Very helpful video. I just received my first Lee factory crimp die (300 BLK) and will be setting it and up and using it soon. I was surprised at the results. Conventional wisdom, if I remember correctly, is that crimping hurts accuracy. However, this video showed it did not. In fact, it improved accuracy.
You are the MAN! I’m a newer reloader and often have many random questions I either can’t find enough information about OR can’t get a good visual on what’s being explained. You do a GREAT job of both. Thanks!
I'm sure glad you are as thorough as you are and your interests in reloading are so similar to mine because you save me a lot of time, money and experimentation. I hunt deer in northern Michigan with the 300 BO so your experimentation with that caliber is of high interest to me. The way you present information is very "conversational" and it's as if I'm in the same room with a buddy working out different loads, etc. Great Job and thanks a lot.
The man that taught me how to reload had me push the bullet into the table. If it moved needed a tighter crimp. Also, tap it on the table that may move it. Nice Vid Thanks
Thanks for this video. It confirms my personal thoughts on the hot topic of contention regarding crimping. I've always been one to crimp everything when running semi-auto rifles and pistols. You didn't have any major accuracy issues even on the non-cannellure bullets. I always crimp my 168 and 175 SMK for 308 SR25 loads and get half MOA to 3/4 MOA and I'm happy with that. Everyone always screaming at me "NEVER CRIMP EVER EVER EVA" and even if I show my groups and brass with no pressure signs they call it lucky. If the military does it, I'm gonna do it. Thanks for the vindication. Anyhow, what I'm really interested in is the functional 147gr subsonic rounds you got there. I have that powder, and I have thousands of Hornady 150gr FMJ-C's that I can try this with. You mean I don't have to spend .45 cents a round anymore on those 220 gr SMK's? AWESOME. Never even thought to try it. Oh, have you tried that new Hornady CFE-BLK powder yet? Just got 16 pounds ordered but won't be home until March to try it out. Would be cool to see you try out some loads.....others are having great results with it. Thanks again sir. Subbed.
At first I was gonna talk some shit about not using a turret at least buuuut I like where you're going being able to get down into the more detailed parts of reloading while keeping it interesting and informative for those who are new to the game. Good job!!
Thank you for all your videos. I am also a .300 BLK shooter and loader. When you did your videos about sizing dies, I detected one, what I would call a major oversight. It has to do with setting the case shoulder dimension during full length sizing. I do not setup my press the way you do. I use a Sheridan Engineering (or a Wilson case gauge) to establish the position of the shoulder. A case length gauge will allow you to set the sizing die in the correct position so that you do not set the shoulder back too far (or not far enough). The case length gauge has two steps ground into it. You simply screw the die into the press until the head of the case falls between the two steps. It's just that simple. Thanks again for your videos. Best regards, Gene B.
Hi Jonny, I shoot M1 Garand and Springfield M1A NM since 1987. I recently became concerned about bullet movement on chambering. My M1 Garand experienced (dummy rounds with the actual bullet seated to proper depth) with the CBTO being increased by about .003” after two single load chamberings. My M1A experienced the opposite result. The bullets were set back into the brass, I figured that was due to the chamber ramp feed causing resistance. That aside, I just purchased a LEE 30-06 factory crimp die. I saw how you were struggling to quantify the crimp value. I’m a retired Mechanical Engineer, don’t hold that against me! I am trying to quantify the crimp setting setup. I am trying by using feeler gauges to measure the collet gaps (2) that are across from each other. On my die, the state (no ram force applied) measures 0.032” on both collet 180 deg. opposed slots. At the LEE directed shell holder touch plus 1/2 I measured both gaps at 0.013”. The amount of crimp is still subjective, appearance, but maybe this method of quantifying the die will make repeatability easier. The only other consideration is the loaded cartridge neck O.D. before crimping. May have to alter for brass neck thickness. Just, an idea.
Use a collet die that shrinks the neck so that the mouth is that magical .002” less than actual bullet O.D. But do it after you turn the case necks. Blew me away at the case mouth brass thickness variations along it’s circumference. Only turn them enough so that you have cutter marks on about 7/8th of the total circumference. Don’t let the cutter touch the thinnest areas. These two operations will yield surprising accuracy improvements since the bullet is now properly centered and in correct alignment with the rifle bore. Once these operations are done, you can lightly crimp if you want to, but your bullet tension is already set. And as always, if you can see your crimp, you’ve crimped too hard.
I know this is old… but you need to crimp to prevent the bullet from moving out as you chamber a round. It doesn’t get pushed in like everyone thinks. It moves out like a puller.
