Can We Recycle 3D Printing Alcohol?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 พ.ค. 2024
- What if you had an unlimited supply of alcohol? We use a lot of alcohol (isopropyl, IPA, or denatured) in resin 3d printing, specifically to clean parts. And what do you do with it after its dirty with resin? In this video I try out a ceramic gravity filter to see if it can clean alcohol so we can reuse it. I had mixed results. Is it worth the hassle? Tell me what you think in the comments.
Thanks to Phodontist for letting me borrow his idea. Go check out the video that gave me the idea and give it a like: • DIY Gravity Filter for...
That article in Slate about prohibition and why we have denatured alcohol: slate.com/technology/2010/02/...
FYI I do get a small affiliate comission when you buy products using my links. And I really appreciate the support.
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But his are taller and probably you need a bigger bucket and to run more alcohol through each time. You can probably use any ceramic filter.
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I've done both distilling and filtering. They are both a pain. Distilling is faster but is a fire hazard. Odor is worse for distilling as well. I broke the thermal sensor on two different distillers before the first gallon. Both methods are messy as well.
Thanks fo commenting. Yeah that is sort of what I got from it. But I’m going to keep trying the filtering to see if I can get a system that isn’t too bad.
I've been using a distiller for months now. It has already saved me the money I paid for it by three times the price I pay for denatured alcohol. I distill my alcohol out in my back yard away from everything. I've had 0 issues. And cleanup hasn't been a hassle either. Due to the stainless steel basin of my distiller.
@@VictorLaster i also just use a distiller i just use it outside. it has worked fine for me so far
@@Nerdtronic can I suggest you try switching to bioethanol, I've been using it for years as camping stove fuel and as a cleaner. In the UK our denatured alcohol (methylated spirits) must contain no more than 9.5% of the highly toxic methanol,, 5% if industrial, in the US it's not so. Have a look at the safety data sheet for that stuff you are using, it can be as much as 50% poison, bioethanol fuel is much cleaner and smells sweet, also it's not a petrol product unlike denatured alcohol and IPA. Ethanol is also slightly safer on the skin than IPA, methanol is not safe at all on the skin.
As a person with a background in lab tech, i'd not hesitate to distill the alcohol off. With the right setup it's safe enough.
Tall thin containers are good for letting the particulates and heavier liquid resin settle to the bottom quickly. Once the resin has settled to the bottom of the container (leave it for 24 hours or longer) expose it to UV light and then *carefully* decant the clean alcohol off the top. It'll look like you're leaving a lot behind (and you are) but the amount you salvage is worth it once you consider the time spent.
Cold temperatures are also great for different substances to settle in a stable way based on density. I use this for brewing, however not sure how it works for plastic polymers.
I enjoy your videos. A bit of background info on myself: I currently work for BASF. Prior to that I was a Combat Engineer. So, chemicals and explosives is kind of my calling (so to speak). A 3 stage filtration system would be a little more efficient for removing IPA/DenAl from your resin slurry. An additive for encapsulation or covalent bond would help pull the larger resin particles out. Something like charcoal would be the most cost effective route. Also, AGITATION in the 1st stage would be a MUST. I would steer clear of a bubbler/fluidizer, unless you plan on using an inert gas like nitrogen or argon, etc. Adding atmospheric air adds oxygen. And if you know anything about the "Fire Triangle", you DO NOT want to add O-2 to something that is already flammable. Slow, mechanical agitation would be the best bet. However, that costs more $ for that equipment. Unless you have kids at home who need a new chore.
Now, as far as distilling goes: I've been using a distiller for 2+ years now. The very same that you spoke of in the beginning of this video. The particular model that I have is programmable. It is a feature that is absolutely necessary for nothing other than safety's sake for those who are looking into distilling their cleaning solvent with one of these machines. Both basic models and ones that are programmable state that they have an "Auto Shut-off Feature" that will turn the heating element off once the distiller is empty. DO NOT RELY on this feature. It's basically the same type of sensor that detects thermal runaway on an FDM printer. While autoignition of alcohol is 750F, I'm not willing to tempt it. At the least, a timer is ESSENTIAL. 45m to an hour for 4L is enough to distill the majority and still leave a liquid slurry in the bottom the the vessel. Put it into a bucket, leave the lid off and let the sun vaporize the rest. Another reason to not use the auto shut-off feature is because the machine will basically cook the remaining resin and you'll end up having to scrape a terrible smelling, rock hard resin pizza crust out of the bottom of the machine. I always use the distiller outside or just inside my garage with the door open and a fan blowing the fumes out. Not necessarily due to fire hazards, but because the fumes are TERRIBLE. I can absolutely understand your concern with using a distiller. I did a lot of reading on different ones and their feature before I decided to go this route. The 2 main factors that helped my decision was that 1. the model that I bought is a closed system (during the heating process all the way until the condensate drain) and 2. it is programmable and has a timer. A bit of knowledge and common sense go a looong way. Having a background in chemicals also helps. But then again, there are people out there who still believe that the world is flat.
This comment is just as interesting as the video itself, thanks for sharing :)
You should post a link to that bad boy
uh oh we got a globetard over here ;)
Good info! Thank you. I agree, a link would be great.
@@johngwinner9941 link posted.
