ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2021
- I decided to measure the benefits of installing Carbon Fiber parts and Titanium Hardware on my 3D printer.
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TITANIUM:
M3 Nuts ► s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_Asnj39
M3 Washers ► s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_A1TVrN
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M3x40 Screws ► s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_AAWDLz
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MirageC - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
The use of dremel sand paper cylinders to keep the tool in position is genius.
I agree, when I saw that I was like : WTF why didn't I think of that! 😂
@@GT_213 took me a few scratch behind the head before this idea pops! :)
genius?!
Don't underestimate the weight of hardware. Mazda famously saved 100s of lbs using 'gram strategy'. That included using smaller fasterners and smaller heads on this fasteners, and ones only as long as needed. I bet the steel bolts are 1/2 the weight.
steel is twice the weight of titanium, and titanium is twice the weight of aluminium bolts
@@Nobody-Nowhere I think they meant that the steel hardware is accounting for half the weight of the whole assembly.
It was Colin Chapman, the founder of Lotus, who was the pioneer. “Simplify and add lightness” was his mantra.
I'm sure nylon hardware is strong enough for holding down the rail, I bet aluminum pop rivets would work too.
@@BrianBoniMakes probably bad for heated chamber, maybe peek or PEI screws would be better. just pricey.
that rail is probably the heaviest thing on there. This week ill be playing with something to replace it. Ill keep you posted :)
I was wondering if mounting the linear guide on the side of the carbon fiber beam was a better solution to increase the resonant frequency of the y axis than mounting it above / below. Have you done this type of experiment?
@@librasd8087 my next iteration of the printhead will be like that
Could you mill or bore holes in the rail to remove weight?
@@Vez3D WOW, wow, you are evolving your 3d printer very quickly! Just love it!
I hope you have kept the accelerometer data of your current version, because it would be really interesting to compare it with your next iteration of the 3d printer
@@TheRealMrLaserCutter the steel used for linear guides usually has a hardness of 55/65 HRC, which is a lot for HSS drill bit... it is a real challenge to drill holes in that steel... maybe you can be successful using tungsten carbide bits, but they require precise cutting speeds otherwise you risk throwing away an 80-100 € drill bit after, like, 10 holes
Not only are your engineering skills awesome but your videography abilities are shining through as well! Very cool.
I really enjoyed this video, thanks for doing this. There's an old hot rodder's saying that goes "Speed costs money, how fast can you afford to go?". It applies here. The first changes to make things lighter or more powerful don't cost a lot of money and have large benefits, but the further you go the more you'll find you're spending greater sums of money for lesser results.
Weight saving ideas: 1) Replace aluminum end caps on the extruder stepper with machined CF. Easy enough with a mill and/or a laser cutter. Forged carbon with smaller fiber lengths is easier to machine than weaves 2) No clue if the shaft needs to be metal for function but could be replaced with carbon rods. The bearings can be downsized as well. (Life will be shorter but performance gains...) Lowering the weight of the rotor should directly enable faster change in acceleration. Extruder speed may not make a huge difference in the end but if the current setup does not meet the hot end ceiling (acceleration wise, might have to make a test for that) then there's some room to improve. 3) Remove the fasteners if its going to be a permanent thing. Loctite has Epoxy specifically for steel to carbon welds. The result is stronger than steel to steel welds. This may save good amount of weight. - Good work there, keep going!
I’d be concerned with heat buildup in the stepper. Those aluminum end caps are a main way to get heat out of them. This is particularly true on such a small motor where there isn’t much exposed steel laminations.
Now this would be interesting to try on the mounting face of the motor, where it’s pressed against the plastic anyway.
Your tips and tricks are obviously all from experience! absolutely genius. I could watch your work all day
Finally a new video! Very well done🤩
Excellent progress! Love the video! 👏😎
That was a LOT more detail than I expected! Very well done, this will help a lot of people reach insane speeds I'm sure :D
Man I love the quality of this content! I will be building a full spec HevORT in the near future, cannot wait for it!
This is awesome Oliver, this R&D information is incredibly valuable. Can't wait to see what you come up with next!
Thank you my friend! You material is super impressive too! :)
Some lightness ideas:
1. Thinner side rails for whole X gantry - it looks like it's overlooked but when your printer is doing Y move it actually swings 3 linear rails carriages - one for the head and two for the whole x gantry. It could be worth looking for smaller Y axis rails as it lets you use lighter carriages (going from MGN12 to MGN9 drops something around 40 grams from the whole X gantry)
2. Lightness holes - drill holes the size of socket needed to install nuts on the opposite side of the beam, which will remove mass without impacting stiffness that much, with added bonus of simpler rail installation and added possibility on nondestructive removal.
