The Bismarck build I'm currently using; th-cam.com/video/-eABEUhOT0g/w-d-xo.html The Kurfurst Tank build that I actually recommend for the FDG; th-cam.com/video/orD5msCvVd8/w-d-xo.html
It's always good to see a BB pushing and being aggressive. Do you have a game to balance off the notion that the same aggressive BB play without the rest of the team following to support and take advantage is like? I personally think a greater emphasis could have been placed on how much attention you were probably paying to the map. Watching not where the enemy were but where your team was. If that team hadn't pushed along with you I don't think you would have pushed as far. I play aggressive BB but I haven't quite mastered the art of "watch the bloody map numpty" so I over extend far to often.lol Aggressive BB is usually a lonely dieing BB in this game if your not careful.
MoA, what do you mean by team not pushing with BB ? The entire team stays at spawn ? Never seen that in 2 years. DD are always ahead, cruisers follow. You just have to follow your team, using the small item called minimap. So instead of yoloing, enlarge your minimap and check every 30s instead of 3 minutes. Then you may perform better than most of the BB plebe.
And when you try replicating this game you become a mashed potato. But that's what you do to potatoes, right? You boil 'em, mash 'em, put 'em in a stew!
I fully agree with you Flamu, but there might be another reason why BB players tend to play passive. For example they play passive because they dont trust their teammates. 90% of the games where i play BB (tend to play hyper agressive) i end up alone and my teammates are running away. If you see this almost every game, well you cant blame the player for playing safe.
I agree with you. When I do play battleships (sometimes) I always rush into their cap and I ask the team to back me up, but they go to different caps. XD
Agreed. That works only with good teams. In my Bismarck, I want to be aggressive too, but if I do that, even watching the map and everything, watching my teammates... at some point somebody seems to ask, who volunteers for a quick death and everyone takes a step back. And German BB are a favourite target for HE spammers anyway, so those BB burn down so quickly.... you can try to retreat, but usually your teammates are way better at running, so you remain the sole target until you die.
I almost always play BBs in a division (usually with cruisers) and use the support of my div mates to push up, tank hits and force the enemy to turn away so my friends can get perfect broadside shots on them. Atlanta is definitely a stellar choice to division up with if you're playing Tier 7 in particular. The fantastic AA cover, constant rain of fire and radar to smoke out any sneaky DDs are all invaluable tools in a supporting role, and you make up for how squishy it is by tanking the majority of the fire in your BB. Of course this doesn't stop the rest of our team from folding on an entire flank and leaving it wide open but if we do see this happen then we usually try to move on over and support the exposed flank. Also bringing a DD that can harass with torpedoes, force broadsides by making the enemy ships turn to dodge as well as smoke you up for a moment of relief if you start taking too much damage is also a very good idea.
Playing in a division is different because you can rely on your teammates in a division. If I play solo, i dont trust my teammates anymore, i always assume that they will run and guess what happens almost every single game
jaseandjohn not everything no, GK is an exception. but a seasoned playet can always wreck a bow in GK by shooting the superstructure (even monty can wreck GK like dat) but no GK will go bow in to you in the first place so meh
Just remember what Flamu said in his last commentary...always have an exit strategy. Being a presence doesn't mean you yolo in. You need to find the middle ground.
Exactly what I was gonna say. Sorry Flamu, as much as I love your videos, the reason why BBs don’t push it’s because 90% of the time you’re going to be teamed up with Potato heads that don’t know what teamwork is. DDs and most Cruisers have the ability to easily disengage if they find themselves in a pickle. But a BB doesn’t have that same flexibility. If you get 4+ ships concentrating on you in the middle of the map, you’re fucked. Yamato for example, is dead in the water in close quarter brawl with brain dead teammates.
With all do respect, this clip is an example of what happens when you get lucky. In my case, I always play depending on the situation. Just like real life warfare, not every battle is the same. I change my play style depending on what BB I’m using and how my team is playing. Let’s say I’m in a Yamato or Montana and I see my potato head teammates can’t seem to get shit done, I punish all the broadsides first then push once I have weakened their team to clean up the place. BUT if I see that my teammates are working as a team and providing full support for each other then I’m FULL SPEED AHEAD!
Which btw, I love it when I do get teamed up with that awesome team that is on the same boat (pun intended) You can even see how the enemy team is freaking out because your team is coming at them full force like it’s Hitler’s Blitzkrieg.
Spending 70% of the HP pool CORRECTLY in the first few minutes is very important by eating a shitload of pens and fires and tell anything that gets close enough to fuck off. THEN when your "average" teammates grow some balls and push forward abit FALLBACK and heal up, you'll probably end up with a 50% health battleship, which is more than enough because now the whole team is tanking for you. bam. easy win
The down side of course, is when the enemy is doing the exact same thing, PROBABLY both of you would end up in a ram because you cannot disengage. BUT, hey, battleships with brains, how often would you see one on both teams?
Good lord that some RNG. At the beginning of that game, if I was playing, that Donskoi and Moskva would have gotten 5 fires on me. That said, also a good way to die on the NA server as your teammates are hardly smart enough to support that kind of aggresive action.
Thanks for another great video. It should be mandatory viewing for all BB drivers in the game. Even after all the nerfs to DD's I still see the same passive play in BB's, the only difference being that now it's 5 passive BB's each game instead of just 2 or 3. It has gotten so bad that when I look back 5 minutes in and see all our BB's sitting in spawn I immediately think, "Fornicate me ... this game is lost." Unfortunately this almost always proves to be the case. I have been waiting since patch 6.3 to see BB's break away from old habits but this just hasn't been the case. Maybe, just maybe, this video will trigger this much needed sea change. Good job Flamu, Das Bat
I agree with the comments, that agressive BB is not always understood by your teammates. It has to be done right timingwise and you should keep a plan B. Ultimately i love it, having you commenting this issue of passive cowardish BB play over and over again and hope, it will have any impact on some of those, who actually try to get inspiration from your vids. When i play DD i always support my BBs by smoking for them and try to honor their gameplay in advance.
