I want to take a moment to thank you all. I was just checking in on comments in case some moderation was required, I'm always shocked at how civil you all are. I only had to tactical-nuke one psycho who dissed our saxophone opening song. As the kids say, RIP BOZO. When we post 3 hours of day-zero sleep-deprived hot takes and the average negative comment is "You should have been more negative about Ad Mech" or "Brad stop being a dick to Black Templar players!" I gotta say I'm extremely happy with the results and proud of this level headed community. While I'm here though, a quick bit of unsolicited advice for newer players out there: Now that we've had a weekend of first games and official launch is coming up this weekend I just want to assure those of you seeing a lot of negative takes about balance or your army specifically. Don't sweat it, 40K balance has never been perfect and rarely has been good on the first attempt. Just enjoy things as much as you can until a wave of balance adjustments hit, don't miss out on the chance to have a great story for the wild west of 10th's opening weeks. You'll look back fondly at the insane weird lists that were OP for a few days/weeks/months.
40k has never been perfect, but the constant focus on the next big release and increasingly rapid release schedule means that period of "first attempt" comes up more and more often, and we get less and leas time with a mature system. The game is better as a competitive game than it used to be, but thats about all it has going for it, in my humble opinion. Istvaan is lovely this time of year.
I may not get a game in for a few weeks. Which on one hand is too bad but maybe some ideas and balances will have settled by then. I want to enjoy my thousand sons but it’s also been since middle of the edition since my space marines saw a tabletop. So many good things.
Really enjoy your videos. They are some of the only 40k discussion videos I've watched since starting up again last year (since end of 7th), and I love all your discussions!
@@firmak2 They don't, I noticed my mistake this weekend while writing up a different episode idea. It wasn't worth making the editor cut it though, it was at least a real hot take with it being wrong. lol
For 800 points you can bring a Stormlord that can shoot 20 lascannon shots by loading it with heavy weapons teams now. "I shoot 20 lascannons at you." "You mean 20 lasguns?" "No. No I do not."
For Sisters of Battle: Single model units DO get the +1 bonus from their detachment ability. The core rules specify strength rating for single model units.
When designing Imperium: Every possible subfaction gets a codex and unique models. When designing Xenos: Eh, these 5 factions are technically "Aeldari", just shove em in with Craftworld. It'll be ok.
It's annoying but cmon there's so many imperium players compared to aeldar like it just makes sense sorry dude, apparently space elves aren't too popular - who would've guessed
@@georgetudor7913 Because their models are older than half the playerbase. While marines get a new release every month and you get bombarded by their marketing (fortunately not literally anymore). Space Marines would still be a very popular faction, but they are this popular only because GW favors them at the expense of others.
@@BW-CZ It's a real chicken or egg situation. Are the Space Marines so popular because they're promoted the most, or are they so popular because people like the aesthetics of the models? I think everyone has at one point either had some Space Marine models, or a small army of them because they're also the cheapest to get into. Finding second hand marine models is easy, finding second hand Eldar? Not so much.
Doctrina Imperatives feel awful because all Protector does for Skitarii infantry is conditionally undo the nerfs they've received. "Heavy" weapons and -1 AP are powerful abilities, but applying them to a unit that just lost a point of BS and Armor feels genuinely terrible.
The issue with the Admech army rule is that it seems fun/good at first, but then you realize that it means that every single weapon in the codex that should already have either “heavy” or “assault” got those tags stripped from them. Rangers and Breacher HEAVY arc rifles should already have “heavy” and the ironstriders and vanguard should already have “assault”, every other army is balanced around their guns having the appropriate properties but Admech has to use their rules to just get to that point
"Agents of the imerpium should have been folded into deathwatch and called inquisistion" Its probably been mentioned a bunch here but back in 3rd/4th edition, that's how it worked, the grey knights were "demon hunters" and had access to inquisitor stuff and scions in addition to the actual grey knights and sisters of battle codex was called "Ordo Hereticus" with access to inquisitor stuff too. there never was a "ordo xenos" codex but it was speculated that it would have been the same. in later editions they removed the inquisitor stuff from greyknights and sisters.
I dm'd Eric the codexes so he can witness THE SHAME. Also while there was no Ordo Xenos, there was a white dwarf Deathwatch Codex in 4th which existed beside them.
Here is something fun for Brad. Did you catch in the Necron Codex that you can run The Infinite and the Divine? Trazyn and Orikan can hang out together in a unit.
Purgators can teleport within flamer range, out of visibility, auto-hit with flamers thru a wall, then overwatch when the target moves to be able to see you to do it all over again.
On the subject of weird numbers of models in units, Primaris Sword Brethren come in a box of 5 dudes, one of which can be built as a sergeant. Their unit size options are 5.... And 11
@prettyflyforacompsci7725 you are correct. For others reading this, the castellan in the sword Brothers box can still be built as a castellan with combi weapon, but on the index itself there's a weapon profile for master-crafted weapon. It is a exact 1-for-1 of sisters Repentia where the superior is no longer an individual model but part of the unit now.
@Henry-ov7rh that castellan Is part of the squad now, OFFICIALLY the true castellan is the john Blanche one with the giant skull pauldron (don't quote me I might talking out of my ass) but it should be the castellan and sword Brothers together. There's a dedicated black templar channel and someone asked that question, those guys clarified that the castellan is part of the squad. So if you get 2 boxes it's 1 castellan and 9 sword Brothers, for some reason gw didn't write the name for the castellan on the datacard
oh man your admech take is very hot. you are overselling them (although overlooked our one good thing: the omni sterilizer). The faction rule lets you shoot normally IF you stand still and don't interact with the game. In a game where the appeal is to push models around a board and get on objectives, this rule is telling me to just not do the movement phase. Also note that kataphrons (clearly our best units, absolutely nothing to do with them being in the combat patrol and the still-in-stock Christmas box) also get doctrina imperatives despite being cult mechanics. Finally: admech was on the bottom of the leaderboard at the end of 9th, and this index stripped all the buffs of the army and synergy (the main mechanic/playstyle of the army), made everything worse at hitting and kept the points the same. The faction identity has been stripped and it doesn't feel like admech. Guard feels more like admech than admech.
@@0XFallen Taking all the free wargear into account I actually ended up with roughly the same net points in models, which is abysmal considering what they did to everything (oh my poor rangers)
So your hot take on the Agents, DW, and Inquisiiton all being a singular army...well they were, once upon a time. I would not be surprised if we see them get a compendium with cool detachments like that again
I suspect we will see factions merge back together in time, especially when they catch up and release less books and when everything is digital you don't get page number limits etc to worry about.
2:54:19 for those interested in what aos nurgle is; ending move or combat phase within 3inch of a unit as well as every 6 to hit stacks a disease point on the enemy to a max of 7 per unit. at the end of the turn you roll a number of dice equal to disease points and each 4+ does a mortal wound oh and we still have armywide 5+ ward (fnp)
My hottake on the 2 fixes I would make (As an Aeldari player): 1) Stands of Fate dice are not "natural" X, therefore dont set off D-Cannon, etc.; 2) Death Guard Army Rule adds echoing MW's; when an attack by one of your Death Guard models inflicts a MW, give the model receiving that would a Plague token - at the beginning of your next Command Phase, each model with a Plague Token tales an additional MW and has the token removed.
Alternatively DG could put Plage Tokens on models that took a critical wound or Lethal DMG inside a Plague Aura - that might be toned down enough but still give them a really fluffy but game-effecting method to pass on Papa Nurgle's gift
One of the simplest for death guard would have just been swapping the objective to a DIFFERENT debuff/bonus Like -1 toughness from units, -1 str points or something like that
@@chandlerpearce6213 I feel like DG really lacks some identity and, as always, punch; that may be influenced by my YT habit and level of consumption. To me, DG looks like a sloggy, kind of boring fight, especially because I favor fast, ranged precision strikes. If there was this terrible creeping horror, knowing that the longer DG units were on the table, the damage they did would grow geometrically would reward DG players for patience and be fun and terrifying for everyone. Especially the fluff guys.
