Easier Fiber-Reinforced Resin Printing! Stronger and Conductive Resin Prints?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 มี.ค. 2021
- Round 2 of the fiber-reinforced-SLA-resin-prints experiments! This time, I try easier to use materials that I can stir into the resin instead of having to laminate in sheets of continuous woven fiber.
As a bonus, the graphite powder claims to make the resin conductive - if that works, it would open up huge new possibilities with resin 3D prints!
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The graphite bubble color is "structural coloration". Unlike a prism, where white light splits due to changing speed between mediums, here the size of the particles is comparable to the wavelength of light and parallel rays will constructively or destructively interfere causing the light to split. It is like a diffraction grating you might have played around with or a grating wavelength selector in spectroscopy.
1. Excellent and accurate explanation.
2. Your last name is perfect, especially with the high VanderWaal forces at play in graphite.
@@42436freak all my chemistry professors got a kick out of it too
This physicist is glad someone posted a better explanation than because bubbles
I think Steve Mould did a video on this recently...
Is there an explanation of how there seems to be a kind of orientation going on? e.g. 6:45. When mixing different parts of the resin they seem to have a state or common orientation. Or is that just different settling of particles?
I love this kind of experimenting! Also you need to try ceramic resin
Integza, have you tried encasing ceramic resin in sand while kilning it to keep heat equal throughout the part and reduce warp? I have done that with other materials...
THAT TURBO JET WAS SO COOL~!!
cant wait to see the v2, soon people are gonna make homemade jet aircraft lol
Try to hammer some tomatoes with your shock device.
hmmm, i wonder why you want him to test ceramic resin in particular, lol.
@@josephgauthier5018 to make a more powerful engine of course!
Great video. Since inconsistent curing from settlements can weaken a print, we recommend using a thicker, tough resin as the base for this type of experiment. This way, the materials do not settle too quickly, and you have a very strong resin to start to stay functional. Happy to get you some Blu or Tenacious to play.
would you also support him mixing different resins with tenacious to get the ultimate engineering blend?
Thanks for the tips - I'll let you guys know know when I'm back at doing resin experiments!
@@MadeWithLayers So far I go with 30-50% Tenacious in Elegoo ABS-like for impact resistant NERF parts, but that's trial and error.
@@globalrevolution we will be happy to. Blu 70% + Tenacious 30% seemed to create a good balance between impact resistance and hardness
@@sirayatech2 30-40% Tenacious seem to be a good spot
Really liked the cinematics during the break test clips.
Me: Maybe try glitter?
Katelyn: Hey, Evan - hold my beer...
Right
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaam!
"Ham! Ham!"
Give milled fiberglass a try instead of chopped fiber, it looks similar to the cotton you used, its a common filler with composites.
FLOX... pretty easy to mix in too.
Tried it, it makes it weaker too.
@@csakip That's surprising, I wonder if his theory on the micro bubbles and cracks is what's causing it. Maybe in a pressure chamber or something the bubbles would be minimized.
@@Rocketkid2121 I think it would be basically too late after you have already printed the part. You would need it to be in the pressure pot before it becomes cured.
@@shelltoe_soul I agree, I know that wouldn't be super easy to pull off and maybe not worth the effort, but it just seems counterintuitive that the fiber would weaken the print, and that test would possible eliminate bubbles as the culprit. Possibly UV resin doesn't bind well to glass?
In most injection molded parts with glass fiber there is at least 30% fill. Most structural composite layups are at least 50% fiber
I would say with injection molding one can start at 15 to 20%weight. The major difference might be that rather short fibers are used and not large pieces like 3mm long. My understanding is that something like milled fibers (carbon or glass) might work similarly to the way it works in injection molding.
Seems pretty obvious the fibers need some treatment first -- as they are melted and mixed together before the injection mold. Right?
@@gutrali On materials I worked with we bought the pellets already made, you want abs-GF30 you buy abs-GF30 pellets so they are even already mixed during batching ^^ You can mix longer ( a few millimeters) fibers in the barrel but it requires special coatings and geometries as I recall so as to dont break the fibers
@@gutrali fibers like the ones he usess are bonded with styrene, sobthe resin needs to be able to dissolve styrene to be able to soak in to the fibers properly.