I’m pretty sure your Izumo was playing passively because he was aware that Japanese BB’s aren’t brawlers like German BB’s, He was using his long range and accurate guns to his advantage
Coming from someone who exclusively plays solo, having an impact by being an aggressive battleship just straight up doesn't work nowadays. The standard of play is at an all time low. You straight up can't trust your team mates to get anything done. In the early game, where an aggressive push would have the most impact on the game, you have no ability to carry the early game as you rely on your team mates pushing in and doing their job, and staying up there instead of turning away like a bunch of pussies. One could say that cruisers don't push up because battleships don't back them up, and that's true. This is a fundamental problem with the game Aggressive battleships in fact don't win games. Good team work wins games. Those two may be intrinsically related, but just because aggressive battleships are part of good team play doesn't necessarily mean aggressive battleships win games, because they can get you fruitlessly killed through no fault of your own
Very interesting..I just got my t9 last night..and what a hell of a grind it's been..nice points in this video..think I'll go with the tank build on this Fredrick..
Lmfao guys It is *pointless* to say this kind of aggressive push doesn't work if your team doesn't help. If *strategy A* doesn't work in *scenario B*, Flamu would use *strategy B* instead.
Flamu you are super unicum. This means that you have situational awareness and you can analyze and adapt to situations, and also creating ones. Average joe will push and be torped to wreck in the first 5 minutes.
I don't always agree with you, but thank you for doing this video. The passive play i've been seeing, especially with BB's, is almost an infection that is going to kill the game. I also play aggressive with my BB's, but it's hard to do what you di when everyone else is shooting at max range and scared of getting hit
It is fucking great if it works but lets talk real here in 8/10 games where you try to push agressive as a BB and bully the enemys away your teammates suddenly all run for god knows what reasons and you are left alone as the focus of the whole enemy team and can consider yourself lucky if you manage to make it out alive again Games where your aggressive playstyle works are always super fun but sadly also super rare
"Seems like a simple thing." Ah, how I wish it were. Most BBs are cowardly...biggest guns, biggest HP, thickest armor...too scared to advance. I have a problem sailing BB where I constantly over extend because I assume that my fellow BBs will eventually find their spine and push with me - lemmings and all that. You're right on though - aggression versus cowardice is a win for the aggressors nearly every time.
I stay somewhat back because once I start taking damage, everyone starts to shoot at me and I end up melting because 5 different cruisers start focusing me
*sigh* That is how I try to play in a BB, especially on this map. Unfortunately it gets damned frustrating when you're in an Amagi or an Iowa and all those shiny Yamatos and Kurfursts immediately turn hard and go towards mid, never moving up. Either you're forced to fight a defensive battle, if you have a cruiser and a DD for support, or if you're alone, you simply have to join the lemming train or get overwhelmed. This map especially sees crap like Tier X battleships being terrified of advancing anywhere or even holding their ground when pushed.
3 years later and we have Smollensk, Harugumo, kitakaze, colbert, CV rework, Venezia, CV rework and coming soon submarines.. I used to love playing battleships especially the Germans, I love playign aggressively and tanking potential damage but against so many ships that dont give a shit if you angle, you go down so fast and even if you dont, you are rewarded more in terms of XP and credits if you sit back sniping.
if the title was true, I would have a win rate of >90% with my German BBs. It's easy to boast that you are so awesome with your big bully ship when your team is actually playing well for once.
I just acquired and started playing my Iowa and Bismarck about a week ago. Boy if you think low tiers have trouble with chickenshit BBs you haven't seen anything yet. I feel like a unicorn because I am consistently the only BB who crosses the midline of the map. Time and time again I fight as hard as I can, die and then realize that the only other BB on the team is a wallet warrior Missouri hugging the A1 map corner like it's his firstborn child and he hasn't taken a single point of damage.
Being a 45% win player, (I know) I agree entirely with these tactics, and enjoy doing it. The problem with this is that I usually eat a faceful of torpedoes andor get focused by 5 ships. Looking back I see my teammates 10 km behind, and hiding behind islands.
For all of you BB captains who run into 'the being left alone' situations, I found spamming chat with 'I'm pushing A / west flank /... with hydro up. Follow me, I' ll tank' seems to help. I get a few instant 'support that target' usually
I really wish that manual fire control would still be normal secondary fire when not told to focus fire. I never use it because i always forget. i'd rather have both sides of my ship firing and use it as a sort of warning alarm, then that 60% more hits(which translates into something like a 10 or 12% hit rate instead of 5 or 6%)
That is a nice example of how you should use your BB. But this kind of game happens in 1% of the battles. Every time I try to do the same in my games, the team dont follow, they just let me die alone because it seems easier to be passive and snipe that actually use your ship in the way it should be.
I think the Izumo player did a pretty fine job, assuming he did know the situation, that you were tanking, that Izumo is more fragile. So he stay back and support fire. Though I do agree that he stayed too far, which made it not as effective
Since i got the Bismarck i tried doing exactly that, got the secondary build and all this fire is devastating but what usually ends up happening is that i am at the front fighting 4 ships at once while my BBs are 5km behind me and my cruisers are 7km behind me, to scared to take on the DDs that need to die
Absolutely agree. On the NA server, I have to write at least twice each match for the BBs not to be falling asleep behind every other ship of the team, trying to snipe stuff, makes me especially mad with german BBs. I can understand, that japanese, british and USN BBs might need to stick with medium range, but german BBs need to brawl (turtleback, torps, much better accuracy with german BB dispersion). Together with the lack of additional content (other than new ships to grind) this has been a very bad trait to WOWS lately. A mate of mine even might stop playing because of the BBabies taking over high tiers, even T10 (no joke, have seem timid yamatos, no fun). I do have to say, that WG is trying to put more content in lately with the operations, that I fairly enjoy. Still won't help, if you get potato teams, just increasing the frustration. It is just mind-numbing, how players are resistant to learn the basic gameplay until T6 (but yeah I can understand this, if you focus one line instead of doing multiple lines at once).
I hate it when teammate BB's don't come in with me, I'm a BB player and I love pushing in, an example is when I was in my Bismarck on the Map 2 Brothers there was a Hood that didn't push in with me and the enemy dd's snuck round the outside of the map before I could get there thanks to that Hood.
i admire your play style. something bad is happening at the european server lately, too many "hide and type..." players scorring DMG from far, rather than plating... Sruliko
You can do that when you have friendly DDs going for the cap. On the Eu server lately you more and more often see Shimas and Yugumos sailing round caps and farming torp DMG on BBs... I normally play like you say (though never as good of course!) and often cap with CCs as DDs get themselves suicide after 3 mins or just torp BBs on map edge.
