Walther KKW: Competition Shooting in Nazi Germany
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ส.ค. 2019
- The KKW (“Klein Kaliber Wehrsportgewehr”, or small caliber military sporting rifle) was developed by BDW in 1937 as an amalgamation of various .22 rifle elements form other manufacturers as well as BSW itself. It was intended to fill the role of the German national standard target rifle. When he Nazi party took over Germany in the early 30s, the SA consolidated and reorganized the civilian shooting sports in to a format aimed at military training. To this end, they wanted a standardized rifle which would duplicate the handling of the Mauser K98k in .22 long rifle caliber. This was initially the DSM, but in 1935 the SA decided that it wanted a rifle that more closely mirrors the military pattern Mauser. The result was the KKW. For more information on these and other German 1930s/40s training rifles, I recommend the recent book on the subject by Bob Simpson.
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That's gotta be the nicest .22 I've ever seen.
Its a .22 k98 basically so you can't really go wrong
That would be a great gun to own. Locally I can't own rifles over .22 cal so that would be a nice kar98k representation
Seen the HJ 22 k98,s ?
@@mrijk1946 nope, didn't know they existed?
@William Burns Nah, get a Brno if you want something really nice,CZ is OK but fit and finish not a patch on real Brnos that were all hand fitted,different level of craftsmanship.
I had a gorgeous Mauser .22 (of top of head mm410b)that looked nicer than this Walther.It didnt shoot for shit though,my 50's Brno's eat it for breakfast,better timber,better build,better accuracy.
Honestly, a stripper clip fed .22lr k98k would be awesome.
I doubt stripper clips for .22LR would work that well. But if it could be done, Germany would be the one to make it happen.
@@B52Stratofortress1 They'd probably have to be like those super-elaborate ones the Roth-Steyr used (which Karl amusingly described as "Gucci stripper clips" in an InRangeTV Q&A once).
Please do that video idea, Ian! I wouldn't mind just listening to you on the different subject matters of American GI bring-backs even if you don't have props for it.
Small pedantic comment, "Lang für Büchse" doesn't mean long for shooting but long rifle. .22lr is .22lfb in germany.
Ahhh I assumed lfb would stand for lange flobert.
Danke aber Deutschen sollen Waffen nie wieder haben.....
Huh, the more you know.
That is actually very important to know, not pedantic at all.
@@doctim111 . Zu spät.
Kal .22 Lang für Büchsen (.22lfB) translates to "long for rifles"
doesn't "rifle" translate to "gewehr"? what's the difference between "büchse" and "gewehr"? 🤔
Valyasochka a buchse is more like a sportrifle, I think
Just means .22 Long Rifle
"Büchse" is specifically a long arm with a rifled barrel, and the term is used to differentiate from a "Flinte" (smoothbore/shotgun). "Gewehr" is just a general term for long arm. The term Büchse isn't commonly used in modern times and "Gewehr" is usually understood to mean "rifle".
Fun fact, "Büchse" is a cognate of the English word "box".
TheFatGeneral I don’t think “Büchse” only stand for “Sport Rifle” cuz Panzerbüchse 39 and Granatbüchse 39 literally are not “Sport Rifles”
That looks nicer than a lot of brand new .22's to me
Modern design is a fuckin joke
@@memeaids445 dont buy the cheapo polymer stocked stuff then. lots of really really nice wood stocked .22's (and other caliber} bolt actions are for sale from companies like CZ and Howa
That was made to defeat squirrels panzer units
The reason behind attacking squirrels is all the laughter that happens when Germans attempt to pronounce squirrel around native English speaking people.
@@SlavicCelery what happens? I'm not a native speaker :P
@@GunsNGames1 Germans, even Germans whose English is otherwise very good, notoriously have a hard time saying "squirrel". They keep wanting to put a V sound in it somewhere, and it just doesn't work.
This was supposedly used as a test to flush out deep-cover German agents in England during the war, although as with many such stories, I have my doubts that it ever really happened.
