that others didn't have, due to her high-ranking position. But I agree, I'd love to know more about how she got that info!
Glad I found your channel 💯
Top tier content!!
Thanks so much...I really do appreciate the positive feedback!
That's why I like the loki series so much😂The first season was more of like the development of Loki as a character the TVA was somewhat of an enigma to us but this season we dive deeper learning about the TVA❤
Well said...yeah, that's what is making this second season feel so different...we're learning the truth behind all of the mysteries that the first season set up!
Yet another masterpiece🎉
Thanks so much...really appreciate it!
The Nexus events of Lokis and Sylvie too, could have been actual Nexus events (or some might have been while others were faked). HWR could use some of the already pruned people out of convenience.
Good point...yes, it could be a fake nexus event or a real one, but either way it was all manufactured to bring Loki and Sylvie to him in the end. And I agree, some of the others could have just fallen into his plan after they were pruned out of convenience. Either way, he laid all the steps out perfectly!
So excited for this video!
Thanks! Had alot of fun putting it together!
Doesn’t this seem like a Wandavision? Folks have some type of memory loss. Also since we’re talking about the total mcu… isn’t that what the kree did to captain marvel at first ?? Temporarily wipe her memory or confuse It … hope I’m making sense or you get the gist
Good point...yes, in a way this is like WandaVision and Captain Marvel. What's so fascinating about this show, however, is how we were told so many lies in that first episode and how even at the end of Season 1, it was still hard to unpack the truth from the lies. This show was so effective in tricking us along the way. Really an impressive feat of writing!
Great video as always
Thanks!
The writing in this show is in a ouroboros like structure . A lot of poetry woven throughout
I agree...it is amazing to look at how well the show functions as a whole...it is so solid in the storytelling and it is indeed poetic in nature!
I totally forget about the contest so I'm gonna post some random coments now :P Kinda unpleasant but I'll do it anyway. Sorry
Best of luck!
17:09
Whoa whoa, that's been there the whole time?
" _Expose_ " the Timeline?
I don't remember that being said at all.
Ikr? Can you believe that? How did I miss that the first time I did the vid on isolating the timeline? It was so helpful to read all the transcripts and really look for all the clues that way. That line is sooooo perfect!
Ms. Minutes may have been created out of the loneliness for He Remains. Is the secret Ms. Minutes was created with the Renslayer in mind!
I love that idea...yeah, I could imagine that Miss Minutes was the replacement for Renslayer. Excellent theory!
Wow amazing video there's quite a bit I want to bring up too.
For lie 1, it totally isn't the timekeepers, but I'm not convinced that the Kang Council ran the TVA. Now this makes things really confusing but I think it was just he who remains who ran it because the TVA seems like either the means to end the universal war, in which case why work with the Kang Council, or the TVAs creation took place shortly after in which case he couldn't have worked with them. I think this was a case of them using a lot of different images of Johnathan Majors for He Who Remains on the wall, the same way if we saw a mural of a bunch of Benedict Cumberbatches face we'd assume its his variants too, but I think that was just an artistic choice, that doesn't mean its the Kang Council. Now they didn't make that very clear because every Kang looks like Johnathan Majors but I think its important to note that they all look completely identical, not a single change between them, whereas almost every member of the Kang Council looks slightly different. Just my 2 cents on the matter.
Also for Lie 8, I think the inconsistencies there just boil down to how impossible it is to convey that idea on screen. For example if you take a single step in the TVA then you must've taken a previous step to get there, so for them to properly convey having no passage of time what nobody can move now? It's just impossible to show on screen without contradicting itself. I think we just have to look past the previous events and stuff like the lunch times as eh time works weird there. Because ultimately I do think that the TVA didn't used to have a past and now it does. As for the Time Twister, yeah thats a pretty big mess up there, I don't know how exactly that works but I think maybe it actually flows time through the person rather then going back in time to the TVA, like how time was flowed through Ant-Man to age him up and down, thats what I'm going to go with.
Lie 9 is definitely a big moral question here thats definitely going to be explored all season but I think it's important to at least mention the possible truth to what Kang says. They're stopping more Kangs and more multiversal wars, is it worth killing trillions to save hundreds of trillions across the multiverse? not sure there's a right answer but worth mentioning.