3. Hollow bolts - used on racing bikes, half the weight of normal ones, don't know if obtainable at this size (can always drill it yourself).
4. Adhesive - use adhesive to bond rail with carbon fiber tube and reduce number of used fasteners only to critical ones.
smart man :) yes I agree!
If I may add to this...
- Belts: switching from 10mm width to 6mm width will reduce the belt's mass by up to 40%. In so doing, you'd have to get shorter and thus lighter idlers, reducing moment of inertia and thus further increasing acceleration.
- extruder type: I'm sure you've considered it already but it is worth pointing out the significant reduction of mass by implementing a bowden setup for the extruder. Use Capricorn tubing and an inline lubricator to minimise the compromise on flow.
@@jacobnassr-low7757 In addition to the low friction bowden setup, something simple could easily help the tube freely move too. Removing the slightest amount of drag on the gantry..
I don't think the lightness holes would be an efficient trick to use here, due to the way carbon fiber material is made. When it comes to metal construction, absolutely do use it and same for plywood, because the glue used in most plywood, chemically bonds the fibers together. I do though doubt that is the same for carbon fiber materials, as although they are layered and use epoxy, there are different strengths of epoxy and the stresses of higher acceleration could exceed the maximum limits of the epoxy used for the carbon fiber bonding. That means that lightness holes can cause cracking, which will first cause wobbling and eventually stop the gantry from printing straight.
This is also why he used inside and outside blocks, plus added tape for support when drilling and cutting the material, as it would otherwise delaminate. A possible way around this, is to make the holes larger and add reinforcing material that doesn't increase the weight anymore than what it would be, if he went with the size of the holes you suggest. Any reinforced material should, of course, be epoxied in place. A potential work around without adding more material, is to seal the edges of the holes with epoxy to prevent delamination, but I'm not sure how much that would help, as it theory it should work, but potential variables are the lamination strength between the carbon fiber material surface and the added epoxy, as well as the stress capacity of the epoxy itself.
Thinner side rails could be an option, if the friction induced by the increased speed, doesn't cause the rail to become skewed, due to uneven heating. If Titanium rail and carriages can be found however, then that would significantly increase the efficiency and same for hollow bolts. Titanium is already incredibly light, but making the existing bolts even lighter as you suggest, is just a plus and so for using adhesive for bonding the rail to the carbon fiber, if industrial grade epoxy is used (as that would make the tube break before the epoxy)
Might be impossible to manufacture but a titanium linear rail?
Ramping up that production quality my guy!
So many great ideas and techniques packed into a single video. Thanks for sharing your great ideas.
dude. what quality. great video! really enjoyed the approach. always looking for content like this.
wow, great walkthrough video 👍☺️
Your videos are getting better and better 👍
thanks for sharing your experience with all of us 👍😀
Great content. And I appreciate your production quality.
Your 3D printed tools to help you build this is awesome!
Nice video and great idea for performance improvement! Keep it going!
drill a larger hole on the back side of the tube, wide enough for the proper socket to just fit. for such a light duty application you can thin the walls of a socket by grinding it down to allow for a smaller hole reducing structure integrity loss.
This is awesome, and made me think about wether a triangular prism (I had to look up the name for a triangular shaped tube) would help with weight even further along with better rigidity through the hollow portions.
This came up in my recommendations and I really enjoyed it, I like the way you explained everything in the intro before jumping in and showing it.
Earned a new subscriber. Nice work!
Glad you enjoyed! thank you :)
I love the way you use 3d printd tooling to hild the rails and mount the nuts and washers!
I can’t help but think of using rivets instead of all that hardware. Nobody stresses lightweight and reliability like airplanes
Fokker used glue for ages...
This was so intersting. Thank you for your work and sharing.
Thanks for providing such fascinating info to your viewers. I appreciate all of your efforts. Sincere thanks for sharing this!
My pleasure! It is when reading comments like this that I get motivated to produce more :)
I'm not sure if I'm more impressed by your 3D printer or your video production skills.
Either way, BRAVO!!
Thank you, brilliant explanation and brilliant work.