Beautiful weapon. You can't beat polished blued steel and walnut.
oldesertguy AMEN!! I agree 110%, perhaps 200%! Black plastic is ugly, but the light brown, desert/Poop camouflage is even worse...unless one is in the desert, of course! I saw one of these for sale in Canada & I believe that the price was north of 5K-but I could be remembering incorrectly.
@@tommykirk3403 if you’re carrying your rifle around SO MUCH that its weight is an issue...I don’t know. Have you ever picked up a Lee Enfield or an M1 Garand? I’m proving YOUR...observation-you’re quite right, plastic is lighter than wood. It’s a subjective topic: I find a Walnut/Birch/Laminate stock more visually appealing and because I only shoot from a table, a heavy rifle is easier for me to use. Your situation and personal tastes are, (none of my business), & 110% as valid as mine. I think it’s safe to assume you’re not military so you must put in a lot of hunting hours? You want a lighter rifle than every one that’s in my safe, except for my grandpa’s Model 1894...which has provided many meals in its time. You’re right, wood is heavier than plastic, usually much stronger and so much nicer to look at, (in MY opinion). I DO NOT EXPECT YOU TO SUDDENLY AGREE with me. I respect your preference for "composite", (aka plastic), stocks. I just don’t share it.
@@frufru0071 wood is cooler than plastic. So much so, that even some active soldiers in my time preferred G3s with wooden stocks an guards over the more modern, plastic successors.
I was one of those willing to carry the extra hundreds of grams 😉
I love that you put so much historical background into your videos. You paint a vivid picture of the people and circumstances that produced these weapons. Fascinating stuff.
Ian does a video on a German training rifle and manages to include it as a French training rifle! Well played, sir, well played!
also how bad ass would this be for blitzkrieg on squirrel
Best comment ever
I have a K98k yet I would love one in 22 as it would be a lot cheaper to shoot.
Norinco JW25.
It's basically a CZ 455 (magazine fed 5rd. .22lr) in a Kar98k replica stock. Cheap, looks great and shoots great.
Bright Pornchaser good places to get one?
@@blank-dr9df
If you're in the US, no idea - at least not with new ones. It's tough with all their sanctions, bans and import restrictions going on. Maybe a used one from a while back? But I can imagine that they're quite rare.
Outside US of A, if your government is more China friendly, they're not that hard to come by, 'cause they're still in production from all I know.
@@ThisGuy.... ...no reloading?
If you do some shopping around, there are .22 conversion kits for K98k's. Basically a .22 barrel insert, a replacement floorplate with a .22 mag well, and a .22 bolt. I see them come up fairly often on Gunbroker, just be prepared to pay a lot for one. Most of the kits I've seen go for around $900-$1200, so it will take a fair bit of shooting to make your money back.
As always Ian, straight from the top drawer, keep them coming please. Thanks for sharing.
Never fails to have an interesting subject this channel, great stuff.
This has got to be one of the nicest looking .22lr I’ve ever seen. Thanks very much for sharing-yet another-fantastic video.
"What souvenirs that came back by geography and why." Would be an awesome video.
Dude, hell yeah. Let's see who's granddad was the best at looting!
@@camelthegamer7165 I have a Walther PP that my grandfather brought bacK. He was from Savannah, GA
That would be awesome
I dunno, what it was in the west, but on eastern front - ration chocolade (one with the amph) was among the most valuable trophies. Right after the boots.
Really interesting background. Thanks Ian.
I would love seeing a video of yours about guns that brought back from WW2 (and other wars?) from different areas of occupation. I'm usually into the mechanics of guns, I love seeing the various systems but this ought be a very interesting topic.
Büchse means rifle. So "Caliber .22 long for rifles" aka ".22 long rifle"
cool to know they only made about 5500 of them. My Walther KKW is 5081..so if the serials were indeed sequential, its pretty close to the one in the video, being 4998. Thanks for this video, Ian! Always wanted to know a little more about these, i got it as a pair with a '42 Mauser.
Fantastic video as always Ian!
A shame that history must be blurred out. Soon we'll forget it ever happened and soon after we'll repeat it.
TH-cam will demonetize the video if I don't blur it. Complain to them, not me.