Lie 10 actually leads into my own theory/question that I'm starting to wonder is What actually creates a branch? We know that the TVA only detects branches that create other Kangs, and we know that taking away the infinity stones from the past in Endgame creates a branch, as well as making major decisions in life can create branches like in What If? This made it pretty clear to me that any decision you make creates a branching reality or even traveling back in time at all immediately makes a branch. Idk If that was ever said anywhere but that was my presumption. But the new video on the Butterfly Effect on Marvel Studios' TH-cam page seems to question that basically saying if we can fix it, then it doesn't count.
But this makes me question with something like the grandfather paradox, if you go back in time and kill your grandfather but the TVA comes in and uses a defibrillator to revive him, does that not create a branch now? Loki Season 2 seems to be questioning this too with going back and seeing OB not making a branch at least seemingly. This could also fix the Captain America Endgame issue, he just undid the stones being gone so it doesn't count and him being there doesn't make a branch. Not sure that I'm the biggest fan because it kinda leaves things more up in the air but seems to be their direction.
So I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on that.
Final thing, and I promise I'm just messing with you, you make great content and I really love your videos this is in no means a real complaint but dude you did it again 30:35 end of season 6? You gotta be living in 2030 or something lol
First off...ugh! How did I say season 6 again. And this time I didn't even notice it on the review of the vid. The last time I noticed it and was like, "eh, not worth fixing". This time I didn't even notice it. Maybe I'm dreamwalking in a universe where Loki is already on season 6?
For Lie #1, I agree, we know it's a lie, but it's hard to know what the actual truth is at this point. That one will be a fun one to keep track of as the season progresses.
For Lie #8, I like your idea of how the time twister could work even if there is no concept of a past while HWR was alive...ala the Scott Lang passing time thru the person idea. Will be very interesting if they explain how there was no concept of "the past" before HWR died, and now there is.
For Lie #9, I think this moral dilemma will be fascinating to follow as the multiverse saga progresses. It was a big dilemma during the 2015 Secret Wars Hickman run as well.
For Lie #10, I'm not sure whether to put any faith in anything Miss Minutes says, so I took that butterfly video as a fun little joke myself. I think Marvel made it to bring up the concept, but also to have some fun with it. But I do agree with all of your reasons for a branch being created (i.e. time travel, removing a stone, and unique decisions...ala "What If"). I'm not sure what happens if you travel back in time and kill your grandpa but then the TVA tries to fix it. I am wondering how much they will use the butterfly effect in the main universes like 616, as I suspect you have to branch if you time travel in the main universes, as that travel is via the quantum realm. I'm starting to wonder if the butterfly effect only happens in the TVA now that HWR has died. So I don't know if the TVA can actually correct a butterfly effect issue or if Miss Minutes was messing with us in that vid. I tend to think they can't fix a butterfly effect, but I'll be anxious to see where the series goes from here.
Great feedback as always!
What’s really funny about free will, not just in Loki, but in the MCU as a whole is ironic. Because they’re all fighting for free will in the TVA, then you have She-Hulk who Canonized K.E.V.I.N. into the equation, making him the spinner of the storyline, or even “timeline”, of events.
So in the MCU’s Reality, the only ones that have TRUE free will are characters that can break the fourth wall. So far just She-Hulk and Deadpool in a sense. Connecting this argument to Deadpool 3 coming out featuring…? The TVA.
Wow...excellent points. Seeing Deadpool and the TVA in the same movie will indeed be quite fascinating. Love that analysis!
Man, the higher-ups at the TVA lie as much if not more than the titled god of mischief!😅
LOL! They do indeed!
what he who remains did was he shaped and spilts the 616 universe, histories into different strings that formed the sacred timeline that's why when the avengers travelled back in time in endgame, there was no butterfly effect instead a new probability formed from that one string of woven sacred timeline where history played out differently.
I think he who remains prunes any timeline that branches beyond the temporal loom.
I definitely agree that the Time Heist wasn't butterfly effect and instead created new branches in the loom. But I don't think that branches can extend beyond the loom. It seems when HWR isolated the Sacred Timeline and its branches, he used the void and the loom to create a perfect circle of time and therefore as long as the loom was not overloaded, no branches would ever extend beyond it. The issue now is that they stopped pruning branches and so the loom can't bring in all of the new branches. But that's just my theory. Hopefully we'll get all then answers when the season ends. Can't wait to see where things go from here. Again, thanks for all of your fantastic feedback and theories!
Looking forward to seeing how everything resolved
Agreed...loved the first episode and can't wait to see where it goes from here!
OB wears two different jumpsuits in the past and present :D On one he collar is brown and on the other it's green. And the shoulders are reverse color of that. Funny detail haha, he changed but not much in a couple hundred years or whatever.
