It was actually the high Elves that were trying to convince Tulius not to execute Ulfric on the spot at Helgen. You can barely see them arguing as you enter the city on back of the cart. They are using the conflict for their greater purpose and need it to keep going. Alduin appearing is still an open debate. Fate or pure luck? Great video!
As me, after more rhan 10 years of playing Skyrim and modding it to .... ?! I have decided ... NOT TO PLAY any DRAGONBORN-Char, ANY MORE! With the help of some mods, it is possible enjoy tthe Beauty of this Land, you know ;)
I don't care what anyone say about this guy but one thing I know, a wise and decisive leader won't recklessly chop off a prisoner without knowing it's identity. I mean Tulius could be executing a member of an imperial nobility in disguise as a normal pheasant with his mind set
You could say that he was wise in being so reckless with the execution. Tullius has shown to be against the treaty with the Thalmor, and he is rightly suspicious of their motives and is anticipating an inevitable second war between the empire and the Aldmeri Dominion. So he probably realises that this Civil war in Skyrim must be put down quickly so resources, manpower and infrastructure can be focused for the greater conflict. It wasn't Tullius that was overseeing the processing of prisoners so you shouldn't lay the blame on him but that just goes to show how desperate the situation was, Tullius finally captured Ulfric, and was ready to swiftly end the war and then all of a sudden Elenwen and the Thalmor show up demanding that he stop the execution. This would have only proved his suspicions further, why would they want the execution stopped. He refused them but he technically has no authority to refuse the Thalmor ambassador, not directly anyway, and he knows this, so at this point and knowing the game the Thalmor are probably playing he's thinking "shit, shit, shit, fuck it, it's going to take too long to process all the prisoners before I'm given official instructions, forgot process and just proceed with the executions and may this rebellion be done and over with, I'll worry about my career and family name later" In term's of the Empires interests and and keeping the Thalmor from getting what they want Tullius was very smart here, Alduin just showed up at the crappiest time.
@@rp7784 so in short regarding this endless word of yours.. Tulius is the kind of leader who is willing to leave or even kill his people and family for the empire? So you did prove that Tulius is not that of a great leader. A true great leader will always find ways to save his people whether they are with or against your Ideals. Sorry but your long statement contains very little and weak facts to prove your stance on Tulius as being a wise/decisive leader.
@@Sir_1nu Hmm, this wasn't meant to be a debate, I was just sharing my view point but if you want to act like a child, very well haha. And your comment pretty much summed up how easily you missed certain facts on the ground's of your bias, followed by your petty arrogance on stating my facts as weak when your argument isn't based on fact at all, but pure opinion which is fine but don't say that my statement contains little or weak facts when you have none to stand on, and then go on to misread some point's in my comment 😂 I never said anything about him leaving or killing his family lol, and what do you mean by his people? Incorrect, what determines a true great leader encompasses many factors but a big one is making the hard decisions for the greater good. You say that a great leader should always find a way to save his people whether they are with or against your ideals, there are multiple things wrong with that statement. 1. Tullius is a military commander, he's not the Emperor, his job isn't to hold hands and sing Kumbaya, his job was to quell the rebellion as quickly and efficiently as possible, and that's exactly what he nearly did before Alduin showed up. 2. Speaking of rebellion, how do you save someone who doesn't want to be saved, the Stormcloaks rebelled against the empire, there is no saving, they are at war, and judging by how proud and stubborn the nords can be there was no room for diplomacy despite attempts from the empire. 3. Finding way's to save your people is admirable, it's ideal of course but your being naive at trying to apply that to the circumstances in the game, the options were very limited. So please don't say that the facts in my statement were few and weak because you have only demonstrated morals and opinions which are less concrete, Tullius was pretty smart in not only ambushing and capturing Ulfric in his home territory, but he was also smart in stopping the Thalmor from enacting any suspected ulterior motive and foreseeing the extent of the situation and thus speeding up the execution process, and knowing that diplomacy with the Stormcloaks is impossible his options were limited. Now in regards to your little rant on what makes a good leader, you are correct, but your pointing at the wrong person. You should be throwing that at the emperor, Tullius isn't an emperor, he's a top notch military commander, it's not his job to be nice and morally correct, his job was to put down a rebellion and bring focus back to the bigger upcoming war by any means necessary, he isn't perfect but he is pretty smart and tactical.
