It appears most of the modifications you made were damping the sensitivity of the system e.g. Removing the balanced profile of the pendulum, the bungee on the connection to the tiller, the cord limiting the Vane to 45 degrees and, although you don't have it in this video, a bungee connected to the top of the trailing edge of the pendulum. Really useful information for when it arrives. Thanks a bunch for taking us through the process and showing us the modifications you needed.
I'm now back to using the balanced profile pendulum, but with the bungee (described as "optional" in the plans I had, but turned out not to be!) For an update, see th-cam.com/video/kkT27vR6yoM/w-d-xo.html
31:00 Yes, the main advantage with a human pilot is that you can correct for the swell before it arrives. Though I would probably prefer a tiller, I don't mind the wheel in the trade winds, as I can stand forward of the pedestal facing aft and see what's coming my way, which also keeps me in the shade of the Bimini - my gallows make a great attachment point for a permanent soft Bimini. I look forward to sailing with the hydrovane, as it has an auxiliary rudder, so when I feel like helming I can just assist the hydrovane without disengaging it. Another nice feature is the ability to use it as an emergency rudder. Very seamanlike. I can see at least one way that can be achieved with yours, I'm sure you can too, so I won't patronise you by explaining. But perhaps it is something to consider? Also, have you tried connecting the steering lines closer to the rudder shaft? Or does it not have enough power?
By the way I won't feel at all offended if you explain things I happen to already know. Extra details are always welcome, for a start, and there may be other people along to read our conversation and gain from it.
John Fleming (the designer) has uploaded some great videos of the Hebridean in action on his channel here: th-cam.com/channels/BWXQjUjXwV2bWZ7sWn448Q.html
I was going to build my own windsteering, I have many pages of designs in my notebook and was about to start building, then I got hold of a 40year old hydrovane for the price of a surfboard and laser jet printer. Obviously I am happy with the deal, but I had been looking forward to building my own design.
Thanks for this great video..very informative. I have an 12 metre double ender ketch with a lot helm pressure and a lot of weather helm...wondering if you think it would handle that.....
Hello! I'm by no means an expert on fitting the Hebridean to different kinds of boats, but the instructions for the Hebridean do warn that the boat should be reasonably balanced. The Hebridean is capable of exerting plenty of force on the tiller, but you do want its neutral position to be relaxed when you're on course. At the time of this video Tammy Norie was suffering from balance problems and weather helm (which I've reduced a lot, see tammynorie.wordpress.com/2017/09/25/a-new-mast-step/ ) and I think this contributed to some the problems you see here. You don't mention your rig, but with a conventional rig you should be able to balance the boat on most courses, even if you're just sheeting in your foresails and reefing your main. If you have a double ender with a stern-hung rudder you'll need to construct a mount that puts the Hebridean aft of the rudder. You can see some examples of this in the gallery at windvaneselfsteering.co.uk/gallery.htm . I have seen Hebridean mounts that do this. But be aware this puts the Hebridean well behind the rudder and makes it very difficult to adjust without climbing over the rail. The person I know that did this made a remote control system using a worm gear. John Fleming now makes a similar remote control and it's likely that you'd need it. I advise you to get in touch with John via windvaneselfsteering.co.uk/ and ask him to put you in touch with people with similar boats to yours. Personally, if I had a double-ender with a stern hung rudder I'd think about building trim-tab self-steering with a vane mounted on the rudder itself -- this kind of thing www.offshore-sailor.com/media/1424/trim-tab-gear-annot.jpg -- but find a working model! Also take a look at my later video th-cam.com/video/kkT27vR6yoM/w-d-xo.html for and update on this one.
Great video, thanks for all the info. I am considering the Hebridean for my Islander 28. Just from observation why don’t you rotate one of the wind vane adjustment bolts 180degress? That way there is a wing nut on opposite sides. I would guess you really only need to loosen one to rotate the vane and this would mean one is always easy to reach.
Matt Thompson The plate opposite the wing nuts also acts to stop the bolts rotating, so it's not quite so simple. But something along those lines might work. John Fleming's new kits are considerably less work to put together than mine.
Am presently building 'Hebridean' , have struggled quite a bit with instructions but finally getting there, your video has been a great help, is there an advantage to using outriggers as opposed to not using them? Thanks.
Hi. Sorry for the slow reply. There is no room for the outriggers on Tammy Norie's stern. She's a very small boat (6m) and they would collide with the pushpit rail and with the stern light. Because I have the drogue attachment points (disscussed here tammynorie.wordpress.com/2014/08/20/rubbing-strake-and-series-drogue/ ) I was able to use them to get similar amounts of movement without the outriggers. If you're unsure, I suggest you ask John!
