If you're targeting the +1 CHA buff, it's trickier, since you have to decide between using up memories on that before the prayer or potentially locking yourself out of it by succeeding at the +2 buff.
Thanks, though I feel stupid for making the mistake about the prayer bonus being used up after one memory ._. That's what I get for rushing this one out.
You are appreciated. I'm going to now pretend Minthara has a vast amount of hidden content away, and that burning the grove has some secret reward that makes it worth losing valuable NPCs. I'm also going to pretend that Karlach's Origin playthrough doesn't get ruined by going evil and assaulting the grove. ... One can dream of hidden things even if they aren't there. -- But seriously shtposts aside, your content is appreciated.
ooooh so thats why it NEVER worked unless I succeeded the prayer check first, and sometimes didnt work even after that. Finally someone put it all together
Thanks for finding stuff like this SlimX. Really cool to see how things work behind the scenes after reading the countless internet opinions on stuff like this lol
@@SlimXG @apollocj1658 I feel like it was an intended choice made last minute. I could be entirely 100% wrong and maybe it's a bug, but I feel like they decided that it'd be a bit too complicated to go through with SHeart losing say a relationship memory, and then having dialogue paths for all the companions and how they'd respond to her not knowing of her love for them or whatnot. With Act 3 being as expansive as it is, and with them already deciding to cut out Upper City (besides the final fight part where you go through it briefly), I could see them doing this.
Thank you very much for explaining this mechanic. I was recently searching for the best strategy to get all the possible buffs but all the guides were not as detailed as your video. God bless u for making this kind of videos
Video suggestion! Maybe try finding out if Lae'zel will choose to end Voss during their confrontation in Act 1, Mountain Pass? There's this conversation option where Tav can say along the lines of "What will you choose Lae'zel" and then she will willingly stand with Voss and against Vlaakith. I'm curious to see if finding all three gith slates, going through the Zaithisk first BEFORE confronting the inquisitor, and having high enough approval will contribute to that. Similar to Shadowheart's Nightsong points!
I'm planning to gather up some scenes like this of the other four origin companions into a video after I finish the Gale one I'm working on now. Many of the other decisions like this are simpler than they appear.
@@SlimXG I think I'm familiar with what the Gale one is: It's the one in the Act 3 Netherbrain where he has agency to decide whether to sacrifice himself or to push through with the crown. I also experimented and was surprised that I had two playthroughs with him deciding to pursue the crown, and the other willing to sacrifice himself. So excited to see the scripts behind this! Thank you for your hard work!
I kid you not, my first time using this mirror, my three party members got the +1 Cha buff on their first try, followed by the +2 buff; all of them passed the prayer check before surrendering anything. My PC wiffed the first attempt, but got the same outcome on the second and third tries, respectively. I just figured it was hard-coded to give you the +1 boost before it could roll the +2, but nope, I was just particularly lucky.
Oh cool, thank you for explaining this! I stumbled my way through it on my play through and got everyone the buffs but didn’t know why it wasn’t working sometimes.
This mirror has always confused me alot so thank you for taking the time to figure this all out. I loved watching the video on Shadowheart’s nightsong points and I would love to see more on the other companions!
I love those deepdives of yours! I think it's intentional that Shadowheart can't offer anything to the Mirror if she doesn't kill both Nighsong and her parents. Think about it: Shar is so pissed at that Selûnite brat that she wouldn't take anything from her. Or you could interpret that as if Shar thinks, that there is nothing of value left to take. And, judging that Shadowheart can't offer anything if she didn't kill both Nighsong and her parents, what about the situation if she killed Nighsong but saved her parents? Does she have options to offer to mirror specific memories (parents points, romance, etc.)? Or what about the situation where she saved Nighsong but turned her parents into the Moonmotes?
I can't speak on what the developers intended for the story, but they put the content into the files, just left it oddly impossible to access. If it was intentional, it must have been a late decision where someone went in and changed the code in a simple way to block it.
That makes a lot of sense and is very frustrating to know. I thought I heard you were supposed to do the +1 prayer second 😅 at least my wizard got to use the +2 int buff by offering forbidden knowledge
Just try the mirror skipping the +1 charisma and straight to +2 charisma since i already have ethel buff and i got both +1 and +2 at the same time. i didn't know that could possibly happen
I'm pretty sure the religion prayer bonus applies for multiple memory checks. I just took my party through, and got a buff on everyone by spamming every available memory. It sometimes took multiple memories to get. But you have the code in, so I'm confused.