The impact you can have depends on too many external factors. How the dd's react to your pushing? How many HE spam cruisers are shooting at you? Are you going to get dropped? Is your team even doing anything during your time tanking? Most of the time, people just stay back and farm dmg while you tank and die. Radar cruisers save their radars for themselves, DD's/CV's not spotting torps That's how it usually goes in random battles.
Do you have any suggestion what could be changed so team play is "enforced"? I have an above average WR (58%, only playing solo), but at least 2/3rds of the games are just frustrating, even when winning. A few days ago I lost a 159k damage game in a Hipper (most of it AP damage, not BB fires). Tanked and dodged shots from a New Orleans, a Fiji and a Bismarck at the same time, until I had to retreat at about 10% health because the full health Amagi a few km behind me never moved up even after repeated calls for support. The Amagi went from full health (at four ships on our team left) to sunk in two minutes because, it got attacked by the CV (guess what, no cruisers left for AA). The game ended, because the enemy CV! capped our base. I couldn't do anything about it because I had to go through a Fuso first. I still did alot of damage to the Fuso (definitely more than I had left), but neither of us got sunk by the end of the game and I finished with 1.7k base XP (the best enemy having 1.3k). This games was so frustrating that I stopped playing after only the second game. Something has to be changed. Players like that should not be able to play BBs. WG should make BBs so expensive to play that you can only afford playing them continuously if you are actually good. On the other hand make the other classes more of a money maker at all tiers (any half decent game even if lost at tier X should earn you money).
Why screw bbs like that most stay back as u can disengage as u did but we cant really do that after 4 games in a row of pushing to have my friendlies leave me at first contact i dont push i snipe and many other ship types camp in there own way
Thats what i always try as a BB player, but im allways the only one and end up getting focused down by the tryharders on EU server... But thx alot for this vid Flamu, those BB campers are a pain ! They always die alone, using one heal but they wont get it.
I have had this game for a month. I have a tier VI HMS QE. I tried pushing up like Flamu does here a few times. My teams goes off, fucks it up and I am left on my own and torpedoed to death from the air and by DD's. So, I tried hanging back a bit and supporting the team from medium and long range. My team goes off, fucks it up and again I am left on my own to get torpedoed to death by air and DD's with the team moaning about BB's 'camping' at the back of the map. It is not often that you get any actual teamwork during random battles, well, not on the EU servers anyway. To push up aggressively with the HMS QE (which has nice guns by the way) you need at least 1 cruiser with you, like HMS Leander with her hydro, smoke and DD killing guns. I have used the HMS QE less and less now because of the lack of teamwork. I prefer sailing in HMS Leander and providing escort duties for a BB myself. Helping with AA, screening and dealing with DD's is what HMS Leander is good at and I do well in that role. I am not one for moaning about others during battles as it is pointless and doesn't achieve anything. I have noticed that as Flamu points out in this vid, people don't seem to realise the power of Battleship. If they did, they would support them more by using their DD's and CA's to scout and screen the BB so it can be free to cause maximum damage as well as take a lot of damage for the team from enemy BB's etc.
With this kind of support, I can take open caps even in a Tashkent or Kiev ... My only worry in that case is to kill the enemy DDs as fast as possible to lower the torpedo threat ... I think I only had a game like that once or twice ... and the one time it was a Des Moines backing me up ... we both died in the end, but we held the cap and killed a Donskoi, Moskva and some DD (benson ? don't remember anymore) ...
I am using the New Orlean now, but I have never seen a battleship push to cover me and just let me die away, and I just want to cover the dd with my poorly radar.
Being a spearhead of pushing aggressively is the one of the most hard thing to do in wows. You have to check potential torpedos, checking your allies if they backing you up, angle against all potential heavy damage dealer Sum up, *FDG is shiiiiiiiiit*
When I play aggressive in BBs, I usually see my team run away from the enemy and leaving me hanging.... But atleast I have fun although short games. But that said, I am NOT a good BB player, most likely, I am horrible.
This should be mandatory to watch before getting a BB, I just don't get what people are doing with their BB's most of the time. I mean, sure, if you are very new to the game it might be tempting to use the range you have, especially after experiencing being torped a couple of times when getting to close to the front. But if you just play for a while in a DD or in a cruiser actively supporting caps you know which kind of battleships are the scary ones: certainly not the ones sitting in spawn lobbing shells every 30 seconds, that's just an annoyance. But seeing a BB, especially a german BB steadily bearing down on the cap you're in is just terrifying. You just straight up have to run away or die.
Do you think the 420s are worth it over the 406? I mean wont they get way more overpens cuz i still struggle to get good damage with 406 on cruisers, they always seems to overpen
When I do this I get burned down by three cruisers and bombed by yamato while my entire team is sitting in the back watching and the dd i tried to support got torped.
Flamu, thanks for the content! Any recommendations for two man division compositions that are really strong? E. g. US DD and Japanese BB, Japanese CV and US CA, etc. Thanks!
I for one am now starting to learn this. Thing is, my first t9 BB was my Iowa, and the "Push, pull back, repair, rinse and repeat" is trickier in that ship because of its citadel. Any extra pointers on that one Flamu?
Thanks for that heads-up Igor Novyk, I'll play it some more then and see what works for me. Although I have still been citadelling other people's Iowas quite recently (but then some people just ask for it by staying broadside-on).
well...... the new update rewards BBs more particularly (potential damage) tanking more for the team so a much aggressive gameplay is being promoted more on battleships on next update so they took out the xp/credit reward for spot damage and reduce the credits to earn to 50% just to promote more manly bb drivers.....
I just resumed playing that game and I only have a US BB lv4 (and a lv4 carrier, but just to say, nothing past lv5 yet), what you say, it does apply for all BB lv or just high lv ? (because most of the time, either I got torp or flaming by cruisers HE so does that mean I'm pushing too hard like some dumb guy or that I'm doing the right thing ? or just that it is because it is random pvp and I end up all alone, trying to regroup with my team who left me all alone against 50 ships and getting destroyed ? :o)
Low Tier BB is very different. You don´t have the big health advantage over the other classes, and so every Torp hit does considerably more damage. Also Torp reloads of enemy DDs are much faster, your secondaries are shit. At low tiers, enemy DDs can much more effectively counter your BB, unlike in the high tiers.
