46233 Duchess of Sutherland Struggles to leave Soggy Devon. The Cathedrals Express 3rd Sept. 2016
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ก.ย. 2016
- On a wet and windy day we once more find 46233 travelling from Bristol to Devon, (“Ambassador, you are spoiling us”!) this time at the head of Steam Dreams; “Cathedrals Express” to Kingswear although due to “gauging issues” steam only as far as Newton Abbot with the supporting diesel completing the tour. Meanwhile 46233 embarked on a mini excursion of her own with service coach to Plymouth Laira for turning. We pick up the action between showers along the sea wall at Dawlish where the poor lighting and a less than exciting pass might have been all I was left to show for the day as torrential rain and high winds set in for the rest of the afternoon. However as the rain eased I decided to risk filming the departure from Newton Abbot platform 1 and therefore chose the “unrestricted” (for pedestrians) area of the Network Rail access road to Hackney sidings to film proceedings. After backing on to the train passengers & local spectators brave the light rain and are more than rewarded by the sights and sounds of this wonderful machine before she calls her passengers back on board for a departure which does not go strictly to plan! Through clouds of steam blown my way I have to virtually guess the whereabouts of the loco as she struggles to depart and eventually grinds to a halt. Once the safety valves calm down we hear the crew conversing over the radio before the diesel draws the train back into the station. By now the rain is falling heavily as the crew disappear under one of the rear carriages to effect a fix to what I would guess was a brake-pipe union leak (confirmed by "Andy Taylor" in the comments section below). With the line clear and brakes well and truly off, the train sets off once more into the rain with minimal slip on the wet rails and a delay of 15 minutes made up before arrival at Bristol.
The story can now be told. After 6233 coupled to the train and departed from NA it was apparent (to me!) that we had dragging brakes. I stopped and got permission to set back into the station to clear the main line, and attend to the problem. Cords pulled, and it apparent on the second departure how much easier the train pulled away. Be
ats a failure or stopping OOC on the main line where delays could be caused. What a lovely day out with my favourite Loco. (although not my favourite to Drive, that honour falls to 70013.).
Hi Andy and thank you so much for taking the time to explain what really happened on the day. Best regards, Alan
Great to hear first hand what happened. I’m sat here thinking what on earth, a duchess struggling? Never 😂
See it seems so clear the issue isn't how the loco is being driven (considering the description literally mentions going under a carriage to find a brake problem). There doesn't appear to be any slipping, just no movement.
Well done for your intelligent assessment of the situation!
Glad you like her Andy. My uncle Percy was probably on the footplate with you in spirit, if not in body. He had driven her a number of times for the LMS and later in BR days. In fact, he had rotated around most of the Big Lizzies and Royal Scot Class, along with a good smattering of the Patriot and Jubilee Class locos. Percy was a top link driver for the LMS on expresses out of Euston, a Wessy (formerly of the LNWR), he had been on the footplate of the streamlined locos in the 1930's. His knowledge of each of the Big Lizzies was astounding, from the maintenance record right down to the pecadillos of each engine in firing and driving. Always green eye when he visited my grandad on occasion. Why? Both grandfathers were 45 year veteran drivers of the GCR, LNER, and later BR, and three uncles were firemen on the same out of shed 71J (Langwith Junction). Still a lot a rivalry between the LNER and LMS men despite it all being BR at that time. Ted Mayes, my fourth uncle, came from oily rag, up through steam, onto diesel, and then electrics. He ended up finally as a senior instructor for BR, and took 4000 Kestrel on her trials hauling 2000 ton coal loads from Shirebrook Colliery to High Marnham Power Station. I can still remember seeing her resplendent in the sidings at Shirebrook engine shed. I loved the loco Sir William A Stanier FRS. Such a great pity that she was cut up at Cashes in 1967 and not saved. In fact, the day I met Percy as a small boy he told me that in three weeks time he would be driving her. Never been on the footplate, but steam, it is still in my blood. It will never leave me. The smell, the sound, the look....nothing can surpass a steam locomotive.
Mike Sanders
The scene at the beginning of this video, as the DoS hauls her carriages along the seafront is just so evocative and typically indicative of the wonderful era of British steam. Indeed, viewing such engineering perfection and beauty in motion almost brings a tear to the eye. Thanks so much for uploading all of these fantastic videos that are an absolute joy to watch.