The thing about having a crimp is that the bullet is held back in the case allowing the powder to build pressure as it starts to burn for a more complete burn and to allow the bullet to be under decent pressure so that when it starts moving and hits the rifling, it does so under a strong enough force that the bullet is less inclined to pause until pressure builds enough to force it along down the barrel.
35:23 Confirmed, Johnny has an ass manual. Good vid. Gathering things to start loading .300blk, and was curious about the crimp setting. This helped a lot. Thanks!
First, this is a very good, informative video. Thanks for doing this. I am working on trying to improve group size on an AR Stoner barrel, that has not been impressive with factory loads. And just need to make some because it is not available from stores. I wish you had chronographed this, but the data is good enough. I agree with you that most of the group size differences are insignificant, at least with that amount of data you have so far. The 147 grain heavy crimp group was effected by the velocity in and out of the sound barrier, but again nothing too dramatic. I liked your method for determining the medium crimp and I intend to replicate it. Looks like I have 18 more videos to watch. Hopefully they are all this informative.
Shame you didn't chronograph them mate. I'd suggest that the reason why quite a few of your heavier crimped subs went supersonic was due to an increase in pressure and consequently velocity from crimping. Thanks for the insight mate I've been enjoying your videos.
I realize this is an older video, but I certainly think you used the Lee Crimp Die set up improperly. You set it up with the case in place and then after making contact turn it in. You are set up to over crimp the way you set it up. Just saying it doesn't hurt to read directions. I use Lee Crimp dies all the time to at least have a light crimp for consistency.
On the subject of repeatable crimps, I'm using the Lee FCD as well, but then I found the Redding Micrometer adjustable taper crimp die and it is quite amazing. Not cheap, but if repeatability is a problem, it might be just the ticket.... It does stick to the brass a little.....so if running progressive, it might bother you....I'm still running the FCD on my 1050 though, because I haven't had any issues, but it's great for precision rounds in the future.
I like your instruction.. I'm an experienced Hand Loader and I see you get Frustrated, have to read the instructions more that once.. It's all good though.. I have that thing going on with me too..
So I guess the question is, what's the difference between crimp, and neck tension, when dealing with let's say, factory ammo? Are the factory dies doing something special/specific to maybe set a particular neck diameter to affect the performance of their loads? And.... Is that something to consider when handloading ammo, to ensure proper pressures and also controlling set back...?? Man that's a lot of experimentation to conduct, to see what works best. You would think the easiest way to control set back would be the Lee factory crimp die...but, if you had the proper die, you could also set your neck tension for best performance and also control set back. That's a huge HMMMMMM.....
#1 Thanks a million for posting all your hard work. #2 They need to increase production and distribution of Accurate 1680! #3 I need a piece of property where I can shoot and test my loads. driving 30 minutes to test 4 strings of 5 rounds suuuucks! Anyway, based on your excellent research, I was able to get my 8.3" to cycle and lock unsuppressed with 220gr using Alliant Reloader 7. That's awesome! But because of your videos, I now considered 1680 as a holy grail of subsonic power for .300 blackout. Even AAC recommends using 1680! I suspect that .300BLK ammo manufacturers are snatching up all the 1680, by any contract, wholesale, or retail means necessary to meet the commercial demand. Q: Have you noticed any cycling issues with your subs suppressed vs unsuppressed, and with your 8 inch vs your 16 inch? As if you don't a lot going on, but I'd love to see you redo those 147gr subs WITH hand thrown charges. I was rooting for a singlr ragged hole with 147gr heavy crimp! I swear I can't trust a mechanical powder thrower. I only feel safe doing it by hand. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!
+RETiredGM Thanks for watching! I agree on the 1680. They need to start cranking this stuff out. Reloder 7 is definitely my #2 favorite subsonic powder right now. I'm about to start a bunch of subsonic bullet testing and I can't wait to see how it stacks up against 1680. Having a range out back is really awesome. Now that I've got a suppressor it's even better. I've got some neighbors that aren't too far away and I always hate to think that I'm annoying the hell out of them all the time. I am just now getting the 16" broken in and feeling confident that it's operating like it should. So far, so good. The bullet testing that's coming up will answer the question about cycling between the 8 and 16 inch barrels. I would love to have a load that will run both guns suppressed and unsuppressed. I feel quite certain that it will be possible with 1680 and RL 7. Getting bolt lock-back with the 16" unsupressed will be the problem. That might not be possible, but we'll see. I will be doing a massive video about the 147gr subs. I want to test them for function and accuracy with hand weighed charges of all 6 powders. We'll be shooting a lot of ammo in that video.
That's great show since I tried figure why black hill .300 matchking keep jam sometime wont ejected. So I have been learned from you said crimp think didnt have crimp might that's why stuck inside chambers. Other everything fine like seller bellet 147 gr FMJ and everything except matchking trouble. Thanks
I think you need to seat them a little deeper so the crimping occurs right in the middle of the crimp groove. Awesome video, I've learned something, how to find repeatable crimp.
