Why DNF Duel failed where Guilty Gear Strive succeeded
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2024
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#dnfduel #dnf #fgc #berserker #fightinggamecommunity #youtube #fightgamer #gamer #dungeonfighteronline #fighter #strive #guiltygear
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As someone living in Korea the problem with DNF DUEL was Nexon , korea nexon is famous for wasting money in game and not suport them... that was the case on DNF duel ( DNF was suppose to be a high bagde DFO ad ) in the beginner they didnt expected people to actually like the game and do tornment about , everything change when Evo and ArkEvo was huge for DNF and the sell was higher than nexon expected. So they needed to commisio Arscsy for season 1 even been a bit late so they went for the most famous class in all DFO the SPECTRE to create hype while they finishing all season 1 propably they will anunce more character when they do SPECTRE reveal trailer
yeah I have heard from basically everyone who is familiar with Nexon that they are to blame. I do remember playing maple story and cash shop was outrageous but it was mostly PvE so it wasn't much of an issue. Hopefully spectre brings in numbers and they are forced to take the game more seriously
My experience with DFO is very limited (only played for a month right after the announcement of DNF Duel; mained Inquisitor) and while there were good things, you could definitely _feel_ the game strong-arming you into spending money, primarily by severely limiting the amount of things you could do F2P.
I feel DFO could be a much bigger thing worldwide if only it had a better new-player experience.
@@BknMoonStudios DFO looks crazy to me, I like a lot of the concept but it just looks like game from 15 years ago. Im surprised its continued to exist without overhaul but I think at this point they probably focus more on player retention than attracting new players
If you had to guess when do you think they will release Spectre?
@@kenshin391 probably before SF6 release probably February or March
I think another aspect to dwindling player numbers for DNF was just the fact that it's trying to chase an audience that already has a game they're playing now. These last few years have been a substansial explosion period in the FGC. KOF, Melty, Guilty Gear, Multiversus, DNF, Granblue, all of these were big profile releases that were happening within the last 2 years, many of which asking for premium price in a genre that tends to be seen as either too content-thin for the price to casual audiences or a heavy commitment of time and effort to genre-enthusiasts. On top of this, older titles like Persona 4 Arena have seen modern console re-releases, some oldies like Skullgirls and Jojo All-Star Battle have resurfaced with a new lifeline and games like GG+R, BB Centralfiction, KOF 2002 and GG Xrd started tinkering with Rollback implementation, unearthing these old games for newer audiences. All the while, games like Tekken, Street Fighter and Smash Brothers were still in their support cycles. Hell, we have yet to even see the end of new announcements, with games like Yomi Hustle, Project L, Tekken 8 and Street Fighter 6 still around the corner.
In a very short couple of years, the FGC has become a very crowded space as companies are all trying to catch the slipstream that a few years of growth in fighters helped set in motion. Strive just happened to come out in precisely the right time and right way. In 2021, Strive managed to beat alot of these other releases to the punch. On top of that, +R's netcode update gave audiences that were waiting for the game a chance to whet their apetites while also enticing new players with a cheap alternative to test the waters with. While Tekken 7 still boasted bigger sales figures, it was old enough, that Strive had a new position to overtake it as a fresh game for people to get into. While the new audience is eager to try a bunch of games out, ultimately players tend to gravitate back towards the same thing they've already been playing, in this case Strive. When Strive came out, it's competition was mostly older games people would've already been more tired of. DNF is up against the new face of fighting games in the 2020s. Fresh and still populated, it's hard to siphon time and attention away from it and will continue to until something significantly big shakes things up and DNF was never going to have that draw as a property.
great point, fighting games have so many options now and if you are going to exist in the space you need something to hold people's attention. If you aren't going to keep up with the game people are going to just play for a few weeks and then jump back to strive/SFV/Tekken 8.... like people did
@@flowchartk3n
It's the ultimate fate of any genre that sells itself primarily on a PvP emphesis. Your game lives and dies on it's community's terms, not the developers' or the game's as much. Good or bad, if your comptetitive game has no players, there kinda is no game to speak of. It's why so many PvP-focused games have preferred adopting an F2P game-model, because your ability to try, play and come back to it takes significantly less commitment. It makes me wonder if such a model would have longer term success in fighters. It's still relatively new ground to tread, as the only famous example currently is Killer Instinct. With Project L around the corner, I'm curious to see how it pans out.
Now, this can also be majorly helped by having PvE content to grind at as well, to both make the base-game more worth your while and give you something to keep you on the hook, even when you might not always have people to play the game with. I think Namco in particular had historically used this to great effect with their titles. Tekken and Soul Calibur were for a long time very engaging, because they put emphesis on players getting value from the game with or without people to play with using singleplayer modes and having alot to unlock and work towards, both settling players into the game and giving them less reason to put the game down at any given time. If you ask me, I think it was one of the major helping factors that gave Tekken an edge during the transition period from arcades to consoles, while other franchises saw their numbers begin to falter.
