Funnily enough, the hypothetical you posed in which you imagined "1000s of men in public being murdered by men", implying that men would care more about the issue if it primarily effected them... I say it's funny because you apparently don't know that 79% OF ALL HOMICIDE VICTIMS ARE MALE, THAT WASN'T A HYPOTHETICAL, IT WAS A DESCRIPTION OF THE STATISTICAL REALITY OF VIOLENCE. Jesus Christ, the ignorance on display here is so unbelievably frustrating to listen to.
Thank you, Imperfects, for being so courageously vulnerable here. I'm on the edge of tears. We so rarely hear men caring about, or even acknowledging, how unsafe the world can feel for women.
Funnily enough, the hypothetical you posed in which you imagined "1000s of men in public being murdered by men", implying that men would care more about the issue if it primarily effected them... I say it's funny because you apparently don't know that 79% OF ALL HOMICIDE VICTIMS ARE MALE, THAT WASN'T A HYPOTHETICAL, IT WAS A DESCRIPTION OF THE STATISTICAL REALITY OF VIOLENCE. Jesus Christ, the ignorance on display here is so unbelievably frustrating to listen to.
@@thewayneflyinghigh9128 Whatever you've been through, or whatever your friends or relations have had endure, I am very sorry for it. Of course, all violence is wrong, and all men have a right to feel safe. Caring about women's safety is part of caring for the safety of all people. I have sometimes put my safety at risk to protect men in vulnerable situations, and I would do so again.
It was great to see that you all took on board what your partners said and openly discussed it. We need more of these conversations. Many men assume they don't know men who abuse women, but they do, and that is something we need men to be more aware of. Comedian Daniel Sloss said it best, "There are monsters among us, and they look like us". Denial can be pretty comfortable, but it doesn't help create change. These conversations help model and teach our kids what is acceptable and not acceptable. You are right; we don't want to shame men who are abusive; as frustrating as that might feel, we want them to get help to manage their emotions. Men often respond with, "But what about the women who abuse men?" I know that comment will come up, which often derails and shuts the conversation down. It becomes a tit-for-tat. I absolutely understand why men say it. We know that is a problem that needs to be dealt with, BUT these conversations need to be had independently, and I'm really grateful that you have done that with this conversation. Well done guys. It may feel like many don't appreciate it, and that its not a big deal, but please remember, many women have been speaking out about this for 20-30+ years, and sadly, the trauma still lives inside many of them.
Funnily enough, the hypothetical you posed in which you imagined "1000s of men in public being murdered by men", implying that men would care more about the issue if it primarily effected them... I say it's funny because you apparently don't know that 79% OF ALL HOMICIDE VICTIMS ARE MALE, THAT WASN'T A HYPOTHETICAL, IT WAS A DESCRIPTION OF THE STATISTICAL REALITY OF VIOLENCE. Jesus Christ, the ignorance on display here is so unbelievably frustrating to listen to. And this pretense that a man who abuses women is just "an average dude" is BULLSHIT, to be so deranged and pathetic as such a man necessarily would be would mark every aspect of his life and character; he would be insecure in himself to such a degree that to even vaguely offend him would almost certainly provoke the same kind of defensive violence that manifests in his domestic abuse, at the very least he wouldn't be the kinda guy any sane person would be interested in developing a friendship with. The notion that the violence of violent men is the result of his being ignorant to "what is acceptable and not acceptable" is to completely misunderstand and trivialize the reality and psychology of abuse, abusers aren't abusive because they are somehow of the mind that inflicting violence upon women is okay, they're abusive BECAUSE THEY KNOW IT'S NOT OKAY AND INTEND TO CAUSE HARM. You can't shame men who are abusive, such men already loathe themselves to a degree that no one could possibly rival from without, thus the only effect these "conversations" are going to have is to make men and boys ruminate upon solving a problem which THEY ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO SOLVE BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. This narrative has made virtue and self-interest appear conspicuous to men, and most catastrophically, to boys who will grow up repressing whatever in themselves they perceive as masculine due to the shame of feeling fundamentally, yet inadvertently and ambiguously, "dangerous" to women and girls. This whole fucking "conversation" is grotesque, and quite contrary to the intended outcome, I guarantee it will only make the problem worse... we're creating so many more existentially insecure men than would have existed before we decided to deliberately inculcate such insecurities at the level of education and culture; whoever thinks the solution is "teaching" boys to "respect" girls isn't entirely wrong, of course they have overlooked the rather significant consideration that: boys who have no respect for THEMSELVES will be incapable of relating respect for OTHERS.
This conversation brought me to tears. I live in South Africa which has even worse rates of gender based violence. Every day there are more of us r@p3d, k!ll3d, missing. Men never talk about it except defensively or while blaming the victims, or as fuel for a racist or xenophobic rant.
Hugh, Josh and Ryan, thank you! Thank you for starting this conversation, thank you for your courage, thank you for ripping part of the band-aid off. Penny is right; it is terrifying being a woman in Australia and New Zealand, no doubt elsewhere in the world too. I’m terrified everyday for my adult daughter’s safety (she has an intellectual disability), terrified for my adult son’s safety who flys daily between NZ and AU (he lost a colleague last month from a well publicised violent murder) and I’m terrified everyday for my safety as an early 50’s woman. There’s no way it’s safe to walk, run, ride, swim, shop on my own anymore. Going from a strong independent woman to a woman who now can’t do many things independently anymore simply because of a shift in society… it’s truly devastating and impacts our overall wellbeing regardless of whether we personally have been disrespected, assaulted, abused etc or not. Please keep using your strong voices to increase this very important korero (conversation). Kia kaha (be strong)
Kia ora Jen. I am a kiwi living in Aus specifically in a regional town in Vic where there has recently been three tragic murders of woman. I am more careful now, I won't jog after dark and during the day I stick to tracks or roads where I know there are plenty of people. Right or wrong I have always been careful of my safety, ie. looking over my shoulder, avoiding areas with no light or people, being aware of my surroundings... But I wouldn't say I'm terrified, I think it is safe to walk, run, ride, swim and shop. As per John's comments below, statistically I am actually more at risk from attack from men I have known or know due to domestic violence. I'm sorry you feel that you can't do things independently anymore, that is very sad. I also have a teenage daughter and it concerns me how this fear is affecting our young people, she then closes herself off and consumes trashy media which only feeds the cycle more. I believe the things we can do to help ourselves the most as women (men and children also) is develop situational awareness and perceptional skills when it comes to people. ie. if an odd looking, perhaps intimidating man is coming towards me on the street, I will not cross the street, I will give him my full attention, look him in the eye and either greet him or smile at him. I think the bondi stabbings are terrible and tragic but they are not the norm, we don't have to avoid shopping centres, this does not happen regularly in australia. Yes he did seem to target women but whether this is because he had a vendetta or maybe he simply was just so incredibly unwell his mind had fabricated a story, or may he went for the easiest, closest targets... we will never know.. It is just so incredibly sad. Due to the nature of social media these random incidents of violence, whilst it seems like they are more frequent than ever before, are in fact just more readily available to us which flood our senses with fear and anxiety. Wishing you and your family peace and safety.
@@LouiseWorth well said. Our sanity depends on our responses. Prayers of peace for our women who are feeling as unsafe as 5357 xo. We live in a real world, and need to be aware, not fearful. It is fear that will take us down x
Funnily enough, the hypothetical you posed in which you imagined "1000s of men in public being murdered by men", implying that men would care more about the issue if it primarily effected them... I say it's funny because you apparently don't know that 79% OF ALL HOMICIDE VICTIMS ARE MALE, THAT WASN'T A HYPOTHETICAL, IT WAS A DESCRIPTION OF THE STATISTICAL REALITY OF VIOLENCE. Jesus Christ, the ignorance on display here is so unbelievably frustrating to listen to. And this pretense that a man who abuses women is just "an average dude" is BULLSHIT, to be so deranged and pathetic as such a man necessarily would be would mark every aspect of his life and character; he would be insecure in himself to such a degree that to even vaguely offend him would almost certainly provoke the same kind of defensive violence that manifests in his domestic abuse, at the very least he wouldn't be the kinda guy any sane person would be interested in developing a friendship with. The notion that the violence of violent men is the result of his being ignorant to "what is acceptable and not acceptable" is to completely misunderstand and trivialize the reality and psychology of abuse, abusers aren't abusive because they are somehow of the mind that inflicting violence upon women is okay, they're abusive BECAUSE THEY KNOW IT'S NOT OKAY AND INTEND TO CAUSE HARM. You can't shame men who are abusive, such men already loathe themselves to a degree that no one could possibly rival from without, thus the only effect these "conversations" are going to have is to make men and boys ruminate upon solving a problem which THEY ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO SOLVE BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. This narrative has made virtue and self-interest appear conspicuous to men, and most catastrophically, to boys who will grow up repressing whatever in themselves they perceive as masculine due to the shame of feeling fundamentally, yet inadvertently and ambiguously, "dangerous" to women and girls. This whole fucking "conversation" is grotesque, and quite contrary to the intended outcome, I guarantee it will only make the problem worse... we're creating so many more existentially insecure men than would have existed before we decided to deliberately inculcate such insecurities at the level of education and culture; whoever thinks the solution is "teaching" boys to "respect" girls isn't entirely wrong, of course they have overlooked the rather significant consideration that: boys who have no respect for THEMSELVES will be incapable of relating respect for OTHERS.
