You should really test the vrs again! Its 10x better now. Its insane how much they have done with updates it may be top2 bases ever made now. The difference in detail and suspension feel is insanity. Just like vnm new 32nm wheelbase is a goat. Lol Will has an updated review on it and its just on another level now! I was so so impressed with this wheelbase. I love my simagic ultimate and the simucube pro2 but I think the vrs may edge them both out now. Idk how they did it but its shockingly good. I do find it funny how will acted as if fanatec was better then it in hus okd reviee yet you and others dissgreed so I cant imagine how much you wiuld love it now. The suspension feel and edge of grip feeling is otherwordly.
I'm really liking this series of DD wheels reviews. Only one comment from my side and that's about using 100% in game gain. This surely causes clipping and thus affects your perception of the FFB. However I guess that's just fine for sake of comparison
I just purchased one of these today (mainly because it’s the one I could afford) and I cannot wait for it to come. I’m moving from a CSL DD without the boost kit and decided to upgrade because of some very bad clicking I can feel in both my wheels when turning due to the shaft tolerances not being great, Fanatec said they won’t do anything about it and no home fixes have worked. I thought about a Simucube 2 Sport but I can’t find myself justifying the 50% increase in price. I hope my experience with VRS goes better than my one with Fanatec…
@@m.balauszko I'm used to the SC2 Pro from a friend of mine. We can't feel any big difference with the same settings :) I think when VRS implemented the additional filters than it would be very similar.
Personally I use a Small Mige OSW and I love it. I bought is for $825 so IMO very good price to performance. I know its "old tech" but its proven to work reliably. The only downside I have is that the fan on the OSW box is super loud. VRS has made a passively cooled system so mad props to them. IMO they just need to add more of the OSW filters / effects. As usual, great, unbiased review. Thanks Dan. Moin moin.
I got my VRS base a few weeks ago. I wanted the simple software and the open source nature of the motor and wheels. I added a Turn Racing button plate and their R20 wheel. It took me several weeks to decide which of the top three DD wheels would be a proper upgrade from the CS base. I wasn't to committed to the Fanatec system so that helped. And the startup costs of the SC was just to much for my use case. I think the only thing I gave up is the wireless connections but I expect there will be more wireless options later if I want to go that way. Don't know how anyone can run these DD wheels at 100%. I find that level of force distracting not to mention painful. Even though I wanted this simple software I am glad to hear there will be future upgrades.
@@fitnesschefen It's hard to find fault with it. It's plug and play and just works. The build quality is great and at my skill level I don't think I could need more. It's a part that will probably outlast me.
@@dlugsch My button plate is an older model. It is all aluminum and not the ABS enclosure listed today. Actually I think I am one of the last aluminum bodies before the product changed. I guess at the time I got real lucky because I also got updated paddles that had just become available. I don't know if the paddles I have changed with the ABS version. The paddles have been solid and I never give them a thought. To me the Turn button box is a steal and it is a joy to race with.
Hi Dan, im loving this little series you are doing. I currently own a dd1 and have just bought a cube controls formula wheel so I will see what the play is like with the podium hub but one thing you didn't show in this video is the shaft play like you did in the dd2 review, if you could show us all 3 compared to eachother im sure that would also help people make there choice :) thanks
Having done some extensive testing in different sims with different cars along with research on real car peak forces, I’ve come to the conclusion that FFB strength settings are completely dependant on each car / track combination, for example, at some tracks there are more g’s in high speed corners than others and some tracks have harsher kerbs and bumps than others. Taking GT3 as an example, I found that peak torque settings at the harshest tracks in GT3 cars are around 11nm (point at which clipping occurs in highest speed corners or over rough curbs). So if you have a 20nm wheel base set at 100%, you would set in game FFB at 55% (11nm/20nm*100). Alternatively you can leave in game at 100% and adjust to 55% in the firmware. Most sims allow custom profiles for each car, so in that case you could leave in game at 100%, firmware at 100% and adjust each car individually to 55% in game, 15nm wheel would be 73%, 25nm would be 44%, 30nm would be 37% (GT3). As we move up to GTE, DTM, LMP and Formula cars, peak torque values obviously increase due to higher forces in corners created by faster speeds and higher downforce of these cars, power steering only really affects slow corners and that can be compensated for by adjusting the low force reduction filters in some firmware such as Simucube. I have found the best way to find out peak torque levels in sims for any given vehicle is to set in game FFB to 100%, then lower your wheel software setting until you get clipping in high speed corners at tracks like Spa, you can then figure out how much % force is needed for that vehicle, if after setting said force you find it’s too strong in slow corners, use the filter in your firmware to reduce force at low speeds (this kind of replicates the effect of power assisted steering). Setting FFB strength in this way allows for max peak torque without clipping for any given vehicle track combination under normal race conditions, but avoids arm breaking forces when crashing because they will be automatically clipped above 11nm in the case of GT3 for example. Edit: most of the important information in GT3 cars occurs in the 3-7nm range, so you can still get decent feedback using a belt driven wheel such as TSPC Racer or CSL Elite, it’s only hard curb hits, off tracks, crashes and the highest speed corners where you will lose data due to clipping, but it’s only for milliseconds and probably won’t adversely affect car control. Hope you all find this useful!