Excuse me, in what universe are AdMech's army rule anyway close to strong? One half is turbo-situational, and the other is there to give you *some* stuff they removed from the data sheets.
I think they were getting at the potential being high. while in practice yes it doesn't do that much due to the being in deployment zones being a limiting factor on it. the army ability technically can do quite a lot.
I appreciate you guys recognizing that Iron Warriors players might be mad about Dark Pacts. I myself was at first. But then I remembered that Perturabo himself made a Dark Pact with Sa'ra'am, the renegade Khorne daemon, and received the very first Obliterator. And from there the Obliterator Technovirus spread across their machines and wargear. So maybe they're still rocking the OG dark pact to this day. I don't hate it anymore, especially with Obliterators in the army. I've made it make sense.
You forgot the best part about Kastellan robots! Because the datasmith is infantry, they get wounded by anti infantry like if they were infantry :))))))))))))))))))) YAY :)))))))))))
@@SenseiLlama Yup. A unit with a leader is treated as having the keywords of both the bodyguard and leader unit, so the unit would have both the vehicle and infantry keywords. In the extended rules commentary thing, they give the example of anti-psyker attacks working against a unit led by the psyker even if the bodyguards are normal units. There's some funky stuff with the leader rules that I feel is probably going to be changed at some point, though maybe not until next edition. For instance, leaders are treated as if they had the toughness of the bodyguard unit if they're targeted while the bodyguard is still alive, which can lead to things like a Neurotyrant with a Neurogaunt bodyguard taking hits at T3 instead of the T8 on its datasheet. (it's probably that way to make it easier to roll attacks against units with a leader but it ends up being unintuitive and pretty dumb)
@chozochampion well. That'd disappointing, so my kastelens aren't walking behemoths. Can I take them by themselves? With no datasmith? Ah, well, at least they look cool.
I truly appreciate the effort put in to this content. Thanks a bunch poorhammer. What a fantastic coincidence this video is coming out the same night my work is getting a shipment of things that I know will get delegated to me to put up by those I'm supervising.
It's ludicrously strong. I have two games of 10ed under my belt with them already, and my god, do armies that can't move around the board have a massive issue with GSC now. I played one game against Votann and another against Custodes - and I stomped both games. Cult Ambush is strong in its own right, especially when you consider that a solid chunk of the roster is battleline, but what really pushes it over the edge is the free wargear. When you combine cult ambush, the redeployment strategems, and the free wargear, you wind up in a situation where you have infinitely respawning, extremely mobile, chaff units that are hitting above their weight class.
@@dudemcfurgusson7179 Not a fan of stuff like demolition run then I take it? The best part is jackals are also battleline, so they're just infinitely respawning as well.
@@spnked9516did you guys remember that each time a unit is killed it counts for VPs for the opponent? Seems a lot of people are missing that. If you are letting the opponent blow up your stuff non stop they are probably winning the game
@@Aodyri Losing some units here and there is fine if you retain near total board control. Backdooring objectives and flanking are how you win as GSC. Whats the saying? One death is a tragedy, one hundred is a statistic.
As someone with a lot of Plague Marines and a lot of Hearthkyn Warriors, I really wish I could take a cheaper block of a unit without special guns so I don’t have to basically slow roll to still miss all my shots.
@@thepoorhammerpodcastjust played a 10th ed game against my necron buddy, and he just coldly stared at me for the 15 minutes after I had told that my crusader squad makes 55 chainsword attacks, sustained 1, lethal, and reroll hits
I think it would be cool if BT had 6+ FNP instead of Oath of Moment to reflect their divergence from the Codex Astartes, then each vow could be balanced a bit better. I've mostly played with Gladius because it suits my collection but it makes sense to me. In the one tournament I took R. Crusaders with I took Emperor's Honor every time. Though I did have to play lots of knights.
Three hours of Brad and Eric?! What a treat! I was listening at work but I had to save myself the latter half so I can truly appreciate it while I do some painting!
Already strapped in for the long haul with this one. Would be interested to know opinions regarding the Necron/Tyranid/SpaceMarine Combat Patrol disappointment.
One thing about Thousand Sons: they finally made Tzaangors kind of do something productive. If any are on an objective, they farm a Cabal point on a 4+. It's not the best, but if you're got Tzaangors collecting dust on your shelf (or, more likely, in your Pile of Shame), it might inspire you to run one or two units in games. If only to make up for the low number of usable Psyker datasheets. Going to the other side of the aisle, though, Jesus Christ GW did Death Guard dirty. Them and AdMech. Holy shit.
I appreciate your kind words about Harlequins. I’d honestly be pretty cool with a separate Aeldari Minoris (or some similarly named) minor Aeldari codex. Craftworlds have always been pretty bland to me, there are stuff I like in there, aspect warriors, and wraiths being those. But I really just think they should roll a bunch of minor Aeldari stuff into a minor codex provided each still has an army rule. This could include Harlequins, Ynnari, Corsairs, and maybe even some Exodite models riding Dinos if we’re feeling spicy. As for the 4 more Harlequin units they could add, there’s actually quite a lot I think. -Mimes are real and exist in lore, these can be your battleline objective holders -master mines are also real in lore and they could be a designated leader for mines, give them some obsec bonus or something -wraiths of some description (my personal name for them now is marionettes), probably some Harlequin flavored wraithblades -Harlequin Wraithlord, which again, existed in lore at some point. If you look up Harlequin Wraithlord rogue trader, it is possibly one of the most cursed 40k things I’ve ever seen, right below the great clean one.
I discovered this channel a couple of days ago (yes, 10th edition is the reason) and just wanted to say it's excellent. I come from AoS (I was a proper old timey 40k player, but 9th never really tempted me) and there are several really good AoS related channels that I watch, but I've found most 40k ones... not to my taste. Having binge watched most of your videos, and then found my way to your non-video podcasts, I can safely say that's not the case here. This is exactly the sort of content I am looking for.
Spot on with your comment on "I enjoy adjusting a list for 10 hours, but I have to put my personal feelings aside". It's always been apart of Games Workshop games, but it doesn't help accessibility and never has. I used to pour over 2nd edition rulebooks during school lessons and out play my opponents because they didn't know all the tricks and minutia of the lists and rules. It doesn't make for a good fun game experience. 8th finally shook that up and AoS and 10th really turn it on its head. Here is to the future of list building.
Tau RAW things: you can daisy chain your FTGG because a unit that has been guided is not "observing", so if you have 6 units, you can have 5 of them bs3+. Second, gun drones have a very important niche. They are assault. This means any unit that takes a gun drone can perform markerlights after advancing because it is "eligible to shoot" because there is an assault gun in the unit. This comes in huge for things like fire warriors which natively have the markerligjt keyword.
came here to say the same thing about the gundrone! We lost assault on 99% of our weapons so this is the only way to advance and mark without a marker drone. But also the ghostkeel doesnt have nearly enough damage output rn to be broken, its very good, not broken. Its just a weird kind of distraction carnifex. What is broken is how mediocre the riptide is.
I swear getting space marine sand painting them black gets your 5 different army's. Black templars, iron hands, dark angels ravenwing, deathwatch and normal space marines.
I come back to this video all the time just to see how much has changed in the community this edition. Just today this helped me through assembling a Megatrakk Scrapjet at work. Thanks!
I will say that the tzaangor being able to generate some cabal points as backline objective holders is nice to have. Also the tsons cultist rule is really funny, literally born to die
On the one hand, I'm glad that my CSM army can still ally in daemon units for flavor. On the other hand, those units will effectively not have an army rule, will not have a detachment rule, and will not have access to detachment strategems, but you still pay points for them as if they did. I mean, I'll take it over getting 5th editioned again, but it could be a lot better.
Heirloom weapons are bullshit. It makes sense for the axe, maul, and sword; but not for the thunder hammer and lightning claws. Edit: 27:57 Brad, they took away the thunder hammers.