Reloading die Locking rings...."do exist".... IF ALWAYS USING SAME PRESS AND SAME SHELL HOLDER... Setting repeatability with a LOCKED ring , which includes "some sort of set screw" is a real possibility. There are basically two types of "die locking rings": One is a split and clamp-able ring with a screw that squeezes the C-ring together... The other has solid uncut ring with a set screw that actually 'seats on the die threads' . www.midwayusa.com/s?userSearchQuery=die+locking+rings
My preferred lock rings are the Hornadys. They do a great job. The issue in this video isn't really about keeping the die secure. I change my crimp setting a lot when changing bullets, so I don't mind the mushy Lee lock rings, since it makes things pretty easy to adjust.
Awesome series, learning a lot. Noticed something at about 28:40ish 4th shot medium crimp eldx something happens right before bullet impact. Idk either a fly lands and gets shot or the tip is flying before the bullet. Ideas thoughts?
I could use some advice. I have decided to load some 300 Blackout rounds (200 grain) on the fast side to 1200 fps with "Maker REX" bullets. Tried some Armscor 208 A-max (1200 fps) factory loads - advantage is reliable function, and reduced recoil. What do you think about powders? Thinking A5744 (availability), but since I'm going hot, what about H110? I am afraid that H110 might not fill the case enough or be too hot.
I really struggle with crimp vs. no crimp. Most of my 300 loads are no crimp to light. Your data seems to show light to medium crimp might be something I need to dig into a bit.
have you found a sub load for your 168 A-max's? I'm working on a 178 sub A-max/BTHP. I find better accuracy without crimping, could be because it allows me to seat longer?
Hey Johnny, Widener's will not ship the 147gr. General Dynamics bullets to CA, just for you and other reloads. If you want to be the middle man for me that would be cool, but...
Excellent video! I don't know if you know this or not, but when testing hand loaded Groups, you're supposed to eliminate the flier and measure the group of the other ones. Your groupings would actually be a lot tighter than what your vid shows.
When there's an obvious "flyer," you don't record it simply because it totally distorts what kind of group you had. If somehow you were bumped while shooting and had a foot-wide flyer, that would distort the dimensions of the rest of the group assuming the others were similarly together. Hope that helps.
+TandorRides Thanks. I don't think anyone's ever asked before. I have a pair of Canon R600's with Targus Pro Series tripods. Nothing fancy, but I've been happy with them for what I do. All of my struggles have been on the editing side. That's been a steep learning curve.
+fckurvtc My first videos were done with Windows Movie Maker, but once I started wanting to use multiple shots I had to upgrade. I used PowerDirector for about 6 months and absolutely hated it. It ran terrible on my computer. I just switched to Adobe Premiere Pro for the last 3 videos I've posted. I'm slowly getting the hang of it and I think it's going to allow me to clean up the presentation of my videos a lot. So far I love it. I am a complete idiot when it comes to editing, so a video of me making a video would be a tire fire.
Hi Johnny, first time watching your video, very good info and am now subscribed, but if you could possibly help me with an issue I have and been trying to fix... I also shoot a 16" barrel with 1:7 twist, (note: NY so not tax stamp allowed) my issue is I can not cycle subs at all, every sub or close to is a bad cycle or at the least no bolt open on empty.. (I've tried various mags) so after some research I finally drilled out my gas hole. (Before that I tried lighter buffer spring, and other simple things, with no luck) so after I drilled out the gas hole I did see a better improvement, but heavier subs above 150 seem to still be no good. The rifle shoots 110-150 supers great, but what's the difference between your rifle and mine, also running carbine length in my 16" 1:7... any ideas or recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
I am assuming you're using factory ammo? I haven't shot a lot of factory subsonics, but the ones I have were generally loaded with a very fast burning powder. I think they do this so the pistols and SBRs have similar velocity to the longer barrels like yours. Fast burning powders generally have a difficult time running carbine length gas systems. If you reload, I would suggest trying Accurate 1680, Hodgdon CFE BLK, or Alliant Reloder 7. Those are the three best powders I've used for carbine length gas systems. If you are stuck with factory ammo, I'm not sure what else you could do except continue to drill out the gas port. The only thing else I could think of is possibly a messed up gas key? Maybe the gas tube isn't mating properly with the key or something. You might try another BCG if you've got one available. The true fix is to buy a barrel with pistol length gas! I wish you luck!
Also, do you weigh your primers before you install them? A heavy primer indicates more priming compound and more starting pressure and is the most likely cause for fliers.