As a retired kitchen worker, let me sing the praises of the humble 5-gallon pickle bucket. The weight of the plastic is such that it is frequently used to construct armor for reenactment sorts. The lids have a gasket and clamping system that will last for many, many re-uses.
You really need to let the resin set first, then pour out that relatively clean part, let it set again, pour out, expose it to the sun to let the rest of the resin to polymerize, then you can filter it relatively easily. Tried it, it works, amount of waiting time is painful though.
Yes I was thinking I probably could have saved the bad batch by pouring it off and filtering it first. Then curing in the sun. Then filtering it again through my 2nd pass filter.
Would a centrifuge type thingy help?
@@VagabondTE it could, but waiting is good enough. I use a lot of IPA anyway, and buying 5l cans of 99% stuff works best.
@@cthulpiss lol yea.. As I always say, no need for a wifi hammer.
hot water mix with dishwash soap and windex for an hour.. your welcome!
Thanks for testing this. Side note denatured alcohol and isopropyl alcohol are two different molecules. The term rubbing alcohol can refer to either. Denatured alcohol is ethyl alcohol that is poisoned, usually with methanol. Thought I would point that out since you use all the above terms interchangeably and I got confused.
Your comment is way too far down the list. One other thing that bothered me about his descriptions is that isopropyl alcohol isn't poisoned, it is itself poison. Ethanol is the only alcohol that is 'safe' for humans to drink.
Seconded this. There are three alcohols: methanol (extremely poisonous), ethanol (drinking kind, mildly poisonous), and propanol (two kinds, one is "iso" which is IPA/rubbing alchohol, and fairly poisonous). "Denatured alcohol" is ethanol (drinking kind) with stuff added which is very difficult to remove and makes it more poisonous.
When I say it can't be removed, it's probably an azeotrope, so it can't be removed by distilling at all. The same way ethanol can't be distilled below 4% water, and IPA can't be distilled less than 13% water because of azeotropes.
I just made a big post about this too; truly confusing, especially when he starts taking about prohibition which had nothing to do with isopropyl alcohol. But then I noticed him using Kleen Strip and it doesn't even contain IPA. He's not cleaning his parts with IPA at all. So why is he even talking about IPA?
Oh no! He's mixing them together because he doesn't seem to realize that alcohol is a generic term and not the name of a compound. I hope his ignorance of chemicals never leads him to mix sodium hypochlorite and ammonia.
Such a fantastic video. I have buckets of IPA sitting in my closet for a few months now. For sure should try this. Also refuse to use a distiller. Seems like a massive fire Hazzard.
Thanks! Yeah after your near miss with the ultrasonic cleaner I’m sure you’re as paranoid about fire as I am.
Just take a UV light to it and cure whats floating in it. Depending on how thick the resin is it may take a bit and a few times stiring it up. After just let it sit for a day and all the cured resin will sink and become a shick goop. Then just filter it out. I do this with all my alc though I clean mine this way after I'm done for the day. Cure the alc for like 10 minutes then let it sit over night, filter next day. I never let it get that bad. Then it just becomes a waste :/
If you've got the space, you can simply use a distiller outside. Others have pointed out that they do this, and it works well.
Aside from keeping an eye on it, I think I'd unplug the extension cord and wait for it to cool down before approaching it, just in case.
Distillery may be a fire hazard but it is also how alcohol is made... So it is hard to say how safe re-distilling denatured alcohol... So I'm glad to see a less dangerous method to filter out the resin.
You should NEVER use a distiller for IPA. IPA can form peroxides after a while by reacting with air, or by exposure to light, which can explode when you heat the IPA.
I almost always use a spray of solvent to clean parts rather than a dunk. A spray bottle works fine but my Iwata paint gun is even better. It is bigger than an airbrush but smaller than a regular paint sprayer. Does an excellent job of spraying solvents. Paper towels sop up the alcohol. The waste is minimal and clean up is easy and simple.
👍🏻 I like the dunk method. I feel like an extra dunk in clean alcohol really gets the part clean.
Which Iwata are you using? All the models I found, and there are a ton, are full-sizze. Thanks in advance!
@@MakerMeraki It’s an old model, an RG-2. from pictures on the Internet it looks similar to the current model RG-3. It’s not as small as an airbrush but it’s quite a bit smaller than my full-sized guns.
@@RobertTolone thank you! 👍
I do this as well after first sopping up surface resin with a small paper towel. You save yourself so much hassle by removing as much resin as possible before the bath. I finish with an alcohol bath with a smaller insert in the ultrasonic cleaner. @Nerdtronic After curing the contaminated alcohol, you can just shake the sealed container to break up the scoby. It will settle to the bottom relatively quickly, and makes the first phase of filtration easier.
I love that you really dedicated a year between this video and your most recent!!! Seriously keep it up and so looking forward to the next one!