@@rp7784 Okay okay so you are saying that Tulius was under pressure of the thalmor that led his rashed decisions to execute to the prisoners regardless of who they were right? But doesn't that contradict your claim of Tulius being a wise Military leader? In regards to the whole leaving the family and people thing.. my only point there was to rebut your claim of Tulius being a wise and decisive leader.. it's exaggerated I know, but you get what I'm saying right? Cus if I'm not mistaken you clearly said that Tulius ignores the whole right, legal and long process because of the thalmor presence putting quite a pressure to him.. but a sharp and wise leader won't get pressured and get rashed decisions just like that under critical and delicate situations like that. Have you seen my point? Your statements has caused me to conclude that Tulius really isn't that good of a Military leader making rashed decisions like that in critical times. I'm sorry but I cannot agree with your statement that "Tulius is a military commander and not an emperor that should properly analyse a problem to make an ethical solution? And just to make it clear the Job of the Military is to defend the people, though you are right it is also the job of the military to fight anything that threatens the government as swiftly as it is possible, however it is not the job of a Military to fight and slaughter its way to achieve its goal, the true job of the military is to make a step by step plan to avoid huge casualties as much as they can and to specifically avoid rashed decisions that might lead to worse circumstances. And in addition I am not dissecting this situation based on the game but rather the lore itself and its possible outcomes in views of the fact that the game has offered very limited options as you have said it yourself. Anyways we have different beliefs and imaginations about the scenarios in this game and there is no way to prove on who is really right or wrong until TES6 comes out or an actual statement from Bethesda is being piblished regarding this scenario. But until then I will remain suspicious of the claimed wise Imperial Commander that is General Tulius
@@Sir_1nu No, pressure comes with the job, and being able to think quickly and come to a decision nearly immediately is key to being effective in leadership especially within combatant situations because you need to be quick, versatile, flexible and effective in getting things done under pressure. And Now your just being ignorant, if you were to go up to a leader and ask them “Have you ever been pressured, have you ever needed to make instant decisions” 9 times out of 10 the answer would be yes and yes, any who say no are lying because being a leader especially a military commander, time is not your friend, you don’t have time to sit down and have a cup of tea to think over your options lol, you are trained and expected to think on your feet, to think of the best outcome as quickly as possible with the solutions you have. I think you need to recalibrate your definition because pressure is inevitable in that job, its how you handle said pressure that defines your ability as a leader and commander, Tullius’s decision was extreme but extremity isn’t a fault if there was no other way, he read the situation and acted decisively to conclude the war as quickly as possible and deny the Thalmor their goal in accordance to his suspicions. Boom, there goes your ignorance again. Military leaders and commanders are expected to make quick decisions under pressure and on the spot, because the nature of their job is all about timing, things happen quickly, and things change very quickly in battle or in between, they are trained to think fast, to see the bigger picture, collateral damage against the greater good and to navigate the situation as quickly and efficiently as possible, you can disagree with the morals, hell I do often, but in this instance I can very clearly see why Tullius did what he did, we can all see it, is he perfect no, but is he a smart commander for seeing through the motives of the Thalmor and not allowing their want’s to come to path, yes because he is doing exactly what he’s supposed to, he sees the bigger threat of the time, he sees the bigger picture, he knows that if he were to keep the execution at a slower rate the Thalmor would have been able to stop the execution hence prolonging the war which is exactly what the Thalmor wants, and is entirely against the empire interest, so he took the only action he could have, and that was to speed up the execution and deny the Thalmor their goals, Have you seen my point??? What? Tullius isn’t an Emperor, he is the military commander lol, this is where your ignorance is playing, your