That cross member was far more substantial than I imagined it would be. The final shot of the completed flat floor looks good. This is certainly a solution for those who wish to modify their vehicles for some purpose and have zero intention to use the rear seats. Whilst I await the details, it doesn't seem to be what I and perhaps a few others may want. In a nutshell, I'd like to have my cake and eat it; plus a cherry on top! I.e., that the rear seat fold upwards and forwards to allow a cavity for the backrests to fall flat (Like The Stig). That's the cake part and eating it. The cherry would be essentially a rear flush fitting shelf that matches the height of the folded backrest. Possibly with a drawer underneath to reach items easily. Since the drawer would be shallow, it could be a 3D printed plastic one as it would likely only hold light items or possibly the jack and tools seeing as they would now be harder to reach if a shelf was fitted. In any case, seeing the cross member and what it does, it is clear that the step is going to remain and indeed will have to for what I suggest. Thank you for sharing these videos Simon. They are very informative and despite having a Discovery 5, they do give me nuggets of ideas. One thing that I would also like to see is less polystyrene and more storage (I do have the detachable towbar stored under the floor in its dedicated space however).
Hi - glad you enjoyed the video - we are working on the "levelling up agenda" but just wanted to finish this project first - like you say by doing this we now understand how all the parts fit together so we can better understand the options.
Simon..I configured a 90 tonight and it came to £90,114….eek!! Seeing yours all apart frightens me but you are a brave man with the ability to put it back again…I’m not sure many owners would want to go so far. You say that beam is not structural but surely it adds twisting strength even if by accident more than design. Should there be some form of replacement beam to go back in after the floor conversion?? Good luck getting it all reassembled…then I can breathe again! 😱😱😱😵💫😵💫🤔😀😀😀😀
I have a 1995 Defender with Series body. I love watching you take apart the new Defender. But I cry when I see the _unnecessarily_ complicated car... There is a huge amount of engineering work in these many components - but I would appreciate it more if it had been designed to be simpler. (I hope I understand, a translator helped...)
Its good to see that aluminium bulkhead is purely for looks and serves no real structural operation within the car. That styrene block in the back hides much storage potential. Storage insert tray coming soon (for all JLR vehicles) we hope.
As you say, what a great way to understand more about how these are put together. If you can squeeze more storage from a revised boot tray that would be good, I’m storing an air compressor and battery jump kit by wedging in the gaps underneath.
I’ve seen a couple of U.S.A. 90’s where the rear seats and the aluminium brace bar have been removed and the seat system from the 7 seater 110 have been put in which would give you occasional use seats plus the flat floor, minus the aluminium bar - I don’t know how the converters res ECU red the rear seat seatbelts and pretensioners though.
Jon C has left a comment (idea) I fully support. I might add another idea: Could the rear bench be modified into 2 (or 3) pieces (40-60 or 40-20-40) in order to allow the rear seats fall flat but still offers the chance to have a 3rd (or 4th) passenger. The seat-pieces could be more easily stowed away than the whole bench with the benefit to have a 3rd seat.
Hi, just watched a TH-cam video showing how the rear lower bench seat can be detached in a Defender 90 to allow the rear seats to fold flat. He simply lifted the bench seat out of its retaining clips and put it the footwell. This allowed the rear seats to fall forward and flat. As it was so easy, would it not be possible to add hinges to the bench seat to allow it to be pulled forward for a more professional finish? Also, talking about rear seating, could the cross member (behind the seats in the boot,) be trimmed to be flush with the boot floor rather than having to remove most of the boot panels to remove it? It would be easier and cost significantly less and; it would still leave some cross member support! Finally, I like the alternative idea that others have shared, to install shallow storage drawers that run flush to the cross member as this would also deal with the cross member issue. Could be good secure storage if secured to the boot floor and lockable particularly if you enjoy country pursuits.
Maybe the rigidity of the cross member is because of passenger safety / crash test stuff and the fact that the rear seat buckles are connected to it. One interesting thing would be if the top part could be cut off (mainly the silver part) to add some rigidity again. Even though the chassis might be stable enough think of it like a roll-cage which also add additional strength. Finally it would also add some piece back to the bottom space where stuff can be mounted on.