It occurs to me, listening to this, that I _think_ about this issue (and, to some degree, talk with the women in my life about it) a lot more than I _have conversations_ about it (even with the women in my life). Perhaps it would be wise for me to change that, and talk about it more. Thank you for the inspiration on that front, and for talking about this.
@@thewayneflyinghigh9128 I figure there are two possibilities, here: (1) you're genuinely asking, because you're concerned about real issues that men (uniquely) face, or (2) you're engaging in misogynist trolling. Hopefully it's obvious what I think of the latter behavior. As to the former, I honestly think one of the best ways to get some of those issues addressed is for men to engage with feminism. I think you'll find that while those issues aren't always at the forefront of feminist conversation, feminists (women or otherwise) do actually care about those issues, too, even _from a feminist perspective_ ... so... what I'll point out is that I have no problem with (the sincere form) of having these discussions, doing so in a space that's oriented towards talking about issues women are facing is potentially a derailing tactic (intentionally or otherwise), and I believe the effects of engaging in such are that it ultimately harms men (as well as women), and so I'd advise against it. There are women and men (and enbies, etc.) out there seriously engaging with these topics. Go find them, and have those conversations there. Not sure if I've completely articulated well the direct answer to your question, but... hopefully you can tease it out.
It’s enlightening to see men discussing this issue. I hold Hugh in high regard; his book has been a repeat read for me. The unease I felt after listening to a recent episode prompted me to share my thoughts. As a woman in Australia, I usually feel safe. I have a loving partner and a fulfilling life. Yet, the recent tragedy in Sydney has deeply shaken me, impacting me as a person, not just as a woman. I’ve always enjoyed my evening fitness walks around 6 p.m. in Queensland, where it’s already dark due to no daylight saving time. Before this episode, I never feared walking alone. However, the narrative seemed to imply that as a woman in Australia, I should be fearful, which has since made my walks unsettling and left me constantly looking over my shoulder. My concern is whether, in our attempt to combat violence against women, we are unintentionally fostering unnecessary fear. Why categorize violence as “against women” rather than just calling it violence, crime, or harassment? Although statistics show women are often victims, is this due to our gender, or is it because the offenders are criminals, abusers, or individuals with unresolved mental health issues? While I’ve struggled to find statistics on women killed in random crimes, the increase in women killed by intimate partners in 2024 is alarming. I empathize deeply with women in abusive relationships, but I cherish my secure and happy life. I want to continue walking freely in my neighbourhood without the fear of random violence. This episode has unfortunately marred that experience for me. In the aftermath of the Sydney tragedy, the media often depicts women as vulnerable, perpetuating the idea that our gender should inherently feel fear. This dialogue is crucial, but can we shift the focus from the narrative that women are inherently weak and vulnerable? It seems the media also sends a message to potential offenders that crimes against women are somehow easier to commit and get away with.
Funnily enough, the hypothetical you posed in which you imagined "1000s of men in public being murdered by men", implying that men would care more about the issue if it primarily effected them... I say it's funny because you apparently don't know that 79% OF ALL HOMICIDE VICTIMS ARE MALE, THAT WASN'T A HYPOTHETICAL, IT WAS A DESCRIPTION OF THE STATISTICAL REALITY OF VIOLENCE. Jesus Christ, the ignorance on display here is so unbelievably frustrating to listen to. And this pretense that a man who abuses women is just "an average dude" is BULLSHIT, to be so deranged and pathetic as such a man necessarily would be would mark every aspect of his life and character; he would be insecure in himself to such a degree that to even vaguely offend him would almost certainly provoke the same kind of defensive violence that manifests in his domestic abuse, at the very least he wouldn't be the kinda guy any sane person would be interested in developing a friendship with. The notion that the violence of violent men is the result of his being ignorant to "what is acceptable and not acceptable" is to completely misunderstand and trivialize the reality and psychology of abuse, abusers aren't abusive because they are somehow of the mind that inflicting violence upon women is okay, they're abusive BECAUSE THEY KNOW IT'S NOT OKAY AND INTEND TO CAUSE HARM. You can't shame men who are abusive, such men already loathe themselves to a degree that no one could possibly rival from without, thus the only effect these "conversations" are going to have is to make men and boys ruminate upon solving a problem which THEY ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO SOLVE BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. This narrative has made virtue and self-interest appear conspicuous to men, and most catastrophically, to boys who will grow up repressing whatever in themselves they perceive as masculine due to the shame of feeling fundamentally, yet inadvertently and ambiguously, "dangerous" to women and girls. This whole fucking "conversation" is grotesque, and quite contrary to the intended outcome, I guarantee it will only make the problem worse... we're creating so many more existentially insecure men than would have existed before we decided to deliberately inculcate such insecurities at the level of education and culture; whoever thinks the solution is "teaching" boys to "respect" girls isn't entirely wrong, of course they have overlooked the rather significant consideration that: boys who have no respect for THEMSELVES will be incapable of relating respect for OTHERS.
From all that has happen lately, i have taken it upon myself to learn some self defence for beginners and mainly for women, Brisbane Birkdale it is instructed by an experienced martial teacher? Coach? person. Let me know put aside the nerves of not knowing anyone, we are not there to judge we are there to learn a skill, worth while & affordable. I feel all women need to learn how to defend themself and have the confidence to know that you can get yourself out of any situation.
Funnily enough, the hypothetical you posed in which you imagined "1000s of men in public being murdered by men", implying that men would care more about the issue if it primarily effected them... I say it's funny because you apparently don't know that 79% OF ALL HOMICIDE VICTIMS ARE MALE, THAT WASN'T A HYPOTHETICAL, IT WAS A DESCRIPTION OF THE STATISTICAL REALITY OF VIOLENCE. Jesus Christ, the ignorance on display here is so unbelievably frustrating to listen to. And this pretense that a man who abuses women is just "an average dude" is BULLSHIT, to be so deranged and pathetic as such a man necessarily would be would mark every aspect of his life and character; he would be insecure in himself to such a degree that to even vaguely offend him would almost certainly provoke the same kind of defensive violence that manifests in his domestic abuse, at the very least he wouldn't be the kinda guy any sane person would be interested in developing a friendship with. The notion that the violence of violent men is the result of his being ignorant to "what is acceptable and not acceptable" is to completely misunderstand and trivialize the reality and psychology of abuse, abusers aren't abusive because they are somehow of the mind that inflicting violence upon women is okay, they're abusive BECAUSE THEY KNOW IT'S NOT OKAY AND INTEND TO CAUSE HARM. You can't shame men who are abusive, such men already loathe themselves to a degree that no one could possibly rival from without, thus the only effect these "conversations" are going to have is to make men and boys ruminate upon solving a problem which THEY ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO SOLVE BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. This narrative has made virtue and self-interest appear conspicuous to men, and most catastrophically, to boys who will grow up repressing whatever in themselves they perceive as masculine due to the shame of feeling fundamentally, yet inadvertently and ambiguously, "dangerous" to women and girls. This whole fucking "conversation" is grotesque, and quite contrary to the intended outcome, I guarantee it will only make the problem worse... we're creating so many more existentially insecure men than would have existed before we decided to deliberately inculcate such insecurities at the level of education and culture; whoever thinks the solution is "teaching" boys to "respect" girls isn't entirely wrong, of course they have overlooked the rather significant consideration that: boys who have no respect for THEMSELVES will be incapable of relating respect for OTHERS.
Demonising men isn't going to help your cause whatever it is just to keep up with issues in the US that do not exist in this country. Australia isn't perfect but it's right up there on the safety scale in comparison to other countries around the world. Mental health issues are what we are dealing with.