I don't know which one to choose, I usually only use iracing. I currently have thrustmaster TX base servo. VRS DirectForce Pro or SC 2 Pro R2. I've been reading about both for 1 week. The difference in the price is 500 EUR (with accessories and shipping 1400 SC2 Pro vs 900 VRS). If you had the money, which would they buy? Thanks for your comments
i was hoping that you review this DD system and the VRS pedals and a few weeks later you are actually doing it. very informative video with very good prioritization of the different characteristics. good example are the limited configuration options. in a standard hardware testing websites/magazines.. that would autimatically lead to a worse result. but it can also be an advantage if you don't want to bother.. you made that pretty clear. thanks for the gread content!
I never felt even hand temperature on the top on the SC2 pro... it stayed always close to room temperature (even after hours of driving). Force settings around 10-12nm in regular turns (with peaks in crashes around 17nm).
Thanks Dan, not in the market at the moment, but one day and this info is really great! I've always thought that Fanatec was over priced, but like a lot of this, that is personal thoughts..
One thing I noticed was that steering wheels with USB plugs tend to cost a fair bit more than a Fanatec wheel does. You have a wider range of options available but they also go into costs higher than the wheelbase itself. As a VR driver I wanted something with a lot of buttons that were easy to find positionally to maximise what was on the wheel and other than Polsimer it was all surprisingly expensive. You can find wheels like the SRC within €250 but realistically a Fanatec Mclaren GT equivalent is €350 compared to €200. Once you account for the mount and the shaft connector you spend another €100 and I found the VRS was about €200 cheaper than the Fanatec DD1. So a lot of the advantage price wise gets eaten away.
Yeah, that was annoying to realize, I finally did go with VRS and converted my thrustamster Ferrari wheel using the SRC conversion, later I did get a fanatec v2 usb, that came upto $576 shipping and tax included. I couldnt find anything other than Polsimer around the price range, Its very misleading none of the reviewers actually talk more about this stuff, every reviewer will conveniently focus only on the base and ignore their very expensive boutique custom wheel. Simucube reviews are very misleading if they dont include the cost of wheels that go with them. You either have very expensive CubeControl/Ascher or budget-ish Fanantec/Thrustmaster converted wheels, or small unknown companies making wheels (the last category is really leap of faith, because at small scale people cannot provide the after-purchase service).
@@arn6376 Yup, I was very close to pulling the trigger on the Fanatec, 1 cable life, has lots of cheaper wheels, mostly plug and play. However their reliability horror stores are just crazy
Hey Dan, I run my VRS at 60% in the VRS software. In iRacing settings I have wheel force at 20nm. Are you saying to try 100% in VRS tool and 10nm in iRacing settings?
This is primarily for Simucube with iRacing but the idea probably works the same with VRS as well. This is from David Tucker, a developer at iRacing with a couple of additional details I have added. It's long but clear and accurate: Feb '20 Here is my description of the iRacing force feedback settings. First off, in an ideal world we would not need any of the FFB sliders in iRacing. We would just send the raw torque signal in Nm straight from the physics to the wheel and let the wheel itself handle it all. The wheel would still need a way to turn down the force levels, both to avoid saturating the output and for user comfort. We could treat that like a stereo with a volume knob and a clipping light. Most users would figure that out in a few minutes. The world is not ideal so we have sliders. In particular the api we use to communicate with the wheel takes a unit-less value that ranges from -100% to +100%, but our physics works in Newton meters of torque. The fix there is the max force slider (click on the word "Strength" to toggle the display to "Max Force" if you don’t see it already). That sets what torque value in physics will map to 100% when sending our signal on to the wheel. You want to set this max force value to be at least as strong as your wheels output (17 Nm for SIMCUBE 2 Sport), and in addition you want it to be higher than the peak force the car will produce in ‘normal’ driving. You can find that peak force via telemetry, or by watching the F meter in sim for clipping, or you can use the Auto button in sim to work out that force. Auto works by collecting data on your driving, and over time will work out to a reasonable level of what the peak torque the car produces. Auto is the button that shows up in the F9 black box next to the FFB Force adjustment in sim, and also next to the Max Force slider in the Options menu under the Force Feedback section, and won’t show up unless you have put in a clean lap in the car. Auto has a problem in that it can work out the max force the car produces, but it does not know what the max force is that your wheel can produce. If you have a Logitech G27 it hardly matters, that can only produce 2.5 Nm of torque so all cars will produce more torque than that. On the other hand if you have a SIMCUBE 2 Ultimate set to max in the (True Drive) driver you can produce 32 Nm of torque at the rim. Pair that with a car that has a light steering and auto may only see 10 Nm of peak torque from the car. That causes a real problem, if we set 10 Nm from the sim equal to 100% force at the wheel, you will feel 32 Nm of torque when the car asked for 10 Nm giving you 3x the force of the real car, or a serious assault on your hands! To correct this flaw we have the Wheel Force slider, that is where you tell us what your wheel produces so we can stop auto from setting Max Force below that value. If your wheel is set to 100% output (in True Drive) you just set this Wheel Force slider to whatever the torque is on your wheel base. If it is set to less than 100% output (in True Drive) you can do the math to work out the correct number (so a 32 Nm wheel set to 45% output is 32*0.45 or 14.4 Nm). All that is a minimum that gives you the most fidelity at the rim without producing an unrealistically strong force. You can (and probably should) turn it down from there (set