I would be interesting to see the LCD replacement process.
I would as well considering I picked up this exact setup today (machine and wash station)
I am excited to see a follow up for the other fiber-reinforced prints
Your cinematic shots have gotten really good. Keep it up!
That was a brilliant test montage! 👍 These experiment videos are so good, they explore concepts I never would have otherwise come across, thank you Tom! 💙💜
Hey man, great video!
If you want to achieve a truly mechanical reinforment of your SLA resin you have to add functionalized fibers/particles. Functionalization of fibers/particles improves the chemical affinity between the fiber/particle and the polymer matrix. You can purchase functionalized fibers/particles ready to use or you can functionalize them yourself (using a silane coupling agent). Cheers
Man, the editing during the testing was A++!
At 8:30.. maybe lock your vat down?
Just what I thought 😂. Layershift incoming.
I saw that too. And have done that too.
@@scruffy3121 no layer shifting, it's not the build plate moving around.
@@RinksRides yeah. Didn't think about that properly. Still can't be good for the display, vat or noise level. Is the fan in the mars Pro 2 as loud as the fan in the mars?
Exactly :-)
Really love the SLA experimenting!
Some one has been watching project farm.
I was waiting for the "We're gonna test that" t shirt to pop out of nowhere.
@Greg Tubby that guy is incredible
I plan on making bushings and gears with graphite. Guides as well. Great video.
I absolutely love graphite powder, I combine with epoxy resins all the time when casting
The best method of reenforcement I've found is likely not what your looking for. But when I need strength, I print with a hole though the part and use an epoxy resin to secure a metal rod inside.
I've printed cycloidal gears with graphite additives, also adding a small amount of flex filament to 10%. Makes for a very strong part that is partially self lubricating and tough. The flex adds more strain relief albeit at the sacrifice of rigidity- but that slight flex is great to make up for the slop and inaccuracy of the print.
Hi Thomas, great job. Your videos are inspirational. Btw, I am a materials eng. Scientist. Is a long time that I don't get into the polimers side, but as you analyzed, add fiber or other materials can deteriorate the properties because a lack o bound between the matrix and the aggregate. It not necessary forms micro cracking around but can help the cracking propagate faster on the aggregate material surface because it's is not properly bounded. Most composites have a mix of polimers or other compounds that helps bound the matrix to the aggregate, same principle of soap and water to remove fat. Let me know if you need more information about it.
Ive been adding stuff to my resin for months.. but you got to remember the way the layers work to get some nice effects for knife handles and models.
I very much appreciate tech creators who also show failures, not just success after success. That's the engineering/scientific process. Good engineers/scientists have a high tolerance for failure, building on it rather than giving up. It is often the failures in pursuit of a goal that create spin-offs enabling entirely new directions and new goals. Such as adding carbon for color and perhaps lubrication, rather than for strength.
The graphite results with regard to visual appearance and potential for self-lubrication are definitely interesting. Worth keeping in mind. Loved the music/stress test montage. You are definitely stepping up your video productions.
self-lubrication would actually be a fairly big deal. 3D printed/integrated bushings and thrust bearings were my first impulse.
One thing to note: Short fibers are useless for strength or structure. However, I believe by adding the short fibers to your resin, it may have a larger impact on ABRASION resistance, than adding strength. Being in custom/restoration/collision for 30 years, when I have to fix an older Corvette door I use the long strand glass mat for structure then a shorter fiber/filler mix to cover any hard edges before applying a finish putty before primer and paint. USC Duraglass, and a product called Fiber-all are basically body fillers with short strand glass fibers pre mixed in. I use them sometimes where chipping might be a problem, like a corner or edge of a door for example, where the panel doesn't line up perfectly to the next panel. Hope this helps. Been subscribed since I bought my Wanhao i3 v1.2 back in 2015 (currently rocking an SKR 1.4 and 2209's), and since have upgraded the poop out of it thanks to more than a few of your videos and tutorials. I have a Mars 2 Pro also and found this video very interesting and educational. Cheers from the USA!
Tom I've been watching you for years. I very much appreciate that you're on the same track I am, for me a particular print that I am trying to make stronger for someone.
Before I saw your video for the last time you added fiberglass I was at the beginning of my adventure and that time the only glass fiber reinforced prints I saw was someone making a shell and then filling with epoxy mixed with glass fibers.