Funnily enough, the hypothetical you posed in which you imagined "1000s of men in public being murdered by men", implying that men would care more about the issue if it primarily effected them... I say it's funny because you apparently don't know that 79% OF ALL HOMICIDE VICTIMS ARE MALE, THAT WASN'T A HYPOTHETICAL, IT WAS A DESCRIPTION OF THE STATISTICAL REALITY OF VIOLENCE. Jesus Christ, the ignorance on display here is so unbelievably frustrating to listen to. And this pretense that a man who abuses women is just "an average dude" is BULLSHIT, to be so deranged and pathetic as such a man necessarily would be would mark every aspect of his life and character; he would be insecure in himself to such a degree that to even vaguely offend him would almost certainly provoke the same kind of defensive violence that manifests in his domestic abuse, at the very least he wouldn't be the kinda guy any sane person would be interested in developing a friendship with. The notion that the violence of violent men is the result of his being ignorant to "what is acceptable and not acceptable" is to completely misunderstand and trivialize the reality and psychology of abuse, abusers aren't abusive because they are somehow of the mind that inflicting violence upon women is okay, they're abusive BECAUSE THEY KNOW IT'S NOT OKAY AND INTEND TO CAUSE HARM. You can't shame men who are abusive, such men already loathe themselves to a degree that no one could possibly rival from without, thus the only effect these "conversations" are going to have is to make men and boys ruminate upon solving a problem which THEY ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO SOLVE BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. This narrative has made virtue and self-interest appear conspicuous to men, and most catastrophically, to boys who will grow up repressing whatever in themselves they perceive as masculine due to the shame of feeling fundamentally, yet inadvertently and ambiguously, "dangerous" to women and girls. This whole fucking "conversation" is grotesque, and quite contrary to the intended outcome, I guarantee it will only make the problem worse... we're creating so many more existentially insecure men than would have existed before we decided to deliberately inculcate such insecurities at the level of education and culture; whoever thinks the solution is "teaching" boys to "respect" girls isn't entirely wrong, of course they have overlooked the rather significant consideration that: boys who have no respect for THEMSELVES will be incapable of relating respect for OTHERS.
Such a complicated topic. From courts realeasing animals who then go on to kill. To mutual DV between partners but men taking it to far. Im sure kids in a break up are a complicator. To the growing number of guys that will never find a partner and that growing resentment (not a womens problem, but a problem) Obviously mental health Porn isnt helping. Free on tap stream of mind altering content thats so reinforcing treating women well.
Great video but one further question… What are the statistics of murder in general? I believe vastly more men are murdered each year…so should the conversation also be focused on the entire subject???
Funnily enough, the hypothetical you posed in which you imagined "1000s of men in public being murdered by men", implying that men would care more about the issue if it primarily effected them... I say it's funny because you apparently don't know that 79% OF ALL HOMICIDE VICTIMS ARE MALE, THAT WASN'T A HYPOTHETICAL, IT WAS A DESCRIPTION OF THE STATISTICAL REALITY OF VIOLENCE. Jesus Christ, the ignorance on display here is so unbelievably frustrating to listen to. And this pretense that a man who abuses women is just "an average dude" is BULLSHIT, to be so deranged and pathetic as such a man necessarily would be would mark every aspect of his life and character; he would be insecure in himself to such a degree that to even vaguely offend him would almost certainly provoke the same kind of defensive violence that manifests in his domestic abuse, at the very least he wouldn't be the kinda guy any sane person would be interested in developing a friendship with. The notion that the violence of violent men is the result of his being ignorant to "what is acceptable and not acceptable" is to completely misunderstand and trivialize the reality and psychology of abuse, abusers aren't abusive because they are somehow of the mind that inflicting violence upon women is okay, they're abusive BECAUSE THEY KNOW IT'S NOT OKAY AND INTEND TO CAUSE HARM. You can't shame men who are abusive, such men already loathe themselves to a degree that no one could possibly rival from without, thus the only effect these "conversations" are going to have is to make men and boys ruminate upon solving a problem which THEY ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO SOLVE BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. This narrative has made virtue and self-interest appear conspicuous to men, and most catastrophically, to boys who will grow up repressing whatever in themselves they perceive as masculine due to the shame of feeling fundamentally, yet inadvertently and ambiguously, "dangerous" to women and girls. This whole fucking "conversation" is grotesque, and quite contrary to the intended outcome, I guarantee it will only make the problem worse... we're creating so many more existentially insecure men than would have existed before we decided to deliberately inculcate such insecurities at the level of education and culture; whoever thinks the solution is "teaching" boys to "respect" girls isn't entirely wrong, of course they have overlooked the rather significant consideration that: boys who have no respect for THEMSELVES will be incapable of relating respect for OTHERS.
I find it truly baffling how many people are genuinely going around saying men “don’t talk about this.” Me, and literally EVERY bloke I know and have grown up with has had it absolutely thumped into our brains from the time we were toddlers to not EVER put hands on a woman. Every man that does, is doing so in spite of everything we are taught as Australian men. The claim that Australia has a “culture” of violence against women is utterly absurd.
Funnily enough, the hypothetical you posed in which you imagined "1000s of men in public being murdered by men", implying that men would care more about the issue if it primarily effected them... I say it's funny because you apparently don't know that 79% OF ALL HOMICIDE VICTIMS ARE MALE, THAT WASN'T A HYPOTHETICAL, IT WAS A DESCRIPTION OF THE STATISTICAL REALITY OF VIOLENCE. Jesus Christ, the ignorance on display here is so unbelievably frustrating to listen to. And this pretense that a man who abuses women is just "an average dude" is BULLSHIT, to be so deranged and pathetic as such a man necessarily would be would mark every aspect of his life and character; he would be insecure in himself to such a degree that to even vaguely offend him would almost certainly provoke the same kind of defensive violence that manifests in his domestic abuse, at the very least he wouldn't be the kinda guy any sane person would be interested in developing a friendship with. The notion that the violence of violent men is the result of his being ignorant to "what is acceptable and not acceptable" is to completely misunderstand and trivialize the reality and psychology of abuse, abusers aren't abusive because they are somehow of the mind that inflicting violence upon women is okay, they're abusive BECAUSE THEY KNOW IT'S NOT OKAY AND INTEND TO CAUSE HARM. You can't shame men who are abusive, such men already loathe themselves to a degree that no one could possibly rival from without, thus the only effect these "conversations" are going to have is to make men and boys ruminate upon solving a problem which THEY ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO SOLVE BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. This narrative has made virtue and self-interest appear conspicuous to men, and most catastrophically, to boys who will grow up repressing whatever in themselves they perceive as masculine due to the shame of feeling fundamentally, yet inadvertently and ambiguously, "dangerous" to women and girls. This whole fucking "conversation" is grotesque, and quite contrary to the intended outcome, I guarantee it will only make the problem worse... we're creating so many more existentially insecure men than would have existed before we decided to deliberately inculcate such insecurities at the level of education and culture; whoever thinks the solution is "teaching" boys to "respect" girls isn't entirely wrong, of course they have overlooked the rather significant consideration that: boys who have no respect for THEMSELVES will be incapable of relating respect for OTHERS.
Because it's true think about it this is why in America we have women helping Women centers, emergency call for help if you've been trafficked Or assault and murder and raping and molestation of children It's men Has A Sexual problem that has not been addressed for Centuries Truth hurts doesn't it it hurts Cause it hurts us women and children yes it does❤
@@thewayneflyinghigh9128 There is violence everywhere sir but the majority of rape of children rape of women assaulting women assaulting children murdering women and murdering children molesting of children is so astronomical truth hurts doesn't it cause it hurts women and childrenNot saying that you don't have some women that are violent and her children and men cause there are but it's the percentage it's so low it's like 4% to 89% wrap your mind around it it's hard for me too
It's great that you're talking about this, and I don't mean any disrespect but, what's your point? I don't feel any more or less safe now than ever. I'm also not compfortable with my husband walking home from the train station at night after a footy match. There are fucked up people in the world. Always have been. And the hardware store example? I just don't buy it. If I ask a question and the guy looks at my husband to answer we'd both just let him know, "Excuse me... My question, my answer" Then maybe he'd learn the lesson. Don't just go away and sulk, or be angry about it.
Sorry but this is exactly the sort of thing that fuels the fear in women. If you actually look at the statistics, you know, those pesky things that actually give us facts, you'll note that assaults ARE NOT increasing. Sexual Assaults ARE increasing but so slightly as to be considered almost static. Virtue signalling bullshit like this is why people think there is a huge increase but it's not a reality. I know I know, easy for me, a man sitting on a couch to say but it's a fact. I have asked a number of women in my life if they live in fear. None of them do. They all say they have had moments of it, late at night on the way home for example, which is healthy and rational, but they do not LIVE in fear. From the Australian Bureau Of Statistics: in the year 2008-2009. in year 2022-2023 3.1% of pop experienced physical assault 1.7% of pop experienced physical assault .3% of pop (aged 18 over) experienced sexual assault .5% of pop (aged 18 and over) experienced sexual assault In regards to Physical assault, men actually have a slightly higher experience of physical assault than women, Men 1.8% and Women 1.7%. This is just tiny sample of the data available on the Bureau of stats website. Please feel free to click the link below to take a further look. www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/crime-and-justice/crime-victimisation-australia/latest-release#physical-assault In the description of this video you guys said "To say it's a massive problem in Australia is an understatement" saying things like this is why women feel fear. STOP DOING IT!!! No-one should live in fear. If it was becoming more prevalent I would stand behind you 100% but it's not the case. You also said "if there were thousands of crazed men out there who are targeting men?” What a way to incite fear in a person. By saying this you are implying there are hoards of men out there waiting to attack women. There ARE NOT. Yes there are predators but the overwhelming percentage of men ARE NOT. Now I want to be clear, I do not in anyway want to minimize or ignore the problem. We as a society need to do something about it. I am proud to say I have had to attend court as a witness after I intervened when I caught a guy dragging his partner up the street in a head lock screaming for her life. I got off my arse and confronted a guy much bigger than me. I didn't get my camera out, which to me is a bigger problem. Every time anything happens everyone gets their camera out instead of helping. I was much heartened to see men (you know, those same ones you are demonizing) in Bondi confronting the guy, but how did I see that, folks filming it. Maybe had more people intervened earlier fewer people would have lost their lives. But I digress. Please stop fanning the fires and creating fear where there should be none. We live in a very safe society here in Australia. Crimes do happen, and yes it's always wise to use caution but please do not live in fear.
