Thank you for watching Honest Discourse. We are so thankful to bring people with differing perspectives together for meaningful conversations. As the discussions continue in the comments, we encourage you to engage kindly. The spirit of this format is “discuss, don’t demonize.”
Pro-lifers can just be as radical as pro-choicers. I prefer to stay neutral when it comes to abortion because I honestly hate how intense modern politics in America is becoming
@@barbragennings2383 I think that someone can learn lessons from religion just by the merit of the ideas presented through a story. This means that when you derive an argument from religion you have to still defend that argument like you would any other and can't justify it only by stating "x religion says it it good therefore it is good"
@@benschuster9792 so your saying the argument should be based off of the story's more than general religious statements? If so i agree because the lessons are in the story's
Cherlock McFly In the situation that you’ve described, yes, I agree that putting the baby out of their misery would be the more merciful thing. However, I don’t believe that such an example would happen very often if ever. I’m not a doctor, but my brother is, and he says that any amount of pain can be managed with appropriate doses of morphine. He also says that in some cases, there is a risk of causing death if you increase the dosage enough to prevent pain, but that is a risk he would take if it’s necessary to prevent a person from being in agony. I agree with him about that. So saying that the most common reason for third trimester abortions is to prevent the baby from experiencing uncontrollable agony is, I think, a red herring. The disabled people I’ve been around are grateful for the lives they’ve led, which like all lives have good and bad times. Since I’ve never heard a disabled person say that they wish they’d been aborted, I can only guess what might cause someone to think that, but my best guess would be family members making them feel like a burden. A reasonable response would be to try to make them feel wanted and respected, not agree that it would be better if someone had butchered them in the womb. Strange that you think that such an approach is caring. You also aren’t acknowledging that abortion itself causes horrific pain to the unborn baby, albeit not for very long. “force a being into existence” That “being” is already in existence. The inside of a uterus is a place that exists, not some kind of theoretical idea. By the way, my opinions about abortion have nothing to do with religion. Even as religion declines, opinion is turning against abortion because of a new generation of prolifers, many of whom are agnostic or atheist.
@Cherlock McFly less than 2% of abortions are due to rape/incest or medical issues. I am not religious but pro choice members always bring up the cases of rape/incest and medically necessary abortions even though that is the extreme minority of cause of abortions. As far as late term abortion, they could have made the law to state abortion legal for fetal medically necessity only instead of for the health of the mother. There would literally never, ever be a reason for a late term abortion due to health concerns for the mother. Adding this text to the law allows them to find a way for anyone to get abortion at anytime.
Brier-Rose HopeDiamond What also effects the baby is growing up in a home too poor to afford their life. Not getting proper mental help, physical help and education and ending up on a bad path due to it. It effects the hundreds of thousands of neglected children put into the system, some staying in it feeling unloved until god knows when. It effects the children who suffer with families who abuse or neglect them. It effects the teen moms unable to give them a proper life or make a proper life for themselves. It effects the single moms and fathers working themselves to the bones to take care of a kid neither of the parents were ready for. It effects the kid that grows up to feel unloved, excluded, etc. Due to not having that other person in their life. No ones telling you to choose abortion. But mind your own business when it comes to someone else’s choice. You don’t know what the future brings. You don’t know how that unprepared upbringing will effect them and everyone else around them.
I mean the pro life woman is so wise but I respect the pro choice woman for voicing her opinion. Props to both of the women for listening and learning from one another!
@Melody Faircloth a human isn't just DNA as my skin cells have my dna but aren't humans, but yes from the moment of conception it is by definition a human being partially because of DNA and thus abortion per definition is murder.
You respect the pro choice woman about voicing her opinion about killing people -- little, tiny babies. We're over 60 million dead because of this carnage. You must respect Hitler too for his opinion on Jews.
@@fevah6790 Listen , a virus and bacteria is considered a living thing on other planets based on science , but a fetus is way different then just a clumpse of cells but it has human essence in it and also spiritual. The fetus is in a process for growth to become as a human life that could either be a prophet of God or a Teacher or could end up being a criminal but still that fetus has a right to grow the same way as us. Who are we to interrupt the growth of that being?
@@reedemed_caleb I think he was agreeing with the person’s statement. He wasn’t saying that abortions are okay or that babies are actually bunches of cells.
I'm Christian, but when u are responding to a controversial issue u have to explain it in a way that EVERYONE can understand, not just quoting scripture...
@Benicia Galvez I never SAID she did that. and *who are you* to tell me whether or not I'm a Christian. YOU DONT KNOW about my relationship with Christ. If u disagree I would like to know why and have a civil conversation... but if ur just going to attack me... then, bye.
Who cares about babies! Just keep that 🐱 open for business. Download my new game about having an abortion clinic and grow your business by 🔪 babies into small pieces. It's very fun and you need to be smart about growing the business by advertising and creating events and shows and hiring celebrities and buying politicians. You need to promote 6 in movies and every way people look because more 6 equal more business.
Thiiiss!!! Had the same feelings because she kept referring to the word, which makes sense to her... but that is not going to be the case for everyone. I can imagine it made it harder for some people to relate or better understand her. We as Christians need to be a better job of relaying information in a more digestible way.
It’s also difficult to hear an adamant response to this one topic while ignoring how we are supposed to help the poor no matter what. Amongst many other things that are equally important in the Bible.
Right! From the moment we conceived, we are given purpose and a gift of life. God is intentional. The baby shouldn’t have to suffer bc of the horrendous acts or decisions of another.. He is the giver of life, not us 💯
@@edubbs5556 I truly believe that their baby is waiting for them in Heaven. So if someone miscarried, they still have that child. They will see them when they get there. The Bible says children are a gift from the Lord : Psalm 127:3. That child will go back to their Creator until the parents get to Heaven to be with them.
I like that both women was very respectful to one another. As a Christian myself, I'm glad the gospel was preached without compromising the truth while being mindful of her tone.
@songs plzz or you could just close your fucking legs, or be responsible when you have sex so then you won't be put in the position to consider ending the life of an innocent fucking baby. Its sickening.
Because you use their standard of right and wrong. For example. If they use the example of rape, you can say, why is rape wrong? They will usual say something like “you’re violating someone’s body” Then you’ve got them, Okay, well that’s what you’re doing to that baby, violating their body. It’s not the woman’s body, it’s the baby you’re killing.
Victoria Louise Hutchinson-Briars good point. But without believe in God, moral relativism reigns. I’ve heard pro choice women argue that the baby is using their body without their permission. Moral relativism is a slippery slope and anything can be justified. But - yes - that argument would work with some.
I completely understand what you’re saying. And as a Christian, it’s hard not to use Christian arguments based in the bible for this. But if we did, it can easily be dismissed by others by saying they don’t believe God or the bible to be true. So that’s why it’s important to have arguments based in their belief, and it can be used against them
It’s not hard to understand that not all women want children, just hard to understand a mother of a child looking back and think, “man, I wish I would’ve killed this child when I had the chance.” It’s messed up
sparklyunicorn I understand that it’s the honest reality, I’m only saying that the view of life, motherhood, and murder is really messed in terms of the pro choice movement
@@jmes33579 how is it messed up? Because it actually faces the harsh realities, supports the womans autonomy, and doesn't hide behind limited religious beliefs?
She did not have a breakthrough. She still fully believes abortion is a perfectly moral choice. She was only being nice to the woman literally pushing her religion down her throat because even though she made it clear several times she was not religious, the woman kept going so she gave up with trying to reason with her and her fantasies.
Yeah cuz many cameras was on her Otherwise she would scream, throw objects in pro life woman and calling her murdered or some dumb shitt Every pro choice protest looks like this.
@@Daniela-gj4jt The pro life woman was simply explaining where she is coming from and how it all comes from her relationship with Christ and not only logical explanation. She wasn't preaching or anything, simply explaining. Why do you guys get so annoyed when someone explains where they come from in Christianity. We aren't forcing our "religion". We are just trying to explain where we are coming from entirety. And thats Christ. Stay blessed 🙏🏽
@@esmereldasnickles8056 y’all don’t ever have any other reasons to do anything other than your indoctrinated religion. Y’all don’t ever form your own opinions and it’s all based on a book written by men a thousand years ago and mistranslated many times. That’s why we get “annoyed”.
@@paulden3158 But basing laws on subjective opinion that stems from fairy tales - not the way to go unless you want the dark ages back (they did just that).
@@justdoit4834 I'm not sure whether to take that as an offense or not, but I do read the Bible and the way this girl teaches and speaks is really eye opening. So, thank you for the comment but it wasn't really helpful.
@@ashleejohnson4945 Why do you feel offended? You learn this by studying the bible and discussing it with other people. Don't feel offended so easily and try to be tolerant. Have a great day.