@@thepoorhammerpodcast I was thinking about van-vets, since they still had to pay for all their wargear in 9th. They're aren't any BA players in my circle, so I don't know wether or not death company had to pay for their thunder hammers.
Clarification: In the Imperial Knights army rules the Thunderstomp stratagem clearly says that "all melee weapons equipped by your model have the [DEVASTATING WOUNDS] ability." so it works on more than feet. So all those 18 attacks from a Gallant's chainsword sweep get Devastating Wounds. For 1 CP that is spicy.
@petermccall1185 What happens when you screen those out and focus fire them? You can only have 3 of them so once those are taken down its going to be a bad time.
The issue is that 2nd ed AoS and beyond is a really good system and fixes a lot of the issues in balancing, approachability, list building, codex creep, bloat, etc that GW has struggled with for nearly 2 decades... but AoS was also built from thr ground up. GW haphazaedly forcing an AoS style system into 40k doesn't work, especially since they took some of the dumbed-down unit/rules approach without the fun army special rules and crazy unit abilities/tactics that AoS uses to make up for it.
@@iannordin5250 There also the issue that if they make 40k into AoS with just a different them then the two games will be competing against each other. The whole all wargear cost the same is a bad system. Worse depending more one army and detachment rules to bring fluff to the rule is also bad.
I was wondering what to do with my afternoon... these hot takes are gonna be exactly what i needed to entertain myself!! Thanks for all the hard work guys, love your stuff
A note for the Tau gun drones. Their only real utility they provide is giving a model (and the unit) assault so that they are eligible to shoot after advancing. While the damage output is trash, this allows them to do actions or to act as observers for other units, which the latter is super nice
Listened to the spotify version, im glad you understand your irrational hate for black templars is a hot take. Theyre not my favorite faction in the world but they are absolutely not garbage, they are one of the best chapters out there lore wise and model wise. Also yeah death guard RIP we got done absolutely dirty this edition
Special shout out to Mists of Deimos for being a silver bullet against melee armies. Oh, what's that? You got within 9" to charge me? Excuse me while I simply pick up the thing you were going to charge and put it in deep strike, thus leaving your scary melee unit twiddling its thumbs for an entire round. Have fun! Yeah Grey Knights are obnoxious as hell and I'm actually glad to have them now (coincidentally, I happen to have the same armies as Eric... just with my main and secondary reversed). I pulled them off the shelf for some initial games of 10th and they're so fun.
No, no we wouldn't be. I didn't go Death Guard to be debuffy or killy, I went Death Guard to be a tough grindy army... Because... you know... they WERE the tough grindy army since they were introduced.
@Poorhammer I get your frustration with the LOC & Kairos only having a single "spell" (i'm also not a fan of turning psychic spells into just a gun) but the chickens are 230 (255 with enhancement) and 285 respectively and a unit of Pink Horrors joined by a changecaster and you have a solid castle going on and all that for 745 points. Also the Tzeentch Soul Grinders get a gun with D3 shots Blast S12 AP2 d6+2 damage. So i don't think it's all doom and gloom for mono-tzeentch.
Lol I'm actually having my brother print two soul grinders this week. They might be done by the time I go over his house Saturday. Mono Tzeentch will be fine power wise, my problem is entirely in the design and lack of "magic" feeling.
I kinda disagree with the votann comment about bringing bigger units -- our army rule procs when a unit is destroyed, but we don't have much in the way of expendable enough chaff to leverage it. I think part of the reason that Sagitaur are priced a little steep is that, if nothing else, you can use them to split some warriors, rush five guys with bolters or whatever up the board and force the opponent to kill em and put a token on themselves, while the other five warriors with the fancy guns stick with a leader and make use of that token. If anything I wish you could bring warriors in units of five and skip the effort (and the overpriced car lol)
I think we both like the edition overall, our gripes have been the same since the original reveal, if anything several of them have been put to rest. All 10th needs at this point is a round of FAQs and a balance pass and it'll be a fun 3 years.
I've put together a 8 model list for Tsons, that is removing 4000-5000 pts of anything but Eldar by Turns 3 and 4. Magnus, 3 Vortex Beasts, 3 Daemon Princes, 1 Knight Tyrant. Nothings killed more than 3 models, nothing lasts passed Turn 4. This isn't a joke. I'm not trolling. Synergies along with the pts being so low on those various units, leads to games that are horribly unbalanced.
Yesterday I was talking with the patrons about list ideas, and while I didn't go as far as you did, I had a similar build with only 2 beasts and replacing the tyrant with everything I could to hit ~17 CaPs with Arhiman etc. I think it's a shockingly solid list even if more broken ones end up found. Found the list: Magnus, Ahriman, Sorce with Scrolls, 2x5 rubrics for each leader to lead, 3 DPs with wings, one with Forbidden Lore one with Arcane Vortex, 2 MVBs, and Kairos Fateweaver souped in. It's a LOT of possible damage output on big tanky bodies with just enough point holding power to not feel dumb to do.
@@thepoorhammerpodcast OMG someone finally took me seriously! I have been screaming for days now, I play everyday, and Tsons are so above and beyond everyone else, we're putting money down on our next games, to see who can take 4k pts and beat this 2k pt army. We started letting the other players not tally CP and just use ANY stratagem they want. I'm still undefeated lol
@@Mag_ladroth That IS the list. This is why I've been screaming. "Holy crap look what 8 models can do!" lol Magnus, 3 Vortex Beasts, 1 Daemon Prince without wings, 2 Daemon Princes with Wings, a Knight Tyrant with the Harpoon and Flamer
I’m a Black Templars player and I’m absolutely loving it, I did like 55 chainsword attacks rerolling hits cause grimmy boy is running along, sustained hits 1 and lethal hits from vow and stratagem. I completely waffle stomped a 20 man unit of necron warriors and a couple of characters with them and some power fists
Gosh dang why they gotta roast my Craftworlds like that 😢 I love their aesthetic and lore. Warrior monks and seers that look into fate itself and have to try to big brain everybody because they don't have the bodies not to Granted there's not much writing for them (that's very good, anyways) but still. The aeldari are such a cool faction. I haven't come across anyone saying they are boring before. People outright dislike them a lot lol but don't necessarily think they're boring 😓
Listening to your rant about the Drukhari detachment, I have a feeling that you don't get them very well. Their whole thing is that they all hate one another, but they have to work together to survive because none of the branches have the resources to succeed on their own, at least not without investing everything they have, which is a huge risk and not very practical for regular slave raids. They even have a strict "no backstabbing in realspace, ever" rule that they follow zealously. The survival of their entire species is on the line in these raids, and it's enough to force them into line. So yes, it makes absolute sense for them to have a detachment emphasizing the aspect of the army that has been at the forefront since 5th edition, or even earlier.
Feel like you guys were waaay too optimistic on GK. Their army ability is great, but does not balance out the near complete loss of all psychic from their all-psychic army, their complete loss of all anti-armor weapons for infantry and extreme weapon nerfs for Dreadknights, and their cataclysmic points increases that make infantry units costed close to Custodes and Dreadknights costed close to Imperial Knights. After Adeptus Mechanicus, Deathguard, and Votann, GK look to be among the weakest armies in 10th.
You guys are so awesome! I love the aside at the beginning about everyone’s neigh saying is all conjecture. You always represent the average fan so truthfully, thanks!
This is weird, but this episode was great to listen to because both Brad and Eric seemed to be in such a good, relaxed mood. Made the entire listening experience really enjoyable and engaging.
If they're gonna force Harlequins into Eldari, I think they should redo things where there's only a single Imperium faction and set of rules for Space Marines, Sisters, Ad Mech, Knights, Custodes, Gaurd, Death Watch, etc.and just delete one of them every edition.
I got in my first game of 10th a few days ago and I was impressed by how cool the psychic blast from the Zoanthropes was. It wasn't just another ranged weapon profile as I feared because it was so unlike the other weapon profiles.