Bingo. Something about the way this whole topic is spoken about feels super uneasy with me and I couldn't put my finger on it. I think I understand why now It's like these guys were told to speak about it by their girlfriends and are just repeating what they said
Geez men, I feel like you are reinforcing the perception of fear when we should be working to ease the fear, encouraging communication, promoting civil behaviour by all people. This just seems to be asking men to take up violence against men to prevent violence again women. 1 in 3 women and 1 in 7 men report being the victims of physical domestic violence. This does not consider the impact of coercive control and emotional abuse which has a very different profile of perpetration. Additionally Men are not likely to report DV at the same rates as women for a range of reasons, one of which is that they sometimes accept a level of physical damage as being a reasonable result of the situation. I suppose at this point I will need to state clearly that I believe any physical or emotional or indeed any other form of abuse is unequivocally unacceptable and abhorrent! All relationship should be safe and supportive and anyone in distress should have access to redress and backup. This is a nuanced and complex issue and I don't think the stats you mention are so cut and dried. While domestic homicide is 35% of deaths by murder, over 75% of all homicide victims are Men. With domestic homicide, a women is a victim as an average, every 8 days, and a man every 28 days. Extract from Government Data found at the site "aihw.gov.au" More females than males are victims of domestic homicide. "There were 45 female domestic homicide victims and 33 male victims in 2020-21. Among these: most were killed by an intimate partner - 5 in 9 female victims (56%) and about 2 in 5 male victims (39%) more male than female victims were killed by a family member (61% compared with 44%) (Figure 1). Of the 135 victims of family and domestic violence homicides and related offences in 2022 in the ABS Recorded Crime - Victims data collection: 71 were victims of murder, with 35 female victims and 34 male victims 42 were victims of attempted murder, with twice as many females as males (29 compared with 13) 14 were victims of manslaughter, with similar numbers of female and male victims (ABS 2023a). There were 41 recorded intimate partner homicides and related offences in Australia (excluding data from Western Australia) in 2022, with about 3 times as many females (28) as males (11) (see Data sources and technical notes) (ABS 2023b). Note that values from the ABS Recorded Crime - Victims data collection have been randomly adjusted to avoid the release of confidential data. Component items may not sum to totals." Additionally if we look at death by suicide, the same sight offers insight that more than 45% of men's suicide is driven by situational mental distress based on aspects of relationship breakdown. In 2022 approx. 2455 men were classified as dying by suicide so we could estimate around 1100 men died because of relationship issues which include DV related actions. These can include parental alienation, coercive control, estrangement from children, legal and social discrimination, financial challenges and so on. These issues are massive for men and since men are at the core of DV solutions, it is massive for all of us. I think your discussion felt like it was supporting destructive and simplistic gender norms, when the solutions needed , should likely start with a much more nuanced approach. I think progress must include a range of voices at the table, voices that are prepared to look at upstream and inclusive actions.
I don’t at all believe they are reinforcing the ‘perception’ of fear. There is no perception of fear - the fear is real, not perceived. How can a man possibly claim the fear women are feeling is perceived? Triggered? Yes I am. Living in fear? Yes I am.
Totally agree. They also talked about how some women are uncomfortable when looked at and then talked about how they feel disrespected when ignored. Look and you're a creep, ignore and you're disrespectful. What is wanted from guys here, is there an answer for that? There's so much shame and fear, thats why men are automatically defensive or unsure when talking about it
Australia tends to copy every issue America has even if they do not necessarily exist in this country even at the expense of innocent groups. Sadly we're just copycats.
@fredjones4812 which is why these conversations are so important. Men need to have these conversations with their mates and the women in their lives to understand what is/isn’t respectful, aggressive, threatening behaviour. As a rule just be kind. If a behaviour isn’t something that you wouldn’t want for your mother/sister/daughter then it probably isn’t acceptable.
No one should be attacking another person but it happens 'cause there is crazy people out there however if women don't want men to protect them because they tell us they don't need a man and can look after themselves, what's a bloke supposed to do? ... Christ, a bloke can't even open a door for a woman now without being screamed at.
I think the point is if you see or hear violence or threats towards women speak up, as generally speaking men who commit violence against women are more likely to listen/stop if a it’s coming from a man. The more we discuss treating everyone equally with respect hopefully future generations will understand that violence against women, indeed anyone is not ok. If the conversation stays with just us women it will never end as statistically we are not the perpetrators of this violence. I’m glad these fellas realised that they need to be aware and have these conversations with mates/sons/coworkers/fathers for real change to begin. As for opening the day to day interactions, all I can say is be kind, there are rude people in the world, but acts of chivalry and manners are usually well received.
Well let me tell you the truth cause the truth is gonna hurt 80 to 90% of children and women that are raped molested and murdered are by men and that's the truth so that's why men have a sexual problem they've had it for centuries since the dawn of Time think about it cause it's true
Really happy but why does it take so bloody long for Australian men to wake up to problems.. It’s hilarious 😆 if you think about it really deeply . Reminds me of men getting a health check after Shane Warne’s death .. so sad but a disturbing reflection on Australian society.
Funnily enough, the hypothetical you posed in which you imagined "1000s of men in public being murdered by men", implying that men would care more about the issue if it primarily effected them... I say it's funny because you apparently don't know that 79% OF ALL HOMICIDE VICTIMS ARE MALE, THAT WASN'T A HYPOTHETICAL, IT WAS A DESCRIPTION OF THE STATISTICAL REALITY OF VIOLENCE. Jesus Christ, the ignorance on display here is so unbelievably frustrating to listen to. And this pretense that a man who abuses women is just "an average dude" is BULLSHIT, to be so deranged and pathetic as such a man necessarily would be would mark every aspect of his life and character; he would be insecure in himself to such a degree that to even vaguely offend him would almost certainly provoke the same kind of defensive violence that manifests in his domestic abuse, at the very least he wouldn't be the kinda guy any sane person would be interested in developing a friendship with. The notion that the violence of violent men is the result of his being ignorant to "what is acceptable and not acceptable" is to completely misunderstand and trivialize the reality and psychology of abuse, abusers aren't abusive because they are somehow of the mind that inflicting violence upon women is okay, they're abusive BECAUSE THEY KNOW IT'S NOT OKAY AND INTEND TO CAUSE HARM. You can't shame men who are abusive, such men already loathe themselves to a degree that no one could possibly rival from without, thus the only effect these "conversations" are going to have is to make men and boys ruminate upon solving a problem which THEY ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO SOLVE BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. This narrative has made virtue and self-interest appear conspicuous to men, and most catastrophically, to boys who will grow up repressing whatever in themselves they perceive as masculine due to the shame of feeling fundamentally, yet inadvertently and ambiguously, "dangerous" to women and girls. This whole fucking "conversation" is grotesque, and quite contrary to the intended outcome, I guarantee it will only make the problem worse... we're creating so many more existentially insecure men than would have existed before we decided to deliberately inculcate such insecurities at the level of education and culture; whoever thinks the solution is "teaching" boys to "respect" girls isn't entirely wrong, of course they have overlooked the rather significant consideration that: boys who have no respect for THEMSELVES will be incapable of relating respect for OTHERS.
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It was refreshing to hear men finally talk about violence against women in this caring and compassionate way, it helps to keep the conversation alive.
Funnily enough, the hypothetical you posed in which you imagined "1000s of men in public being murdered by men", implying that men would care more about the issue if it primarily effected them... I say it's funny because you apparently don't know that 79% OF ALL HOMICIDE VICTIMS ARE MALE, THAT WASN'T A HYPOTHETICAL, IT WAS A DESCRIPTION OF THE STATISTICAL REALITY OF VIOLENCE. Jesus Christ, the ignorance on display here is so unbelievably frustrating to listen to.
Will more women talk about violence against men?.
Thank you, Imperfects, for being so courageously vulnerable here. I'm on the edge of tears. We so rarely hear men caring about, or even acknowledging, how unsafe the world can feel for women.