@@ashleejohnson4945 I understand where you're coming from. The response you got from that other person, it did kind of seem just like when someone drops a big giant book on the table and it makes a really loud slamming sound, and the person just goes "read this, and download the wisdom" and just walks away. Not the most tactful way to say what I think that person was trying to say, but the advice, although good, it wasn't the best way to express it. The delivery really could have been better. And we shouldn't tell people to "get think skin". So sorry it was told to you like that. With that, I don't want to just say get some thick skin, but rather, I want to encourage you to look up some blessed women in Christ that I love to be encouraged in the Word from. Yes, the Bible is the first place to go... But it's not an easy read especially if you don't have spiritual "eyes" yet. And here is the other thing, there are a lot of "Bible teachers" who aren't teaching what the Word says CORRECTLY. I.e Joel Olsteen, Bill Johnson, TD Jakes, Paula White (🤦 unfortunately she is Trump's spiritual advisor... She shouldn't be. She's so into the prosperity gospel). Look up Jennie Allen, Priscilla Shirer, Jen Wilkin. These women are amazing. You can look them up here on TH-cam! When they bring up scripture, look it up in the Bible! God bless you ❤️
here is Jen Wilkin...I just love her. She doesn't "mess" with the Word like a lot of other teachers out there...she's a straight shooter with the Word, and that is what I love about her. th-cam.com/video/XuRdeuMv0v8/w-d-xo.html
@@dobbythefreeelf390 I guess what I was saying was confusingly worded what I meant was that pro choice people show up to pro life rallies and a lot of times act uncivil
@@SurealG oh well then can we like agree to disagree because its really late and I have to write a script for drama so I just don't feel like arguing, have a good night :)
I was a teen Mom at a time it was very frowned upon. I was shunned by my family and friends. My parents kicked me out at 17 with no place to go, no medical, no job etc.. I had to make it on my own and I did. It has made me a very strong independent woman. My daughter has no doubts about how much I love her. Of course, it was not easy. In fact, it was extremely difficult. In spite of all the obstacles, I continued my education, had a full time job and mothered her. It can be done! You learn a lot of life lessons very quickly. You learn a lot about yourself as well. On a good note, I gained tons of respect later on by my family and we are now very close. I actually thanked my parents for not enabling me and forcing me to do it on my own.
I commend you for your choice and wish you and your daughter the very best in life. Hardship only makes us better. Pressure makes diamonds and am sure your a gem to your daughter and the people close to you.
Thats a beautiful story and there are many people who made the same decision but the stories don't end the same a child is a beautiful blessing and like you said it was hard and you worked your butt off for your kid ,let people decide on what they want to do not all stories that start the same way end the same way
@@zanele6830 Agree. But a baby is not an inconvenience to be destroyed. It's a unique beautiful life that depends on it's parents to do the right (yet difficult) actions. If you make right decisions for the right reason, you are successful in life. Success is not always monetary. Be proud of who you are if you make honorable choices.
Appreciate this long format that is not heavily edited. It allows both sides to clearly express their position and not just jump to conclusion. Thanks for this!
False dicotomy. Also, the pro-choice person literally said, "the scientist in me," lol what scientist "in you?" that's the most hilarious statement ever.
I agree. I'm a Pro Life atheist. Life begins at conception according to science because at that moment a seperate unrepeatable DNA type is created, so therefore killing it would be immoral. (However in cases of rape, incest and life of the mother or baby, abortion should be legal but not encouraged in case of rape and incest) Edit: I am now a Catholic and my opinions have changed. I'm now radically Pro-life
@@ShadowBan666 You can't force your religion on people. You can't force your laws based on a 2000 yo book on people. You god is just one of the many gods out there. Respect other people beliefs and stop trying to make people feel bad for """sins""" that were invented 2000 years ago.
As pro-choice woman, It's refreshing to watch a pro-lifer and pro-choicer talking calmly and listening and learning from each other instead of screaming, ignoring each other, insulting, all those things.
TheLady you mean pro choice a woman’s right to her own body to who ever uses it. If we can’t force a woman to donate her body to her 2 year old, a sick dying person in the hospital, a stranger down the street, her own father we can not force her to sustain a fetus! If we agree the fetus is a person with equal rights than if I can’t force the woman to ustain my life neither can the fetus. Who owns the woman’s body? The fetus? Or the woman? I know you indoctrinated fools like to argue a “right to life”. We all have that including the fetus. We all have a right to life but not at the expense of someone else. The pro life movement is the pro birther movement! You don’t give a shit about life if you are a means of forcing it. The pro birther movement is woman are incubators and not human beings. That kind of thinking is dishonest and disgusting. Oh abortion means the termination of a pregnancy! Murder means a innocent person being killed unjustified. If the woman didn’t consent to the pregnancy. The fetus is in fact violating her bodily autonomy rights. This makes the fetus not innocent and the woman still remains innocent. Just because she can get pregnant doesn’t mean that’s all she’s meant to do. And that is just incredibly insulting to anyone. Think your shit through.
Steven Corey Yes a woman's life comes before the fetus's that's true. But to ignorantly think that most abortions are taking place because the mother's life is in danger? That's a rare occurrence. Female bodies were created so they can hold babies so only a small percentage of them would actually die from giving birth to one. Most abortions are stupid because the woman just doesn't want the baby because she's "too young" or something equally as retarded as that. If you're capable of having sex and getting pregnant you sure as hell are capable of having a baby. We weren't created stupidly with faults in our bodies. In _no way_ is killing a fetus just cuz you feel like it humane. It's murder and if you can't see that then you do not know how truly gruesome it is to literally pull a baby apart limb by limb.
Steven Corey first of all I URGE you to take testosterone enhances because I can tell you’re not masculine. The woman’s right to choose is NOT her choice. Does the woman have 4 arms? 4 legs? 2 brains? No! Therefore it is NOT her body to decide on. Who are they to tell people whether or not a baby deserves to live or not? The word “fetus’ is BABY in Latin.
@@stevencorey7623 I'm sorry, but that was the most ridiculous "argument," if I could even call it that. BIOLOGICALLY, women's reproductive systems, again REPRODUCTIVE systems are made to REPRODUCE. Women conceive the child, the child doesn't make itself. Imbecile 🤦🏽♀️
This was the most calm, respectful discussion on this topic I've ever seen. Two lovely women actually listening to each other and trying to understand "The other side".
assa christian, she issa good example of how loving true christians really are. its a common thing that people think we force a view when we are loving human with a choice of lifestyle. We just want you to experience what he experience with jesus
John 8: 10-11 10) When Jesus had lifted up Himself, and saw none but the woman, He said unto her, Woman where are thine accusers ? hath no man condemned thee? 11) She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee : go, and sin no more.
ORaddlyispissedoff I wrote this verse not only to point out the sin. But to also point out that we who are all sinners are not to condemn , but to show the way to which salvation is possible through Our LORD JESUS CHRIST alone and that it is he who will judgeth all for what they do. GOD bless you always brother. 🕊🕊🙏🕊🕊
Follower Of My Lord I know what you’re trying to do 🙂 “Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?” 1 Corinthians 6:2-3 KJV
I wish the pro life girl's arguments were less religious. Not that her points are wrong, or that pro life is wrong. But you can make arguments and maybe more farther reaching arguments if its not based on religion. Because harder to impose those things on others when they don't follow your religion.
BTEguitardude I agree. I am religious and pro-life but I feel it is important to support my opinion with science/facts that are not faith based. You can’t persuade a non-Christian with Christian beliefs. I do appreciate the respectful dialogue between the two women. I wish more people would respectfully listen to others with different points of view.
The problem is that there is no reason to not abort if you believe that God doesn’t exist. If there is no objective standard it’s one opinion over an other.
@@JakeRuzi As a Christian person who has a logical foundation. You don't need religious anything to make a pro-life argument. The abortion argument is pretty simple: She shouldn't have to fill in the blank for the sake of that fetus. It asserts that her convenience is more valuable than the fetus. As human life has ultimate relative value on Earth, this is invalid. If you disagree with this statement (ik you probably don't) answer me this: If a human is hanging off a cliff and there's something else on the other side, and you can only save 1, name something that's not a human where you can justify letting that person die. Potential Objections: The fetus isn't alive. The problem with that is that 1) Humanity lacks the scope to definitively define human life so the logical thing to do is to say as early as possible. Even if you say that's false and life begins whenever(doesn't matter whether it's consciousness, memory, whatever characteristic) there's a "yet" missing from that Fetus isn't alive statement. Human development happens in stages. You know beyond a reasonable doubt that the fetus will attain those qualities in the future and are taking measures to prevent it. What species is that clump of cells? Choose the answer that is most accurate. If it's not alive why is a woman who just got the news so happy or so distraught? Because she's projecting into the future at the responsibility she knows is coming. Your emotions betray your assertions here. Would you tell a woman who had a miscarriage not to be sad bc her baby was just a parasite or a clump of cells.Of course not. The current state is irrelevant as the future one is a near-certainty The abortion argument is more accurately stated: I don't want to deal with the responsibility of a child, so I'll kill it before it becomes one. It's an argument marred with hubris, selfishness, and arrogance. So eager to abandon the most vulnerable because they're inconvenient. Pro-choicers who have spent a generation manipulating fearful and vulnerable women into believing they have the right to exercise this option as some sort of overcompensation for a historical lack of sexual autonomy, which is evil.