As somebody who reprocesses alcohol by putting it under the same UV cure light I use for my resin parts and then filtering it through what you described as a paint filter, it's impressive seeing how this high level of filtration is able to get you perfectly clear looking alcohol. Curing out disolved or suspended resin and using the 'paint filter' to catch that solid material still leaves my alcohol with an increasingly strong color to it as it continues to be reprocessed, and that's been a bit of a disappointment. I think what's happening for me is that resin has pigmentation particles suspended in the mixture of polymers and photoreactive molecules. As the polymers interlock within the standard resin mixture, they 'capture' the pigmentation particles within a cage of interlocked polymer bonds. However, once resin and alcohol is mixed, the carefully engineered molecular mixture gets totally dispersed in the alcohol. It does seem photoreactive components are still able to promote some bonding between polymers even when they're all interspersed in a sea of alcohol, but this bonding definitely isn't 'caging' the pigments anymore. The pigmentation particles themselves don't react to the UV light at all (which they shouldn't) and are too small to be captured by the 'paint filter', so my own reprocessing workflow just doesn't have any effect on them. What you're really up against trying to get that perfectly clear looking alcohol is getting a fine enough particulate filtration that you are able to filter out the pigmentation particles especially, although there may be some color cast to other magical ingredients in the resin mixture that might promote bonding/stability/etc but, like the pigments, fail to get compeletly captured in the polymer bonds when everything is super interspersed in alcohol. Honestly wouldn't have thought of it if I didn't see this video, though. Thanks!
For the 3 bucket system, you could fill the top bucket with loose activated charcoal as the first pass filter, then double up the ceramic filters for the second stage
Good ideas
Just about to jump down this rabbit hole. Thank you for the great info
This is an awesome path forward for both saving some money and reusing material. Thanks!
Your channel is getting traction and the success by now that you deserve.
Your are still one of the coolest guys in this maker department… Thanks a lot ;-)
I played around a bit with UV polymerisation during my PhD and early research career so have a bit of background in this (as well being a chemical engineer for over 20 years with lots of varying experience across a number of industries!). I think if you stir the alcohol/resin mixture whilst exposing it to UV it will more likely form smaller discrete particles rather than snotty gloop. Continuous stirring should allow the alcohol and polymerised resin to separate regardless and more resin to polymerise by continually turning over the jar's contents to expose all of it to UV. You could use a paint stirrer on a pillar drill to agitate or a lab magnetic stirrer or as someone suggested, aquarium air stones. Note air stones might also lift the polymer out of solution by the processes of flocculation/flotation if done right (Possibly as a separate step - you can push air through your ceramic filter in reverse to achieve this - also a great way to backflush your filter). Stirring up your filter bucket will also reduce the gelling on the filter and speed up the filtration. Reducing the amount of UV light the mixture is exposed to at any one time will likely reduce the reaction rate of the polymerisation which may or may not help avoid the snotting depending on the type of polymer. Good luck!
Would a floculating helper work? Like kitty litter?
Or maybe strobing a UV light? Make small solids, floculate them, settle, repeat?
@@KaletheQuick worth a try on all those points. Cat litter could take out odours too. Could just use a funnel of litter to trickle the reacted wash through, would work like a sand filter.
I feel like not letting the alcohol you're working with get so loaded up it turns into snot is probably the best first step. Have enough volume around that you're not working with a completely opaque solution, so that you can expose it so it DOES settle out is IMO the best first step to keeping clean alcohol, or at least alcohol you can filter.
I agree, but also what about centripetal separation? If the mixture is let set in the sun with a medium speed stirrer, could the solids be separated if spun out?
@@saddle1940 it would depend on the relative density of the alcohol and the resin particles/snot as to whether a centrifuge works. If they separate under normal gravity settling, even over a long period of time then yes, a centrifuge would work.
You need to do fractional distillation, the same process used in the petroleum industry to separate kerosine from gasoline. It uses differential cooling rates via a fraction column to pull off different precipitates based on their boiling points.
Bravo sir! Thank you for sharing your ideas & projects! I'm new to resin printing & I've already went thru 3 gallons of the stinky stuff in less than 2 months! So I'm definitely going to try this! Keep doing what you're doing & thanks again!
Just found your channel, looks like your projects are right up my alley! Subscribed
I think you have a great idea about the double filtration. The only thing I think will help would be to have a filter that only gets the big stuff at the top, something like a fuel filter would probably work better. Then the ceramic filter would get the little stuff,
I used a filter method with cotton wicking and activated carbon
After a couple passes (replacing at least the cotton each pass) it went from gray cloudy to almost fully clear
Thanks for this! Will be trying this out in the future for sure.
really like this video, keep up the great work man! it's cool to see someone share their passions with the internet
Would there be any value in running it through a simple sand filter first?
Also maybe you could speed thing up a bit by creating a vacuum in the collection bucket.
I think you are on to something with the two-stage filter, but I'd also recommend adding a "pre-filter" stage using a coffee filter or similar to take out the big chunks before it hits your 0.5 micron filter stack.
For the clogging that occurs, you might be able to rig up a stirring mechanism or similar to keep the liquid moving. Not sure if it would help the clogging or not but might be worth a try with a cheap hobby motor and some 3D printed paddles. Just use a long shaft so the motor is well away from the alcohol.
Putting the Filters on a turn table or Potters wheel may help get the particles to settle toward the outside edges while the lighter alcohol goes into the filter. Obviously this pseudo centrifuge might take some tweeking to get the proper speed . Too fast and no alcohol even hits the filter too slow and the particulate isn't drawn outward.