Funnily enough, the hypothetical you posed in which you imagined "1000s of men in public being murdered by men", implying that men would care more about the issue if it primarily effected them... I say it's funny because you apparently don't know that 79% OF ALL HOMICIDE VICTIMS ARE MALE, THAT WASN'T A HYPOTHETICAL, IT WAS A DESCRIPTION OF THE STATISTICAL REALITY OF VIOLENCE. Jesus Christ, the ignorance on display here is so unbelievably frustrating to listen to.
In Australia, a.b.s data says more men than women are murder victims
Do you give a shit about men’s safety?.
@@thewayneflyinghigh9128 Whatever you've been through, or whatever your friends or relations have had endure, I am very sorry for it. Of course, all violence is wrong, and all men have a right to feel safe. Caring about women's safety is part of caring for the safety of all people. I have sometimes put my safety at risk to protect men in vulnerable situations, and I would do so again.
It was great to see that you all took on board what your partners said and openly discussed it. We need more of these conversations. Many men assume they don't know men who abuse women, but they do, and that is something we need men to be more aware of. Comedian Daniel Sloss said it best, "There are monsters among us, and they look like us". Denial can be pretty comfortable, but it doesn't help create change. These conversations help model and teach our kids what is acceptable and not acceptable. You are right; we don't want to shame men who are abusive; as frustrating as that might feel, we want them to get help to manage their emotions.
Men often respond with, "But what about the women who abuse men?" I know that comment will come up, which often derails and shuts the conversation down. It becomes a tit-for-tat. I absolutely understand why men say it. We know that is a problem that needs to be dealt with, BUT these conversations need to be had independently, and I'm really grateful that you have done that with this conversation. Well done guys. It may feel like many don't appreciate it, and that its not a big deal, but please remember, many women have been speaking out about this for 20-30+ years, and sadly, the trauma still lives inside many of them.
Funnily enough, the hypothetical you posed in which you imagined "1000s of men in public being murdered by men", implying that men would care more about the issue if it primarily effected them... I say it's funny because you apparently don't know that 79% OF ALL HOMICIDE VICTIMS ARE MALE, THAT WASN'T A HYPOTHETICAL, IT WAS A DESCRIPTION OF THE STATISTICAL REALITY OF VIOLENCE. Jesus Christ, the ignorance on display here is so unbelievably frustrating to listen to. And this pretense that a man who abuses women is just "an average dude" is BULLSHIT, to be so deranged and pathetic as such a man necessarily would be would mark every aspect of his life and character; he would be insecure in himself to such a degree that to even vaguely offend him would almost certainly provoke the same kind of defensive violence that manifests in his domestic abuse, at the very least he wouldn't be the kinda guy any sane person would be interested in developing a friendship with. The notion that the violence of violent men is the result of his being ignorant to "what is acceptable and not acceptable" is to completely misunderstand and trivialize the reality and psychology of abuse, abusers aren't abusive because they are somehow of the mind that inflicting violence upon women is okay, they're abusive BECAUSE THEY KNOW IT'S NOT OKAY AND INTEND TO CAUSE HARM. You can't shame men who are abusive, such men already loathe themselves to a degree that no one could possibly rival from without, thus the only effect these "conversations" are going to have is to make men and boys ruminate upon solving a problem which THEY ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO SOLVE BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. This narrative has made virtue and self-interest appear conspicuous to men, and most catastrophically, to boys who will grow up repressing whatever in themselves they perceive as masculine due to the shame of feeling fundamentally, yet inadvertently and ambiguously, "dangerous" to women and girls. This whole fucking "conversation" is grotesque, and quite contrary to the intended outcome, I guarantee it will only make the problem worse... we're creating so many more existentially insecure men than would have existed before we decided to deliberately inculcate such insecurities at the level of education and culture; whoever thinks the solution is "teaching" boys to "respect" girls isn't entirely wrong, of course they have overlooked the rather significant consideration that: boys who have no respect for THEMSELVES will be incapable of relating respect for OTHERS.
Is it fine if any women are violent to men?.
And God Bless these Men for Addressing this what powerful Man you all are for Addressing the truth God Bless you❤
This conversation brought me to tears. I live in South Africa which has even worse rates of gender based violence. Every day there are more of us r@p3d, k!ll3d, missing. Men never talk about it except defensively or while blaming the victims, or as fuel for a racist or xenophobic rant.
Hugh, Josh and Ryan, thank you! Thank you for starting this conversation, thank you for your courage, thank you for ripping part of the band-aid off. Penny is right; it is terrifying being a woman in Australia and New Zealand, no doubt elsewhere in the world too. I’m terrified everyday for my adult daughter’s safety (she has an intellectual disability), terrified for my adult son’s safety who flys daily between NZ and AU (he lost a colleague last month from a well publicised violent murder) and I’m terrified everyday for my safety as an early 50’s woman. There’s no way it’s safe to walk, run, ride, swim, shop on my own anymore. Going from a strong independent woman to a woman who now can’t do many things independently anymore simply because of a shift in society… it’s truly devastating and impacts our overall wellbeing regardless of whether we personally have been disrespected, assaulted, abused etc or not.
Please keep using your strong voices to increase this very important korero (conversation).
Kia kaha (be strong)
Kia ora Jen. I am a kiwi living in Aus specifically in a regional town in Vic where there has recently been three tragic murders of woman. I am more careful now, I won't jog after dark and during the day I stick to tracks or roads where I know there are plenty of people.
Right or wrong I have always been careful of my safety, ie. looking over my shoulder, avoiding areas with no light or people, being aware of my surroundings... But I wouldn't say I'm terrified, I think it is safe to walk, run, ride, swim and shop. As per John's comments below, statistically I am actually more at risk from attack from men I have known or know due to domestic violence.
I'm sorry you feel that you can't do things independently anymore, that is very sad. I also have a teenage daughter and it concerns me how this fear is affecting our young people, she then closes herself off and consumes trashy media which only feeds the cycle more.
I believe the things we can do to help ourselves the most as women (men and children also) is develop situational awareness and perceptional skills when it comes to people. ie. if an odd looking, perhaps intimidating man is coming towards me on the street, I will not cross the street, I will give him my full attention, look him in the eye and either greet him or smile at him.
I think the bondi stabbings are terrible and tragic but they are not the norm, we don't have to avoid shopping centres, this does not happen regularly in australia. Yes he did seem to target women but whether this is because he had a vendetta or maybe he simply was just so incredibly unwell his mind had fabricated a story, or may he went for the easiest, closest targets... we will never know.. It is just so incredibly sad.
Due to the nature of social media these random incidents of violence, whilst it seems like they are more frequent than ever before, are in fact just more readily available to us which flood our senses with fear and anxiety.
Wishing you and your family peace and safety.
@@LouiseWorth well said. Our sanity depends on our responses. Prayers of peace for our women who are feeling as unsafe as 5357 xo. We live in a real world, and need to be aware, not fearful. It is fear that will take us down x
Funnily enough, the hypothetical you posed in which you imagined "1000s of men in public being murdered by men", implying that men would care more about the issue if it primarily effected them... I say it's funny because you apparently don't know that 79% OF ALL HOMICIDE VICTIMS ARE MALE, THAT WASN'T A HYPOTHETICAL, IT WAS A DESCRIPTION OF THE STATISTICAL REALITY OF VIOLENCE. Jesus Christ, the ignorance on display here is so unbelievably frustrating to listen to. And this pretense that a man who abuses women is just "an average dude" is BULLSHIT, to be so deranged and pathetic as such a man necessarily would be would mark every aspect of his life and character; he would be insecure in himself to such a degree that to even vaguely offend him would almost certainly provoke the same kind of defensive violence that manifests in his domestic abuse, at the very least he wouldn't be the kinda guy any sane person would be interested in developing a friendship with. The notion that the violence of violent men is the result of his being ignorant to "what is acceptable and not acceptable" is to completely misunderstand and trivialize the reality and psychology of abuse, abusers aren't abusive because they are somehow of the mind that inflicting violence upon women is okay, they're abusive BECAUSE THEY KNOW IT'S NOT OKAY AND INTEND TO CAUSE HARM. You can't shame men who are abusive, such men already loathe themselves to a degree that no one could possibly rival from without, thus the only effect these "conversations" are going to have is to make men and boys ruminate upon solving a problem which THEY ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO SOLVE BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. This narrative has made virtue and self-interest appear conspicuous to men, and most catastrophically, to boys who will grow up repressing whatever in themselves they perceive as masculine due to the shame of feeling fundamentally, yet inadvertently and ambiguously, "dangerous" to women and girls. This whole fucking "conversation" is grotesque, and quite contrary to the intended outcome, I guarantee it will only make the problem worse... we're creating so many more existentially insecure men than would have existed before we decided to deliberately inculcate such insecurities at the level of education and culture; whoever thinks the solution is "teaching" boys to "respect" girls isn't entirely wrong, of course they have overlooked the rather significant consideration that: boys who have no respect for THEMSELVES will be incapable of relating respect for OTHERS.
