Every Change Made in Sonic Origins
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 พ.ค. 2024
- 1990's platforming has never looked so crisp!
Chapters:
0:00:00 Intro
0:01:03 Sonic 1
0:10:25 Sonic CD
0:20:49 Sonic 2
0:28:20 Sonic 3
0:50:16 Sonic Origins
1:01:38 Sonic Origins Plus
===External links / Credits===
=Final Fever Animation:
• Unused Sonic Cd's Fina...
=Sonic 2 Prototype:
info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the_...)
=Tails' Sonic 2 Super Ending:
• Finally... Tails has a...
=Sonic 3 Prototype:
hiddenpalace.org/Sonic_the_He...)
=Unused Robotnik Sprite:
tcrf.net/File:Sonic3-eggmanlo...
=Knuckles CD:
• Knuckles The Echidna i...
=Amy in Sonic 1:
www.romhacking.net/hacks/1018/
=Metal in Sonic 3:
www.romhacking.net/hacks/1946/
=Tails Doll Sprite:
www.spriters-resource.com/cus...
=Triple Trouble 16-Bit:
gamejolt.com/games/sonictripl...
=Sonic 3D Director's Cut:
info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_3D:...
=Shout out to Sonic 3 save editor for saving me time on parts of this video:
jcfields.gitlab.io/sonic3-sav...
--
[I had to redact a whole section of my description because i guess i rambled on too hard. I guess that's just TH-cam's way of saving you the headache. In short, sorry for the clicks in the voice-over. I genuinely had no control over it. I explained why before, but the character limit had other plans. Thanks anyway for tuning in.]
P.S. If you're wondering why i didn't rag on this game more, well i just honestly didn't hit much trouble while playing it. There were a few glitches which i put in the video, but mostly i had smooth sailing. My gripes weren't that i paid money for this, or that it included some tracks from Generations instead of fully original remixes. And i truly don't think the Sonic 3 replacement tracks are bad. Sure it's a shock to not hear the ones we've grown up with. And yes, you can play the prototype tracks side by side in isolation with the new ones and point out how muffled or un-exciting they sound. But when they're actually put in practice, playing in the level with all the sound effects included, i think they are perfectly fine. I just think the positives outweigh the negatives. But if there's an opportunity to complain, Sonic fans have to take it, right? So in that spirit, WHERE THE HECK IS MY SONIC TAILS DUO MODE IN SONIC 1 WITH SUPER SONIC. Was that good enough? I really don't get why that's only in cheats. But oh well. Frontiers is out next week so let's look forward to that.
PSP. Remember how i said my brain is still in May? well there's alot of projects i wanted to do this year that i haven't really gotten to. Like the KH video i filmed in early spring. Or the last few FFVIIR vids i need to get out before Part 2. But i think the best choice for me is to start on my BOTW video next. I'm probably the only person on this planet that was relieved to hear that BOTW2 was being delayed. That just gave me more time to do this video that i've wanted to do since early on when i played it in 2017. I've got some opinions on it, that tie into part 2. So let me get that out before the game releases, or nintendo drops some big trailer to make my points irrelevant. And hey, since people are still drooling over the first game 5 years later, maybe i'll actually pick up some views. Anyway thanks for listening to my mad ramblings once again. See you in 4 months or something ridiculous like that.
PPSSPP. If you want to see me defending the hedgehog games more, watch my unlisted video of Sonic Origins here. It was a pre-release video that was a bit of fun to make. It never was meant to stay up for long, but now that this official video is finally up, it can rest in the catacombs of TH-cam's unlisted section. I got a few things wrong, which is okay. Classic mode is frustratingly not classic at all. And uhh, maybe there's something else. I haven't watched it since i uploaded it. But if by some miniscule chance Wulff dude sees this, i guess you were right about classic mode. Though for a reason that none of us expected, and honestly shouldn't have even played out like it did. Well, i stand by (probably) all my other points in that video so watch it here if you want:
• A Rant In Favor of Son...
Thanks again you scallywag. - เกม
Thank you everyone for the 50K views! (or close enough anyway.)
I want to address a few points here since i'm seeing some repeat comments. And to make some updates to comments i've already replied to, after revisiting Origins for further testing.
[1]. Mobile Versions. Yes, 1, 2, and CD are ports of the mobile versions. I bring that up in the intro at 0:12 and the video is written assuming the viewer understands this. Fans have been wanting those versions on consoles for years and Origins is the answer to that. Though there are still some smaller changes made on top of those versions. Those mobile versions in this video are often referred to by year (2011 for CD, 2013 for Sonic 1 and 2). Those remakes were seen to be the best versions by many fans, and it wouldn't make much sense to remake them again from scratch.
[2]. Lore Changes. I understand some of my requests would contradict the lore. (Super Sonic in Sonic 1, Sonic and Tails in Sonic 1, Super Tails in Sonic 2, Knuckles in Sonic CD). The appeal of the mobile remasters, and in turn this collection, is to make some quality of life improvements to these classic games some of us have been playing for decades. If there wasn't meant to be changes we'd be getting yet another Genesis collection, untouched in it's original form. The baffling thing about this collection though is that it comes with 2 important modes for each game. Anniversary Mode, which should be the safe place to make any and all changes to the game, regardless of conflicts with lore. And Classic Mode, which should be the original games in their purest forms, preserving all original gameplay and story continuity. The problem here is that neither mode serves it's purpose effectively. Anniversary is held back in interest of lore details, and Classic is not true to the original releases. The bigger problem is some of the changes made already conflict with the lore. (Tails in Sonic 1 and CD, Knuckles in Sonic 1 and 2, Super Tails without the Super Emeralds in Sonic 3). The player can run through South Island as Knuckles and understand that's not how the story is meant to go, so why can't that be applied to the other requested changes? Sometimes it's just more fun or more convenient to play through the game in a different way that wasn't intended in the 90's. And if they're going to do quality of life improvements, i don't see why they pick and choose which elements are worth preserving when there's already a lack of consistency in the changes they wish to make.
