Tested | Surprising traction differences between R4 \\ R14 \\ Bar-Turf
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I live on 10 acres of pure clay. Anything but R1 tires become racing slicks after about 2 revolutions. Turf tires would give me the best pulling power, but that would drop to basically zero the instant they got packed up. Excellent info!
The less aggressive tires will perform better until they load up with mud, then the more aggressive and better self clearing treads will show their worth.
In snow they say you want bitting edges that's why they have a lot of wipes they equal bitting edges that bar turf has a lot of bitting edges but once you spin them in muddy conditions if there's not enough space between the edges they will fill up then will act like a bald tire. That's why farms use R1 there is so much space between the edges they empty out and there is more weight of dirt between bites to push against and will penetrate deeper with bigger lugs. So if you do this test in a freshly tilled field or muddy field the other 2 tires will shine. But on turf turf based tires do there job because soil isn't soft enough for the big lugs to sink in to get there bite. My 2 cents anyway Love the Vids. 🤔
My R4's (BX25) fill up with clay type of mud/slime and traction is lost. It makes me chuckle when I see people spending gobs of money on over-powered and over-jacked pickup trucks to go mudding, when tire traction is the defining issue.
Mark Pontes Very good observation and insight.
I would love to see what the R1 Ags can do.
Yeah come on Niel!! Rip that load cell to pieces with the R1🤪👍
And a gear transmission
so would I, as I own R1's and cannot see how less aggressive tires would fair better in my application.
Yeah, I have them and surprisingly I don't think I ever tore up my grass with them because they always just bite right in without slipping a bit. They are loaded so that may help too.
I had these bar turf tires on my first B series back in 1998. I loved them then and still love them now. You can plow snow and gardens as well mow residential grass without tearing up turf.
Thx. I'm thinking they might be the best for me as well when I order a new tractor.
Hi Neil, Really appreciate the "scientific method" in this demo. However, this test would be great if the R1 Ag tires were included. Thanks much!
I USE A SIPING TOOL ON ALL MY TIRES ! Siping was invented by a American sailor because he was sick of slipping on wet decks. Sipping is done by putting many slits into the rubber. I found a siping tool on line that holds a dozen utility blades so it’s able to easily sipe tires. My friend had bald tires on his plow truck and he was so surprised how well it worked.
Interesting experiment! I have R4s on my L3901 and they have performed very well for my needs on my property.
Another very important point in regards to R4 vs the new-ish R14 is that the load rating of the front tires are 250lbs more (each) for the R4 vs the R14. If you are doing loader work, this would be important, well, at least it is for me.
As long as the combined front tire weight rating exceeds the tractors rated bucket carrying capacity, all is good
Messick's
I love your intro to your videos. Don't change that!
Interesting test, enjoy this type of content. Would love to see the R1 in the test also.
Very nice episode, Neil!
I always appreciate the honest testing
Interesting fact, the first and only tractor built years ago I ever seen the turf tires like the Kubota had on it was the Allis Chalmers 616/620 line of tractors back in 1968. So once again Allis Chalmers was 30+ years ahead
If I remember correctly, those were Goodyears adopted from some early Argo 6x6 application. The tread pattern was from Baja racers. AC saw to use them as did Simplicity and Wheel Horse. Little Power Shop across the highway from the tire shop I worked at in the 70s had Argo, Simplicity, WH, AMF, Lombard etc. I figured they worked equally well in any direction but up.
@@thegreenerthemeaner Allis Chalmers owned Simplicity at the time
I know this is an old video but I've been involved in some similar tire testing and what we found was when the vehicle was relatively lighty loaded that narrow lugs (like the best performing tires in this video) consistently provide the best grip. We theorize this is because they are able to bite into the ground better.
With thick lugs, like the R4 tread, we found they need considerably more weight on them before they start to really work.
Most of my tractor work includes 1000+ pounds of ballast (my 1025R has all 4 tires filled plus I either have a 750 lb ballast box on or something of similar weight).
