CALLING OUT DANNY at GR RESEARCH
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ก.พ. 2022
- I watched the video Danny from the GR Research channel released last week and I felt compelled to respond. So here it is, in a rather simple and raw form.
Link to the GR Research video that inspired me: • CALLING OUT the REVIEW...
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Hey Dave,
Nice to meet you (via TH-cam) and thanks for watching. I liked your video and feedback.
Let me just clarify a few things. Regarding sending our product our for review. We have had our product reviewed by every magazine out there online and in print, and we've won awards from all of them. So I have never had any issue with sending out our products.
I also have no issue with a reviewer selling gear after a review of they disclose that they have made arrangements to keep the gear in exchange for the review. Some are doing that and some are not disclosing that. My recommendation to them is that doing that will hurt their credibility. If they are being paid for the review they are seen more as a paid advertiser than a reviewer. I am also not buying reviews. Doing that doesn't look good for the manufacturer either.
The invitation to come was not to review our gear in our place only. We even said they could bring their own gear. It is just to come, listen, and learn. No reviews are required or asked for. My contention isn't that just our gear should be reviewed with quality gear and a dedicated or optimized room. My contention is the same for ALL gear being reviewed.
Sure everyone is blown away from our system, but one of the things they leave with (every time) is a desire and motivation to step up their room, their speaker placement, and gear. I want to make their systems better whether they use our gear or not.
And when you do pass through my way, let me know. You'd be welcome to visit.
Nicely said. Kudos to you for offering a reasoned and non-defensive response. I see both sides. I can see where people might have been put off by some of the things you said as “elitist”, but if they really watched the video, I think it’s pretty clear that you were sincere in your desire to further the cause of hi-FI, not just promote your business.
It’s a brave new world and I think there’s a lot of risk that, as these TH-cam reviewers replace the print medium, unless there is a concerted effort to disclose the business relationship between manufacturer and reviewer, great harm could be done to hifi enthusiasts, audiophiles, and the audio community writ large.
It has been years since I last visited Texas, but if I ever get the opportunity I'd like to see and hear what you did to achieve the best possible listening experience, that is a science, and also an art in its own right.
Thanks for your response, Danny. I really wasn’t expecting you to comment, but I appreciate that you did. I didn’t realize just how controversial a figure you are until now!
You have brilliantly found your niche in the cutthroat world of home audio, and your competitive nature keeps the fires burning hot. But I think as Ron predicted and tried to temper, your strongly stated opinions would elicit some interesting reactions. I watched it a couple of times (it’s long, man), I left a brief comment, then my brain started going…and I made a video.
As I said in the video, the whole product reviewer/reviewee relationship has been sketchy since forever. I don’t see a solution…Should there be reviewing laws in place?
Reviewing hifi gear can be fun, but coming up with original combinations of adjectives to describe sound is the hardest part. You are clever by avoiding all that nonsense and sticking to graphs and measurements.
As Oscar Wilde famously said, “There is only one thing in life worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about.”
Cheers
@@DG-ie5ip why ? If you're so hell bend on controlling content. Start your own channel
@@DG-ie5ip why should he take down his video?
Dave, you displayed an awareness of yourself in a humble tone that was refreshing. At the same time, you challenged Danny's disconnect between listening in a dedicated, treated room and then listening, (if you are fortunate to have a dedicated room), in your space at home. You did this and then more importantly you ended your video in a show of unity which supports Danny's primary aim . Exceptionally well done, you are a prince of a man.
I love your videos. It seems to me that you give honest personal reviews and that is more important than high production value. And the fact that not all of your content is new and the next great thing. I rarely buy new so I like that. Keep up the good work.
That guy Danny ..... Does he really know what goes into mass production of speakers, let me tell you all ....COST....
It's choice to buy any speaker and enjoy the sound of music .
Let's see Danny make speakers for the masses instead of slating them .. You do the industry a disservice ..
Top notch calling out ...
Hey Dave.!!! First and I always do this with people I enjoy their work. I say thank you!!!! Thanks buddy I really enjoy all of your work. You have a bit of humbleness and humanity, the kind of humanity that I miss. I find you a breath of fresh air and open-mindedness. I subscribe to pretty much almost anyone I can think of as far as audio even languages I don't speak. You can actually tell a lot without even knowing someone's language. Please keep up the great work and thank you I so appreciate it!!! Please take care of your health and your family BigErik
Danny wants to not only fix speakers but to fix reviewers.
Rotf!!
I truly enjoy your down to earth video reviews. You are my favorite audio reviewer.
Nice job Dave... Very eloquently put! I saw Danny's video yesterday and was curious about reactions in the community. Big fan of.your channel and reaching out to let you know how much I've been enjoying the content, especially the videos on vintage gear. I recently acquired a sweet Dual 1229 tt (for free!) which Ive been absolutely loving. I remember you mentioning you lived in NJ. Whereabouts? Keep up the good work Dave.
This was a great response to Danny. As much as Ron and Danny tried to convey it wasn't an attack - the arrogance in that room was deafening. Everything you stated was exactly what I was thinking throughout that video.
Great video! I think Danny and his strong personality is great! Having GR Reserch help me modify my speakers was the most fun I have had in audio. And the results were well worth the efforts and cost. I look forward to doing it again in the future. There is something about knowing your speakers are better than stock and at there best. I think Danny does have allot of knowledge to share and hope that some TH-cam ers take him up on his offer. I think it would make some fantastic content. 👍🏻🔈
Don’t worry Dave, production quality never really bothered me cos I tend to listen more than watch videos about audio equipment while going about the daily chores. I grew up in the generation where live sports events were covered on the radio. And I do kind of miss those days. The old Telefunken Opus valve radio may be long gone, but some of the commentary styles are ingrained in my old but still appreciative memories of those days.