[3]. Drop Dash. Each game has the dropdash added in, but it works in two different ways. (Why that is, i'll get to). Sonic CD and 3 have the move the way you'll remember it in Mania, while Sonic 1 and 2 has a roll lock. Here's the thing about my statement in the video. When i downloaded the collection right when it came out, i naturally started with Sonic 1. I didn't even notice the roll lock at first since typically you'll keep to one direction while doing it anyway. When i did realize, i figured it must have something to do with the more dated feeling of the first game, I didn't analyze it much further than that. My quote from the video is this: "...and is implemented nicely into Sonic 1, without feeling out of place." The 'out of place' comment is important because that's in reference to the game Sonic 1, and not about that version of the dropdash feeling out of place in the collection over all. I hadn't even played much of CD or 3 in this collection at the time, so to reiterate it's strictly about how it feels in sonic 1. So why make that distinction? Sonic 1 (and the other games of course) weren't designed with the drop dash in mind. That's down to the level design. In the clip that's shown while covering this, you'll see Sonic start the move from a zero momentum state, reinforced by the invisible wall at the level's start. He'll gracefully jump over the spring, clear the bed of spikes, land on a moving platform, and continue on to dropdash again to what will lead to a breakable wall (not shown before the cut.) Pretty good for a game that didn't even have the spindash at release. So my point is basically how it doesn't feel out of place within the level design of these games. I don't favor the roll lock, but There is an explanation for this. It's not a lock that has been added into the game. It's a consequence of each games physics. It should be noted that this same roll lock is present in the original sonic 1 (try changing directions while rolling down a hill) and also in Sonic 2 when doing a spindash. Sonic 3? Yeah, your spindash is also roll locked but there's a catch. Sonic 3 introduces the Instashield which breaks this direction lock if used mid-air. (try it first without the instashield, then again with it.) So what about Sonic CD? Remember, the CD spindash works differently than the one in Sonic 2. So you'll notice that in the original game it lets you turn around while in the air. So finally there's Mania, the introduction of the dropdash. This game came out over 2 decades later than the other games so it's expected things will be alot smoother. One change they decided to make was a mid-air turn around. You can do this at any point, whether it's from standing, spindash, momentum roll, or dropdah. So in conclusion, The roll lock was not introduced, but is a consequence of each games physics. Sure these games are remade, so a new physics engine could be introduced, but 3 out of 4 of these were remade before Mania even came out. Besides, when it comes to Sonic games the physics are one thing you do not want to mess around with. (I'm sure you can think of a few examples.) But there is hope for those of you who want to dropdash in the Mania style. In the level select for S1 and S2 you can turn on the shields from Sonic 3. This includes the Instashield move, letting you break that pesky roll lock. Now the thing that sucks about this is it won't let you save your progress, but that's the same pain i feel from not being able to save while using Super Sonic or &Tails in Sonic 1. If you're wondering why they didn't introduce a roll-lock-break inherent to the S1 and S2 dropdash to avoid this issue, well you'll just have to take that up with Sega.
[4]. Sonic 3 Music. The unfortunate thing is we'll probably never get any clear answers to the whole Sonic 3 music situation. It's been ongoing since 2010 i think. The bottom line is the tracks we love so much couldn't be used. Legal issues are much more nuanced than many people tend to think. (Trust me, i'm not a lawyer). If Sega doesn't hold the rights then it's not happening. We have no way to know how much or how little they fought for the licensing though. It's sad, but the music had to go. So the prototype tracks are the obvious replacements. I want to make a clarification from the video. (39:39 "They were the prototype tracks discovered later on. And they were even used in the PC's Sonic & Knuckles Collection.") That's in reference to the melodies, not the specific version of these songs. There's 3 iterations that i know about. The S&K Collection versions that took the world by surprise in 1997, The 1993 Prototype versions discovered much later in 2019, and the Jun Senoue adaptations for Origins in 2022 (though some have speculated that these are unaltered from an even earlier prototype). I'm not here to tell you which ones to like better, but i want to make a couple speculations. Excuse the pessimism, but I feel like this was a lose/lose/lose situation. I believe there would be complaints no matter what version we got, because when you take away the amazing tracks we know from the 1994 game, nothing is going to live up to it. Either because of our personal biases, or because the original tracks were just simply that much better. {Jun Senoue makes remixes, they're not as good as the original prototype songs. Sega uses the unaltered songs, that's lazy because those tracks were never finished. Have someone else remix the tracks, still it's not the originals so it's not good.} The only way i believe fans would be satisfied with this change is if someone like Tee Lopes remixed them. He's a household name. Now i don't want this to come off as doubting his abilities, i'm certain he would do just fine. But he has his own style that works wonderfully in Mania, but may clash with the already established audio in Sonic 3. Again, i personally believe he could pull it off, but i also understand that he may not be the go-to choice for that reason. Also, unless there's an interview out there that says otherwise, We don't know if Sega and Tee Lopes were in discussion about this or not. It's entirely possible he was just busy and couldn't accept. As for the versions we did get, i don't exactly hate them. That just comes down to personal preference and we don't have to all feel the same. But i do want to bring up Ice Cap for a second. You can listen to the old and new proto songs side by side and note that the old is much more exciting, therefore it's better. But despite even commenting on the change in excitement in my video, (that was referring to the Buxer track, but the sentiment still applies) Ice cap should evoke much more than pure excitement. Sure, the snowboarding segment is thrilling, but you're quickly plunged into a gloomy frozen cave looking for a way out. To me the newer version feels a bit lonelier and a bit more cold. More fitting when used in practice within the actual game, rather than listened to one after the other, removed from the context of the level. Though the Hard Times song seems to hit a perfect balance of excitement and determination for escaping the cold. I stand by the Launch Base change, Though i understand if you don't feel the same.
