Adventures in Surplus: Mid-war "CE44" German Kar 98k
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Today's rifle is a German Karabiner 98k, made by JP Sauer in 1944 and marked with the appropriate receiver code, "ce". This is from the final year of JP Sauer production of the K98k, before they transitioned to making the MP44 instead. It gives us a chance to look at how production standards changed over the course of the war, and see a fine example of what German soldiers were being issued as their eventual defeat became inevitable.
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Next episode: Ian goes to Egypt to find the lost cache of spitfires and rips a Hispano from its mountings with nothing but his bare hands.
*bare hands and his Universal Disassembly Tool
there in Burma
Perhaps he could pop off to Greenland and dig out the other P38s, then make a video explaining why the USAAF didn't use the 20mm Hispano in more aircraft.
... cache of spitfires ? Tell me more !!
@@remko1238 Egypt used Spitfires in the 1940s
As for a cache... idk
I really like this series - seeing pretty common rifles but being given the Ian Treatment(tm) of the history and what everything means is actually pretty cool.
Needs a new youtube channel called Common Weapons.
I agree! Adventures in surplus should be a continued thing!
Me too. I'd love a series of "Adventures in Gun Stores" where Ian visits a local store/cabelas and spares a brief moment for oddities he finds there. Kinda like LGR Thrifts.
@@somethingodd1 then we could have weapons we vish we could forget.
Or install WinCompose and type (one after the other, not together): (you can remap it, I have it on the Menu key), t, m.
Vintage rifles are always a joy to watch and learn about.
Its beautiful.
A real treat, no question!
I bought my first vintage rifle a feq months ago and i have to say theres nothing thats cooler than steel and wood... my wallet has not been happy
Please finish this little "Adventures in Surplus" series by showing us how these several incidental acquisitions perform as shooters. If they function well with no problems, if they represent typical accuracy for their type, how prohibitive is the ammo, etc.
Agreed. I would love to see that.
What would be the process one would undertake to go from buying surplus to verifying it is safe to shoot and then actually shooting it at the range? That sounds like both a really good ForgottenWeapons video as well as a C&Arsenal video
@@NJP695 Good one! Logical next step. If Ian's got the time, in connection with this batch he should do that.
He may simply log them into his C&R log book and flog them off without even unpacking them. He didn’t seem too interested in at least 2 of them.
If the date of the auction that nailed him the rifles is any clue, he probably have _already_ shot with the four guns (not just the 98k he originally chased) as we speak. Heck (🐍), I'm not going to be surprised if he's already _editing it_ rn.
When I was a teenager I would stroll the aisle of the army surplus store near me and there would be dozens of various makes of surplus rifles on the floor racks..
The price varied from $30.00 or so for a fair condition rifle all the way up to a hundred or so for a decent shooter with a pristine bore.
Those were the days!
Hopefully this series keep going with cool guns from yours and Karl's collections.
6666 yuh 6inches 666
cool insight into the beginnings of the end of German military production, seeing the combo of cheap and advanced parts in the one product. You are going to have to do more auctions Ian, theres only 1 gun left in the current lot, we will need more! Adventures in Surplus must continue!
For sure! I am really loving this series!
The marks on the barrel are chatter marks from driving the cutting tool too fast into the material. This causes vibrations on the lathe which cause these marks. If you limit the driving speed of the cutting tool you don't need to remove them afterwards, but they simply didn't care back then because this is only a minor flaw. They had to put out as many barrels as possible in a short time.
Imagine being a worker there going from "There might be a war." to, "We have the superior army." and then finally, "WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE THE SOVIETS AND AMERICANS ARE COMING!"
Some of them are horrendous were these slave labor?
Thanks Ian, havin’ a bit of a rough patch and your videos usually help
i wish you the best, hope you get through, actually i am pretty sure you will.
:)
Wish you all the best man. Head up, move forward and keeping looking for the things that make you happy. You can do it :)
Hope you feel better man. everything eventually passes, and if you're struggling with quarantine, I've been finding that sitting outside has been helping me.
if there is anyone who can relate to a rough patch it should be a Troubled Badger
Best of luck man! Rough times make strong men! 💪 😊
Never go Full Kriegsmodell.
What happens in Kriegsmodell, stays in Kriegsmodell.
kyle Clark Hilarious! "Simple Jack"...on the attack! "NEVER GO Full__*3Ta*d, Jack!"
DKoK says “Haha shovel go brrr”
Learned more about the markings; always nice, especially with Mausers.