Hi Dave. I enjoy your channel. I just ready Danny's reply. This exchange is a good example why we need to speak to each other more than we communicate through social media as social medial communication can create much miscommunication. I believe Danny and you will have a great face to face chat when you finally get to meet. Cheers! George
well said! love your channel, and greetings from Canada...humility goes a long long way on our social media platforms
I don't care how speakers sound in the listening room of a manufacturor, I care how well they match my equipment and listening environment :-)
As does everyone else. Simply listening To speakers in a room specially set up for them is not how you buy speakers.
@@mrlondellsgroovymovies maybe I'm just very lucky.. but last time I bought new speakers, a local audio shop insisted on coming over to my place with the speakers I was interested in, install them, help with proper positioning, and give advice about accoustic treatment of the room (basic advice, if I want something more, they can send someone over, but that will come at a cost).
They insisted on that with the same argument you and me are making here... Our listening room does not tell you how it will work for you.
Sure, I'm not buying 'low end' equipment, but not exceptionally expensive things either (in this particular case, it was a set of KEF R5 speakers)
@@c128stuff I had a similar experience. 30 years ago my mother and I went to listen to martin Logan quest at Rhapsody in Hilversum the Netherlands. I liked the sound but they were outside my budget, they said we have a pair of acoustat x within my means and a date was set, they came, set them up to perfection and it sounded great. Just before leaving they told me if I regretted the buy within a month to call and they would pick them up for a full refund.
My mother bought some bookshelf speakers but didn't have stands, they loaned her a pair and when she liked them and inquired about the cost they sold them for a dime on the dollar, because of demo.
That is what separates the true enthousiast audiophile shop from those who shove boxes out the door asap.
A decade later I visited again, they still knew who I was and what I bought. Great people
@@annebokma4637 "Rhapsody".. I remember them (I went to school in Hilversum).
Now when you are in the market for decent electrostats, its not that uncommon to get them installed including some consultancy on placement and room treatment, its a bit uncommon in the approx 1k per speaker segment tho (unless warranted still by your overall spending).
The shop I bought those speakers from is run by people who formerly worked at RAF Hilversum and Amsterdam.
@@c128stuff true, if you buy new, those acoustat x were second hand. I never experienced that level of service for second hand ever again. The were 3,5k (included tube power amps) but those were before euro so divide by 2. Still miss those, seen a pair online for 2,5k euro so was a good investment. 😂
This is one of the better response videos on this topic, well done. Room acoustics are important, but they are one of many factors, and part of the process of evaluating what equipment to buy is understanding your space, it’s strengths and limitations, and what can work in that space. Some gear is more flexible, some gear is very picky about room and placement, and good reviewers point this out. Most of us work around the spaces we have, and yet still tweak their systems because hifi has to live alongside us. If one speaker can improve a system in one particular environment, where the other speaker needs a ton of acoustic treatment and correction to make an improvement in the same system, I would think consumers would like to know that.
None of my friends who love stereo have any sound treatment other than the furniture in the room. I bet you the majority of the people who are into stereo listen to their hifi the way i do. Good designers and reviewers should design and review with untreated rooms in mind. Love your response to Danny
Your comment is akin to saying I bought a Ferrari just to use it for grocery shopping.
Never being able to hear my speakers (I paid good money for) sound their very best, because I failed to grasp (The Fact) that the room is the #1 most important element of any sound system. Learn something about room treatments and lead your group of friends to the next level. Just because you all don't get it yet...is no reason to believe you must be right.
If you are serious about audio, you never stop looking for ways to improve your audio/home theater experience. My journey has led me to my next upgrade...speaker cables.
Yes, they do matter, before you ask. Otherwise you can just go to wallmart and pick out speakers that will go with your décor, and call it a day. Most of us here, are here for very different reasons.
@@Bigirondoug Your comment is akin to saying that a souped-up Toyota is the same as a Ferrari.
@@lexicon612 This is an entirely different audience. Some of us just want gear that will sound good without all of that fuss and added expense. Not everyone is obsessing over every intricate detail in the music. Perhaps GR Research is saying that their products aren't for everyone either, which I doubt they would ever come right out and say. Not sending their products to "imperfect" reviewers is basically insulting to many of their current and future customers.
@@vannk73 #1 Danny is the kind of guy that will open up a pair of Revel bookshelf speakers ($4000.00 msrp) and expose the fact that Revel spent only 18.00 in crossover parts. He is the ultimate bang for the buck guy. Sells equipment that blows away anything in their respective price categories. He should be your mentor not someone you criticize. Curtains, furniture etc. are all room treatments (no extra monies needed) Arranged properly to minimize reflections is accomplishing room treatment for free. Doesn't have to be obsessive, or costly...you just have to give a shit. Clearly you do. Your here. If (the best) entry level gear is your only goal...why are you really here?
No one here buys their audio equipment from wall mart. Much as you would like to believe that.
After watching this video , Im a new follower of your channel ,thank you for the clarity ,honesty and down to earth view of the reviewing art, so now on you have a new fan and follower....
Your comments are greatly appreciated. Thanks
Definitely an interesting take and I agree 100%! It’s honestly a great experience getting to hear different speakers and the differences between them. A lot of people forget there’s passion involved. As far as for reviewers reviewing the speakers in untreated or lightly treated listening spaces, that’s how most people have their rooms and very few actually have a perfect room with zero nulls or reflection issues and imo reviewing a speaker in a more neutral room brings the speakers close to the buyer.