I am very appreciative to see that the first test with glass blankets was not that good in strength. Saved me from the mess.
I had just boughten chopped glass fibers and received them when I came across your video and was like "damn it someone beat me to it".
but I appreciate you going through all the messy stuff and displaying your results saves me a lot of headaches and I just want to say thank you. Also, I never thought of cotton. Brilliant! Also the graphite I want to try now.
thank you for the wealth of knowledge you have shared over many years.
Thanks! Glad you're getting something out of the videos!
When you use fiber glass you better remove the bonding agent with acetone.
I like the music montage of the stress testing. I never cared to watch each and every test. One test filmed to show the procedure, yes, but then cut to the results. Your presentation was very enjoyable to watch. I wish more people would film this way.
Dude, LOVE the editing in the montage for the testing!
Hours and hours spent to make this. Awesome Science-ing. Mind you it has given me clues for resin printing. I was so keen to cut over to Resin printing for the absolute beauty of the outputs, snag is the parts are not tough enough for me.
I really enjoyed watching the video. I can imagine how messy those tests must have been. As this video was recorded two years ago, it would be great to see how the new generation of resins would perform. Without mixing anything additives into them, but mixing resins with each other.
„We're gonna test that!“ Getting strong Project Farm vibes here! 😄
I appreciate you runing all your equipment and free time to hopefully help me avoid doing so as well
I liked this video - seems different than most recent videos to come out recently - was getting tired of everyones printer reviews, thanks mate :)
Thank you Thomas, very informative and enlightening.
Love the test compilation!!
Love it! Please do more resin review videos, we would love to know which resins to buy as there are many confusing products out there.
loved the testing montage
Very cool experiments, thanks for showing your results! My one contribution as someone with a materials science/mechanical engineering background is to remember that there are still more mechanical properties than strength. A lot of times composites represent a tradeoff between stiffness and strength, where you increase the stiffness over the base resin/matrix, but make it more brittle. This would reduce the energy absorbed during impact. With the short fiber systems, though, you tend not to see much increase in strength, particularly at low volume fractions, because you don't have enough load "continuity" for lack of a better word. In long/continuous fiber systems, for example, even when the matrix fails, the fibers can still bear load. Here, there's enough space between fibers that failures can just propagate through. I'd also agree with other comments that improper bonding/wetting between fiber and resin could contribute. Could be interesting to look at in future tests. Doesn't require an electron microscope, just a decent power optical. You can even experiment with the $20 or so digital microscopes to see what kind of images you can get.
Good to see that 5% of Colton made it into a print. :P
Nice methodical approach. I found your videos because I wondered about adding fiber materials to the resin mix to improve strength. I would repeat some of the experiments using "tough resin", which has ground rubber mixed in to reduce the brittleness. Use a squeeze bottle to blow a little milled carbon in the first 5 and last 5 layers. Blowing will confine the carbon to the outside layers while keeping the inner layers almost pure resin. It will create a stronger skin on the outside.
Light is reflected from the outer surface and the inner surface of the bubbles, As the thickness is very thin,there is a difference in the refraction angle and it forms a miniature prism effect. Love the experiment.
Great Video Thomas!
I never tried a resin printer, but I have some experience with glass and carbon fibers.
I think some other fillers could also be interesting. There are for example glas micro balloons with 0,12 g/cm^2 and a particle size of just 65nm to make very light weight components. To reinforce the resin a good try could be to mix milled glas fibre (0,2 mm) and finer cotton flocks (0,35 mm fibre length). Some fumed silica like Aerosil could also help to thicken the resin, that the chopped fibers don't saddle down to the bottom. It looks a bit like, that the chopped fibers in your prints are not completely wetten, normally they should get very transparent in the resin.
interesting experimentations ...great video 👏
I was hoping you'd mention the lubricating effects of resin, glad you said something at the end. It makes me think of oil impregnated bushings. In addition to that, I'm very curious about thermal conductivity of those graphite parts. We messed around with some plastics at work filled with something and I want to say it was graphite. Although they lost flexibility, they had a very "cool to the touch" feel and that's exactly what we were going for. Trying to get thermal transfer improvements through the part.