Very informative, I recently purchased a K98 that has a DWM manufacturing date of 1916 but was modified to a K98K with the shorter barrel and WW2 stamping. I have been looking for any information on this guns history and will look to purchase the books you mentioned. Thanks again for the great videos.
that would be a transition period rifle from ww1 to ww2 , alot of ww1 rifles that were left were modified to be k98 by the nazis during hitler's rise to power
Voice Of Reason thank you for the reply and the information.
Ian has a video here on the evolution of the K98
Ian, I think you got a hell of a deal on that lot of rifles. This one alone seems to be an all-matching vet bring back, so that adds a premium. I love it!
So I returned to work this week, in my country we've managed to have no COVID cases in a few weeks so things are starting to open up. As I went through my day I found myself staring out the window, remembering the weeks of freedom I had to go for walks and exercise whenever i liked.
And my boss turns to me and says "Riker, you look sad. are you sad for all the people who have died?" and I say no boss, I am sad because I thought of what Ian would look like without a beard.
Horrors!
😲
I would like Ian to post a picture of him beardless. :)
Ian, please keep this series going. I like seeing individual examples of common talked about.
Really dig this series, it is pretty crazy to think about the numbers and history, quarter million of these in one factory in one year, all of them with a story.
Always like the videos that go more into the life of the weapon and how you can show where its placed within a moment in history. As highlighted by the stamped and welded parts on this gun or the chromed parts from the previous video.
I'm honestly impressed by the fact that this kind of high quality content is uploaded everyday!
It appears the somewhat less desirable rifles in the auction lot are much more valuable than first thought. I think all collectors have purchased something somewhat blindly and then after researching their find, discover they made a good buy and sometimes not so good. "Even a blind squirrel finds a nut" but this is not to say Ian is a blind squirrel which is quite the contrary. If Ian ever has a gun show table, I would like to be there first. :-)
In some ways they may actually be more interesting that the gun that Ian was seeking. Maybe it's the surprise of finding out what they are or that they are not as historically significant so they are less known. I kind of like the Argentine rifle just for something different. I guess we'll find out what the last one is tomorrow.
You'd be right. The first real surplus gun i bought was a No.4 Mk1 Enfield. It looked in good shape and i thought it was cool, but i didnt know anything about it. Got it, took it home, did about 10 minutes of research to find out i have a matching 1942 Long Branch* that still shoots 1 MOA and has armory paint on the stock. $500 out the door with taxes.
I’m very fond of this style of video you’ve been putting out lately. Taking a look at a generic surplus rifle off the rack in relatively common circulation and diving into that particular rifles history. Would love to see more content like this in the future.
I always gotta remind myself how good we have it with TH-camrs like Ian. Back when I was growing up the only program on firearms period was tales from the gun on history
That show was the shit. I’ve still got my DVD box set.
Excellent as usual. Amazing that it continued alongside 44 production.
Over 500 rifles per day coming out of one factory. And not a real military factory at that. Crazy numbers.
We need this as a regular series, Ian! 🙏🙏🙏🙏
*ADVENTURES IN SURPLUS! WITH GUN JESUS*
In colour!
Great video, please keep finding interesting weapons like this. A simple trick to reduce your background shadow (assuming you have space) is to come forward, further away from the white wall background.
An interesting note - The reason why the rifles use "script" letters has to do with German nationalism. The script in question is known as Fraktur and is known occasionally as the "German alphabet" despite being a Latin typeface. According to Wikipedia, it was originally represented as the true German script by the Nazi government, and while in practice it was replaced with more readable fonts it remained in use in decorative contexts such as letterheads and, presumably, rifle manufacture markings through the war.
It's used now to represent some stuff in category theory which is where I'm familiar with it. Not often mathematical expertise overlaps with gun history, but hey.
I am GREATLY enjoying this miniseries. I like the deep dives on seemingly common small arms
I love a channel whose videos you can like as they start and never have to retract.
I'l love to see more videos in this format.
This stuff is fascinating. I'm not sure why. I guess it's just an amazing glimpse into parts of history that never occurred to me before. I hope you never run out of content! :-)
Nice new format, Ian! Stay with it!
More interesting adventures in surplus. Enjoying the series. Thanks.
I have to say, I am really enjoying your Adventures in Surplus. Greetings from just north of you in Phoenix. Once this pandemic mess is over I will have to try and come say hi to you and Carl at one of your matches.
Please do a video about my 1938 Turkish mauser, this 50 dollar masterpiece must have a story to tell! Nice series!
Hopefully, we will see some range time with these rifles. I'd love to see Ian shooting these lesser rifles.
I'm finding this Adventures in Surplus series exceptionally interesting and useful. I hope that, with the continued generosity of Rock Island and your Patreon supporters, you'll be able to continue the series with future auctions.