Dear Ian, in 1943/44 my grandfather was at a fair in Germany and there was a Wehrmacht sponsored attraction where you could shoot an MG42 with "blue bullets" according to my grandfather. Do you know anything more about this - unfortunately I don't have a chance to ask my grandfather, since he passed away years ago, but do you think it was an actual MG42 or a version, that was a tweaked design for civilian usage like the KKW?
Thank you for your time and all those fantastic informative videos you provide us with.
Steiner Arts idk of you got this answer but if you watch a video from British Pathè they show the fair you are talking about and the “Blue ammo” was the colour of the label or just a wide line of blue on box that held the rounds. Dummy rounds were red tipped that was just wood so he probably shot actual rounds, just the packaging had blue on it.
They were probably wooden practice bullets for use in short ranges. Full-power military ammunition would require a full-sized military rifle range.
@Steiner Arts nice
The three guys who share a cleaning rod: "What could be more embarrassing?"
Two french scouts in a kayak: "Fix rifles for aquatic terrain locomotion!"
One American: "Y'all are so dumb" and proceeds to file something down inside of his rifle.
"Baka" Says the Japanese soldier, adjusting the anti-aircraft sights on his rifle.
@@kategrant2728 Good one.
I think the French "touching rifle tips" that Ian just covered is a bit more embarrassing.
Someone please tell me the origin of the American one :)
@@nicholaspatton5590 i need that too
Beautiful prewar quality, bet that shoots well .
Pretty.
Thx for the vid 👍
9:48 - this could be difficault at the end of the war
Two years ago I attended a Kleinkaliber-shooting course at my university here in vienna (austria) and one of the rifles we had available was one of these.
But it had quite some work done on it so that required each round to be put in the chamber manually and the sights were exchanged for diopter sights to better fit the whole point of „professional“ target shooting.
When I used it it was just a weird rifle amongst a bunch of others that better fit the whole .22 target-shooting pattern, but now that I know the history behind it, it definitely is much cooler than it was.
But I still wouldn’t choose it if I would go target shooting there again - it’s barrel was exactly like you would imagine the original barrel of a much used 80 year old gun to be and so it was rather inaccurate.
I saw the title and immediately thought really weird things involving the movie Hard Target and similars.
Leave it to Ian to do an episode on a German 22 and bring the conversation around to the French.
Great Job Ian! Excited for book!(Signature addition)
“Edition “ ? 💉🇩🇪
Mr Diplomat yes
Ian - issued cleaning rod for KKW was different than K98K (smaller bore diameter on .22 than 7.9) and slings were different as well, but they did take the K98 sling.
First, Ian, let me say that I watch all of your videos and really enjoy them. I'm a retired law enforcement firearms instructor and have always been keenly interested in firearms, ever since I was a youngster. Over twenty years ago, I bought an MAS Model 45. I bought it and ten five round magazines used, in like new condition, for $100. The MAS doesn't have a high quality blued finish or high grade wood stock but it is a very nice Mauser action .22 rifle. I've always found it to be very accurate and reliable. I'm shocked at the prices that these rifles fetch in today's market.
Love Forgotten Weapons because it does much more than just talk about the weapons... It's also the why, who and the when that put the weapons into perspective.
Tempting, this one is hard to resist bidding on and I do love .22's
And, eventually picked up by Norinco as the JW25 - which is also a nice little rifle.
Your bring-back theory makes sense. My father-in-law was from SD/MN and brought back a Mauser ES340 .22 as apposed to an 8mm Mauser rifle.
A good .22 is a valuable tool for anybody who lives in a rural area, regardless of their financial situation.
I have a Polish Nagant training rifle in 22lr. Its single shot only. Accuracy is incredible!!
The fact that the WZ48 exists always amused me. I understand, Communist Poland, but a completely unrelated action on a pseudo Mosin stock? One wonders what's the story behind it.
I really enjoy these history-centered videos.
My Dad brought one back but without the stock, he made a stock for it and I still have it today. This one is marked Fluss-Stahl Krupp-Essen Mod W625B, The rifle still works fine and is accurate.