"We're gonna test that"
My favorite to hear.
Great Video Thomas...you ask about the reason why the filled parts are loosing strength...most fillers in a resin binder system need an additive that allows the resin to bond to the surface of the filler. Otherwise, as you have shown...the properties will suffer. One of the more common families of bonding or coupling agents is silanes from Dow Chemical...depending on the resin, the particular coupling agent is chosen for a particular filler...I formulated 2 part spray-able polyurethanes and polyureas that after leaving the spray gun would be dry to the touch in just seconds. Your other problem is likely you need a Much Higher shearing action of the reinforcing materials far beyond what a magnetic stirrer can provide...they are fine for liquid to liquid mixing, but Do Not really totally wet out the surfaces of the filler to liquid interface. Thus, first you need to find the proper coupling agent for the fiber and polymer, second use a High Speed Disperser, and finally vacuum out all of the air bubbles. Keep up the Great Work!!!
I once made epoxy resin reinforce with carbon nano tubes, in several concentrations, it did not improve the tensile strength but they where more conductive.
I'm close to buying a resin printer and is still learning about them before my purchase.
My main hobby is RC cars/trucks, where we use dry wall to reinforce the body shells, and of course most knows that the higher quality cars always have a composite plastic used.
Maybe this would be your source of information? I have for some time tested parts for a manufacturer and the character of the parts significantly changed depending on direction/amount of fibers used. But the key secret is that the fibers are overlapping so the force can't slip through, but still in a small amount that the parts still have flexibility.
Great videos as always
Thanks you
I work for a National Laboratory and 3 years ago we tried Graphite and/or Iron filings in the resin of a Laser SLA printer to try and see what concentration (if at all) it would take to get conductive/magnetic properties out of a 3d printed part and determined really quickly that at higher concentrations the slurry becomes to tick to work with the printer and at the maximum saturation point that does allow the prints to work the resin acts like an insulator at a microscopic level and simply will not allow a continuous current to run through it.
Dorsnt the fiber impede the curing light from shining through? Especially the carbon I would think would absorb the UV
Yes, this is what limits how opaque 3D printing resins can be, and why a solid black (for example) isn't really possible from what I've seen. You need to get enough light through (say) 50 microns to cure the layer.
@@michaelnoble2432 yes and no, light absorption is also wavelength dependent. However since most use 405nm it's kinda hard to have something that's really dark. There are blacks that are close though and depending on special use cases a very dark resin for a special printer could be made.
This is what I thought. For sure the fibers must screws with the light curing the resin right?
The testing montage is really cool!)
What might be good to try for artistic looks is mica powders. They are used in resin projects but haven't seen in SLA.
I like the visual effect of the graphite. I wonder what it would look like if you were to use some of the pigments that they use in poured resin tables, coasters etc.
Nice video, suprising results! Maybe cleanroom wipes as material? Either chopped up or in layers. Those are a bit like paper towels, but specifically designed to not shed particles and are extremely strong in one direction. So if you criss-cross the layers it might result in a really strong part.
8:30 The vat is moving up and down with the moving platform?! (See corner on the right) Did you forget to tighten the two screws?
Another great video, thanks... a sugestinon is to use microbaloons, (for ligther pieces), a ligther piececould be a great caracteristic depending where is use the part
Interesting, great testing montage btw.
I never did any experiments with resin prints but I have used imbedded needles or piano wire in FDM prints. I guess you could print channels into the parts and and pull long strands of fibres covered in epoxy through these holes. Or even take it further and print a thin walled mould in resin and then fill it with resin and fibres afterwards. The final part would benefit from the shape of the printed part and the more controlled placement of fibres.
great video and surprising results! while watching the whole video i was thinking about the milled carbon fiber im glad you mentioned it. i have exactly that milled carbon fiber and i mix it into the polyurethane resin for casting and i can say it does make the end product stiffer and abit more stronger but for resin printing im not sure what to expect. i also use graphite powder mainly for coloring and like you said its amazing.
Its worth mentioning theres also milled glass fibers just like the milled carbon fiber and it should prob provide more or less the same characteristics. pro side might be better signal penetration if thats what you are dealing with because carbon fiber is notorious for blocking radio signals like bluetooth etc.