Max Force even higher) especially if you have a really strong wheel. So basically, you have two choices here, you can turn things down in the wheel firmware or in iRacing (by increasing the Max Force nm level). The higher that Max Force Nm level in relation to the other settings, the lower the wheel strength. My recommendation is to set the wheel firmware to the strongest force level you want to experience, and then tweak the feel in iRacing if that still feels too strong while driving. However, if you ONLY turn things down in iRacing then in some extreme crash we may end up sending you a signal that still requests 100% wheel force and you don’t want any nasty surprises. On top of that you should always use linear mode with a strong DD wheel. When we started iRacing there were no strong wheels and non linear allowed the humble G25 wheel to feel more alive. However it is like using bass boost on a $5,000 stereo in this case, basically a bad idea. The same goes for Damping and Min Force in iRacing, those are there to fix issues with older wheels and should be left off. In summary 1. Set your Wheel Force to your wheel's highest output "that is comfortable/acceptable to you" in True Drive and match it in iRacing using the Wheel Force slider. 2. Use Auto to set Max Force initially (after running a couple of clean laps), then turn things down from there if it is too strong (by increasing Max Force Nm, moving the slider left, as it's an inverse relationship). ----- David In my experience I temporarily turn on the Simucube clipping sound notification in True Drive and then test iRacing by selecting the "Auto" option - under Max Force in the F9 black box ("Auto" appears after a couple of clean laps). This is done to see if the direct drive has clipping while driving clean laps after selecting "Auto." If I hear any clipping alerts (which might occur in heavy turns or over large bumps), I decrease the Max Force (thereby increasing the Max Force Nm) until I no longer hear the clipping alert sound when running the same clean lap again. If, after making this adjustment, the Force Feedback is too weak, I simply bump up the True Drive "Actual Maximum Torque" by 1 or 2 Nm (by increasing Overall Strength), then match that value in the iRacing Wheel Force setting, and repeat the same process previously mentioned. I keep repeating this step until the Force Feedback feels strong enough and also doesn't clip during clean laps. At that point (as I understand it) the iRacing Max Force setting is providing full fidelity for your chosen True Drive "Actual Maximum Torque" level under normal clean lap driving conditions (with the exception of crashes). In addition, crash forces will not exceed the maximum strength set in True Drive. In my case, if clipping occurs during crashes, I don't really care as I won't miss injuring my wrist or hands. Hope that helps and thanks so much to David Tucker for that thorough earlier explanation.
I think what Dan is saying is that if you set your wheel FFB to 100%, you are allowing access to the full power at peaks such as curb strikes and crashes. In other words you are allowing access to the full dynamic range without distortion. However, when the wheel is set this way, you will need to lower the FFB in game to ensure there is no clipping at those peaks. Think of it like a hifi amplifier and speakers, if you use a 200 watt amplifier and you get good sound pressure levels at say 9 o’clock on your volume level, when the music makes a peak, your amplifier has plenty of dynamic headroom to avoid distortion through the speakers when that peak occurs. But if you are only using say a 5 watt amplifier at 100 % volume, you have no headroom left when the music peaks and therefor you will get distortion, this is like having a lower force feedback wheel, you will have to reduce the volume level and therefor run lower FFB in wheel terms you won’t get the same sound pressure level without distortion. Think about the torque as the amplifiers power and the FFB scale as the volume, thinking about it, I can’t see a problem either setting it in game or via the provided software as long as you use the in game FFB meter to ensure the signal remains unclipped (undistorted) at peaks. Probably easier to do that in game whilst leaving the wheel at 100%, rather than keep coming out to adjust the manufacturers slider. However, they most likely advise setting it at 50% to avoid injury in case you go too far too early in game. Think of your wheel as your power amplifier and the in game slider as your volume setting, I’ve heard some very good quality low powered amplifiers in my time, but they don’t play very loud, same with wheels, just because it has high torque doesn’t necessarily mean it’s well engineered!
I run at 100% also and increase max force in iRacing for strength feel. I feel running at 100% I have more range than limiting the base to determine force. VRS recommends using the clipping tuning method but I found it felt to strong all over the range or too weak.
HI, just let u guys know. You can buy their control boards individually for $240 ,then 130ST AM10010 mige motor from Lisa, you can find her email from osw simucube diy video on youtube ,then RH050 Resistor and Mean well epp-400-48 PSU from ebay Ali whatever .And a case , u can 3d print it, or just do it u want , It only cost me like $530-$550 to build the wheel base , it depends on the tax and shiping where u live. This is without a doubt the best value for money for a high end wheel base.
When you say the FFB feels "raw" do you mean it is less interpolated? For Fanatec there is an interpolation filter, which, combined with the force effect intensity, makes a big difference in the amount of "noise" and feeling of microsteps.
There is something up with this base then, because i own the Simucube osw with the motor and even at 100% ffb there is zero heat coming from the motor or the part of the back so not sure why its hot.
Thank you for a nice review. I have SC 1 and thinking of upgrading to SC 2 Pro. Not really sure if the upgrade is worth it. You mentioned you felt the difference between these two. Could you maybe give some advice or anyone? Thank you.
hi! so when you say the FF is "rawer", you mean compared to the simucube or both the SC2 and fanatec? later in the video it seems you are comparing it to the SC2 but you are talking about it from the start and so far we only had the fanatec review before this one. thanks!