Yep, you're right. When I tested it, I got the other two memories in a row, and the code seemed to corroborate it. But looking into the save file directly, the 0 is there for MirrorBonus, but so is the 3. So that means you gotta be super unlucky to not get the buff, eventually. Welp, embarrassing mistake, on my part. Thanks for pointing it out.
I don't really have much to comment but explaining mechanics directly via code or sharing other types of really obscure knowledge is great content, so uh, have some motivation I guess...
In my current playthrough, I respec'd Shadowheart as a level 2 tempest cleric, and (currently) 6 levels of divination wizard. She has the necromancy of thays forbidden knowledge, and according to your other deep dives. Is currently on the path to sparing the Nightsong and her Parents. I hope I can give up the forbidden knowledge to get a stat boost for her.
i feel like i still dont understand, but i am glad in my only successful honor run so far I was able to actually receive a buff from the damn mirror AND the zaethisk. 24 charisma hits like a truck and I melted the netherbrain before I could even take turns on my other party members
To clarify: Sometimes the trolls don’t respond to the horn, is it purely based on pathing to your location or are there some kind of terrain or other region flags that prevent summoning? The only way I’ve found to keep the damn egg out of my camp supplies list is to stick it in a chest on the ground in camp. This and other performance issues with inventory make me suspect that Dribbles the Coder wrote the world’s items as a flat array with tags added for character inventory, camp chest, etc that is searched for every operation. Is this something that can be answered at the exposed scripting level? Why is Wyll?
@@RakuraiZero Ogres, it seems to be a mix of both. There are some regions they can't reach, and they appear to need some sort of path to you to spawn. I might be able to dig up a list of valid regions, though any pathing issues are outside of the data I have access to. Yeah, owlbear egg just counts as camp supplies, so as far as I know, there's not much you can do other than manually select your supplies each time you Long Rest or drop the egg off somewhere until you need it. Wyll's a fairly simple man who likes simple things. I'm going to cover some of his choices in a future video, along with some of the other companions.
So I’m playing my honor mode run as Origin Shadowheart and went down the Sharran path. I’ve also gone with a paladin-cleric multiclass, so charisma is pretty important. What I’m hearing is that it’s impossible for me to get the +1 charisma buff since Shar will be very happy with me and I should just try to get it on a sorcerer instead
You can get each buff on more than one character, if you're lucky enough. But as for Shadowheart, yeah, she's locked out of getting the +1 CHA buff if she's on the Shar path, and didn't save her parents, since she'll skip straight to the +2 buff, which prevents using the mirror again. If Shadowheart saves her parents, even on the Shar path, she's locked out of getting any buffs, just like the Selune path. So if you want to save her parents, go get your buff from the mirror first, before talking to them.
@@SlimXGokay got to the Mirror in this game, and skipped past her parents to go to the mirror. It still automatically gave me the +2 buff so no chance at all of the +1 Charisma on Shadowheart specifically even though I hadn’t gone to kill her parents yet
@@karlwittenburg5868 Right, Shadowheart can't ever get the + 1 CHA, because she either gets automatic +2 or nothing at all, depending on what she's done regarding Shar stuff.
Hey Slim, I'm doing some Honour mode planning here and wanted to check if you knew the answer to my question. Suppose I respecced to guarantee a minimum religion roll of 25 (Reliable talent + bonuses from stats and gear) and I was hunting the +1 and +2 Bonuses. Could I keep giving up my memories until I get the Stelmane memory, then move on to the prayer to get the +2? I know there's still no guarantee that I get the Stelmane memory, but 20% odds seem more likely when I try 5 times (6 if I have the "Forbidden Knowledge" buff)
Well, if you plan to use Forbidden Knowledge, you wouldn't even need to pass the prayer roll. To maximize the chance of getting both buffs, that would be the way to do it: use (up to) all 6 stats withOUT making the prayer, to try to get the +1 CHA. If you get it in less than 6, you can then make the prayer and use any remaining stats to try for the 60% chance +2 buff. And if you run out of stats before or after that point, use Forbidden Knowledge as a last resort to guarantee the +2 buff (regardless of if you succeeded at getting the +1 CHA or not).