{Continued in the comments.}
[5]. Complaints. It's ironic, but i feel like i'm one of the few people who will have some positive things to say defending Origins. But that doesn't prevent me from being labeled a complainer who can't graciously accept what Sega's given us. It seems to be the trend on the internet that opinions are presented in black or white. (X-number of things about this are bad, therefore the whole game is bad. Or the reverse, This game is great so there's not a valid criticism to be had about it.) I like to explore the positives and negatives at the same time within the context of my own preference. That puts me in the perfect position to get criticism from both sides. ('Sonic Origins sucks, so this video is just plain wrong', or 'I love Sonic, so you're just Whining about things that don't matter.'). It's all fine i guess. It's to be expected. I've been on the internet a long time, but man does it seems things are gradually becoming more and more one-sided. I try to be fair in my criticisms or praises, but i'm not going to separate myself from the project. (If i was reviewing for a company, then fine. But my name is attached to the channel. It's only going to be personal.) I cover the game because i like it. That goes for every game on my channel. It would be insane to spend this much time in the game, and even more time editing it if i didn't have an appreciation for the game in question. As for me complaining in the video? Sure, it's there. but not everything is as serious as it seems. Sometimes points are exaggerated to emphasize the point and to give reason as to why it should have been done otherwise. I've played these games for countless hours throughout my life so i have no trouble inputting the secret codes i've memorized years ago. That doesn't mean i don't identify it as an issue though.
[6]. Mistakes. Please understand that an enormous amount of work goes into these videos, from the script all the way down to each few-second-long clip shown to illustrate each talking point. Nobody has perfect encyclopedic knowledge of every minute detail across every one of the Sonic games, and many things are confirmed solely in interviews or statements of another kind. I do my best to provide accurate details, while also trying not to leave out anything. And every new point added is another opportunity to get something even slightly wrong. I mean i'm speaking for an hour straight here. Some mistakes are bound to happen, but again i'm trying my best here.
[7]. Purpose. This video is made with love of the Sonic series. I figured it would be fun to compare the newest versions to their original releases. It doesn't have to be some statement on the quality of Origins, I know the collection is controversial for some. I'm not interested in swaying anyone's opinion on it. But i do like to share my own opinions, that's kind of the reason for this channel. If you gain even a little appreciation towards the game from my video, then that's pretty cool that i could have some effect. If not, that's totally cool too. The world would be boring if we all felt the same way.
[8]. Outside Factors. Issues regarding price, denuvo, polish, and takedowns are problems i sympathize with, but i'm not interested in discussing those much further since they're beyond the purpose of my video. I simply want to focus on the content within the game, or things that could be added. (Though if you want to hear me drone on about some of those points, click the secret video in the description.)
[9]. Appreciation. If you're still reading this far, then wow you're a trooper. It's humbling to see that others could be interested in the things i have to say. Even if it is just discussions on some video games. Even just the click to get here is appreciated, at least the title or thumbnail have done their job. I've been building this channel for a while and this the first video to really get some attention. (I mean, 45K may not scream 'blowing up' to you, but it's a whole lot nicer than 19 views on a video.) And my subscriber count has increased quite a bit in the last few weeks. So thank you! it makes all the work that much more worth it. That being said, if you're interested in my style of video or want to hear more (seemingly) unconventional takes, then you're welcome to subscribe. I'll be here for a while either way.
Sorry for the whole essay of an explanation, i've just had Sonic Origins on the brain ever since this video started being recommended. I'd like to add one more key detail regarding the story. I discussed above my distinction between Anniversary and Classic modes. But Origins has one more mode that's a happy in-between. Story Mode keeps with the lore while also offering some anniversary additions. (Widescreen, coins, no lives, etc.) So any of my lore-breaking suggestions would not be included in this mode. (7th emerald and Super Sonic would be introduced in Sonic 2, in the same way tails joins up already within Story mode.)
they did try to get in contact with Jaleel for generations, but couldn't, that's why sonic just cant talk now.
@@israelimapping I would love to hear Urkel Sonic in one of the games.
@Bobby Bionic you can get super sonic In sonic one by going the level select. It's the same code. Up down left right. The find the option that says "emeralds" or something like that. Then, put it to 7 and if you collect all of them you will become super sonic
Getting rid of the “im outta here” is a crime in every continent including Antarctica
I was tryna show my gf that yesterday, instead I looked like an asshole
@@sonicriders.7stop the 🧢
I personally love 3&K's miniboss theme. I never really liked how goofy it sounded, when Eggman is always portrayed as this world-ending threat. It sounds dramatic, I like it!
It is a really good theme! The only problem for me is i had Sonic 3 long before i got Sonic & Knuckles, so it took me by surprise to see that the miniboss and Knuckles themes were different.
That's because the mini boss is only training for what Ivo has in store for Sonic. The mini bosses are never meant to be taken seriously like the actual bosses.
One of the best. Even with its early pip-Hip Hop esk genre. I was gonna remake it myself lol
@@BobbyBionic MJ basically had a hand in knuckles theme, the mini boss, ice cap, carnival night, and launch base which is why they took it all out, it drops the quality of the game quite a bit cause those levels were made by those songs
Edit just saw you got to it
@@BobbyBionic I also had Sonic 3 long before S&K, but I always preffered S&K miniboss music and hated that it only appeared in S3 via glitch in Hydrocity zone
Fun fact: when sonic says he’s outta here he doesn’t kill himself. He just leaves little planet
but how! It’s a planet! He can’t jump off?
He literally did in the ending
Little plant doesn’t really have a lot of gravity
Don`t care. It`s more funny that way
I think the idea of big arms knocking the super out of super sonic makes things more interesting, and it definitely worked for a final boss
Theory time: It uses some kind of artificial version of Knuckles's strength.
You gotta remember this is the power of all 7 chaos emeralds vs a machine with none of them and before the super emeralds and master emerald were in the equation too. If Eggman can just make a weapon to stop Super Sonic that's so small and convenient, that doesn't fare well for the rest of the games moving on
@@Espartanica but then again, Knuckles needed to just use cheap shot to knock Sonic out of Super form and a rock to knock him even from HYPER Form, making Machine with such power shouldn't be much of a problem.
@@Espartanica good point
@@JezElectro13 Knuckles has been raised and trained to be the guardian of the Master Emerald, and the power of the chaos emeralds is his home turf. He was able to beat Super Mecha Sonic, powered up by the master emerald, without needing his own super or hyper form to do so. It's not the same as Robotnik managing to do it, especially with Sonic only having just started getting familiar with his Super form. Robotnik had just as much if not less knowledge and experience with the emeralds as Sonic at that point in time, and no other machine of his, including later ones in the same game, had the same capability to disable Super Sonic
Actually, it’s not because the 7 emerald count and Tails as a partner is a cheat, the level select acts default to no save mode. This goes for every classic Sonic game with a level select I think.