A very kind and profound comment. Thank you so much. Alan
Engineering perfection? Must be like Glock's "perfection". What passes for "perfection" in backwards ass European countries who don't know a hell of a lot about anything with more than 5 moving parts and what passes for "perfection" for people who know enough about all things mechanical to know perfection doesn't exist are two entirely different things. When was the "wonderful era of British steam"? I can't see dealing with gutless pieces of shit like that on a daily basis being too "wonderful". But then again you'd be the passenger and not out having to get that junk to work and fighting it day in and day out, too. Typical foamer. Sees one hell of a lot of work and machinery and technology that killed many, many people and orphaned many, many children and work that was hard-ass work on an easy day and gets all warm and fuzzy inside thinking of how "joyous" railroading is. If your involvement in it ends at watching, that is.
Don`t be so sour DEEREMEYER1. I`ll bet that you are an absolute joy and a bundle of laughs at a party - NOT !
Gutless? I don't think 40,000lbf tractive effort and north of 2500dbhp (3350ihp) is much to sneer at. Bear in mind the loading gauge restrictions Stanier had to work with, the Duchess was a masterpiece - and nobody was ever killed working on them (or any steam locomotive that I know of). As for "backwards" European countries, we have produced vastly superior locomotives, cars, ships, firearms, machinery etc to anything America has produced... look at the P-51 Mustang, designed to a British specification and only worked when they ditched the wretched Allison V12 in favour of a Rolls-Royce one... and contrast the technical sophistication of a Rolls-Royce car, or a Mercedes, with the crudeness of a Cadillac... for heavens' sake, even your washing machines are laughably primitive compared to ours. And what is the world's longest-lived, most widely-used rifle? The old .303" Lee-Enfield, used to tremendous effect in so many wars, including the Finnish war against Stalin's Russia... and still capable of a rate of fire and long-range precision that modern rifles struggle to beat, over a century on.
Starting 1:48 is the best clip I've seen for a very long time. Congratulations and thanks to the person with the camera whose captured the power and majesty of the loco.
Brilliant film and brilliant loco. I have been on the footplate at Scarborough. The fireman on the day called her “ the Rolls Royce of engines”!
Hi and thank you for your kind and interesting comments. I can truly sympathise with the crewman's sentiments! Best regards, Alan
Love The Duchess, fantastic powerful loco and hoping to travel behind her someday. Obviously unlikely to happen too soon while she's out for repair etc.
Seems clear to me, even without reading the comments that the problem wasn't how she was being driven. Clear on the second departure that the footplate men know what they're doing, especially with the small slip that's recovered immediately.
Fantastic camerawork by you and you got some great shots here.
Thanks again Olan. See Andy Taylors comment below, he was driving on the day. Kind regards, Alan
I love this engine so much. It's beautiful, powerful, not to mention me and the locomotive share the same last same.
Hello Mr/s/ss Sutherland and thank you for your valued comment. Regards, Alan
Those Duchess safety valves are truly something else. I was standing next to one of the later Duchesses at BHM one year and all of a sudden her safety valves lifted. I must have jumpex a foot with shock - I'd never heard a sound 'that' loud before - or since. BTW she looks lovely in green!
Hello Ian and thank you for your interesting comments. I totally sympathise and also hate it when a boiler blows-off nearby as you have no prior warning, unlike GWR boilers which gradually release excess pressure! Kind regards, Alan
It seems, there was a brake binding problem further back. So it was not the fault of this superb loco. Great filming Alan, as always. And yes I was there.
Hi Richard and thank you for the nice comment, I have been away, hence the delay in my response. Best regards, Alan
LOOKS SO CUTE. BEAUTIFUL LOOK. LOOKS. Iam looking locomotive since my childhood .railway track 260 meters away from my HOUSE .Now I am 70 years OLD .TQ SIR...
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Hi and thank you for such an interesting comment. Kind regards, Alan
A fantastic video many thanks for filming and posting watched it three times . Regards Gav .
Many thanks Gav, your kind comments are very much appreciated. Best regards, Alan
Excellent video of a majestic locomotive
Many thanks John. Regards, Alan
Thank you for sharing .