definition of what makes a good leader is more compatible with that of an emperor or a leader under diplomatic or economical circumstances, not military ones, and this is why I have accused you of being bias, because your slapping a broad definition onto something that isn’t compatible, and criticizing a character for not fitting that definition. I like how you are arrogant enough to have written “And just to make it clear” Lol you have nothing to make clear because your definition is very blunt. The purpose of the military is to defend its nations people and interest against external threats, there is no defining factor in how it goes about doing it, now one of the characteristics is indeed to fight, but to slaughter, that is subjective, but in this instance slaughtering did not take place so I am unsure why you decided to state that, this was an execution, not a slaughter. To make a step-by-step plan isn’t a purpose, that’s a work practice lol, its one practice the military can take but that’s if the situation is able to call for it, in this instance it didn’t, the military has many work practices to take into consideration, now, generals and military commanders are expected to make snap decisions under pressure because that is the nature of the job, they don’t have time to sit down and think, they need to make decisions quickly and efficiently. There, I have just made it much clearer for you. Same, However I am basing my views on existing material, dialogue within the game from numerous characters, the writer’s draft material that you can find on the web as well as the lore. Beliefs and imaginations was never the issue here, through this entire debate you’ve had a “I’m right, you’re wrong so nah nah nah nah nah” attitude, and now your saying, “well, nothing can be proved until Bethesda say’s so” lol ok. Look, I agree, you have your views but don’t get defensive and start throwing a tantrum simply because mine differ to yours.
Balgruf was a traitor, the Empire were traitors. All Hail King Wulfric! Tullius should have joined Wulfric, they could have used the Nords against the Thalmor with plausible deniability
It was actually the high Elves that were trying to convince Tulius not to execute Ulfric on the spot at Helgen. You can barely see them arguing as you enter the city on back of the cart. They are using the conflict for their greater purpose and need it to keep going. Alduin appearing is still an open debate. Fate or pure luck? Great video!
Strategic Genius or no I eat him so...
Yes you read well
I really like your video editing structure. Very professional and clean. Hope to see more!
Very interesting, great job!
Seems alright might be some promise for future videos we will have to see.
As me, after more rhan 10 years of playing Skyrim and modding it to .... ?!
I have decided ... NOT TO PLAY any DRAGONBORN-Char, ANY MORE!
With the help of some mods, it is possible enjoy tthe Beauty of this Land, you know ;)
I don't care what anyone say about this guy but one thing I know, a wise and decisive leader won't recklessly chop off a prisoner without knowing it's identity. I mean Tulius could be executing a member of an imperial nobility in disguise as a normal pheasant with his mind set
You could say that he was wise in being so reckless with the execution.
Tullius has shown to be against the treaty with the Thalmor, and he is rightly suspicious of their motives and is anticipating an inevitable second war between the empire and the Aldmeri Dominion. So he probably realises that this Civil war in Skyrim must be put down quickly so resources, manpower and infrastructure can be focused for the greater conflict.
It wasn't Tullius that was overseeing the processing of prisoners so you shouldn't lay the blame on him but that just goes to show how desperate the situation was, Tullius finally captured Ulfric, and was ready to swiftly end the war and then all of a sudden Elenwen and the Thalmor show up demanding that he stop the execution.
This would have only proved his suspicions further, why would they want the execution stopped.
He refused them but he technically has no authority to refuse the Thalmor ambassador, not directly anyway, and he knows this, so at this point and knowing the game the Thalmor are probably playing he's thinking "shit, shit, shit, fuck it, it's going to take too long to process all the prisoners before I'm given official instructions, forgot process and just proceed with the executions and may this rebellion be done and over with, I'll worry about my career and family name later"
In term's of the Empires interests and and keeping the Thalmor from getting what they want Tullius was very smart here, Alduin just showed up at the crappiest time.