Silly Ian, you missed the second locking lug on the other side of the locking collar. Still, cool stuff that mirrors the reason why I still love my CZ 452 Ultra Lux. It's a nice .22 rifle that mimics much of the handling of a Mauser type sporter. I still consider it a shame that even the largely similar model 455 was discontinued in favor of the cheaper, shorter action model 457. One of things that was nice about the 452 and 455 was the longer bolt stroke which made it feel more like a 'real rifle' and arguably more comfortable for a reasonably sized adult to use vs. the tiny stroke of most bolt action .22s.
I would love to get that video about what soldiers were more likely to bring back as souvenirs based on where they were stationed and where they lived in the US.
Identical for which i assume helped train younger shooters to make military training easier/faster
Shhhh. Don't let ze french know.
Oddly, German rifleman accuracy standards were always more generous than British or US, also G98k was generaly less accurate than Enfield and Springfield.
Thank You , Ian .
10/10 Would love a video on the souvenir rifles.
Got a tu 33/40 recently thats basically this but with a detachable mag. I quite like the thing
Interesting history and that rifle it's in a very good cndition; the interview with Nicole Wiley was also very informative and interesting IMO.
There's also an air rifle copy of the Mauser army rifle, made by Diana for training purposes.
The souvenir guns video sound pretty interesting.
I have a Gustloff built trainer here in the U.S. and love it. It's as accurate as any other .22 i've put it against. Sadly, the original stock was gone when we acquired it in the 70's so I currently have it bedded in an M44 stock which works very well. I've only seen one other in all the years and it was selling for $900 USD in 2016
Are you going to look at the Carcano Youth rifle, should you get the chance? Would be interesting to do an evolution from pre war to late war designs.
I can't even begin to fathom this mans knowledge of firearms and I'm an armourer.......
Neato, what are the odds of this video coming up today when I have one arriving later today! Should be up on my site for sale soon, just not before I get to shoot it some. :)
Hate to bring this up Ian, but, where is the link to your review on the book by Bob Simpson?
Ian I can’t overstate how much I love the captions you do, but for this video the options are Korean or nothing which is a little odd 😂
At time 5:03 look at the front sight. Looks like it is drifted out to the left. Could be due to rough handling or there is something wrong with the barrel bore's alignment requiring drifting it over to sight the gun in.
I have years ago seen a training rifle of that general type so they were around in the USA.
Had a k98 in 22. But with a detachable 5 shot mag
Robert Simpsons book on this subject is a most excellent resource and a great read.
Want to be a real german? Take a sip from your beer everytime Ian says 'same'
Don't forget the Schnapps 🙂
And of course the "Struuudel"..... 😁
(Sorry, but I had to do this classic "Sergeant Schultz" saying 👍😂😂😂)
NORINCO made a copy of this KKW rifle labeled as the JW-15 and came with a detachable 5- rounds of .22LR ammo.
The magazine is hard to come by but NORINCO owners said that the magazine from a .22LR CZ-452 rifle also works with this.
Accuracy of the NORINCO was surprisingly very good.
Price was about $180+_ 5-five years ago.
If this NORINCO rifle was included in the importation ban to the USA, ' am not sure..
I wish they would put those back into production. That would be a cool little plinker for anyones collection
China's company, NORINCO made an exact copy of these and with a removeable 5-shot magazine.
Price was about US$125..give or take.
It is doubtful if this will be available in the US.. courtesy of Trump's US-China trade row.
channel Gunsofftheworld recently uploaded a shooting video with one of these
Please Ian do a rev of Croatian VHS, and of CBRPS lefty AK conversion kit...
You wouldn't happen to know a place one could source parts for one. I have one missing it's sear and a trigger guard screw
Did you check numerich?
I actually have one, the guy that had it died. I bought it from his daughter for 50 Euro. It shoots even better than it looks, I love it. The stories I heard here in Germany differ slightly from yours Ian. Great channel Ian love your content👍
I have several pre war mauser commercial 22 rifles ES350B ES350 mm410B etc . Very high quality and still very accurate. I adore and prize them. Beautiful and very functional.