Inconsistencies in case neck brass wall thickness causes bullets to be off-center of bore axis. Turn the necks and use a collet die will solve the problem.
Could you please tell me what the meaning of the 'C' on the end of a measure in grains in a reloading chart? For example, 19.0C gr of IMR 4227. Thanks!
Compressed load. Compressed what had to be done to the powder in order to seat the bullet. As long as the pressure isn't too high its fine to do this. Some would use a hotter(faster burning) powder leaving more case capacity. Just make sure the case doesn't have too much empty space causing possible inconsistent burn.
Nah man, I've done it too. I worked up a good accurate load with my .308 and it wasn't till later than I noticed some flattening of the primer. Shit happens!
I don't get the crimp thing. Match bullets don't seem to have them while "hunting bullets do". If there is no cannelure, then you just rely on neck tension. So don't crimp it? (supposedly weakens neck tension without cannelure to bite into). ???
Rocky Mountain Reloading also sells them. These bullets aren't your best choice for subsonic velocities in 300 Blackout. Look for "pulled" 168 grain boat tails if you want to shoot cheap subsonic.
at 12:40, you completely missed the crimp area. The crimp area should barely be visible. I know this is a problem with 300 blkout but it is the purpose of the cannelured area on the bullet.
+David Peterson Completely missed is a bit of an overstatement. About half of the cannelure is below the case mouth and that was enough to crimp into. Having said that...I will definitely be seating them a bit deeper next time to be sure. Same with the 125gr SST's.
Johnny's Reloading Bench I have the same issue with 300 blkout. If I follow the seating depth, the full cannelure is exposed. Do not look at the case opening, look at where the crimp line is. The crimp line should be in the middle of the cannelure hence why the cannelure would barely be visible. Your crimp line is below the cannelure. Pull one of the projectiles and you will see what I mean.
I have yet to ever crimp 5.56/223 ammo for my AR's and have yet to have any issues....not saying you can't....I just have not seen it to be necessary...
Ahh 2016, the good ole days of a $0.16 projectile :)
You can still get 16 cent projectiles
Nothing better then a Johnnys reloading bench video in the morning!
Thank you for taking the time, money, and effort to make your videos. They have been very informative and fascinating. I appreciate it.
I have learned more from your series of videos on reloading than I have in 5 years of doing it myself. Thanks so much for doing this!
+Rick Smith Thanks, man. That means a lot. I'm having a lot of fun with this stuff and don't plan to quit any time soon!
Your videos should be mandatory viewing for any person that is learning to reload. 300BLK series is awesome.
Very helpful video. I just received my first Lee factory crimp die (300 BLK) and will be setting it and up and using it soon. I was surprised at the results. Conventional wisdom, if I remember correctly, is that crimping hurts accuracy. However, this video showed it did not. In fact, it improved accuracy.
watching these videos makes me really appreciate my lee progressive press with removable turrets
Liking where your head is at....handy way of indexing LFCD. Thanks for the lead on the military surplus ammo supplies. Great video's Keep them coming.
You are the MAN! I’m a newer reloader and often have many random questions I either can’t find enough information about OR can’t get a good visual on what’s being explained. You do a GREAT job of both. Thanks!
Good work and very helpful. Medium crimp
I'm sure glad you are as thorough as you are and your interests in reloading are so similar to mine because you save me a lot of time, money and experimentation. I hunt deer in northern Michigan with the 300 BO so your experimentation with that caliber is of high interest to me. The way you present information is very "conversational" and it's as if I'm in the same room with a buddy working out different loads, etc. Great Job and thanks a lot.
Great test so meidum is just about right.
Waiting to see some new videos from you soon
Great video!.I just started reloading 300 blackout, and this really clarified how to set up the crimp die. Thank you so much.
Johnny, you would make a helluva H.
S. Science teacher. You'd have them on the edge of their seats!
The man that taught me how to reload had me push the bullet into the table. If it moved needed a tighter crimp. Also, tap it on the table that may move it. Nice Vid Thanks
Very good job. Thank you for the time and effort you have put in to this. Cheers
Thanks a lot! Glad you enjoyed it.
Thanks for this video. It confirms my personal thoughts on the hot topic of contention regarding crimping. I've always been one to crimp everything when running semi-auto rifles and pistols. You didn't have any major accuracy issues even on the non-cannellure bullets. I always crimp my 168 and 175 SMK for 308 SR25 loads and get half MOA to 3/4 MOA and I'm happy with that. Everyone always screaming at me "NEVER CRIMP EVER EVER EVA" and even if I show my groups and brass with no pressure signs they call it lucky. If the military does it, I'm gonna do it. Thanks for the vindication. Anyhow, what I'm really interested in is the functional 147gr subsonic rounds you got there. I have that powder, and I have thousands of Hornady 150gr FMJ-C's that I can try this with. You mean I don't have to spend .45 cents a round anymore on those 220 gr SMK's? AWESOME. Never even thought to try it.