What I would very much appreciate is a similar tire testing video where at least an 800 lb 3-point hitch weight box was installed on every test and assurance that all of the tires are all filled the same way (either all with just air or preferably all with the same high density fill).
Well for light truck tires the less-agressive All-terrains will typically out perform a mud terrain in pretty much every condition and terrain with the exception of deep thick mud or rock crawling, so honestly I'm not surprised that the A/T of the tractor world holds it's own.
Air pressure plays a MAJOR role on traction & ride ability!
Years ago I had personal experience with a Firestone 23 degree tire on a Super MTA Farmall & it didn't do so well. We had to replace one tire on the M & they used a 23 degree. To perform as well as the other side pulling a disc, it had to be run at a lower air pressure & in wet conditions it didn't clean itself as well.
Love your videos keep them coming!!
Be interesting to try it on a gravel surface
In hard pack conditions the tire with the most biting edges on the ground at once should provide the most pull. It would have been interesting to of had a set of regular turf tire add for the test.
Another test that would be interesting is in tilled ground like a garden or food plot and test the three tires you tested today. I think you’ll get the results you expected today.
I love the comparison was wondering if you could do one with a control tire? I would like to know how those tires compare to the standard ag tire.
I only use turf tires on my 4 wheel drive Kubota GR2110 for plowing snow in the winter. I never have traction problems. This shocked me as, many people told me you need ag tires. Just not true in all cases. These tires stay on 365 days a years.
I would like to see how they do in plowed ground
Best tire test on TH-cam. Nice job 👍🏻
I would love to see R3 turfs on this test too
Great job, I would like to see the tires tested in the woods. I tell my local Kubota dealer about your videos all of the time. You guys do a great job. So what is the approximate cost difference between the different tires? I have the R4 tires on my L3901.
I know you tested the R4's for turf damage - it would be really neat to see the same comparison with the R14s and maybe even the bar/turf tires.
It's about the tire clean out, so you have a clean tread after rotation. In mud, you probably get the results you expected.
Very interesting out come
The biggest benefit to a really aggressive tyre is their ability to clear mud from between the tread.
A turf or all terrain will clog easier generally.
I would really like to see the R4 vs R14 testing done in snow similar to the 2019 test you did with turf tires.
I have run both R1 and R4 in snow for plowing (with chains) Thinking when the current R4's I am running wear out I might want to try the R14 but..... The Turf tire results as well as these are awesome to see.
Appreciate the comparison. Would like to hear your opinion of spacing out rear tires as to safety and traction effect if any. Thanks.
6:23 tells you everything you need to know about reactions to expectations. haha.
Good test, different tires for different jobs. I have R-4's on a 30hp Kioti with a factory frame mounted backhoe, they don't clean very well in mud but they wear longer than an R-1 would on hard surface & don't tear up yards as bad. These bar/turf's would be great on a mowing/light use tractor. Are the ply ratings similar?
You keep mentioning landscaping work, which is a very good thing to do, but please don't forget about those of us that are operating garden market farms when your comparing things. Keep up the great work!!!
I'd love to see a deep snow comparison, maybe not with the load cell, but with a drift that gets deeper the further you go. Trying out a few different tire types to see what's going to keep going in deep snow
The bar turfs looks just like the ones on my grandpa's old John Deere 670, which work great. I always wondered why they fell out of use. Not surprised that the R4s weren't so great either. The huge flat lugs on them have very few biting edge to them compared to an R1, or the sharp little edges on the bar turf.
Obviously that test surface is the most benign compared to working in rougher terrain in woods with tall grass and uneven ground. Staubs, rocks and other debris could play havoc with those shorter lugs. At least an environment much different that an nicely sculptured flat grass field.
he seems so bewildered
With traction the lugs will remove loose material until it finds something solid, its the same principal as mud tires. So if the tires can dig into the material to grab traction they will and if it slips it will pull it out of the way.
Also during your demo you failed to mention if you tried the individual tests on the same patch or changed to a new patch.
Those bar/turf tires are excellent. Have had them on a B2400 and B2920. Nothing compares traction wise. Wish they made bigger ones.