I would also love to see a small box I could put in the back of the 90 that would bring it up to the level of the read seats so its (mostly) flat. Preferably with a little drawer in there so I can still use that space. Usually I just have to put something there to level it out. I'd also like to see an option for the area where the jack is, as there's actually a decent amount of wasted space under there and its just a piece of foam with some cut outs. It'd be great to have something that I could put in place of the foam with a few tie-downs to hold things in place if needed.
Fantastic videos and explanations, thank you. I’m not brave enough to go quite that far but have taken the base of the rear seat out and want to cut the wires for the rear seat heating and put in some quick connectors but I don’t know what rating of connectors would be safe - I would be very grateful if you were able to advise me.
@@L663 thanks sooo much, whole operation less than a minute, a great result. Would love a clever 3D printed box to fill all the wasted space under the jack kit and raising up to the top of the aluminium bar! Best regards, Simon
@@SimonBarkham We were looking at that today. The next stage is to remove the whole seat th-cam.com/video/1uwp7E3RiwU/w-d-xo.html I have not publicised this video too much - its a little controversial !
Thanks for that link to another illuminating video. I’ll go easy on the mint green connectors/catchers. What would be great is if the rear base seat was also divided into the same 40/20/40 split as the rear back rests so you could have a relatively flat (4-5degree) load surface and use a seat or two in the rear at the same time. Would also depend on where the seat connectors lined up! Is there someone you could recommend who could cut and reupholster the rear base seat so I could keep a useable seat or two while having some flat space?
@@L663 really glad to have found the link to removing the whole of the rear seat! Been scratching my head for ages on how to do this. Keep up the great and informative vids!!!
Update from LR - A convenient Loadspace Floor Tray (8) comes as standard on all Defender 90 models and Defender 130 eight seat. The new feature which includes internal storage enables a near flat loadspace floor and ensures that no space is wasted and access to D-loops is maintained. The new accessory is also available to existing Defender 90 and Defender 130 eight seat owners via their local retailer (8).
@@L663 yes unfortunately have to wait and the way things have been going wouldnt be surprised if its more like 2024. Any chance you can get an idea what it looks like or make your own version?
Another brilliant video, but will you not devalue it by converting it to commercial? Also will taking out the cross member not weaken the structural stability of the car?? And will you have to get it re registered with your car crowd? Love the 90, and it’s a great colour.
Hi Al - we are just doing this to see what can be done - we will convert the car back to original and sell the car at some point. I dont think the car constitutes a commercial .
@@L663 cheers Simon, oh sorry I thought you were going to do a conversation, I have to say you work so hard dissembling your fleet, makes for gaining a lot of knowledge and brilliant videos,, over here in Ireland a lot of cars were converted to commercial for tax reasons,
If one wants to go to the extent to remove that much wouldn't it be better to buy the commercial from start? The video though is insightful to see the amount of work involved.
You make a valid point - although the commercial does come with a bulkhead which is not idea if you have dogs for example or want to sleep in your car....It is only 2 hours of work and nothing that complex.
Simone, at the DC-DC converter, there is a constant 12 volt supply line and the other line is a 48 volt going out to the lithium battery. Would this be a good place to tap in for rear 12 volt power?
We are working on a conversion kit with metal brackets / metal brace / rubber matting / bolts and template but people would need to buy their own plywood.
We are working on 2 projects 1 - if you remove the seats a full flat floor DIY kit - Template / metal brackets / metal section / nuts and bolts / rubber sheet - you just buy the plywood 2 - a box with drawer for the rear area to make it flat - no need to remove seats etc ( just seat base cushion )
A flat boot floor could be achieved by making a rectangular box you insert in the area in front of the strip and by removing seat covers! It should be easy!
Hi pro I lost my activity key and my bcm damaged .I bought 1 but couldn't programing it .and I bought activity key from USA.i tried to programing it but I couldn't
Presumably the van version, the worlds most expensive van, has a flat floor? You need to borrow the one you had again and see how the floor is build in that.