Good review! I am considering to purchase one vrs direct force pro myself and I quite agree about the concern on their shaft adapter... I just couldn't find any reseller to purchase the key in the buttonhole and a shaft to prevent the assembly from any slip. Do you know where the friends you mention in the clip bought their own?
Well vrs is better then it ever has been. So for the price it's hard to not consider. Its so good that I would say it matches the simucube and simagic wheelbase. If not slightly better in some ways it's insanity how big of s difference was made this past year. Its why even boosted media latest video is such a massive difference. Its like a compeltely different wheelbase. Its open source so you can use any wheelbase you want with it due to all needing to be plugged in anyways. This coming from a simagic ultimate owner and lover. I love my ultimate if you can swing it for the price go for it. But again for the price you cannot beat the vrs. Imo it deserves way more attention and has such an incredible feel. I think it has stronger details and has better suspension feel then all of the other wheelbases.
Dan, I don't want to sound like the 3000 guys that told you before but I saw your settings in iRacing with the SC2 (I happen to have that base) and they are comparable to mine. In ACC with 100% in SC2 software I struggle with 55% (and I am a strong dude as well). You should check your files because I understand you are a tank But there's no way you can sometimes lift one hand in a corner like you did in the video and keep running with 100% force.
Where do you live? This is the website: gomezsimindustries.com/ but there are also regional distributors (SimRaceShop for EU, Demon Tweaks for UK for example)
VRS has more torque, 20NM vs 15NM by Simagic Alpha, FFB detail shall on the same level, Simagic Alpha offers wireless wheel which powered by the base like Fanatec, the QR is just the best over all, but its price is 200€ over VRS.
@@samuelpastor2093 pulled the trigger with the simucube pro 2 😂 buy once cry once. More than happy! But between vrs and Simagic, I should go with VRS. I’m using the pedals and are amazing, good quality and performance 👍👍
I was seriously considering the VRS after watching your videos and great reviews, but what is really keeping me back is the fact that it is not just plug and play with all the sim titles.
I use a Sim-plicity mige with 8m encoder. I just payed 499Euro + Tax for it.... no problems all the time. I dont know why you guys buy this expensive stuff... its just a mige motor nothing more..
I don't understand this well You want to show something, and you say I don't do this or that, I can't talk about it !!! how can you test something properly if you don't use profiles
I like your presentation style. Casual and chill yet professional and insightful.
Just in time to have these done before the CSL DD, great timing.
CSL DD wont be anywhere near as good.
@@Simlife101 🤦♂️they no where near the same price range, so whats your point?
You should really test the vrs again! Its 10x better now. Its insane how much they have done with updates it may be top2 bases ever made now. The difference in detail and suspension feel is insanity. Just like vnm new 32nm wheelbase is a goat. Lol
Will has an updated review on it and its just on another level now! I was so so impressed with this wheelbase. I love my simagic ultimate and the simucube pro2 but I think the vrs may edge them both out now. Idk how they did it but its shockingly good.
I do find it funny how will acted as if fanatec was better then it in hus okd reviee yet you and others dissgreed so I cant imagine how much you wiuld love it now. The suspension feel and edge of grip feeling is otherwordly.
I'm really liking this series of DD wheels reviews. Only one comment from my side and that's about using 100% in game gain. This surely causes clipping and thus affects your perception of the FFB. However I guess that's just fine for sake of comparison
I just purchased one of these today (mainly because it’s the one I could afford) and I cannot wait for it to come. I’m moving from a CSL DD without the boost kit and decided to upgrade because of some very bad clicking I can feel in both my wheels when turning due to the shaft tolerances not being great, Fanatec said they won’t do anything about it and no home fixes have worked. I thought about a Simucube 2 Sport but I can’t find myself justifying the 50% increase in price. I hope my experience with VRS goes better than my one with Fanatec…
could you give an update on what the experience with the VRS has been. trying to decide on what i want to buy so would love to know
Any update with the VRS?
Following😊
"That's a lot of shaft" haha. Another great video, thanks Dan!
Who's the bad-ass part of the rig that's a hit with all the ladies?
dur dur dur dur dur
SHAFT!!!
I'm in the market for the DD so this series is exactly what I need! THX!!!
Can highly recommend the VRS :) I'm super happy with it since 6 Months and zero issues. Plug in and drive :)
@@maas7740 Thx Bro! Do you have any comparison with different DD bases?
@@m.balauszko I'm used to the SC2 Pro from a friend of mine. We can't feel any big difference with the same settings :) I think when VRS implemented the additional filters than it would be very similar.
@@maas7740 Awesome, thx!
fanatec has the CSL DD wheel coming out in a few months.
Personally I use a Small Mige OSW and I love it. I bought is for $825 so IMO very good price to performance. I know its "old tech" but its proven to work reliably. The only downside I have is that the fan on the OSW box is super loud. VRS has made a passively cooled system so mad props to them. IMO they just need to add more of the OSW filters / effects. As usual, great, unbiased review. Thanks Dan. Moin moin.
Replacing a fan should be rather easy though. So you may want to consider just doing that.
"Noctua " is your friend
I got my VRS base a few weeks ago. I wanted the simple software and the open source nature of the motor and wheels. I added a Turn Racing button plate and their R20 wheel. It took me several weeks to decide which of the top three DD wheels would be a proper upgrade from the CS base. I wasn't to committed to the Fanatec system so that helped. And the startup costs of the SC was just to much for my use case. I think the only thing I gave up is the wireless connections but I expect there will be more wireless options later if I want to go that way. Don't know how anyone can run these DD wheels at 100%. I find that level of force distracting not to mention painful. Even though I wanted this simple software I am glad to hear there will be future upgrades.