Shadowheart definitely appears to be the most complex when it comes to the companions. Gale has a somewhat elaborate system to determine his attitude about the crown, and I'm in the middle of working on a video about that. From the skimming that I've done of the other four companions, none of them have anything on the level of Shadowheart. Will dig into them more in the future.
@@SlimXG I'm guessing you mean 4 Origins.... Which while it makes sense they have the most about them, it still makes me a little sad that there isn't more to the non-Origins. Jaheira and Minsc being from previous games, I dont mind as much, but Halsin and Minthara I wish had more going on after recruitment.
Only Shadowheart and Gale really have hidden points systems. For Gale it's about pushing him towards godhood or forgiveness and another one for blowing himself up or wanting to live. Astarion has two flags that could have been used for alternative outcomes ("knows ritual purpose" and "wants ritual complete") but they seem to solely rely on his knowledge about the ritual and cannot be influenced by dialogue (like if he knows the purpose, the "wants ritual complete" flag is always set and you cannot talk him out of it). Karlach, Wyll and Lae'zel have nothing in that regard to my knowledge.
Just a friendly fyi, macabre is pronounced ma-cahb, not ma-cab-ray. Neat video! I didn't even know the mirror did anything, I was too scared to mess with it!
Google translate for French says otherwise (but I do still say it like a Texan). But I unsarcastically appreciate your pedantry! And to think, you missed out on trying (and failing) to get a +2 buff, all this time
Well, I already know where it is and how to trigger it, but considering that involves the "IMPOSSIBLE" flag, my hunch is that there's no way to do it normally.
@@evolyn403 If anyone finds a method to trigger it without any mods or cheats that can be repeated by anyone, I will be very surprised (assuming they don't change anything in Patch 7)
I really can't say. I'd already started working on it when the Nightsong Points video blew up, and since I had some other videos of that sort already on my mind, I decide to detour to those, for a bit. I still plan to make an Act 3 Honour Mode video at some point, but I'll be honest that the lukewarm reception of the Act 2 video that I put a lot of work into took away some of my motivation. At the least, the Act 3 video will be focused on just the big bosses, without all the extra content I covered in Act 2. I certainly appreciate your interest in seeing it, though. Thank you.
That's an interesting question, since the game actually does have a check to deny you that chance, but only if you use up all six memories AND try to offer a false memory with the Deception check. If you don't offer a false memory (and there's no reason to, anyway), then yes, you can do exactly what you described.
Thank you so much for this amazing breakdown of the code. One quick question: the community wiki claims that offering up Forbidden Knowledge will guarantee the +2 bonus. Is that just false info?
@@SlimXG I suppose I have an actual question then. The wiki also says that you don't need to roll to recognize the mirror if you already did so for the broken mirror in the Gauntlet of Shar. Is that true as well?
@@robc6532 I can find no evidence of that being true from a quick check through the files. The flag checked by the mirror in the House of Grief is different from the one set when succeeding at the passive Arcana check in the Gauntlet of Shar. But it'd take a bit of time to actually test it in-game.
This is GOLD, no, Platinum astonishing and I'm not sure what option (set/clear the flag) does make more sense thematically and narrativelly but I wish it was "set" as otherwise I'm a bit forced to make Shadowheart str based build with +2 poition as it's the only way she'll get any permanent ASI to even out with others
The thing is, that code actually checks if the flag is clear, and if so, clears it. Which doesn't make any sense. So it was either a mistake or a dev went in and just flipped it to that as a simple way to block out this content, or for some other reason. Unfortunately, I can't read the minds of the developers, only the files that we have.
@@SlimXG well as a programmer myself I actually can't come up with any reason why you even need any check anyway =) if A == X and B != Y then B = Y is almost the same as if A == X then B = Y. It could be some very deep dive into optimization, but set an global flag vs checking the db is kinda ... idk, mb it makes actually sense, idk, or mb they had it implemented but then writers decided to back up and programmer dirtly fixed that (but then why not just erase it anyway...) In other words I find this code just junky lol
What if you successfully get Patriar’s memory first without the religion check? Does it get removed from the pool of possible memories once you successfully roll the religion check or will you still have a chance to get the hidden roll that is supposed to give you Patriar’s and thus get the generic dialogue? Basically, I’m trying to understand if you improve your odds of getting the +2 on your hidden rolls if you go for Patriar first. Additionally, does the memories you can give up carry over between the first option and the religion option? Ex. If you give up 5 memories to get Patriar, then do you have only one chance to get the +2 assuming you passed the religion check?
