My brother was a fireman on the South African engines and I remember how often he came home barely able to walk after an apple run to Elgin and over the various mountain passes. He turns 70 next week and he still relives those glory days through these videos. You can still see his passion for steam: it's something one never loses. The sight and sound of these queens still thrills one's soul. Thanks for the awesome videos!!
Mitchell Hogg. It's very difficult to maintain traction on a hill like that with Wet Rails and that many coaches behind you no matter how much you sand the track but I think that Driver would be more than happy to let an armchair expert like yourself show him how it's done properly.
@@davidellis279 well when you consider that thats supposed to be the most powerful passenger locomotive Britain ever produced...pulling a relatively short train...seems like it's struggling just a little bit too much to downright dismiss driver error
@@davidellis279 these trains used to thunder up and down those lines except twice as long and to extremely strict timetables they simply couldn't afford slip-ups like that. Sure the driver recovered it excellently but it shouldn't of happened in the first place
Mitchell Hogg. I've Never seen a train with 20 coaches on in my life as that's 600 tons in coaches alone before anybody gets on board, the Duchess Class was one of the most powerful locomotives ever built and that was probably half the problem, if you can't get grip it doesn't matter how much power you have it will slip and there's no getting around it, as soon as you open that regulator that power is transmitted to the wheels and with 300 tons plus passengers on board and only just over 100 tons holding it to the wet track it's not surprising on that Gradient the loco slipped, not a lot the driver can do about it.
Superb work from the crew wouldve resulted in no struggle at all. This is meant to be the 2nd most powerful steam locomotive ever to run on british tracks
Hemerdon was always a killer that needed to be taken at a rush even withe a King. I have often wondered why it was designed with such a savage finish when a bit more work in construction would have eased things. Pacifics don't take kindly to being forced to apply maximum torque at lower speeds.
I've seen this video several times. I'm always impressed by the 'recovery skills' of the crew, and whilst not doubting the difficulties Hemerdon throws at 'the unsuspecting', the engine was obviously ready, with a full head of steam, and no obvious leaks around the cylinders ... I still find this a little unusual - perhaps the initial approach was too gentle. Al.
Beautiful footage mate, that must have been some gradient to get a Duchess to slip to a near stand like that (even with a damp railhead). I'm glad the final shot is of her at speed like it's business as usual :)
@@lisastallingskeelor3328 Yeah, Lisa enhanced by her(the loco's)appealing and pleasing appearance! It's just a shame that more of this Class of Locomotive were not saved-they had wonderful names such as Duchess of Atholl and Duchess of Montrose for instance.....Oh! and Yes, the Cars(Coaches) especially the Dining ones are alluring
Nice idea to go a bit further along at Hemerdon, so we get a slightly different angle from everyone else! Although I expect there probably wasn't any room on the bridge anyway.
A friend who knows more than I do about these things would claim that this is where GW 4-6-0's come into their own, because as the loco attempts to accelerate uphill the tendency for the weight to be transferred to the rear driving axle is not detrimental to grip, whereas in the case of a 4-6-2 some of the weight is being transferred to the trailing wheels and is no longer helpful with traction. Given that steam locos don't accelerate like dragsters, I don't know how true this is. I've never seen a loco wheelying, but I do understand the word "tendency" - and that this effect may be quite subtle but real. I'm sure someone here knows the answer.
The GWR wouldn't send a prime condition 4-6-0 out with 10 on up the banks in April's damp conditions without a banker. The Duchess was cold(ish) and the track was very damp. Surprised they were allowed away from the station without a diesel on the rear.
The rear pony on a Duchess is the equivalent of a wheelie bar on drag cars and does not make use of the rotational torque during acceleration. The effect is akin to lifting the driving wheels, unlike on a 4-6-0. Does wonders for stability at speed, but promotes wheel slip (remember the SR Spamcans?)
I did some work on this engine when it was owned by Billy Butlin and had a cracked firebox at Bressingham Steam Museum in Norfolk. They had the Royal Scot there too!
Rusty rails , empty sand boxes , makes for a trying time for both driver and loco ! Congrats to fireman for keeping up a full head of steam , and to the driver , "Well done" persistence pays !