So how do you like the wheel so far? Thinking of buying, but also looking at the alpha
@@fitnesschefen It's hard to find fault with it. It's plug and play and just works. The build quality is great and at my skill level I don't think I could need more. It's a part that will probably outlast me.
@@keithmgray you are right, i bought it, and its freaking awesome, just works out of the box, im not gonna upgrade again
What are your thoughts on the turn button plate? Considering getting it but have heard the paddles aren't great
@@dlugsch My button plate is an older model. It is all aluminum and not the ABS enclosure listed today. Actually I think I am one of the last aluminum bodies before the product changed. I guess at the time I got real lucky because I also got updated paddles that had just become available. I don't know if the paddles I have changed with the ABS version. The paddles have been solid and I never give them a thought. To me the Turn button box is a steal and it is a joy to race with.
Hi Dan, im loving this little series you are doing. I currently own a dd1 and have just bought a cube controls formula wheel so I will see what the play is like with the podium hub but one thing you didn't show in this video is the shaft play like you did in the dd2 review, if you could show us all 3 compared to eachother im sure that would also help people make there choice :) thanks
4:20 - Honestly, I personally enjoy it. Sure, there is no eye-candy. But straight to the point is all I personally need.
Having done some extensive testing in different sims with different cars along with research on real car peak forces, I’ve come to the conclusion that FFB strength settings are completely dependant on each car / track combination, for example, at some tracks there are more g’s in high speed corners than others and some tracks have harsher kerbs and bumps than others.
Taking GT3 as an example, I found that peak torque settings at the harshest tracks in GT3 cars are around 11nm (point at which clipping occurs in highest speed corners or over rough curbs). So if you have a 20nm wheel base set at 100%, you would set in game FFB at 55% (11nm/20nm*100). Alternatively you can leave in game at 100% and adjust to 55% in the firmware. Most sims allow custom profiles for each car, so in that case you could leave in game at 100%, firmware at 100% and adjust each car individually to 55% in game, 15nm wheel would be 73%, 25nm would be 44%, 30nm would be 37% (GT3).
As we move up to GTE, DTM, LMP and Formula cars, peak torque values obviously increase due to higher forces in corners created by faster speeds and higher downforce of these cars, power steering only really affects slow corners and that can be compensated for by adjusting the low force reduction filters in some firmware such as Simucube.
I have found the best way to find out peak torque levels in sims for any given vehicle is to set in game FFB to 100%, then lower your wheel software setting until you get clipping in high speed corners at tracks like Spa, you can then figure out how much % force is needed for that vehicle, if after setting said force you find it’s too strong in slow corners, use the filter in your firmware to reduce force at low speeds (this kind of replicates the effect of power assisted steering).
Setting FFB strength in this way allows for max peak torque without clipping for any given vehicle track combination under normal race conditions, but avoids arm breaking forces when crashing because they will be automatically clipped above 11nm in the case of GT3 for example.
Edit: most of the important information in GT3 cars occurs in the 3-7nm range, so you can still get decent feedback using a belt driven wheel such as TSPC Racer or CSL Elite, it’s only hard curb hits, off tracks, crashes and the highest speed corners where you will lose data due to clipping, but it’s only for milliseconds and probably won’t adversely affect car control.
Hope you all find this useful!
Your information is more than correct!!
Which somewhat explains my hesitation between a ts-pc and a 10 nm dd to resume the simulation...
I don't know which one to choose, I usually only use iracing. I currently have thrustmaster TX base servo.
VRS DirectForce Pro or SC 2 Pro R2. I've been reading about both for 1 week. The difference in the price is 500 EUR (with accessories and shipping 1400 SC2 Pro vs 900 VRS). If you had the money, which would they buy?
Thanks for your comments
i was hoping that you review this DD system and the VRS pedals and a few weeks later you are actually doing it. very informative video with very good prioritization of the different characteristics. good example are the limited configuration options. in a standard hardware testing websites/magazines.. that would autimatically lead to a worse result. but it can also be an advantage if you don't want to bother.. you made that pretty clear. thanks for the gread content!
I dont have the wheelbase but the pedals are really good
I never felt even hand temperature on the top on the SC2 pro... it stayed always close to room temperature (even after hours of driving). Force settings around 10-12nm in regular turns (with peaks in crashes around 17nm).
Thanks Dan, not in the market at the moment, but one day and this info is really great! I've always thought that Fanatec was over priced, but like a lot of this, that is personal thoughts..