Heres what I think. Prefilter with a paint filter/coffee filter into bucket 1. Bucket 1 has a 0.5 filter on it. Bucket 1 also has one of those magnetic stirrers so there is never a danger of a spark and the dirty IPA is agitated and less likely to clog the filter. Bucket 2 is 0.3 and the mag stir is optional. Bucket 3 has a tap installed so you can easily extract without taking the whole thing appart.
The graphics and animations that you use to explain the process are absolutely beautiful
I know this is from a year ago, but to help your system you just need multi-stage filtering. Make a stack of 4 or 6 buckets with increasingly fine filters as you go down. This should help prevent clogs as well.
All that said, doing proper lab distillation with borosilicate glassware would probably cost 200 bucks up front in equipment and have almost no continual cost. You can let it sit in jars like you do now, then put it through a coffee filter and into a separatory funnel. The funnel will separate out a bit more of the solids over a few hours. Drain the resin off into a container, then drain the remaining alcohol into a round flat bottomed distillation flask. Put the flask on an electric hotplate with a magnetic stirrer and connect a distillation tube and a capture flask. Properly connected, this whole system is completely sealed and no vapor will escape. Control the hot plate temp so its around 82C, enough to boil the alcohol but not the water or resin. After running through the flask, you should have nearly pure alcohol.
Isopropyl is chemically different than ethanol. The isopropyl is very "branchy" like a tree branch which is a bit different than ethanol. This difference prevents the enzyme in our body from being able to metabolize. Methanol gets turned into formaldehyde in the body and that's what causes the most damage.
But great video, You can also do something called "salting" out things that are dissolved in a liquid. I have had some decent luck with salting the alcohol first but I was running into issues of removing the salt without a distillation (I am also concerned with heating a very flammable solution.) These filters may be the answer so thank you for the advice.
Good info. Thanks for watching.
Love your vids. I can say however that using a purpose built alcohol distiller like you showed in the beginning of the video works REALLY well. I run mine outside and it goes through about 4L in about 40 mins with very little loss. The trick is to make sure the silicone seal makes good contact. I will say that it is pretty darn safe but you still want to do it outside.
It’s probably pretty safe to do, especially outside. I think there is a decent seal with the lid keeping the vapors inside. I just am not comfortable doing it.
@@Nerdtronic I completely understand, it's certainly not without risk.
Great video and tip. I am considering this technique.
SUBED! Thanks for this, really useful and a good history lesson.
I found the best thing was to use a UV torch to shine an intense spot on top of the liquid to polymerise the resin (if the UV goes through glass the resin sets on the glass and quite quickly blocks UV transmission). It also helps make the resin formed into tiny particles rather than mucousy sheets. It looks quite cool, almost a sort of roiling look where the UV spot hits it. Once done until there is no more movement, allow to settle, and then filter through filter paper. It's good enough for a first wash tank at this point. The settled gunk can be thrown away.
Hi ! I would like to try, could you tell me what is the reference of your torch ?
@@Disc0rd83 blue laser pointer.
I tend to use 99.9 isopropynol and purify it be putting it out in the sun in a closed container for a while to cure. I have to shake them or take a silicone spatula to scrape the sides every so often depending on the size container I'm using. After a lot of it is cured out, I bring it inside and let it settle to the bottom for a while. I can then pour most of it off the top and then through a coffee filter. I deal with a lot of the "mucus" you described, but I managed to reclaim ~80% of my alcohol. I do a lot of printing across multiple machines and will clean my alcohol every couple days (so every 7-10 build plates full on a Photon Mono X) with pretty good results. I keep enough alcohol to have 2-3 batches rotating through being in use, settling, or curing in the sun at any given time.
After seeing your results, I may have to look into how much I would gain from using a more extensive filtering process.
Thanks for the comments Dana. I think there's a process in here still that could work. I need to do more experimenting.
Great video! I'm just getting started and this is great info to have - before I waste a bunch of IPA. Thank you.
Thank you for the awesome video this was very helpful info for this Noob Ive been resin printing for a few months now.
Another possibility: Make a simple solar still. Take your two bucket lids and run a wide tube/hose between them (sealed to the lids). Take one bucket with the dirty alcohol and wrap it in black plastic (or similar) and leave it in the sun. Take the other bucket and put it in the shade or - better yet - have it sitting in the ground (the bigger the temperature differential the better). It won't be fast, but over time you will accumulate distilled alcohol in the cooler bucket and the system will never heat up anywhere near combustion temperature so there's no fire risk. If the bucket lids seal well, there'll be no smell either. All you need to do is keep putting the dirty alcohol into the black bucket and emptying the clean alcohol from the cooler bucket.
Wouldn't it be better to use a clear bucket so the UV-Radiation can cure the dissolved resin, so it can be easyly disposed?
@@Talashaoriginal bucket needs to be black to heat in the sun
@@davidrobinson1729 No water is already good in absorbing heat.
@@Talashaoriginal you dont need to solidify the resin, and worse it could be stuck to the distilling container. Pour it into something after distilling to cure and throw out.
Extra note, I used a mix of sand and charcoal powder (raw) in a 2ltr bottle and had some horrifically bad alcohol go through it and come out okay. SO it might be a better idea to do 1 filter with a light packing of that around the filter to act as a kind of... pre-filter... filter :)
Interesting
You could layer pool filter sand and diatomaceous Earth over the top of the 1st filter with the carbon.