Oh, have you tried that new Hornady CFE-BLK powder yet? Just got 16 pounds ordered but won't be home until March to try it out. Would be cool to see you try out some loads.....others are having great results with it.
Thanks again sir. Subbed.
At first I was gonna talk some shit about not using a turret at least buuuut I like where you're going being able to get down into the more detailed parts of reloading while keeping it interesting and informative for those who are new to the game. Good job!!
Thank you for all your videos. I am also a .300 BLK shooter and loader. When you did your videos about sizing dies, I detected one, what I would call a major oversight. It has to do with setting the case shoulder dimension during full length sizing. I do not setup my press the way you do. I use a Sheridan Engineering (or a Wilson case gauge) to establish the position of the shoulder. A case length gauge will allow you to set the sizing die in the correct position so that you do not set the shoulder back too far (or not far enough). The case length gauge has two steps ground into it. You simply screw the die into the press until the head of the case falls between the two steps. It's just that simple. Thanks again for your videos. Best regards, Gene B.
Hi Jonny, I shoot M1 Garand and Springfield M1A NM since 1987. I recently became concerned about bullet movement on chambering. My M1 Garand experienced (dummy rounds with the actual bullet seated to proper depth) with the CBTO being increased by about .003” after two single load chamberings. My M1A experienced the opposite result. The bullets were set back into the brass, I figured that was due to the chamber ramp feed causing resistance.
That aside, I just purchased a LEE 30-06 factory crimp die. I saw how you were struggling to quantify the crimp value. I’m a retired Mechanical Engineer, don’t hold that against me! I am trying to quantify the crimp setting setup. I am trying by using feeler gauges to measure the collet gaps (2) that are across from each other. On my die, the state (no ram force applied) measures 0.032” on both collet 180 deg. opposed slots. At the LEE directed shell holder touch plus 1/2 I measured both gaps at 0.013”. The amount of crimp is still subjective, appearance, but maybe this method of quantifying the die will make repeatability easier. The only other consideration is the loaded cartridge neck O.D. before crimping. May have to alter for brass neck thickness. Just, an idea.
Use a collet die that shrinks the neck so that the mouth is that magical .002” less than actual bullet O.D. But do it after you turn the case necks. Blew me away at the case mouth brass thickness variations along it’s circumference. Only turn them enough so that you have cutter marks on about 7/8th of the total circumference. Don’t let the cutter touch the thinnest areas. These two operations will yield surprising accuracy improvements since the bullet is now properly centered and in correct alignment with the rifle bore. Once these operations are done, you can lightly crimp if you want to, but your bullet tension is already set. And as always, if you can see your crimp, you’ve crimped too hard.
I know this is old… but you need to crimp to prevent the bullet from moving out as you chamber a round. It doesn’t get pushed in like everyone thinks. It moves out like a puller.
Very interesting, good job. Thanks!
The thing about having a crimp is that the bullet is held back in the case allowing the powder to build pressure as it starts to burn for a more complete burn and to allow the bullet to be under decent pressure so that when it starts moving and hits the rifling, it does so under a strong enough force that the bullet is less inclined to pause until pressure builds enough to force it along down the barrel.
I kept thinking that deer was going to get shot to pieces at the end of the video. Then I was like "Naw, he wouldn't do that.."
35:23 Confirmed, Johnny has an ass manual.
Good vid. Gathering things to start loading .300blk, and was curious about the crimp setting. This helped a lot. Thanks!
Very interesting, definitely one video to add for reference.
Found it very informative, definitely think I will get the lee crimp and do some crimp testing very nice build by the way!
Thanks! Glad you found the video ok. I've become a big fan of the FCD's and use them for pretty much everything except bolt actions these days.
First, this is a very good, informative video. Thanks for doing this. I am working on trying to improve group size on an AR Stoner barrel, that has not been impressive with factory loads. And just need to make some because it is not available from stores. I wish you had chronographed this, but the data is good enough. I agree with you that most of the group size differences are insignificant, at least with that amount of data you have so far. The 147 grain heavy crimp group was effected by the velocity in and out of the sound barrier, but again nothing too dramatic. I liked your method for determining the medium crimp and I intend to replicate it. Looks like I have 18 more videos to watch. Hopefully they are all this informative.
I also got bit by ZmidwayUSA’s house brand AR Stoner $89 barrel
Shame you didn't chronograph them mate.
I'd suggest that the reason why quite a few of your heavier crimped subs went supersonic was due to an increase in pressure and consequently velocity from crimping.