I went with the VRS. To me the price to performance is absolutely unmatched, it is over $400 less than any close competitor in the US
One thing I noticed was that steering wheels with USB plugs tend to cost a fair bit more than a Fanatec wheel does. You have a wider range of options available but they also go into costs higher than the wheelbase itself. As a VR driver I wanted something with a lot of buttons that were easy to find positionally to maximise what was on the wheel and other than Polsimer it was all surprisingly expensive. You can find wheels like the SRC within €250 but realistically a Fanatec Mclaren GT equivalent is €350 compared to €200. Once you account for the mount and the shaft connector you spend another €100 and I found the VRS was about €200 cheaper than the Fanatec DD1. So a lot of the advantage price wise gets eaten away.
check out a guy on fb... called kss wheels. makes nice stuff for a reasonable amount
That’s only for one use case scenario I think in general it would be quite a bit cheaper than a fanatec dd
Yeah, that was annoying to realize, I finally did go with VRS and converted my thrustamster Ferrari wheel using the SRC conversion, later I did get a fanatec v2 usb, that came upto $576 shipping and tax included. I couldnt find anything other than Polsimer around the price range, Its very misleading none of the reviewers actually talk more about this stuff, every reviewer will conveniently focus only on the base and ignore their very expensive boutique custom wheel.
Simucube reviews are very misleading if they dont include the cost of wheels that go with them.
You either have very expensive CubeControl/Ascher or budget-ish Fanantec/Thrustmaster converted wheels, or small unknown companies making wheels (the last category is really leap of faith, because at small scale people cannot provide the after-purchase service).
@@arn6376 Yup, I was very close to pulling the trigger on the Fanatec, 1 cable life, has lots of cheaper wheels, mostly plug and play. However their reliability horror stores are just crazy
@@axzhor fanatec realizability I thought was pretty good?? Looking back on it would you still go with the VRS?
Hey! Maybe you should visit this base now that their software has gotten a refresh and updates!
For better understanding, was referring to minute 2:15 of the video
im not even considering getting a dd wheel yet. And ive still been waiting for a video like this for a while lol
Great, honest video. I look forward to the next 2 :)
Is the software or the controller more important for the ffb? I would have guessed it is the software.
Hey Dan, I run my VRS at 60% in the VRS software. In iRacing settings I have wheel force at 20nm. Are you saying to try 100% in VRS tool and 10nm in iRacing settings?
I understood it as 100% in VRS, Wheel force 20nm in iracing, auto calibrate strength/max force in iracing and adjust to suit from there.
This is primarily for Simucube with iRacing but the idea probably works the same with VRS as well.
This is from David Tucker, a developer at iRacing with a couple of additional details I have added. It's long but clear and accurate:
Feb '20
Here is my description of the iRacing force feedback settings.
First off, in an ideal world we would not need any of the FFB sliders in iRacing. We would just send the raw torque signal in Nm straight from the physics to the wheel and let the wheel itself handle it all. The wheel would still need a way to turn down the force levels, both to avoid saturating the output and for user comfort. We could treat that like a stereo with a volume knob and a clipping light. Most users would figure that out in a few minutes.
The world is not ideal so we have sliders. In particular the api we use to communicate with the wheel takes a unit-less value that ranges from -100% to +100%, but our physics works in Newton meters of torque. The fix there is the max force slider (click on the word "Strength" to toggle the display to "Max Force" if you don’t see it already). That sets what torque value in physics will map to 100% when sending our signal on to the wheel.
You want to set this max force value to be at least as strong as your wheels output (17 Nm for SIMCUBE 2 Sport), and in addition you want it to be higher than the peak force the car will produce in ‘normal’ driving. You can find that peak force via telemetry, or by watching the F meter in sim for clipping, or you can use the Auto button in sim to work out that force. Auto works by collecting data on your driving, and over time will work out to a reasonable level of what the peak torque the car produces. Auto is the button that shows up in the F9 black box next to the FFB Force adjustment in sim, and also next to the Max Force slider in the Options menu under the Force Feedback section, and won’t show up unless you have put in a clean lap in the car.
Auto has a problem in that it can work out the max force the car produces, but it does not know what the max force is that your wheel can produce. If you have a Logitech G27 it hardly matters, that can only produce 2.5 Nm of torque so all cars will produce more torque than that. On the other hand if you have a SIMCUBE 2 Ultimate set to max in the (True Drive) driver you can produce 32 Nm of torque at the rim. Pair that with a car that has a light steering and auto may only see 10 Nm of peak torque from the car. That causes a real problem, if we set 10 Nm from the sim equal to 100% force at the wheel, you will feel 32 Nm of torque when the car asked for 10 Nm giving you 3x the force of the real car, or a serious assault on your hands!
To correct this flaw we have the Wheel Force slider, that is where you tell us what your wheel produces so we can stop auto from setting Max Force below that value. If your wheel is set to 100% output (in True Drive) you just set this Wheel Force slider to whatever the torque is on your wheel base. If it is set to less than 100% output (in True Drive) you can do the math to work out the correct number (so a 32 Nm wheel set to 45% output is 32*0.45 or 14.4 Nm).
All that is a minimum that gives you the most fidelity at the rim without producing an unrealistically strong force. You can (and probably should) turn it down from there (set Max Force even higher) especially if you have a really strong wheel. So basically, you have two choices here, you can turn things down in the wheel firmware or in iRacing (by increasing the Max Force nm level). The higher that Max Force Nm level in relation to the other settings, the lower the wheel strength.
My recommendation is to set the wheel firmware to the strongest force level you want to experience, and then tweak the feel in iRacing if that still feels too strong while driving. However, if you ONLY turn things down in iRacing then in some extreme crash we may end up sending you a signal that still requests 100% wheel force and you don’t want any nasty surprises.
On top of that you should always use linear mode with a strong DD wheel. When we started iRacing there were no strong wheels and non linear allowed the humble G25 wheel to feel more alive. However it is like using bass boost on a $5,000 stereo in this case, basically a bad idea. The same goes for Damping and Min Force in iRacing, those are there to fix issues with older wheels and should be left off.