@@AlluMan96 THat's also the problem though, f2P model will make games severely more expensive, for those like me who is not a choosy bitch with their characters. I usually buy all DLC to have every single character available. As 1- I don't like seeing empty spots on character selection screens and 2- I like playing all characters so I can properly learn matchups and how to counter each move. I'm not the kind of player who gets good on matches, I'm the kind of player who gets good on lab.
@@bloody4558
I'd say that part is up to the developers, honestly. If adjusted accordingly, the logical answer would be that an F2P fighter would calculate how much individual characters would cost, so that the starting roster would add up to the cost the game would demand anyway. Either that, or you center your monetization model on cosmetics. The cast is free, but what you buy are costumes and the like.
Of the two, I prefer the idea of the latter. I agree that having access to all fighters at all times is the way to go. I ask the question mostly rhetorically, thinking on it from a broader perspective versus my core-audience perspective. To someone not into fighting games, the 40-60€ asking price of most fighters is incredibly poor value when compared to what that money can get them in other genres.
Ain't reading all that shit but how dare you say multiverse it's a child's game
I was expecting a hot take, but this was a concise and well balanced opinion. Nice job. I agree, communication with the player base is essential to retaining interest.
lukewarm at worst. I feel like for all the criticism the game gets not enough people talk about how terrible the communication has been.
I think its a good game that can survive on its own merit but there has to be some leeway from the devs or people will just call it dead and move on.
It's maybe a dumb reason, but something so dumb like Jack-O doing a funny pose is enough to track some attention from new potential players, a meme that trascends the FGC niche to the general public is a pretty strong point to give new life to a game
Yeah any marketing. Give me the fucning grappler grabber master super challenge or some shit. Just acknowledge the game exists and is still going
Also May’s dolphins
@@demiurge2501 TOTSUGEKI
@@flowchartk3n i feel like that's the difference with Strive, just overall social media noise and being part of the 'Trending' tab for a while would've helped but alas....
My experience with DNF, knowing nothing about it was “ hey these characters look cool and have good archetypes and arcsys is working on it so it’ll probably be a great game” which, for a while it was a blast. Aesthetically its beautiful, and it can be alot of fun, my personal issue with it is that after a while when the honeymoon phase is over you kinda see that it feels like, while it does have some depth, its lacking compared to others in the same genre, and ultimately I ended up returning to Strive and DBFZ shortly after. Routes, options you name it.
Also, I think the biggest plague with the game is the fact that after it was released, the company involved just kinda stopped supporting it, which only works if the game’s IP is large enough to sustain itself, and even then is usually a death sentence. DNF, while a great project, just isnt able to stand on its own without some kind of support, and by the time it actually did get support most players had already migrated back to what they were playing originally. I still think its a great game and an interesting series, but the developers really didnt do much to aid in retaining that interest, so overall it feels like its potential was squandered by negligence.
I do think it has more depth than people give it credit for, but agree with everything else. DFO is not a strong enough property to support itself indefinitely without dev support and updates. Nexon/Neople/whoever was in charge were not willing to do that. They are trying now, may or may not be too late but the damage is done for a lot of people.
Strive? Depth?
DFO is one of my favorite MMO's growing up and when I heard about DNF I was so happy. When I played it, it was one of my favorite fighting games of all time, it had everything I liked about old and new fighting games in one. But I was so upset how little attention it's been getting support wise from Nexon. I am still playing the game but everyone else was leaving because it looks like Nexon/ArcSys/8ing abandoned the game.
I'm so happy its finally getting updated in the way I wanted and hope Monk gets announced sometime in the future but I wish they communicated with the community that bought the game earlier.
Great video.
I think they will at least come out with 1 season of DLC, and monk is the second most popular character behind spectre so great chance he makes it at some point.
I often think they should have just released the game in November instead of June if this was what they wanted to do but I think that implies more forethought then they put into it. I still believe Spectre DLC is a money printer and hopefully this is the reassurance they need to actually continue to put time into the game.
DFO Global MMO exists.
You guys are like kids who constantly need attention. Just play the fucking game
@@callofmetals24 ? I promise you I play the game more than you do. What do you mean?
@@flowchartk3n I just posted my comment bro
You forgot the most important reason. Strive is really just a $60 album that comes with a free game and movie
Strive music has no reason to go as hard as it does. Love the subhuman self is so good man
a lack of story and character personality will kill any game
This one is funny to me because I basically never touch story mode in a fighting game but I understand that most people want one. And the DNF duel story mode is just vs matches with a slideshow which is pretty weak
Def agree. Communication is key and I think Arc learned that with BBTAG. Main difference here though is DNF isn’t their game and Neople literally just wanted to see DNF Duel be a thing to see what’d happen.
Hopefully they’ve now decided to commit to the game.