Hats off to the fireman for maintaining a boiler at over pressure, he must have been shoveling like a bugger, no wonder the GWR settled for smaller engines builds , less smokebox area to create the same pressure as a massive LMS machine, i never got that until now
I like your video. like mine, no one around to spoil with some foamer commentary. great angles, cngratulations on a job well done. Been trackside for 60 years, but not salivating at the sight of every train.
Beautiful engine. Got to know the engine in South Africa as a Triang-Hornby HO model!!! Seeing the real thing - still only on video - is quite something... Did they have sand up that hill?
How come my Dad (Piccolo Pete) drove these beasts up Shap and Beattock in the 60s with loads of clanking and all sorts of crap with aload of 14 maybe..was he better!!
My father was a mainline fireman out of the Willesden sheds, back in the days when it was LMS, always went to work in a nice white collared shirt,but often came home (not the same day) with same shirt ripped from sweating. They were truly great strong men.
Interesting. As a rule of thumb the Duchess with somewhere in the region of 2,000-2,400hp at its disposal, has a similar capacity to a class 47 (Nominally 2,500hp, less any train heating demand). But the problem on hills is that while a 47 has 12 driving wheels the Duchess only has SIX ! Therefore the Duchess has to put more power through each of its six drivers than the diesel does with 12 wheels. Hence is more likely to wheel slip and loose any momentum, so ends up having to "Slog" up the hill, using pure "guts". If a steam loco slips as badly as the Duchess is heard too, the driver is obliged, to shut & then reopen the regulator (power handle). Otherwise both wheels and the rail head can be damaged. Obviously momentum is lost when the regulator is closed, even momentarily, and being a superheated loco, there is a slight further delay in getting the power back to the wheels. As an ex Exeter Driver many years ago, I drove numerous Diesels up & down this gradient, and even HST's noticed the grade. But Diesels are a lot simpler to drive, than the skills required to coax a steam loco up such gradients. So full marks to the crew driving the Duchess up Hemerdon in this piece of film !!!!
ivansaric33 3350hp. 40,000 lb-ft tractive torque. The Coronation class is the most powerful steam locomotive ever to grace British railways. She could do the London to Glasgow run average in 85 to 90 miles per hour only needing to stop once for water. When you consider that she was built in 1938 I think that's rather incredible!
could have had a diesel on the rear, but, that is one coach less, that is say 40 bums on seats that is lost, the duchess has more than enough power for 10 coaches, if the rails had been dry, she would have romped up the big hill.
I think I counted 10 coaches which she should have been capable of handling. Nursing like this is unusual, I wonder if the sand boxes were in use & if she approached the incline at too low a speed. Still great crew determination, I bet they wondered if they would make it home for tea.
My brother was a fireman on the South African engines and I remember how often he came home barely able to walk after an apple run to Elgin and over the various mountain passes. He turns 70 next week and he still relives those glory days through these videos. You can still see his passion for steam: it's something one never loses. The sight and sound of these queens still thrills one's soul. Thanks for the awesome videos!!
How’s your brother doing now?
Great camera location for Hemerdon. Great sound and real steam engine driving wonderful
What a fabulous sound she makes! I remember seeing her in York station a few years ago and being thrilled to see and hear her starting off.
Great stuff - the fireman has just the right mix and the driver has great reflex action on the regulator. Well enjoyed, thanks for posting!
Oh! Wow,that climb was hellish. Well done the men on board who babied her all the way,and,never gave up. Excellent .
well that's just it, you cant give up, you have to find a way to get up
Handling so much power with valves and brakes. Great job !!!
Great video. So nice to see mainline steam with no diesel to spoil it!
A box on the back might have come in handy here, but the crew got her going regardless.
That's a real driver, never give up on the old lady she got there in the end.
On the comtrary, a real driver would never have allowed the wheels to slip under the engine
Mitchell Hogg. It's very difficult to maintain traction on a hill like that with Wet Rails and that many coaches behind you no matter how much you sand the track but I think that Driver would be more than happy to let an armchair expert like yourself show him how it's done properly.