Sonic 1 and 2 didn't have saves anyway, but yeah it was like that in 3&K. Having level select and sound test codes that give you all emeralds is definitely too broken to count as a legit run.
Quick note, I mention the Hidden Palace Skip and the Debug Mode Coin Trick in this video. Both of these have been patched out of the game at some point before i finished this video.
Nice video bro
the change in the themes for the stages in Sonic 3 may have something to do with MJ since he did work on many of those song. They may not have had permission to use those anymore
@@cielo987 it is
btw 45:53 is just nteo
1:01:50 I've came from the future. Indeed, Sonic Origins received a "plus" dlc. I want to see you reviewing it like this one too
Some notes:
-the ending cutscene for Sonic 1 shows the six emeralds flying away and being joined by the seventh, which might be why Super Sonic is locked behind the stage select screen
-the "I'm outta here" thing does happen if you play in classic mode, although without the voice clip
-I believe you can disable the super music from the stage select using the same sound test code as Mania. In fact, every code from Mania works!
-Sonic 1 and 2 have roll lock on, which means you can't control yourself in midair after jumping out of a roll or drop dash. CD, 3, and Mania don't have this- a patch removed the roll lock from 1 and 2!
-Fighting Mecha Sonic as Sonic or Tails shows special animations where Knuckles normally glides out of Eggman's claw
Apparently Sega sent out a survey to some people a few months ago that included questions about whether people would be interested in Origins getting dlc in the form of new games and playable characters. If they do came back to update this game, I would love for them to add more frames to Super Sonic's older design, allow all the character options from 2 in all games, put super Tails in every game, allow us to individually pick between both versions of each song in 3 (or have the originals in Angel Island to Launch Base and the s&k ones from Mushroom Hill to Death Egg), and to fix the messed up instrument volume for some songs (Flying Battery act 2 for example)
Edit: welp, almost none of that happened
Woah, good catch on the silent "I'm outta here!" in classic mode! I didn't even think to check for that.
Sonic Orgins Plus
Wait wait wait, I can use max control on s3 is what ur saying
@@sheepishbaton0399 yep! Code is 01 09 09 03 00 09 02 03
What a great video showcasing all of Sonic Origins' changes! It's also really refreshing to hear someone who doesn't despise Sonic Origins with the fury of a thousand suns. I know this'll make it much easier for fans to implement Origins' new S3&K features into Sonic 3 A.I.R., as that game has the most changes.
cheers to that
I love AIR, I need AIR
@@theoverseer1775 ok that was actually funny finally a non cringy sonic joke.
@@scanchannel3259 no, you don't GET IT, I NEED A I R PLEASE SOMEONE HELP
@@theoverseer1775 call tails.
Super Sonic isn’t in Sonic 1 to keep continuity with the cutscenes and lore. The 7th emerald was canonically buried in West Side Island where Sonic 2 takes place, so it makes sense for it be locked behind a cheat for Sonic 1. I don’t get why you can’t play as Sonic & Tails in Sonic 1 though, since you can do that in the 2013 remake.
Ok but why csn we play as Knuckles if he always lived on Angel Island?
Well at least you can enable Super Sonic and Sonic&Tails mode in the stage select menu. It's not elegant, but the feature is still there, and the cheat to enter the menu is easy compared to doing it in 2 and 3. Hell., they even added a special title card for playing Sonic and Tails!
While it's a little annoying that it's not a default character select option, I feel that the video makes it seem worse than it actually is.
You can in Sonic origins in the debug menu if you set player to 00
@@playathesaints9599You can play as him in the mobile port too
@@playathesaints9599That’s an option, super sonic and the 7 emeralds most likely would’ve been mandatory
The Big Arm being able to damage Super Sonic was a bug specific to Sonic 3, and it was fixed in S3K. The proof lies in many S3K hacks, like Sonic 3 Complete, which add the boss back, but don't alter any of it's abilities, and the resulting behavior is equal to the one in Origins - a spring bounce off the slam.
When that Super Tails Ending came up I recognized it but didn't immediately remember where from 🤣 thanks for using it! And great video, as a Sonic fan I didn't notice a lot of this!
it's good to have you here! Glad you enjoyed the video. I really like your animations, so that Tails one was the first thing that came to mind when doing that section of the video. Thanks for giving Tails a proper ending!
I love how when discussing Mirror Mode you reversed the background Music. Such a subtle but well appreciated touch, I wish more creators hid easter eggs in their videos
Dang this really opened my eyes how much work has been done in Origins overall. definitely going to give this a go despite owning the originals & prior re releases. Really informative & detailed content.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but most of these chances are from the mobile ports of these games.
@@pixell3345 except S3&K
@@pixell3345 burst how? That's 60% of the entire reason fans were clamoring for this collection because official the mobile were the best versions of all time
@@pixell3345 "Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's everything you want and, while not perfect, is fantastic and made with love and passion"
@@soulsparx Sorry to burst your bubble, but the mobile versions were free and this costs 40 bucks
The zone you referred to as "proto palace" was just called that in the mobile port, if i remember correctly in the garbled remains of it in release Sonic 2 it's title card even sais "Hidden Palace", and the mobile version has its own rework of it so renaming the easter egg prototype version was necessary(and the zone rework inside Origins is straight up copypaste from mobile version)
Yes, it's always been Hidden Palace. But It's not that it's been copy/pasted into Origins, but Origins contains the mobile version. The only difference here is that the prototype version that is accessible on mobile has been removed for the collection.
The vocals to “You Can Do Anything” are still in the 2011 release. You have to start a new run as Sonic to listen to it.
If you try to replay the cutscene from the extras menu, that’s where you get the instrumental. Still disappointing, but the vocals are still there.
ERGHHH if I use Japanese soundtrack I get the best music but I don't get sonic move RAGGHHH
spindash in sonic 1 has been a thing since sonic jam, i honestly do not even register it as a change from the original anymore lol
Forgot to mention that, in the 2011 version of CD, they edited the OST so that it would have a nice and smooth transition back to the beginning. In the Origins version, the remove these and the music just loops back to the start.
That wasn't even an edit, that is just what it was always meant to do and technical limitations prevented the implementation. In an ideal world, they would have actually used the Classic/Anniversary-mode split and just implemented both versions of each OST.