Given the time and effort you have put in to get the Hebridean to work would you not have been better off buying a second hand system such as a sea feather which would work straight away.
Firstly, I don't think any system works "straight away". It takes practice to get used to it and tune it for the boat (at least, that is what I've been told). But no, I *chose* to build a system myself even though it would take effort, because (a) I wanted to build one; (b) I wanted to *understand* everything about it, and (c) I wanted a system I could maintain myself, in remote places, with basic materials. It was quite a lot of work, but it was very rewarding and I'm glad I did it.
you look far more rocky than you were with the self steering , to me the self steering was averaging everything out you were reacting to everything makes life tiring and uncomfortable persist with the self steering eventually everything will get sorted the more you use and tweet the better it will get try a different shaped blade, a friend had the back of the blade nearest the boat carved away and stuck on the trailing edge , i don't remember which sort he had but it worked for him
+Peter JOHNSON Yes, I think that's right. The more accurate course comes at the cost of more rocking of the boat. My crew mentioned exactly the same thing. The boat yaws more with the self steering but the average course is fine and it's more comfortable.
Hello Peter. After this trip I returned to work, and unfortunately fell ill in late April and wasn't able to get sailing until late July. I can report that I hooked up the Hebridean several times this year and it worked very well, but I haven't had any long runs with it since this video. I did meet John Fleming a the Beaulieu Boat Jumble in the spring, and we had a very good chat.
Yes. As well as ever. The American White Oak is standing up very well to the weather, sea, and neglect. There's a bit of rust on the stainless parts. Please see my other video "The worthy Hebridean" th-cam.com/video/kkT27vR6yoM/w-d-xo.html for a follow-up. Everything I said there is still true. It takes me a little while to get myself in tune with it in the spring, but it is very reliable.
It appears most of the modifications you made were damping the sensitivity of the system e.g. Removing the balanced profile of the pendulum, the bungee on the connection to the tiller, the cord limiting the Vane to 45 degrees and, although you don't have it in this video, a bungee connected to the top of the trailing edge of the pendulum. Really useful information for when it arrives. Thanks a bunch for taking us through the process and showing us the modifications you needed.
I'm now back to using the balanced profile pendulum, but with the bungee (described as "optional" in the plans I had, but turned out not to be!) For an update, see th-cam.com/video/kkT27vR6yoM/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for recording so much information, it will be a great help to me with my Hebridean set-up.
31:00 Yes, the main advantage with a human pilot is that you can correct for the swell before it arrives. Though I would probably prefer a tiller, I don't mind the wheel in the trade winds, as I can stand forward of the pedestal facing aft and see what's coming my way, which also keeps me in the shade of the Bimini - my gallows make a great attachment point for a permanent soft Bimini.
I look forward to sailing with the hydrovane, as it has an auxiliary rudder, so when I feel like helming I can just assist the hydrovane without disengaging it.
Another nice feature is the ability to use it as an emergency rudder. Very seamanlike. I can see at least one way that can be achieved with yours, I'm sure you can too, so I won't patronise you by explaining. But perhaps it is something to consider?
Also, have you tried connecting the steering lines closer to the rudder shaft? Or does it not have enough power?
It's definitely one of my emergency steering options. I also carry oars.
By the way I won't feel at all offended if you explain things I happen to already know. Extra details are always welcome, for a start, and there may be other people along to read our conversation and gain from it.
John Fleming (the designer) has uploaded some great videos of the Hebridean in action on his channel here: th-cam.com/channels/BWXQjUjXwV2bWZ7sWn448Q.html
I was going to build my own windsteering, I have many pages of designs in my notebook and was about to start building, then I got hold of a 40year old hydrovane for the price of a surfboard and laser jet printer. Obviously I am happy with the deal, but I had been looking forward to building my own design.
Thanks for this great video..very informative. I have an 12 metre double ender ketch with a lot helm pressure and a lot of weather helm...wondering if you think it would handle that.....
Hello! I'm by no means an expert on fitting the Hebridean to different kinds of boats, but the instructions for the Hebridean do warn that the boat should be reasonably balanced. The Hebridean is capable of exerting plenty of force on the tiller, but you do want its neutral position to be relaxed when you're on course. At the time of this video Tammy Norie was suffering from balance problems and weather helm (which I've reduced a lot, see tammynorie.wordpress.com/2017/09/25/a-new-mast-step/ ) and I think this contributed to some the problems you see here. You don't mention your rig, but with a conventional rig you should be able to balance the boat on most courses, even if you're just sheeting in your foresails and reefing your main.