Will you thank Bettina Arndt for talking about male d.v victims?.
@@margaretsteadman9495what about men who feel unsafe?.
It occurs to me, listening to this, that I _think_ about this issue (and, to some degree, talk with the women in my life about it) a lot more than I _have conversations_ about it (even with the women in my life). Perhaps it would be wise for me to change that, and talk about it more. Thank you for the inspiration on that front, and for talking about this.
Why not talk about men’s rights issues?.
@@thewayneflyinghigh9128 I figure there are two possibilities, here: (1) you're genuinely asking, because you're concerned about real issues that men (uniquely) face, or (2) you're engaging in misogynist trolling. Hopefully it's obvious what I think of the latter behavior. As to the former, I honestly think one of the best ways to get some of those issues addressed is for men to engage with feminism. I think you'll find that while those issues aren't always at the forefront of feminist conversation, feminists (women or otherwise) do actually care about those issues, too, even _from a feminist perspective_ ... so... what I'll point out is that I have no problem with (the sincere form) of having these discussions, doing so in a space that's oriented towards talking about issues women are facing is potentially a derailing tactic (intentionally or otherwise), and I believe the effects of engaging in such are that it ultimately harms men (as well as women), and so I'd advise against it. There are women and men (and enbies, etc.) out there seriously engaging with these topics. Go find them, and have those conversations there.
Not sure if I've completely articulated well the direct answer to your question, but... hopefully you can tease it out.
It's so sad but truth hurts doesn't it it hurts us women and children
It’s enlightening to see men discussing this issue. I hold Hugh in high regard; his book has been a repeat read for me. The unease I felt after listening to a recent episode prompted me to share my thoughts. As a woman in Australia, I usually feel safe. I have a loving partner and a fulfilling life. Yet, the recent tragedy in Sydney has deeply shaken me, impacting me as a person, not just as a woman. I’ve always enjoyed my evening fitness walks around 6 p.m. in Queensland, where it’s already dark due to no daylight saving time. Before this episode, I never feared walking alone. However, the narrative seemed to imply that as a woman in Australia, I should be fearful, which has since made my walks unsettling and left me constantly looking over my shoulder.
My concern is whether, in our attempt to combat violence against women, we are unintentionally fostering unnecessary fear. Why categorize violence as “against women” rather than just calling it violence, crime, or harassment? Although statistics show women are often victims, is this due to our gender, or is it because the offenders are criminals, abusers, or individuals with unresolved mental health issues? While I’ve struggled to find statistics on women killed in random crimes, the increase in women killed by intimate partners in 2024 is alarming.
I empathize deeply with women in abusive relationships, but I cherish my secure and happy life. I want to continue walking freely in my neighbourhood without the fear of random violence. This episode has unfortunately marred that experience for me. In the aftermath of the Sydney tragedy, the media often depicts women as vulnerable, perpetuating the idea that our gender should inherently feel fear. This dialogue is crucial, but can we shift the focus from the narrative that women are inherently weak and vulnerable? It seems the media also sends a message to potential offenders that crimes against women are somehow easier to commit and get away with.
Funnily enough, the hypothetical you posed in which you imagined "1000s of men in public being murdered by men", implying that men would care more about the issue if it primarily effected them... I say it's funny because you apparently don't know that 79% OF ALL HOMICIDE VICTIMS ARE MALE, THAT WASN'T A HYPOTHETICAL, IT WAS A DESCRIPTION OF THE STATISTICAL REALITY OF VIOLENCE. Jesus Christ, the ignorance on display here is so unbelievably frustrating to listen to. And this pretense that a man who abuses women is just "an average dude" is BULLSHIT, to be so deranged and pathetic as such a man necessarily would be would mark every aspect of his life and character; he would be insecure in himself to such a degree that to even vaguely offend him would almost certainly provoke the same kind of defensive violence that manifests in his domestic abuse, at the very least he wouldn't be the kinda guy any sane person would be interested in developing a friendship with. The notion that the violence of violent men is the result of his being ignorant to "what is acceptable and not acceptable" is to completely misunderstand and trivialize the reality and psychology of abuse, abusers aren't abusive because they are somehow of the mind that inflicting violence upon women is okay, they're abusive BECAUSE THEY KNOW IT'S NOT OKAY AND INTEND TO CAUSE HARM. You can't shame men who are abusive, such men already loathe themselves to a degree that no one could possibly rival from without, thus the only effect these "conversations" are going to have is to make men and boys ruminate upon solving a problem which THEY ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO SOLVE BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. This narrative has made virtue and self-interest appear conspicuous to men, and most catastrophically, to boys who will grow up repressing whatever in themselves they perceive as masculine due to the shame of feeling fundamentally, yet inadvertently and ambiguously, "dangerous" to women and girls. This whole fucking "conversation" is grotesque, and quite contrary to the intended outcome, I guarantee it will only make the problem worse... we're creating so many more existentially insecure men than would have existed before we decided to deliberately inculcate such insecurities at the level of education and culture; whoever thinks the solution is "teaching" boys to "respect" girls isn't entirely wrong, of course they have overlooked the rather significant consideration that: boys who have no respect for THEMSELVES will be incapable of relating respect for OTHERS.
Will you empathise with men in abusive relationships?.
From all that has happen lately, i have taken it upon myself to learn some self defence for beginners and mainly for women, Brisbane Birkdale it is instructed by an experienced martial teacher? Coach? person. Let me know put aside the nerves of not knowing anyone, we are not there to judge we are there to learn a skill, worth while & affordable. I feel all women need to learn how to defend themself and have the confidence to know that you can get yourself out of any situation.
Funnily enough, the hypothetical you posed in which you imagined "1000s of men in public being murdered by men", implying that men would care more about the issue if it primarily effected them... I say it's funny because you apparently don't know that 79% OF ALL HOMICIDE VICTIMS ARE MALE, THAT WASN'T A HYPOTHETICAL, IT WAS A DESCRIPTION OF THE STATISTICAL REALITY OF VIOLENCE. Jesus Christ, the ignorance on display here is so unbelievably frustrating to listen to. And this pretense that a man who abuses women is just "an average dude" is BULLSHIT, to be so deranged and pathetic as such a man necessarily would be would mark every aspect of his life and character; he would be insecure in himself to such a degree that to even vaguely offend him would almost certainly provoke the same kind of defensive violence that manifests in his domestic abuse, at the very least he wouldn't be the kinda guy any sane person would be interested in developing a friendship with. The notion that the violence of violent men is the result of his being ignorant to "what is acceptable and not acceptable" is to completely misunderstand and trivialize the reality and psychology of abuse, abusers aren't abusive because they are somehow of the mind that inflicting violence upon women is okay, they're abusive BECAUSE THEY KNOW IT'S NOT OKAY AND INTEND TO CAUSE HARM. You can't shame men who are abusive, such men already loathe themselves to a degree that no one could possibly rival from without, thus the only effect these "conversations" are going to have is to make men and boys ruminate upon solving a problem which THEY ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO SOLVE BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. This narrative has made virtue and self-interest appear conspicuous to men, and most catastrophically, to boys who will grow up repressing whatever in themselves they perceive as masculine due to the shame of feeling fundamentally, yet inadvertently and ambiguously, "dangerous" to women and girls. This whole fucking "conversation" is grotesque, and quite contrary to the intended outcome, I guarantee it will only make the problem worse... we're creating so many more existentially insecure men than would have existed before we decided to deliberately inculcate such insecurities at the level of education and culture; whoever thinks the solution is "teaching" boys to "respect" girls isn't entirely wrong, of course they have overlooked the rather significant consideration that: boys who have no respect for THEMSELVES will be incapable of relating respect for OTHERS.
🏆 Great Video 💛 Thank you.
Demonising men isn't going to help your cause whatever it is just to keep up with issues in the US that do not exist in this country. Australia isn't perfect but it's right up there on the safety scale in comparison to other countries around the world. Mental health issues are what we are dealing with.