Yes the van - I have the parts catalogue that shows the construction and its a bit complex - also i think the load area in my conversion is bigger as there is no bulkhead....
@@L663 I put it out to the larger US manufacturers but they are dragging their feet! I am sure apart from the aero dynamic benefits that it way help to deflect so materials from hitting the screen... Had one in every truck that I have owned here...
@@L663 thank you very much! So it seems like i actually did it right, maybe i have the same problem. I cant get the closing mechanism to open far enough (push down) to release the backrest. Ill have to look at it again later....
That cross member was far more substantial than I imagined it would be. The final shot of the completed flat floor looks good. This is certainly a solution for those who wish to modify their vehicles for some purpose and have zero intention to use the rear seats. Whilst I await the details, it doesn't seem to be what I and perhaps a few others may want. In a nutshell, I'd like to have my cake and eat it; plus a cherry on top! I.e., that the rear seat fold upwards and forwards to allow a cavity for the backrests to fall flat (Like The Stig). That's the cake part and eating it. The cherry would be essentially a rear flush fitting shelf that matches the height of the folded backrest. Possibly with a drawer underneath to reach items easily. Since the drawer would be shallow, it could be a 3D printed plastic one as it would likely only hold light items or possibly the jack and tools seeing as they would now be harder to reach if a shelf was fitted. In any case, seeing the cross member and what it does, it is clear that the step is going to remain and indeed will have to for what I suggest. Thank you for sharing these videos Simon. They are very informative and despite having a Discovery 5, they do give me nuggets of ideas. One thing that I would also like to see is less polystyrene and more storage (I do have the detachable towbar stored under the floor in its dedicated space however).
Hi - glad you enjoyed the video - we are working on the "levelling up agenda" but just wanted to finish this project first - like you say by doing this we now understand how all the parts fit together so we can better understand the options.
Simon..I configured a 90 tonight and it came to £90,114….eek!! Seeing yours all apart frightens me but you are a brave man with the ability to put it back again…I’m not sure many owners would want to go so far. You say that beam is not structural but surely it adds twisting strength even if by accident more than design. Should there be some form of replacement beam to go back in after the floor conversion?? Good luck getting it all reassembled…then I can breathe again! 😱😱😱😵💫😵💫🤔😀😀😀😀
I have a 1995 Defender with Series body.
I love watching you take apart the new Defender.
But I cry when I see the _unnecessarily_ complicated car...
There is a huge amount of engineering work in these many components - but I would appreciate it more if it had been designed to be simpler.
(I hope I understand, a translator helped...)
We understand you and many people will share your view.
Its good to see that aluminium bulkhead is purely for looks and serves no real structural operation within the car.
That styrene block in the back hides much storage potential. Storage insert tray coming soon (for all JLR vehicles) we hope.
As you say, what a great way to understand more about how these are put together. If you can squeeze more storage from a revised boot tray that would be good, I’m storing an air compressor and battery jump kit by wedging in the gaps underneath.
I’ve seen a couple of U.S.A. 90’s where the rear seats and the aluminium brace bar have been removed and the seat system from the 7 seater 110 have been put in which would give you occasional use seats plus the flat floor, minus the aluminium bar - I don’t know how the converters res ECU red the rear seat seatbelts and pretensioners though.
Jon C has left a comment (idea) I fully support.
I might add another idea:
Could the rear bench be modified into 2 (or 3) pieces (40-60 or 40-20-40) in order to allow the rear seats fall flat but still offers the chance to have a 3rd (or 4th) passenger.
The seat-pieces could be more easily stowed away than the whole bench with the benefit to have a 3rd seat.
You never did a video on the removal of the Defender 90 back seat! Anxious to see…
Here we go - did not publish widely due to the cross member problem....
th-cam.com/video/1uwp7E3RiwU/w-d-xo.html
Hi. Will you be offering a flat floor conversion service for the 90 ? Cheers. Richard.
Would love to see you guys remove the third row from the 130!