Regarding the statement that its more cruel to bring a child in to the world that is likely to suffer than it is just to abort the fetus is such an easy one to refute. No one can predict the future. A child born in to poverty could spend a lifetime of suffering or could rise above and do wonderful things. Using that statement thats its less cruel just to abort the baby, then it must be ok to kill a child that is already born that is suffering. Some people believe this as well.
I think every person who uses this as an excuse, should take a LOOONG HARD look at their hearts and figure out if they are REALLY concerned about the child’s welfare, or if they are actually just concerned that it will make life hard for THEM. I think most will find that the real heart motivation is the latter.
@@j.dariorodriguez7173 we can all have different opinions about things in this world without getting nasty and offensive. It's called tolerance. Concerning your question......pick up the bible and find it out yourself😉 much love to you✌
Religious people have to realize that it is their right in America to choose a religion of their choosing. BUT so does everyone else, to choose or not to choose. Not everyone believes in God. You cannot inflict your religious views on another person’s life. This country was built on the basis of the separation of church and state. Abortion is incredibly simple. If you want one, get one. If you don’t, then don’t get one. Keep abortions legal, safe, and accessible.
Abortion isn’t simple. I have 3 personal experiences from my bestfriends and family member that got abortions and had to deal with the mental issues of the aftermath, that they all knew came from this decision. None of them were ‘religious’ at the time, so yes it is Gods will to be pro life but it also goes to show that it’s not just a ‘religious view’.
its not that simple at all, half the country believes that making abortion illegal would be literally making women be pregnant and having children against their will, the other half believes that it is literally murdering a baby. the problem is, it is a philosophical question on whether or not that a fetus is a human being or not, and that is a question that unfortunately none of us are qualified to answer.
That pro-life gal is so solid in her theology and faith, I’m blown away! What an inspiration! The pro-choice gal was also very respectful and kind, which is hard to come by on that side. Very great video! 👍🏼
@@marilouise1715 yes but in general, both prolife(basically pro birth) and pro choice are aggressive *but* atleast pro choice people have never forced or tried to force a literal child through child birth
@@DJUniMekaju Cognisance is the key factor most are referring to when distinguishing between the cells that make up adult humans and the cells that make up an undeveloped fetus. One has it. The other doesn't. Therefore, one undergoes the ramifications of the decision more than the other. This is why women's choice is integral because only the woman, not the fetus, can make the decision that is best for her life, and, by extension, the unborn baby's life if she decides to give birth. Furthermore, if you truly believe any assortment of cells that make up humans is sacred, then you should in turn take issue with sperm cells being wasted by the billions every day by men who masturbate. These lumps of cells also make up the beginnings and potential of human life. But for whatever reason, by your logic, sperm cells are less important than a fetus.. and yet, a fetus is somehow more important than a cognisant adult woman. You see where your logic starts to break down?
@@kurlykayla9013 , and yet people never mention cognizance. They always mention the lump of cells argument. The difference between sperm and a fetus is that they are genetically different. The sperm is genetically part of the host while the fetus is a completely different being. You are arguing that it's okay to kill something that is genetically different then the host out of convenience which sounds disturbing. Why not argue for the adoption system to be better? And if it's the right for the woman to choose to kill something her and a man-made, then it should be the right of the man to choose to pay child support and alimony. Things should be fair.
@@DJUniMekaju The lump of cells argument is the cognisance argument. They are one in the same. I am not arguing adoption because abortion isn't simply about not wanting to be a parent. Abortion deals specifically with the process of childbirth. As I mentioned in another comment, pregnancy and childbirth alter a woman's anatomy, painfully and permanently, and puts her through physical, emotional, and mental trauma that have residual effects for the rest of one's life. It doesn't happen in the blink of an eye. It is not frivolous. Women die from this. To force them to go through something as serious as childbirth when they're not willing and ready is nothing short of barbaric. Yes, more barbaric than terminating a non-cognisant lump of cells. Your argument about sperm doesn't make sense. What do you mean sperm is genetically different from the host? The sperm contains the host's genetics. As does a fetus. And the fetus is far more connected and intertwined with the host than sperm is. Both are just a collection of non-cognisant cells that are the beginnings of human life. I don't see why one suddenly becomes more important than the other, and I definitely don't see why a fetus is more important than a woman's well being. Let me be clear: women are not incubators. Your problem is that you view women's bodies as mere baby-delivery vessels that are unfeeling and not at all connected with the fetus. You think childbirth is some simple inconvenience when it is actually the most important thing a human being can ever do. Perhaps if you had a little more care and concern for the bodies carrying these fetuses you apparently have so much concern for, you'd realize how callous you come off as. But of course, that would require you to actually empathize with women, and I'm willing to bet such a feat isn't so easy for you. Like most anti-choicers, you allow dogma to shape your opinion, and you lack perspective as a result.
They chose these two women for a reason. Two people that aren’t arguing and not willing to open their ears to here each other’s mindsets. Good job selecting these two for this topic 👍🏼
but they were open. they might not agree but they were open to hearing and even sharing their thoughts on each other's story. listening to someone's story does not require agreement from any party
Let me preface this with saying yes, I am a Christian. I've spent a lot of time researching these kinds of debates, and wondering where I stand, and if you want me to be completely honest - I don't think we should ban abortions. Hear me out. If we make a rape exception (which a lot of people don't agree with, but let's go with it for the sake of the argument), there will be so many more false rape allegations. Even more than there are now. If we don't make a rape exception, then we force millions of women to push a baby out of the same part of their body that was brutally violated. If we ban abortions, people will just do them unsafely either across the border or in their own homes. If we ban abortions, the amount of children in our (broken) foster system will skyrocket. More and more children will grow up in poverty, nearly starving. Not only that, but we, as Christians, tend to be attacking the end result, rather than the root of the problem. So many people are rallying against comprehensive sex education, even when it's been proven that states with the strictest sex ed are the ones with the highest teen pregnancy rates. Not enough people are advocating for easier access to contraception, not enough people are advocating for foster care reform. We, as Christians, are not recognizing that banning abortions altogether isn't the answer. If we want to protect the lives of these babies and their mothers, we need to make it harder to conceive a child and easier to raise one. I hope this makes sense to you guys, and I hope you have a blessed day.💛💛
@@markkozin9730 You are not a Christian if you make judgements on someone else's faith. Furthermore, it's important to recognize that abortion is a complicated issue. I believe that banning abortion is not what will prevent it. I want to considerably reduce the amount of abortions performed, but banning them is not the most efficient way to do so
@@sarahebert2510 The question is what is just? There are unjust ways of reducing abortion, e.g. deeming all children wards of the state, locking every pregnant woman up and monitoring them so they don't commit an abortion, and then taking their children; even though that would be super effective at lowering abortion rates, it would be unjust. The purpose of law is to be just. But is it just for someone to kill another person and go free? Is it just to let the lie that "abortion is the solution to the pregnant woman in distress's problems" be repeated without challenge? Does caring for orphans and widows mean killing the orphans so that the widows don't have extra financial burdens? Is it just to let a pregnant woman believe that she's alone in the world and has to fend for herself, and that no one in her life cares enough about her to help her, and help her take care of her child? Is it just that infanticide is listed as "just another option"? Is it just that the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is legally protected for everyone but the unborn?
All the pro-life said girl is "because God" and "because the bible" and that´s it. I don´t know what she thinks about it. The pro-choice girl was more of what she thinks not her as a christian. That´s a big difference when you talk about this topic. The mindset is important.
If having a baby would be sooooo horrible for your life, then why in the world would you not take the precautions necessary to avoid getting pregnant in the first place??? It's not that hard to avoid getting pregnant.
People who were raped by family members, strangers, friends ? Who in the world said getting pregnant wasn't that hard?! It can be extremely hard for those who are in terrible communities or positions, such as dangerous home lives, to not get pregnant.
@@froyo424 even in the very very rare cases of rape or incest, it's not the baby's fault. The baby is innocent and should not be killed. All human life is sacred.
@your below average viewer Well I have dedicated my time and energy to view and get an in-depth undertanding of this issue and all possible points of view and my conclusion is not the same but I am not as close minded to call it the universal truth. Just calling out people on both sides who have not done their research and have only loud surface based opinions.
Abortion will quite literally always exist weather you make it illegal or not. By making abortion illegal you’re literally making things worse for women AND the babies. And what blows my mind is that you actually think you’re the heroes. If the women wants to have the baby or not, it’s HER choice. Are you seriously expecting them to wait until its capable to make a decision to live?? If you were to save a fully developed baby or a container of eggs from a burning building which one would it be? When it’s inside the mother it’s literally her. They’re connected. If the baby is causing her harm she has every right to end the pregnancy. Don’t start with that bullcrap about it’s rights because it literally cannot even fathom the concept of life or anything of that matter yet. I do agree when it gets to like 6 months it’s ridiculous to have an abortion. But do you realize the majority of abortions happen in the first 6 weeks?? When “the baby” is literally just a blob. You call it murder to make it seem like something horrific and justifiable. If it’s murder then miscarriages are manslaughter bruh. All I’m saying is, more places outside of the US like Ireland are making abortion legal. It’s expanding and growing. Y’all can’t stop that 🤷🏻♀️
@@bigj3n Everyone knows God exists. What people do is suppress that truth and worship something different. Such as themselves, creation itself, money, sex, etc. Everyone knows it's wrong to murder, lie, and cheat. People know this because God put a conscience in us. He put His moral code in us, but sadly we all do a great job in not living up to it and far to many times we ignore our conscience. Do it enough times and we go numb and no longer feel it.