Thanks for the insight mate I've been enjoying your videos.
1. Measure case mouth after seating bullet.
2. Measure case mouth after crimping.
3. You now have a crimp that can be repeated or varied as necessary.
Nice touch on the doe relaxing
I realize this is an older video, but I certainly think you used the Lee Crimp Die set up improperly. You set it up with the case in place and then after making contact turn it in. You are set up to over crimp the way you set it up. Just saying it doesn't hurt to read directions. I use Lee Crimp dies all the time to at least have a light crimp for consistency.
On the subject of repeatable crimps, I'm using the Lee FCD as well, but then I found the Redding Micrometer adjustable taper crimp die and it is quite amazing. Not cheap, but if repeatability is a problem, it might be just the ticket....
It does stick to the brass a little.....so if running progressive, it might bother you....I'm still running the FCD on my 1050 though, because I haven't had any issues, but it's great for precision rounds in the future.
The heavy crimp 147 gr shot bad because they all ran right at the sound barrier. Thats a rough place.lol
Your Videos are awesome.. Keep up the good work..
+Thorsaxe777 They're a lot of fun to make! Thanks for watching.
I like your instruction.. I'm an experienced Hand Loader and I see you get Frustrated, have to read the instructions more that once.. It's all good though.. I have that thing going on with me too..
good stuff.
So I guess the question is, what's the difference between crimp, and neck tension, when dealing with let's say, factory ammo? Are the factory dies doing something special/specific to maybe set a particular neck diameter to affect the performance of their loads? And.... Is that something to consider when handloading ammo, to ensure proper pressures and also controlling set back...??
Man that's a lot of experimentation to conduct, to see what works best. You would think the easiest way to control set back would be the Lee factory crimp die...but, if you had the proper die, you could also set your neck tension for best performance and also control set back.
That's a huge HMMMMMM.....
#1 Thanks a million for posting all your hard work.
#2 They need to increase production and distribution of Accurate 1680!
#3 I need a piece of property where I can shoot and test my loads. driving 30 minutes to test 4 strings of 5 rounds suuuucks!
Anyway, based on your excellent research, I was able to get my 8.3" to cycle and lock unsuppressed with 220gr using Alliant Reloader 7. That's awesome! But because of your videos, I now considered 1680 as a holy grail of subsonic power for .300 blackout. Even AAC recommends using 1680!
I suspect that .300BLK ammo manufacturers are snatching up all the 1680, by any contract, wholesale, or retail means necessary to meet the commercial demand.
Q: Have you noticed any cycling issues with your subs suppressed vs unsuppressed, and with your 8 inch vs your 16 inch?
As if you don't a lot going on, but I'd love to see you redo those 147gr subs WITH hand thrown charges. I was rooting for a singlr ragged hole with 147gr heavy crimp!
I swear I can't trust a mechanical powder thrower. I only feel safe doing it by hand.
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!
+RETiredGM Thanks for watching! I agree on the 1680. They need to start cranking this stuff out. Reloder 7 is definitely my #2 favorite subsonic powder right now. I'm about to start a bunch of subsonic bullet testing and I can't wait to see how it stacks up against 1680.
Having a range out back is really awesome. Now that I've got a suppressor it's even better. I've got some neighbors that aren't too far away and I always hate to think that I'm annoying the hell out of them all the time.
I am just now getting the 16" broken in and feeling confident that it's operating like it should. So far, so good. The bullet testing that's coming up will answer the question about cycling between the 8 and 16 inch barrels. I would love to have a load that will run both guns suppressed and unsuppressed. I feel quite certain that it will be possible with 1680 and RL 7. Getting bolt lock-back with the 16" unsupressed will be the problem. That might not be possible, but we'll see.
I will be doing a massive video about the 147gr subs. I want to test them for function and accuracy with hand weighed charges of all 6 powders. We'll be shooting a lot of ammo in that video.
+Johnny's Reloading Bench Outstanding on all points. I'm looking forward to all things 300 blackout/reloading related. Thanks!
That's great show since I tried figure why black hill .300 matchking keep jam sometime wont ejected. So I have been learned from you said crimp think didnt have crimp might that's why stuck inside chambers. Other everything fine like seller bellet 147 gr FMJ and everything except matchking trouble. Thanks
I think you need to seat them a little deeper so the crimping occurs right in the middle of the crimp groove. Awesome video, I've learned something, how to find repeatable crimp.
The lock ring locks the crimp position so that you can repeat the setting.
Idea for a Johnny's Reloading Bench T-shirt. "let's see what happens..."