And Honestly the “Upgrades” Danny sells, completely changes the sound signature of the speakers taking away what makes each speaker special and it’s like a slap in the face to the designer when you change the sound signature that significantly,
No hard feelings towards anyone but I like my speakers to have their differences.
Just my two cents, Happy listening and great video!
✅🍿
My god, what an amazingly mature and professional video, many need to watch and learn from your soft skills.
I just subscribed to this Chanel based on this video.. what a great comeback for ordinary reviewers and Hi Fi enthusiasts..
Well said Mr. Cutter.
Who is your favorite reviewer and why? I think mine is Sean. A big part of that is that he puts the product into perspective. If you like bright forward sound you are going to like this piece, if you value a wide and deep sound stage, this is probably not your first choice. Also not pretentious, and low key. Also great product selections. At first, thought cheapaudioman was a joke but have come to respect him. Also great selection of products.
Boy! Danny seems to have managed to insult everyone in the HiFi review business.
Danny is a legend in his own mind.
Well spoken. You are a gentleman and that is why I look forward to your postings.
Love this video. You had me cracking up. You got yourself a new subscriber.
I’ve bought speaker mods from GR and ended up selling the speakers cuz they no longer had the house sound of the manufacturer. So if someone thinks changing the house sound of the speakers they have is what they want I’d say go for it. Otherwise you’re gunna ruin the sound the manufacturer intended for its product. I thought the GR upgrade would simply make the speaker sound better yet keep the house sound. Guess I was a little naive in thinking that.
I’m done modding, just gunna buy the house sound I like. Besides flat response just sounds terrible imho.
Rooms and ears aren't flat. Even bose knew this in 1969.
@@scottlowell493
Ain’t that the truth. I’ve really gone off the reservation in buying an old school 10 band eq and managed to tame a serious bass peak associated with my room. System never sounded better! But don’t tell anyone I’m using an analogue 10 band eq!!😂
Nice job, very well said! Excellent even keeled response to Danny’s video. Honestly, don’t understand why it triggered so many people. Was it the most diplomatically done opinion piece ever? No. Was it meant to denigrate certain people? I don’t think so. Danny seems like a good guy to me. He does make some very good points.
I WAS mean to denigrate some people. In fact shots were fired at very specific people. He didn't say the names, he just made sure that if you've been in this community you know who he was speaking of.
I can kind of see both sides of the argument and in reality I think Danny called out the likes of Andrew Robinson for real, only he disguised it as compliment as not to cause a backlash among the butt hurt fan boys. I have seen videos of these top tier (only by TH-cam matrix) reviewers that are truly cringe-worthy when it comes to their technical and listening skills. So when I see the likes of Andrew showering a speaker model with praise and then subsequently I see Danny showing how bad they measure and how bad they are made, I tend to believe Danny to be honest. I can understand why he says "you are not ready".
As a consequence I am enjoying these kinds of small channels like yours much more. A bit more rough at the edges but still much more honest and not just constantly chasing the latest craze that will blow over in just months, or shamelessly introducing the latest Pro-Ject turntable that was first made by Dual in the early 80's. And maybe you should just buy an upgrade kit from GR research for your KEF speakers. I think it will bring value to your channel and I am looking forward to see your experiences with that.
I agree 100%. Andrew does not know what good sound is, and he really needs someone to teach him
@@joshua43214 He has his wife now, sharing her insight and everything is peachy...
@@Yiannis2112 Andrew does his flowery speech and then he turns to Kristi... "It sounds like crap". LMAO! I love Kristi!
Hey Dave! Congrats! you are about to hit 10k subscribers!
Andrew Robinson did a review on a speaker and when it came time for Kristi's comment, she said at least CR Research hasn't told us what was wrong with the speaker. My coffee blew all over my screen!
Maybe that's why Danny tried to call him out.
@@jman8368 Danny is a God of speakers. I don't know why every speaker maker doesn't have him designing their speakers.
I find it far more effective and fun to use a graphic equalizer to remedy my speaker issues. Not enough at 1500 herz give it a nudge up. To bright at the top bump it down a touch.
My speakers don't need a flat response in your lab. I prefer my flavor of distortion over his.
I think you are missing out on a lot of purity. As fun as equalizers are, they add a lot of artifacts, and take away from the realism of the music.
The most off putting thing about, Danny's content is that all according to him, all speaker designers get it wrong all of the time. They must sure be a dumb bunch!
To Big Blue; Yeah, these other designers must all be certifiable idiots!!!! Man, what poor Danny has to persevere with modding their speakers, I tell ya! Cheesy parts and all. Poor dude! 😉😁
@@robinkleinsteuber5217 true!!
There are a small handful that he determined to be good as they were. Notable is the fact that he only offers the service of examining speakers. The owners of these speakers are the ones sending them in for modification. The owners are not satisfied with the way they are. Danny then does the examination and highlights what could be done better.
But he is so clever...he can fix all those mistakes just for a few hundreds dollars 💰💰💰💰💰
@@alferro3149 The guy is a speaker designer. He better know how to do this for a few hundred bucks! In some cases he has determined that it's just not worth the trouble to even try. In those cases he suggests just buying another pair of speakers. And you've got to remember, he is adding hundreds of dollars to a speaker that was designed to meet a price point. A pair of speakers manufactured to meet a $1,000 retail price would have to raise its price substantially if it were to use higher parts quality. Now, as to why these companies choose to sell a speaker with their measurements, that's a whole nother topic.
Low production but full of heart. Great video, and I agree most people not just your viewers but also Danny's customers won't have ideal dedicated listening rooms.