Good video. Every time I see that you upload something I have to look at it immediately
Thank you for your visit and loyalty :)
Great editing job :) I love everything about what you are doing
Thank you Anoir! that means a lot to me ;)
Very nice work for sure ! just a few suggestions/ideas... replace all but 2 (outer ends) of those bolts in the rail with carbon fiber bolts that would save a lot. Or you could also play with nylon bolts to keep the cost down a bit. or just epoxy the rail to the CF extrusion and remove all the bolts. There is probably also room to lighten that rail by drilling out the bolt holes to a much larger size and if epoxied together strength loss should not be an issue.
Excellent content, a ton of info. Thanks a lot.
Love it when physics and good design allows you to do great engineering.
Titanium fasteners?! That's nuts!
Edit: Whoa! that's a much bigger difference than i thought.
Amazing video mr Mirage! Love your work
Thank you :)
Amazing work here, thanks
this is crazy,, awesome... briliant...wow..wanna try it some day !!
Definitely underrated video!
Great video,
really wish someone would make some 2020 rails made of carbon
I had an attempt at that and failed but this teaches me new things... I want to try again now, thanks!
Glad to hear that! Hit me up if you need more details ;)
You midge want to fill any hollow parts with a lightweight, vibration-dampening material (such as a polynorbornene foam, perhaps?)
This might also add a bit of additional rigidity.
You got my subscription. Thanks for all your hard work
Thank you and welcome aboard.
That was amazing to see in action. Time to buy some carbon fibre
I don't know if someone else pointed this out but to keep CF from fraying or delaminating after cutting use CA glue it will seal it and keep that strength to the end of the part . I use a medium gap filling formula. Interesting hope this helps and good luck in testing!
Awesome video and great explanation. 👍🏼👍🏼
This is awesome 😎. Great video 👍
Holy shit. Best content on youtube i’ve ever seen. Theory with calculus, practice and demonstrations, and finally the results, all that to achieve a goal. Fucking thank you.
Yes I enjoyed it very much. One small step for channel one huge step for 3D printing.
Excellent video, and thank you for much food for thought, I have ordered parts to convert my ender 5 pro into a mercury one, with an aluminium cross bar, now I want to do it in carbon fibre lol
An inspiration as usual!
I just got purchased a ender 3v2 a few ago and in love with printing now haha I'm already looking into get a better faster printer. Hopefully one day I can figure everything out and not feel so overwhelmed with all the technical parts of printing.
insane!!!hello from patagonia Argentina.
I was about to suggest titanium bolts and nut partly as a joke, but you already took that step :D
When I raced 1/10th scale R/C cars we had weight limits. We used titanium for things like the steering turnbuckles where strength was an issue but aluminum bolts in all other places. Those aluminum bolts are crazy light and still have decent shear strength.
I use drill bits made for drilling for door hinges, they have a spring loaded center guide. Good quick way to get a centered pilot hole on things like linear rails where accuracy matters.
Yeah, Aluminum fasteners would be good to. The only reason I went with Titanium was to avoid galvanic corrosion between Carbon and Aluminum. I could coat the exposed carbon with some epoxy I guess.
BTW for any cutting with dust, cut inside a bag. I use regular trash bags for many things, when you need to see better get clear plastic drop cloth in the paint departments etc. Essentially think of it as making a fume hood to contain dust and go from there..
@MirageC One of the most important things to me is dimensional accuracy of the finished part. To achieve that with higher performing materials (CF-Nylon to PEEK and beyond). Any of these are going to need heated enclosures. Once you go over 100*C in the enclosure, expansion of the all of the motion parts should be as similar as possible, or things could get out of spec during printing and over time deformation. Would seem that once we start talk heated enclosures (not 50-70*C, I'm talking 100*C and above), having different materials making up your motion system (carbon, titanium, aluminum, etc is going to affect overall part dimensional accuracy). I assume, by the title of this video, you mean 3D Printing without higher temp materials and heated enclosures in the 100*C and higher? Heat aside though, I'm a gram weenie at heart (I do wilderness backpacking and have started developing ultralight gear for that). So if open enclosure 3D printing, I think you are spot on here :-)
Awesome brother!! Nicely done. First time we see your pretty face 😉 xxx
Well, a portion of it! :)
@@MirageC its honestly enough... hahah jk
@@Vez3D lol! :P
Yeah, I just finished converting my ender 5 to corexy. All the parts are carbon fibre nylon. Yes I annealed them before installing, and super fast accel, minimal vibration
Showing us some comparison prints would be genius
Bowden tube instead direct filament drive can save mass too
And cooling solution - instead of fan on head you can use tube and stationary installed fan with high static pressure or air pump - maybe adding peltier cooling can reduce mass of radiator too
(Radiator can be modified too, but adding vapor cha,ber cab be even harder and not be good enough)
Great video! Well done and smart, as always.