@@DryWaterFilms by who? Is God striking that person dead? Abortion is protected by the law as well. So who are you to decide which one is permitted. If you are operating under the law, what's the issue?
@@jupiterstone827 I don’t ultimately submit to man’s law, I submit to God’s. Man’s law has clearly been wrong in cases like slavery and abortion. God, in a case like capital punishment, uses government authorities that “He instituted” (Romans 13:1) to carry out justice. “For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer”. (Romans 13:4)
I am agnostic and have studied the bible multiple times. Genesis 2:7 says "Then the Lord God formed the man out of the dust from the ground and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and the man became a living being." and from what I get from that is that you have to take your first breath to be alive.
I am pro life myself, but that same point of God God God really annoyed me. It’s a cop out when you don’t really know why you believe something. The wwjd type response is so played out and doesn’t help the argument.
The pro life chick only defended her opinion with her religion, not everyone wants to be apart or believe in your religion so if you’re going to argue bring up more reasoning as why abortion is wrong other than your religious and moral beliefs. One women is speaking about facts and this woman is speaking feelings. Your religion shouldn’t play apart in politics and another person’s rights over their body.
Abortion has absolutely nothing to do with a woman's autonomy. A baby, in your womb, is not your body. I think it was Reagan who said "I've noticed everyone who supports abortion has already been born" (not an exact quote just how I remember it)
@@Alibern7 it is entirely possible to not get pregnant in the first place in all situations other than rape (which in many cases could be avoided but sometimes can not - this doesn't mean the girl getting raped is at fault but that it is certainly possible to take steps to minimize the potential of being raped)
Autonomy is God creation and it’s a child. When I was lost in my sin, I was selfish. Selfishness is to hate self and others too. Once I was saved by grace of God, I see the goodness of God now.
I’m very pro life (not debating in the comments about that) but quite a few people in the comments have pointed out that this was fairly one sided in favor of the pro life argument. I love you guys and love everything you’re doing, but maybe we could include people with stronger opinions on the matter? Again, love the video, love you all, and God bless.
What stronger opinions? "Life starts after the baby was born" or "A baby is a parasite" or "It's just a clump of cells" This is all I hear from their side tbh, nothing was one sided at all. 🤔
@@andrineborbe2470 why, because she didn't end up agreeing with the pro choice lady? the pro choice lady didn't end up agreeing with her either but she was still listening and learning? she wasn't lecturing at all, both of them kept.calm tones of voice, were respectful and really listened. they have their own thoughts and beliefs but that doesn't have anything to do with lecturing?
@songs plzz The key difference here is that it's human. There is no doubt that it is because it cannot belong to another species. Abortion just undoubtedly is killing of a human being by its own mother because every DNA test proves that a fetus inside her is her offspring. I am only against killing of innocent humans against their will. That's he definition of murder.
@songs plzz *The consciounsness argument debunked:* Fetuses are conscious ( www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/issues/sx-sbd2.htm - parapgraph 5 , www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1424176/Foetuses-may-be-conscious-long-before-abortion-limit.html , www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/the-key-question-when-is-the-foetus-a-sentient-being-528676.html%3famp - paragraph 4). They are conscious, but not fully. And even infants aren't fully conscious the way mature people are (www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=alleninstitute.org/media/filer_public/92/6d/926d4215-ee4c-430a-a4f2-1122070ab1b8/2009_09_whendoesconsciousnessarise.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiWtvmbpbLjAhVhxKYKHRlCCMgQFjAQegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw30-Uv23y38pnmEoYHXRwWH, www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-does-consciousness-arise/ - paragraph 3). Babies become fully conscious in 12 to 15 or even 18 moths after birth ( theconversation.com/are-babies-conscious-13628). People who lost consciousness during an accident and who are sleeping are still people. If it was true that consciousness would grant us rights, would it be OK to kill a newborn who is unconscious due to birth injury? And lets assume for the purpose of our thought experiment that it could remain unconscious or asleep of twenty years and grew up, would it be OK to kill it? Many such things as feelings or sentience are really abstract terms with unclear definitions and it is debatable when we actually develop such skills (and in many cases it seems to be after birth). I think we shouldn't grant something as important as basic human rights to individuals based on something as fleeting and uncertain. We can prove that consciousness isn’t the essential part that makes us people with this thought experiment: most of us don’t think that a newborn who is after birth held in a small basket for 20 years and who's never seen the "real world" is not a human. You don't have to be born to finally wake up and start to feel and experience things and certainly our experience doesn't determine our humanity. Embryos move their limbs at the age of 8 weeks ( 3rd paragraph in the text titled First trimester: www.whattoexpect.com/pregnancy/fetal-development/fetal-brain-nervous-system/ ) and to give an order to move to their limb they have to be able to think. And these movements are not mere reflexes. Wikipedia states that "These first movements are not reflexive, but arise from self-generated nerve impulses originating in the spinal cord." ( en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_movement - paragraph 1, sentence 4). We become self-aware 15-24 months after birth ( www.parentingcounts.org/information/timeline/baby-begins-to-develop-self-awareness-15-24-months/ ). Infants recognise right from wrong earliest at six months: www.google.com/amp/s/medicalxpress.com/news/2010-05-psychologists-babies-wrong-months.amp Here is a human in fetal phase of the prenatal development: https: //th-cam.com/video/qi-01eITZaU/w-d-xo.html Here you can see that it moves and shows all basic signs of awerness. There are fetuses born in the fifth mothts of pregnancy. Do you think that this resembles a human infant aware of its surroundings ( th-cam.com/video/sL24-nwMQ6Q/w-d-xo.html )? This embryo looks like it desires to live, when it obviously acts in a very violent and scared manner during an abortion: th-cam.com/video/Vx4AEbOhQow/w-d-xo.html It's done by the vacuum aspiration method, which is used from 3rd to 12th week of gestation: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_aspiration And animals are also conscious, so it doesn't make sense to grant human rights solely because of consciousness. Consciousness surely isn't an ability that makes us human. Animals aren't human. If we granted human rights on such basis, we should arrest people for killing pigs that are aware of their surroundings.
@@The_Life_of_Maddy He probably doesn't know that dogs are as smart as 2-year-olds ( www.google.com/amp/s/amp.livescience.com/5613-dogs-smart-2-year-kids.html ).
The fundamental question is this: What is the Unborn? According to embryology, a unique life is created upon the moment a zygote is formed (fertilization). This is a self developing organism from within with the inherent nature of "human" and has all the genetic info of a human. The only difference between the baby in the womb and outside the womb is its size, level of development, location, and degree of dependency. But these are all things that fluctuate between people and situations throughout life, none of these things justifies killing another human. We are valuable because of what we ARE by nature, not what we BECOME. The value of life is intrinsic, not pragmatic.
@@taco9061 thanks for your reply. Are you saying a person is only valuable if they are conscious? What about when we are sleeping? That's a pragmatic view of life that only values life based on what that person contributes to society. My point is that all life has value due to the fact of our nature: human.
This sounds like an opinionated fabricated definition. Humans have never been “self developing”, we don’t lay eggs and wait for babies to grow. We’re mammals in which unborn need their mothers to survive. Biologists and Embryologists constantly compare anything smaller than a fetus to a parasite. The key phrase here is degree of dependency as you put it. If you were to remove it from the mother before the end of the second tri mester, where the first inkling of consciousness occurs, there is zero chance of survival.
@@user-rm3fc4pd2qthanks for you reply. by self developing i don't mean an egg. I mean that it is a single natured living entity with all the genetic info propelling itself toward continued growth. Every living thing needs a proper environment to survive (even adults, and eggs). Regarding degree of dependency, on that line of thinking, is a 1 year old also not a person? A baby or toddler will not be able to survive on it's own without the care of the mother. Just because a small human hasn't reached it's full maturity doesn't mean it's any less human or deserving of protection.
I am a Christian. I am pro choice. I don't believe in imposing our beliefs on society. If God gives us grace, free will and the gospel i think that same thing should be applied to abortion. When the pro life woman stated that "the same people who oppose abortion don't help after the baby is born" (paraphrasing) the other woman had no response. When talking about the real hardships that these women face, the Christian woman goes into how good God is. As Christians i think we get so caught up in doctrine and trying to play God on earth that we forget people are at different places in their faith. Some have strong faith, lukewarm faith and some don't believe. If we are not, as a church, going to help these women in a real way then they should at least have the option. We should present the gospel and let them make a decision. If we are going to force them into birthing a child then i think we should be obligated to help pay for some of the child's needs. Everyone's always concerned about the baby before it exits the womb, but once it's here then the same people often don't believe in food stamps, free education through college, universal healthcare or any type of government assistance. It's hypocritical.