Newsflash: the early 1990s are over and gone, gone, gone, and so too are the multiple high-end stereo shops in every urban area across the nation. When I moved here to Memphis, TN. in 1991, there were no less than 3 dedicated high-end dealers in town, plus two smaller specialty shops. Today, not nary a one of these places is still in business. Internet shopping is the only viable option around here unless we make the 3 hour drive to Nashville to visit their ONE high end audio store. As it is, TH-cam reviewers such as yourself and the ones you mentioned are VITAL. We simply can’t go to Underground Sound to audition KEFs, then take the 10 minute drive to Modern Music Audio to hear the B&Ws, and finally take the 3 block walk to Opus Audio to try out the Vandersteen’s. I think you get the point.
Keep up the good work because, thanks to home theater and other variables, those good ol’ stereo shops of yesteryear are mere nostalgia.
Completely agree. What I most like about your speech is your honesty and humbleness. Kepp it up!
Dave, you are truly a unique and refreshingly down home yet eloquent and knowledgeable presence on YT, and I LOVE your channel. Please don't change too much and become too much like all the others, because your channel is very enjoyable and different enough to stand out for the very reasons I mentioned.
Thank you. That’s a very nice comment! I’m doing my best to inform and entertain.
Danny, should take a TH-cam reviewer. Put him on his test bench. Measure his off axis frequency response. Measure his on axis frequency response. Measure his spectral decay. Tap his skull and rib cage to check for resonance. Then change the ‘cheesy’ binding posts for tube connectors. Ridicule the quality of the crossovers. Swap the electrolytic capacitors for pollycaps. Swap the ironcore inductors for air core inductors. Upgrade the ‘cheesy’ wiring and line the skull and rib cage with ‘no res’. Then, take those oh so crucial measurements again and show us how much smoother and linear they are. Then throw that TH-cam reviewer back at the TH-cam fraternity so that we can judge the improvements Danny has made.
I don't agree with some of Danny's methods or opinions but I do appreciate him disclosing the fact that many reviewers keep and ultimately sell the equipment that they review . I believe this practice to be entirely unethical and corrupts the reviewing process . I am sorry if many disagree but if the intent is to sell the component for top dollar it would be counter productive to give a negative review if the component was in fact mediocre . That being said , reviewers who sell components that they have reviewed are not to be trusted .
Well said 👍
Very well said! You hit on a lot of points that I was thinking as he was saying them! What good is a high end system in a mediocre room? I for one cannot afford such a room, nor do i have the room! I have however acquired some fantastic vintage gear over the years and have had many people say that it is the best sound they ever heard! I have long thought that Danny, while seemingly a good guy, has always tried to get all of us square pegs to fit into the round holes that he preaches are the only correct ones. I too would love to hear a set of his speakers, but i suspect i would be disappointed, because i don't subscribe to a flat sound. I prefer lively yet warm, so color my speakers audio Gods!!
Just because a product measures flat (accurately) doesn't mean it sounds flat. The measured response shows accuracy and not how it sounds. A speaker can measure flat and sound like it is playing through a wet rag or measure flat and be the most lively sounding speaker you've ever heard.
@@dannyrichie9743 that's true and I wasn't trying to be disrespectful at all and I do appreciate how you point out shortcomings from the high end market using subpar components in their equipment, but i do feel that we all hear differently and we all enjoy different sound, just like taste, no two people like all the same things.. To say that one way is best is merely opinion. I have good friends and we all have nice audio gear and we rarely agree on what sounds best... I am all for accurate sound, i am a proud owner of NS 1000m speakers.. I would love to hear your impressions on them. I nearly sold them a couple years ago because they sounded flat and lifeless. Then I moved them and teied a different amp Sansui BA 5000 and wow! What a difference! They arent going anywhere!!
Cheers Danny
Well done. The biggest problem with Danny is that he is *always* selling a product from his inventory. I like his content, but I have yet to bite. After all, a flat response is no guarantee of good sound. Some speaker manufacturers design for sound, rather than specs. If that was disallowed, there would be no tube gear
Good tube gear has also a flat response. You can not have huge spikes and holes in the response graph and still produce HiFi sound. The signature sound of good products is far more subtle thing.
@@hugobloemers4425 I was referring more to distortion levels, damping factor, etc. There are lots of specs. Some are overused or overemphasized
As ever, many things can be true at the same time.
I think Danny is a very smart, capable speaker designer.
I also feel he has these same qualities as a salesman.
I watch his videos because I am interested in what is inside these pricey speakers, as I am amazed that a particle board box, $100 worth of drivers and a $30 crossover sells for $4,000.
As for myself, as soon as a reviewer tells me that "this power cord will open up your soundstage and increase instrument separation audibly," or "these tube connectors make a real noticable difference," I'm out.
I agree 💯.Comes across that he was the first and last guy brains were given to
Danny Ritchie's source is "trust me bro." You need more?
Dave, I like your style, a Man's Man. And Danny's reply was very gentlemanly. I have no horse in this race, or dog in this fight, I enjoy watching all of you guys. I think I can speak for at least a few, we are adults and can make decisions based on both the reviewers opinions and Danny's know how in regards to speakers and measurements. I can see both sides of this coin, and realize too, that some speaker manufactures don't go by measurements alone.
That being said, this was an enjoyable video or rebuttal, it was good, and I subscribed. Thank you sir. ;-)
7:29 Danny is right and what he said doesn’t sound absurd at all.
Here is why; what’s the point of fine tuning a speaker if your room (wich is the real instrument here) sounds crap?
Tell me?..