This is the best case imo. Pretty easy to believe that nexon basically said "we don't do fighting games / we've never done a DFO spinoff. Let's just throw it out and see how it goes"
Hoping the renewed interest and the spectre simping will convince them to put more resources into extending the games life span
So you see what has happened. And you guys still bitch and moan? So sick of TH-camrs and the dweebs they bring out
@@callofmetals24 I definitely think you can enjoy something while still criticizing it for its shortcomings. I feel like I preface every video by saying I love DNF duel and think its a great game. That doesn't mean it is without fault
@@flowchartk3n you are turning ppl away from the game man but ok. I've had to fight and scratch for this shit. We all up in FGC shit posting on Facebook encouraging people on the basics. Great netcode. That's all we want. PvP. With all due respect
Over 100 concurrent players per day?! This is HUGE
There are dozens of us!
Along with no communication, the game is fun to watch but hardly fun to play unless faced with a balanced match up. Which there was almost none. You would only see characters with loops or crazy DMG potential or tools being played. Just getting spammed into oblivion. The balancing was absolutely horrendous. It was basically what if we made everyone busted and then some characters benefitted way more than others.
Literally it was like some characters were just the end all be all to the game like Inquisitor, launcher, Berserker if you knew his loop, Crusader and Hit man. Those Characters were pretty much all I ever encountered. Trouble shooter was really good but not turn your game off it's Inquisitor good. I myself play Ranger and know some fairly decent combo routes depending on my distance. But when Berserker can dash under a few normals and proceed to loop me with the only deciding factor being if he messes up. It's not fun. Or crusader places a wall behind you and now you're free to get spammed by his hammer until the wall goes away or he messes up. Once a launcher hits you, you better kiss the ground good bye Cause your never touching it again. Even with Striker basically infinite block string she was better to fight against than those I mentioned. I don't want to see anymore buffs, I want to see some nerfs and taming of some characters who dominate.
I hate to be the one to tell you this but launcher is unanimously the worst character in the game. She can be annoying to play against (she is a zoner) but there is not one good player who will make the argument that she is a good character. Inq is also pretty close to the bottom tier.
If you struggle vs launcher you may be having a hard time reading her gaps or maximizing your hits. Launcher will normally hit the other player more but will usually end up losing because the other person will need to hit her less.
Some nerfs would benefit the game. Character jump normal have way too much hit stun. And the meter system, why not make it like old fighting games
After seeing how you deal with all these people in the comments you have earned a sub.
I like DNF alot but after a little bit playing the game everyone left so I played GGS more. (I got both around the same time) I only like one character in strive tho (Jacko-O) but i guess sometimes thats enough. I discovered there are people in the player matches so Im back to DNF. Still dont know when that DLC is coming out and not looking forward to seeing the player base return for a week and then disappearing for every character release, wasting my money on a a month of ps plus.
Hey thanks, I think most of the comments I get are actually pretty reasonable takes tbh.
I feel you on the community coming back for DLC. Unfortunately I think DNF now has that cadence where new content will bring people in but not hold them. I could be wrong, and I hope I am, but that's what its looking like.
this is also why melty is able to hold its own decently well, french bread is constantly pushing out new content that is completely free might i add, and continues to listen to what players want, want shield nerfs? got ya, want rapid beat off? got ya, want old songs back? got ya, want effint neco arc in the game, hell yea we got ya
Melty's updates have been great. I don't even play the game I and know the Post-Evo shield changes were huge. Also free DLC is unheard of at this point. Makes it insane to me that people are complaining about the count DLC like bro this shit is free you know what I would pay for DLC right now -_-
DFO Duel is a niche Eighting (8ing) style fighting game based on DFO which 95% of player base, profits and popularity come from China, while Guilty Gear is semi-famous ArkSystems franchise that has been running for quite a while. Simple as that.
I See. Thank You For This Video. I have a question for you. What makes a fighting game keeps its audience? What makes them loose their audience?
Great question
I think its a combination of a lot of factors. For DNF specifically, the devs needed to prove DNF Duel was a real actual supported game and not just a cash grab by the devs to expand the DFO IP into another genre. No one was expecting them to put millions into it, but the fact that they hyped up a patch after 2 months of silence and it was a hotfix, into 6 more months of silence made it seem like they had abandoned the game. This isn't something GG had to worry about because they got in front of it and released roadmaps right away.
The thing people (myself included) have to realize is that there are multiple target audiences for games like this and they need to be pandered to differently. Nexon is likely used to being able to just release an update and have DFO players be excited for it with little to no marketing because they game has been ongoing for 15 years and they already have a thriving community. That is not the case in the west and that isn't something they could get away with here. I am the most niche market for them, the "enthusiast" level of fighting game player. I will play a game for hundreds of hours and need little to no marketing in order to find out more about it. But I am not the level of customer they need, they cannot afford to primarily look for niche customers (me) within an already niche market (fighting game players) if they want to survive.
To put it more succinctly:
BAD:
- Lack of communication is always a problem, but in the case of DNF it was even worse because of Nexon history
- Lack of updates will kill interest from casuals, who will not play the same game over and over again
- Lack of knowledge of the DFO IP in the west meant that they could not rely on existing popularity.