I love and miss the loopback tracks from CD. They should have been in Origins!
9:39 Nice detail! Knux' jump is slighty lower than Sonic and most probably he cannot make the jump to the shield monitor. That's why he's gliding instead.
5:15 that editing was smooth as fuck
As for Sonic 3's soundtrack, I feel like the S&K version was intended to be the Mini-Boss theme the whole time as heard in a prototype of the game leaked in 2019. Which just so happens to have the "new" S&K Collection music in the build as well. My personal theory of why the Sonic 3 Mini Boss theme even exists was that it was meant to be used for the Knuckles Fight in Hidden Palace which is why you could hear a bit of the Knuckles Theme in the music itself. Plus it fits well so much it's an option to try out in most fan remakes of Sonic 3.
I actually perfer how the leaked prototype handled the Carnival Night music. Origin's version can sit on the barrel for eternity. I guess MJ's take on Carnival Night is why he never got credited in the game. The ONLY time the retail song ever truely felt at home was when the lights go out in Act 2.
I'm going with the Majority on the Ice Cap level. Buxer did it better.
I personally have a hybrid mix for Launch Base which has the instruments of the 1994 release and the theme from the prototype.
I have Sonic 3's ending after Death Egg/Doomsday set as the Sonic 3 end credits instead of the redundant Sky Santuary theme that we literally just heard 2 or 3 levels ago.
The Competition menu I'm indifferent to. I actually like both themes.
Knuckles' theme from S&K is better than both the prototype and Sonic 3 retail.
I disagree. IceCap prototype theme is much better in my opinion.
22:27 Another thing I noticed with this footage: Knuckles had Sonic's arms in the original, which was fixed to be the correct color in Origins. I see even the Origins team was aware of how picky some are with the cast's arm colors...
Pretty sure Tails’ arms are skin colored in the original as well. This was fixed in Origins.
Quick note for you, Sonic one in classic mode uses the same up down left right code so you can turn on the speed caps and air caps and turn off The spindash in sonic CD you can also turn on The CD spin dash
Yeah, but that’s because the classic mode is just a 4:3, coinless, and drop dash-less version of anniversary mode.
This is so well made!! Keep up the great work dude
The problem with your idea for Sonic 1 is that it could cause several misconceptions, as while at first glance Sonic 1 seems to be sparse in the story and character department, in reality it had a lot of world building, story and character put into it. Its just that most of these details were locked behind the Japanese manuals. (though some of the details like the 6 emeralds flying to Westside Island to join the 7th or Amy's tarot card reading hobby did make it into the new cutscenes)
Something that could fix that issue while persevering the integrity of the story would've been to only have Sonic and the 6 chaos emeralds available at the start but once you beat the game it unlocks the other options. (though the 7th emerald would probably need to require beating the game with the 6 emeralds first) Though from the sound of it you don't like unlocking characters.
While Super Sonic should never be in CD due to the gems being the Time Stones, I do like your free time travel idea.
Tails not going super in 2 is also a plot related feature and it is a mistake, not a fix, they gave Tails a new super form in 3&K, while making his old super form a hyper form. The mini arc about his growth is now lost.
I like your idea for unlocking the features, and i think it would be a good compromise. And for the record i don't mind character unlocks, in fact i really like how Sonic Adventure handles it where you have to meet the other characters before playing as them, though i know that same method couldn't apply here. I didn't mind the unlocks in S2 and CD mobile, though it is pretty liberating playing as anyone from the start since many of us have played these games countless times already.
Personally i think the best solution would've been for them to make a better distinction between Anniversary and Classic modes (as mentioned in my pinned comment.) That way we could have all the changes that may be more fun to use, and we can keep the lore intact at the same time.
Though the point about Super Tails introduces an issue. Someone added it in intentionally and no one shot the idea down. Even the Sonic Speed Strats video is happy to mention Super Tails as being separate from Hyper Tails. If i'm not mistaken, the only source for the inexperienced Tails explanation is from an interview and not mentioned in any official sources like the manuals. It's possible they just saw the super ability as being a sonic exclusive form until 3&Knuckles, or maybe they had trouble implementing it into 3 before &Knuckles came out. There's even remnants of super/hyper tails in a sonic 3 prototype, so they at least considered it at the time. But with it being in origins, they either never cared about that aspect of lore too much and just gave an explanation to appease some curious fans, or they no longer hold the same thoughts about certain elements of the story. Or at the very least it's a non-canon addition, which only opens the door to there being other changes not reliant on the lore, which they already seem to pick and choose at will.
@@BobbyBionic
I checked the Speed Strats video and you are indeed correct. I guess in that case like you said in your video Super Tails should be in Sonic 2, since they weren't going to keep up the reasoning later in the collection and again like you said both could be non canon anyway. Though I still think this robs Tails of something unique characterization wise.
@BobbyBionic
They didn’t had any problem back then to make any super form for Tails.
When they were developing Sonic 3, Tails was supposed to have both Super form and Hyper form.
When Sonic and Knuckles collection came on PC back in 1997, people found on Sonic’s 3 game files the unused “Hyper Tails” card and many other cut content.
After the reveal of Sonic 3 prototype two years ago, some people from the developing team were asked some stuff from the fans and they said that everything starts from Sonic 2.
In Sonic 2 they wanted to give exclusively to Sonic the Super form as he was the main protagonist of the game so that’s why in Sonic 2, if you finish the game with Tails and you have collected all the 7 emeralds, you don’t get any Super form. Just the good ending.
When Sonic 3 was developing they wanted to change that and give Tails his Super form and also his Hyper form, but later they decided to cut it because Sonic’s 3 story was right after Sonic’s 2 story and that would be very confusing to the players who will select to play with Tails and see that he has a Super form and in the previous game he hadn’t.
So they cut it for that reason and then, to give a reward to the players who collected all 14 emeralds with Tails, they added his Super form but only after collecting all the Super emeralds, back in the days.
Anyway that’s easy to think about because Tails’ Super form in the original Sonic 3&K, was too powerful just for a Super form.
We know that both Sonic and Knuckles had their Super forms which make them invisible, running faster and make Sonic jumping higher. Then they had their Hyper forms which make them more powerful. Make them even stronger, such as breathing under water, being faster, gives Sonic the lightning attack and Knuckles the wall earthquake.