Roll results are never removed from the pool; if you roll the same number more than once, you'll see the generic dialogue, regardless of the prayer. You can't improve your odds at the +1 CHA buff past 20% and you can't improve your odds of the +2 buff beyond 60%. And yeah, you can only offer each stat memory once, no matter when you make the prayer.
@@SlimXG thanks this is great info. I had been calculating that the chance of getting patriar’s was 1-(0.8^6) ~ 74% which is still technically true but would require you to use up all your memories thus locking yourself out of possibly getting the +2.
@@ironbar2009 Yeah, if you're playing with a single save, there's a gamble to make on how many tries you use up, if you're going for the +1 CHA in addition to the +2 buff. The funny thing being that any failed attempt to get the +2 turns into a 50% chance of giving you the +1 CHA.
"If Shadowheart didn't kill both Nightsong AND her parents, the mirror will always tell her that she has nothing left to offer and will give you no chance at any buffs." What's the flag that officially locks you out? The wiki says you can access the mirror before "making a decision about her final task," so I''m wondering if there's a way to spare the Nightsong and still get the buff.
It checks that she's on the Shar path, which means she killed the Nightsong. It also checks that she didn't save her parents, not that she DID kill them, technically. So yeah, you can just snub her parents, go around to the mirror, get her a buff, and then go back and save her parents.
@@SlimXG So by this logic, we can do the "Spear Nightsong, Spare Isobel" silence trick, and just ignore her parents, to give Shadowheart both the Mirror buff and Sharran benefits while still... More or less doing the good things. Saving Last Light and her parents, all at the cost of... Well, the Nightsong.
@@JacksonJinn So it would seem. The free +2 buff for Shadowheart from the mirror is checking that she is on the "Shar path" (killed Nightsong) and that she has *not* _saved_ her parents, not that she actually killed them. Meaning you can wave hi to her parents as you walk around them hanging there and go get your buff from the mirror, then double back and talk to her parents to save them.
Yes you can. Since getting the +2 buff locks you out of any future use of the mirror, you have to gamble on how many memories you want to offer before praying. You can offer up to five memories first, then use your last one after praying, though you still might not get the +2 on that last try. (Or if you're not playing Honour Mode, you can just reload and try again . .)
If you're targeting the +1 CHA buff, it's trickier, since you have to decide between using up memories on that before the prayer or potentially locking yourself out of it by succeeding at the +2 buff.
Makes me feel sooo much better about that stupid mirror just knowing the odds. Thanks for this!
Well thanks for requesting it, since it ended up being interesting to dig into hahah
You're the only youtuber that still can teach me A LOT about bg3 even after 1400 h
Thanks, though I feel stupid for making the mistake about the prayer bonus being used up after one memory ._. That's what I get for rushing this one out.
I wish I'd thought to include this in the Parent Points video, but I got a request for it, so here it is. Gale video is still on the way.
Love your channel, favorite BG3 content out there!
You are appreciated.
I'm going to now pretend Minthara has a vast amount of hidden content away, and that burning the grove has some secret reward that makes it worth losing valuable NPCs. I'm also going to pretend that Karlach's Origin playthrough doesn't get ruined by going evil and assaulting the grove.
... One can dream of hidden things even if they aren't there.
-- But seriously shtposts aside, your content is appreciated.
ooooh so thats why it NEVER worked unless I succeeded the prayer check first, and sometimes didnt work even after that. Finally someone put it all together
My god. You frickin did it. First person in history to tell us how this actually works!
Thanks for finding stuff like this SlimX. Really cool to see how things work behind the scenes after reading the countless internet opinions on stuff like this lol
Deep dives like this are something I've been hoping to see ever since I started playing. Thanks for sharing this!
this is very interesting, I really like the demonstration of how changing the code actually makes the scene work as it (might be) intended
Though you can't actually change the code by changing a word in the text file, but it looked better for the video than the actual method hahah
@@SlimXG @apollocj1658 I feel like it was an intended choice made last minute. I could be entirely 100% wrong and maybe it's a bug, but I feel like they decided that it'd be a bit too complicated to go through with SHeart losing say a relationship memory, and then having dialogue paths for all the companions and how they'd respond to her not knowing of her love for them or whatnot. With Act 3 being as expansive as it is, and with them already deciding to cut out Upper City (besides the final fight part where you go through it briefly), I could see them doing this.