Preach
Be careful…facts hurt
Funnily enough, the hypothetical you posed in which you imagined "1000s of men in public being murdered by men", implying that men would care more about the issue if it primarily effected them... I say it's funny because you apparently don't know that 79% OF ALL HOMICIDE VICTIMS ARE MALE, THAT WASN'T A HYPOTHETICAL, IT WAS A DESCRIPTION OF THE STATISTICAL REALITY OF VIOLENCE. Jesus Christ, the ignorance on display here is so unbelievably frustrating to listen to. And this pretense that a man who abuses women is just "an average dude" is BULLSHIT, to be so deranged and pathetic as such a man necessarily would be would mark every aspect of his life and character; he would be insecure in himself to such a degree that to even vaguely offend him would almost certainly provoke the same kind of defensive violence that manifests in his domestic abuse, at the very least he wouldn't be the kinda guy any sane person would be interested in developing a friendship with. The notion that the violence of violent men is the result of his being ignorant to "what is acceptable and not acceptable" is to completely misunderstand and trivialize the reality and psychology of abuse, abusers aren't abusive because they are somehow of the mind that inflicting violence upon women is okay, they're abusive BECAUSE THEY KNOW IT'S NOT OKAY AND INTEND TO CAUSE HARM. You can't shame men who are abusive, such men already loathe themselves to a degree that no one could possibly rival from without, thus the only effect these "conversations" are going to have is to make men and boys ruminate upon solving a problem which THEY ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO SOLVE BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. This narrative has made virtue and self-interest appear conspicuous to men, and most catastrophically, to boys who will grow up repressing whatever in themselves they perceive as masculine due to the shame of feeling fundamentally, yet inadvertently and ambiguously, "dangerous" to women and girls. This whole fucking "conversation" is grotesque, and quite contrary to the intended outcome, I guarantee it will only make the problem worse... we're creating so many more existentially insecure men than would have existed before we decided to deliberately inculcate such insecurities at the level of education and culture; whoever thinks the solution is "teaching" boys to "respect" girls isn't entirely wrong, of course they have overlooked the rather significant consideration that: boys who have no respect for THEMSELVES will be incapable of relating respect for OTHERS.
Such a complicated topic.
From courts realeasing animals who then go on to kill.
To mutual DV between partners but men taking it to far.
Im sure kids in a break up are a complicator.
To the growing number of guys that will never find a partner and that growing resentment (not a womens problem, but a problem)
Obviously mental health
Porn isnt helping. Free on tap stream of mind altering content thats so reinforcing treating women well.
Great video but one further question…
What are the statistics of murder in general?
I believe vastly more men are murdered each year…so should the conversation also be focused on the entire subject???
Funnily enough, the hypothetical you posed in which you imagined "1000s of men in public being murdered by men", implying that men would care more about the issue if it primarily effected them... I say it's funny because you apparently don't know that 79% OF ALL HOMICIDE VICTIMS ARE MALE, THAT WASN'T A HYPOTHETICAL, IT WAS A DESCRIPTION OF THE STATISTICAL REALITY OF VIOLENCE. Jesus Christ, the ignorance on display here is so unbelievably frustrating to listen to. And this pretense that a man who abuses women is just "an average dude" is BULLSHIT, to be so deranged and pathetic as such a man necessarily would be would mark every aspect of his life and character; he would be insecure in himself to such a degree that to even vaguely offend him would almost certainly provoke the same kind of defensive violence that manifests in his domestic abuse, at the very least he wouldn't be the kinda guy any sane person would be interested in developing a friendship with. The notion that the violence of violent men is the result of his being ignorant to "what is acceptable and not acceptable" is to completely misunderstand and trivialize the reality and psychology of abuse, abusers aren't abusive because they are somehow of the mind that inflicting violence upon women is okay, they're abusive BECAUSE THEY KNOW IT'S NOT OKAY AND INTEND TO CAUSE HARM. You can't shame men who are abusive, such men already loathe themselves to a degree that no one could possibly rival from without, thus the only effect these "conversations" are going to have is to make men and boys ruminate upon solving a problem which THEY ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO SOLVE BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. This narrative has made virtue and self-interest appear conspicuous to men, and most catastrophically, to boys who will grow up repressing whatever in themselves they perceive as masculine due to the shame of feeling fundamentally, yet inadvertently and ambiguously, "dangerous" to women and girls. This whole fucking "conversation" is grotesque, and quite contrary to the intended outcome, I guarantee it will only make the problem worse... we're creating so many more existentially insecure men than would have existed before we decided to deliberately inculcate such insecurities at the level of education and culture; whoever thinks the solution is "teaching" boys to "respect" girls isn't entirely wrong, of course they have overlooked the rather significant consideration that: boys who have no respect for THEMSELVES will be incapable of relating respect for OTHERS.
I find it truly baffling how many people are genuinely going around saying men “don’t talk about this.” Me, and literally EVERY bloke I know and have grown up with has had it absolutely thumped into our brains from the time we were toddlers to not EVER put hands on a woman. Every man that does, is doing so in spite of everything we are taught as Australian men.
The claim that Australia has a “culture” of violence against women is utterly absurd.
Funnily enough, the hypothetical you posed in which you imagined "1000s of men in public being murdered by men", implying that men would care more about the issue if it primarily effected them... I say it's funny because you apparently don't know that 79% OF ALL HOMICIDE VICTIMS ARE MALE, THAT WASN'T A HYPOTHETICAL, IT WAS A DESCRIPTION OF THE STATISTICAL REALITY OF VIOLENCE. Jesus Christ, the ignorance on display here is so unbelievably frustrating to listen to. And this pretense that a man who abuses women is just "an average dude" is BULLSHIT, to be so deranged and pathetic as such a man necessarily would be would mark every aspect of his life and character; he would be insecure in himself to such a degree that to even vaguely offend him would almost certainly provoke the same kind of defensive violence that manifests in his domestic abuse, at the very least he wouldn't be the kinda guy any sane person would be interested in developing a friendship with. The notion that the violence of violent men is the result of his being ignorant to "what is acceptable and not acceptable" is to completely misunderstand and trivialize the reality and psychology of abuse, abusers aren't abusive because they are somehow of the mind that inflicting violence upon women is okay, they're abusive BECAUSE THEY KNOW IT'S NOT OKAY AND INTEND TO CAUSE HARM. You can't shame men who are abusive, such men already loathe themselves to a degree that no one could possibly rival from without, thus the only effect these "conversations" are going to have is to make men and boys ruminate upon solving a problem which THEY ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO SOLVE BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. This narrative has made virtue and self-interest appear conspicuous to men, and most catastrophically, to boys who will grow up repressing whatever in themselves they perceive as masculine due to the shame of feeling fundamentally, yet inadvertently and ambiguously, "dangerous" to women and girls. This whole fucking "conversation" is grotesque, and quite contrary to the intended outcome, I guarantee it will only make the problem worse... we're creating so many more existentially insecure men than would have existed before we decided to deliberately inculcate such insecurities at the level of education and culture; whoever thinks the solution is "teaching" boys to "respect" girls isn't entirely wrong, of course they have overlooked the rather significant consideration that: boys who have no respect for THEMSELVES will be incapable of relating respect for OTHERS.
Who is going to talk about any female violence?.
Because it's true think about it this is why in America we have women helping Women centers, emergency call for help if you've been trafficked Or assault and murder and raping and molestation of children It's men Has A Sexual problem that has not been addressed for Centuries Truth hurts doesn't it it hurts Cause it hurts us women and children yes it does❤
@@thewayneflyinghigh9128 There is violence everywhere sir but the majority of rape of children rape of women assaulting women assaulting children murdering women and murdering children molesting of children is so astronomical truth hurts doesn't it cause it hurts women and childrenNot saying that you don't have some women that are violent and her children and men cause there are but it's the percentage it's so low it's like 4% to 89% wrap your mind around it it's hard for me too
Are there any feminist here who want to use derogatory words at me?.
Will the imperfects ever care about male d.v victims?. Or do thr imperfects get there kicks on route 66 when a male is a d.v victim?.
It's great that you're talking about this, and I don't mean any disrespect but, what's your point? I don't feel any more or less safe now than ever. I'm also not compfortable with my husband walking home from the train station at night after a footy match. There are fucked up people in the world. Always have been. And the hardware store example? I just don't buy it. If I ask a question and the guy looks at my husband to answer we'd both just let him know, "Excuse me... My question, my answer" Then maybe he'd learn the lesson. Don't just go away and sulk, or be angry about it.
Sorry but this is exactly the sort of thing that fuels the fear in women. If you actually look at the statistics, you know, those pesky things that actually give us facts, you'll note that assaults ARE NOT increasing. Sexual Assaults ARE increasing but so slightly as to be considered almost static. Virtue signalling bullshit like this is why people think there is a huge increase but it's not a reality. I know I know, easy for me, a man sitting on a couch to say but it's a fact. I have asked a number of women in my life if they live in fear. None of them do. They all say they have had moments of it, late at night on the way home for example, which is healthy and rational, but they do not LIVE in fear.
From the Australian Bureau Of Statistics:
in the year 2008-2009. in year 2022-2023
3.1% of pop experienced physical assault 1.7% of pop experienced physical assault
.3% of pop (aged 18 over) experienced sexual assault .5% of pop (aged 18 and over) experienced sexual assault
In regards to Physical assault, men actually have a slightly higher experience of physical assault than women, Men 1.8% and Women 1.7%.