In the grand TH-cam Venn diagram, I'm sure there isn't much overlap in viewersbetween Forgotten Weapons and the Technical Difficulties on Matt and Tom's channel, BUT 'Adventures in Surplus' would scan really well onto their 'Mystery Biscuits' jingle.
I'm part of the overlap and support this idea. Now I'm a little sad that "Citation needed" is no longer a thing . . .
@@WIRRUZZZ My wife and I really enjoy the 'Two of These People Are Lying' format... Call My Bluff for the Wikipedia age.
a "minefield of rabbit holes" is going to be my new favorite thing to say.
Excellent video! ^_^
My kar98 is my first gun I ever had, and I still take it out for a little target practice once in a while.
I've got myself one of these rifles. It's been sporterized. I show it off on my channel all the time.
Why can’t I find amazing guns like this?
Because you were too slow to pick one up
There's only one Gun Jesus
You can find them at Rock Island Auctions
There will be lots of generic guns not fancy enough for individual sale. You'll get all kinds of guns that might even be common enough to use as a shooter.
Looking in the wrong places
Around 15 years ago l picked up a 98k produced by Czechs in '45 from a local dealer for under $300 and l don't think it was ever issued, it was so clean and loaded with Cosmoline. A regular at the sportsman's club where my old man was Range Master was impressed by what a 'straight shooter' it was. He let me play with an SMLE he had up there that day, l loved the action on that thing. When l got tired of the Mauser beating the shit out of my shoulder, my old man dumped it at a show in about five minutes for my $300.
I'm loving this series, hope you do it after the next rifle
Interesting that Sauer didn't manufacture the one most important part of the rifle.
Apple doesn’t manufacture the most important part of their iPhones - Samsung makes the processor chip.
David Thomas yeah but during a war you’d want the simplest and fastest way to produce war material but the Germans chose a quality over quantity for most of their equipment until it became just make anything to stop the Russians.
@@curiousentertainment3008 You want cheap quantity but you still need it to actually work. So you contract a company that can do quality to make the most important parts and then anyone with a workshop to make the rest of the gun.
@@alltat Do you know if Feima finished the receiver or just forged it or something in the middle? I think most AR-15 receivers are not actually forged by the manufacturer of the gun. I believe most manufacturers receive raw forgings and finish them.
@@Kleptophobia Apple doesn't actually 'make' anything, everything they sell is manufactured by contractors, Foxconn being one of the biggest. Apple is really just a design house...
I know you do research and prep for each video you do. However I am still impressed on the wealth of knowledge you have in your head. Thank you for providing it to us mire mortals. 😬
yesterday, Sig Sauer in Northern Germany announced that it is shutting down unfortunately
As in permanently?
@@Devin_Stromgren From what I saw, yes, permanently
@@Devin_Stromgren The German arm of Sig. It just wasnt making money in Germany because of gun laws. www.dw.com/en/sig-sauer-to-shutter-german-weapons-factory/a-53689378
Bugger, just went to look this up - looks like it was due to 'interference' affecting their ability to do business.
The U.S. SIG SAUER is doing well, especially with the U.S.military pistol contract.
Bro I am loving this series
Outstanding video and a beautiful 98K rifle
Speaking of Sauer: When do we get to see all the cool hunting rifles Sauer put out over the years: Sauer 80, Sauer 200, Sauer 202 Take Down and, of course, the Sauer Weatherby Mark V?
I love adventures in surplus. Makes me think it will keep going
excellent video great volume of info keep up the great content all the best from Scotland stay safe stay well
Thank you Ian for making this Adventures in Surplus series . I would like to see more of these videos. Please consider making more videos in this format , to include Swiss, Arisaka and Spanish, SKS rifles so on so on . Also a surplus pistol Adventures in Surplus. CZ pistols, Hi powers, Beretta , Polish pistols would be interesting. Lastly I hope you would consider a series with LEO pistols Glocks, S&W M&Ps, Sig Sauer. Thanks Eric B
I just wanted to chime in and say I'm really enjoying this series!
That in the darkest days of World War One and World War Two that Mausers could and were still coming off the line in great numbers in a safe and enduring state is why the Mauser is arguably the best military bolt-action design. It is not always the best shooter or the most comfortable to carry, but it is easy to make well, easy to use, works well, and doesn't wear out fast.
about 4 years ago, perusing the used guns at a local shop, noted a KAR 98, and bought it for 300 bucks. Must be a "bring back" as no impart marks. It is a 1944 gun, in great shape, matching number except for the bolt. Came with a sling and a bayonet with the same serial number as the scabbard. Had the duffle cut, so repaired it with two small brass pins and some careful glue, it is invisible. I reload for my military rifles, and shoot it a lot. It does shoot high, perhaps for long range accuracy. Mine did have the cleaning rod too. It completed my many year collection of vintage military firearms. I shoot all of them.