Wow. This is the by far the best explanation for the Mirror of Loss I have seen. It's really helpful.
Thank you very much for explaining this mechanic. I was recently searching for the best strategy to get all the possible buffs but all the guides were not as detailed as your video. God bless u for making this kind of videos
Video suggestion! Maybe try finding out if Lae'zel will choose to end Voss during their confrontation in Act 1, Mountain Pass? There's this conversation option where Tav can say along the lines of "What will you choose Lae'zel" and then she will willingly stand with Voss and against Vlaakith. I'm curious to see if finding all three gith slates, going through the Zaithisk first BEFORE confronting the inquisitor, and having high enough approval will contribute to that. Similar to Shadowheart's Nightsong points!
I'm planning to gather up some scenes like this of the other four origin companions into a video after I finish the Gale one I'm working on now. Many of the other decisions like this are simpler than they appear.
@@SlimXG I think I'm familiar with what the Gale one is: It's the one in the Act 3 Netherbrain where he has agency to decide whether to sacrifice himself or to push through with the crown. I also experimented and was surprised that I had two playthroughs with him deciding to pursue the crown, and the other willing to sacrifice himself. So excited to see the scripts behind this! Thank you for your hard work!
I kid you not, my first time using this mirror, my three party members got the +1 Cha buff on their first try, followed by the +2 buff; all of them passed the prayer check before surrendering anything.
My PC wiffed the first attempt, but got the same outcome on the second and third tries, respectively.
I just figured it was hard-coded to give you the +1 boost before it could roll the +2, but nope, I was just particularly lucky.
I love these sorts of videos! Thanks for the deep dives and explanations!
Oh cool, thank you for explaining this! I stumbled my way through it on my play through and got everyone the buffs but didn’t know why it wasn’t working sometimes.
your level of quality and detail in bg3 vids are unmatched by any other youtuber mate.
This mirror has always confused me alot so thank you for taking the time to figure this all out. I loved watching the video on Shadowheart’s nightsong points and I would love to see more on the other companions!
Why thank you. Gale's video has a lot of moving parts, but it's coming along. I hope to get it finished this week, but we'll see. ;^^)
I love those deepdives of yours!
I think it's intentional that Shadowheart can't offer anything to the Mirror if she doesn't kill both Nighsong and her parents. Think about it: Shar is so pissed at that Selûnite brat that she wouldn't take anything from her. Or you could interpret that as if Shar thinks, that there is nothing of value left to take.
And, judging that Shadowheart can't offer anything if she didn't kill both Nighsong and her parents, what about the situation if she killed Nighsong but saved her parents? Does she have options to offer to mirror specific memories (parents points, romance, etc.)? Or what about the situation where she saved Nighsong but turned her parents into the Moonmotes?
I can't speak on what the developers intended for the story, but they put the content into the files, just left it oddly impossible to access. If it was intentional, it must have been a late decision where someone went in and changed the code in a simple way to block it.
DJ Shadowheart who had slain Nightsong but spared her parents still has advantage on religion check but it's useless since she has no memory to offer.
@@cannyvalley8522 I know you meant, "Dark Justiciar," but I like to imagine Shadowheart tearin' it up at the club.
That makes a lot of sense and is very frustrating to know. I thought I heard you were supposed to do the +1 prayer second 😅 at least my wizard got to use the +2 int buff by offering forbidden knowledge
God tier BG3 content!
There definitely should be a mod for this, considering it is clearly a bug.
Just try the mirror skipping the +1 charisma and straight to +2 charisma since i already have ethel buff and i got both +1 and +2 at the same time. i didn't know that could possibly happen
I'm pretty sure the religion prayer bonus applies for multiple memory checks. I just took my party through, and got a buff on everyone by spamming every available memory. It sometimes took multiple memories to get. But you have the code in, so I'm confused.
Yeah, I remember from a prior playthrough, being able to do multiple memories if the first one didnt' work out.
Yep, you're right. When I tested it, I got the other two memories in a row, and the code seemed to corroborate it. But looking into the save file directly, the 0 is there for MirrorBonus, but so is the 3. So that means you gotta be super unlucky to not get the buff, eventually. Welp, embarrassing mistake, on my part. Thanks for pointing it out.