For real though. Solid history lesson. Thanks for the info on prohibition.
This is a bless of a video. Excellent channel, excellent host!
hmm.. since the issue is particulates, I'm wondering if a flocculant would be cheaper. A 5-pound container of pool flocculant is about the same price as your filters and can clarify 20,000 gallons of water. 10 grams of bentonite can clarify 5 gallons, and about 4 kg of bentonite can be had on Amazon for about $30. That's enough to do 2000 gallons and I know for certain it won't hurt the alcohol since it's used in wine making.
I think the bigger benefit of flocculants is that you could clarify every container you have all at once. The down side is you'd almost certainly introduce a little water, at least with the bentonite.
Interesting idea.
th-cam.com/video/HxT8rEr-tFI/w-d-xo.html - They use Aluminum Sulfate to do what I think you're talking about. They say it works pretty well, though the commenters are skeptical (I haven't been able to try it yet).
I feel like there's a process to clean the really nasty stuff with a combination of clarifying, curing, and filtering. I'll definitely be building a ceramic filter rig, though...
I found this very interesting, good work.
Was looking for Nerdrotic and found this awesome channel, man amazing!
It seems to me that you couldn't simply run alcohol through filters and actually remove all, or most, the resin. Sure the particulates settle after a time, but their is still resin in suspension in the alcohol. The proof of that is that setting it in the sun will kick the alcohol and start the "sludging" process. Filtering after that, if there is still clear alcohol in the container, is then OK. This is what I have done many times. For proof this method works, I would like to see one more step tried: Put the completely filtered alcohol in the sun and see if it kicks and any of it turns to sludge. If it does not, I may trust this method. How about it, can you try this next step and see if there truly is any resin left in suspension in your final clear alcohol? Very Kurious in Kentucky.
Yeah I might need to make a follow up video and try again with a modified system.
You will never stop the resin with a filter... at least not this kind. It's like trying to filter out sugar or salt of water with a screen, just ain't gonna work. You need to remove it by curing it, or distilling it into its fractional components.
@@kleetus92 or you can try with reverse osmosis
@@hansrojas9487 Maybe, but I'm not sure it would be worth it... And I say that because while yes it's a polar solvent, the material resin that gets left behind would clog the filter and never be rechargable... so it would be a one and done use... and a lot more expensive than just buying more isopropanol. I also believe it would take a unique filter, not just the ones used for drinking water, so again the cost goes up.
Would love a follow up video on this after using it for a while!
I'm sure dirty alcohol is far tougher on the filters than their intended use.
I think I’ll be doing a follow up - someday.
@@Nerdtronic How's that follow-up video coming? I set up the same system and the filters I got from your link, didn't even let the new alcohol through, so I'm looking for another method.
@@joshallred9330 you got scammed
This was a really informative video!
Great video! Very helpful!
Any chance you can produce a followup video with your triple bucket system?
How much of a pain was it to clean the filter? At what point is the filter so gunked up you have to replace it? When you replace, what has to be done to the filter to prep it for safe disposal?
I recently came across a video by Makers Mashup about using Aluminum Sulfate to remove resin particulate from solution. Maybe try using that as the first step then filtering after. Would be really interesting to see your thoughts on it.
th-cam.com/video/HxT8rEr-tFI/w-d-xo.html
What I typically do is I typically pour my used alcohol into disposable plastic bottles every couple prints, never letting it get that dirty. I set them on the window sill to settle and cure and then pour the alcohol through a coffee filter. Typically one 500ml bottle full of used alcohol will use one coffee filter before it's too clogged to be used quickly.
It doesn't get the alcohol perfectly clean, but it does help a significant amount and doesn't take that long to filter.
I too was thinking of a simple coffee filter system. sure it doesnt get it perfectly clean but... A couple times through a pass with one filter then the second pass with a double filter. clean enough for me.
Also cleaning in two or even three stages helps. My first container is quite dirty but the second one is still in pretty good shape.
I'm trained as a chemist. Fuel+oxidizer+ "open flame" = bad outcome!. But using an electrically heated distillation unit is about as safe as it gets. The end product is no more / no less dangerous than it was before distillation). I don't smoke. I wouldn't do this around open flames. Distillation is the only practical way to accomplish what you're trying to do. Any yes, that's what we would do in a lab to purify alcohol.
If you really wanted to reduce the risk, lower the distillation temperature by distilling under vacuum.
(NB: the water content will NOT stay the same (it will reduce with each run) until you reach ~95% alcohol. At this point, alcohol and water form an azeotrope. You can get it to 100%, but it's beyond the scope of this discussion)
I loved the history lesson, thank you! I love learning why things are the way they are when they don't make sense.
Thanks. I’ve been told that I was wrong about isopropyl having poisons added. It’s denatured / poisonous without adding anything.
I like the idea of adding stages. I guess the nice thing about stacking a 3rd or more stage of filtration is that it really shouldn’t take much longer to do the whole batch.
And if cheaper, more corse filters were used at the top it might make those at the bottom last longer.
I think the order of things might put a kink in that idea. I think my really dirty jar I maybe could have salvaged if I had filtered, then cured in the sun, then filtered again.