Hi, just watched a TH-cam video showing how the rear lower bench seat can be detached in a Defender 90 to allow the rear seats to fold flat. He simply lifted the bench seat out of its retaining clips and put it the footwell. This allowed the rear seats to fall forward and flat. As it was so easy, would it not be possible to add hinges to the bench seat to allow it to be pulled forward for a more professional finish?
Also, talking about rear seating, could the cross member (behind the seats in the boot,) be trimmed to be flush with the boot floor rather than having to remove most of the boot panels to remove it?
It would be easier and cost significantly less and; it would still leave some cross member support!
Finally, I like the alternative idea that others have shared, to install shallow storage drawers that run flush to the cross member as this would also deal with the cross member issue. Could be good secure storage if secured to the boot floor and lockable particularly if you enjoy country pursuits.
Maybe the rigidity of the cross member is because of passenger safety / crash test stuff and the fact that the rear seat buckles are connected to it. One interesting thing would be if the top part could be cut off (mainly the silver part) to add some rigidity again. Even though the chassis might be stable enough think of it like a roll-cage which also add additional strength. Finally it would also add some piece back to the bottom space where stuff can be mounted on.
Honestly, the weird aluminium bit is the only thing keeping me from putting in an order on a 90.
It really is a mystery to me why it was designed in this way.
Can you not make a simple box to insert in order to make the boot level?
@@midlandgeordie really hope so 🤞
Me again lol. Desperate to be able to do this
@@midlandgeordielandrover just announced they will have this next year
I've been waiting for some one to make use of the wasted foam (with the jack) in the boot space of the D90. I'd be all ears for something like that.
Is it possible to mount the Seat further forwart or make fhe bacrest teeper to get more trunk space . Greatings fromGermany😊
I would also love to see a small box I could put in the back of the 90 that would bring it up to the level of the read seats so its (mostly) flat. Preferably with a little drawer in there so I can still use that space. Usually I just have to put something there to level it out. I'd also like to see an option for the area where the jack is, as there's actually a decent amount of wasted space under there and its just a piece of foam with some cut outs. It'd be great to have something that I could put in place of the foam with a few tie-downs to hold things in place if needed.
Apparently Land Rover are releasing a rear box at the end of the year to level the rear floor ..
Fantastic videos and explanations, thank you. I’m not brave enough to go quite that far but have taken the base of the rear seat out and want to cut the wires for the rear seat heating and put in some quick connectors but I don’t know what rating of connectors would be safe - I would be very grateful if you were able to advise me.
They have connectors if you follow the wires back a little further
@@L663 thanks sooo much, whole operation less than a minute, a great result. Would love a clever 3D printed box to fill all the wasted space under the jack kit and raising up to the top of the aluminium bar! Best regards, Simon
@@SimonBarkham We were looking at that today.
The next stage is to remove the whole seat
th-cam.com/video/1uwp7E3RiwU/w-d-xo.html
I have not publicised this video too much - its a little controversial !
Thanks for that link to another illuminating video. I’ll go easy on the mint green connectors/catchers. What would be great is if the rear base seat was also divided into the same 40/20/40 split as the rear back rests so you could have a relatively flat (4-5degree) load surface and use a seat or two in the rear at the same time. Would also depend on where the seat connectors lined up! Is there someone you could recommend who could cut and reupholster the rear base seat so I could keep a useable seat or two while having some flat space?
@@L663 really glad to have found the link to removing the whole of the rear seat! Been scratching my head for ages on how to do this. Keep up the great and informative vids!!!
Update from LR - A convenient Loadspace Floor Tray (8) comes as standard on all Defender 90 models and Defender 130 eight seat. The new feature which includes internal storage enables a near flat loadspace floor and ensures that no space is wasted and access to D-loops is maintained. The new accessory is also available to existing Defender 90 and Defender 130 eight seat owners via their local retailer (8).
thanks for sharing but this is only available late 2023 !
@@L663 yes unfortunately have to wait and the way things have been going wouldnt be surprised if its more like 2024. Any chance you can get an idea what it looks like or make your own version?
Another brilliant video, but will you not devalue it by converting it to commercial? Also will taking out the cross member not weaken the structural stability of the car?? And will you have to get it re registered with your car crowd? Love the 90, and it’s a great colour.