If you have a double ender with a stern-hung rudder you'll need to construct a mount that puts the Hebridean aft of the rudder. You can see some examples of this in the gallery at windvaneselfsteering.co.uk/gallery.htm . I have seen Hebridean mounts that do this. But be aware this puts the Hebridean well behind the rudder and makes it very difficult to adjust without climbing over the rail. The person I know that did this made a remote control system using a worm gear. John Fleming now makes a similar remote control and it's likely that you'd need it.
I advise you to get in touch with John via windvaneselfsteering.co.uk/ and ask him to put you in touch with people with similar boats to yours.
Personally, if I had a double-ender with a stern hung rudder I'd think about building trim-tab self-steering with a vane mounted on the rudder itself -- this kind of thing www.offshore-sailor.com/media/1424/trim-tab-gear-annot.jpg -- but find a working model!
Also take a look at my later video th-cam.com/video/kkT27vR6yoM/w-d-xo.html for and update on this one.
Great video, thanks for all the info. I am considering the Hebridean for my Islander 28. Just from observation why don’t you rotate one of the wind vane adjustment bolts 180degress? That way there is a wing nut on opposite sides. I would guess you really only need to loosen one to rotate the vane and this would mean one is always easy to reach.
Matt Thompson The plate opposite the wing nuts also acts to stop the bolts rotating, so it's not quite so simple. But something along those lines might work. John Fleming's new kits are considerably less work to put together than mine.
Am presently building 'Hebridean' , have struggled quite a bit with instructions but finally getting there, your video has been a great help, is there an advantage to using outriggers as opposed to not using them? Thanks.
Hi. Sorry for the slow reply. There is no room for the outriggers on Tammy Norie's stern. She's a very small boat (6m) and they would collide with the pushpit rail and with the stern light. Because I have the drogue attachment points (disscussed here tammynorie.wordpress.com/2014/08/20/rubbing-strake-and-series-drogue/ ) I was able to use them to get similar amounts of movement without the outriggers. If you're unsure, I suggest you ask John!
nice vid...thanks
Jason Cox-Rogers Thanks! Do watch th-cam.com/video/kkT27vR6yoM/w-d-xo.html for a recent update.
Given the time and effort you have put in to get the Hebridean to work would you not have been better off buying a second hand system such as a sea feather which would work straight away.
Firstly, I don't think any system works "straight away". It takes practice to get used to it and tune it for the boat (at least, that is what I've been told). But no, I *chose* to build a system myself even though it would take effort, because (a) I wanted to build one; (b) I wanted to *understand* everything about it, and (c) I wanted a system I could maintain myself, in remote places, with basic materials. It was quite a lot of work, but it was very rewarding and I'm glad I did it.
you look far more rocky than you were with the self steering , to me the self steering was averaging everything out you were reacting to everything makes life tiring and uncomfortable
persist with the self steering eventually everything will get sorted the more you use and tweet the better it will get
try a different shaped blade, a friend had the back of the blade nearest the boat carved away and stuck on the trailing edge , i don't remember which sort he had but it worked for him
+Peter JOHNSON Yes, I think that's right. The more accurate course comes at the cost of more rocking of the boat. My crew mentioned exactly the same thing. The boat yaws more with the self steering but the average course is fine and it's more comfortable.
hi have you managed to get any more improvment on self steering pete
Hello Peter. After this trip I returned to work, and unfortunately fell ill in late April and wasn't able to get sailing until late July. I can report that I hooked up the Hebridean several times this year and it worked very well, but I haven't had any long runs with it since this video. I did meet John Fleming a the Beaulieu Boat Jumble in the spring, and we had a very good chat.
Peter JOHNSON As an update to this, please see th-cam.com/video/kkT27vR6yoM/w-d-xo.html
Is this unit still working
Yes. As well as ever. The American White Oak is standing up very well to the weather, sea, and neglect. There's a bit of rust on the stainless parts. Please see my other video "The worthy Hebridean" th-cam.com/video/kkT27vR6yoM/w-d-xo.html for a follow-up. Everything I said there is still true. It takes me a little while to get myself in tune with it in the spring, but it is very reliable.
@@TammyNorie thank you for the reply I hope all is well. Happy holidays