I really wanna try to make a continuous fiber laying tool for my doot changer but i'm tired and lazy and doubtful i could get it working, specially with my tools and skill!
BUT THIS IS WHy i love this channel so much :D awesome video!
Ferrous and Nonferrous metal powders are available in various micron sizes. Also, some mica powders glow in the dark and have color shift. It would be really cool to see the properties of copper powder, aluminum powder, silica, ceramic and color shift mica powder.
Lovely video
the colors on graphite bubbles are caused by an effect called *thin film interference* , where basically light passing through the upper and lower part of the bubbles interfere with one another enhancing the reflected light.
Great edditing and nice songs, thanks for the great entertainment
When you start your print hook up a pwm as it prints out so that when it prints out with the graphine/graphite, there will be a line for the electricity to follow
Would be interested to see how Colloidal Silica and glass micro balloons would behave both are used in marine resin layups for fairing and filling. Micro balloons can make almost a foam type part but its quite thick to mix.
You can get kevlar that is similarly fine to that cotton. May be worth a try...
Graphite looks amazing ive been trying glitter and strontium aluminate....the glitter im having issues with it staying suspended and tge strontium is the same but way worse its also like sand so it's abrasive but im having a blast with 3d printing
The colored bubbles look like interference between the light being reflected by the outer and inner surfaces of the bubble's wall, which boost a certain frequency depending on the wall's thickness.
I think the reason why these are visible is that the graphite is accumulating at the interface between resin and air, which makes for a partially reflective surface
Interesting idea for Thomas:
Make replaceable Gibs for a dovetail mill out of graphite infused resin. As the resin is worn away the nodules of graphite can act as dry lube for the mill ways
Excellent testing methodology! Also, really like the high visibility vacuum chamber, please could you add a source?
So, I just watched Tech Ingredients' video on making graphene, and he showed an impressive increase in the bending resistance strength by putting a tiny amount of graphene in some epoxy resin. Of course, one of my first thoughts is if this could be used in UV resin. Would love to see you do a video on this!
Also would be interested to find out if you can align additives along a given access, not so much for cotton and things, but graphite or metallic powders might be doable using a standing magnetic wave.
I'd be really interested in seeing additional testing with both the milled carbon fibre powder you mentioned, as well as a more fine glass particle powder. These are the two materials I've been thinking about testing myself recently, and I feel like have the best chance of improving the material properties in some way. I have personally been interested in these two materials to help improve rigidity more so than ultimate strength, in order to create lightweight, thin, yet rigid and still acceptably durable materials.
Something I've seen on the topic of the glass powder specifically is Formlab's Rigid series of resins(Both their Rigid 10K and 4000), which are claimed to be glass reinforced resin. Specifically for their Rigid 10K, they claim "Simulates stiffness of glass and fiber-filled thermoplastics" and describe it as "This highly glass-filled resin is the stiffest material in our engineering portfolio.". This to me seems to suggest that it's likely just a simple glass powder mix, which also leads me to believe other suitable materials(specifically milled carbon fibre) mixed using a similar method should produce good results.
This along with a strong base resin such as some of the engineering resins from Siraya Tech like Blu, I think could potentially produce some nice results.
Great videos by the way, love them, keep it up :)
I'm excited to see what other tests and videos you create in the future.
I'd love to see a video on adding pigments, inks and glitters just for make resin printing pretty. i was just talking to a friend about the hand made dice she makes and i was like....i should be able to 3d print dice that pretty
Nice Video. I am trying to SLA print with anti static property. So, I was wondering if adding a little bit of graphite will make the parts anti static? Please let me know. Thsnks
Not a materials engineer either, here; but, you can think of what you're doing as creating inclusions in the resin. Inclusions in metal causes the metal to fracture over time in certain conditions. If the particles you are mixing in are larger than the particulate size of the material making up the resin, you may or may not get a good bond. Remember, in fiberglass for example you are working with a woven cloth base that already has strength in and of itself. By incorporating simple fibers, you don't have the strength you tend to get from weave. And if you aren't careful with the resin application, it won't soak through the weave - leaving voids and leading to delamination. Love seeing you do these tests tho. This is the core of the hacker experience - test, experiment, learn. And good to see Siraya Tech chiming in. Though it does make me wonder if approaching this with a fine weave material at each layer or every so many layers would make a difference. Food for thought. Something like silk...