So after all these facts, we can see that originally Tails was planning to have a normal Super form like the other two characters and when he was collecting the Super Emeralds would become Hyper, with the powerful Flickies around him as we know and as they used to call them “Flicky army of death”
The comments are soooooo long
I swear this isn't a flex from 1994, but I figured out the Carnival Night barrel pretty quickly and without help. It wasn't until the internet era that I became aware it was an issue for some people.
I was convinced you had to jump in rhythm, and i just couldn't get it down. But years later seeing i wasn't the only one stuck there was a bit of a relief!
It was definitely an issue back then. If you called SEGA’s old 900 number tip line, that was one of the tip options you could choose. (I got in trouble as a kid because I had no idea it cost money to call a 900 number 😅)
@@GimmeTOKYO I know it was, but I guess I was a unicorn.
Congratulations for the incredible work! Something I really liked about this video is that you used examples from both sonic cd osts
It's weird that they didn't give you the option of JUST playing Sonic 3 or S&K through on their own. I know they were intended to be one game originally but if that's the case, why change the emerald collecting mechanic when you start Mushroom Hill? It makes it feel like a new game and really annoying when my 7th Emerald was the first hyper emerald.
I feel like the hyper emerald rings only replace the super emerald rings if you get the first super emerald ring in mushroom hill. You can skip the first super emerald ring to continue collecting the standard Chaos emeralds in the S&K stages, or at least that was how it worked in the original.
@@GarryDumblowskican confirm. This is actually how I play the game, I prefer to collect all 7 chaos emeralds and then save the super emeralds for once the game is complete. It makes it feel like post-game content even if that sounds silly.
@@vap1777 I don't think it sounds silly at all, don't worry. I'm actually the opposite, I prefer to do everything I can (within reason) before fighting the final boss, even if it's supposed to be postgame content (like the Champion's Ballad in LoZ BotW or Godhome in Hollow Knight, for example). I don't know why it's just how I prefer to play games.
Scrap brain three is meant to show the environments are effected by eggman im pretty sure?
We all don’t like the new replacement themes as well because we know that sega had access to better versions of those themes but decided to use other versions instead from the sonic 3 and knuckles collection when they could’ve used the prototype remixes
The old ice cap zone sound track hit different ngl
This was a fantastic video with alot of indepth info.
I would like to see all the sprites remade with mania sprites, which is what I had originally thought they were going to do.
I feel more Amy integration would help add as well, or including the teased Spinball and 3D Blast.
there's actually one other change to Sonic CD I didn't see mentioned. The Japanese ending FMV had sound effects. These are completely gone in Origins.
Also Amy blinks and her skirt moves. That's also in the US and EU version of the original Sega CD version. I also prefer the music timing so Sonic's face appears in fireworks right at those long notes in Cosmic Eternity.
I'm so glad i found a video not just calling the game garbage and actually showing what it did right, thank you!
I played through Sonic 1 on origins recently and the biggest issue was how much of a hassle replaying levels is. Once you beat the game, you basically get softlocked in Final Zone, meaning the only way of getting a good ending is by starting over on a new save or using cheats, which won’t save anyway. Every game should’ve had a Sonic 3 saving system imo
Also I’m pretty sure the Sonic & Tails title screen on STH1 is just leftovers from the mobile remaster, since I’m pretty sure they could be picked without issue in that version.
Fun fact about the Mirage Saloon looking one: Before being an unused zone in CD it was an unused zone in 2 called Sand Shower Zone or Dust Hill Zone
It was sand shower
Sonic in CD still can jump off the stage in Origins, but it only happens in Classic Mode and the voice clip isn't there.
I'm not sure if anyone will see, or even care about this comment but a few things in the Sega Genesis classics game version that were big improvements do not show up here.
1. The ability to go back in time if needed.
Missed the giant ring at the end? No problem! Just go back in time using L2 on a controller!
2. The ability to EASILY install mods
Want to make it so you can have the optimum experience? Just install a mod! Your game has basically infinite playthroughs
3. The ability to play with 2 players over the internet
No friends? No problem! Get someone over the internet to help you out!
4. The ability to save at any point you wanted while playing.
In the middle of the stage but want to stop for now? Just save! you literally only have to press and hold one button!
These are some of the things missing from sonic origins that I would have liked to see.
Knuckles & tails together in sonic 2 is slightly overpowered as you can reach any wall to climb, even walls that you can't reach without tails
That secret special stage with robotnik’s face on the horizon is also in the original release
The fact that this man took the time in making this video I truly appreciate him!! ❤️❤️
The reason they most likely changed the original Ice Cap Zone BGM was for legal reasons. Thanks to the Internet, we now know that the original Ice Cap Zone BGM was ripped off. It’s the song “Hard Times” by the Jetzons.
Miracle Sonic was planned as a reward for collecting the Time Stones. I think it was going to be in the 2011/13 remake but it was cancelled. Artwork usually depicts him as pink,white or rainbow. I believe his power woukd be able to change the tine line with a flash and instantly can go to a timeline. Almost like that time or universe sonic
EDIT:
Hidden palace was also apart of the mobile release so thats cool
Pink sonic?
Sonic became Amy
Well, actually, the original 4:3 intro from sonic CD in origins was actually made for the original sonic cd in the 90s using cel animation but was compressed for the pixelated screen on the sega cd. It's just they looked into the archives and restored the film to make it look nicer.
If the intro was made nowadays, it would use digital animation instead of cels and it would look like the other cutscenes in origins.
Right, but the 2011 Sonic CD used the original animation, only it was zoomed in to fit the screen. Origins uses the un-zoomed 4:3 animation that was restored by Brady Hartel and his team.
Oh yeah, now I remember. Thanks.
8:41 - Wow Scrap Brain Zone 3 Secret
I have literally never noticed that knuckles was discolored before.