What is the brand/model of the bar-turf tires?
Goodyear Xtra Trac, but I think they're made by Titan now.
I have a 2004 B7510 with the bar turf tires and they are a great all around tire. Snow mud or grass they have great traction. I would have thought the R14's would have done better than the bar turf.
The bar turfs get better traction because of less material in the center. The almost solid middles of the R4 and R14 allow them to "float" and don't allow them to dig in.
Yep that’s exactly what’s going on. I wonder what psi they had too. Looked to be pretty high and maybe aired down the side lugs could do more work.
@@shawnbottom4769 You're right. Depending on weight on the 3-point you could drop down to 20 or even 10 PSI if you needed the extra traction. I do that all the time for sand and mud in my jeep.
You would have to test in mud to see ag tires ....the turf tire will always get better traction on...turf. much more surface area on ground
Thanks for the Video,
Nice job 👍
Wow Not what I expected either! But just my opinion I would think once the bar lugs caked up they wouldn’t clean out and then become less tractive where the r14 open lugs on the side would continue to self clean probably even more noticeable in muddier conditions, just my thoughts. Thanks For all the awesome videos!
Really would have liked to have also seen the AG tire as well.
The Bar-Turf tire has thinner ribs, so probably dig better with more flex. I would also believe they would be preferable on muddy side slopes, as the R4 on my BX25 has a tendancy to slide sideways.
I like the raw results
Tire pressure seems like an important component here.
I feel like tractor weight is going to play a role. The skinny lugs will have better ground penetration with a lighter weight tractor, whereas the thicker, deeper lugs on the more aggressive tires will shine when used on something with the mass to push them into the soil.
what brand is the bar turf tire?
Only other thing I saw which doesn't mean I was accurate was it appeared that you put the r4 tires in the same spot as the bar turf tire was previously in which had already stripped away the top layer of grass making the r4 and the r14 start out more on a wet muddy type surface. not sure if that's the case or not. nice video though as they always are.
Kinda makes sense, surface area !
You mean the turf tires performed best on turf?! Who would have thought?! Lol!!! 😄🙄
You're really lost aren't you none of those was turf tires
@@poorfatman5317 well the bar tires are a hybrid turf tire. So yes most would considered that tire to be more of a turf tire than any other tire.
😆
@@poorfatman5317 Yeah Tom! Lol
The R4 is about what I thought. It just doesn’t grip. I wonder about the R1 though. It would definitely have the ability to shed more dirt from it’s tracks. But, would it grip stronger?
lets see them snow plowing.
What tractor did you use that was unusual with the mid range in that class
In regards to LX 2610 HSDC tractor with either the smaller R14 or R4 tires, which tires gives the shorter height distance from the ground to the top of the cab? The spec sheet on the Kabota webpage mentions to heights of 84.6 inches. I am wishing to acquire a new tractor upon where I wish to keep it in my garage but my clearance from the floor to the header is only 83 inches. So I’m wondering which tires they had mounted on the tractor that they came up with the measurement on the specs page with?
Maybe a mud test next with the tires and when winter rolls around a snow test?
For max traction, maximize psi (of the tire contact surface not the air in the tire).
What’s happening at 3:35 ? Are you running out of power? Looks like it can’t spin the tires (?)
This is quite old, but I wanted to address his conclusions. The Bar Turf actually has less contact patch that the other two tires. He assumed more because of better traction, but that is incorrect. Less contact patch means the total weight of the tractor is distributed to less square inches, in other words, each square inch of contact patch has more weight on it. On a flat hard surface, that makes no difference, but on dirt that can give, the smaller contact patch means it can 'dig' the dirt easier, and digging into the dirt give you additional lateral force when pulling. However, as others have pointed out, if the tread does not shed the soil easily, after a few turns the contact patch becomes huge as the lugs and the dirt create a 'slick' tire, meaning traction will go to nothing in short order.
Honestly, the only reason the R4s are the most popular is because that's probably what the manufacturer puts on the tractors from the factory 90% of the time. Just sayin'. Anyway, great demonstration, wish you would have tried R1s though.