He must be someone that finds a look he likes and he sticks with it...for centuries! lol!
I love the videos!
Thanks so much...really appreciate that. Had alot of fun making it!
You could honestly say that he who remains wants the kangs to return.
Why would he want Loki and Sylvie to find him?
He knew that she would kill him.
The other kangs returning is apart of his long term plan.
Interesting thought...I honestly think he didn't know what would happen. Remember, there was the point in the season finale where HWR said that he didn't know what was going to happen next. He said they reached the threshold. So he truly didn't know what their choice would be. As for why he brought them to him, he said he was tired and wanted to stop. So he offered them to take over the TVA. So I don't think he wanted the Kangs to return, but he did warn them that if they don't take over the TVA then they would return....but so would he. Reincarnation, as he pointed out. Pretty wild!
@@AbitofEverything4U I see what you are saying. But remember HWR is a villain and they tend to lie. So when he says that he doesn’t know I honestly don’t believe him.
And him giving them a choice of killing him and taking over, I believe he knew that at least Sylvie would want him to die and I’m betting he was betting on her killing him.
Either way he had a plan.
Because be honest if they would have not killed him, then what? Just let him walk away free?
@@AbitofEverything4U and even if he didn’t know exactly what would happen, I’m sure he had his assumptions to what would happen. And based on those assumptions he set in motion his grand scheme.
@@AbitofEverything4U and I still believe the return of the kangs or at the very least the reveal of there mere existence is part of the grand scheme.
Great stuff!
Thanks so much...really appreciate it!
They’re in a time loop. What does a loom do? Makes twine. How is twine stored? In a ball. That’s how they hide from the others too because they’re in their own ball of time.
Nice analogy! However, I just hope a Flerkin doesn't see that ball of time. You know how cats love to play with that stuff...and Goose is not an average cat! lol!
Great video!
Thanks so much...really appreciate it!
5:30, meh semantics in wording i think. Oft times ppl use erase stole or lost memory in the same or diff context to mean the same thing.
So you had your memory erased could just be you lost your memory or your memories were taken /hidden and loki would be like yea any of those work it doesnt matter how you word it, just that you dont remember stuff you should.
24:50 im not so sure they arent aaying “the tva is outside the flow of normal time.”
And then he who remains dying puts it back in the normal flow of time … or otherwise connects back to the multiverse and exposes it so to speak. To use a reference from elsewhere in the video.
So the tva is similar to he who remains sitting at the end of time. They are in a timeless place within the confines of what is created by the sacred timeline.
Mobius is more effectively saying, this place is timeless. Which is why he is saying time doesnt past there. And then why loki says, well it used to be but now time passes normally.
Oh and the reasons i was saying that is because the tva being in a timeless place doesnt mean internal timeflow mechanics are all negated.
You could think of it like each person has a personal timeline. And normally your personal timeline runs congruent with the actual timeline. But since the tva exists in a timeless place the personal timeline only records physical actions. There is no tva specific timeline This would also explain why loki isnt confused about the situation when he is looped. Bec otherwise it would be erasing his memory and he would constantly do the exact same thing.
So the tva doesnt have a largescale past to refer to. Like a period of time 400 yrs ago. But a person can be looped in on themselves
The only way to do that is to win the war. Or all the universes all die. Which would make sense with the secret wars thing
Excellent feedback on the vid. I agree on your point about memories being lost vs. completely wiped. I really just wanted to point out that their memories are still there, but they are deeply buried. So you said it perfetctly!
I also think your comments on the TVA being outside the flow time make alot sense. I hope they unpack exactly how they were outside of time at one point but then HWR's death put them back into the flow of time. I'm really interested to see how that worked.
And finally, I agree, the Secret Wars movie seems to be how they will finally decide the best way to win the war, and I think you are right that it may ultimately mean the death of all of the other universes.
Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing all your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
@@AbitofEverything4U oh wow, i certainly disnt expect response/feedback. Glad you found some merit in my responses! Love your videos and ill stick around 💛
Very interesting breakdown. 👍
Thanks! Had alot of fun putting it together. Been a great start to the new season!