You forgot the one big problem with the Votann army rule... the only use you will ever get out of it is from the detachment rule(only way to get them without losing a unit), and even then it's not going to help you come back when almost every army just laughs at your pea shooters.
As someone who really likes the flavor for Ynnari, it just being Craftworlds but soup in Drukhari, I wish there was more to it. I wish we had more than three data sheets that were unique to us.
I suspect the ynnari models didn't sell how they hoped so they became a dead end. There's lots of that across all their games to some extent, trying something and keeping it around purely because they still need to get back the investment in tooling costs etc, as soon as they hit that though they can easily just quietly forget they ever existed.
3 hours??? You absolute legends. It's not going to do anyone any good for at least a year, but my hope is that the paring back of psychic complexity is to make space for a 40k equivalent to AoS' Endless Spells. I don't think I'd want it available across the board, but a lot of the factions that are coming in a underweight here match where I think it would fit best. There needs to be another tier of specialization above what we have to sell the play fantasy of Tzeench, Nurgle, and Adeptas Sororitas in particular. I'd actually probably lump Necrons in there too, but I don't think that's obviously missing the way the others are.
Bolter Discipline in a vacuum seems 'eh'. But if you put it on a Lieutenant (who already grants [Lethal Hits]) then get re-rolls either with Oath of Moment or a unit that has re-roll hits anyway... suddenly it becomes a very substantial damage increase in Devastator Doctrine. Which you can do every turn with Adaptive Strategy if you want to. It's actually the enhancement that tickles my Johnny side the most.
Thanks for your thoughts fellas, I picked up a death guard boarding patrol thinking this edition might show 'em some love. Now I don't feel as bad that it's sitting on top of my 20 year old pile of shame. x) Back to Thousand sons and off to print some helbrutes! Gotta fire up those demonic 3d printers for another run it seems.
Managed to finish a squad of intercessors as I listened to this and it’s great to hear all about the different factions this edition, hats off to the editor for cutting it all together anyway keep up the good work guys
The most frustrating things with the Death Guard Army Rule is the lack of complexity in effects (compared to other Chaos factions) and the lack of synergy with the other pseudo-Army Rule we got in Plague weapons with Lethal Hits. I wont rant into why these dont obviously gel but I can make DG much better with 2 changes, one to the Army and one to the Detachment: Army: The aura effect works as is and keeps the -1T but now we add 2 more bullet points = 1st is that any weapon attacks that have Lethal Hits made by Death Guard units to enemies in the aura trigger on a 5+ and 2nd is Death Guard units have a 5 or 6+ Feel No Pain against any attacks made by enemy units that are in the aura. Detachment: the Infection part of ability that generates the aura is permanent, so it creates an area that applies the new debuffs above to enemies trying to take that objective. Now i dont know how strong those changes might be but i think it keeps the new direction of DG as CQC fighters but gives DG players that identity we want as hard to kill and infectious marines
That inquisition idea could work, and you could get around the grey knights by having some of thier datasheets be under "other datasheets" similar to how csm can take rubrics, zerkers, plague marines, and noise marines, theyre just not battleline in a csm army.
34:05 Screw you, Black Templars go back to 3rd as the poster boys, and they've had their own codex going back to 4th. I also really disagree with the take that choosing the vows before battle is a bad system. The Anti Psyker pick, for example, is so specialized that it is worthless against a non Psyker army, and so it was never brought in 9th, along with all the other vows, because 5+ invlun was always the one to choose. If you have issues with it as a Psyker player, which you might being the type of filthy Thousand Sons player, that made me wait 20 mins per psychic phase in last edition, you should advocate the nerfing of the anti Psyker vow, not essentially banning the vow by making it a list building pick no one will pick.
Watching this a month later as an ork player. I love my Gorkanaut! It literally one shotted my brothers mortarian in a charge, no waagh. Love the Gork!
The art and fluff are integral to the game, obviously. The idea that WH40K can be effetely reduced to crunch for the sake of "competition" is dubious at best. EDIT: However, there is nothing wrong with (and even something inherently useful) about direct rules that are easy to access.
On the subject of Imperial Agents: I think the Vindicare has a home in Knights as a character sniper to proc Lay Low the Tyrant. It also was a lower points model to allow me to upgrade one of my armigers from last edition to a Valiant. It also works from a lore perspective if you paint a helvrin like Jester from Assassinorum Kingmaker.
![[Full] 4 ต่อ 4 Celebrity EP.910 | 22 ก.ย. 67 | one31](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4TR3MVpOiw8/mqdefault.jpg)
I want to take a moment to thank you all. I was just checking in on comments in case some moderation was required, I'm always shocked at how civil you all are. I only had to tactical-nuke one psycho who dissed our saxophone opening song. As the kids say, RIP BOZO. When we post 3 hours of day-zero sleep-deprived hot takes and the average negative comment is "You should have been more negative about Ad Mech" or "Brad stop being a dick to Black Templar players!" I gotta say I'm extremely happy with the results and proud of this level headed community.
While I'm here though, a quick bit of unsolicited advice for newer players out there:
Now that we've had a weekend of first games and official launch is coming up this weekend I just want to assure those of you seeing a lot of negative takes about balance or your army specifically. Don't sweat it, 40K balance has never been perfect and rarely has been good on the first attempt. Just enjoy things as much as you can until a wave of balance adjustments hit, don't miss out on the chance to have a great story for the wild west of 10th's opening weeks. You'll look back fondly at the insane weird lists that were OP for a few days/weeks/months.
40k has never been perfect, but the constant focus on the next big release and increasingly rapid release schedule means that period of "first attempt" comes up more and more often, and we get less and leas time with a mature system.
The game is better as a competitive game than it used to be, but thats about all it has going for it, in my humble opinion.
Istvaan is lovely this time of year.
I may not get a game in for a few weeks. Which on one hand is too bad but maybe some ideas and balances will have settled by then.
I want to enjoy my thousand sons but it’s also been since middle of the edition since my space marines saw a tabletop. So many good things.
The thousand sons hellbrute thing. Do the auras stack like that? Cuz they work like auras and auras can effect a unit no more than +1
Really enjoy your videos. They are some of the only 40k discussion videos I've watched since starting up again last year (since end of 7th), and I love all your discussions!
@@firmak2 They don't, I noticed my mistake this weekend while writing up a different episode idea. It wasn't worth making the editor cut it though, it was at least a real hot take with it being wrong. lol
For 800 points you can bring a Stormlord that can shoot 20 lascannon shots by loading it with heavy weapons teams now. "I shoot 20 lascannons at you."
"You mean 20 lasguns?"
"No. No I do not."
"Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether they could, they didn't stop to think if they should"
“It’s a feature, not a bug.”
Time to buy a few dozen heavy weapon teams
i think you cant take that many heavy weapons team since the cap for a single datasheet is 3. still 11 lascannons
You can only take 3 of the same. So 9. Don't know if they use their BS but that would be 5s to hit if so.
For Sisters of Battle: Single model units DO get the +1 bonus from their detachment ability. The core rules specify strength rating for single model units.
"I think the Admech detachment ability is neat!"
You missed a golden opportunity, man! The detachment isn't neat it's "RAD"!
I've never been more disappointed with myself (so far)
@@thepoorhammerpodcast it's okay, I believe in you. You can get so much worse.
@@EdBurke37^
It's a pretty trash ability, but it's hilarious that they gave an army the ability to go "Fuck you." * Irradiates your deployment zone *
3 Hours? This is going to be a good hobby session
Excellently said
This is gonna get me through half my shift man
Gotta save it for later then!
Its like they knew how bad my pile of shame was
@@rain_uc3 hours wouldn't even get me through half of my unbuilt things 😅
When designing Imperium: Every possible subfaction gets a codex and unique models.
When designing Xenos: Eh, these 5 factions are technically "Aeldari", just shove em in with Craftworld. It'll be ok.