Interesting, fun test. Thanks.
Which tire will last longer?
I am just watching this video now, a year after production. Some of my work will be on grass fields, so I first asked about the bar turf tire for my new L3901 purchase. Two of my local dealers said that the bar turf tire is not available, so I asked about the R14 option. That is available, but I was quoted a price of $500 increase for R14 vs. the R4 option. I thought in an earlier video you said that the R4 would be the most expensive tire option because it had the most rubber and had much heavier sidewalls. Any explanation for the higher $ for the R14?
Bill Stout that's an easy one to answer haha. It's the "latest and greatest" tire available.
I wonder how much difference it makes if you have less air in the tires, or more air, or max air pressure for the tires...I know for offroading & rock crawling in trucks & SUV's letting air out of the tires gives them a better ground contact patch and provides much better traction....course with a loader you really can't do that, but if you are mowing your lawn for example, which should you do, max tire inflation or let some air out? Maybe a redo with different tire pressures.
Awesome, I love these tire comparisons! I was leaning toward turf tires for snow traction on a b2650. I assume bar/turfare also available on that model?
Thankyou for showing us.
Small b only
I would like to see a tires test in the snow on a Black top driveway that's a hill.
Need this type test in dirt and mud.
I wonder what you would see if you had those tractors weighted down. I bet you would have very different results.
Would like to see these compared to the standard reference, the agricultural R1.
We never sell them, unlikely to ever have stock.
The R1 tires would probably send the tractors hydro into by pass before the tires break loose. I have R1 tires on my B1550 with gear transmission and I pull cord wood out of the woods with it.
Husqman
I have an original BX23. Back then the choices were turf tires for mowing, or R1. I choose R1. The rears are holding up OK, but my fronts ( the older 8" wheel, also R1 Ag., are not holding up so well. At some point I may buy new 10" front wheels as fitted from BX25 onward. When I do I will want to pick a tire that will be not only good for use under the FEL, but also will work well when I eventually replace the rear tires as well. The Bar-Turf look interesting.. and if they really grip in semi moist grass as well as these do in this video, I am interested.. In Oregon we deal with months of rain at a time.. only for a brief period do we have baking hot and dry.
@@jenniferwhitewolf3784 I think you'll find that regardless of what size or type of tire you put on the front they will wear out faster than the back. The front is spinning at a little faster rate than the back to aid in stearing. Plus changing just the front wheel and tires will change the gearing may damage said gears. I would consult your dealer before you do anything...
Hey Messick's, I'm looking at the LX2610. I'd like the taller tires for the traction and clearance, but I'm concerned about an increase in turn radius. How much are the taller tires going to affect that?
Don't have a good reference for that, but I would guess it'll be pretty minimal.
Put the bar/turf vs r1 ag
I wish kubota would have the split pedals for HST tractors I would buy one in a minute!! when they change they will truly have the better tractors
They may gain you, but they'd loose far more. A majority of people prefer the single pedal
I wonder how these results may vary if the tractor is fully loaded with weight, say 800lbs chipper on the back and a full bucket
Ok,so, was that on the exact same tractor? Or the same kind of tractor?
what is up with your key chain?
ok now try rice and cane tires deep lug :D
10,000lb is a lot of force. What is the drawbar rated for?
If you lower the tyre pressure you will get more traction the more aggressive tyres will outperform in loose conditions every time in my experience anyway
I'm wondering about using these different tire options on slopes. I'm leaning toward the Bar-Turf tire based on your tests but I have slopes, not just flat ground. Thoughts?
I'd support that
@@MessicksEquip One more question about the Bar-Turf tire. Is there a more common designation? My local dealer told me my option was either Bar or Turf, not a combo. (???)
I'm wondering if the R4 and R14 would perform better if you reduced the inflation pressure. They looked pretty stiff/solid with no deformation. Lower pressures can greatly increase the contact patch.