It makes sense but theres just major plotholes. It is what it is. Just because He Who Remain isolated the Sacred Timeline, doesnt mean the Multiversal War stopped instantly which means Kangs should be completely whiped out. Even if He Who Remains didnt end the war, the war should ended from majority of the remaining Kangs killing each other off. Its a huge mess
I agree...I'd love to know what the other Kangs have been doing all this time. But perhaps after the multiversal war, they took charge and are ruling with an iron fist and not allowing more multiversal war. The big three that we saw in Quantumania seemed to be content with ruling over the council of Kangs. So perhaps things calmed down after HWR "won" the war and retreated into hiding.
@@AbitofEverything4U It all comes down to what MCU says, and they have to say it within their movies/shows and not through a twitter post lol. Same goes for the big bang theories, MCU have to mention it, in Loki show. We'll see how these last 2 episode play out. I have a feeling that MCU is gonna fuck it up lol and its gonna be a mess. Keeping my expectations low. If MCU is smart, they would tie the last 1-2 episodes into what the Kangs were doing (tie into what we saw in Antman 3). And The Marvels continue on more Kangs. We gotta ramp this up, and they need to show us more Multiverse stuff consistently. You're onto something, and the MCU is getting it right in terms of Victor Timey who is potentially aka He Who Remains variant, being a complete coward which proves that he would hide him and his Sacred Timeline from the multiverse. It's annoying to see this variant because he's a pussy lol, but its believable. But the MCU fucked up Kang the Conqueror in Antman 3, he should've just slaughtered all of the Quantum Realm easily. MCU have one more chance to redeem themselves, or this Multiverse Saga would be consider a failure and a joke.
I agree, we really do need Marvel to put all of the comments in a movie or show. But regarding the big bang, they did discuss it in the Eternals, in Guardians 1 and in Far From Home. And FFH even mentions the eternal inflation theory. So they seem to be leaning into the fact that the big bang created the universe and changed the 6 singularities into 6 infinity stones and thus each universe can have its own set of physics. Hopefully everything will become more and more clear as the multiverse saga moves along!
For number 5 if he who remains paved the way for Loki’s ‘nexus’ event to occur does that mean he could’ve somehow interfered with the time travel in endgame or endgame as whole to lead 2012 Loki to that point?
Good question...it could be that HWR interfered with the time heist...or it could be that HWR was looking for the perfect variant to capture and when the time heist happened, he realized that was the Loki he needed. It's hard to say for sure, but there's no doubt that the 2012 Loki was hand-picked for a reason. Wonder if we'll ever know exactly why?
I think some of these things they could have explained better in season 1. Maybe that’s what they do in season 2. Otherwise a lot of this makes so much sense.
Yes, I definitely agree, the first season was so well crafted but was also so complex, that it was hard to absorb it all. Granted, I can now see how they actually did explain alot in that first season and I just missed it, such as the line about "exposing" the sacred timeline if HWR dies...that was insane that I didn't pick it up until now. But I am really glad they did a second season to help bring everything together. In just one episode of Season 2 they tied up all 10 of those "lies" and at the same time, gave us some new mysteries to solve. Love this series so much!
Now that's a banging title
Yes, sir...this one was fun to put together. It builds on everything we've discussed. Love watching the mysteries slowly unfold and come together!
you made me watch loki season 1 again
Nice! Yeah, it's such a great season...well worth the re-watch!
Just subscribed!
Thanks so much....really appreciate your support!
12:00 - The Nexus event was their death. had they had died it would have made a branch. I believe Sylive was MEANT to get to the end of time and kill HWR, she's done it before.
Loki (our loki) isn't suppose to be there. Why would HWR's transcript be on two pieces of paper? He Had Loki's Dialog on one and Sylvie on another. He also had the equation for
Noncommuntativity , The Equation for solving a problem in any order to get the answer.
x*Y = Y*x
Interesting theories! I guess I thought Loki was part of HWR's plan and that he was supposed to be there at the citadel. They each had different transcripts due to living separate lives for most of their existence. I suspect that each transcript has duplicate statements when they were finally together and talking to each other. But just a theory on my part. Thx so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
You need more subs. Feel like the algorithm will blow you up soon enough
Yup...I'm just chuggin' away in hopes of becoming friends with the mysterious algorithm one day! : )
Old man Steve would have been pruned if him going back to have a life with Peggy created a new Kang.
Excellent point...I agree, if that had resulted in a new Kang, then old man Steve would be pruned. My guess is that the lack of a Reed Richards in 616 is the main thing preventing a new Kang from appearing down the line, since he is an ancestor of Reed Richards in the comics. I'm starting to wonder if the Fantastic Four won't appear in 616 and if instead their new movie will be in a different universe.
the sacret timeline is the one where he who remains was born in, so thats why he wants to protect that one above all others, its his own timeline that he needs to protect, otherwise he wouldnt exist and another kang would exist
Great point...yes, I think HWR definitely wants the sacred timeline protected to protect his own existence. Totally agree!