The 'mucous' is a spongy suspension, if it is squeezed in a filter bag , the alcohol is released. I found this still had a lot of dissolved resin in it and required another exposure and filter pass.
I tried a vacuum still instead of higher temperature boiling , but the phase change method is far too costly , unless it could be done this a solar still of some type.
I'm also fine the smell of ipa offensive, worse than resin by far.
@AndrewSM I just used a cotton cloth and gathered the edges together and squeezed. If one had a lot to do ,then a similar cloth in a cider press might do the trick.
@AndrewSM yes that would probably work
I love watching your channel. The video on supports is required viewing in my 3d intro course for dentists. What an honor to get a prominent mention.
Thanks and you’re welcome. Your video popped up in my feed about a month ago and I knew I had to try it.
If it wasn't for your very helpful video, I would have tried all of that myself.
Thanks!
Rubbing alcohol was never drinkable, its isopropyl alcohol not ethyl so its not "denatured" at all. Its just inherently poisonous like methyl alcohol and its smell is also inherent in its nature, not an additive to make it non-drinkable. So your attempt to filter out the smell is bound to fail and the fact you thought it smelled "only slightly better" after filtration either was placebo effect or it absorbed moisture from the air and became less volatile because of that. It does not take Walter White to understand there are different alcohols that are inherently non-drinkable and smell different from one another.
Also with proper distillation techniques you CAN separate out the ethanol (drinkable alcohol) from the adulterants that make it poisonous. Considering that nearly all fermentation leads to some methyl alcohol in the mix the distillation of fermented mash results in various "cuts" which based on the temperature of vaporization contain mostly methyl alcohol, mostly ethanol, and mostly water. The "heads" or "leads" being mostly methanol are discarded the tails at the end of the run mostly water are either discarded or added back into the main cut to lower its proof. Again Walter White need not be present, perhaps Popcorn Sutton (rest his soul) would be a better reference for the topic at hand.
Great info. Wasn’t aware.
The "Baby Puke" stuff (at about 9:00 minutes in) might filter well if you first liquify the gel in a blender. This might break up the polymer matrix and make it so you can dilute the liquified slurry with a little more alcohol, then use Alum or some other flocculent to help precipitate out the cured resin.
Salad spinner!
Great tutorial and thank you for the tip. Your right about it being VERY SLOOOOOOW.
Thumbs up icon. Yeah it's pretty slow. I was trying to think of an easy way to add pressure because that would speed it up.
Great video. You could use a Peristaltic pump with a 3D printed float attached at the end of a silicone tube to transfer the dirty alcohol to the filter setup (prevents from disturbing the mixture with the settled resin bits).
Maybe i am dense, but what i do with my alcohol is expose it to UV light and than filter it with paint filters. The resin is cured( clumped) and than the filter removes it. Simple, cheap, and seems to work. What am i missing here?
I'm guessing that like me, you filter it before it gets as contaminated as the alcohol @Nerdtronic is trying to recover.
I think that's the key. Filter it regularly and don't wait until it's a thick cloudy mess.
Or maybe the Methanol/denatured alcohol acts differently on resins than IPA? I've only ever used IPA.
@@ausfoodgarden I use IPA and expose it to UV after most uses. I filter it every so often, which causes the resin to coagulate. I than filter that out. I get a nice clear IPA from this. Simple.
I use coffee filters after giving it a UV cure. Paint filters just seem to coarse to me and not as cheap as coffee filters.
I also expose my used IPA to Sun and let it alone for some days so the resin go on the bottom and filtration is easier.
The key as someone mentioned is not to wait until your alcohol is so dirty that looks like thinned resin
The filters are probably going to cost more than buying new batches of alcohol. Letting the alcohol sit and settle or accelerating using a coagulant would work. Maybe even try using centrifugal force.
He said it’s cheaper in the video
That’s a really cool time travel suit, I hope to see more of it!
I think you’ll see it again in my upcoming multi-channel collaboration video. 😉
TY for your videos!
For something like this, you might want to try using a centrifuge to settle the resin at the bottom of a container, then draining the sediment from the bottom. Once the large particulates are removed, you could then optionally run the remainder through a filter
Maybe a vacuum filter might do the trick
LOL I came up with the same thought before reading the comments.
thank's for sharing !
I was inspired. I made this with 2 of these filters in 2 different 5 gallon buckets for a total of 4 filters going into a 3rd 5 gallon bucket. The alcohol comes out very clear. Haven't degunked the filters yet, so I'm really looking forward to that. It filters pretty slow, but it does work. However I don't consume huge amounts of alcohol with only one printer, so I'd say if you have lots of printers, you might want more than one setup to be filtering at any given time. It'll still make the money back easily.
Another fantastic video. As a micro business, I have to find ways to reduce costs and alcohol is very expensive. Will give this a try. Thanks!
Good luck. I think the trick will be the order. Settle filter cure filter maybe.
You should add some negative pressure in the buckets to speed up the process.
Also, I would try to make a centrifugal solution to solidify and get rid of that mucus in the curing process. This is what you use in biolabs to sediment stuff like that to the bottom of containers, usually test tubes. If one would build a contraption that rotates bigger jars with the bottom oriented outwards while being flooded with UV light, I' think the cured resin would form a solid cake on the bottom and the alcohol could come out very clean above it. Possibly. Then a pump that pushes that alcohol through a final filter and into a storage jar. Badabim.