For good audio what really matters is:
The room first 50%
Speakers 35%
Amp
Source
Wrong
Very well said!!!
Very well said my friend.
This is brilliant. Now I Have to watch the GR Research video. Great work Dave! 👏
Well said ! Made me a new sub of your channel ✊🏽
I agree with Danny and think that his remarks was actually an understatement of the industry. Of course he left out some small details. And yes I think that you also made some good points.
His videos are so cringe, I’ve never been able to finish a single GR video.
Anyone with any intelligence understands that NO ONE wants to give a product a bad review, mainly because these companies could then make you miserable for affecting their profit. A review is the reviewers opinion and little more. There are people who think the sound quality from your average alexa is "good enough" which leads me to believe the whole thing although not correct is highly subjective. Once you understand the big boys with lots have money are allowed by us to control the information we are allowed to receive, you start to look at these reviews quite differently! Do you honestly believe you would get the truth if it is going to affect the profit of any selfish human being? Personally, I'd give reviewers much more credit if they were to tell you they did not like the way something sounded even if it was only their opinion. My personal opinion, from my perspective, sound quality of decent equipment hasn't got that much better from the decent equipment from the 70's and 80's, it's better but not by much, performance, power consumption and power output have got better for the most part. Like the reviewers, my hearing bandwidth degrades with age, so I take it all with a pinch of salt so to speak.
Use your own ears, draw your own conclusions!
Hmm.. one of the 'big' channels also reviewing audio equipment, techmoan, has more than a few "I do not recommend" conclusions on reviewed products, and also quite a few mixed ones, including some big brand products.
Of course, his 'reviews' aim at usability, not at the technical details or at objective audio quality, and should be treated as such.
"My personal opinion, from my perspective, sound quality of decent equipment hasn't got that much better from the decent equipment from the 70's and 80's, it's better but not by much, performance, power consumption and power output have got better for the most part."
If you know where to look, you can get pretty amazing price/performance now which just wasn't possible in the 1980s unless you were building things yourself and had access to components at industrial/large quantity prices maybe.
But something else, much more influential changed. In the 1980s, an at least somewhat decent sound system was a fashionable thing to have, while we'd make do with a single simple speaker for 'video'. Nowadays, most people who have a 'serious' sound system have one primarily built to be used for movies and video, and usually also suitable for music, possibly even good at that.. while the typical 'sound only' solutions are bluetooth speakers, stereo if you are lucky, but often mono, or earbuds, and a phone.
Serious sound equipment primarily aimed at music has become a bit of a niche in the consumer world.
Well said. Thank you!
I haven't watched his video YET, but I did watch The Vinyl Attack talk about this same video. I like most people probably can't afford high end equipment so I do the best I can with what I have or can even begin to afford. I watch a lot of reviews here on YT or read online reviews and try to make educated decisions or guesses on what to buy. Honesty always wins!
YOU SIR ARE GOING TO HAVE A LONG LINE OF TRUE HONEST AUDIOPHILES LINING UP AT YOUR DOOR TO HIGH FIVE YOU! THANK YOU FOR ACCURATELY SPEAKING FOR ALL OF US REGARDING THAT RIDICULOUS VIDEO BY GR RESEARCH.
You sir can best be described as "a diamond in the rough". That is meant as a 100% compliment to you. I can fully understand what you are saying and you aren't wrong....BUT, I honestly believe that what Danny does is actually a service to all of us. I used to own and operate a small electronics repair shop. When I had to replace parts, I always bought the best my suppliers had to offer.
Never radio shack. The difference between cheap components and more spendy quality components is very often like night and day. That applies as well to the crossovers that are in VERY EXPENSIVE speakers. And it is my belief that there is NO EXCUSE for that, none at all. When you lay down 5k,(for example), for a set of speakers, they should have the best of components inside of them, don't you think?
And yes, there are HUGE differences in the quality of components such as a lowly resistor or capacitor that make an even larger difference in the end result. I believe that Danny is doing his best to EDUCATE-not denigrate. Are his kits spendy-yes. But overall, you are getting your monies worth ,imho. And here too, Danny is not FORCING anybody into buying his stuff, he just shows you the before, and after results of his expertise, that's it.
That’s what I tell my wife. Just a diamond in the rough! Thanks
Ohh found the Danny fanboy lol
@@MichelLinschoten Is that a problem for you?
@@MichelLinschoten Fanboy here too, Danny is doing a service for all of us, especially when dropping serious coin for speakers. It is nice to know that there is someone with the knowledge of this gear that shares it freely.
Parts do matter, be they in your dishwasher, your car or you speakers. Junk in, junk out, and more repairs down the road that would not be needed if a quality part were used in the first place. You learn these things after getting burned a few times.
@@MichelLinschoten really?
I like this guy. Subscribed!
I really like your content, having a mix of new and vintage I can relate. In general I like the quality and meaning of what is said or done way more then fancy production values. Some content is so perfect looking that it reminds me of barbie, all plastic and no heart or soul.
Keep up the good work, it is appreciated 👍
I could not agree more. You bring up great points.
You got a new subscriber and I unsubscribed from GR research. His dig on Shawn was the last straw for me.
Awesome Video
Very well done sir. The most thoughtful answer to this pseudo-controversy IMHO. Good news out of all this: I just discovered your channel so I'm going to check it out. As for Danny's video, let's just say he could use a self-awareness course or two and he'll be just fine!
i thought you said "if that is true, how the f**k could anyone possibly measure up" and almost choked on my coffee.
We’ll Done Dave…. Thank You.