GOOD:
- Guilty gear used marketing to appeal to people who had not played fighting games before rather than rely on the name brand
- GG also immediately announced updates for the next year plus, including multiple new characters
- GG made a spectacle of every patch and character, reaching to out FGC figures to help advertise
There are people who liked the game and disliked the game for legitimate reasons, and that isn't something marketing or communication can fix. But when the game releases with shaky (being generous) balance and absolutely no promise that it will even be fixed or added to you get a situation like DNF where the playerbase is really hyped for 2 weeks and then shrinks to 1/100th the size in 2 months.
@@flowchartk3n Thank You For Your Answer! This Is Well Explained!
My biggest gripe is that they drop support I mean I never really knew dungeon fighter but when I looked at all the classes they have holy s*** there's so many that they can use but they don't use DLC and that's the problem besides everyone being able to go ape s*** on everybody
Yeah massive wasted opportunity if they cant get other classes in there. DFO heads are definitely saying there are at least 5 more classes that deserve to be added
It's funny the thumbnail said "lesson learned?" When strive came before, more like lesson unlearned
Ha yeah - I actually meant I hope they learned the lesson that the game will die if they go dark 6 months at a time, and do take notes from strive. Crazy to think they had a blueprint for successful updates and decided to chuck it out the window
@@flowchartk3n i dont think its so much for always updating with the community i mean isnt that how the standard fighting game works anyways? u only get one or two updates per season and that's it, especially on new releases. it was starting out and its expected for a new fighting game to not get updates while still young at least from what i experienced/seen on other 'top' fighting games. maybe they shouldve been more aggressive with marketing and putting it out there on social media or just keep reaching out to fgc celebs to play this game more and less on talking about it being dead or failed
It's honestly way more then that to the point I feel it's almost silly to compare the two games since Guilty gear is just an out right superior game from the top down.
One game was made with the goal to be a multi seasonal sucessful game on both the casual and serious level
While the other was just meant to be a quick cash grab party game.
I liked GG and played it a lot, getting to heaven multiple times. To say that DNF is a party game is just not true. It has similar depth with a different design style, balancing around extremely high damage and slower neutral.
I can't disagree that the perception exists (and is very possible) that Nexon is using this game as a pure cash grab. I can only hope that they see the potential in it and continue to support it, especially if Spectre sells well.
I think there is some nuance between purely pushing shovelware for money and using a niche game to expand an IP. Similar to Granblue and Cygames, DNF Duel is never going to be the top priority for Nexon because DFO will always be the cash cow. That doesn't mean the game is bad or that it can't be supported.
Facts
@@flowchartk3nI fail to see the depth of the slower neutral when everybody has moves that hit half the screen. It took me 1 open beta to decide this game was not worth my time and I’m glad it died so fast. Hopefully it gets people to wake up and see things for what they truly are going forward
@@PSNMirru I maintain there is nuance to it but it's not for everyone. The addition of full screen normals without air blocking is definitely something people are not all going to enjoy
The Spectre trailer was an exciting announcement, but DnF Duel definitely needed a road map during the trailer. That way this would incentivize players something to get hyped for. 😶
Completely agree. Strive did such a good job showing people what was coming and sticking to it. It would be okay to go dark for months at a time if people has something to refer back to and look forward to
Short attention span addicted to gaming mfs
@@flowchartk3n get dude how old is GG Series??!??
@@callofmetals24 first GG came out in 1998. why does that matter though?
@@flowchartk3n GG Strive had a roadmap bc... The data going back to 1998 says give you what you want sir
Good video from someone who actually plays and understands the game. W upload
Thank you!
Great fucking video my G.
For me personally, I spent 2 months making a comprehensive guide for Kuno. Which turned out to be a massive waste of time since the game died. Hopefully this patch can bring folks back so that I can release lol
Thanks! Yeah I feel you the game went blazed out way too fast, have to hope the patch brings back some balance and the DLC brings casuals back in
I feel most game devs are ignorant to the fact that communication is key with fighting games. I mean it's fine they'll start noticing when their pockets start hurting because we all go to the game that offer a better product. It's just simple competition that's why Guilty Gear Strive and I see Project L also having this success because they communicate while games with their game devs like DBFZ and DNF will go out of busniness because no one is gonna want to buy because what they offer is not as good as Strive and most likely Project L I mean just look at how much Riot is communicating with us even on the progress on Project L not keeping us in the dark that's why I have high expectations for Project L
It's definitely no longer optional, I hope they see some amount of success with spectre and the balance change and get the point that communication matters
It’s insane that people can’t comprehend how this game would have done if it launched at $20…
I think you either have to go F2P or full price, but I agree the pricing was off. Regional pricing was apparently trash
@@flowchartk3n like this was obviously a game designed towards casuals which is fine. I could see plenty of people buying this game just to mess around drunk for a few nights or weeks. That’s the audience this game should have targeted. In no way was this going to replace GG tekken smash or sf. Devs needa see that and just target people that’ll play for a short time and accept it. It’s crazy that they expect to make ground breaking sales and viewers for basic games.