I got 2 of those
One from Walther and one from Gustloff
How do they compare?
Your gay uncles are so cool!
(Kidding! It's just a joke.)
@@Kikker861 the walther one has a different type of bolt, like a miniature g98 bolt with the claw and all, but this one causes misfires, we don't know why really, we tried stuff and it didn't work it out.
The gustloff one is indentical with the one Ian showed, it was sporterized but we reworked the stock.
They both work quit well honestly, but i prefere my N°9 .22lr Lee Enfield
@@le47emechromosome39 It's interesting that they aren't so reliable considering that they're based on a bolt-action some would swear by.
@@Kikker861 and the one that doesn't quit work is realy a mini version of the g98 bolt, has little in commun with to one shown in the video
6:29 „Kaliber 22 lang für Büchsen“ actually means ”caliber 22 long for rifles“ because Büchse is the specific Term for a Gewehr with a rifled barrel.
What Gewehr then?
Rifle-no fucks?
Gewehr is the german "general term" for a gun that is not a handgun. (Pistols, Revolvers)
There are two kinds of "Gewehre" . The shotgun is called a "Schrotflinte" or simply "Flinte" and a rifle ist called a "Büchse".
A gun with both, a smoothbore and a rifled barrel will be called "Büchsflinte"....
(No, I'm not kidding you... that's the plain truth in german language ) 👍😁
I ve seen a norinco Jw short barrel rifle copy of this thing. Very neat but discontinued a few years ago.
still available in Australia via the importer who has the JW distribution, retail is about $500aud
@@dannyryan1206 That s really cool. price is a bit high but I guess gun law in Aus is pretty tight.
Pistole 08 from Georg Luger and Hugo Borchardt was a good thing to own for a soldier , worth like gold after the WWII . Anyone want to have one of these . You already did a video of those !! :))
can you do a video on smith & wesson model 1 issue 1,2, and 3?
Good training.
Walther .22lr k98 mauser. Thats awesome.
I don't know when it happened but the Mauser KKW and thus the MAS-45 have removeable box magazines. The MAS-45 also has an aperture rear sight. Very good guns, I found a screaming deal at an estate auction for one, I just wish my eyesight was still good enough to shoot iron sights to their potential.
Please do a video about the trends of American souvenir taking.
Interesting how the bolt travel wasn't made the same as the service rifle, I mean mechanically it'd be pointless but to simulate the real deal could have been helpful for developing muscle memory, especially if they'd managed to make a magazine feed
It’d be really interesting to hear more about the different weapons GI’s brought back and the different rationales behind their choices. I think most people know about sporterized arisakas, and of course there are the more trophy items like officers pistols, but this is the first time I’ve heard of US soldiers bringing back 22.s to use as varmint guns. Very interesting.
It’d also be cool to learn more about what kind of weapons other countries’ soldiers liked to capture and use when their specific governments allowed it.
My dad brought back a Luger and some sort of Schuetzen rifle. He traded it off after a few years, probably because ammunition was hard to acquire and he wanted a Winchester Model 42 shotgun (baby Model 12 in .410). Both those guns are still in the family. Sadly I have no memories of the target rifle. He lived in Chicago at the time.
Yes!! I remember the Great Video Ian did with the Very very knowledgeable girl in a warehouse full of these rifles!!!!
Anyone interested in these should go back and watch it on his channel.
Ian probably put a link in the description.......?
Another .22 military training rifle!
Sorry for drooling.
its the SUV of rifles, all the look none of the power.
Until now my worst "didn't buy it" was an all original 1941 Johnson I could have picked up for $250 in the late seventies. Shortly after the Berlin wall came down my favorite gun shop had a case of these selling for $135 each. At the time that was more than I wanted to spend on a .22. Today, the empty, Nazi marked, case would bring more than that at auction. Shucks... and other comments.
How little has changed on small caliber shootong over the time...
Beautiful rifle. Will this be going to auction?
I have a Norinco JW25A that is a copy of CZ452 that is made to look like Walther KKW. Good rifle but it likes expensive ammo ;-)
Could you please do a review on a Springfield Model 87M US Training rifle (Gill Rifle/Gun). Tks..!!