I really enjoy watching Danny's you tube channel, being a Hifi Geek, I just love to see what goes into speakers and Danny seems to know his stuff and really explains things very well.
That said, I do often think if its that easy to make a great sounding flat response loudspeaker, why do the big speaker manufacturers keep getting it soo wrong!!! I feel the answer is in pre production live listening tests......just because the speaker has a flat response does not mean it is going to sound great for all music without sounding fatiguing.....I know they listen to their own products before marketing them....and I suspect that's when the final tweaking of crossovers begins. The human ear creates emotion.... its not an oscilloscope.
Price points dictate everything. Profitability trumps sound quality every time. 90% of compromises are in crossover components.
As I am a subscriber to the both of you gentlemen's channels. I would facetiously summarize that Point to Point is the only way to go, eh? Good old Canadian audio humour and spelling. Have a great day boyz. Love from Canada.💞🎛
Dave - Didn't know you existed. Now you got me as a subscriber and regular watcher.
Welcome aboard! Thanks very much. Dave
I just subbed, dude. You speak like you have a PhD.
Not all of us have the opportunity to have a perfect listening room. We have to live in the real word and have our equipment in less than perfect spaces. I have been an audio enthusiast since I was 17, I'm 63 now and know i have a wonderful sounding system. Dave thanks for calling out Danny for the audio snob that he is. Enjoyed this video
Sir, I will humbly admit- I thought your video was clickbait and decided to watch it to see something comical to some degree of making a partially true point, but while looking petty or ignorant in some manner or fashion, but I'm proud to say I was wrong. Not only was I completely mistaken, but you actually handled your response to GR Research in the upmost respectable manner and covered every point with delicacy but with pure thoroughness where needed and dead-on fairness in a kind manner. Much respect, and I can honestly say that, in no scenario, would I have handled that any better myself. In fact, this is the kind of video that should always be made when handling responding to a channel with criticism on just the fundamental aspect of true respectfulness in handling a conflict, alone. For that, you've more than earned a subscribe from me and I feel like it should be all of our duty to give credit and support where needed in the community when individuals like yourself do what's right when presenting their content which likely involves a more realistic or down-to-earth representation of the community as a whole, rather than many of the TH-cam personalities we look up to/support etc. Well done! I'm a big fan of the Cheapaudioman and his approach to HiFi on TH-cam and I'm confident than many of us in his fanbase as well as similar channels that evolved from your average relatable person who's also on their HiFi journey just like the viewer supporting their channel would appreciate as well. I hope to see some more great content and humble points of view from you in the future. Cheers!
PS - don't sweat production values so much. Steve Guttenburg, himself, doesn't present his channel in a way that looks like it could be a show you browse over to on Dish Network, yet many people, including myself, hold his thoughts/opinions to a much higher degree of consideration than we do with channels that possess that polished production value :)
Wow, that was one of the nicest comments I have ever received! I am humbled and very pleased that you will be joining me on this journey to audio enlightenment. Best regards, Dave at MOD.
I've never heard of Danny. I happened across his video by random. I am also not an "audiophile" by any means... Just like listening to music once in awhile.
After seeing a few of his videos I could tell he was a snake oil salesman. In the 4 videos of his I watched... not one had any audio clips. Maybe I clicked on the wrong 4 videos but I would think if one is touting some great sounding speakers. One would share a sound clip or two of them?
When I then searched his name that is when I saw a few videos of his rants about trolling and such. Then I knew my first impression was probably correct.
Good call, Dave. Unlike you, the man is totally lacking in humility. In my 50 years as an enthusiast, I’ve spoken to dozens of audio designers and manufacturers as well as importers, distributors and retailers. As a result of this intercourse, I have found myself unable to buy certain products or brands which I was considering because, in each case, the man behind the brand, product, etc. has been truly obnoxious, condescending and dismissive of my thoughts, feelings, likes and dislikes. I have somehow rendered myself unworthy as a potential customer and have gone elsewhere. In some cases, this has meant ignoring a proven, world-class piece of audio equipment for the wrong reasons. Fortunately, there are plenty of respectful and thoughtful people out there who also design, make and sell top-quality equipment.
Went through the trouble of buying and assembling his xls encore speakers a number of years ago. I was shocked at the awful sound. Wooly, bloated, muddy bass and overly polite (the tweeter was decent). I had a pair of $120 Athena speakers that blew it away. He focuses way too much on measurements.
He's has a right idea, and G-R certainly has the right to offer upgrades to existing designs with lower cost parts which in many cases do produce a lower quality output or flawed presentation especially if a customer is either bothered by an aspect of said output, or is looking for a different sounding component overall. What G-R doesn't tell the potential customers is that the speaker in question he's reviewing was made to sound exactly as it does (not as he says, "I don't know what they were thinking when they built this"), and isn't restricted for anyone's audition for better or worse. Speakers with flat curves are just that, flat. Nothing special, and usually best suited as studio monitors. Folks designing and manufacturing entertainment products are striving to differentiate themselves in a very noisy business environment, and certainly there are hit and misses with offerings. G-R is betting on the misses for the most part. It's like saying Leonardo's brush strokes weren't quite right, but you either like the Mona Lisa or you don't. G-R "fixes" other people's products because from my vantage point he lacks that kind of creativity. Think about this way. It's like upgrading a good watch because you don't like the way the second hand moves. If you didn't like it, you shouldn't have bought it in the first place. Speakers are a haven for guys like G-R. Most of them have cheap guts.
I think this may be the first video of yours I have watched. I'll check out a few more. It's nice to have another Floridian audiophile. I'm in SE FL, what part of the state are you in?
Great job. I couldn’t have said it better.
I stand with Danny.