@@davidellis279 well when you consider that thats supposed to be the most powerful passenger locomotive Britain ever produced...pulling a relatively short train...seems like it's struggling just a little bit too much to downright dismiss driver error
@@davidellis279 these trains used to thunder up and down those lines except twice as long and to extremely strict timetables they simply couldn't afford slip-ups like that. Sure the driver recovered it excellently but it shouldn't of happened in the first place
Mitchell Hogg. I've Never seen a train with 20 coaches on in my life as that's 600 tons in coaches alone before anybody gets on board, the Duchess Class was one of the most powerful locomotives ever built and that was probably half the problem, if you can't get grip it doesn't matter how much power you have it will slip and there's no getting around it, as soon as you open that regulator that power is transmitted to the wheels and with 300 tons plus passengers on board and only just over 100 tons holding it to the wet track it's not surprising on that Gradient the loco slipped, not a lot the driver can do about it.
Oh the days of steam ,those journeys always fealt like you were going on a special adventure 😊😊
Wow what a struggle but superb work from the crew saved the day (and the engine!). And great commitment from the film work!
Superb work from the crew wouldve resulted in no struggle at all. This is meant to be the 2nd most powerful steam locomotive ever to run on british tracks
Epic - sanders to the max and great patient driving !!!!
Wonderful.video
Thank you! Excellent camera work and sound. And you're dead right about the crew's control of the locomotive on Hemerdon.
Hemerdon was always a killer that needed to be taken at a rush even withe a King. I have often wondered why it was designed with such a savage finish when a bit more work in construction would have eased things. Pacifics don't take kindly to being forced to apply maximum torque at lower speeds.
Great effort from the crew for not giving up and getting her up the hill
"I think I can, I think I can... I KNOW I CAN, I KNOW I CAN!"
I thought I could, I thought I could, i thought i could.....!
I was about to type that but you beat me to it!
Superb shots !
I do so miss the grace and beauty of the steam age.
I've seen this video several times.
I'm always impressed by the 'recovery skills' of the crew, and whilst not doubting the difficulties Hemerdon throws at 'the unsuspecting', the engine was obviously ready, with a full head of steam, and no obvious leaks around the cylinders ... I still find this a little unusual - perhaps the initial approach was too gentle.
Al.
Superb job from the crew to get her over the top on Hemerdon.
Beautiful footage mate, that must have been some gradient to get a Duchess to slip to a near stand like that (even with a damp railhead). I'm glad the final shot is of her at speed like it's business as usual :)
Amazing compilation. Well done. ;-) Greetings from Argentina. Best regards. Carlos.
The wonderful power and sound of steam
What a magnificent sight to see! Well worth chasing the train! Thank you.
Like thunder in the distance,growing ever louder,then suddenly coming into view in all its might and splendour-unparalleled.
Fantastic stuff Alan love the performance on the bank where she never gave up
Wonderful old engine! Reminds me of my youth. The South African coaches where the same, and the same colour, as these!
Gives a whole new meaning to “I think I can, I think I can.” The little engine that could.
Wonderful 'human' inspiration only found in Steam Locomotives that probably for many of us reflect our lives. Luv your comment
Classic Britain I love the sound of this engine.
@@lisastallingskeelor3328 Yeah, Lisa enhanced by her(the loco's)appealing and pleasing appearance! It's just a shame that more of this Class of Locomotive were not saved-they had wonderful names such as Duchess of Atholl and Duchess of Montrose for instance.....Oh! and Yes, the Cars(Coaches) especially the Dining ones are alluring
2:22 i was just imagining them all waiting for the train only for it to come from the other direction...
What a professional job to get her over the top with 10 on. Well done.
They used to take 14+ over Shap day in, day out. Hemerdon looked a brute!
A great video and an expert driver, thanks for sharing
Nice idea to go a bit further along at Hemerdon, so we get a slightly different angle from everyone else! Although I expect there probably wasn't any room on the bridge anyway.
This was an amazing shot
Excellent footage, really enjoyed watching - I Liked & Subscribed 👍😎
Great video. You can almost feel the driver and fireman "willing" the loco to maintain traction as she struggled up the bank. Excellent stuff.