The only i know about dnf duel is that it has "ragan but with a gun and a nice hat this time''
lol I would think berserker is more ragna but I don't play a ton of bb
I feel like you're downplaying a bit on how good Strive is gameplay wise in comparison to Dnf. Strive struck a great spot when it comes to being easy to start and learn, and then having a fair ladder of stuff to learn if you want to keep improving for yourself. DNF in that regard feels lazy, it has somewhat creative liberty but the damage scaling and meter system makes it nearly worthless learning the more extended combos that do 5% more damage than the regular bnb compared to how Strive gives you several ways to use the Roman Cancel and meter in general offensive and defensively with that meter, just to name a clear difference
A matter of preference I guess. Roman cancel is an amazing mechanic that allows a lot of freedom of expression. I think saying that it is "nearly worthless" to learn optimal combos is objectively false but I agree that for a more casual audience it probably feels pointless to do just a bit more damage with something that takes 5x more to learn.
20 years of playing fighting games and Ggstrive is the only fighting game that I can actually play
@@Theyungcity23 LMAO Fack that's not a good look at all..don't say that in public again. I've been playing for 30 years fighting games. You just suck
Inquisitor main rise up
There are dozens of you!
it feels like they didn't even expect it to be successful in the first place. 🙃
It actually really does. It almost seems like people liking the game took them off guard and delayed any planned updates for it. Incredibly bad foresight
Nexon is the one contracting Arcsys (who then contracted 8ing) to make DNF Duel. If it's anything terrible to do with roadmaps and plans you can always blame them.
Yeah if nothing else I think the insane amount of passing the buck is making it worse. It seems like Nexon expects Neople to do it expects Arcsys to do it expects 8ing to do it kinda thing. Someone needs to just hire 1-2 marketing people and then give them the twitter and youtube log ins lol
@@flowchartk3n I think it's more like Arcsys isn't given enough power and budget to do the marketing and balancing. Even if they wanted to do anything they have to first get approved by Nexon.
And from what I can tell Nexon also experienced some major management shift. The guys original decided to make DNF Duel stepped down, so they weren't planning on making any content for DNF Duel at all in the first place.
I was actually really excited to buy this game. Strive was a hit and this looked cool.
I was waiting till I could afford it but the MOMENT i heard about Crusaders infinite it turned me off to the game. News like that has a huge effect on peoples choice to buy the game; niche games with enormous technical ceilings and exploits like MvC arent appealing to large audiences.
Understandable, although FWIW the infinites are patched out. Stuff like that bothers me a bit less because even though it exists its not as though its something I see all the time. Still stupid that those sorts of things make it into the finished product
I think this is ignoring the most important reason why DNF failed, really bad publisher. The publisher had really crazy prices on most regions (it lacked regional prices too) and then after a ton of people complained about it, they reduced it by just a little. This really destroyed the playerbase.
That and the bad balance at launch. The game is just not fun to play, just fun to watch.
This is definitely true but the game still found 12k players on launch day. I was more focusing on the massive drop off of players who already purchased the game
But yeah, no regional pricing was a trash move. Someone posted when it came out you could literally buy strive and KOF for the same price they charged for DNF duel
True, playing the game really sucks but you can see this game gets alot of views. Just the otrher day a TNS tournament got over 10K views but if you o to steam charts you only see 400 player cap a day
Guilty gear strive is so awesome. The only thing that is missing is the fact that you can't get up while being combo'ed mid air.
definitely loved strive since beta. First GG I've really sank time into
Recovery?
@@Nova-tl4yc yeah. As in like older guilty gear games
Personally, I liked the removal of air-teching. In games where you can do it I would often find myself mashing buttons instead of paying attention to what the opponent is doing. I feel like I specifically got better at Strive than BlazBlue because instead of angily punching jab to leave the combo, I would actually spend that time thinking about what I did wrong and the new position I would be in after it was over.
I'm not saying that teching is pointless, I bet it *does* make defense more interesting when you know how it works, but that's just how I feel at my low level.
@@poizonparfait I agree, since Strive is less flashy than other anime fighters (tbf I only played MBTL and BBTAG), you have more time to think what to do in the window you'd spend air teching. Although being able to think and do the air tech at the same time is a hard skill to learn.
What I really like about Strive tho is that its slower place allows for a more strategic gameplan given a bigger timeframe to think about the match, I love it bc of that.