Well said Dave! It's about time somebody called out this arrogant salesman and his 'products'.
Well said sir , just subscribed . 😊
There are TH-cam "Reviewers" and there are "Influencers".......The line gets blurred...
Way to go buddy. That was a spot-on rant.
Although I think Danny has fairly high value kits, I’ve really had my doubts about his religion of pursuing perfect empirical measurements.
Aloha Dave. This is the first time I’m seeing your channel. As a hifi and analog enthusiast/hobbyist I watch a smattering of hifi and vinyl review channels including many of the names you mentioned. I have not, however, heard of GReasearch before the recent kerfuffle of which this most righteous video addresses. As such I feel that it would be inappropriate of me to comment on their product(?). Obviously if they produce graphs they must know how to do that well at least. So I’ll give the benefit of the doubt to the fine people at the GRease Church, and I’ll take you at your word that they are as honest and forthright as you say they are. You have never steered me wrong before and I don’t see why you would be now. The one thing I will say about GRE Search is that whatever it is that they are or aren’t doing they should keep it up, After all if it weren’t for their recent “hot take” I wouldn’t have been introduced to your channel along with a rapier wit you wield so well. I think I’ll stick around a little longer and see if there is more I can learn from you about how GRrrrreat! Danny and the rest of the team at GYRoscopic tell us they are. I’ll look forward to your next video on this intriguing subject. In the meantime, do you mind if I peruse your back catalog while I wait?
Sincerely,
Tripp Moore
I have never agreed completely with Danny. But appreciate his level technical experience and knowledge. Some of his comments are right in line with what I have found. I have a degree in electronics and sold some of the tops brands of HiFi as a Manufacturers Rep back in it's hay day. Marantz, AR, Kenwood, Cerwin Vega, AT, ... I gave seminars, lectures and even in store clinics.
I've stopped watching many of the reviewers. Stuffing a half million dollars worth of hardware into a room where you sit 6-8' from speakers 12' apart with a sofa against the wall will never provide a good sound stage. Yet we hear them claim otherwise. Or they admit they can't listen loud because of neighbors? One review had the guy giving a perfect list of what is wrong with his reference Klipsch horns in comparison to the reviewed speakers without admitting the Klipsch do actually have those sonic problems and should not be considered reference material. But when you listen at low levels with poor placement, horns can impress!
This was a lot of Danny's comments. That many "reviewers" lack any actual background other than either had a system back in the day and want to get back in and be on the tubes, or have cash and can wax poetic. The goal being to be able to produce an interesting word salad with a new combination of the same list of words.
I do miss going to the local hifi shop here in town, talking with the reps, and listening to gear. The pandemic kind of put a halt to that.
I did get to meet and talk with Shannon Parks of Parks Audio, who designed and manufactures the Puffin DSP phono preamp. That is an awesome phono preamp at it's price point.
@@zulumax1 I really enjoyed doing them back in the day. Though at times it would get very exhausting. Packing up a van load of speakers while introducing the AR 9 line. Or the displays and test equipment for the Kenwood High Speed tour. Get to a store in a different state by 8AM to set up, stay till closing (9PM?), take the sales crew to dinner, get a few hours sleep and get up at 2AM to drive to the next state/ town. Rinse and repeat.
thoughtful video, dave. have you seen gene dellasala's response from audioholics? i think he handled it well. he's the guy that got into it over danny's claims about cables. it's sort of ridiculous to suggest that someone like gene "isn't ready." i think the two of them should visit each other's setup. gene is a hard science engineering type. his room and testing setup is at least as advanced as danny's. they have very different approaches and i've learned from both channels.
Yes! I like them both. Would love to see a zoom chat with them, if not in the same room.
Gene says he will not go to Texas unless he is paid to go.
Love it! Was dead on right, you said what I believe everyone was thinking. Thanks
I did see that video with Danny, he did say something to that effect but he did cite an example of what one reviewer did that irked him and it wasn't not having a perfect room but more of not even trying.
Good words. Subscribed.
That was slick, and I am glad you considered your wife's interests!
It's all opinion as there is no absolute reference. Years ago (30+) a Brit hifi magazine would put together a system, get a preferential pricing scheme (some discount offer) and ask those who took up the offer to comment on the reviewers opinion. Some interesting results but it never really took off.
But it had a sensible logic to it which may be a useful tool to give substance to all the reviews. Now, if every reviewer cobbled their own system together, according to budget groups, there would be a good basis for comparison when consumers rated the system. Also, swapping out a component would enable a less subjective assessment.
Just some thoughts from the past.
Well said Danny, Payola is alive and well on TH-cam, I long ago gave up on reviews because they are so rigged.
I can understand where Danny is coming from. Once your system is at a level where individual components matter it makes you say "Come and listen to my setup. I will show you what good sound is all about."
Not to show off but to simply demo what words could not explain.
Many moons ago I built an active system with high quality amps and designed an active 4 way crossover, for each speaker (Dynaudio drivers) and went through all the different upgrades of interconnects, speaker wiring, audiophile grade components throughout the whole system. All the wiring was done using military grade silver plated oxygen free copper in teflon sleeving. From the CD player to the speakers all was constantly changed to improve the sound. You name it i did it.
Each little improvement also uncovered flaws in other parts of the system. All the changes and improvements just highlighted how the weakest link in the audio chain has an impact. It took a long time to get to a stage where I could truly relax and just listen to the music from pop to rock to classical. I just played what I was in the mood for and truly go immersed in the sound.
Hear hear.