I'd buy that kar98 specifically because of the 4220, my birthday is 4-22 so it feels right. Love your channel Ian
You always upload at the perfect time Ian!
The Karem and Steves books are amazinf sources of info, I have IIa and IIb, even though they are pricey, if you're looking into buying or collecting a 98K there's so much you need to know. It's helped me do a lot of research on my numbers matching DOT 44 98K which turned out to be a partial Kriegsmodell gun (was never drilled for a cleaning rod in the stock but has the barrel bands & spring.
Just picked up a JP sauer & sohn. Mine is also a CE 44, all matching!! Mine used to be owned by a gunsmith and he put it in a new stock with a new sling. But didn’t put a bolt disassembly disc into the stock, but I am looking at having one added. Mine is also a war bring back as there is no import marks. And it’s still blued. Whether that’s because the previous owner reblued it or if its blueing stayed intact throughout the years idk. I’ve shot it quite a bit and it functions fantastically
Fantastic. Thanks for the info Ian
I really like this series!
Not even a gun owner. I just love this guy.
Amazing how much information you can get from just ap few marks
I’ll forever regret the day I was in a military surplus/pawn shop and they had 50 gallon drums full of K98’s, M1 Gerands, Springfields, M1A1 carbines and a lots of other older weapons all covered in grease and oil and selling for about $50 a gun. I wasn’t into collecting old weapons at the time so I figured the huge surplus meant the guns weren’t rare so I didn’t pay much attention to them and I figured I’d get a second chance. Boy was a wrong lol. A came back a week later and thinking I’d buy one and try restoring it since they were so cheap and other than the oil they seemed to be in good condition so why not grab one. Of course they were all gone. Turns out the grandfather of the stores owner had collected a ton of them over the years and would restore them and sell them on the side. The grandfather had died and the grandson was just trying to get rid of them as soon as possible because he didn’t want to spend the time cleaning them up so he was selling them for anything people would offer. This was the very early 2000’s, before I really used the internet so I didn’t think to try and find out how much they were worth, it was before people got used to quickly googling things so even if I wanted to find out how collectible they were at the time the information may not have even been on the internet yet or at least not been easy to find.
I still don’t know why some of the guns had so much grease on them and if that was the way the way the governments stored the weapons after WWII or if the grandfather had stored them like that to keep from rusting.
Yep, they would pack them in cosmoline so they wouldn't rust. A shame, I bet some of those weapons were mint condition underneath and were an absolute steal!
WW1-the 50's/60's will always be my favorite ear of guns because there's so many experimental test guns and so many beautiful guns
This is seriously a great little series, you should keep it going with more of your personal milsurps.
I love adventures in surplus. LOVE it. If Ian could convince these auction houses to give him $2500 every auction that would be amazing. 1.7 million subs for 2500 worth of advertising. Good deal.
Took years to get my matching k98 and could not be happier
Yes! Please keep these videos coming. If you decide to do more, I invite you to take a look at my M1 Garand. It seems a bit unusual in wear and finish, but all indications are that it's a 'legit' rifle. It's a CMP rifle purchased by my grandfather and has had several modifications from factory - the obligatory new design op rod and the trigger group has been replaced but from there it gets odd. It has a shiny, almost lacquered finish instead of the usual matte. The action is a Springfield 42 but the barrel is a Winchester part. However, the markings on the barrel indicate that it's the original barrel. Likewise, the bolt appears to be the original part, but is a '39 or '40 part. Knowing that the rifles were essentially built by grabbing parts out of bins on the assembly line, it seems to me that when it was assembled some of the bins were getting pretty low.Anyway, let me know if you're interested.
Thanks for showing your Mid-war CE44 German Kar 98k , Gun Jesus !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
To the left of the H on the butt there looks like a faint eagle mark.
Thanks for the in-depth look at these individual guns.
Hey Ivegot a 1943 late war Sauer & Sohn Mauser. It's a beautiful gun. Good shape, shooter / collector grade.
I've got a '38 JP Sauer k98 with the S/147 factory code. Cool to see a later one from the same company
Thank you , Ian , a very interesting upload ,
I am REDACTED McCollum
Thank you Ian- since I can't financially afford to 'mint' collect I've learned to enjoy the story of a used firearm. Rock Islands group buys are great but from Canada way to expensive. More of the same please.
Looks like you really got some great rifles in that lot.
I love all videos about K98's because that is the first firearm I bought.