The only reason I didn't get DNF Duel?... I had to chill out on the amount of fighting games I'm playing lmao. I've bought so many and loved them all but I gotta devote myself to a few if I wanna get better lol, but I'll still jump into others just for the hell of it if friends want to play. At the moment I really focus on Strive, P4AU2, and Blazeblue. Once FighterZ gets it's rollback, things are gonna have to change cause that's the game that got me into the FGC lol
legit might go back to fighterz once rollback drops. I stopped playing around gogeta4 and would like to pick it back up again on PC
@@flowchartk3n Same here. As my friend jokingly said "Finally, FighterZ finally has a release date" 😂😂
I'm on pc so couldn't play the beta. It looked fun, so I bought it. Dropped it in a couple of days. Did not find it fun to play. Guilty gear is overall a better (to me) game, regardless of road map.
totally fair
I bought DNF on release, or at least close to it. Played it for couple of hours over a few days, but then couldn't, due to life. By the time I came back there was nobody to play with. Sadge.
True arcade experience though, the game drops and that's all you get. Play it or leave it. But it's not 1996 anymore, though.
Yeah really unfortunate the way they peaced out for 6 months. They are coming back to it, hopefully its enough to do some damage control but just being real they are never going to get the playerbase they had before. Its going to be a constant struggle just to get back to where they started now
I bought the game for 50 dollars. The first 2 weeks were pretty fun, learning the game, learning new tech abut one day I was playing with a friend online and I was just not having fun anymore. We were doing the same combos over and over again and I just had to stop, I jave not played it ever since. Now on the other hand I still play KOFXV and enjoy it every single time. The game is just very fun and every match is completely different to the previous one
Man the regional pricing of this game was laughably bad.
yeah I have heard that from a few different people. Really stupid oversight, my guess would be Nexon didn't want to deal with it since Arcsys apparently did it correctly with strive
It would have helped if ARCSYS wasn't bussy with like 5 games at the same time.
First off guilty gear been a fighting game for a long time as for DNF duel last time I check this yall very fight fighting game yeah good lucky keeping up with a already popular name game since 1998
I get this and I would agree but DNF had 12k players at launch. It wasn't getting people to paly that was the issue it was holding peoples interest
Strive was a lot of people's first fighting game.
FREE ON EPIC GAMES
Not sure if I should get dnf duel or strife, I just want an easy fighting game to get into and learn. Stuff like the older guilty gears and blazblue are too complicated.
both great games tbh
Bro get KOFXV thats the best game right now
@@jorbu1423 but is it easy to learn, I've tried kof before and found em difficult to learn.
@@ILLRICARDO It is alot harder that is true
While Strive may have been a commercial success, from a gameplay standpoint it's a complete failure as well.
Seems pretty subjective
Only actual difference is that GG has a legacy, DNF is unknown to the FGC. Lmao. DNF acted like they had a legacy, and failed to communicate fast enough.
They're used to MMO level communication and update timing, not the FGC's short attention span.
GG is losing players for other reasons though, and it'll be dead in a short time trust and believe
I definitely think communication is more optional on MMOs, they tend to be grindy and more content rich on release
Cause seeing Nexon is enough to avoid the game it sucks to have that reputation,
Even the Gacha players avoid there game,
I still wonder why it took them so long to expand there most profitable IP
Even there Mobile version of dfo is region lock.
Yeah super weird. Especially when having 20 years of lore and characters lends itself to basically any genre. Just contract a dev known in the space and free money
I understand Spectre, but why is Monk one of the most wanted dlc characters?
Monk is very popular in DFO from what I've seen, although I don't think anyone is as popular as spectre
Regional prices.
Did strive have better regional pricing? I know DNF was crazy expensive for certain regions but I'm not sure what it usually ends up being
@@flowchartk3n yeah strive was waaaaaay cheaper on release.
The big problem with this game is the meter system and the long combos. This is a 1vs1 game, combos gotta be shorter and yo need to use all your tools not just the same one over and over again. That is why games like kof98 and Third strike are still fun after 20 years. No one in tje fgc will play DNF 20 or even 10 years from now. But people will still be playing kof98 and Third Strike
I was actually a Dungeon Fighter player for a few years, so I knew the source material and was excited for the fighting game - even though I was never into fighting games. That excitment diminished when I heard Nexon Korea was handling it, that was a huge red flag - it mean they weren't really taking this fighting game seriously, it was just an AD for the main game. As someone who doesn't usually plays fighting games, my main interest was seeing the characters I liked fully realized with more fidelity. Which DNF Duel definitely delivered, as expected of a game made by Arc Sys. However, it was lacking something that we were all looking foraward: fan service. I thought the fan service was too tame for a fighting game, specially an anime one. That seems to be a problem in all modern fighting games, even Strive is very tame compared to what came before as far as I could notice based on new and old character designs. Westerners don't seem to care about it but here in Asia anime tiddies are a big deal and downgrading fanservice isn't a good direction at all.
lol I haven't heard that take as much but let me tell you the mods definitely patch the fan service right into the game
@@flowchartk3n Of course you haven't you are an westerner. You guys are the source of the problem when it comes to fan service, and proof of that is how you suggest I cope with mods. The idea of having fan service because fans went out of their way to patch it into the game sets a bad precedent for devs, who will continue to refuse giving us what we want out of the box.