6233 normally storms up Hemerdon as various youtube videos over the years show. The railhead conditions must have been a problem today.
Vandals with grease buckets perhaps, you never know these days.
Great footage. Keep them coming👍🏻
I`m sure I saw the Duchess of Sutherland when I was a train spotter in the 60s. Probably saw her at Crewe.
Brilliant. What a treat. Just waiting for the first glimpse of her at 36sec is wonderful. Boy! Was she powering along! Absolutely fantastic.
Magnificent.
Great video. You got some sun at Whiteball too.
Beautiful.video
Such a loco and consist looks so in place today. I wish!
Wonderful stuff. Surprised she was only 6 minutes late through Totnes.
Wonderful video, she really struggled up Hemerdon!
Wot a beauty !!!!
A friend who knows more than I do about these things would claim that this is where GW 4-6-0's come into their own, because as the loco attempts to accelerate uphill the tendency for the weight to be transferred to the rear driving axle is not detrimental to grip, whereas in the case of a 4-6-2 some of the weight is being transferred to the trailing wheels and is no longer helpful with traction. Given that steam locos don't accelerate like dragsters, I don't know how true this is. I've never seen a loco wheelying, but I do understand the word "tendency" - and that this effect may be quite subtle but real. I'm sure someone here knows the answer.
The GWR wouldn't send a prime condition 4-6-0 out with 10 on up the banks in April's damp conditions without a banker. The Duchess was cold(ish) and the track was very damp. Surprised they were allowed away from the station without a diesel on the rear.
Would she have always ‘struggled to get up that hill’ or just because she is (x) years old. ???
The rear pony on a Duchess is the equivalent of a wheelie bar on drag cars and does not make use of the rotational torque during acceleration. The effect is akin to lifting the driving wheels, unlike on a 4-6-0. Does wonders for stability at speed, but promotes wheel slip (remember the SR Spamcans?)
I did some work on this engine when it was owned by Billy Butlin and had a cracked firebox at Bressingham Steam Museum in Norfolk. They had the Royal Scot there too!
What a beauty she is!
AWESOME . . . . .
I love your vids
Top notch stuff terrific to see and hear! Only wish I'd have been there in person with you! Thanks for a great posting.
Rusty rails , empty sand boxes , makes for a trying time for both driver and loco !
Congrats to fireman for keeping up a full head of steam , and to the driver , "Well done" persistence pays !
I think rusty rail would have more traction. The track here looks very smooth and shiny, hence why it struggled to get up.
She really gave those spectators a show!
Super vide Alan, thumbs up :)
Good video good locations A lot away or spending
Hats off to the fireman for maintaining a boiler at over pressure, he must have been shoveling like a bugger, no wonder the GWR settled for smaller engines builds , less smokebox area to create the same pressure as a massive LMS machine, i never got that until now
I like your video. like mine, no one around to spoil with some foamer commentary. great angles, cngratulations on a job well done. Been trackside for 60 years, but not salivating at the sight of every train.
Wonderful video and so well filmed
Nice footage. Pity 6229 or 6220 isn't in steam anymore. It would be nice to see A streamlined Stanier running?
I bet the inside of the passenger cars are lovely.
Thanks!
Was Drivers favourite Song "Slippin & a Slidin" by Little Richard.
Roger 😎
A brilliant recovery. This was the reason the GWR stuck to 4-6-0s, for better adhesion on the Devon banks.
and yet currently all records are on the devon banks are in the hands of the very loco in this video...
@@andrewyoung749 Oh, ok. Thanks for that. Does make me wonder what their schemed out Pacific might have done though. 👍👍👍
I can never get over just how many carriages they can haul.
unbelievable power..
wow this is a good location for train spotting
Does she shift, stunning performance!
Myriaddsystems 95mph.
Could kick an A4s ass anytime with the right crew and the right track
I was exhausted by the time I got up Hemerdon bank.. I thought I wasn't going to make it !!!!!!
Put her next to a Southern West Country class and you have a nice comfy pair of slippers.