Killing what? Embryos, cells with no heartbeat, with no brain and no thoughts, if a woman is going to get a abortion they aren't going to get one when they are let's say 8 months pregnant they'll get one at let's say 5 weeks pregnant which is a MAJOR difference
@@dahliapeters6309 It's still a murder. You're killing a human being and you're not different from criminals who're in jail. I'm just telling you how it is. Of course I understand their reasons why, but a lot of those pregnancies are results of mistakes, lack of precautions. So, in the end, "you" cause the problem over lack of responsibility and then you "resolve" that problem that happens to be a person God created by killing it. That's why, if we follow Jesus and do what He said regarding sex, doing it inside marriage (obviously with someone who really is for you, not some random guy or girl EVEN if they're from church or someone talks oh so good about them) we wouldn't have these problems. Of course there's other cases, but in general, people should be responsible for their actions. So, the moment they make it normal the abortion, then the killing of babies will just sky rocket, while if not, they would have to take responsibility. Thankfully, there are many women who were glad they didn't decide to abort and kept their child. To those who aborted, God forgives them, of course, but it's wrong to validate a law that God is against.
Why is there never a discussion on all the ways pregnancy can be discouraged. Birth control, faith, life plan. There is a lot of talk about handling the situation AFTER the fact. Like shutting the gate after the horse is out. Let's talk about not getting ourselves in that situation in the first place.
First off, contraceptives don’t work 100% of the time and secondly, you can make a life plan all you want but life itself don’t care. Rapists don’t care. Secondly, children don’t always get sex Ed in school because people are too afraid to let children see that. Especially parents, sex Ed should be mandated for kids starting puberty.
So should I put that baby on adoption if I don’t want it and go through that pain of giving birth because you won’t allow me the option to take that back
@@yMaalz the option to take it back? You're basically saying the option to punish someone else for your mistake. Take responsibility for your actions, it is simple.
0 11 yes. You don’t just get to kill other humans because of choices or decisions you made. That logic doesn’t stand I. Any other circumstance why should it for a baby in the womb? If killing your baby is going to cause you less pain than giving it up for adoption than you other very serious physiological issues. Also you can have an epidural. It’s not as bad as the movies make it.
I am pro-choice. If you want to be pro-life, then YOU don't get an abortion. That is completly fine. No one wants to have an abortion. But don't strip another person of their rights because you never know their circumstance. Stella Crouch
Stella, do you believe that bodily autonomy is absolute? what are your thoughts on public indecency laws, assault, battery, and other laws that restrict my bodily autonomy? To your first statement, consider: I'm pro-slavery. If you want to be an abolitionist, then don't own a slave. Also, can you think of any circumstances related to pregnancy that should morally result in elective abortion? If so, which ones, and how do they justify taking the life of an innocent human being? Thanks, -Nick
I like the whole idea that you guys are going for but i felt this video was very one sided. I felt as though someone with a stronger opinion on abortion would have presented a better conversation. I felt the lady that was for abortion was more of in the middle.
You meant someone who was completely heartless and emotionless about anyone's but herself's suffering would have presented it better .... Agreed a criminal will definately present the justification for crime better than normal people
You can LITERALLY see miss pro choice agreeing (nodding) with EVERYTHING miss pro life says. She didn’t say no to anything. Didn’t say a thing different.
Such a hard topic. I’m a Christian who has had an abortion and I still have mixed feelings about it. I was in an incredibly abusive relationship with an alcoholic who continued to try to get me pregnant as a means of control. He was from an incredibly wealthy family but was the outcast due to his addiction. When I found out I was pregnant I was so terrified. All I could imagine was constant trips back and forth to court fighting for custody or continuing to allow him to abuse not only myself but our future child. I spoke to a number of women who were raising kids in a toxic parental dynamic. The kids of course had every behavioral and learning disability imaginable and the mothers struggled so much. They all said that if they could do it again they wouldn’t have had the baby. I consoled myself by repeating that to God, no one sin is greater than another. I also felt so much shame around what his family would think who had already said, “if I were looking for a free ride I was barking up the wrong tree”. The one positive outcome was getting pregnant was my wake up call to start making better decisions with my life. I found the strength to stop drinking myself and get out of that relationship - I’ve been sober ever since. Having the child might have been a wonderful experience but taking that chance with all of the known horrors and instability I was experiencing, it didn’t seem fair to take that chance with an innocent child’s life.
Do a survey of all foster kids, I can ASSURE you they appreciate having lived. Please don't make the excuse that they were better off killed in the womb when really you didn't want to go through the hardships of that child. I hope you repented and if you did, God forgives you, just please completely recognize that it is sinful to take the life of a baby in the safest place for it to be (the mothers womb). Jeremiah 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.” Stay blessed 🙏🏽
@@esmereldasnickles8056 most of the Foster kids I’ve met have lived some pretty tormented lives filled with chaos and abuse, only to end up addicted to drugs and living on the streets. My heart just breaks for Ma’khia Bryant, the foster child recently killed by the police.
@@DaringDanielletravels She was about to stab someone...Anyway I can guarantee you that more than 50% of foster kids appreciate getting to live. That does not justify the killing of a baby in the womb.
Personally, I won’t be against you if you’re pro-life so long as you’re only pro-life _for yourself._ I mean, you can do whatever you want to your body; I have no say in that, but to tell me what to do with my body is just wrong and I’m going to lose respect for you if you try. That’s why I’m pro-choice. If she chooses to abort, that’s okay. If she chooses to parent, that’s okay. If she chooses adoption, that’s okay, and I have no right to judge anyone for any decision they make about that.
Being Christian isn’t about your relationship with others but your relationship with God alone. People do not define what Christianity is, Gods love and mercy defines what Christianity is. I respect your decision but I promise you not all Christians are bad and not all are good (debatable whether they are even a Christian). God is Love don’t forget that.
@your below average viewer Having an abortion is to an extent risky thing and also most often emotionally hard so those are also consequences of your actions. Please don't refer to children as punishmemt for sex and sex should not be used as a scare tactic. By having sex you do not consent to pregnancy, birth and taking care of a child (abled or disabled) for the next 18 years.
The prolife christian didn’t even give real facts, she just went on with her gospel. In reality everyone’s situation is different and the world is harsh. No one should be telling any woman what do to with her body bc at the end of the day it’s not like pro life is there when the baby is born!
Every woman should have a choice, I don't care what the bible says, not everyone is religious. Stop worrying about what other people do with their lives. Thank you, and these comments are making my eyes burn. Being a Christian is not a personality trait.
Thank you! Finally one sane comment this weird Christian knockoff of jubilee was in my recommended and the comments are making me lose faith in humanity, just look at their other videos this channel is also hella homophobic
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“it’s a grey area because zygotes don’t have a soul they’re a clump of cells well technically i’m a clump of cells but i don’t know it’s a grey area”
And how would she even know that a Zygote doesn't have a soul. If you going to make that statement then tell me when do you get a soul and do you use to determine that, Or do we all magically get a soul at child birth. Its funny when let the Pro-Choice rationalize why there pro-choice there arguments always falls apart...
Believers need to step up and foster and adopt and make it so that all children in the system are taken care of before we dictate to society that abortion should not be a choice.
Ugh. Pro-life here. It makes me so frustrated when people use religion to argue against abortion.. most pro choicers are not believers in religion, talking religion will not convince them. I never even mention I'm Christian when talking with pro choicers
@@rayblob7945 it's very easy! All the facts and logic are on my side. I have done tremendous research on the topic. Just to show an example: most biologists agree that life begins at conception. In a study, 75% of scientists who even claim to be pro-choice maintain the notion that human life begins when egg and sperm meet. It really confuses me when people say science is on their side.. like who told you That? It's almost unanimously not. Lol
This is naive. The primary reason why there is a divide on this issue is because of the shift in faith in Western society. The idea that you can simply "convince" people about abortion with arguments, when everybody already understands the seriousness of killing one's own offspring is naive. I am a medic and I know lots of medics. The pro-choice ones don't have a single argument that stands for their pro-choice position that can't be refuted. But that isn't the issue. The issue is our beliefs about humanity, God and his authority, whether he created us or we are random etc. You can't just convince people to stop killing their own offspring when they know what they are doing but they want to continue. Utter naivety.
Roughly 75% of women who have abortions do so because of Social-Economic reasons. We need more Women's Resource centers that provide women with blankets, clothes, baby food, etc. Adoption should not be the only option for expecting mothers other than adoption.
BTW, almost all scientists and research supports the idea that human life begins at conception. There is no arguing that it doesn't, idk why people keep thinking science supports the pro choice movement?
@@jug2024 I've not met one person in my life who is pro-life that also believes there shouldn't be an exception for when the mother's life is in danger. People always say this and I don't understand why? Nobody disagrees with you?
@@Taygon094 human life is defined by sentience and personhood or more so the value of human life would be a better way of putting it. Up until a certain point I think the fetus does reach a point in which it achieves these characteristics in which that should be the cut off date for abortions to occur. However in early stages of pregnancy the fetus has no consciousness, no feelings, no emotions, or even the desire to live. The cells functions as they are suppose to and it’s basically like an organs at that point hence a cluster of cells. Now later on yes it begins to develop a heartbeat and so fourth but in the period of time in which abortions happen thats not the case. Also it’s not even abt what I say it’s abt what science says. Science classifies it as cellular life. Now you and I may not agree whether it’s murder or not but the issues still remains that banning abortions doesn’t stop them it simply makes them unsafe. I can hope that we can both agree on the fact that more effort towards creating an environment in which women are able to comfortable have a child (health care, financial support for the child, better foster care and adoption systems, ect.)