Yes but it is really cool when I succeed in dodging torps :p (but for the 1 time I dogde torps, I didn't 9 other times^^and died or flooded) Ok, so at which lv does it start to apply ? 7 ? And despite looking at the map (enlarged), what can I do if my team follow me and when they get damaged, they run away so I do too but I'm too slow so I'm a burning flooded BB while they are mostly ok ? hide behind them or just keep playing aggressive ? (lv 4 BB heal isn't that much :( so not sure I could do things like Flamu, hiding 15sec undetected and then move again and ambushing someone) (and I just resumed so my aim is kind of crappy so if I do 50k or succeed in killing 1 ship, I'm already happy^^ -no matter if I killed 1 because he broadsided to me and I aimed a good volley at him) where is the training room ? :p thanks
Hello Flamu. I have a question and I would be very pleased if u answer me. I have ryzen 1400 and gigabyte gtx 660 2gb which video settings do u suggest me to have?. I play on very hight but sometimes fps isnt that stable. I have antialiasing off.
This should be put on wargaming page and made compulsory viewing for anyone playing battleships, I love playing most types of ship (although not every nation I admit). I enjoy being in a battleship up front at full speed it's fun and your built to take damage, yes there are battles where sometimes the cruisers won't support preferring to camp behind an island, so a Japanese DD hunts you down but that's not often the case, usually if you push your team pushes with you and the game is more fun, at the very least even if I die at least I have not wasted 20 minutes camping snipeing away being bored to death.
Anybody else think that the game should also reward you with credits and XP for the amount of damage you absorb, or even the person who dies first at the start of the game without hitting or damaging someone?
Whilst I agree that battleship captains are in general way too passive and mostly a bunch of pussies, I don't think you could have pulled those tactics in any other battleship line. As you reached B and turned, you'd have taken way more unhealable AP damage in another battleship line and probably have died. If possible, could you focus on how to be appropriately aggressive in battleships as maybe a focus for a few episodes. Cover a few well used battleships and show where and when to push etc? I'm hoping it might get some of the captains in game off their asses a little more often.
The best way to play a BB indeed. I loved aggressive play since day 1 :D What would you recommend to a captain that is actually quite aggressive but lacks situation awareness, I tend to misjudge when to retreat and how to position myself to be a bully as you say. I feel like I'm missing that tactical insight, I mean.. in a regular game you have ACTUAL thought processes that go somewhat the way you comment/explain/talk in your vids?
I was thinking about going for vigilance and the hydro upgrade mod on all of my germans to really get what I can out of the nice hydro but not sure its worth it. I find torpedos being a bigger threat than gunfire for the role this ship is made for.
You were kinda lucky CAs gave you a lot of broadside shots, but anyways i also play this way, have good winrates, but weak dmg per game, since people don't usually give this much broadside and sometimes things get complicated early, depending on your and enemy team. So, i like the video! :thumbsup:
You have to admit though that there are moments where the teammates dont support aggressive bbs like dds not providing smoke or even cruisers sniping, like zao.
Playing aggressive like that in the FDG is all well and good but you got *extremely* lucky, both with gun dispersion and the enemies not properly focusing you down. This is how I try to play my FDG of course - thing's best played within 10km - but how long you survive while doing that much of the time depends on how competent the enemy is. It has a lot of HP but when properly focused, particularly by BBs taking advantage of you turning away (which they seriously didn't), all that HP tends to evaporate. I don't like the ship, heh. It has a role, but it's not really in control of it like other ships are.
So im trying to get my team forward with DD's. i got a Udaloi so im not much of a DD. but im fast and i have smoke. so i follow the team a little en when i see there is a fight going on i will use my smoke on tactical positions so ppl can go in safely. thats my way of getting the team forward
The Bismarck build I'm currently using; th-cam.com/video/-eABEUhOT0g/w-d-xo.html
The Kurfurst Tank build that I actually recommend for the FDG; th-cam.com/video/orD5msCvVd8/w-d-xo.html
Flamu thank you for showing an aggressive bb game. too much tentative play by NA bb drivers makes me nuts.
It's a global problem. SEA battleships are just as timid most of the time.
It's always good to see a BB pushing and being aggressive. Do you have a game to balance off the notion that the same aggressive BB play without the rest of the team following to support and take advantage is like? I personally think a greater emphasis could have been placed on how much attention you were probably paying to the map. Watching not where the enemy were but where your team was. If that team hadn't pushed along with you I don't think you would have pushed as far. I play aggressive BB but I haven't quite mastered the art of "watch the bloody map numpty" so I over extend far to often.lol Aggressive BB is usually a lonely dieing BB in this game if your not careful.
Well, normally I try such thinks my team let me down and I'm fighting against 3 enemies alone and die...
MoA, what do you mean by team not pushing with BB ? The entire team stays at spawn ? Never seen that in 2 years.
DD are always ahead, cruisers follow. You just have to follow your team, using the small item called minimap. So instead of yoloing, enlarge your minimap and check every 30s instead of 3 minutes. Then you may perform better than most of the BB plebe.
**Watches video, loads up WoWs, pushes aggressively into the middle, gets melted instantly.**
Bugman_oO *reports noob teamates too*
Hahaha yeah.
Loving these BB games. You turned me from a potato to a slightly better potato!
You are now a baked potato.
hahahahahahahhhahaa
And when you try replicating this game you become a mashed potato. But that's what you do to potatoes, right? You boil 'em, mash 'em, put 'em in a stew!
its fun to watch these old videos. Push this hard today in a bb and youd get HE melted in the first 45 seconds
I fully agree with you Flamu, but there might be another reason why BB players tend to play passive. For example they play passive because they dont trust their teammates. 90% of the games where i play BB (tend to play hyper agressive) i end up alone and my teammates are running away. If you see this almost every game, well you cant blame the player for playing safe.