Bringing home gear that sounds radically different than it did in the hi-fi showroom has been a bone of contention to the home audiophile for as long as I can remember and I'm old. You could almost say 'bait & switch', but not really if you took home exactly what you had demonstrated in the showroom b y the salesperson. At least Paul @PS Audio has written a book on how to setup and tune you system for your living space. Even the 'big gun' reviewers on TH-cam will readily admit, the choices out there are almost infinite and changing all the time. You'll rarely see anybody say something to the effect of;"You have a 20' x 16' room, this is exactly the stereo system you should have!" I'm glad to have choices, but it also becomes overwhelming unless you're the sort that is always tweaking and upgrading your system. Personally, I find that tedious. Room acoustics can radically change any system....but how far, how much to spend on that and for what gain is always the question. In fact you can say that about hi-fi in general, "How far and how much to spend for what gain?'
Danny is Texas slick. He Reminds me of W.
A lot of audio reviewers are like politicians
I think lots of people missed the mark or what (I think) Danny was trying to say... the way I took it was him saying your baseline as a reviewer, even if your setup is in-home casual listening, should be the best and closest to ideal setup as possible. Anything short of that would be like an Algebra teacher grading a test that they only know 70% of the answers to.
Wish we could all be simpatico. Each channel has something to offer - and viewers are not forced to watch either one. I've always been fascinated with speakers, how they are designed, measured, and the various trade-offs one encounters when building one. Danny's channel satisfies my curiosity along those lines. Your channel offers great insights into the world of vintage gear - which is also a strong interest of mine. We should try to get along. My view: Listening is the final arbiter. If you like what you hear, after break-in, and after extended listening sessions - does it really matter what anyone else thinks about your particular choice of audio gear? For instance, Danny did a video on the original B&W 705 - a speaker I very much enjoy. I can tell you honestly that I would never consider kicking them to the curb as junk. Is his criticism of the 705 valid? Probably - from his world-view. But do I still like the stock sound of them? Of course. Am I going to install his 705 upgrade kit? No. His criticism was noted in my mind, but changed nothing with respect to how I judge the speaker - which I do by listening to it. Simpatico.
This was very well said! Got to keep eyes on the ball. GR is interesting...but frustrating to watch.
Subbed!
Wow the audio community is brutal . I can say this about Danny at GR. I am in no way affiliated with his business but I did one of his speaker upgrades which was pretty fun to say the least. For those that think he’s selling snake oil, you’re wrong. The upgrade was a tremendous difference in sound of my speakers costing was less then the a pair of new ones. If you think it’s bs, try an upgrade form your self and you’ll
See. It’s sad on how brutal the audio community could be. I guess it’s all due to justification of spending thousands of dollars on gear pretending it’s better than someone else’s. Danny is the real deal and truly cares about quality sound at an affordable price and not being ripped off by companies using crappy components in there cabinets.
I left the video with the feeling that Danny, like experts in any field might feel as young upstarts gain popularity without the same level of experience of ability as themselves, felt cheated. Ask anybody who is getting older about their experience compared to the pretty young things that are getting all the attention around them. One feels slighted and a little bit irked. You wake up one day and the world seems different, the old rules don't apply like they used to, values seem askew and the new generation just doesn't seem to know what they're talking about. Well, sometimes that is true but it is not for anyone to say. Life goes on. I like Danny. I like his character and I think his videos are good. The callout was a mistake. Not so much the theory but the naming. As soon as you start naming it becomes personal. Business is business, it is NOT personal. It doesn't matter if a person has ZERO experience in a field and finds success, that is business. In a sense that could be called good business. Or just savvy. I say there is room for everyone and let the audience decide. As soon as you start to call names you look threatened or insecure. Add age (I'm sorry to harp on age but I think it is relevant here) and you will be summarily dismissed by a very large demographic. It was a misstep. I will still watch his videos. I will still have my favorites (Darko). But in business and life, we like what we like. I bought Buchardt A500s solely on the Darko review. That's power. I bought the Audeze LCD=X watching the Headphone show. These review sites work. They sell products. If some reviewers make a little side=cash selling freebies they don't need I have absolutely no problem with that. Almost everyone I know has some kind of side-hustle. Even people who have money, it's the way things are.
I’m older than Danny, but I am an upstart. Thanks
Danny has been making speakers and counselling speaker manufacturers for like 40 years and making speakers is very different from reviewing them . Theres a giant gap of knowledge seperating the 2. He makes some people angry because he shows us the crap parts put in our beloved speakers and you don't make a lot of friend's doing that, but the problem is, he's right. Our speakers , even high end ones, are full of crap parts, like 5 cent and 15 cent parts that could have been easily built better and i must say, if the parts we're a bit better i could understand because of the price point and distributor and dealer fees who take 50% each but when you see the price of the actual parts you get a bit angry and there was nothing you could do about it until Danny came along and i don't take these things personnally. He just calls out what he sees. Now if you love your speakers and want to make them better you at least have an option with the kits. He encourages people to further their knowledge by building the kits which is great in my opinion. And I've never seen a customer be unhappy with his upgrades. As for putting his speakers outhere for review, he has. New record day and Jay Iyagi reviewed them and we're both impressed. From reading a lot about the description of the speakers he makes, Danny seems to have a preference for transparency and soundstage above all so its not for everyone as some people prefer punch and slam and exaggerations in the midband or midbass but he made the bullies and brute if that is your cup of tea. Personally im glad he came along. He showed me that most of our speakers are full of crap parts and could be way better. And that goes for other components as well. I have modified my preamp andcstarted building cables because of him. Knowledge is always a good thing in my opinion. Your speakers aren't you so let's not take this too personally.
Awesome Watch, mate!