Stop that bs , every woman should be able to decide whether go through it or not , what you going to do to a women’s who do not want to have a child? Make them ? Chain them in the basement? It’s only gonna make them go somewhere else and perform it in not safe environment
beth actually goes to my church and she is truly an amazing person and she acts exactly the same in person. She is also an amazing mother and she is an amazing should and a strong amazing women. 🥰
I am so grateful that there is a channel out there facilitating these conversations. However, in every single video the dialogue seems to go like this: 1st Person: Here is what I feel 2nd Person: Here is what God says in His Word. My point is that you are either going to allow God's Word to be the foundation upon which you make your decisions and build your life, or you are going to make "you" the foundation that your life is built upon.
My Mother tells me " I should be happy she kept me" i can say it was so hurtful as an adult to hear my mom say her life would have been better if she got rid of me
@@kimberlylusby3365 I'm sorry you have to experience that. I truly am. Children are a gift from God. I know that sounds preachy and cliche but it's true. We lost one of our twins last year and it makes me think of all the people who chose to terminate children. My son was just outside the age that most states allow for abortions. He didn't make it but he was definitely a human being. I couldn't look at him and think that if you were a few weeks younger you aren't a person and shouldn't get the right to go on living only because I'm the adult with a voice. I sympathize with women who have to face this decision, even if they choose to go through with it. But looking at my son i can't say that abortion is anything less than legalized killing and child abuse. It's making an unhealthy decision for a child that they can't fight against because they yet have the agency to do so. Not a day goes by that I don't miss him or think about him and wonder why he was chosen to go when so many people willingly allow their child to be killed because they don't want them. You are valuable Kimberly even if your mother cannot articulate that fact to you.
Always nice to see an actual civil discussion from people despite them having different views. No name calling or being nasty towards each other here which makes a nice change to see for me.
Science is always changing and I pray you will also have a change of heart. Check out science in the bible well before science caught on. Quarantine for example. Check it out.
Can you please help me understand that argument about a soul? If it has one - what prevents it from getting another body? If God put it there and he is so all knowing - why did he not anticipate that this baby will be aborted? And what happens to the sould after the baby is aborted? If it goes to Heaven is it not really like a free pass?
I think the flaw in discussions like this is that it is a religious point of view versus a non-religious point of view…this generally leads to debating the merits of a religion rather than the topic at hand. I’d like to see two atheists debating or two Christians debating from opposite sides. I think that would lead to more helpful insights for those (like me) who are undecided on the topic. Does anyone else feel this way?
The medical ethics are sound-acceding to the wishes of an adult versus the impulses of a gestating organism. Yes, a human one, but no double standard of law being applied. There’s a clear scientific difference in state and medical difference in manner of death.
When you bring the Bible into the abortion debate you automatically lose because not everyone believes in the Bible. If your opponent doesn't believe in the Bible then how would you argue your pro-life stance to convince them abortion is wrong?
For me pro-choice lady's arguments based on religion were weak. This is not the way to convince those who are not devoted Christian. Another notion is that pro-life should concentrate on reducing need for abortion rather than emotional stories of unborn babies. Abortion is an act of desperation for many cases. Taking aside rape or incest where abortion should be an option there are women in need. Maybe she is scared and penniless. Maybe she need psychological and financial help, then daycare and help with finding a job if decide to keep a baby. Forcing someone to keep unwanted baby and hoping that there is a God plan there and love towards kid will solve all issues is naive. There are numerous stories of kids abused and killed by mothers. Prevention, prevention, prevention. Education that sex is not for fun but to procreate, education about consequences of sex like pregnancy and STDs, education about birth control for all who are in puberty. In the ideal world people will have sex only when married and only when ready and eager to have a child but reality is different. History of ONS and marital infidelity is as long as history of human kind just see Greek myths where gods where busy with ONSes. So, prevention and help. I am pro-choice but for me abortion is hard and personally believe need to be created with caution. I was never pregnant, never have abortion, have no sex and I am happy but will never under no circumstances deprive raped women from a chance to clean herself for perpetrator's remains as I am also women and cannot imagine being forced to keep pregnancy. I don't care for unborn babies, fetus has no importance to me.
It threw me off seeing that the Black woman was pro choice and the white woman was pro life, usually the other way around - seems to be a cultural default
No this is actually pretty accurate. You see this alot at the abortion "clinics" which by the way are usually always strategically located in the poorer neighborhoods. Most of the women that come are black. Blacks have been preyed upon by the democrats for years through governmental assistance programs to keep them dependent upon the government in single mother homes and in turn maintaining their Democrat vote and leftist ideology. It's a vicious cycle. Do your own research. Of the 70 million preborn children murdered through abortion since 1973 have been children of color. Which is the way racist plant parenthood founder Margaret Sanger wanted it. She saw blacks and Indians as "parasites" very wicked woman.
The issue with having religious examples is that just becuase you believe that, wethere its life begins at conception, or that everyone deserves a choice, the truth is not everyone's beliefs are the same. So at what point is it acceptable to force your belief into others?
This is why this argument should be made using secular points instead. I’m religious and pro life but I would never connect the two in an argument because there are plenty of pro life scientific and moral observations that don’t involve religion. It’s more of an inclusive discussion that way.
The truth of who God is, when presented in His name (I.e. with His holy and loving attributes) is what wins people to Christ. It is only the unconverted heart that ever justifies the use of force to change other's beliefs.
Responsibility? Abortion is being responsible? No it's not. It's avoiding it. No one wants to be responsible after they give birth? Again, that should've been YOUR responsibility for not having contraception. We all know this, but IGNORE IT.
@@mcfrickenwatcher195The topic is about the right to murder babies in the womb and you don't think it is somehow a perverse statement to comment how beautiful and gorgeous the ladies discussing the topic are!! It just shows how desensitized we have become as people !!
i’m in the same boat as the pro choice girl. i keep asking God if i should be pro life and pro choice but so much of it is unclear. i’m realizing the only reason i was pro choice is because my friends were. im starting to feel disgusted hearing pro choice arguements and certain things that they say where i didn’t before. i’m pro life now and i hope God gives me more clarity bc i am so lost
None of us are in charge of our own bodies. God gave us life and our lives belong to him. He created us in the womb. He knew us before. The clump of cells that start in the womb that eventually look like a baby is just a “vessel” that holds our soul and takes on a spirit from God. When you abort that baby in the womb you are aborting Gods creation not our own.
Thank you for watching Honest Discourse. We are so thankful to bring people with differing perspectives together for meaningful conversations. As the discussions continue in the comments, we encourage you to engage kindly. The spirit of this format is “discuss, don’t demonize.”
Yes ❤
I am pro life. I have watched many debates on this issue. I have to say, the pro choice woman was so friendly, unlike many who just wanted to argue.
th-cam.com/video/ozfRq5sTW3s/w-d-xo.html
Yes I agree
Pro-lifers can just be as radical as pro-choicers. I prefer to stay neutral when it comes to abortion because I honestly hate how intense modern politics in America is becoming
@Eshita Shukla Christian or not abortion is wrong and it ends a heartbeat on purpose so it is murder
@@mma85libra
mm.. why is a heart beat so important ... can you elaborate ?
Any argument that derives from religion is meaningless to anyone who doesn't also follow that religion
Not necessarily. Many people believe points from religion. This make sence because many of these points are irrefutable and ingrained in humanity
@@barbragennings2383 I think that someone can learn lessons from religion just by the merit of the ideas presented through a story. This means that when you derive an argument from religion you have to still defend that argument like you would any other and can't justify it only by stating "x religion says it it good therefore it is good"
@@benschuster9792 so your saying the argument should be based off of the story's more than general religious statements? If so i agree because the lessons are in the story's
@@barbragennings2383 yes
@@benschuster9792 if you don't mind me asking have you read the Bible or any other religious books? If so what stories do you like from them?
An abortion DOES effect the next person. Quite literally, THE NEXT PERSON is the baby.
There are no if's and's or but's with this statement. Amen.
Cherlock McFly In the situation that you’ve described, yes, I agree that putting the baby out of their misery would be the more merciful thing. However, I don’t believe that such an example would happen very often if ever. I’m not a doctor, but my brother is, and he says that any amount of pain can be managed with appropriate doses of morphine. He also says that in some cases, there is a risk of causing death if you increase the dosage enough to prevent pain, but that is a risk he would take if it’s necessary to prevent a person from being in agony. I agree with him about that. So saying that the most common reason for third trimester abortions is to prevent the baby from experiencing uncontrollable agony is, I think, a red herring.
The disabled people I’ve been around are grateful for the lives they’ve led, which like all lives have good and bad times. Since I’ve never heard a disabled person say that they wish they’d been aborted, I can only guess what might cause someone to think that, but my best guess would be family members making them feel like a burden. A reasonable response would be to try to make them feel wanted and respected, not agree that it would be better if someone had butchered them in the womb. Strange that you think that such an approach is caring.