You are welcome, glad you enjoyed. Regards, Alan
Simply wonderful.
Hi Norbert, your kind remarks are much appreciated. Best regards, Alan
Hey, dedication indeed to venture out on such a foul day! I gave this one a miss due to the weather & the fact the loco was only going as far as Newton Abbot with its train.
Great video Alan. I can see what I missed now.
Geraint
Hi Geraint and thank you for for your kind feedback. Sorry I have not responded sooner, I have been out of the country and having a forced break from filming U.K. steam! Best regards, Alan
Quality as ever Alan , the two goes at leaving the station were fantastic with Simon Scott hanging out of the cab . Glad to see you had some of the wet stuff the same as us LOL .
Hi Stephen and thank you for your kind and informative comments. I think that our moors can produce at least as of the wet stuff as yours! although our rain might be slightly warmer!! Best regards, Alan
THANK'S YOU !
Superb video Alan. Loved the multiple shots at Dawlish They were great. Plenty going on at Newton Abbot. Well worth going down there as you not only got a departure but 2 departures instead. ( Greedy lol ) Regards C&A
Hi guys: thank you for your welcome feedback as usual. That whole thing at Newton Abbot was really "last minute" and I was surprised that I had the location to myself as it would not have looked the same from the platform..... although it may have been a little drier!! Best wishes, Alan
Saw this epic loco come through our town a few weeks back, what a beast :)
Thanks for your comment Paul, even at a stand she looks impressive, but even better hard at work. You might enjoy this clip: th-cam.com/video/wuu3lyqZRA0/w-d-xo.html Best regards, Alan
we were on this trip, and yes it was very wet !, remember we got to Kingswear but didn't bother to go across to Dartmouth as pouring down. can see me taking photos before we left Newton Abbott at front of engine (3-18) :)
Hi and thank you for your interesting comments and hope that the clip brought back happy memories for you despite the rain. I am looking forward to filming her in Crimson as LMS 6233 after the current light overhaul. Regards, Alan
Nice filming and cutting, congratulations!
Hello Michel and thank you for your kind feedback. Best regards, Alan
I was really feeling for the Duchess, willing her to make it! I read the reason why and then it all went OK - even if she did have to lug that blue lump as well. Bit wet & steamy Alan but great stuff all the same. You always manage to find the best spots which makes your vids a joy to watch Thanks.
Thank you Bob, I really appreciate your kind comments. Best regards, Alan
Sometimes even a duchess struggles, remember dat.
Locomotivele cu aburi din MAREA BRITANIE sunt cele mai frumoase din lume. Clipurile video sunt excelente.
FELICITĂRI!
Bună ziua și vă mulțumesc pentru feedback-ul dvs. Cu plăcere, Alan
this engine is one my favs on my train simulator 2018! been experimenting American type whistles on it for the fun of it!
Sounds interesting! There is an American loco running near my house sounding it's whistle as I write this! Spooky!! Regards, Alan
What blew off more, the guy smoking or the safety valves.
Duchess of Sutherland, was BR 46233 in apple green, now looking great in her original red livery. LMS 6233.
Great video...Steve.-:)
Cheers Steve. Best wishes, Alan
Think you might have needed wipers for your camera lens! Great video, despite the atrocious conditions.
I could have done with a diving suit myself!, all my soggy kit and clothes went in the airing cupboard when I got home. Alan
Bet the fireman was happy - seeing his most of his well-prepared fire going skywards in a few seconds!!!
Beautiful engine and always jet washes the platform on the way out
Awesome loco saw her at butterley many times with Maggie rose.. Keep your Gresleysgive me a duchess, scot , and my favourite a jubilee any day
Thanks again for your interesting comments Geoff and nice to see that "Regional loyalty" is still alive and well. Of course you are referring to the wonderful locomotive designs created by (or derived from) the best of the L.M.S. Chief Engineers who (as a "G.W.R. man" I am proud to say) was a product of "Swindon" training and know-how! Best regards, Alan
CU PRIMUL TREN DIN LUME , A CIRCULAT ȘI ROMANUL PETRACHE POENARU ! O D din Comănești - Romania .