It's annoying but cmon there's so many imperium players compared to aeldar like it just makes sense sorry dude, apparently space elves aren't too popular - who would've guessed
@@georgetudor7913 Because their models are older than half the playerbase. While marines get a new release every month and you get bombarded by their marketing (fortunately not literally anymore). Space Marines would still be a very popular faction, but they are this popular only because GW favors them at the expense of others.
@georgetudor7913 maybe they wouldn't be the most common army if they weren't in every New Edition box and 3/4 of the Two Factions One Box sets.
@@georgetudor7913 Is this a purely UK thing? Michigan here, Space Marines specifically aren't super popular, it tends to be Chaos and Tau
@@BW-CZ It's a real chicken or egg situation. Are the Space Marines so popular because they're promoted the most, or are they so popular because people like the aesthetics of the models? I think everyone has at one point either had some Space Marine models, or a small army of them because they're also the cheapest to get into. Finding second hand marine models is easy, finding second hand Eldar? Not so much.
Doctrina Imperatives feel awful because all Protector does for Skitarii infantry is conditionally undo the nerfs they've received. "Heavy" weapons and -1 AP are powerful abilities, but applying them to a unit that just lost a point of BS and Armor feels genuinely terrible.
The issue with the Admech army rule is that it seems fun/good at first, but then you realize that it means that every single weapon in the codex that should already have either “heavy” or “assault” got those tags stripped from them. Rangers and Breacher HEAVY arc rifles should already have “heavy” and the ironstriders and vanguard should already have “assault”, every other army is balanced around their guns having the appropriate properties but Admech has to use their rules to just get to that point
"Agents of the imerpium should have been folded into deathwatch and called inquisistion"
Its probably been mentioned a bunch here but back in 3rd/4th edition, that's how it worked, the grey knights were "demon hunters" and had access to inquisitor stuff and scions in addition to the actual grey knights and sisters of battle codex was called "Ordo Hereticus" with access to inquisitor stuff too. there never was a "ordo xenos" codex but it was speculated that it would have been the same. in later editions they removed the inquisitor stuff from greyknights and sisters.
I dm'd Eric the codexes so he can witness THE SHAME.
Also while there was no Ordo Xenos, there was a white dwarf Deathwatch Codex in 4th which existed beside them.
@@MechaEmperor7000 i dont understand why those codexs are considered "the shame"
Here is something fun for Brad. Did you catch in the Necron Codex that you can run The Infinite and the Divine? Trazyn and Orikan can hang out together in a unit.
Purgators can teleport within flamer range, out of visibility, auto-hit with flamers thru a wall, then overwatch when the target moves to be able to see you to do it all over again.
On the subject of weird numbers of models in units, Primaris Sword Brethren come in a box of 5 dudes, one of which can be built as a sergeant. Their unit size options are 5.... And 11
That's cos they expect you to have a Castellan, which is silly
@@noi2048 you can build one of the brothers as a castellan though. That's the sergeant for the squad
@prettyflyforacompsci7725 you are correct. For others reading this, the castellan in the sword Brothers box can still be built as a castellan with combi weapon, but on the index itself there's a weapon profile for master-crafted weapon. It is a exact 1-for-1 of sisters Repentia where the superior is no longer an individual model but part of the unit now.
@@mikepopovici4810however, if you build the Castellan, you then only have 4 regular sword brothers in that box. So you are still down a guy.
@Henry-ov7rh that castellan Is part of the squad now, OFFICIALLY the true castellan is the john Blanche one with the giant skull pauldron (don't quote me I might talking out of my ass) but it should be the castellan and sword Brothers together. There's a dedicated black templar channel and someone asked that question, those guys clarified that the castellan is part of the squad. So if you get 2 boxes it's 1 castellan and 9 sword Brothers, for some reason gw didn't write the name for the castellan on the datacard
oh man your admech take is very hot. you are overselling them (although overlooked our one good thing: the omni sterilizer). The faction rule lets you shoot normally IF you stand still and don't interact with the game. In a game where the appeal is to push models around a board and get on objectives, this rule is telling me to just not do the movement phase. Also note that kataphrons (clearly our best units, absolutely nothing to do with them being in the combat patrol and the still-in-stock Christmas box) also get doctrina imperatives despite being cult mechanics. Finally: admech was on the bottom of the leaderboard at the end of 9th, and this index stripped all the buffs of the army and synergy (the main mechanic/playstyle of the army), made everything worse at hitting and kept the points the same. The faction identity has been stripped and it doesn't feel like admech. Guard feels more like admech than admech.
Well the points got upped ~30% as well xd
@@0XFallen Taking all the free wargear into account I actually ended up with roughly the same net points in models, which is abysmal considering what they did to everything (oh my poor rangers)
I find it hilarious that the way they made Psychic work is like going back to 3e's Zoanathropes just having a psychic Gun.
Believe it or not, that's how psychic powers worked all the way up until mortal wounds were introduced in 8th edition.
So your hot take on the Agents, DW, and Inquisiiton all being a singular army...well they were, once upon a time. I would not be surprised if we see them get a compendium with cool detachments like that again
I suspect we will see factions merge back together in time, especially when they catch up and release less books and when everything is digital you don't get page number limits etc to worry about.
2:54:19
for those interested in what aos nurgle is; ending move or combat phase within 3inch of a unit as well as every 6 to hit stacks a disease point on the enemy to a max of 7 per unit. at the end of the turn you roll a number of dice equal to disease points and each 4+ does a mortal wound
oh and we still have armywide 5+ ward (fnp)
My hottake on the 2 fixes I would make (As an Aeldari player): 1) Stands of Fate dice are not "natural" X, therefore dont set off D-Cannon, etc.; 2) Death Guard Army Rule adds echoing MW's; when an attack by one of your Death Guard models inflicts a MW, give the model receiving that would a Plague token - at the beginning of your next Command Phase, each model with a Plague Token tales an additional MW and has the token removed.
Alternatively DG could put Plage Tokens on models that took a critical wound or Lethal DMG inside a Plague Aura - that might be toned down enough but still give them a really fluffy but game-effecting method to pass on Papa Nurgle's gift
One of the simplest for death guard would have just been swapping the objective to a DIFFERENT debuff/bonus
Like -1 toughness from units, -1 str points or something like that
@@chandlerpearce6213 I feel like DG really lacks some identity and, as always, punch; that may be influenced by my YT habit and level of consumption. To me, DG looks like a sloggy, kind of boring fight, especially because I favor fast, ranged precision strikes. If there was this terrible creeping horror, knowing that the longer DG units were on the table, the damage they did would grow geometrically would reward DG players for patience and be fun and terrifying for everyone. Especially the fluff guys.
Had to double take -- 3hrs hot takes... perfectly timed to listen to on the way to and through the airport
It's not an expected place for them, but the Quick-Start rules have all the USRs/Weapon Tags in a reasonable place together
Super funny coming back to this episode 4 months later 😂😂😂
"I don't care just tell me what happens"😂 is so on point
Feels good to be a Black Templar player
Excuse me, in what universe are AdMech's army rule anyway close to strong? One half is turbo-situational, and the other is there to give you *some* stuff they removed from the data sheets.
Agree, admech got shafted in every way possible.
These guys really seem to be wrong on basically half of the takes in this video.
I think they are usually pretty good on armies they play/own but miss the mark on the ones they don't. Some more than others.
I think they were getting at the potential being high. while in practice yes it doesn't do that much due to the being in deployment zones being a limiting factor on it. the army ability technically can do quite a lot.
@@adenevans5156 Yeah, and all it can do are things that were just on the datasheet by default the previous edition.
I appreciate you guys recognizing that Iron Warriors players might be mad about Dark Pacts. I myself was at first. But then I remembered that Perturabo himself made a Dark Pact with Sa'ra'am, the renegade Khorne daemon, and received the very first Obliterator. And from there the Obliterator Technovirus spread across their machines and wargear. So maybe they're still rocking the OG dark pact to this day. I don't hate it anymore, especially with Obliterators in the army. I've made it make sense.