You also aren’t acknowledging that abortion itself causes horrific pain to the unborn baby, albeit not for very long.
“force a being into existence” That “being” is already in existence. The inside of a uterus is a place that exists, not some kind of theoretical idea.
By the way, my opinions about abortion have nothing to do with religion. Even as religion declines, opinion is turning against abortion because of a new generation of prolifers, many of whom are agnostic or atheist.
Cherlock McFly 2% of abortions are due to rape, incest or the life of the mother. Abortion is murder.
@Cherlock McFly less than 2% of abortions are due to rape/incest or medical issues. I am not religious but pro choice members always bring up the cases of rape/incest and medically necessary abortions even though that is the extreme minority of cause of abortions. As far as late term abortion, they could have made the law to state abortion legal for fetal medically necessity only instead of for the health of the mother. There would literally never, ever be a reason for a late term abortion due to health concerns for the mother. Adding this text to the law allows them to find a way for anyone to get abortion at anytime.
Brier-Rose HopeDiamond What also effects the baby is growing up in a home too poor to afford their life. Not getting proper mental help, physical help and education and ending up on a bad path due to it. It effects the hundreds of thousands of neglected children put into the system, some staying in it feeling unloved until god knows when. It effects the children who suffer with families who abuse or neglect them. It effects the teen moms unable to give them a proper life or make a proper life for themselves.
It effects the single moms and fathers working themselves to the bones to take care of a kid neither of the parents were ready for. It effects the kid that grows up to feel unloved, excluded, etc. Due to not having that other person in their life.
No ones telling you to choose abortion. But mind your own business when it comes to someone else’s choice. You don’t know what the future brings. You don’t know how that unprepared upbringing will effect them and everyone else around them.
I like that they were both humble..no pride just honesty
I mean the pro life woman is so wise but I respect the pro choice woman for voicing her opinion. Props to both of the women for listening and learning from one another!
@Melody Faircloth a human isn't just DNA as my skin cells have my dna but aren't humans, but yes from the moment of conception it is by definition a human being partially because of DNA and thus abortion per definition is murder.
You respect the pro choice woman about voicing her opinion about killing people -- little, tiny babies. We're over 60 million dead because of this carnage. You must respect Hitler too for his opinion on Jews.
@@fevah6790 Listen , a virus and bacteria is considered a living thing on other planets based on science , but a fetus is way different then just a clumpse of cells but it has human essence in it and also spiritual. The fetus is in a process for growth to become as a human life that could either be a prophet of God or a Teacher or could end up being a criminal but still that fetus has a right to grow the same way as us. Who are we to interrupt the growth of that being?
@@reedemed_caleb you sure you tagged the right person?
@@reedemed_caleb I think he was agreeing with the person’s statement. He wasn’t saying that abortions are okay or that babies are actually bunches of cells.
I'm Christian, but when u are responding to a controversial issue u have to explain it in a way that EVERYONE can understand, not just quoting scripture...
@Benicia Galvez I never SAID she did that. and *who are you* to tell me whether or not I'm a Christian. YOU DONT KNOW about my relationship with Christ. If u disagree I would like to know why and have a civil conversation... but if ur just going to attack me... then, bye.
Who cares about babies! Just keep that 🐱 open for business. Download my new game about having an abortion clinic and grow your business by 🔪 babies into small pieces. It's very fun and you need to be smart about growing the business by advertising and creating events and shows and hiring celebrities and buying politicians. You need to promote 6 in movies and every way people look because more 6 equal more business.
Thiiiss!!! Had the same feelings because she kept referring to the word, which makes sense to her... but that is not going to be the case for everyone. I can imagine it made it harder for some people to relate or better understand her. We as Christians need to be a better job of relaying information in a more digestible way.
It’s also difficult to hear an adamant response to this one topic while ignoring how we are supposed to help the poor no matter what. Amongst many other things that are equally important in the Bible.
@@airrun88 I really like that comment even though I am an atheist. I call that humanism.
God told Jeremiah: "Before I formed you in your mother's womb, I knew you and ordained you to be a prophet..." Jeremiah 1:5
Right! From the moment we conceived, we are given purpose and a gift of life. God is intentional. The baby shouldn’t have to suffer bc of the horrendous acts or decisions of another.. He is the giver of life, not us 💯
So what happens when a woman miscarries?
Erica, what happens when a young child dies?
@@williamswenson3970 What? 🤦🏽♀️
@@edubbs5556 I truly believe that their baby is waiting for them in Heaven. So if someone miscarried, they still have that child. They will see them when they get there. The Bible says children are a gift from the Lord : Psalm 127:3. That child will go back to their Creator until the parents get to Heaven to be with them.
I like that both women was very respectful to one another. As a Christian myself, I'm glad the gospel was preached without compromising the truth while being mindful of her tone.
Separation of church and state
“As long as it doesn’t harm the next person”
What about idk the baby???
Antifa420 right
Antifa...repent
😂preachhh
songs plzz so a plant has a heart beat? A baby has a fully formed heart at 3 weeks. A plant is human? Guess what? A baby is human at conception.
@songs plzz or you could just close your fucking legs, or be responsible when you have sex so then you won't be put in the position to consider ending the life of an innocent fucking baby. Its sickening.
It’s important to not use religious examples with those who don’t hold the same standard for life.
Which is great! But the best way to argue is without religious reasons
Without God, why isn’t anything permissible? It is very hard to justify the sanctity of life without coming a religious viewpoint.
Because you use their standard of right and wrong.
For example. If they use the example of rape, you can say, why is rape wrong?
They will usual say something like “you’re violating someone’s body”
Then you’ve got them,
Okay, well that’s what you’re doing to that baby, violating their body.
It’s not the woman’s body, it’s the baby you’re killing.
Victoria Louise Hutchinson-Briars good point. But without believe in God, moral relativism reigns. I’ve heard pro choice women argue that the baby is using their body without their permission. Moral relativism is a slippery slope and anything can be justified. But - yes - that argument would work with some.
I completely understand what you’re saying. And as a Christian, it’s hard not to use Christian arguments based in the bible for this.
But if we did, it can easily be dismissed by others by saying they don’t believe God or the bible to be true. So that’s why it’s important to have arguments based in their belief, and it can be used against them
how does a mother who raised their child, regret later in life that they had that child, and wish they would have killed him/her? (blows my mind)
Alot of women dont want children. How is that so difficult to comprehend?
It’s not hard to understand that not all women want children, just hard to understand a mother of a child looking back and think, “man, I wish I would’ve killed this child when I had the chance.” It’s messed up
@@jmes33579 it's the honest reality when women are forced to birth children they don't want.
sparklyunicorn I understand that it’s the honest reality, I’m only saying that the view of life, motherhood, and murder is really messed in terms of the pro choice movement
@@jmes33579 how is it messed up? Because it actually faces the harsh realities, supports the womans autonomy, and doesn't hide behind limited religious beliefs?
I love how the pro-choice woman was very respectful and had a breakthrough from what she had heard, wonderful discussion between the two sides
th-cam.com/video/ozfRq5sTW3s/w-d-xo.html
She did not have a breakthrough. She still fully believes abortion is a perfectly moral choice. She was only being nice to the woman literally pushing her religion down her throat because even though she made it clear several times she was not religious, the woman kept going so she gave up with trying to reason with her and her fantasies.
Yeah cuz many cameras was on her
Otherwise she would scream, throw objects in pro life woman and calling her murdered or some dumb shitt
Every pro choice protest looks like this.
@@Daniela-gj4jt The pro life woman was simply explaining where she is coming from and how it all comes from her relationship with Christ and not only logical explanation. She wasn't preaching or anything, simply explaining. Why do you guys get so annoyed when someone explains where they come from in Christianity. We aren't forcing our "religion". We are just trying to explain where we are coming from entirety. And thats Christ. Stay blessed 🙏🏽
@@esmereldasnickles8056 y’all don’t ever have any other reasons to do anything other than your indoctrinated religion. Y’all don’t ever form your own opinions and it’s all based on a book written by men a thousand years ago and mistranslated many times. That’s why we get “annoyed”.
Pro life girl is blazing with wisdom
Using God and the Bible is not wisdom, it's fairytales.
@@Cynnas Interesting thought. What is wisdom in your opinion? Why do you say God and the Bible are fairy tales?
@@Cynnas
fairytales can have wisdom too
And beauty
@@paulden3158 But basing laws on subjective opinion that stems from fairy tales - not the way to go unless you want the dark ages back (they did just that).
Man this pro life girl is so good with these points! I want to learn this!
Start to read the bible and download the wisdom.
@@justdoit4834 I'm not sure whether to take that as an offense or not, but I do read the Bible and the way this girl teaches and speaks is really eye opening. So, thank you for the comment but it wasn't really helpful.
@@ashleejohnson4945 Why do you feel offended? You learn this by studying the bible and discussing it with other people. Don't feel offended so easily and try to be tolerant. Have a great day.