I was wondering the same thing. Variations in air would seem to affect each type
sounds like another video
@@MessicksEquip yes do a video on traction at different tire psi
Excellent video! I was just having some buyer's remorse on buying R4 tires vs the R14s, but I guess it wouldn't have made much of a difference.
contact patch along with mud / dirt evacuation ...
So, I just went back and watched the R3 Turf vs R4 Industrial test using a BX23. With R4 Industrial, that little BX23 pegged your load cell at 3000+ pounds, while this B series (I'm assuming it's a B2601?) in this test maxed out at 1100 pounds. Granted, the BX test had a backhoe on it, and was done in 4wd, but from what I'm seeing the BX put three times as much power on the ground as a machine that should weigh significantly more.....?
Different transmission range.
@@MessicksEquip makes sense.
Those bar turf tires are definitely more aggressive tire then you're thinking because you can get them on automobiles like pickup trucks and you take them out in the mud and they beat those industrial tires every time
curious how they do in mud
I have R1 ag tires, they are tearing up my driveway. How much are the R14T tires and do I have to get different wheels too?
I suspect the R14 requires a wider wheel. Curious what type of driveway you have?
How's it tearing up your driveway? What type of driveway
To be honest, i think it's the other way around. With a tire that has less surface area in contact with the ground, more weight will get put on a smaller area which will allow the tread to dig in deeper into the ground. The tread digging into the ground translates to more grip and more traction. That's why the R4 tires performed the worst - they have more surface area in contact with the ground, which is great for industrial floors or asphalt, but not so great for soft ground. On soft ground, the weight will get spread out all over the tire and cause the treads to just glide on top of the grass/dirt and thus you get less traction. This is why turf-tires are essentially flat with shallow treads. More surface area means less traction, but it also means that the weight of the tractor gets spread out over a larger area and thus won't leave as much tread tracks and damage when driving on turf. An R1 would probably perform better than both the R4 and the R14, but i'm uncertain about the Bar-Turf.
Anyway, that's just what i think.
The bar turfs are not less aggressive than the other two, they are more aggressive. If you put a slick rubber tire on wet grass, it will just spin, right? Because the only way for a tire to get traction on such a surface is to bite into the surface, which is what the lugs do...the weight of the tire pushes the lugs into the soft ground, giving the tire something to act against to create traction. The bar turf tires have more lugs than the other two types, and the lugs are thinner so they can sink deeper into the soft ground and get more bite. Other surfaces may show different results.
An R1 AG tire will still take the bar turf any day :P Maybe not on hard or solid terrain though... But in mud? Oh yeah!
Cool comparo! Couldn't you have wiped the bird poop of the seat?
How does each tire choice affect the total width of the tractor? The B2301/2601 spec sheet shows a difference in width between the two models - is that simply a tire choice issue?
tire choice.
@@MessicksEquip Is there a spec sheet somewhere that shows which tire results in which overall tractor width? I have trouble understanding the tire size numbering system, and I would guess the geometry of the hub also affects things.
@@urbanawoodproject3123 there is not. I only trust a tape measure.
I would not say that the bar turf is the least aggressive, it looks like the most aggressive to me!
With the bar/ turf, is it available for the 40-50
hp range tractor?
No.
@@MessicksEquip then I assume they aren't available on a Grand L then either? Kubota might want to consider it since I think a good number of those tractors are used in turf, winter or light ground engagement activities where the extra grip might be useful.
@@mefastest at the point, titan is not making the tire in this size.
@@MessicksEquip thank you for confirming my assumption. Any chance you could have a conversation with your Titan contacts? Haha. Looking forward to more interesting and informative videos.
Best tire comparsion on TH-cam
How do you remember which key to use? Do you have enough to choose from? LOL
He doesn’t need keys, he watches The Lock Picking Lawyer on TH-cam.
You did not mention that the tire that won DOES NOT HAVE A MATCHING FRONT TIRE .....THEY USE A REGULAR TURF TIRE BY BRIDGSTONE (CAN SEE IN THE BEGINNING OF VIDEO) AS A FRONT ....ITS A SHAME CAUSE THEY LOOK COOL