Beautiful engine. Got to know the engine in South Africa as a Triang-Hornby HO model!!! Seeing the real thing - still only on video - is quite something... Did they have sand up that hill?
thanks for sharing Dave & Deb, there is always 1 who gets in the way when you take a picture or video (lol)
Super video!
amazing. I could imagine the crew working there ass off on footplate getting the old girl up hill.
genial los trenes
Great shots Alex, I saw you go passed me at Ashridge .. Excellent locations and filming as usual.
Magnificent machine,beats anything produced by GWR!!
Certainly wasn't short of steam going up Hemerdon!
Not short of steam or power, but short of friction.
The rails looked very shiny. More, smaller wheels give better grip.
How come my Dad (Piccolo Pete) drove these beasts up Shap and Beattock in the 60s with loads of clanking and all sorts of crap with aload of 14 maybe..was he better!!
magical
As ex BR, poor bloody fireman had a wet shirt
My father was a mainline fireman out of the Willesden sheds, back in the days when it was LMS, always went to work in a nice white collared shirt,but often came home (not the same day) with same shirt ripped from sweating. They were truly great strong men.
It always took a double header to get out of weymouth with a 1 in 62 gradient 😊
Interesting. As a rule of thumb the Duchess with somewhere in the region of 2,000-2,400hp at its disposal, has a similar capacity to a class 47 (Nominally 2,500hp, less any train heating demand). But the problem on hills is that while a 47 has 12 driving wheels the Duchess only has SIX ! Therefore the Duchess has to put more power through each of its six drivers than the diesel does with 12 wheels. Hence is more likely to wheel slip and loose any momentum, so ends up having to "Slog" up the hill, using pure "guts".
If a steam loco slips as badly as the Duchess is heard too, the driver is obliged, to shut & then reopen the regulator (power handle). Otherwise both wheels and the rail head can be damaged. Obviously momentum is lost when the regulator is closed, even momentarily, and being a superheated loco, there is a slight further delay in getting the power back to the wheels.
As an ex Exeter Driver many years ago, I drove numerous Diesels up & down this gradient, and even HST's noticed the grade. But Diesels are a lot simpler to drive, than the skills required to coax a steam loco up such gradients. So full marks to the crew driving the Duchess up Hemerdon in this piece of film !!!!
What a struggle gor the loco but with her engineers she succeeds very impressive and nostslgic for a seventy plus admirer
The power :)
ivansaric33 3350hp. 40,000 lb-ft tractive torque.
The Coronation class is the most powerful steam locomotive ever to grace British railways. She could do the London to Glasgow run average in 85 to 90 miles per hour only needing to stop once for water. When you consider that she was built in 1938 I think that's rather incredible!
It struggled up hemerdon bank. Could have done with a Deisel on the rear.
could have had a diesel on the rear, but, that is one coach less, that is say 40 bums on seats that is lost, the duchess has more than enough power for 10 coaches, if the rails had been dry, she would have romped up the big hill.
No Mate just some sand in the boxes.
Great vedio. Tribute to the engineers of the train
Doesn't need a back engine.
Wow!
I’m an American. I’ve not yet been to England. Can someone tell me just how big this hill is?
It's the forth steepest gradient on the British Rail network. 1/42 over 2.5 miles.
One of the steepest in the country
Epic!
She's so beautiful
Perhaps this is why the GWR only ever had one pacific!
looks like duchess of sutherland is struggling to get grip
Serious lack of traction in the dry so in the wet I assume it would not make it.
there's something about a Choo Choo that makes you feel happy........
Do any of these banks have cash points?
I felt like getting out and giving her a push
It's a pity there wasn't a chiropodist on board.
He could have given them a toe.
😁😁😁
surely over-loaded ? blowing off not short of steam, short of adhesion weight vs train resistance
It still only dropped 6 minutes to Totnes, though, nevertheless.
I think I counted 10 coaches which she should have been capable of handling. Nursing like this is unusual, I wonder if the sand boxes were in use & if she approached the incline at too low a speed.
Still great crew determination, I bet they wondered if they would make it home for tea.
Hi Alex, Could we use a snippet of this on our sites? With full credit of course.
No sand?
They almost never blow the whistle on these runs
At "WHISTLE" boards they do!