Great video. I'm glad TH-cam recommended it! I suggest you make some form of high flow bubbler. It helps keep my filters cleaner longer IMO, but likely adds to some evaporation loss. I just move one around the filter manually to help keep it clean, but be careful of disturbing sediment. Wanted a means to quickly agitate, but the bubbler was the only simple solution i had that didn't take up much space. Also, you need a pretty solid bottom and I suggest you mount the filter up from the floor of the container in relation to the amount of sediment you generally expect to have. Those flexible buckets make it easier to clean. Take apart, set in sun, once cured, flex the plastic to crack resin. I havent come up with a great solution for cleaning and storing the filters. Definitely waiting for it to settle and pouring off what you can helps. I started using a turkey baster to help with that collection process. I small UV blast under bottom helps clot the resin cake. I have also had some luck adding diluted bentonite clay to help get stuff to fall out of suspension and make a harder pack at the bottom. If you add a lot, it can be harder to cure though. I understand the desire to use glass, but getting those cakes out can be a pain. I tried a coffee over the filter with a big zip tie at base. Need to experiment more. I want a way to block anything .05 or bigger and let others through. The .03 clogs very quickly. I have a plan to add those to a third stage. I do not recommend for first stage - have them at second stage right now.
Glad you found my channel. Some really good thought here. Thanks.
Instead of a bubbler, what about an ultrasonic transducer like are used in parts cleaning stations? That would give a lot of agitation without having to cycle air in and out that carries away the alcohol vapour.
Great video !!!
Good video, have you thought about adding air stones to the mix to keep the fluid moving, it might help stop the film settling on the filter so much.
thank for great experiment
You’re welcome!
muchas gracias desde Argentina!!!
As a former moonshiner I would not recommend distilling denatured alcohol. When you are distilling alcohol for drinking the strongest liquor going in the still is around 50% depending on how good your first distilling goes. At that point you still (pun intended) have a lot of water left and the alcohol content in the still decreases.
Even if the denatured alhocol is dirty the alcohol content is still high and with no water to counteract combustion.
I put my alcohol container on my magnetic mixer into my curing box and had it mixing during the curing time. It did not turn to mucus, but stayed granular. I ran it through a paint filter and it caught most of the cured material. Only did the one shot, will try it again, maybe even without the stirring to see if that helps.
Hi, I enjoy watching your informative videos. Why the long hiatus and do you plan on making any more in the future? :)
Not the same thing, but back when I was at the University I used to work on a project where we filtered river sediment. Because the sediment is a mix of sand, mud and silt, using a fine mesh straight away would clog the filter and take forever, so we used different mesh sizes, starting on a 2mm mesh and going until a 0.5mm. I know resin particles are very small, a possible solution to the clogging would be using a larger mesh (or exposing the alcohol to UV for a few minutes, or both) so you remove the bigger particles first.
what is the orange/red bucket you used ? would love to get a link/name and affiliate link
No affiliate. I got it at Ace.
I’ve been doing it for over a year with the distiller you had pictured and 70% ipa and it works fine. No problems or explosions so far. Do it outside and wear ppe. Saved a lot of money when there was a run a ipa for people making hand sanitizer.
The moment you had the chunky Isopropyl, a better solution would have been to vacuum filter. In chemistry that's precisely how you would like to get a precipitate out. For one it does loose some of your solvent but you can filter it much much faster of particulates. If I had to do a fractional distillation, it would definitely be in a vent hood with proper glassware. That Mr.Coffe looking distillation machine that you showed actually gives me anxiety... its meant for water and nothing else. Great video, and great subject. It's great recycling and keeping plastics out of the waste when possible.
I distill my alcohol using a water distiller, you said the water content won't go down but mine is adjustable, I run it below the boiling point of water and it comes out crystal clear and no amount of UV will cause any "mucus" I did modify it though adding lots of extra sealant and an external radiator with fans as the built in coils don't condense nearly all the alcohol like 75% at best. Been doing this for a while without any issues.my whole system is sealed with the exception of a small vent on the collection bottle. No smell in the garage and I can do a gallon in about 2 hours give or take. An adjustable still is a good idea and it runs off a PID controller I added, but even with the stock band controller setting it at 82C works fine.
Such a great video! Ich Love it 😍
I am using the distiller method. It works perfectly fine I am doing it in my garden already cleaned more than 50 liters with it.
I made myself a graduated filtration system or screens and cloths. This was the best I could come up with and worked ok, eventually the alcohol gets slimy though and is trash. Replacing and cleaning filters is a pain and it is massively time consuming for a product that will never be as good as the original. Similar to VOG you can use a 5 or 6 step cleaning process and use the less clean stuff in the earlier steps. This all helps extend the life, but it was tedious and a mess.