I agree with you. When I do play battleships (sometimes) I always rush into their cap and I ask the team to back me up, but they go to different caps. XD
Agreed. That works only with good teams. In my Bismarck, I want to be aggressive too, but if I do that, even watching the map and everything, watching my teammates... at some point somebody seems to ask, who volunteers for a quick death and everyone takes a step back. And German BB are a favourite target for HE spammers anyway, so those BB burn down so quickly.... you can try to retreat, but usually your teammates are way better at running, so you remain the sole target until you die.
I almost always play BBs in a division (usually with cruisers) and use the support of my div mates to push up, tank hits and force the enemy to turn away so my friends can get perfect broadside shots on them. Atlanta is definitely a stellar choice to division up with if you're playing Tier 7 in particular. The fantastic AA cover, constant rain of fire and radar to smoke out any sneaky DDs are all invaluable tools in a supporting role, and you make up for how squishy it is by tanking the majority of the fire in your BB.
Of course this doesn't stop the rest of our team from folding on an entire flank and leaving it wide open but if we do see this happen then we usually try to move on over and support the exposed flank.
Also bringing a DD that can harass with torpedoes, force broadsides by making the enemy ships turn to dodge as well as smoke you up for a moment of relief if you start taking too much damage is also a very good idea.
Indeed. The number of times I've pushed in my BB's and as soon as we see the other team the DD's and Cruisers on my team all turn and run.
Playing in a division is different because you can rely on your teammates in a division. If I play solo, i dont trust my teammates anymore, i always assume that they will run and guess what happens almost every single game
Point is if you push as a BB 90% of the time you wont get any support from your team, you get focus and you die. End of the story.
Fanatic Productions you have a fucking minimap use it wisely
I do. I try do push, I recognise I get no support by using the minimap and I stop pushing. The for bad manner by the way.
@@ThatOneDude7 u cant disengage like cl in a bb if they leave u u are fuck
im new on wows..
so, how you push w/o BB? cruiser get spotted and melted, dd do nothing except spotting
Everytime I push up aggressively in my Montana, I get lol-penned by Yamatos, focused by the entire team and die.
jaseandjohn not everything no, GK is an exception. but a seasoned playet can always wreck a bow in GK by shooting the superstructure (even monty can wreck GK like dat) but no GK will go bow in to you in the first place so meh
False. Aggressive BBs die alone while their team mates use the chance to make a run for the map border.
Just remember what Flamu said in his last commentary...always have an exit strategy. Being a presence doesn't mean you yolo in. You need to find the middle ground.
he didn't die just because the enemy didn't contest the cap at all.
Exactly what I was gonna say. Sorry Flamu, as much as I love your videos, the reason why BBs don’t push it’s because 90% of the time you’re going to be teamed up with Potato heads that don’t know what teamwork is. DDs and most Cruisers have the ability to easily disengage if they find themselves in a pickle. But a BB doesn’t have that same flexibility. If you get 4+ ships concentrating on you in the middle of the map, you’re fucked. Yamato for example, is dead in the water in close quarter brawl with brain dead teammates.
With all do respect, this clip is an example of what happens when you get lucky. In my case, I always play depending on the situation. Just like real life warfare, not every battle is the same. I change my play style depending on what BB I’m using and how my team is playing. Let’s say I’m in a Yamato or Montana and I see my potato head teammates can’t seem to get shit done, I punish all the broadsides first then push once I have weakened their team to clean up the place. BUT if I see that my teammates are working as a team and providing full support for each other then I’m FULL SPEED AHEAD!
Which btw, I love it when I do get teamed up with that awesome team that is on the same boat (pun intended) You can even see how the enemy team is freaking out because your team is coming at them full force like it’s Hitler’s Blitzkrieg.
I like these types of videos. There are so many passive players sniping from the edge of the map
Spending 70% of the HP pool CORRECTLY in the first few minutes is very important
by eating a shitload of pens and fires and tell anything that gets close enough to fuck off.
THEN when your "average" teammates grow some balls and push forward abit
FALLBACK and heal up, you'll probably end up with a 50% health battleship,
which is more than enough because now the whole team is tanking for you.
bam. easy win
The down side of course, is when the enemy is doing the exact same thing, PROBABLY both of you would end up in a ram because you cannot disengage.
BUT, hey, battleships with brains, how often would you see one on both teams?
Good lord that some RNG. At the beginning of that game, if I was playing, that Donskoi and Moskva would have gotten 5 fires on me. That said, also a good way to die on the NA server as your teammates are hardly smart enough to support that kind of aggresive action.
One of your best videos, I learned exactly what I was doing wrong. Can't wait to try this new aggressive stance.
Thanks for another great video. It should be mandatory viewing for all BB drivers in the game. Even after all the nerfs to DD's
I still see the same passive play in BB's, the only difference being that now it's 5 passive BB's each game instead of just 2 or 3.
It has gotten so bad that when I look back 5 minutes in and see all our BB's sitting in spawn I immediately think, "Fornicate me ... this game is lost." Unfortunately this almost always proves to be the case.
I have been waiting since patch 6.3 to see BB's break away from old habits but this just hasn't been the case.
Maybe, just maybe, this video will trigger this much needed sea change.
Good job Flamu,
Das Bat
"I am the aggressive BB making a difference on this flank!" *runs into a friendly NC* lol
I agree with the comments, that agressive BB is not always understood by your teammates. It has to be done right timingwise and you should keep a plan B. Ultimately i love it, having you commenting this issue of passive cowardish BB play over and over again and hope, it will have any impact on some of those, who actually try to get inspiration from your vids. When i play DD i always support my BBs by smoking for them and try to honor their gameplay in advance.
I’m pretty sure your Izumo was playing passively because he was aware that Japanese BB’s aren’t brawlers like German BB’s, He was using his long range and accurate guns to his advantage
Coming from someone who exclusively plays solo, having an impact by being an aggressive battleship just straight up doesn't work nowadays. The standard of play is at an all time low. You straight up can't trust your team mates to get anything done. In the early game, where an aggressive push would have the most impact on the game, you have no ability to carry the early game as you rely on your team mates pushing in and doing their job, and staying up there instead of turning away like a bunch of pussies. One could say that cruisers don't push up because battleships don't back them up, and that's true. This is a fundamental problem with the game
Aggressive battleships in fact don't win games. Good team work wins games. Those two may be intrinsically related, but just because aggressive battleships are part of good team play doesn't necessarily mean aggressive battleships win games, because they can get you fruitlessly killed through no fault of your own
The chosen server and their lovely missionspam
2:35 double torpedo dodge . Cinematic...