Hi Al - we are just doing this to see what can be done - we will convert the car back to original and sell the car at some point.
I dont think the car constitutes a commercial .
@@L663 cheers Simon, oh sorry I thought you were going to do a conversation, I have to say you work so hard dissembling your fleet, makes for gaining a lot of knowledge and brilliant videos,, over here in Ireland a lot of cars were converted to commercial for tax reasons,
If one wants to go to the extent to remove that much wouldn't it be better to buy the commercial from start? The video though is insightful to see the amount of work involved.
You make a valid point - although the commercial does come with a bulkhead which is not idea if you have dogs for example or want to sleep in your car....It is only 2 hours of work and nothing that complex.
You must try to put a FlexCab ( by Snoeks Automotive ) as 2e row.
can the crossmember be removed without removing the rigidity of the vehicle
Yes i believe so as the commercial does not have this crossmember.
Please work on a solution for a lock gas cap for the new Defender.
I have the circuit boards being made now !
Simone, at the DC-DC converter, there is a constant 12 volt supply line and the other line is a 48 volt going out to the lithium battery. Would this be a good place to tap in for rear 12 volt power?
Unless you are needing loads of power I would stay away from these... you have the rear fuse box and the tow bar connector all available.
Good point.
Where do you get access to the workshop manual Simon? I could do with looking at one for the disco sport
Look up "Land Rover Topix" and you can pay for access.
Nice job 🚗🚙🚘👍👍👍👍⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
Thank you 👍
Good news Please let me know when you have it completed. Congratulations on your videos.
We are working on a conversion kit with metal brackets / metal brace / rubber matting / bolts and template but people would need to buy their own plywood.
Can you not make a simple box to insert in order to make the boot level?
We are working on 2 projects
1 - if you remove the seats a full flat floor DIY kit - Template / metal brackets / metal section / nuts and bolts / rubber sheet - you just buy the plywood
2 - a box with drawer for the rear area to make it flat - no need to remove seats etc ( just seat base cushion )
A flat boot floor could be achieved by making a rectangular box you insert in the area in front of the strip and by removing seat covers!
It should be easy!
@@L663 Great - please let us know once this is available
Is this steel springs or air suspension?
This is the top of the range Model X with air suspension
Hi pro I lost my activity key and my bcm damaged .I bought 1 but couldn't programing it .and I bought activity key from USA.i tried to programing it but I couldn't
IS this a new Defender ?
What region are you in ? USA ? UK ?
@@L663 velare 2020 I am from Algerian
Presumably the van version, the worlds most expensive van, has a flat floor?
You need to borrow the one you had again and see how the floor is build in that.
Yes the van - I have the parts catalogue that shows the construction and its a bit complex - also i think the load area in my conversion is bigger as there is no bulkhead....
Boom Boom!! 💥
Now we have totally dismantled our new 90 its time to put it back together !
@@L663 Indeed! Have you looked at producing a US style Bug and stone shield for the front yet?
@@ecossearthur We have a lot of requests for this now !
@@L663 I put it out to the larger US manufacturers but they are dragging their feet! I am sure apart from the aero dynamic benefits that it way help to deflect so materials from hitting the screen... Had one in every truck that I have owned here...
Missing link for side trim video😄
Thanks - fixed now !
I want to remove the rear seats but I have problems to remove the backrest can someone help me?
Not made public yet but take a look at this video
th-cam.com/video/1uwp7E3RiwU/w-d-xo.html
@@L663 thank you very much! So it seems like i actually did it right, maybe i have the same problem. I cant get the closing mechanism to open far enough (push down) to release the backrest. Ill have to look at it again later....
❤❤👍👍🙏🙏🇬🇧
Доброго здоров'я привіт з Одеси Україна.
Stay safe ! Also I hope you have power and heating. The free world is supporting you.
No wonder they cost so much with so much unnecessary complex design. Maybe a Grenadier is a more sensible solution??
We have yet to actually see a Grenadier !
Simon. See what FISH13 fitted in that area in his 90. One of his vids on his channel. Cheers. 👍🏻🙏🦘
I need to watch more of Fish 13