So around 6:54 you were talking about how there are only six chaos emeralds in sonic one and how you were disappointed that the seventh emerald was missing this is because anniversary mode and classic mode are focused more on the story so having the seventh emerald be in the game then the end cutscene show only six would be confusing so that is why the seventh emerald is only in that secret menu in sonic one just thought you would want to know 😊
This video needs more views is really informative about every nook and cranny in origins for newcomers and old players
Fun fact:When you finish Sonic CD the ending cutscene from the original Sonic CD is actually speed up. And in the good ending it's more noticable because you see a picture of sunflowers and a text that says:You're cool! The sunflower photo dissapears before the text,when they are ment to dissapear together.
Also,here is the explanation for why is Knuckles was more pink and had yellow socks rather than a red color and green socks. It's actually a glitch. Sonic 3 has a sprite pallete status table(which is where the palletes for sprites are stored in the games). When Knuckles spawns,do to a graphical glitch with Sonic or Eggman's pallete(i think), Knuckles pallete gets overloaded,resulting in the game giving Knuckles yellow socks and a pinkish color in the Sonic 3 and Knuckles cutscenes.
By the way,Love your videos!
Keep up the good work Bobby Bionic👍!!!
You can actually play Blue Sphere in Anniversary Mode and New Blue Sphere in Classic Mode using level select! It’s neat that this was included for those who prefer it that way
I love the way they make the screen shake with super sonic drop dash
Well, as far as I know, the game still has Denuvo (or however you spell it)
... Don't really know why, but it does
56:54 I wish they would do that and the way you edited that in was so realistic looking
This was a great video, it honestly showed me ALOT of new things in the game!
Despite its flaws, I still enjoy Sonic Origins. I'd really like a physical copy though like what happened with Mania.
you're in luck mr ratchet
GOSH, I WAS SEARCHING THIS VIDEO SINCE ORIGINS' RELEASE!!
Glad you found it!
One cool thing like you mentioned would be to pick a sprite and then remix your own adventure picking from all the zones available..... I would make a "water playlist" having to play through all the water levels.
Glad to hear someone else had that glorious pc collection ^_^
Most changes if not all of them in Sonic 1, CD and 2 (except the "Drop Dash", which is actually a 1-frame Spin Dash) were already implemented in Christian Whitehead's mobile ports
yeah it really bugged me when he talked about hidden palace zone like it was some brand new thing
I really like your idea of sprite swaps. Those could be really cool
I almost ripped my anti-tress ball in half when I heard they changes icecap zone music
the pit in mystic cave leading to hidden palace was added in the mobile port before this release
49:06 When I got Knuckles to Sonic’s 2nd Marble Garden Zone boss, the game crashed… And it somehow works in this gameplay.
Finally someone who isn't going "this game is horrible because Sega used the prototype music because they would have been sued if they didn't" and is appreciating this game
Thanks for highlighting the changes. Especially for the first Sonic the Hedgehog game. Had no idea you could enable the 7th Chaos Emerald after entering the level select code and get Super Sonic. Though I WAS blindsided by the difficulty spike of the new 7th Special Stage. Glad I had the foresight to select the Special Stage from the aforementioned level select screen just to shave off one level to get all Chaos Emeralds. I have a hard copy of Sonic Origins Plus on the Nintendo Switch, courtesy of my older sister. Anniversary Mode of the games mitigated much of the frustration I experienced when I first played each of the four main titles on it. Sonic 1, 2, and 3&Knuckles I experienced on the Genesis while Sonic CD was courtesy of Sonic Gems Collection. First time with Special Stages were quite a nuisance. Anniversary mode made things more bearable with those "Game Coins" that replace the 1-Ups and Continues since they allowed me to retry any Special Stages I had failed. Didn't find THIS out, however, until I blew it on a Sonic 2 Special Stage only for it to offer me another chance.
as someone who beat both games on the mobile rereleases and even messed around with the debug mode, this video just feels so surreal, it's like having information I already knew dumped on me lol
One of my main problems with the new remixes is that they sound similar, and they strangely sound like 3D blast tracks
And 3d blast sounds likes adventure
*The only reason why Tails couldn't turn Super with the Chaos Emeralds in Sonic The Hedgehog 2 is because he didn't know how to use them.*
Fair, those things don't come with instructions
I’m still bewildered that people got stuck on that barrel
24:08 Lamp post, ahh yes, my favorite checkpoint
The Best Ending Cutscene of all I find is the Sonic Origins ending.
I agree with you on the Launch Base theme. I far prefer the more military sounding track then the original.
This guy expected sonic 1 to have the same features as sonic 2 and be changed for the first time in almost like 28 years and then praises the features they basically did nothing to help with
Man, you predicted some of Sonic Origins Plus. That’s awesome!
8:35 I'm pretty sure I've seen one of the devs say that the reason it's a recolor of Labyrinth Zone is so that it feels like Robotnik is sending you backward in the game, hampering your progress and forcing you to claw your way back up.
But I've also seen a source saying that the background originally would've been different if it weren't for the limitations of the Genesis (size, palette, etc.), so idk.
Ignoring every problem with origins itself, all the addtions and new animations added in s3&k are amazing, and I'm really bummed that people don't notice or acknowledge them.
I want to point out that Eggman's "voice" is actually part of the music tracks. That's why his laugh is still in the game. As for Sonic's voice, I'm going to go with what a lot of commenters have said and say that it's because Sonic doesn't talk in the cutscenes, so it'd be a little weird to have him randomly talk since the games are presented as one long continuous story.
Right, i do know it's part of the music, in fact this is one of my favorite OSTs from any game. Regardless, it's still mostly understood that it is Eggman's voice.
I'd agree with your point about the continuity between game and cutscenes except for one thing. Even in the original CD, he's not exactly "Talking". At most it's four words total, "Yeah!" and "I'm outta here!" with the latter mostly hidden, and taken out here anyway because there's no game overs. Personally i wouldn't see this breaking the immersion for anyone, especially since the compressed sound basically amounts to a sound effect.
But at the same time there's the matter of the Super Peelout only being in CD in Origins as well, so it's clear consistency wasn't _that_ big a focus
@patrickmcgregor5168 Well, that's a gameplay mechanic. You can't really remove it. Another reason as to why Sonic's audio could be due to the removal of Game Overs, so Sonic's random leaving the game wouldn't happen, and the devs probably figured if that the "I'm outer here!" isn't going to be heard, just remove the rest of the dialogue to avoid paying royalties. That or they didn't realize there was more dialogue, and the other clips were removed by accident. I'm still going with my original theory, though.