But this literally means that the other Kangs are dead and are going to get reborn. This makes the most logical sense to me. These new Kangs arents just popping out of thin air. It all connects.
@@UltimateQball I think that HWR exiled himself by hiding in the loom and that he left the other Kang's alive. The biggest reason I think this is the case is the Kang Council retained their memories of HWR and it was why they were angry with him and wanted to be the ones to kill him. That makes me think that HWR didn't wipe them out, but instead just hid from them via the loom. So the Kang Council has been out there the whole time, but was unable to impact the sacred timeline due to the loom. But that's just my theory on it. I suspect we'll learn more in these last two episodes of Loki. Can't wait for the next one to drop. And thx so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I would say it is a single timeline once it goes through the loom. Like a rope it becomes one thing after it’s put together
Interesting...I agree that after coming out of the loom it becomes the "sacred timeline", but I do think it's composed of separate timelines. This interview by Michael Waldron goes into it, if you are interested: screencrush.com/michael-waldron-interview-loki-heels/.
I feel like the idea of pruning whole timelines for the sake of not having another version of Kang is unnecessary, if He Who Remains wanted to not have another Kang, Why not just eliminate that variant and leave the timeline without them so there would be only the death of the one Kang per timeline and not the countless people?
I think the issue is that once a nexus event hits the redline, it becomes a full timeline and since all of time exists at once, there would immediately be a new Kang in the future at that instant. So they must prune it before it goes redline to prevent that Kang appearing. That's my guess at least. I agree, they have not fleshed this concept out, other than saying that once a nexus his a redline it results in the destruction of everything (Ms. Minutes statement, so obviously not to be fully trusted). So your idea makes sense, but I wonder HWR decided pruning the whole timeline is better than trying to address the variant in the short window they have before it reaches redline.
🥁 The Champ is here ! 🥁
You are too kind...thanks so much for the positive feedback...really appreciate it!
I pretend I understand my Loki X TVA logic until something happens and then I’m done with TVA LOGIC
Yeah, it is a complex series. But it's fun to try to put it all together piece by piece!
I think Kang just isolated the sacred timeline and generally speaking we have been looking at this sequence of events in the loop wrong . The other Kangs probably have been existing in their own multiverse fighting heroes , villains , and other Kangs . Can’t wait for us to meet other heroes in other universes before the All New All Different MCU begins
Totally agree...all those other Kangs have been out there the whole time and once they can access the Sacred Timeline, it's gonna get real!
@@AbitofEverything4U exactly . It’s crazy it took Kang excluding them for them to come together over something unless He Who Remains told half truths about the war and we find out it’s deeper than the surface . I have a sneaking suspicion Ravonna is at the center of it all. Kangs passion echoed of LONGING and DESPAIR more so than pure Villiany for evils sake in Quantumania
Yeah, I'm really interested to see what role Ravonna plays in all this. I'm with you that I think she will be key to whatever's going down!
@@AbitofEverything4U when Kang is telling Janet she doesn’t know what he’s lost I think he’s referring to Ravonna . In Loki season 2 episode 1 we hear she was (will be) instrumental in the multiversal war .
@@bizzybrown8372I think that's a good theory. The closed captioning says the voice was He Who Remains, but I wondered if it was really the Kang from Quantumania.
I think the answers we've been looking for has already been revealed in Loki and antman and the wasp quantumania
Completely agree! ofc, the trick is finding those answers and putting them all together, but I agree, alot more has been revealed than it seems at first.
@@AbitofEverything4U yes and they've been giving hints like temporal loom, kangs timeship core and victor timely's through put multiplayer.
Completely agree!
I have a question that maybe you could help. When Loki went to the past and butterfly effected OB do you think it was before or after OB crossed paths with Mobious (400 years ago)?
Good question! My guess is that it was before Mobius met OB as it seemed that they were implying that originally Mobius gave OB his nickname but now it was Loki, which would mean Loki went further back in time. But that's just my guess at this point. Let me know what you think as well...and thx for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
@@AbitofEverything4U Oh yeah! That clue about the name makes me think you're right! 👏🏻
Yeah, it seems to fit really well, and it was also another clever butterfly effect that the episode snuck in!