In summary
1. Set your Wheel Force to your wheel's highest output "that is comfortable/acceptable to you" in True Drive and match it in iRacing using the Wheel Force slider.
2. Use Auto to set Max Force initially (after running a couple of clean laps), then turn things down from there if it is too strong (by increasing Max Force Nm, moving the slider left, as it's an inverse relationship).
-----
David
In my experience I temporarily turn on the Simucube clipping sound notification in True Drive and then test iRacing by selecting the "Auto" option - under Max Force in the F9 black box ("Auto" appears after a couple of clean laps). This is done to see if the direct drive has clipping while driving clean laps after selecting "Auto."
If I hear any clipping alerts (which might occur in heavy turns or over large bumps), I decrease the Max Force (thereby increasing the Max Force Nm) until I no longer hear the clipping alert sound when running the same clean lap again.
If, after making this adjustment, the Force Feedback is too weak, I simply bump up the True Drive "Actual Maximum Torque" by 1 or 2 Nm (by increasing Overall Strength), then match that value in the iRacing Wheel Force setting, and repeat the same process previously mentioned. I keep repeating this step until the Force Feedback feels strong enough and also doesn't clip during clean laps.
At that point (as I understand it) the iRacing Max Force setting is providing full fidelity for your chosen True Drive "Actual Maximum Torque" level under normal clean lap driving conditions (with the exception of crashes).
In addition, crash forces will not exceed the maximum strength set in True Drive. In my case, if clipping occurs during crashes, I don't really care as I won't miss injuring my wrist or hands.
Hope that helps and thanks so much to David Tucker for that thorough earlier explanation.
I think what Dan is saying is that if you set your wheel FFB to 100%, you are allowing access to the full power at peaks such as curb strikes and crashes. In other words you are allowing access to the full dynamic range without distortion. However, when the wheel is set this way, you will need to lower the FFB in game to ensure there is no clipping at those peaks. Think of it like a hifi amplifier and speakers, if you use a 200 watt amplifier and you get good sound pressure levels at say 9 o’clock on your volume level, when the music makes a peak, your amplifier has plenty of dynamic headroom to avoid distortion through the speakers when that peak occurs. But if you are only using say a 5 watt amplifier at 100 % volume, you have no headroom left when the music peaks and therefor you will get distortion, this is like having a lower force feedback wheel, you will have to reduce the volume level and therefor run lower FFB in wheel terms you won’t get the same sound pressure level without distortion. Think about the torque as the amplifiers power and the FFB scale as the volume, thinking about it, I can’t see a problem either setting it in game or via the provided software as long as you use the in game FFB meter to ensure the signal remains unclipped (undistorted) at peaks. Probably easier to do that in game whilst leaving the wheel at 100%, rather than keep coming out to adjust the manufacturers slider. However, they most likely advise setting it at 50% to avoid injury in case you go too far too early in game. Think of your wheel as your power amplifier and the in game slider as your volume setting, I’ve heard some very good quality low powered amplifiers in my time, but they don’t play very loud, same with wheels, just because it has high torque doesn’t necessarily mean it’s well engineered!
58 degrees is fine for an electric motor. As u said, its nothing to worry about
Dont use key I use vrs hub had it since it came out I have had 0 issues. This wheel base is amazing
I run at 100% also and increase max force in iRacing for strength feel. I feel running at 100% I have more range than limiting the base to determine force. VRS recommends using the clipping tuning method but I found it felt to strong all over the range or too weak.
hola dan donde puedo conseguir ese quick release para vrs thanks
HI, just let u guys know. You can buy their control boards individually for $240 ,then 130ST AM10010 mige motor from Lisa, you can find her email from osw simucube diy video on youtube ,then RH050 Resistor and Mean well epp-400-48 PSU from ebay Ali whatever .And a case , u can 3d print it, or just do it u want , It only cost me like $530-$550 to build the wheel base , it depends on the tax and shiping where u live. This is without a doubt the best value for money for a high end wheel base.
What about the power cable that goes from the mige motor to the control box? It doesn't have a pin out, how did you solve for that?
When you say the FFB feels "raw" do you mean it is less interpolated? For Fanatec there is an interpolation filter, which, combined with the force effect intensity, makes a big difference in the amount of "noise" and feeling of microsteps.
There is something up with this base then, because i own the Simucube osw with the motor and even at 100% ffb there is zero heat coming from the motor or the part of the back so not sure why its hot.
No it’s normal, that’s how electric motors work when you stop them ;) SC2 gets hot as well, DD2 even has fans
Thank you for a nice review. I have SC 1 and thinking of upgrading to SC 2 Pro. Not really sure if the upgrade is worth it. You mentioned you felt the difference between these two. Could you maybe give some advice or anyone? Thank you.
your videos are the bests!
hi, i saw the review on the vrs dd pro, i wanted to know which setting do you recommend for iracing? Thanks
Hey Thanks for the Video. I will get the vrs. Can you recommend a shaft and a quick release for a wheel from cube controls. Thx
What USB cable is that?
Just was looking for a VRS v SC2P in ACC kept finding reviews in iracing. Considering VRS or SC2P
Hi Dan, what is the ref of the red part of the quick release please
Where was this video series a year ago??? :)
hi! so when you say the FF is "rawer", you mean compared to the simucube or both the SC2 and fanatec? later in the video it seems you are comparing it to the SC2 but you are talking about it from the start and so far we only had the fanatec review before this one. thanks!