You forgot the best part about Kastellan robots! Because the datasmith is infantry, they get wounded by anti infantry like if they were infantry :))))))))))))))))))) YAY :)))))))))))
Wait seriously?
I'm new to 40k (tabletop, that is). I thought kastellans looked good.
@@SenseiLlama Yup. A unit with a leader is treated as having the keywords of both the bodyguard and leader unit, so the unit would have both the vehicle and infantry keywords. In the extended rules commentary thing, they give the example of anti-psyker attacks working against a unit led by the psyker even if the bodyguards are normal units.
There's some funky stuff with the leader rules that I feel is probably going to be changed at some point, though maybe not until next edition. For instance, leaders are treated as if they had the toughness of the bodyguard unit if they're targeted while the bodyguard is still alive, which can lead to things like a Neurotyrant with a Neurogaunt bodyguard taking hits at T3 instead of the T8 on its datasheet. (it's probably that way to make it easier to roll attacks against units with a leader but it ends up being unintuitive and pretty dumb)
@chozochampion well. That'd disappointing, so my kastelens aren't walking behemoths.
Can I take them by themselves? With no datasmith?
Ah, well, at least they look cool.
I really like the adaptive nature of the tyranid rules. It fits with the whole theme of the nids changing to overcome their prey.
I truly appreciate the effort put in to this content. Thanks a bunch poorhammer.
What a fantastic coincidence this video is coming out the same night my work is getting a shipment of things that I know will get delegated to me to put up by those I'm supervising.
as a genestealer cults player i am SO happy with our new rule
It's ludicrously strong. I have two games of 10ed under my belt with them already, and my god, do armies that can't move around the board have a massive issue with GSC now. I played one game against Votann and another against Custodes - and I stomped both games.
Cult Ambush is strong in its own right, especially when you consider that a solid chunk of the roster is battleline, but what really pushes it over the edge is the free wargear. When you combine cult ambush, the redeployment strategems, and the free wargear, you wind up in a situation where you have infinitely respawning, extremely mobile, chaff units that are hitting above their weight class.
@@dudemcfurgusson7179 Not a fan of stuff like demolition run then I take it?
The best part is jackals are also battleline, so they're just infinitely respawning as well.
@@spnked9516did you guys remember that each time a unit is killed it counts for VPs for the opponent? Seems a lot of people are missing that.
If you are letting the opponent blow up your stuff non stop they are probably winning the game
@@Aodyri Losing some units here and there is fine if you retain near total board control. Backdooring objectives and flanking are how you win as GSC.
Whats the saying? One death is a tragedy, one hundred is a statistic.
@@spnked9516 Jackals aren't battleline, but they can still come back on a 4+
As someone with a lot of Plague Marines and a lot of Hearthkyn Warriors, I really wish I could take a cheaper block of a unit without special guns so I don’t have to basically slow roll to still miss all my shots.
Caught this on my podcasts but huge shout out to the editor for cranking this out so fast!
thunderstomp actually buffs ANY melee weapon equipped, including thunderstrike gauntlets or reaper chainswords
love the work guys
I just had to go back and re-read that. What a stupid carry-over name to use. This has an entirely different use case now.
From what I can tell, Detachment Rules are Rites of War Lite.
I like this.
GOD I JUST LOVE HOT STEAMY TAKES
I love the butthurt when you guys talk about the black templars. I came for hottakes and i found a mountain of salt :p
I've settled on BT as my punching bag, because of every faction I've ranted at for a bit BT players always take it the best.
@@thepoorhammerpodcastjust played a 10th ed game against my necron buddy, and he just coldly stared at me for the 15 minutes after I had told that my crusader squad makes 55 chainsword attacks, sustained 1, lethal, and reroll hits
@@ianlachey1726 And you deserve that stare
Salt feeds the eternal crusade brother!
I think it would be cool if BT had 6+ FNP instead of Oath of Moment to reflect their divergence from the Codex Astartes, then each vow could be balanced a bit better. I've mostly played with Gladius because it suits my collection but it makes sense to me. In the one tournament I took R. Crusaders with I took Emperor's Honor every time. Though I did have to play lots of knights.
Excited for 10th and this weekend! Have fun out there yall
Three hours of Brad and Eric?! What a treat! I was listening at work but I had to save myself the latter half so I can truly appreciate it while I do some painting!
Already strapped in for the long haul with this one.
Would be interested to know opinions regarding the Necron/Tyranid/SpaceMarine Combat Patrol disappointment.
surprised you didn't comment on how grey knights lost the use of the different nemesis weapons and they all got amalgamated into one profile
While the loss of hammers is sad, at least they're actually pretty good all rounders and not nerfed into oblivion like heirloom weapons
One thing about Thousand Sons: they finally made Tzaangors kind of do something productive. If any are on an objective, they farm a Cabal point on a 4+. It's not the best, but if you're got Tzaangors collecting dust on your shelf (or, more likely, in your Pile of Shame), it might inspire you to run one or two units in games. If only to make up for the low number of usable Psyker datasheets.
Going to the other side of the aisle, though, Jesus Christ GW did Death Guard dirty. Them and AdMech. Holy shit.
I appreciate your kind words about Harlequins. I’d honestly be pretty cool with a separate Aeldari Minoris (or some similarly named) minor Aeldari codex. Craftworlds have always been pretty bland to me, there are stuff I like in there, aspect warriors, and wraiths being those. But I really just think they should roll a bunch of minor Aeldari stuff into a minor codex provided each still has an army rule. This could include Harlequins, Ynnari, Corsairs, and maybe even some Exodite models riding Dinos if we’re feeling spicy.
As for the 4 more Harlequin units they could add, there’s actually quite a lot I think.
-Mimes are real and exist in lore, these can be your battleline objective holders
-master mines are also real in lore and they could be a designated leader for mines, give them some obsec bonus or something
-wraiths of some description (my personal name for them now is marionettes), probably some Harlequin flavored wraithblades
-Harlequin Wraithlord, which again, existed in lore at some point. If you look up Harlequin Wraithlord rogue trader, it is possibly one of the most cursed 40k things I’ve ever seen, right below the great clean one.
Oh surely it's not that-- wow, that's cursed.
I discovered this channel a couple of days ago (yes, 10th edition is the reason) and just wanted to say it's excellent. I come from AoS (I was a proper old timey 40k player, but 9th never really tempted me) and there are several really good AoS related channels that I watch, but I've found most 40k ones... not to my taste. Having binge watched most of your videos, and then found my way to your non-video podcasts, I can safely say that's not the case here. This is exactly the sort of content I am looking for.
1:31:32 oh my god, you guys have not seen the T'au discorse lol. We are in flames about whether or not you can conga line observers lol
Spot on with your comment on "I enjoy adjusting a list for 10 hours, but I have to put my personal feelings aside". It's always been apart of Games Workshop games, but it doesn't help accessibility and never has. I used to pour over 2nd edition rulebooks during school lessons and out play my opponents because they didn't know all the tricks and minutia of the lists and rules. It doesn't make for a good fun game experience. 8th finally shook that up and AoS and 10th really turn it on its head. Here is to the future of list building.
2:43:00 actually it is not from AoS but from "good old" 7th edition, where we had squad of tzeench screamers with 2++ buffed by rerolls of 1
Tau RAW things: you can daisy chain your FTGG because a unit that has been guided is not "observing", so if you have 6 units, you can have 5 of them bs3+.
Second, gun drones have a very important niche. They are assault. This means any unit that takes a gun drone can perform markerlights after advancing because it is "eligible to shoot" because there is an assault gun in the unit. This comes in huge for things like fire warriors which natively have the markerligjt keyword.
came here to say the same thing about the gundrone! We lost assault on 99% of our weapons so this is the only way to advance and mark without a marker drone.
But also the ghostkeel doesnt have nearly enough damage output rn to be broken, its very good, not broken. Its just a weird kind of distraction carnifex. What is broken is how mediocre the riptide is.