Magnificent
Many thanks for your kind and much appreciated feedback. I have been off-line for 4 weeks hence the late resonse. Best regards, Alan
Love the Duchess in her BR livery!
Yeah in the BR Green livery it looks very nice 👍🏻
Some awesome camera work, what have you got - I want one !
Can't help thinking that the Dutchess caused some of the problem with all that venting of cylinders on a cold day obviously condensing on cold rails ahead ?
This rarely happened in BR days I have seen many clean departures from Rugby and Nuneaton with no slipping with 3" snow on ground and 13 coaches. Dare I suggest somewhat in-experienced crew - watch out for the bricks Grahame !
They hadn't got Smartphones then I don't think ?
It shows it can easily be done with the second attempt.
Sorry reading comments below, didn't remember to take handbrake off - must admit I have done that Doh ! - although thank goodness it's goes off automatically on my new car.
Hello Grahame and thank you for your kind and interesting comments. You may be interested in the "Andy Taylor" comment below, he was on the footplate. The camera I use is a Canon XH1As. Best regards, Alan
Cylinder drain cocks have to be kept open or you'll get condensation forming in the cylinders, which could wreck them and the motion as water is not compressible.
Can anyone explain for me the “gauging issues” that limited steam travel only as far as Newton Abbot?
Hello Patrick and thank you for your question. Steam locomotives travelling to Kingswear are turned at Churston where an extender has to be fitted to turn the "extra long" LMS Duchess and Princess classes. The extender prevents the turntable completing a full turn and so the adjacent sidings have to be used as a mini-triangle to complete the operation. Unfortunately at the time of this tour, the sidings were full of stock which could not be moved elsewhere and therefore the locomotive could not be turned. Regards, Alan
What's Freddie Flintoff doing on the footplate @ 8:27?
Hi and thank you for making me smile. 11 out of 10 for imagination!! Kind regards, Alan
Well that made your lens suitably opaque!
Should have taken the underwater kit!
You'll be needing auto wash-wipe for you camera..!
Now there's an idea! Thank you for the fun comments. Regards, Alan
No worries, any time! :)
Standers masterpiece. Power unlimited
I cannot argue with that Michael. Thank you for your comment. Regards, Alan
Didn't the diesel help the poor old girl?
Description of video says Diesel did help.
Not a lot the diesel can do if the brakes are playing up...
Hope you don't mind me asking but is the diesel attached to the rear of the train there for just auxiliary purposes such as supplying electric power to the coaches or also for the occasional power assistance to the steam engine and brake down incidents? Thanks.
Hello John, delighted that you asked and happy to answer with my current understanding. All steam tours have to be backed-up with diesel support in one form or another. This Steam Dreams tour was diesel hauled to Bristol, the diesel then being attached to the rear for convenience i.e. without the need for a separate "light engine" path. Dining Tours such as Belmond and Saphos have a diesel to supply electric power to catering. Tours which include a lot of shunting will also attach a diesel. It is rare to see tours without a diesel on the back these days but those with steam from start to finish are the most likely e.g. the Great Britain or Royal Duchy tours which have their support diesel on a separate path. Other "unassisted" tours may have arranged "parked" diesels at strategic locations along the route e.g.The English Riviera Express, although this is now quite rare. I hope this goes some way to answer your question. Kind regards, Alan
@@Steamclips Hi Alan, many thanks for compressive answer. Greetings from John, Auckland, New Zealand.
BR 46233 in trouble with soggy track conditions, backs in Newton Abbot, and makes it out of the station with the tour train.
what was the fireman doing 8:30 and 8:40
Coaldust gets everywhere! At least he has an excuse, not like footballers!!
hahaah nice one have a good day sir
Looks kind of like a Union Pacific 844
I see the update about brakes sticking on, but did the fireman panic there a bit before they stopped to check the brakes?.....it's just pouring soot out the chimney on the first start attempt, like some mechanically fired American freight engine with cheap coal, as if the fireman chucked a bunch of coal on the fire indiscriminately in a hurry to raise steam. And then when it finally gets going for real, a perfectly laid fire, almost pure steam, hardly any soot at all.