Compared to both of the other 2!
Can we please have the Wallpaper :(((
Hi Dan, great video as usual. I have a VRS but don't get any heat on my servo. Also do you use all 20nm? I have it set to 50% in the VRS software.
Also on iracing if does irFFB override the VRS software?
IrFFB does not override it :) it only gets hot when I use super high force feedback
@@DanSuzuki I run my Simucube 1 osw at 100% ffb same motor and i checked after 2 hours of racing and zero heat.
Good review! I am considering to purchase one vrs direct force pro myself and I quite agree about the concern on their shaft adapter... I just couldn't find any reseller to purchase the key in the buttonhole and a shaft to prevent the assembly from any slip. Do you know where the friends you mention in the clip bought their own?
The key comes with the VRS base! And this is the clamp: www.simracingcoach.com/en/contenido/quick-release-src-aluminium-black/
@@DanSuzuki many thanks 🏆
I didn't quite get the issue with the shaft. So what you are saying is the one in the link is more stable right?
Great Video! Does anyone know the reason for the price difference between the Us and european version? Maybe because of the shipping of the motor?
Us price does not include taxes
Würdest du sagen die VRS Base gibt einem ein besseres Feedback als die dd1 ?
today, in 2024, is it still a valid basis or is it an obsolete product?
are there any updates yet?
Well vrs is better then it ever has been. So for the price it's hard to not consider. Its so good that I would say it matches the simucube and simagic wheelbase. If not slightly better in some ways it's insanity how big of s difference was made this past year. Its why even boosted media latest video is such a massive difference. Its like a compeltely different wheelbase. Its open source so you can use any wheelbase you want with it due to all needing to be plugged in anyways.
This coming from a simagic ultimate owner and lover. I love my ultimate if you can swing it for the price go for it.
But again for the price you cannot beat the vrs. Imo it deserves way more attention and has such an incredible feel. I think it has stronger details and has better suspension feel then all of the other wheelbases.
Nice base.
Hello I bought VRS and I am a little confused which wheels are compatible. I am new on this.
Here's a list from a survey VRS did of popular wheels
virtualracingschool.com/academy/hardware/vrs-directforce-pro-compatible-steering-wheel-options/
Fanatec now working out how big of a hit squad they would need to take out a man who uses 100% FFB.
Dan, I don't want to sound like the 3000 guys that told you before but I saw your settings in iRacing with the SC2 (I happen to have that base) and they are comparable to mine. In ACC with 100% in SC2 software I struggle with 55% (and I am a strong dude as well). You should check your files because I understand you are a tank But there's no way you can sometimes lift one hand in a corner like you did in the video and keep running with 100% force.
run it for a few months ... you gain a lot of strength :)
@@DanSuzuki Guess I found another excercise for my training routine :)
I love my SimCore SC2 mount and HRS Xero Play QR. Fantastic setup.
Where can I buy the wheel your using? I love that thing.
Where do you live? This is the website: gomezsimindustries.com/ but there are also regional distributors (SimRaceShop for EU, Demon Tweaks for UK for example)
@@DanSuzuki Thanks man, I’m in the US.
where did you get the strength to no sweat a 100% ffb ?!
By running this for quite some time now 😅
I'm disappointed with your shaft size, but I guess we can make it work. Kappa
At least he is wearing your merch, free ad :D
@@WaskiLP Haha :D
100% FFB - holy.... thats alot Dan. I cannot move the wheel with 100% FFB
Dang your missing the AccuForce wheel, way better value and output imho.
LOL Next video title.... Which Wheelbase Gives You The Best Workout?
After this video its time to watch the movie Shaft again
yo dan, du musst noch die Beschreibung ändern, steht noch Iracing drin
Hm, das hat TH-cam wohl so entschieden - habe keinen Game Titel angegeben 😅 Aber danke für den Hinweis :)
VRS or the simagic Alpha?? Anyone?
VRS has more torque, 20NM vs 15NM by Simagic Alpha, FFB detail shall on the same level, Simagic Alpha offers wireless wheel which powered by the base like Fanatec, the QR is just the best over all, but its price is 200€ over VRS.
damnn same question here :((
@@DRT_simracingwhat was your decision? Im in the same position right now
@@samuelpastor2093 pulled the trigger with the simucube pro 2 😂 buy once cry once. More than happy! But between vrs and Simagic, I should go with VRS. I’m using the pedals and are amazing, good quality and performance 👍👍
I was seriously considering the VRS after watching your videos and great reviews, but what is really keeping me back is the fact that it is not just plug and play with all the sim titles.
Free grizzle promotion i see too Kappa
I use a Sim-plicity mige with 8m encoder. I just payed 499Euro + Tax for it.... no problems all the time. I dont know why you guys buy this expensive stuff... its just a mige motor nothing more..
I asked VRS & they said the control box on its own is $500
You can hand that VRS down to your kids. It will last forever.
I don't understand this well You want to show something,
and you say I don't do this or that, I can't talk about it !!!
how can you test something properly if you don't use profiles
people dont get it. DAN IS S T R O N K
Shaft!
Du bist Deutsch kann das sein? XD
Möglicherweise 🤔🤣