Just admit you don't care about it which just proves my point.
@@Rivershield I don't think I was really hiding it but sure, I admit I do not care about fan service. I also don't use the mods for that reason.
@@flowchartk3n Wtf happened with you guys? There was a time fanservice was just common sense in the industry, in both the west and asia, and no one associated it with porn addiction. It was just a celebration of masculine impulses, which made sense because games were made by men, for men. They still are for the most part nowadays.
What seems to have changed is that western men aren't men anymore.
It's like western culture became gay suddenly.
@@Rivershield I cannot speak for all western culture but I don't think we're going to agree on this point lol. Absolutely nothing wrong with fan service in fighting games, I like anime tiddies as much as the next guy. Just not a priority for me
Is Spectre releasing in December or some time next year?
My heart says later december. My brain says Jan-Feb
They didn't give a date so we don't actually know yet
@@flowchartk3n I hope it's December, but of course soon as we get our hopes up they will crush it, so yea I say Feb which is ridiculous in my opinion.
As much as I agree about the communication difference between those games, guilty gear still a very bad example of communication tho.
It's not perfect but I still think they do a good job of making a roadmap that goes out pretty far and roughly sticking to it. At least as far as post launch strive.
In terms of dev to fan communication, ArcSys is better than most.
“Tekken 7 is 3.” Comes to mind.
@@AMnotQ yeah, and thats what makes me sad, cuz if you look outside fgc we still way behind in this matter. But sure they've done a great job on the post launch content.
Great Video 👍
thanks man, good to see another OG zerker player
Bro, fgc vets entirely miss the point. Ot ALWAYS comes down to wether or not the game is fun for new and intermediate players, since they are the majority and the most ficle. DNF was thw most oppressive fighting games I've ever played, with long combos and really uncomfortable movement. Additionally, matches were hard to find from the beginning and matchmaking was terrible, often pairing new players against opponents wat out of their league.
Strive had style, Strive had accessibility, it had great matchmaking, high player counts from the jump, but above all, it was fun for everyone.
"accessibility" is going to mean vastly different things to new and intermediate players although I definitely agree that they are the target. DNF has easy inputs and one button supers, strive requires full motion inputs and a whopping 632146H input for any super. I don't think its as easy as just saying one game is accessible and one is not.
Style is entirely opinion, I think both games looks great in different ways. Not really surprising since ArcSys was involved in both in different capacities. I would also say I personally think Strive's combos are harder than DNF but again, just my opinion.
Different people can have different opinions but I definitely think just saying one game looks better or was easier/more fun to play is discounting the surrounding factors a bit too much
Korea is not that expertised in Consumer games unlike Japan and West who have made them for decades.
I really wish they went with a free to play model like DFO. They could have sold tons of cash shop garbage and it would have kept people more interested and made them more money
@@flowchartk3n calisto and gungrave didn't went well too. I think Lies of P would be not so different unless they hire western or Japanese dev by money.I didn't saw korea getting metascore over 85. Just like China.
@@tomvhresvelg9286 interesting. yeah a lot of games are underperforming right now, Calisto really got hit because of PC performance issues as well
@@flowchartk3n Lies of P would be not so different unless Neowiz Poaches Japanese or Western Devs to compensate their lack of experience on consumer games... but seeing Calisto protocol and DNF duel which was made in this way.. well..
About 5+ years in the oven as people kept seeing how shit the beta was for Guilty Gear Strive compared to DNF Duel's which while had issues, played far better do to pre-established servers and rollback they kept working on.
That's... That's it. Nothing else. It just was out longer so more time to improve since the kept with it.
I get this and I would agree but DNF had 12k players at launch. It wasn't getting people to paly that was the issue it was holding peoples interest
@@flowchartk3n
Wait yeah, that's what I mean. And didn't Strive also have around the same amount but the difference was it's just older which was part of my point. People just thought they would fix it and they did. Took longer then it should have to fix but there you go.
If DNF Duel played like that actually game it's based on where it had burst from the start it would be better but that wouldn't change anytime soon.
The cast was like 90% zoners good riddance
Now THIS is a take
Did it failed?
I think DNF has unequivocally failed to communicate updates up to this point in the games lifespan, which has led to the game's playerbase shrinking to less than .1% of the starting playerbase. Guilty Gear strive has managed to retain around 8% of the starting playerbase while being out more than twice as long.
I don't think the game has failed as a game, I'm a huge fan and love playing it. I just think its failed to retain its playerbase and failed to communicate with its audience and keep them interested.
@@flowchartk3n has it failed to make a profit? sales?
@@lostvayne9146 I can't speak to the profit, but the game definitely sold. It's hard to say how much money they've made but its nothing compared to DFO which makes literally billions. The money made from the sale of the game is definitely secondary to Nexon's goal of expanding the DFO IP
Tbh I just thought guilty gear looked much cooler than dnf duel
DNF looked REALLY nice visually from the start. Every trailer they dropped was met with a lor of hype and praise over the visuals.