Slimmy on that type of flag diving again, what a treat
I don't really have much to comment but explaining mechanics directly via code or sharing other types of really obscure knowledge is great content, so uh, have some motivation I guess...
Good video!
In my current playthrough, I respec'd Shadowheart as a level 2 tempest cleric, and (currently) 6 levels of divination wizard.
She has the necromancy of thays forbidden knowledge, and according to your other deep dives. Is currently on the path to sparing the Nightsong and her Parents.
I hope I can give up the forbidden knowledge to get a stat boost for her.
Offering Forbidden Knowledge is done from the same list as the memories, and Shadowheart never sees that list as the game is, now.
@@SlimXG Well damn. That is disHEARTening.
@@ryudragon7 Sorry for casting a Shadow on your day
i feel like i still dont understand, but i am glad in my only successful honor run so far I was able to actually receive a buff from the damn mirror AND the zaethisk. 24 charisma hits like a truck and I melted the netherbrain before I could even take turns on my other party members
Maybe still slightly mystified, then
God Bless 🙏
I love this. In upcoming videos, could you please explain:
Where did my trolls go?
How do I keep my owlbear egg uneaten?
Why is Wyll?
To clarify:
Sometimes the trolls don’t respond to the horn, is it purely based on pathing to your location or are there some kind of terrain or other region flags that prevent summoning?
The only way I’ve found to keep the damn egg out of my camp supplies list is to stick it in a chest on the ground in camp. This and other performance issues with inventory make me suspect that Dribbles the Coder wrote the world’s items as a flat array with tags added for character inventory, camp chest, etc that is searched for every operation. Is this something that can be answered at the exposed scripting level?
Why is Wyll?
@@RakuraiZero Ogres, it seems to be a mix of both. There are some regions they can't reach, and they appear to need some sort of path to you to spawn. I might be able to dig up a list of valid regions, though any pathing issues are outside of the data I have access to.
Yeah, owlbear egg just counts as camp supplies, so as far as I know, there's not much you can do other than manually select your supplies each time you Long Rest or drop the egg off somewhere until you need it.
Wyll's a fairly simple man who likes simple things. I'm going to cover some of his choices in a future video, along with some of the other companions.
So I’m playing my honor mode run as Origin Shadowheart and went down the Sharran path. I’ve also gone with a paladin-cleric multiclass, so charisma is pretty important. What I’m hearing is that it’s impossible for me to get the +1 charisma buff since Shar will be very happy with me and I should just try to get it on a sorcerer instead
You can get each buff on more than one character, if you're lucky enough. But as for Shadowheart, yeah, she's locked out of getting the +1 CHA buff if she's on the Shar path, and didn't save her parents, since she'll skip straight to the +2 buff, which prevents using the mirror again. If Shadowheart saves her parents, even on the Shar path, she's locked out of getting any buffs, just like the Selune path. So if you want to save her parents, go get your buff from the mirror first, before talking to them.
@@SlimXGokay got to the Mirror in this game, and skipped past her parents to go to the mirror. It still automatically gave me the +2 buff so no chance at all of the +1 Charisma on Shadowheart specifically even though I hadn’t gone to kill her parents yet
@@karlwittenburg5868 Right, Shadowheart can't ever get the + 1 CHA, because she either gets automatic +2 or nothing at all, depending on what she's done regarding Shar stuff.
Hey Slim, I'm doing some Honour mode planning here and wanted to check if you knew the answer to my question.
Suppose I respecced to guarantee a minimum religion roll of 25 (Reliable talent + bonuses from stats and gear) and I was hunting the +1 and +2 Bonuses.
Could I keep giving up my memories until I get the Stelmane memory, then move on to the prayer to get the +2?
I know there's still no guarantee that I get the Stelmane memory, but 20% odds seem more likely when I try 5 times (6 if I have the "Forbidden Knowledge" buff)
Well, if you plan to use Forbidden Knowledge, you wouldn't even need to pass the prayer roll. To maximize the chance of getting both buffs, that would be the way to do it: use (up to) all 6 stats withOUT making the prayer, to try to get the +1 CHA. If you get it in less than 6, you can then make the prayer and use any remaining stats to try for the 60% chance +2 buff. And if you run out of stats before or after that point, use Forbidden Knowledge as a last resort to guarantee the +2 buff (regardless of if you succeeded at getting the +1 CHA or not).