Wow this is actual podcast length now
I swear getting space marine sand painting them black gets your 5 different army's. Black templars, iron hands, dark angels ravenwing, deathwatch and normal space marines.
I come back to this video all the time just to see how much has changed in the community this edition. Just today this helped me through assembling a Megatrakk Scrapjet at work. Thanks!
I will say that the tzaangor being able to generate some cabal points as backline objective holders is nice to have. Also the tsons cultist rule is really funny, literally born to die
As a black Templar player Brad why do you hate us love y’all tho
He hate us 'cause he ain't us.
@@KameSennin4209 probably
Worry not, Brothers. No one hates better than we do. ;)
Memes, mostly.
On the one hand, I'm glad that my CSM army can still ally in daemon units for flavor. On the other hand, those units will effectively not have an army rule, will not have a detachment rule, and will not have access to detachment strategems, but you still pay points for them as if they did.
I mean, I'll take it over getting 5th editioned again, but it could be a lot better.
The euphoria of Harlequins being mentioned, even a little bit... I cry at it, for it is too beautiful for me
Heirloom weapons are bullshit. It makes sense for the axe, maul, and sword; but not for the thunder hammer and lightning claws.
Edit: 27:57 Brad, they took away the thunder hammers.
Not from Death Company sadly, hopefully this will be corrected soon.
@@thepoorhammerpodcast I was thinking about van-vets, since they still had to pay for all their wargear in 9th. They're aren't any BA players in my circle, so I don't know wether or not death company had to pay for their thunder hammers.
Clarification: In the Imperial Knights army rules the Thunderstomp stratagem clearly says that "all melee weapons equipped by your model have the [DEVASTATING WOUNDS] ability." so it works on more than feet. So all those 18 attacks from a Gallant's chainsword sweep get Devastating Wounds. For 1 CP that is spicy.
Grey knight army rule - great!
But theres a fly in the ointment. They're going to have pretty big issues with vehicles and maybe some monsters imo.
GMDK with a full rerolls to hit, wound, and damage on a hammer with devastating wounds for 1cp seems like a good answer
@petermccall1185 What happens when you screen those out and focus fire them? You can only have 3 of them so once those are taken down its going to be a bad time.
Entertaining as always. Props to the editor, if you hadn't said it had been edited I would have thought it wasn't. Nice & clean.
I think the whole making 40k into a retheme AOS is a terrible ideal.
The issue is that 2nd ed AoS and beyond is a really good system and fixes a lot of the issues in balancing, approachability, list building, codex creep, bloat, etc that GW has struggled with for nearly 2 decades... but AoS was also built from thr ground up. GW haphazaedly forcing an AoS style system into 40k doesn't work, especially since they took some of the dumbed-down unit/rules approach without the fun army special rules and crazy unit abilities/tactics that AoS uses to make up for it.
@@iannordin5250 There also the issue that if they make 40k into AoS with just a different them then the two games will be competing against each other.
The whole all wargear cost the same is a bad system. Worse depending more one army and detachment rules to bring fluff to the rule is also bad.
I was wondering what to do with my afternoon... these hot takes are gonna be exactly what i needed to entertain myself!! Thanks for all the hard work guys, love your stuff
A note for the Tau gun drones. Their only real utility they provide is giving a model (and the unit) assault so that they are eligible to shoot after advancing. While the damage output is trash, this allows them to do actions or to act as observers for other units, which the latter is super nice
Listened to the spotify version, im glad you understand your irrational hate for black templars is a hot take. Theyre not my favorite faction in the world but they are absolutely not garbage, they are one of the best chapters out there lore wise and model wise. Also yeah death guard RIP we got done absolutely dirty this edition
To be fair 58:20, the swords have pistol. Meaning you will be shooting in melee, effectively doubling their damage
Killchoppa on beastbosses is *insane* when they got all those anti keywords in melee
Special shout out to Mists of Deimos for being a silver bullet against melee armies. Oh, what's that? You got within 9" to charge me? Excuse me while I simply pick up the thing you were going to charge and put it in deep strike, thus leaving your scary melee unit twiddling its thumbs for an entire round. Have fun!
Yeah Grey Knights are obnoxious as hell and I'm actually glad to have them now (coincidentally, I happen to have the same armies as Eric... just with my main and secondary reversed). I pulled them off the shelf for some initial games of 10th and they're so fun.
DG fans would be ok with DG going from a tough, grindy army to a debuff army if our debuffs were actually good.
No, no we wouldn't be.
I didn't go Death Guard to be debuffy or killy, I went Death Guard to be a tough grindy army...
Because... you know... they WERE the tough grindy army since they were introduced.
3 hours of Poorhammer? Fuck yes. Time to hit the Iron Church to my boys.
I needed something to listen too while I paint my Necrons, thank you guys!
@Poorhammer I get your frustration with the LOC & Kairos only having a single "spell" (i'm also not a fan of turning psychic spells into just a gun) but the chickens are 230 (255 with enhancement) and 285 respectively and a unit of Pink Horrors joined by a changecaster and you have a solid castle going on and all that for 745 points. Also the Tzeentch Soul Grinders get a gun with D3 shots Blast S12 AP2 d6+2 damage. So i don't think it's all doom and gloom for mono-tzeentch.
Lol I'm actually having my brother print two soul grinders this week. They might be done by the time I go over his house Saturday. Mono Tzeentch will be fine power wise, my problem is entirely in the design and lack of "magic" feeling.
I kinda disagree with the votann comment about bringing bigger units -- our army rule procs when a unit is destroyed, but we don't have much in the way of expendable enough chaff to leverage it. I think part of the reason that Sagitaur are priced a little steep is that, if nothing else, you can use them to split some warriors, rush five guys with bolters or whatever up the board and force the opponent to kill em and put a token on themselves, while the other five warriors with the fancy guns stick with a leader and make use of that token. If anything I wish you could bring warriors in units of five and skip the effort (and the overpriced car lol)
I hope theres some positivity and optimism in here. Which is ironic because I am not optimistic about these hot takes lmao
I think we both like the edition overall, our gripes have been the same since the original reveal, if anything several of them have been put to rest. All 10th needs at this point is a round of FAQs and a balance pass and it'll be a fun 3 years.
I've put together a 8 model list for Tsons, that is removing 4000-5000 pts of anything but Eldar by Turns 3 and 4. Magnus, 3 Vortex Beasts, 3 Daemon Princes, 1 Knight Tyrant. Nothings killed more than 3 models, nothing lasts passed Turn 4. This isn't a joke. I'm not trolling. Synergies along with the pts being so low on those various units, leads to games that are horribly unbalanced.
Yesterday I was talking with the patrons about list ideas, and while I didn't go as far as you did, I had a similar build with only 2 beasts and replacing the tyrant with everything I could to hit ~17 CaPs with Arhiman etc. I think it's a shockingly solid list even if more broken ones end up found.
Found the list:
Magnus, Ahriman, Sorce with Scrolls, 2x5 rubrics for each leader to lead, 3 DPs with wings, one with Forbidden Lore one with Arcane Vortex, 2 MVBs, and Kairos Fateweaver souped in. It's a LOT of possible damage output on big tanky bodies with just enough point holding power to not feel dumb to do.
@@thepoorhammerpodcast OMG someone finally took me seriously! I have been screaming for days now, I play everyday, and Tsons are so above and beyond everyone else, we're putting money down on our next games, to see who can take 4k pts and beat this 2k pt army. We started letting the other players not tally CP and just use ANY stratagem they want. I'm still undefeated lol
Could you post the full list?
@@Mag_ladroth That IS the list. This is why I've been screaming. "Holy crap look what 8 models can do!" lol Magnus, 3 Vortex Beasts, 1 Daemon Prince without wings, 2 Daemon Princes with Wings, a Knight Tyrant with the Harpoon and Flamer
@@Tinytraveler What upgrades did you use?
1000% this. "We should all be able to play the game at the same time." This is a giant lesson I wish I could impart to game designers.