Awesome video, love the series!
Based on the patina of both the trigger guard and the magazine floor plate, I would venture to guess the latter was replaced not long after initial production. Of course this can’t be proven, but I don’t think it would be unreasonable to suspect it was done during the war or shortly thereafter. Either way, still a great example of a late-war K98. I hope you enjoy it, Ian!
Makes me wish I snagged a specific Mosin when they were available in crates. One of the guys in the shop had a hobby of keeping track of stamp/marking on Mosins. From what we could piece together, It was a 39? (just pre ww2 may have the date wrong) Izmash production. It had a German capture mark, (crossed out) a Finnish capture mark (marked out) and another we were guessing Russian mark? on it. We couldn't recognize it. Sadly I couldn't afford to pick it up. :( I hope someone who has a good appreciation of history got it and tracked down it's whole story.
Interesting that the floor plate matches the finish on the rest of the gun pretty much exactly. Could possibly have been a wartime repair with a different last ditch rifle.
ਬਹੁਤ ਵਧੀਆ ਲੱਗੀ ਇਹ ਜਰਮਨੀਂ ਦੀ ਸ਼ਾਨਦਾਰ ਰਾਈਫਲ ਸਰ ਧੰਨਵਾਦ ਜੀ
Y'all know that "Jones BBQ and foot massage" video right?
I immediately had to think about that video when I saw the thumbnail. Idk why
The yellow and font I'd guess
Hopefully you do many more videos like this!
Loving this! Great to learn new stuff😎
Excellent video as always Ian.
Thinking of getting into the WWII era surplus rifles collecting sometime in the future but not particularly interested in German rifles. Could any of the fine members of the Forgotten Weapons community possibly make any recommendations if I were more interested in the Scandinavian countries. The two rounds I find most appealing are the 6.5x55 and the 7.62x54R. Thanks in advance.
I apologize for my stamping the serial number that was messed up. I was half asleep
I'm trying to find more details on "Feinmechanische Werke" and I'm finding almost no mention of that phrase in particular. The closest I'm finding is Erfurt Machaninfabrik, ERMA, who it seems did manufacture k98k's or parts. Can you share some info on the phrase you used?
Sauer&Sohn has no connections to SIG Sauer, it's a part of a company consisting of Blaser and Mauser Jagdwaffen.
Wrong. Sauer sold the part of the company to SIG in 1976, hence the name SIG Sauer.
@@mojoblues66 and in 2000, SIG Sauer sold the hunting weapons compartment to the Lüdke Group, so SIG Sauer produce small arms for military, police and sporting use, while Sauer & Sohn is another company that produce only hunting rifles and shotguns
Great Video, Impeto
Probably my favorite bolt action rifle.
the last missing eagle stamp is on the „pistolgrip“. It should be realy light but it is there :)
Could have been a field replacement, Ian. Lost during operation, so the armorer or just some Grenadier or Volksgrenadier just slapped that one in there and it was good enough.
Juhu noch eine Folge von Abenteuer im Überfluss
(Militär-)Restbestands-Abenteuer!
:^)
(I think "Überschuss" would be closer to "surplus"; "überflüssig" is more like "superfluous". Looking it up on Linguee, "military surplus" doesn't seem to have one universally established translation? I presume the Bundeswehr has an official term, but I wouldn't know it.)
@@nibblrrr7124 not sure if german or just gifted in languages 🧐
@@TheRitchway Nah, just German. ;)
Fluent in English, but my French has become _extremely_ rusty since high school. I've tried to learn a couple others, but never to the point where I could even hold small talk.
@@nibblrrr7124 yeah I know I find it funny to translate it badly😂😂
Actually Sig Sauer closed their production in germany and will go to the United States. Today it belongs to the L&O Holding (brands like Blaser, Sauer, Mauser, J.P. Sauer und Sohn, John Rigby & Co. and a whole lot of other companys e.g. textile industry and even a farm in Namibia)
So you probably can say, that your rifle and magazin plate today are under the same roof of one holding ;-)
p.s. I like your channel, gives me a lot of information. Thank you for your hard work.
Hello Mr McCollum, IMO it might also be interesting to add on whether you will be keeping or selling the rifle. Thanks!
Am seeing a lot of Kar 98k videos. If you like studying the two world wars, I recommend you watch this.
I always thought that the proof marks on left side of the receiver were for the stages of manufacturing and the final one if there is 3 was for the heat treatment hardness and the Wappan Amt on the left side by SN was for the fireing proof with over pressure test rounds. Correct me if you know different,
Just got my hands on an all matching CE41 Norwegian HV-Mauser in 30.06.