This is just tiny sample of the data available on the Bureau of stats website. Please feel free to click the link below to take a further look.
www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/crime-and-justice/crime-victimisation-australia/latest-release#physical-assault
In the description of this video you guys said "To say it's a massive problem in Australia is an understatement" saying things like this is why women feel fear. STOP DOING IT!!! No-one should live in fear. If it was becoming more prevalent I would stand behind you 100% but it's not the case. You also said "if there were thousands of crazed men out there who are targeting men?” What a way to incite fear in a person. By saying this you are implying there are hoards of men out there waiting to attack women. There ARE NOT. Yes there are predators but the overwhelming percentage of men ARE NOT.
Now I want to be clear, I do not in anyway want to minimize or ignore the problem. We as a society need to do something about it. I am proud to say I have had to attend court as a witness after I intervened when I caught a guy dragging his partner up the street in a head lock screaming for her life. I got off my arse and confronted a guy much bigger than me. I didn't get my camera out, which to me is a bigger problem. Every time anything happens everyone gets their camera out instead of helping. I was much heartened to see men (you know, those same ones you are demonizing) in Bondi confronting the guy, but how did I see that, folks filming it. Maybe had more people intervened earlier fewer people would have lost their lives. But I digress.
Please stop fanning the fires and creating fear where there should be none. We live in a very safe society here in Australia. Crimes do happen, and yes it's always wise to use caution but please do not live in fear.
Fuck, I spent probably 2 hours trying to think how to put together a great comment like this but you've hit the nail on the head
@@Saintgoten Trust me I spent 2 hours writing it.
I agree, and my comment reflects this.
Bingo.
Something about the way this whole topic is spoken about feels super uneasy with me and I couldn't put my finger on it.
I think I understand why now
It's like these guys were told to speak about it by their girlfriends and are just repeating what they said
@@fredjones4812 Yeah I think so too. It's virtue signalling at it's finest.
Geez men, I feel like you are reinforcing the perception of fear when we should be working to ease the fear, encouraging communication, promoting civil behaviour by all people. This just seems to be asking men to take up violence against men to prevent violence again women.
1 in 3 women and 1 in 7 men report being the victims of physical domestic violence. This does not consider the impact of coercive control and emotional abuse which has a very different profile of perpetration. Additionally Men are not likely to report DV at the same rates as women for a range of reasons, one of which is that they sometimes accept a level of physical damage as being a reasonable result of the situation.
I suppose at this point I will need to state clearly that I believe any physical or emotional or indeed any other form of abuse is unequivocally unacceptable and abhorrent! All relationship should be safe and supportive and anyone in distress should have access to redress and backup.
This is a nuanced and complex issue and I don't think the stats you mention are so cut and dried. While domestic homicide is 35% of deaths by murder, over 75% of all homicide victims are Men. With domestic homicide, a women is a victim as an average, every 8 days, and a man every 28 days.
Extract from Government Data found at the site "aihw.gov.au"
More females than males are victims of domestic homicide.
"There were 45 female domestic homicide victims and 33 male victims in 2020-21. Among these:
most were killed by an intimate partner - 5 in 9 female victims (56%) and about 2 in 5 male victims (39%)
more male than female victims were killed by a family member (61% compared with 44%) (Figure 1).
Of the 135 victims of family and domestic violence homicides and related offences in 2022 in the ABS Recorded Crime - Victims data collection:
71 were victims of murder, with 35 female victims and 34 male victims
42 were victims of attempted murder, with twice as many females as males (29 compared with 13)
14 were victims of manslaughter, with similar numbers of female and male victims (ABS 2023a).
There were 41 recorded intimate partner homicides and related offences in Australia (excluding data from Western Australia) in 2022, with about 3 times as many females (28) as males (11) (see Data sources and technical notes) (ABS 2023b).
Note that values from the ABS Recorded Crime - Victims data collection have been randomly adjusted to avoid the release of confidential data. Component items may not sum to totals."
Additionally if we look at death by suicide, the same sight offers insight that more than 45% of men's suicide is driven by situational mental distress based on aspects of relationship breakdown. In 2022 approx. 2455 men were classified as dying by suicide so we could estimate around 1100 men died because of relationship issues which include DV related actions. These can include parental alienation, coercive control, estrangement from children, legal and social discrimination, financial challenges and so on.
These issues are massive for men and since men are at the core of DV solutions, it is massive for all of us. I think your discussion felt like it was supporting destructive and simplistic gender norms, when the solutions needed , should likely start with a much more nuanced approach. I think progress must include a range of voices at the table, voices that are prepared to look at upstream and inclusive actions.
I don’t at all believe they are reinforcing the ‘perception’ of fear. There is no perception of fear - the fear is real, not perceived. How can a man possibly claim the fear women are feeling is perceived? Triggered? Yes I am. Living in fear? Yes I am.
Totally agree.
They also talked about how some women are uncomfortable when looked at and then talked about how they feel disrespected when ignored.
Look and you're a creep, ignore and you're disrespectful.
What is wanted from guys here, is there an answer for that?
There's so much shame and fear, thats why men are automatically defensive or unsure when talking about it
Australia tends to copy every issue America has even if they do not necessarily exist in this country even at the expense of innocent groups. Sadly we're just copycats.
Really strong response.
@fredjones4812 which is why these conversations are so important. Men need to have these conversations with their mates and the women in their lives to understand what is/isn’t respectful, aggressive, threatening behaviour.
As a rule just be kind. If a behaviour isn’t something that you wouldn’t want for your mother/sister/daughter then it probably isn’t acceptable.
No one should be attacking another person but it happens 'cause there is crazy people out there however if women don't want men to protect them because they tell us they don't need a man and can look after themselves, what's a bloke supposed to do? ... Christ, a bloke can't even open a door for a woman now without being screamed at.
Strong independent woman don't need no man, but when bad stuff happens "wheres the men to speak up?"
I think the point is if you see or hear violence or threats towards women speak up, as generally speaking men who commit violence against women are more likely to listen/stop if a it’s coming from a man. The more we discuss treating everyone equally with respect hopefully future generations will understand that violence against women, indeed anyone is not ok. If the conversation stays with just us women it will never end as statistically we are not the perpetrators of this violence. I’m glad these fellas realised that they need to be aware and have these conversations with mates/sons/coworkers/fathers for real change to begin.
As for opening the day to day interactions, all I can say is be kind, there are rude people in the world, but acts of chivalry and manners are usually well received.
And nobody talks about abuse perpetrated by women against men.
Well let me tell you the truth cause the truth is gonna hurt 80 to 90% of children and women that are raped molested and murdered are by men and that's the truth so that's why men have a sexual problem they've had it for centuries since the dawn of Time think about it cause it's true
And anytime a man defers a harmful thing to the opposite thing he has to think about the thing why are you avoiding the thing Truth hurts doesn't it
Really happy but why does it take so bloody long for Australian men to wake up to problems.. It’s hilarious 😆 if you think about it really deeply . Reminds me of men getting a health check after Shane Warne’s death .. so sad but a disturbing reflection on Australian society.
Funnily enough, the hypothetical you posed in which you imagined "1000s of men in public being murdered by men", implying that men would care more about the issue if it primarily effected them... I say it's funny because you apparently don't know that 79% OF ALL HOMICIDE VICTIMS ARE MALE, THAT WASN'T A HYPOTHETICAL, IT WAS A DESCRIPTION OF THE STATISTICAL REALITY OF VIOLENCE. Jesus Christ, the ignorance on display here is so unbelievably frustrating to listen to. And this pretense that a man who abuses women is just "an average dude" is BULLSHIT, to be so deranged and pathetic as such a man necessarily would be would mark every aspect of his life and character; he would be insecure in himself to such a degree that to even vaguely offend him would almost certainly provoke the same kind of defensive violence that manifests in his domestic abuse, at the very least he wouldn't be the kinda guy any sane person would be interested in developing a friendship with. The notion that the violence of violent men is the result of his being ignorant to "what is acceptable and not acceptable" is to completely misunderstand and trivialize the reality and psychology of abuse, abusers aren't abusive because they are somehow of the mind that inflicting violence upon women is okay, they're abusive BECAUSE THEY KNOW IT'S NOT OKAY AND INTEND TO CAUSE HARM. You can't shame men who are abusive, such men already loathe themselves to a degree that no one could possibly rival from without, thus the only effect these "conversations" are going to have is to make men and boys ruminate upon solving a problem which THEY ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO SOLVE BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. This narrative has made virtue and self-interest appear conspicuous to men, and most catastrophically, to boys who will grow up repressing whatever in themselves they perceive as masculine due to the shame of feeling fundamentally, yet inadvertently and ambiguously, "dangerous" to women and girls. This whole fucking "conversation" is grotesque, and quite contrary to the intended outcome, I guarantee it will only make the problem worse... we're creating so many more existentially insecure men than would have existed before we decided to deliberately inculcate such insecurities at the level of education and culture; whoever thinks the solution is "teaching" boys to "respect" girls isn't entirely wrong, of course they have overlooked the rather significant consideration that: boys who have no respect for THEMSELVES will be incapable of relating respect for OTHERS.