I’m a Black Templars player and I’m absolutely loving it, I did like 55 chainsword attacks rerolling hits cause grimmy boy is running along, sustained hits 1 and lethal hits from vow and stratagem. I completely waffle stomped a 20 man unit of necron warriors and a couple of characters with them and some power fists
death watch and imperium agents combined is such a good idea!
Gosh dang why they gotta roast my Craftworlds like that 😢 I love their aesthetic and lore. Warrior monks and seers that look into fate itself and have to try to big brain everybody because they don't have the bodies not to
Granted there's not much writing for them (that's very good, anyways) but still. The aeldari are such a cool faction. I haven't come across anyone saying they are boring before. People outright dislike them a lot lol but don't necessarily think they're boring 😓
Ah, okay I just got to the Votann section. I think I get the criticism more now lol they do follow a lot of classic elf cliches 🤷♂️
@@psychone8064I refuse to have craftworlds criticized for being cliche by a drukhari player!
Listening to your rant about the Drukhari detachment, I have a feeling that you don't get them very well. Their whole thing is that they all hate one another, but they have to work together to survive because none of the branches have the resources to succeed on their own, at least not without investing everything they have, which is a huge risk and not very practical for regular slave raids. They even have a strict "no backstabbing in realspace, ever" rule that they follow zealously. The survival of their entire species is on the line in these raids, and it's enough to force them into line. So yes, it makes absolute sense for them to have a detachment emphasizing the aspect of the army that has been at the forefront since 5th edition, or even earlier.
Feel like you guys were waaay too optimistic on GK. Their army ability is great, but does not balance out the near complete loss of all psychic from their all-psychic army, their complete loss of all anti-armor weapons for infantry and extreme weapon nerfs for Dreadknights, and their cataclysmic points increases that make infantry units costed close to Custodes and Dreadknights costed close to Imperial Knights. After Adeptus Mechanicus, Deathguard, and Votann, GK look to be among the weakest armies in 10th.
You guys are so awesome! I love the aside at the beginning about everyone’s neigh saying is all conjecture. You always represent the average fan so truthfully, thanks!
This is weird, but this episode was great to listen to because both Brad and Eric seemed to be in such a good, relaxed mood. Made the entire listening experience really enjoyable and engaging.
Every time Brad rags on Black Templars, I, as a BT player, bathe in his sodium-rich chaos scum rage.
If they're gonna force Harlequins into Eldari, I think they should redo things where there's only a single Imperium faction and set of rules for Space Marines, Sisters, Ad Mech, Knights, Custodes, Gaurd, Death Watch, etc.and just delete one of them every edition.
My deathguard eyes are crying tears of blood but I can cling to tyranids since this edition handed me the rest of my army so easily
I got in my first game of 10th a few days ago and I was impressed by how cool the psychic blast from the Zoanthropes was. It wasn't just another ranged weapon profile as I feared because it was so unlike the other weapon profiles.
You forgot the one big problem with the Votann army rule... the only use you will ever get out of it is from the detachment rule(only way to get them without losing a unit), and even then it's not going to help you come back when almost every army just laughs at your pea shooters.
Thank you for making my work day more bearable!
As someone who really likes the flavor for Ynnari, it just being Craftworlds but soup in Drukhari, I wish there was more to it. I wish we had more than three data sheets that were unique to us.
I suspect the ynnari models didn't sell how they hoped so they became a dead end. There's lots of that across all their games to some extent, trying something and keeping it around purely because they still need to get back the investment in tooling costs etc, as soon as they hit that though they can easily just quietly forget they ever existed.
3 hours??? You absolute legends.
It's not going to do anyone any good for at least a year, but my hope is that the paring back of psychic complexity is to make space for a 40k equivalent to AoS' Endless Spells. I don't think I'd want it available across the board, but a lot of the factions that are coming in a underweight here match where I think it would fit best. There needs to be another tier of specialization above what we have to sell the play fantasy of Tzeench, Nurgle, and Adeptas Sororitas in particular. I'd actually probably lump Necrons in there too, but I don't think that's obviously missing the way the others are.
Saying Headwoppa's Killchoppa is underwhelming is a mistake. Nob on Smasha Squig is more killy than a primarch with that enhancement.
Bolter Discipline in a vacuum seems 'eh'. But if you put it on a Lieutenant (who already grants [Lethal Hits]) then get re-rolls either with Oath of Moment or a unit that has re-roll hits anyway... suddenly it becomes a very substantial damage increase in Devastator Doctrine. Which you can do every turn with Adaptive Strategy if you want to. It's actually the enhancement that tickles my Johnny side the most.
Add an apothecary and you have one scary hellblaster squad, or crit fishing sterguard squad.
Thanks for your thoughts fellas, I picked up a death guard boarding patrol thinking this edition might show 'em some love. Now I don't feel as bad that it's sitting on top of my 20 year old pile of shame. x) Back to Thousand sons and off to print some helbrutes! Gotta fire up those demonic 3d printers for another run it seems.
Managed to finish a squad of intercessors as I listened to this and it’s great to hear all about the different factions this edition, hats off to the editor for cutting it all together anyway keep up the good work guys
The most frustrating things with the Death Guard Army Rule is the lack of complexity in effects (compared to other Chaos factions) and the lack of synergy with the other pseudo-Army Rule we got in Plague weapons with Lethal Hits. I wont rant into why these dont obviously gel but I can make DG much better with 2 changes, one to the Army and one to the Detachment:
Army: The aura effect works as is and keeps the -1T but now we add 2 more bullet points = 1st is that any weapon attacks that have Lethal Hits made by Death Guard units to enemies in the aura trigger on a 5+ and 2nd is Death Guard units have a 5 or 6+ Feel No Pain against any attacks made by enemy units that are in the aura.
Detachment: the Infection part of ability that generates the aura is permanent, so it creates an area that applies the new debuffs above to enemies trying to take that objective.
Now i dont know how strong those changes might be but i think it keeps the new direction of DG as CQC fighters but gives DG players that identity we want as hard to kill and infectious marines
Praise the editor for doing a great job.
That inquisition idea could work, and you could get around the grey knights by having some of thier datasheets be under "other datasheets" similar to how csm can take rubrics, zerkers, plague marines, and noise marines, theyre just not battleline in a csm army.
Used this video to start building my Leviathan box. You guys are awesome, thanks for putting together this fun tour of 10th Edition
Just finished the video, amazing work!
34:05 Screw you, Black Templars go back to 3rd as the poster boys, and they've had their own codex going back to 4th. I also really disagree with the take that choosing the vows before battle is a bad system. The Anti Psyker pick, for example, is so specialized that it is worthless against a non Psyker army, and so it was never brought in 9th, along with all the other vows, because 5+ invlun was always the one to choose. If you have issues with it as a Psyker player, which you might being the type of filthy Thousand Sons player, that made me wait 20 mins per psychic phase in last edition, you should advocate the nerfing of the anti Psyker vow, not essentially banning the vow by making it a list building pick no one will pick.
I love you guys. Legit the first warhammer podcast that just vibes with me. Perfect for hobbying while I listen. Please keep on keeping on!
the one admech list i found was a knight, 9 ironstriders and cawl, 10 rangers and some riders
Watching this a month later as an ork player. I love my Gorkanaut! It literally one shotted my brothers mortarian in a charge, no waagh. Love the Gork!
The art and fluff are integral to the game, obviously. The idea that WH40K can be effetely reduced to crunch for the sake of "competition" is dubious at best. EDIT: However, there is nothing wrong with (and even something inherently useful) about direct rules that are easy to access.
They were saying that the index didn't need all that fluff and all the fluff could be moved to the codex
On the subject of Imperial Agents:
I think the Vindicare has a home in Knights as a character sniper to proc Lay Low the Tyrant. It also was a lower points model to allow me to upgrade one of my armigers from last edition to a Valiant. It also works from a lore perspective if you paint a helvrin like Jester from Assassinorum Kingmaker.