You could save a few grams and resistance by making an airtight printer enclosure, running a vacuum pump, and voiding the encloser of all air, but then everything would have to be water cooled...and the extruded plastic would ooze...the part cooling wouldn't work, etc...
I dont the air drag would play a significant role in performance. Definitely not worth the investment.
i wonder if the opposite would be better, increased pressure for better cooling
You are an absolute beauty. Thanks bud.
Woow amazing video, I think at this time have to pick up my screw driver 🔝 thank you
Well
- Remote extruder (Bent, flex rod, or a shaft that is basically a long gear)
- More glue instead of fasteners if they are permanent anyway.
- self made carbon parts by printing them and apply a carbon layer, so you get rid of some fasteners or extra connecting parts
The next one heaviest part is the head, IMHO. It would be interesting to have a full ceramics hotend, or a non-moving laser head, where you have to only move the material feeder and melt it. It can be interesting to compare this new carbon fiber setup with the fastest delta printers - maybe the next move will be that you turn your printer to a delta printer.
There's so much cleverness and know how in what he's doing. This guy should own a 3D printer company. We'd be 5 years ahead in only a couple of months
Yeah we need this guy to do a kickstarter in a year or so when he's finalized the design (not that any design is ever final... lol).
You did a perfect approach. I came around Your very fine video not by looking for speed, but more for reducing vibration on a given speed by reducing mass on the X-carrier. Since you explained so nice the Newton Law I do not need to go further - It's only to remark that Your approach as also a second effect, that is reducing acceleration induced vibration to the printer. Thank You so much for Your nice and also funny video 🙂🙂👍👍
My pleasure! thank you for your uplifting comment!
A few grams could be pulled out of the gantry tube by optimizing the stiffness for the loads. You shouldn’t have much dynamic z-loading, and with your extruded/hot-end you may not have much torsional loading as well. A bunch of holes on rail side and back of rail side may lighten the gantry further.
Very informative channel. Subbed! Thank you for taking the time to making this. I was using carbon shafts too, but they where a bit too loose for the bearings i'm using (5mm id 624ff). I'm now using aluminium shafts, bought some oversized 5mm shaft (it was 5,1mm, anodized) and used NaOH to help it shrink evenly. I do have a lathe, but it's tricky to machine longer shafts perfectly to dimension. Perhaps the carbon shaft was just off, i don't know. Have you considered using an MGM7 rails btw? Allthough 4G+ acceleration is not bad persé :)
Outstanding video.
Have you considered peek or pai fasteners for the rail? This would give another large weight reduction over titanium and they are great for fastening to composites.
Those carbon rods for weight savings are an amazing idea! I'm going to see if I can buy some of those.
For further weight reductions you can look into aluminium fasteners. vs unhardened titanium they have a better strength to weight ratio but they are 40% lighter.
There's also the option of using aluminium heat inserts instead of the brass ones. Compared to brass they're about 1/3th the weight.
I'm currently designing a toolhead board with maximum weight reduction in mind so you have less cables running to the printhead. Finished product is still months away probably.
Aluminum M3 hardware is super picky! combined with the higher thermal expansion difference between CF and Alu, this was not a good choice to me since they could easily cross thread during install and loosen under heat and vibration.
@@MirageC that's a bit far fetched :) people choose titanium because its cool. not because of "heat expansion properties" :) people use aluminium bolts on freaking brake disks :) if it can withstand that, its probably fine for a 3d printer.
Also just use red loctite. It will never come apart with aluminum fasteners.
mixing aluminium with carbon fiber can (and will) cause galvanic corosion, unles using spetial coatings to insulate the two materials it is to be avoided if you want things to last. titanium is the go to metal for part in contact with carbon fiber, as it has both a decent specific strength, and low galvanic reaction with carbon fiber
@@ValsVirtuals - Yes that is true - but only in the presence of high humidity or direct water contact. So a big problem in a car, boat or plane - not so much in a normal house with 50-70% humidity
Love the new videos!