Fascinating breakdown. I personally can’t get over the change in the music in S3&K… but for that, I would throw down on Origins for the “definitive” collection.
There was this rom hack created for sonic 3 I played once called sonic 3 complete, and there was an option to pick what music you heard like you could pick the pc mix, S&K’s mix, and the original sonic 3 mix. If you ask me Sega should do this, but with sonic origins.
I think the canonical reason Tails can't go super is that you need to be attuned to chaos energy to some extent to do so. Sonic is a prodigy in this regard. Knuckles is highly trained, and only 'just' taps into it so his fur doesn't actually change color. Tails only manages any super mode at all by brute forcing it with super emeralds. And Shadow?... He's based on Sonic. Genetically, I mean. So... Chaos Control really shows just how far Sonic could push it if he had the drive to do so. And that's probably the big reason for it. 'Lore.'
I’m gonna think this way now I love this explanation
1. Knuckles has never been trained.
2. It's been stated that only male hedgehogs get yellow forms.
3. Shadow isn't based off of Sonic. In fact, Shadow's over 30 years older than him.
4. Silver?
Well that's one way to make my brain say
13:05
My favorite change is the built in slow-down mode AKA frame drops. Especially impressive to have it happen on an rtx 4090, must have taken actual skill to make the game run like that.
Man, that music playing in the background really makes want to (re)play these games. ....
In the original version of S3&K, in Carnival Night Act 2 as Knuckles, you were able to climb up the pipe that normally shoots Sonic up at the end of the Act and fight Eggrobo that way.
I actually like how the additions that are from future games (mostly) need a cheat to be unlocked, It just feels better. Good video, very comprehensive, the only thing I think you left is that activating the S3 items in Sonic 1 and 2 also gives you the instashield and all the Sonic 3 cheat codes, other than that awesome video keep up the good work.
I actually didn't realize you could use the instashield in 1&2, that's pretty cool! As for the Sonic 3 cheats, most of them were activated in a later patch so i didn't add it to the script. Though i did make sure to at least show the Egg Reverie movement at one point. Thanks for watching, glad you liked the video!
@@BobbyBionic Yeah as an instashield enjoyer the classic games sometimes feel empty without it and its cool to have it
@@terios3andK insta shield is nerfed in 1/2 compared to 3
@@playathesaints9599 Yeah I noticed it, it sadly last like half the time is supposed to, and does not reflect projectiles (tho thats fair that wasn't a thing until the remake), its still usefull as fun but not as much, Mania has the same problem
@@terios3andK if you have Sonic 2 on mobile, can you access the debug mode? I feel like the newest update or the update before accidentally removed access to it
If sonic 3d blast get added I would rather it be the Saturn version
I just want to mention, in Sonic 1 the look up and croutch animatons use Sonic 2 frames to make it more smooter.
yep. it was DEFINETLY a thing back in the 90's for games to cut out their music at the end, and THEN loop.
AHEM Spyro the god damn Dragon
Some of these secret routes with Knuckles and Tails were in the 2013 CW release.
The Sonic Origins PLUS follow up video is out now! : th-cam.com/video/W7YOh7gGv4A/w-d-xo.html
12:46 The Reason Sonic doesn't have voice clips is do to classic sonic (since generations) being mute. So it's simply sega keeping continuity.
that, and theyd have to pay royalties lol
My favourite changes Made in Sonic Origins happens to be Tails, Knuckles, Spin-dash, Tails' flight ability and Drop-dash added in Sonic 1, Knuckles, Elemental Shields, 4 more 2-Player mode stages, Hidden Palace Zone, Tails' flight ability, Super Tails and Drop-dash added in Sonic 2, Tails, Drop-dash, Music soundtrack switching and Spin-dash switching added in Sonic CD, Drop-dash, Eggrobo in Egg Hanger and Hyper Tails added in Sonic 3 & Knuckles, and even a Pause Menu, a Restart option on the Pause Menu and a Boss Rush added to all the classic Sonic videogames.
This video aged very well, Can't wait to see what sonic origins plus has to offer, You really nailed majority of what Sega could offer in the future for this game or did Sega themselves watched your video take notes?🤔
The "Collect Blue Spheres" was never named like that. it went from Blue Sphere to Blue Spheres and now you have New Blue Sphere/s with Mania Exclusive Spheres included.
The "Collect Blue Spheres" in my script was a mistake. It should have been "Get Blue Spheres." The special stage game didn't have an official name until years later, so it was often referred to as Get Blue Spheres after the text on the it's title screen.
@@BobbyBionic that would still be mistake a little but since it's Sonic we're talking about it's natural to pick on details.
I kind of like the idea of SB3 being a recolor of Green Hill, to show how far you've come on the adventure.
The Only change of music track in Sonic 3 & Knuckles Made I like is the Super-Hyper form track being different to the Invincibility music track. I also remembered that when Sonic or Tails or even the Sonic & Tails duet fight Big Arms, the sky in the background dusks, where as when Knuckles battles Big Arms, the sky in the background does not dusk. After Big Arms has been defeated by Sonic, Tails or even Sonic & Tails and before the Death Egg Spaceship falls, the sky in the background dawns.
you can also cheat yourself an easy super sonic in the first lamppost in Sonic 2 and it works on the story mode as well.
you basically just collect 50 rings and do the special stage, after you hit restart and collect the 50 coins again and instead of putting you back in the first one.
you find yourself in the second special stage instead.
it isn't that huge thing seeing as you can already get super in Emerald hill, but kinda fun bug in the restart feature anyway.
Fun Fact! In Sonic 3, (SONIC ORGINS) they tried to replicate the prototype songs in certain levels, but sonic origins music was a little different compared with the prototype music.
IM STILL ON MY PLAYTHROUGH(for the like 1 millionth time) ON MY ORIGINAL XBOX SONIC SEGA MEGA COLLECTION PLUS AND IVE JUST BEATEN SONIC 1 WITH ALL EMERALDS AND 2 AND 3:edit: hidden palace zone was in the mobile release
The only changes I don’t like are the removal of lives, the fudging of Tails’ super form, and the ability to retry the special zones. Everything else is really neat.