@@SlimXG Amazing, thank you 🙏
You're a great teacher!
Do other characters have these insane operations behind them?
I am amazed that shadowheart is so complex
Shadowheart definitely appears to be the most complex when it comes to the companions. Gale has a somewhat elaborate system to determine his attitude about the crown, and I'm in the middle of working on a video about that. From the skimming that I've done of the other four companions, none of them have anything on the level of Shadowheart. Will dig into them more in the future.
@@SlimXG I'm guessing you mean 4 Origins.... Which while it makes sense they have the most about them, it still makes me a little sad that there isn't more to the non-Origins. Jaheira and Minsc being from previous games, I dont mind as much, but Halsin and Minthara I wish had more going on after recruitment.
Only Shadowheart and Gale really have hidden points systems. For Gale it's about pushing him towards godhood or forgiveness and another one for blowing himself up or wanting to live.
Astarion has two flags that could have been used for alternative outcomes ("knows ritual purpose" and "wants ritual complete") but they seem to solely rely on his knowledge about the ritual and cannot be influenced by dialogue (like if he knows the purpose, the "wants ritual complete" flag is always set and you cannot talk him out of it).
Karlach, Wyll and Lae'zel have nothing in that regard to my knowledge.
@@JakeSPuwuowo69 Oh, yeah, the non-origin companions are even simpler. Minsc is very . . simple
@@SlimXGEven if they are simpler, I would still be very interested in hearing about the systems for the other companions.
Just a friendly fyi, macabre is pronounced ma-cahb, not ma-cab-ray. Neat video! I didn't even know the mirror did anything, I was too scared to mess with it!
Google translate for French says otherwise (but I do still say it like a Texan). But I unsarcastically appreciate your pedantry!
And to think, you missed out on trying (and failing) to get a +2 buff, all this time
If anyone can discover the hidden fourth-wall-breaking Karlach line it's gonna be you.
Well, I already know where it is and how to trigger it, but considering that involves the "IMPOSSIBLE" flag, my hunch is that there's no way to do it normally.
So I guess that means the $500 bounty is never gonna be claimed 😔
@@evolyn403 If anyone finds a method to trigger it without any mods or cheats that can be repeated by anyone, I will be very surprised (assuming they don't change anything in Patch 7)
Not trying to rush you or anything, but can you estimate when you do the tips for act 3? I’m so looking forward to see you cheese these bosses.
I really can't say. I'd already started working on it when the Nightsong Points video blew up, and since I had some other videos of that sort already on my mind, I decide to detour to those, for a bit. I still plan to make an Act 3 Honour Mode video at some point, but I'll be honest that the lukewarm reception of the Act 2 video that I put a lot of work into took away some of my motivation. At the least, the Act 3 video will be focused on just the big bosses, without all the extra content I covered in Act 2. I certainly appreciate your interest in seeing it, though. Thank you.
Love your videos! The act 2 one is awesome, and I’m going to be utilizing a bunch of those tips on my duo run.
Is it possible to use all 6 memories rolling for the patriar +1 without praying, then use the necromancy of thay to guarantee the +2
That's an interesting question, since the game actually does have a check to deny you that chance, but only if you use up all six memories AND try to offer a false memory with the Deception check. If you don't offer a false memory (and there's no reason to, anyway), then yes, you can do exactly what you described.
Thank you so much for this amazing breakdown of the code. One quick question: the community wiki claims that offering up Forbidden Knowledge will guarantee the +2 bonus. Is that just false info?
Thank you, and yes, that's correct. I mentioned that at 2:50 in the video.
@@SlimXG Ah whoops, I missed that part. Thank you
@@SlimXG I suppose I have an actual question then. The wiki also says that you don't need to roll to recognize the mirror if you already did so for the broken mirror in the Gauntlet of Shar. Is that true as well?
@@robc6532 I can find no evidence of that being true from a quick check through the files. The flag checked by the mirror in the House of Grief is different from the one set when succeeding at the passive Arcana check in the Gauntlet of Shar. But it'd take a bit of time to actually test it in-game.
@@SlimXG Gotcha. Thanks for going to the trouble of checking anyway!