In the end I bought an air distiller. It works super quick and the final product is good as new. Though there are some cautionary points for this as well. Need to use the still in a well ventilated area. Need to make sure your seal is good and for an abundance of caution make sure there are no flames around. Taking it outside is a good solution. Also still laws are complicated at best and the presence of it on a property basically gives the ATF and their deputies carte blanche authority to come in search the place should they choose to do so. Nothing about the process is normally illegal as you are not making a drinkable product, but that does not mean you won't have to have that fight in court if for some reason the ATF ends up at your door. Distilling either 99% IPA or denatured works the same and does not reduce the proof of the product. I find that I lose about 10% per run, though don't know how much of that is actually resin volume as I tend to let it go until it annoys me and I think things aren't getting as clean as they should.
Return on investment takes a lot longer on a $200 still than $60 worth of various filter every 6 months, but I have easily recaptured my investment in a year. I am not recommending either just due to legal and safety concerns, but I choose the air still and am happy with my purchase.
I use a similar cleaning system to VOG, only 3 stages instead of more... Works well enough, then I leave the super dirty alcohol/resin mix out in the sun to cure/evaporate. The cured solid mass then goes in the trash.
Hi loved your video. Do you think this idea could work with dirty alcohol ???
Distillation is by far the best, its the method if which you do your distillation. Those all in one water purifiers would not be good, they are not designed for that. I use a glass set that would be used for essential oil distillation. The key is to keep the heat as low as possible. The big downside is the glass you heat with will eventually be ruined, I am currently trying to come up with a way of using something more disposable like a mason jar and possibly a vacuum to reduce the amount of heat needed.
I recommend using a pre filter then a filter/ 2nd filter. Also if you had a small water pump and ran it in a cycle through the filters you might be able to keep the filters from getting clogged.
Oh and in the 2nd filter use some of the already high filtered IPA to act as a flow assist.
Best and safest way whoud be a distilation under partial vacum.
That lowers boiling point, if high enough vacum it can be at just above room temp.
It might be even posible to salvage the left over resin
Question, why not get a wash/cure station?
I watch both your video and the one you linked to. Before I try this how did you clean off the filter itself once it gets gunned up?
Last time i used some clean plastic box and i let it sit closed for about week on sun and the resin nicely catched to walls and alcohol stayed almost clean in middle. I was super happy because i was able to salvage about 4-5l of alcohol which looks mostly clean but i'll get to know that once i print something
you could as a spout to the bottom bucket as well to be able to drain it once its full. that might make it easier and cleaner to transfer once its been filtered.
I would be confortable in distillation, I did with an heating mantle and worked fine. In italy denaturated alchol has no methanol but it is still harsh smelling. Also distilled smells bad.
i use 3 glass containers with sealing lids. one has clean alcohol for final wash. the second is mostly clean for initial wash. the 3rd is the dirty stuff and is stuck in front of a uv light that cures the resin in the alcohol. once the resin is cured in the alcohol i use cheese clothe to filter the mucus out. cheese cloth is coarse but it can be used to squeeze out the majority of the alcohol from the goop. then i run through a coffee filter in a funnel. The alcohol that comes out of the coffee filter is usually clean enough to use for initial wash again. I just keep rotating the containers around and add new alcohol as needed.
have you tried out different filters since making this project? I'd be interest to see a comparison video if so
Very informative
Thanks for watching!
Could cellophane liners be used to help with container cleanup, or would that cause more problems?
I have had my best luck with indirect sunlight. Just like letting the larger particles settle, indirect light creates those larger particles that then fall out of the solution. This will leave me on the first 2 or 3 cleanings fairly clear alcohol. this does take a little time but can be done immediately. I am assuming the yellowing I get is the leftover color from the resins I use. It is imperfect and I use leftover milk jugs for settling then curing the waste resin/mucus. I hope this is usefull.
Have a quick question, I already have one of my containers filled with isopropyl alcohol, also known as rubbing alcohol, high-level medical grade, so it's at 91%.
Since what you're using is denatured alcohol, and since both differ subtly, could I still use both in the same container, or we'll both containers have to be separated out to be labeled properly so that both don't mix?
I've been trying to find like almost everywhere if it's okay to mix of denatured and isopropyl alcohol together in the same container and not get any kind of odd reactions or violent reaction, and everything that I come across is not answering my question
Filtering just creates new resin-contaminated waste items you can't dispose of. When the IPA in my washing station gets oversaturated, I decant it back into bottles and put them on a windowsill. (I don't have a spare UV source for this sort of thing.) Any time I see that the resin has settled, I turn the bottles over a couple times. Depending on the sun, the resin will have completely polymerized out of solution in 1-2 days and settled to the bottom as a solid, not a slimy mess. Then, and only then, is the resin waste safe to dispose of.
you could use aquarium air stones to agitate alcohol by the filter to help with the clogging, they make flexible one to make a ring around the filter.
I've built the three bucket system with two filters each in the top two buckets. The issue I've come across is the plastic wing nuts were bad so the buckets would leak out into the lids beneath. I've replaced them with metal but even with the included rubber pieces there's still a leak from the buckets above onto the lids beneath them.
Distilling works well - but requires precision temperature control like an induction burner to avoid fire risks. Also, I would use a secondary container inside your distiller boiler so that the contaminant (in this case resin) stay in the secondary container. Unless you want to spend big money for a dedicated distiller just for your iso.
I just have an aluminum pot I cut the handle off. I bought it at a thrift store for $2 and the bottom is lousy with residue, but my distiller is clean as a whistle.