"let's try to not blow our face off" is my fav
Andrew Hollywood definitely :)
Ah F it is my favorite
Reloading die Locking rings...."do exist".... IF ALWAYS USING SAME PRESS AND SAME SHELL HOLDER... Setting repeatability with a LOCKED ring , which includes "some sort of set screw" is a real possibility. There are basically two types of "die locking rings": One is a split and clamp-able ring with a screw that squeezes the C-ring together... The other has solid uncut ring with a set screw that actually 'seats on the die threads' . www.midwayusa.com/s?userSearchQuery=die+locking+rings
My preferred lock rings are the Hornadys. They do a great job. The issue in this video isn't really about keeping the die secure. I change my crimp setting a lot when changing bullets, so I don't mind the mushy Lee lock rings, since it makes things pretty easy to adjust.
Johnny's Reloading Bench
I APPRECIATE YOUR DATA TIME AND EXPENSE FOR YOUR RANGE TESTS THANK YOU !
36:33 My total knowledge of reloading at the moment. I think I need to watch more videos
Use a Hornady lock ring on the LEE Factory Crimp die and tighten to the same torque using the lock-ring wrench. Works for me. Dave & The Girls
Awesome series, learning a lot. Noticed something at about 28:40ish 4th shot medium crimp eldx something happens right before bullet impact. Idk either a fly lands and gets shot or the tip is flying before the bullet. Ideas thoughts?
U need a Lee Press, noticed the COL varies.
I could use some advice. I have decided to load some 300 Blackout rounds (200 grain) on the fast side to 1200 fps with "Maker REX" bullets. Tried some Armscor 208 A-max (1200 fps) factory loads - advantage is reliable function, and reduced recoil. What do you think about powders? Thinking A5744 (availability), but since I'm going hot, what about H110? I am afraid that H110 might not fill the case enough or be too hot.
I really struggle with crimp vs. no crimp. Most of my 300 loads are no crimp to light. Your data seems to show light to medium crimp might be something I need to dig into a bit.
How Did the Accurate 1680 performed for 300 BLK? It's easier to get on the shelf over the H110 or Win 296. Thank you for the video.
have you found a sub load for your 168 A-max's? I'm working on a 178 sub A-max/BTHP. I find better accuracy without crimping, could be because it allows me to seat longer?
Did you ever find a mid weight 308 projectile, kinda like the 55gr Hornady FMJ/Bobs's 55s? For cheap shooting in the 1-2" groups
Hey Johnny, Widener's will not ship the 147gr. General Dynamics bullets to CA, just for you and other reloads. If you want to be the middle man for me that would be cool, but...
Excellent video! I don't know if you know this or not, but when testing hand loaded Groups, you're supposed to eliminate the flier and measure the group of the other ones. Your groupings would actually be a lot tighter than what your vid shows.
Not my idea, that's just what everyone says to do
When there's an obvious "flyer," you don't record it simply because it totally distorts what kind of group you had. If somehow you were bumped while shooting and had a foot-wide flyer, that would distort the dimensions of the rest of the group assuming the others were similarly together. Hope that helps.
Great video, sorry I have to ask. How did you record you shooting plus the target at the same time? I just subscribed to your channel. nice job
Thanks, brother. I use a separate camera for the target then combine the footage with video editing software. Thanks for the sub!
How long did you let the barrel cool between shots / groups?
does a medium to light crimp affect neck concentricity?
Another great video! I don't remember if you ever said, but what cameras do you use to record your videos? Thanks
+TandorRides Thanks. I don't think anyone's ever asked before. I have a pair of Canon R600's with Targus Pro Series tripods. Nothing fancy, but I've been happy with them for what I do. All of my struggles have been on the editing side. That's been a steep learning curve.
+Johnny's Reloading Bench what do you use to edit your videos? Want to pump out a video on that process?
+fckurvtc My first videos were done with Windows Movie Maker, but once I started wanting to use multiple shots I had to upgrade. I used PowerDirector for about 6 months and absolutely hated it. It ran terrible on my computer. I just switched to Adobe Premiere Pro for the last 3 videos I've posted. I'm slowly getting the hang of it and I think it's going to allow me to clean up the presentation of my videos a lot. So far I love it. I am a complete idiot when it comes to editing, so a video of me making a video would be a tire fire.
Johnny's Reloading Bench would love an update on you're video / camera stuff
Have you done a video comparing crimps to velocity?
No real difference
Stop the video!! Did you say you are loading subsonic 147 grain?!!! Let me go get a drink and some popcorn for this one..