To me at least it just seemed like another anime fighting game
totally fair and subjective opinion. tbh I thought both looked sick
DNF duel failed because systematically it’s ass. The beta was garbage-in fact the first open beta was so trash I didn’t even want to play the second one. It’s so barebones and boring to play and all of the characters have stupid range and dumbass busted moves/combos…oh and half the cast has guns. Strive looks better, plays better and even though it’s a striped down GG, it’s still better than DNF Duel
to each their own. I actually loved the beta but I'm sure not everyone did
Simply cus dnf duel is booty cheeks bad lol
💁♂️
GGS is a success?? Most fans like the old one better ( Strive is too Unga Bunga) and the online is pretty barren.
I think by any metric strive is a success. There are still thousands of players a year later and the game was a commercial hit. I know some players prefer xrd or accent core but its still by far the most "successful" GG to date
Troll reply, lol!
GGS is failing after the pandering of Bridget's political correctness, ArcSys betrayed the old fanbase and now, they are facing the most biggest toxicity from the modern audience and communities, everyone that talking about the original profile of Bridget are banned, that game is the most sh*t ever that ruined GG and the fanbase.
Wokeness ruin videogames.
yeah idk man retcons happen all the time. You can argue its politically motivated but I think its only a really vocal minority of the GG fanbase that cares what gender Bridget identifies as.
@@flowchartk3n the problem is that we cant talk anymore in these FGC, the majority that talk about the old concept Bridget are getting kicked out and banned, wtf seriously?
This kind of "any little critic or word could be banned" its an dictatorship like twitter was before Musk bought it.
There are no free speech and respect to the old players, and old players are considered toxic because "journalists" saying that, these ignorants ruined everything.
So you understand that they wanted to see if the DFO brand could branch out enter other genres so they have it a test run with the Hottest Fighting game studio. And you guys understand they had to get data back to see if content was worth it? And yet still no explaining to these whiners in the comments? How come I can understand the process clearly? And now we have a new update with a new character. Like WTF
I think people, and myself, are more disappointed that they let 99.9% of the customer base leave without any communication. The game launched with 12,000 players and had about 40 concurrent before the patch went out.
Its okay to say that they needed some time to see if the investment was worth it, but any way you look at it they took too much time. Letting 3 months go by before saying a word, and then another 3 months before following up cost the game all of its players. You can argue that players should not have left, and some did not. But you cannot argue it was the right move given the result.
@@flowchartk3n gamers are wish washy and have the shortest attention span possible these days. Big ups to you for sticking around. I'm 30 years deep in the FGC. Ive seen it all. I mean it's not even the gameplay that drove people away. Ppl are spoiled with giant 40 character rosters. Im just a different breed of animal. Respect and thanks for the time. You earned a sub
Yeah I get what your saying. Personally as someone who has also been around a long time it's not as important to me but the casual fans demand it at this point. Ultimately I just want the game to thrive.
Bouncing around on your comments but hopefully I am not turning people off from the game. I love the game, I just had a hard time recommending people spend money on it when I knew that it was genuinely hard to find matches and I wasn't sure the devs were going to support it. With the recent patch I can 100% say people should play it which is why I'm trying to gift it to a few people and hopefully others will just buy it on sale.
Appreciate the time 👍
@@flowchartk3n 🙃 I wish I would've saw your most recent video and the giveaway we probably wouldn't be having this convo lol and honestly I wasn't saying you In particular are turning ppl away. I read comments and I like to gauge the room by seeing who's I'm it saying what. My apologies for the vigor
They failed cause they strayed from the original game too much.
I didn't play DFO but from what I've seen they very faithfully adapted the existing moves into a fighting game? Im not sure what you mean by this
@@flowchartk3n a bunch of missing classes, only like half the move set, these characters are mere fractions of the originals.
Pvp in dfo was fun because all of the different options and what not.
No quick rebound which was vital for pvp.
Put it this way, whatever combos you think are big in this game, they are nothing compared to the actual true combos you can do in dfo.
@@shadowsintox9 interesting, ill have to check it out. I think it would be tough to add more moves to the game but compared to DFO I guess its quite small. Definitely missing a lot of classes
@@flowchartk3n
th-cam.com/video/hbAQocnXiog/w-d-xo.html
Theres some world championship footage. One of the tournaments few years ago.
Anyway, I forgot to mention too, theres also different weapons. So each class has like 5 weapons, and like 2 or 3, usually just 1 tho, is specifically designed for a certain subclass.
In dnf duel, those are sub classes.
Striker, grappler, ghost blade, ect.
That's another huge thing tho.
The grapplers main weapon is supposed to be the tonfa.
But its important cause each weapon changes up hitstun, range, ect.
Either way. I played dnf duel and what killed it for me was that the characters were only a bit of what they could actually do, and so much was missing.
Like my favorite class.