Impressive. Great video. Thanks
Thank you :)
Belle job ! Bon vidéo ! Merci !
Merci :)
awesome results! the old F=ma does it again! But thinking about speed, should the temperature of the filament also be changed accordingly to get better quality when speed is this high?
You are crazy .. ! Well done 👌
this seems really cool! keep in mind that 3d printing using filament is low impact but not no impact. there still is resistance from the nozzle drag (it can be alleviated from a higher temp during run and lower temp during slow down for control. i would suggest first 3 layers ramp up speed and temp to work from a stable surface , and last layers slow down temp and speed. travel moves will likely be quick on this machine. also i have seen designs that just use the rails themselves as the x-bar. i would imaging a head crash would be expensive for those designs...
Yes, head crash are bad at those speeds. Luckily, using springs on the bed helps a lot. I totally get your point with nozzle drag. The speed profile needs to be adapted to the part being printed. Good point.
@@MirageC can you elaborate on this a bit more? one of you two? lol
Starting to get to Star Trek Replicator performance :) Awesome!
Dig the vid.... id be curious to see a print time comparison on a real print. Since depending on print there are a combination of moves. Like what might you save over what would normally be a 2hr or 10hr print etc. Great job.
Great suggestion!
Nice work
hey, very nice video, i‘m planning on upgrading my printer with a carbon replacement as well but there are nearly no videos i found yet. can you please talk a bit more about your extruder? it looks very interesting and i‘d like to learn more about it!
excellent video, subbed.
carbide burr style endmills work good in the milling machine for carbon fiber and G10, do it wet.
You can use less screws if rail be attached to carbon by glue - it's fine for sportcar too)
Plastic parts can be replaced with fiberglass or carbonfiber- you can print blank for it or modelling parts with slots for fiberglass cloth
You can try igus linear rails. They are aluminum and use plastic bushings. igus is pretty nice and can send you free sample kits and parts.
Look into oriental motor 5-phase steppers for a MUCH higher torque at higher RPMs.
They have servo rpm properties but with the responsiveness of steppers.
I was coming to say the same thing. The majority of the weight in the gantry now is in the MGN9 carbon steel rail. I'm not sure how well the Igus linear guides will work in this application (positional accuracy), but they are worth testing out since the rail is aluminum and will shave a great deal of weight there.
Best project!
I cant believe I never bumped into your channel !, this is amazing !, youre doing everything Ive wanted to do but i cant because of time and money... Ive been *concepting an upgrade to my, big, clumsy, wobbly CR10 S5 and I put some carbon fiber tubes on it, all in 3d max, nothing too profesional because max its my software and what im used to use for work.... glad to confirm its actually usefull, now in the litthe free time i got im sketching a sistem to exchange hotends with a quick release sistem, and a way to change the, in my opinion, ridiculous, process to change a nozzle, EVERYTHING ELSE TURNS !... ..... KEEP IT UP !, instantly subscribed bro !
Thanks for your comment! And good luck with your modifications :)
I did this with a round carbon tube, because it's more symmetrical so less to align, and probably less likely to twist.
hey man, great video! really inspired me to do so, but i little curious about the galvanic corrosion of the carbon fiber with the nuts, screw and the rail assembly. how this assembly going? notice any corrosion occur around a year interval from this video published? many thanks.
Also, instead of screws/bolts, could you use carbon rods glued in place? Might save some more grams but everything would be permanent..
The next step seems to be air bearings with a hose running to the printhead -> better friction, less weight of the axis, slightly more mass to be moved and some more noise...
The steel on the rail will still be contributing a good chunk of that weight. Could you drill some more holes into the rail to remove some weight?
Definitely look at the rail next it's probably half the mass of the gantry. Maybe you could skeletonize or see if there is a skeletonized magnesium option.
If you can get your yaxis in between instead on top you will reduce the mass rotation across the axis modern laser tech is using this ie eagle Fiber Laser
Olivier, it's great to see you opening an opportunity to financially support you!
Will there be a Patreon option, or at least a TH-cam Membership?
Pumphrey caught me of guard 😄
But yes... mo powa babe
Wow amazing video. Makes me wonder why the prusa mini is so slow... I built a custom 3d printer using an e3d direct drive hemera and it prints wayyy faster even with all the mass.
Smart trick 😍
Do you think you could get even faster speeds if you added some kind of gear system for the X/Y stepper motors?