Hello and thank you for your comment/question. I am sure that Andy Taylor (below) can provide you with a definitive answer to the soot in the exhaust but for what it is worth, here is my assumption: With a head of steam already built up and ready for the flat run to Exeter it is common practice (for a pacific's big shallow grate) to build the fire with cold material which would have heated through quickly once the loco got underway. The additional load caused by the dragging brakes however necessitated much more regulator than would normally be required, causing a lot of unburnt material to be drawn up the exhaust. Once the brakes were released, the train was able to move off with very little regulator, no disturbance of the fire and subsequently cleaner exhaust. I volunteer with an ex-B.R. fireman and we often have these types of discussion! Regards, Alan
Did they get permission to set back?
Hello Stuart and thank you for your question and although I cannot of course give you a definitive answer, I am sure that Exeter signalling (who I believe were still in control at the time of this tour) were made aware of circumstances and agreed the set back into the station as they let a passing service train through then signalled the restart 15 minutes after the original departure time. Regards, Alan
Lol, that was on my birthday too.
Why do these prestige railtours have the added dead weight of having to haul a tatty old 47 behind them or in some cases be HEADED in FRONT of the loco by an awful 66 :o
Hi and thank you for the interesting questions. I have to agree that diesels on the rear are not ideal, but on the front are catastrophic as far as photography is concerned. The ones placed on the front are usually a last minute insistence by Network Rail, for example: to reduce "fire risk". The ones on the back are usually prescribed by the operator. This can either be for "top and tail" movement somewhere in the tour or simply as back-up where a separate path to move the diesel "light engine" is inconvenient. Hope this helps. Regards, Alan
I once saw a Britannia class loco go though St Austell (possibly Britannia itself) and the diesel was inserted behind the tender and painted the same colour as the tender. It camouflaged nicely looking almost like a second tender!
Operational reasons.
These things happen. Glad the engine got away.
what was happening at Newton Abbott with backing the train into the platform?
also often wonder why the drain cocks arexleft open for such along time as the loco gets shrouded in steam.
often wonder if they leave them on for so long for dramatic effect
The Cylinder Cocks as we call them here in the USA are left open so water and condensation can escape while starting up while steam is not at its hottest. If this were not done the Cylinder Heads could explode if the pressure of the water against the cylinder head is too great rendering the steam locomotive useless.
Conductor261 yes I realise what they are for but they seemed to be open for a long time
Hi Steven, thank you for your questions. As I described in the footnotes, it appears that a leaky brake pipe union was causing the brakes to drag and therefore the diesel on the rear dragged the train back into the platform for the problem to be rectified. LMS locomotives from Staniers time do seem particularly prone to accumulating water in the cylinders at rest and at low speed. The drain cock on a particularly troublesome cylinder might even be left partially open all the time as displayed by many clips on TH-cam.The very humid conditions on the day probably exaserbated the problem and for safety-sake the crew probably kept the cocks open a little longer than usual. Regards, Alan
Not like the time when 'Blue Peter' ventured onto the Southern and literally ran out of steam due to the centre cylinder cock jamming open… One of the saddest failures of all...
marsvltor2 what happened to 60532 Saw her on NYMR in August 2000
D.O.S's team coach needs a repaint in red colours
hahaha, at 5m 57s the old girl stops for a wee :D
🎊
That crew were a joke. Fireman is clueless. Throwing it on making lots of black smoke,then she is blowing off like mad then he opens the injector to cool her down again,what the hell is he doing. These modern crews are shit scared of running out of steam so over cook it all the time. When I learnt to fire on a preserved line years ago I prided myself on not blowing off all the time. Would invite ex BR fireman on for a chat when in a station and learned from the pros. What a load of cowboys. Good old class 47 saved the day. Rick M
Id like to see you try...
The driver commented below, brakes was dragging on first attempt.
Another idiot armchair enthusiast, keyboard warrior who doesn't know what he's talking about.
michelle marshall
They're just crap drivers. My grandad wouldnt have had these problems. Nearly every heritage kettle I see has loads of slip pulling from a standstill on the level. That's down to the driver, nowt else.
Id like to see you try...
The comment literally right below yours explains that the brakes were holding her back!
Idiot armchair enthusiast. Your grandad would have been disappointed in you slagging off these hard working lads!
Gonads watch what you call a kettle you twat
I’d love to see what YOU would do to start the journey