Very interesting..I just got my t9 last night..and what a hell of a grind it's been..nice points in this video..think I'll go with the tank build on this Fredrick..
Lmfao guys
It is *pointless* to say this kind of aggressive push doesn't work if your team doesn't help.
If *strategy A* doesn't work in *scenario B*, Flamu would use *strategy B* instead.
Flamu you are super unicum. This means that you have situational awareness and you can analyze and adapt to situations, and also creating ones. Average joe will push and be torped to wreck in the first 5 minutes.
I don't always agree with you, but thank you for doing this video. The passive play i've been seeing, especially with BB's, is almost an infection that is going to kill the game. I also play aggressive with my BB's, but it's hard to do what you di when everyone else is shooting at max range and scared of getting hit
It is fucking great if it works but lets talk real here in 8/10 games where you try to push agressive as a BB and bully the enemys away your teammates suddenly all run for god knows what reasons and you are left alone as the focus of the whole enemy team and can consider yourself lucky if you manage to make it out alive again
Games where your aggressive playstyle works are always super fun but sadly also super rare
"Seems like a simple thing." Ah, how I wish it were. Most BBs are cowardly...biggest guns, biggest HP, thickest armor...too scared to advance. I have a problem sailing BB where I constantly over extend because I assume that my fellow BBs will eventually find their spine and push with me - lemmings and all that. You're right on though - aggression versus cowardice is a win for the aggressors nearly every time.
There's a ton of sound tactics advice in here, actually. Don't abandon flanks, don't hide in the back and let the reds dictate terms.
Whenever i try this , i always get abandoned by my team. looks like i am always in a team full of cowards.
I stay somewhat back because once I start taking damage, everyone starts to shoot at me and I end up melting because 5 different cruisers start focusing me
*sigh*
That is how I try to play in a BB, especially on this map. Unfortunately it gets damned frustrating when you're in an Amagi or an Iowa and all those shiny Yamatos and Kurfursts immediately turn hard and go towards mid, never moving up. Either you're forced to fight a defensive battle, if you have a cruiser and a DD for support, or if you're alone, you simply have to join the lemming train or get overwhelmed. This map especially sees crap like Tier X battleships being terrified of advancing anywhere or even holding their ground when pushed.
3 years later and we have Smollensk, Harugumo, kitakaze, colbert, CV rework, Venezia, CV rework and coming soon submarines.. I used to love playing battleships especially the Germans, I love playign aggressively and tanking potential damage but against so many ships that dont give a shit if you angle, you go down so fast and even if you dont, you are rewarded more in terms of XP and credits if you sit back sniping.
if the title was true, I would have a win rate of >90% with my German BBs.
It's easy to boast that you are so awesome with your big bully ship when your team is actually playing well for once.
Super style Flamu,,, You are the best.
I wish more BBs played like you. Too many scared BB captains.
I wish my team would push with me when I play aggressively so I don't get melted instantly
I just acquired and started playing my Iowa and Bismarck about a week ago. Boy if you think low tiers have trouble with chickenshit BBs you haven't seen anything yet. I feel like a unicorn because I am consistently the only BB who crosses the midline of the map. Time and time again I fight as hard as I can, die and then realize that the only other BB on the team is a wallet warrior Missouri hugging the A1 map corner like it's his firstborn child and he hasn't taken a single point of damage.
Yeah, you take *SOME DAMAGE WHICH IS FREQUENTLY EXCEEDING 10Ks* from bow!
Epic torpedo dodge at 2:40
well this video didn't age very well
Being a 45% win player, (I know) I agree entirely with these tactics, and enjoy doing it. The problem with this is that I usually eat a faceful of torpedoes andor get focused by 5 ships. Looking back I see my teammates 10 km behind, and hiding behind islands.
For all of you BB captains who run into 'the being left alone' situations, I found spamming chat with 'I'm pushing A / west flank /... with hydro up. Follow me, I' ll tank' seems to help. I get a few instant 'support that target' usually
Cheers! Thank you once again for the great info!
Happens to me almost all the time in my Bismarck. We start pushing then everyone with me either scatters or turns tail and I get focused and dead.
Also, double thumbs up for synchronized torpedo beats...
I really wish that manual fire control would still be normal secondary fire when not told to focus fire. I never use it because i always forget. i'd rather have both sides of my ship firing and use it as a sort of warning alarm, then that 60% more hits(which translates into something like a 10 or 12% hit rate instead of 5 or 6%)
That is a nice example of how you should use your BB. But this kind of game happens in 1% of the battles. Every time I try to do the same in my games, the team dont follow, they just let me die alone because it seems easier to be passive and snipe that actually use your ship in the way it should be.
I think the Izumo player did a pretty fine job, assuming he did know the situation, that you were tanking, that Izumo is more fragile. So he stay back and support fire. Though I do agree that he stayed too far, which made it not as effective
4.08 Flumy, the hole plugging bouncer. :)
i just find every time i go in and lead, the followup from my team is minimal to non
Since i got the Bismarck i tried doing exactly that, got the secondary build and all this fire is devastating but what usually ends up happening is that i am at the front fighting 4 ships at once while my BBs are 5km behind me and my cruisers are 7km behind me, to scared to take on the DDs that need to die
Absolutely agree.
On the NA server, I have to write at least twice each match for the BBs not to be falling asleep behind every other ship of the team, trying to snipe stuff, makes me especially mad with german BBs. I can understand, that japanese, british and USN BBs might need to stick with medium range, but german BBs need to brawl (turtleback, torps, much better accuracy with german BB dispersion).
Together with the lack of additional content (other than new ships to grind) this has been a very bad trait to WOWS lately. A mate of mine even might stop playing because of the BBabies taking over high tiers, even T10 (no joke, have seem timid yamatos, no fun).
I do have to say, that WG is trying to put more content in lately with the operations, that I fairly enjoy. Still won't help, if you get potato teams, just increasing the frustration. It is just mind-numbing, how players are resistant to learn the basic gameplay until T6 (but yeah I can understand this, if you focus one line instead of doing multiple lines at once).
But unlike other classes we cant effectivly disengage if u dicide the flank is list u can leave and we cannot.