Please follow up with a video about what weapons were looted by GIs.
They looted everything that was not poured in concrete and weighing below 5-tons..
I love that I always learn something about something other than guns in these videos, it always combines my love of history and my childish delight in guns. Just to be clear I'm not saying liking guns is childish, I'm just saying my love for guns has a child like enthusiasm (I was told off by a mate whilst writing this :( )
I only like guns because of video games but I love learning about the mechanisms and behind the scenes stuff so Forgotten Weapons immediately won me over.
@Llama Bing I know, what you mean, mate and I agree. I'm a military historian, an ammo-collector and a shooter in several gun clubs.
So, don' t worry, you' re not alone..... 👍👍👍😁😁
Forgotten Weapons: Guns I never knew existed, but now want to buy
The truth!
I own a very good reproduction of this rifle, made by NORINCO. The appeareance of the rifle and the boltaction is 1:1 and it's chambered in .22lr as well.
The only difference to the genuine one is the detachable eight rounds box-magazine.
Thanks for all the great videos! Do you know why most of the German k98's are missing their cleaning rod?
Nathan from Phoenix Arizona
You need to remove them for fixing bayonets. So I assume most of them got lost somwhere in the field.
@@Wallynuzz All due respect, all German k98 bayonets have a hole to receive the cleaning rod and do not need to be removed prior to mounting
@@My12521252 Never saw that before. Which models have these?
@@Wallynuzz not sure.. I shouldn't say all but I do have 3 German k98 bayonets that are stamped 1943 that have a hole to receive the cleaning rod and any German k98 bayonets that I have seen have the same hole
Looking at the similarities between the two rifles, I have a feeling that the KKW was built on K98 stocks. The K98 disassembly disk on the KKW, its a time and money waste. The use of 2nd choice and reject stocks and excess K98 parts of superseded models that would be trashed would drive the production costs down.
I think the disc was more of a "it's a replica" reasoning then simply because trash stocks getting salvaged. I don't know but I think that disc would be one of the last pieces to add to a K98k before it's done so any reject stocks would've been sorted out before the disc was added.
Again, I do not know the process they used to make the K98k, it's just what I though of when I saw the thing.
The Idea was to produce a high quality training - target rifle to sell. It was to be a thing of pride of ownership .
@@fg42t2 I would be with you if the wooden stock could have a K98 action tossed into it, but the receiver area would need additional machining.
Also, to add, Haenel built circus guns (magazine fed bolt action 4.4mm air rifles) and during the Nazi reign they built K98-lookalike's to be used by HJ.
This to familiarize German children with the concept of the K98 in preparation for future military service, reason being that even in the 30's with the apparent advent of the automatic battle and assault rifles entering service, Hitler still believed that K98 was all they needed.
I have a Chinese Norinco copy of the KKW.
Imagine a government program designed to get people together for shooting sports, even a program that goes as far as to set pricing limits on the very nice rifles so that basically anyone can afford to get in on the sport.
I think I might have run into one of the Walther's at a gun store last year! I even took pictures of it....shit I need to go back and look at that....
I shoot a late production MAS-45, and it's my favorite rifle by a mile. In good light, with good ammo, a decent shooter can consistently group inside a nickel at 50 yards. I'm almost as accurate with this rifle as with a scoped CZ-452. It feels so much nicer than the CZ, at least to me. The only real weaknesses are a piss poor ejector, and an exposed front sight that's easily damaged (I don't have the factory sight hood).
Anyone who knows where I can get original front sight blades and/or a sight hood, please let me know!
I had one of these my German grandfather gave me. I sold it year's ago for 350usd. Buddy recently sold.it again for 1500!!! Kicking myself in the butt now!
Omg my neighbor has one of those and I was wondering what it was
why did you not use the big magazine for the kar98k in WWll
Not a big deal but the straight up position of the safety is safe but the bolt can move
As in... Disassembly?
I bought the Simpson Book after seeing the F W review. It is the single finest firearms book EVER written (and I have 700). Buy it if you have any interest in these firearms!