I've heard of alumina bring used as a composite fibre-might be worth a go.
I also recall that carbon fiber has issues sticking to it's matrix material, and transferring the load effectively, and may also be the issue with the fibres you've tried.
Nice exploration though, thanks!
On the colourful bubbles, I think another explanation is that bubbles are just always colourful (from interference on the thin layers) and the dark graphite behind it just provides good contrast.
Have you considered adding longer fibers to a flexible resin like tenacious? Maybe restoring some of the rigidity to the part while not looking the impact resistance?
You can get specific fibres for re-enforcing concrete floors they're chopped fibreglass but single strands, not clumps like you used.
The form 2/3 has a fibre filled resin. I think u need small chopped strands. Large enough to connect or bind resin to increase strength but small enough to mix evenly to stop stress concentration
Kevlar/aramide pulp might be interesting, if it doesn't add strenght it might add some abrasion resistance
From FFF/FDM composites generally reduce strength with rigid materials but with material like nylon it changes the strength in a different way. I'd be curious to see the behaviours with flexible resins with composites
Have you tried heat soaking any parts? Form Labs has a process to do that. It supposedly allows the bonds to increase from migration and post curing of semi cured resin.
After seeing a lot videos on the ceramic resin thats available I got really interested in different additives to resin and theres not a lot of info that I could find on them for 3d printer resins. Some stuff I wanted to try was Titanium Dioxide and Aluminum Oxide but haven't bit the bullet to buy some yet. I want a sort of custom janky sanding block shape, but also to just see how it prints and what kind of feeling it gives the prints.
I have an idea for the lowering in impact resistance - in cast iron there's two kinds, one where the graphite has a lamellar shape and one where it has a spherical shape (GJL and GJS). The one with lamellar graphite has a lower impact resistance due to "inner notch effect". Around the lamellar shapes you have a lot of "notches" and sharp corners that are a great start for cracks to form. Essentially a tiny predetermined breaking point. I'd expect the effect to be similar when having particles in the resin.
Very interesting. Thank you. Do you have the reference of your vacuum chamber and pump?
Metal Powders would be interesting to try!
Not sure if it's been mentioned. I use resin as a filler/primer by mixing it with sodium bicarbonate, about 40/60 and it helps the resin thicker and stays suspend quite well. It could help hold the heavier filler/additives.
For aesthetics Venta black would be interesting.
Hexagonal Boron Nitride for its dry lubrication property. Cubic Boron Nitride for abrasion resistance.
Dendritic Copper might work for conductivity, both electrical and thermal.
I would be very interested to see what the milled carbon fiber powder and resin mix would do to the strength of the part
Hi Thomas - you should try silica fume: very very small silica particles. Used in concrete to make it much stronger
for your conductivity testing you might need an insulation tester or mega as and electrician we use then to test circuit for possible faults bad connections etc, since a mutlimeter only outputs about .6v dc but something like my tester has 250v, 500v and 1000v options for testing
I'd love to see the results from adding a magnetic powder like toner to maybe make it magnetic.
oxide layers on the bubble often have a colorful look.
The glass fibers are clumped together because they're coated in something called a sizing agent. Sizing agents are essentially coatings that cover the fibers. Because glass fibers are chemically inert they will not bond with any kind of resin or epoxy matrix. These sizing agents have two fold benefits, they allow for this chemical bridge (aka a coupling agent, for glass fibers it's typically a silane) to bond to matrices and add a protective layer to the outside of the fibers for easier handling. They also bond the fibers together, that's why its so hard to pull the individual fibers apart, they're essentially glued together. That being said you can just sonicate the fibers to loosen and separate them.
this was aswome !! but I'm wondering if particle size may be a factor , smaller finer particle may be better at floating in the material with out settling , maybe if you got finer composit powders it would work better, also the Prusa SL1 has a bed that moves this maybe help with shaking the material so the particles don't settle . woul love to see another set of graphite tests with differing powder finess (superfine)
12:55 didn't expect the sound there and it made me jump out of surprise.
I wonder if the graphite changes the thermal conductivity properties of the base resin. Perhaps in high friction interfaces the heat produced might be able to spread through the part more quickly, away from the point of friction.