This is GOLD, no, Platinum
astonishing and I'm not sure what option (set/clear the flag) does make more sense thematically and narrativelly but I wish it was "set" as otherwise I'm a bit forced to make Shadowheart str based build with +2 poition as it's the only way she'll get any permanent ASI to even out with others
The thing is, that code actually checks if the flag is clear, and if so, clears it. Which doesn't make any sense. So it was either a mistake or a dev went in and just flipped it to that as a simple way to block out this content, or for some other reason. Unfortunately, I can't read the minds of the developers, only the files that we have.
@@SlimXG well as a programmer myself I actually can't come up with any reason why you even need any check anyway =) if A == X and B != Y then B = Y is almost the same as if A == X then B = Y. It could be some very deep dive into optimization, but set an global flag vs checking the db is kinda ... idk, mb it makes actually sense, idk, or mb they had it implemented but then writers decided to back up and programmer dirtly fixed that (but then why not just erase it anyway...)
In other words I find this code just junky lol
3:59 sis remembered her friend
What if you successfully get Patriar’s memory first without the religion check? Does it get removed from the pool of possible memories once you successfully roll the religion check or will you still have a chance to get the hidden roll that is supposed to give you Patriar’s and thus get the generic dialogue?
Basically, I’m trying to understand if you improve your odds of getting the +2 on your hidden rolls if you go for Patriar first. Additionally, does the memories you can give up carry over between the first option and the religion option? Ex. If you give up 5 memories to get Patriar, then do you have only one chance to get the +2 assuming you passed the religion check?
Roll results are never removed from the pool; if you roll the same number more than once, you'll see the generic dialogue, regardless of the prayer. You can't improve your odds at the +1 CHA buff past 20% and you can't improve your odds of the +2 buff beyond 60%.
And yeah, you can only offer each stat memory once, no matter when you make the prayer.
@@SlimXG thanks this is great info. I had been calculating that the chance of getting patriar’s was 1-(0.8^6) ~ 74% which is still technically true but would require you to use up all your memories thus locking yourself out of possibly getting the +2.
@@ironbar2009 Yeah, if you're playing with a single save, there's a gamble to make on how many tries you use up, if you're going for the +1 CHA in addition to the +2 buff. The funny thing being that any failed attempt to get the +2 turns into a 50% chance of giving you the +1 CHA.
In my playthrough, Mirror of loss permabuff gone if ur character respec.
"If Shadowheart didn't kill both Nightsong AND her parents, the mirror will always tell her that she has nothing left to offer and will give you no chance at any buffs."
What's the flag that officially locks you out? The wiki says you can access the mirror before "making a decision about her final task," so I''m wondering if there's a way to spare the Nightsong and still get the buff.
It checks that she's on the Shar path, which means she killed the Nightsong. It also checks that she didn't save her parents, not that she DID kill them, technically. So yeah, you can just snub her parents, go around to the mirror, get her a buff, and then go back and save her parents.
@@SlimXG That's fantastic news! Thank you so much for the info!
@@SlimXG So by this logic, we can do the "Spear Nightsong, Spare Isobel" silence trick, and just ignore her parents, to give Shadowheart both the Mirror buff and Sharran benefits while still... More or less doing the good things. Saving Last Light and her parents, all at the cost of... Well, the Nightsong.
@@JacksonJinn So it would seem. The free +2 buff for Shadowheart from the mirror is checking that she is on the "Shar path" (killed Nightsong) and that she has *not* _saved_ her parents, not that she actually killed them. Meaning you can wave hi to her parents as you walk around them hanging there and go get your buff from the mirror, then double back and talk to her parents to save them.
So we can get a +1 Cha buff and a +2 Any Stat buff for a total of +3 from the mirror?
Yes you can. Since getting the +2 buff locks you out of any future use of the mirror, you have to gamble on how many memories you want to offer before praying. You can offer up to five memories first, then use your last one after praying, though you still might not get the +2 on that last try.
(Or if you're not playing Honour Mode, you can just reload and try again . .)
@@SlimXG Gotcha, it is an Honor attempt but... I'm still in Act 1 lol
@@SlimXG or you know your game might unexpectedly crash for not getting the intented result.
@@Brutian96 Yeah, it's weird how the game will sometimes just close itself and fail to save when you're playing on Honour Mode and you get a bad roll
Stupid mirror. I just ignored it.
ngl this channel is great need more views in here
Thank you. Please feel free to watch all the videos a couple dozen times.