Hi Johnny, first time watching your video, very good info and am now subscribed, but if you could possibly help me with an issue I have and been trying to fix... I also shoot a 16" barrel with 1:7 twist, (note: NY so not tax stamp allowed) my issue is I can not cycle subs at all, every sub or close to is a bad cycle or at the least no bolt open on empty.. (I've tried various mags) so after some research I finally drilled out my gas hole. (Before that I tried lighter buffer spring, and other simple things, with no luck) so after I drilled out the gas hole I did see a better improvement, but heavier subs above 150 seem to still be no good. The rifle shoots 110-150 supers great, but what's the difference between your rifle and mine, also running carbine length in my 16" 1:7... any ideas or recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
I am assuming you're using factory ammo? I haven't shot a lot of factory subsonics, but the ones I have were generally loaded with a very fast burning powder. I think they do this so the pistols and SBRs have similar velocity to the longer barrels like yours.
Fast burning powders generally have a difficult time running carbine length gas systems.
If you reload, I would suggest trying Accurate 1680, Hodgdon CFE BLK, or Alliant Reloder 7. Those are the three best powders I've used for carbine length gas systems.
If you are stuck with factory ammo, I'm not sure what else you could do except continue to drill out the gas port. The only thing else I could think of is possibly a messed up gas key? Maybe the gas tube isn't mating properly with the key or something. You might try another BCG if you've got one available.
The true fix is to buy a barrel with pistol length gas! I wish you luck!
All my BO testing shows that 147-160 grain bullets don't perform in 16 inch barrels. 110 grain with highest precision.
Also, do you weigh your primers before you install them?
A heavy primer indicates more priming compound and more starting pressure and is the most likely cause for fliers.
Inconsistencies in case neck brass wall thickness causes bullets to be off-center of bore axis. Turn the necks and use a collet die will solve the problem.
Could you please tell me what the meaning of the 'C' on the end of a
measure in grains in a reloading chart? For example, 19.0C gr of IMR
4227. Thanks!
If I were to guess, it probably means a compressed load.
Compressed load. Compressed what had to be done to the powder in order to seat the bullet. As long as the pressure isn't too high its fine to do this. Some would use a hotter(faster burning) powder leaving more case capacity. Just make sure the case doesn't have too much empty space causing possible inconsistent burn.
Did you see any pressure signs on the brass with the heavy crimp?
+Conan Mills I have to be honest...I really didn't look closely. All of the loads were pretty mild so I didn't expect issues. Pretty dumb on my part.
Nah man, I've done it too. I worked up a good accurate load with my .308 and it wasn't till later than I noticed some flattening of the primer. Shit happens!
Why would you not use shims under your lock ring to adj the amount of crimp for repeatability!!!
I use a caliper to see how much was crimped
does anybody measure with a caliper micrometer !
I don't get the crimp thing. Match bullets don't seem to have them while "hunting bullets do". If there is no cannelure, then you just rely on neck tension. So don't crimp it? (supposedly weakens neck tension without cannelure to bite into). ???
Agrippa 2K you taper crimp bullets without a cannelure
Just noticed Channel name change.
+John Hoskins It rolls off the tongue a little easier. Never really liked the original name.
+Johnny's Reloading Bench I was looking through my feed wondering who the fuck this Johnny guy was.. Then it clicked.
Why is it easy to hit something with a 30 dollar BB gun at Walmart than a damn rifle. Like hell my groups are super tight with a bb.
What was the place you got the 147 gr bullet from?
+bassetthound2008 Wideners. They have some great deals on bulk bullets. No complaints about my order. Quick shipping. www.wideners.com/
Rocky Mountain Reloading also sells them. These bullets aren't your best choice for subsonic velocities in 300 Blackout. Look for "pulled" 168 grain boat tails if you want to shoot cheap subsonic.
+TOBORE8THMAN I don't have .300 blackout. I shoot
.30-06 out of a bolt action.
bassetthound2008
I like pancakes
I'm sorry ,but you cannot do accuracy testing with out a rock solid rest/hold....especially at 100 yards....still interesting stuff though thanks
at 12:40, you completely missed the crimp area. The crimp area should barely be visible. I know this is a problem with 300 blkout but it is the purpose of the cannelured area on the bullet.
+David Peterson Completely missed is a bit of an overstatement. About half of the cannelure is below the case mouth and that was enough to crimp into. Having said that...I will definitely be seating them a bit deeper next time to be sure. Same with the 125gr SST's.
Johnny's Reloading Bench I have the same issue with 300 blkout. If I follow the seating depth, the full cannelure is exposed. Do not look at the case opening, look at where the crimp line is. The crimp line should be in the middle of the cannelure hence why the cannelure would barely be visible. Your crimp line is below the cannelure. Pull one of the projectiles and you will see what I mean.
+David Peterson the Lee FCD is designed to work on bullets with and without a crimp ring..
I have yet to ever crimp 5.56/223 ammo for my AR's and have yet to have any issues....not saying you can't....I just have not seen it to be necessary...