I hate it when teammate BB's don't come in with me, I'm a BB player and I love pushing in, an example is when I was in my Bismarck on the Map 2 Brothers there was a Hood that didn't push in with me and the enemy dd's snuck round the outside of the map before I could get there thanks to that Hood.
i admire your play style.
something bad is happening at the european server lately, too many "hide and type..." players scorring DMG from far, rather than plating...
Sruliko
You can do that when you have friendly DDs going for the cap. On the Eu server lately you more and more often see Shimas and Yugumos sailing round caps and farming torp DMG on BBs...
I normally play like you say (though never as good of course!) and often cap with CCs as DDs get themselves suicide after 3 mins or just torp BBs on map edge.
The impact you can have depends on too many external factors. How the dd's react to your pushing? How many HE spam cruisers are shooting at you? Are you going to get dropped? Is your team even doing anything during your time tanking?
Most of the time, people just stay back and farm dmg while you tank and die. Radar cruisers save their radars for themselves, DD's/CV's not spotting torps That's how it usually goes in random battles.
Do you have any suggestion what could be changed so team play is "enforced"? I have an above average WR (58%, only playing solo), but at least 2/3rds of the games are just frustrating, even when winning. A few days ago I lost a 159k damage game in a Hipper (most of it AP damage, not BB fires). Tanked and dodged shots from a New Orleans, a Fiji and a Bismarck at the same time, until I had to retreat at about 10% health because the full health Amagi a few km behind me never moved up even after repeated calls for support. The Amagi went from full health (at four ships on our team left) to sunk in two minutes because, it got attacked by the CV (guess what, no cruisers left for AA). The game ended, because the enemy CV! capped our base. I couldn't do anything about it because I had to go through a Fuso first. I still did alot of damage to the Fuso (definitely more than I had left), but neither of us got sunk by the end of the game and I finished with 1.7k base XP (the best enemy having 1.3k). This games was so frustrating that I stopped playing after only the second game.
Something has to be changed. Players like that should not be able to play BBs. WG should make BBs so expensive to play that you can only afford playing them continuously if you are actually good. On the other hand make the other classes more of a money maker at all tiers (any half decent game even if lost at tier X should earn you money).
Why screw bbs like that most stay back as u can disengage as u did but we cant really do that after 4 games in a row of pushing to have my friendlies leave me at first contact i dont push i snipe and many other ship types camp in there own way
Thats what i always try as a BB player, but im allways the only one and end up getting focused down by the tryharders on EU server...
But thx alot for this vid Flamu, those BB campers are a pain ! They always die alone, using one heal but they wont get it.
I have had this game for a month. I have a tier VI HMS QE. I tried pushing up like Flamu does here a few times. My teams goes off, fucks it up and I am left on my own and torpedoed to death from the air and by DD's. So, I tried hanging back a bit and supporting the team from medium and long range. My team goes off, fucks it up and again I am left on my own to get torpedoed to death by air and DD's with the team moaning about BB's 'camping' at the back of the map. It is not often that you get any actual teamwork during random battles, well, not on the EU servers anyway. To push up aggressively with the HMS QE (which has nice guns by the way) you need at least 1 cruiser with you, like HMS Leander with her hydro, smoke and DD killing guns. I have used the HMS QE less and less now because of the lack of teamwork. I prefer sailing in HMS Leander and providing escort duties for a BB myself. Helping with AA, screening and dealing with DD's is what HMS Leander is good at and I do well in that role. I am not one for moaning about others during battles as it is pointless and doesn't achieve anything. I have noticed that as Flamu points out in this vid, people don't seem to realise the power of Battleship. If they did, they would support them more by using their DD's and CA's to scout and screen the BB so it can be free to cause maximum damage as well as take a lot of damage for the team from enemy BB's etc.
With this kind of support, I can take open caps even in a Tashkent or Kiev ... My only worry in that case is to kill the enemy DDs as fast as possible to lower the torpedo threat ... I think I only had a game like that once or twice ... and the one time it was a Des Moines backing me up ... we both died in the end, but we held the cap and killed a Donskoi, Moskva and some DD (benson ? don't remember anymore) ...
I am using the New Orlean now, but I have never seen a battleship push to cover me and just let me die away, and I just want to cover the dd with my poorly radar.
Being a spearhead of pushing aggressively is the one of the most hard thing to do in wows.
You have to check potential torpedos, checking your allies if they backing you up, angle against all potential heavy damage dealer
Sum up, *FDG is shiiiiiiiiit*
When I play aggressive in BBs, I usually see my team run away from the enemy and leaving me hanging....
But atleast I have fun although short games.
But that said, I am NOT a good BB player, most likely, I am horrible.
Funny thing these days in Random is..BB's pushing Caps instead of DD's..DD's island camping. Throws my BB game out of gear. What do u suggest I do?
a very very thin line between yolo and pushing in random B.
That may work for you sir however every time I BB and push in I get torpedoed and fires early and sunk soon after.
This should be mandatory to watch before getting a BB, I just don't get what people are doing with their BB's most of the time. I mean, sure, if you are very new to the game it might be tempting to use the range you have, especially after experiencing being torped a couple of times when getting to close to the front. But if you just play for a while in a DD or in a cruiser actively supporting caps you know which kind of battleships are the scary ones: certainly not the ones sitting in spawn lobbing shells every 30 seconds, that's just an annoyance. But seeing a BB, especially a german BB steadily bearing down on the cap you're in is just terrifying. You just straight up have to run away or die.
Do you think the 420s are worth it over the 406? I mean wont they get way more overpens cuz i still struggle to get good damage with 406 on cruisers, they always seems to overpen
When I do this I get burned down by three cruisers and bombed by yamato while my entire team is sitting in the back watching and the dd i tried to support got torped.
Flamu, thanks for the content! Any recommendations for two man division compositions that are really strong? E. g. US DD and Japanese BB, Japanese CV and US CA, etc. Thanks!
That's how u play BBs even with amagi
Flamu please perform the Fubuki stock version! It's really difficult to play. Thanks man
How Can one access your Overlay or change the size of the minimap? Didn´t find it in settings... :( Great video nonetheless you earned a sub!
i upgraded to 420s and my damage fell significantly, feels like they have even worse dispersion than 406s
Every time I try to play aggressive I end up dead or stuck somewhere bc my team inst following.