@@rp7784 so in short regarding this endless word of yours.. Tulius is the kind of leader who is willing to leave or even kill his people and family for the empire?
So you did prove that Tulius is not that of a great leader. A true great leader will always find ways to save his people whether they are with or against your Ideals.
Sorry but your long statement contains very little and weak facts to prove your stance on Tulius as being a wise/decisive leader.
@@Sir_1nu Hmm, this wasn't meant to be a debate, I was just sharing my view point but if you want to act like a child, very well haha.
And your comment pretty much summed up how easily you missed certain facts on the ground's of your bias, followed by your petty arrogance on stating my facts as weak when your argument isn't based on fact at all, but pure opinion which is fine but don't say that my statement contains little or weak facts when you have none to stand on, and then go on to misread some point's in my comment 😂
I never said anything about him leaving or killing his family lol, and what do you mean by his people?
Incorrect, what determines a true great leader encompasses many factors but a big one is making the hard decisions for the greater good. You say that a great leader should always find a way to save his people whether they are with or against your ideals, there are multiple things wrong with that statement.
1. Tullius is a military commander, he's not the Emperor, his job isn't to hold hands and sing Kumbaya, his job was to quell the rebellion as quickly and efficiently as possible, and that's exactly what he nearly did before Alduin showed up.
2. Speaking of rebellion, how do you save someone who doesn't want to be saved, the Stormcloaks rebelled against the empire, there is no saving, they are at war, and judging by how proud and stubborn the nords can be there was no room for diplomacy despite attempts from the empire.
3. Finding way's to save your people is admirable, it's ideal of course but your being naive at trying to apply that to the circumstances in the game, the options were very limited.
So please don't say that the facts in my statement were few and weak because you have only demonstrated morals and opinions which are less concrete, Tullius was pretty smart in not only ambushing and capturing Ulfric in his home territory, but he was also smart in stopping the Thalmor from enacting any suspected ulterior motive and foreseeing the extent of the situation and thus speeding up the execution process, and knowing that diplomacy with the Stormcloaks is impossible his options were limited.
Now in regards to your little rant on what makes a good leader, you are correct, but your pointing at the wrong person. You should be throwing that at the emperor, Tullius isn't an emperor, he's a top notch military commander, it's not his job to be nice and morally correct, his job was to put down a rebellion and bring focus back to the bigger upcoming war by any means necessary, he isn't perfect but he is pretty smart and tactical.
@@rp7784 Okay okay so you are saying that Tulius was under pressure of the thalmor that led his rashed decisions to execute to the prisoners regardless of who they were right?
But doesn't that contradict your claim of Tulius being a wise Military leader?
In regards to the whole leaving the family and people thing.. my only point there was to rebut your claim of Tulius being a wise and decisive leader.. it's exaggerated I know, but you get what I'm saying right? Cus if I'm not mistaken you clearly said that Tulius ignores the whole right, legal and long process because of the thalmor presence putting quite a pressure to him.. but a sharp and wise leader won't get pressured and get rashed decisions just like that under critical and delicate situations like that.
Have you seen my point? Your statements has caused me to conclude that Tulius really isn't that good of a Military leader making rashed decisions like that in critical times.
I'm sorry but I cannot agree with your statement that "Tulius is a military commander and not an emperor that should properly analyse a problem to make an ethical solution?
And just to make it clear the Job of the Military is to defend the people, though you are right it is also the job of the military to fight anything that threatens the government as swiftly as it is possible, however it is not the job of a Military to fight and slaughter its way to achieve its goal, the true job of the military is to make a step by step plan to avoid huge casualties as much as they can and to specifically avoid rashed decisions that might lead to worse circumstances.
And in addition I am not dissecting this situation based on the game but rather the lore itself and its possible outcomes in views of the fact that the game has offered very limited options as you have said it yourself.