I for one am now starting to learn this. Thing is, my first t9 BB was my Iowa, and the "Push, pull back, repair, rinse and repeat" is trickier in that ship because of its citadel. Any extra pointers on that one Flamu?
Depipro The ship citadel was changed significantly in last update. Its almost impossible to citadel now.
Thanks for that heads-up Igor Novyk, I'll play it some more then and see what works for me. Although I have still been citadelling other people's Iowas quite recently (but then some people just ask for it by staying broadside-on).
Alright, seems to be working:
wowreplays.com/Replay/39791
:)
What are your mods you use currently? For map and chat and so on
well...... the new update
rewards BBs more particularly (potential damage) tanking more for the team
so a much aggressive gameplay is being promoted more on battleships on next update
so they took out the xp/credit reward for spot damage and reduce the credits to earn to 50% just to promote more manly bb drivers.....
I just resumed playing that game and I only have a US BB lv4 (and a lv4 carrier, but just to say, nothing past lv5 yet), what you say, it does apply for all BB lv or just high lv ? (because most of the time, either I got torp or flaming by cruisers HE so does that mean I'm pushing too hard like some dumb guy or that I'm doing the right thing ? or just that it is because it is random pvp and I end up all alone, trying to regroup with my team who left me all alone against 50 ships and getting destroyed ? :o)
Low Tier BB is very different. You don´t have the big health advantage over the other classes, and so every Torp hit does considerably more damage. Also Torp reloads of enemy DDs are much faster, your secondaries are shit. At low tiers, enemy DDs can much more effectively counter your BB, unlike in the high tiers.
Yes but it is really cool when I succeed in dodging torps :p (but for the 1 time I dogde torps, I didn't 9 other times^^and died or flooded)
Ok, so at which lv does it start to apply ? 7 ?
And despite looking at the map (enlarged), what can I do if my team follow me and when they get damaged, they run away so I do too but I'm too slow so I'm a burning flooded BB while they are mostly ok ?
hide behind them or just keep playing aggressive ? (lv 4 BB heal isn't that much :( so not sure I could do things like Flamu, hiding 15sec undetected and then move again and ambushing someone) (and I just resumed so my aim is kind of crappy so if I do 50k or succeed in killing 1 ship, I'm already happy^^ -no matter if I killed 1 because he broadsided to me and I aimed a good volley at him)
where is the training room ? :p thanks
well, noone can blame izumo for not pushing into FdG...
Hello Flamu. I have a question and I would be very pleased if u answer me. I have ryzen 1400 and gigabyte gtx 660 2gb which video settings do u suggest me to have?. I play on very hight but sometimes fps isnt that stable. I have antialiasing off.
This should be put on wargaming page and made compulsory viewing for anyone playing battleships, I love playing most types of ship (although not every nation I admit). I enjoy being in a battleship up front at full speed it's fun and your built to take damage, yes there are battles where sometimes the cruisers won't support preferring to camp behind an island, so a Japanese DD hunts you down but that's not often the case, usually if you push your team pushes with you and the game is more fun, at the very least even if I die at least I have not wasted 20 minutes camping snipeing away being bored to death.
2:45 epic double bb torp beats ;p
Anybody else think that the game should also reward you with credits and XP for the amount of damage you absorb, or even the person who dies first at the start of the game without hitting or damaging someone?
Have an example of doing this in a Yamato or a Montana?
Whilst I agree that battleship captains are in general way too passive and mostly a bunch of pussies, I don't think you could have pulled those tactics in any other battleship line. As you reached B and turned, you'd have taken way more unhealable AP damage in another battleship line and probably have died.
If possible, could you focus on how to be appropriately aggressive in battleships as maybe a focus for a few episodes. Cover a few well used battleships and show where and when to push etc? I'm hoping it might get some of the captains in game off their asses a little more often.
Alex Abbott obviously he would have positionned himself differently rather than just Lulling from A to C.
easy to say when you have backup normally no CA pushes you and the DD are alon e you get fokused and get sung doing 20-30 k by fokus fire
The best way to play a BB indeed.
I loved aggressive play since day 1 :D
What would you recommend to a captain that is actually quite aggressive but lacks situation awareness, I tend to misjudge when to retreat and how to position myself to be a bully as you say.
I feel like I'm missing that tactical insight, I mean.. in a regular game you have ACTUAL thought processes that go somewhat the way you comment/explain/talk in your vids?
oh yeah im being shot at, oh no! thats my job as a BB..
2:35
Double battleship torpedobeats
I was thinking about going for vigilance and the hydro upgrade mod on all of my germans to really get what I can out of the nice hydro but not sure its worth it. I find torpedos being a bigger threat than gunfire for the role this ship is made for.
You were kinda lucky CAs gave you a lot of broadside shots, but anyways i also play this way, have good winrates, but weak dmg per game, since people don't usually give this much broadside and sometimes things get complicated early, depending on your and enemy team. So, i like the video! :thumbsup:
What fried build is this do u have a link?
Who else saw this on stream?
At 4:40 every one of thoose ships would of lit me up
This is How to battleship
You have to admit though that there are moments where the teammates dont support aggressive bbs like dds not providing smoke or even cruisers sniping, like zao.
RNG was your friend in this game.
Playing aggressive like that in the FDG is all well and good but you got *extremely* lucky, both with gun dispersion and the enemies not properly focusing you down. This is how I try to play my FDG of course - thing's best played within 10km - but how long you survive while doing that much of the time depends on how competent the enemy is. It has a lot of HP but when properly focused, particularly by BBs taking advantage of you turning away (which they seriously didn't), all that HP tends to evaporate.
I don't like the ship, heh. It has a role, but it's not really in control of it like other ships are.
It's so easy, but still ~90% of the BB captains don't get this...
So im trying to get my team forward with DD's. i got a Udaloi so im not much of a DD. but im fast and i have smoke. so i follow the team a little en when i see there is a fight going on i will use my smoke on tactical positions so ppl can go in safely. thats my way of getting the team forward
Just sold mine. 500k credits to the currywurst. :)
BB players are always the last to die. Funny how it'll be 12 min into game and they still have 80% hp from sitting in back being useless.
Flamu is a Bully