Anyways we have different beliefs and imaginations about the scenarios in this game and there is no way to prove on who is really right or wrong until TES6 comes out or an actual statement from Bethesda is being piblished regarding this scenario. But until then I will remain suspicious of the claimed wise Imperial Commander that is General Tulius
@@Sir_1nu No, pressure comes with the job, and being able to think quickly and come to a decision nearly immediately is key to being effective in leadership especially within combatant situations because you need to be quick, versatile, flexible and effective in getting things done under pressure.
And Now your just being ignorant, if you were to go up to a leader and ask them “Have you ever been pressured, have you ever needed to make instant decisions” 9 times out of 10 the answer would be yes and yes, any who say no are lying because being a leader especially a military commander, time is not your friend, you don’t have time to sit down and have a cup of tea to think over your options lol, you are trained and expected to think on your feet, to think of the best outcome as quickly as possible with the solutions you have. I think you need to recalibrate your definition because pressure is inevitable in that job, its how you handle said pressure that defines your ability as a leader and commander, Tullius’s decision was extreme but extremity isn’t a fault if there was no other way, he read the situation and acted decisively to conclude the war as quickly as possible and deny the Thalmor their goal in accordance to his suspicions.
Boom, there goes your ignorance again. Military leaders and commanders are expected to make quick decisions under pressure and on the spot, because the nature of their job is all about timing, things happen quickly, and things change very quickly in battle or in between, they are trained to think fast, to see the bigger picture, collateral damage against the greater good and to navigate the situation as quickly and efficiently as possible, you can disagree with the morals, hell I do often, but in this instance I can very clearly see why Tullius did what he did, we can all see it, is he perfect no, but is he a smart commander for seeing through the motives of the Thalmor and not allowing their want’s to come to path, yes because he is doing exactly what he’s supposed to, he sees the bigger threat of the time, he sees the bigger picture, he knows that if he were to keep the execution at a slower rate the Thalmor would have been able to stop the execution hence prolonging the war which is exactly what the Thalmor wants, and is entirely against the empire interest, so he took the only action he could have, and that was to speed up the execution and deny the Thalmor their goals, Have you seen my point???
What? Tullius isn’t an Emperor, he is the military commander lol, this is where your ignorance is playing, your definition of what makes a good leader is more compatible with that of an emperor or a leader under diplomatic or economical circumstances, not military ones, and this is why I have accused you of being bias, because your slapping a broad definition onto something that isn’t compatible, and criticizing a character for not fitting that definition.
I like how you are arrogant enough to have written “And just to make it clear” Lol you have nothing to make clear because your definition is very blunt. The purpose of the military is to defend its nations people and interest against external threats, there is no defining factor in how it goes about doing it, now one of the characteristics is indeed to fight, but to slaughter, that is subjective, but in this instance slaughtering did not take place so I am unsure why you decided to state that, this was an execution, not a slaughter. To make a step-by-step plan isn’t a purpose, that’s a work practice lol, its one practice the military can take but that’s if the situation is able to call for it, in this instance it didn’t, the military has many work practices to take into consideration, now, generals and military commanders are expected to make snap decisions under pressure because that is the nature of the job, they don’t have time to sit down and think, they need to make decisions quickly and efficiently. There, I have just made it much clearer for you.
Same, However I am basing my views on existing material, dialogue within the game from numerous characters, the writer’s draft material that you can find on the web as well as the lore.
Beliefs and imaginations was never the issue here, through this entire debate you’ve had a “I’m right, you’re wrong so nah nah nah nah nah” attitude, and now your saying, “well, nothing can be proved until Bethesda say’s so” lol ok. Look, I agree, you have your views but don’t get defensive and start throwing a tantrum simply because mine differ to yours.
warhammer tullius
Balgruf was a traitor, the Empire were traitors. All Hail King Wulfric! Tullius should have joined Wulfric, they could have used the Nords against the Thalmor with plausible deniability
Nice speech, but your kings name is Ulfric. Not Wulfric. 😂
@@highlyopinionated5611don't reason with certain countries fanatics😅 they don't understand logic