@@ashleejohnson4945 I understand where you're coming from. The response you got from that other person, it did kind of seem just like when someone drops a big giant book on the table and it makes a really loud slamming sound, and the person just goes "read this, and download the wisdom" and just walks away. Not the most tactful way to say what I think that person was trying to say, but the advice, although good, it wasn't the best way to express it. The delivery really could have been better. And we shouldn't tell people to "get think skin". So sorry it was told to you like that.
With that, I don't want to just say get some thick skin, but rather, I want to encourage you to look up some blessed women in Christ that I love to be encouraged in the Word from. Yes, the Bible is the first place to go... But it's not an easy read especially if you don't have spiritual "eyes" yet. And here is the other thing, there are a lot of "Bible teachers" who aren't teaching what the Word says CORRECTLY. I.e Joel Olsteen, Bill Johnson, TD Jakes, Paula White (🤦 unfortunately she is Trump's spiritual advisor... She shouldn't be. She's so into the prosperity gospel). Look up Jennie Allen, Priscilla Shirer, Jen Wilkin. These women are amazing. You can look them up here on TH-cam! When they bring up scripture, look it up in the Bible! God bless you ❤️
here is Jen Wilkin...I just love her. She doesn't "mess" with the Word like a lot of other teachers out there...she's a straight shooter with the Word, and that is what I love about her. th-cam.com/video/XuRdeuMv0v8/w-d-xo.html
I wish more pro-choice women were like Nastassja. This was so much better and more civil that what you see on Jubilee's 'Middle Ground.'
The pro-choice women were really respectful on Jubilee I don't see your point
@@SurealG yeah? I was saying pro-choice woman were being respectful, not pro-life?
@@dobbythefreeelf390 I guess what I was saying was confusingly worded what I meant was that pro choice people show up to pro life rallies and a lot of times act uncivil
@@SurealG oh well then can we like agree to disagree because its really late and I have to write a script for drama so I just don't feel like arguing, have a good night :)
I was about to say this reminds me of jubilee but okay 🤔
I was a teen Mom at a time it was very frowned upon. I was shunned by my family and friends. My parents kicked me out at 17 with no place to go, no medical, no job etc.. I had to make it on my own and I did. It has made me a very strong independent woman. My daughter has no doubts about how much I love her. Of course, it was not easy. In fact, it was extremely difficult. In spite of all the obstacles, I continued my education, had a full time job and mothered her.
It can be done! You learn a lot of life lessons very quickly. You learn a lot about yourself as well.
On a good note, I gained tons of respect later on by my family and we are now very close. I actually thanked my parents for not enabling me and forcing me to do it on my own.
You’re an inspiration 👏thank you for your bravery
I commend you for your choice and wish you and your daughter the very best in life. Hardship only makes us better. Pressure makes diamonds and am sure your a gem to your daughter and the people close to you.
Thats a beautiful story and there are many people who made the same decision but the stories don't end the same a child is a beautiful blessing and like you said it was hard and you worked your butt off for your kid ,let people decide on what they want to do not all stories that start the same way end the same way
Jesus loves you. God sent him on the cross to die for YOU so you can be freed from sin and spend all eternity in heaven. He’s coming soon! Good job
@@zanele6830 Agree. But a baby is not an inconvenience to be destroyed. It's a unique beautiful life that depends on it's parents to do the right (yet difficult) actions.
If you make right decisions for the right reason, you are successful in life. Success is not always monetary. Be proud of who you are if you make honorable choices.
Appreciate this long format that is not heavily edited. It allows both sides to clearly express their position and not just jump to conclusion. Thanks for this!
I wish the Pro Life one was more scientific then Christian
False dicotomy. Also, the pro-choice person literally said, "the scientist in me," lol what scientist "in you?" that's the most hilarious statement ever.
Erika Dierke
It’s disgusting how she’s only based on her religion
I agree. I'm a Pro Life atheist. Life begins at conception according to science because at that moment a seperate unrepeatable DNA type is created, so therefore killing it would be immoral. (However in cases of rape, incest and life of the mother or baby, abortion should be legal but not encouraged in case of rape and incest)
Edit: I am now a Catholic and my opinions have changed. I'm now radically Pro-life
Wtf is wrong being religious you can still use science, if that your excuse with not being pro life idk what to say.
@@ShadowBan666 You can't force your religion on people. You can't force your laws based on a 2000 yo book on people. You god is just one of the many gods out there. Respect other people beliefs and stop trying to make people feel bad for """sins""" that were invented 2000 years ago.
This proLife girl knows the scripture! Praise Yahweh!
Praise God!
praise nicki purrr
The pro life woman is obviously an indoctrinated fool who isn’t thinking logically
@@cheyennesheila7709 bitch the Bible supports slavery
@@j.dariorodriguez7173 huh? No it doesn’t. Have you read the Bible?
As pro-choice woman, It's refreshing to watch a pro-lifer and pro-choicer talking calmly and listening and learning from each other instead of screaming, ignoring each other, insulting, all those things.
theyre both very respectful towards each other, the pro life women is very educated on this
Angry Beaver you mean the pro choice (pro murder) girl is indoctrinated
TheLady you mean pro choice a woman’s right to her own body to who ever uses it. If we can’t force a woman to donate her body to her 2 year old, a sick dying person in the hospital, a stranger down the street, her own father we can not force her to sustain a fetus!
If we agree the fetus is a person with equal rights than if I can’t force the woman to ustain my life neither can the fetus.
Who owns the woman’s body? The fetus? Or the woman?
I know you indoctrinated fools like to argue a “right to life”. We all have that including the fetus. We all have a right to life but not at the expense of someone else.
The pro life movement is the pro birther movement! You don’t give a shit about life if you are a means of forcing it.
The pro birther movement is woman are incubators and not human beings. That kind of thinking is dishonest and disgusting.
Oh abortion means the termination of a pregnancy! Murder means a innocent person being killed unjustified. If the woman didn’t consent to the pregnancy. The fetus is in fact violating her bodily autonomy rights. This makes the fetus not innocent and the woman still remains innocent. Just because she can get pregnant doesn’t mean that’s all she’s meant to do. And that is just incredibly insulting to anyone.
Think your shit through.
Steven Corey Yes a woman's life comes before the fetus's that's true. But to ignorantly think that most abortions are taking place because the mother's life is in danger? That's a rare occurrence. Female bodies were created so they can hold babies so only a small percentage of them would actually die from giving birth to one. Most abortions are stupid because the woman just doesn't want the baby because she's "too young" or something equally as retarded as that. If you're capable of having sex and getting pregnant you sure as hell are capable of having a baby. We weren't created stupidly with faults in our bodies. In _no way_ is killing a fetus just cuz you feel like it humane. It's murder and if you can't see that then you do not know how truly gruesome it is to literally pull a baby apart limb by limb.
Steven Corey first of all I URGE you to take testosterone enhances because I can tell you’re not masculine. The woman’s right to choose is NOT her choice. Does the woman have 4 arms? 4 legs? 2 brains? No! Therefore it is NOT her body to decide on. Who are they to tell people whether or not a baby deserves to live or not? The word “fetus’ is BABY in Latin.
@@stevencorey7623 I'm sorry, but that was the most ridiculous "argument," if I could even call it that. BIOLOGICALLY, women's reproductive systems, again REPRODUCTIVE systems are made to REPRODUCE. Women conceive the child, the child doesn't make itself. Imbecile 🤦🏽♀️
This was the most calm, respectful discussion on this topic I've ever seen. Two lovely women actually listening to each other and trying to understand "The other side".
Tbh I love it when people actually listen to others! Unlike most comment sections.
@@valsipstones6871 sameee it’s absolutely beautiful yo!!
assa christian, she issa good example of how loving true christians really are. its a common thing that people think we force a view when we are loving human with a choice of lifestyle. We just want you to experience what he experience with jesus
“They either regretted having an abortion or regretted not one”?!?! That’s a horrible statement to say about your child. I don’t understand it...
Cary Peterson i cannot believe she said she knew some mothers who didn’t get the abortion who regretted it.... like wtf u regret having your child
John 8: 10-11 10) When Jesus had lifted up Himself,
and saw none but the woman, He said unto her,
Woman where are thine accusers ? hath no man
condemned thee? 11) She said, No man, Lord.
And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn
thee : go, and sin no more.
Follower Of My Lord amen. Sin no more! No more getting abortions
ORaddlyispissedoff I wrote this verse not only to point out the sin. But to also point out that we who are all sinners are not to condemn , but to show the way to which salvation is possible through Our LORD JESUS CHRIST alone and that it is he who will judgeth all for what they do. GOD bless you always brother. 🕊🕊🙏🕊🕊
Follower Of My Lord I know what you’re trying to do 🙂
“Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?”
1 Corinthians 6:2-3 KJV
I wish the pro life girl's arguments were less religious. Not that her points are wrong, or that pro life is wrong. But you can make arguments and maybe more farther reaching arguments if its not based on religion. Because harder to impose those things on others when they don't follow your religion.
BTEguitardude I agree. I am religious and pro-life but I feel it is important to support my opinion with science/facts that are not faith based. You can’t persuade a non-Christian with Christian beliefs. I do appreciate the respectful dialogue between the two women. I wish more people would respectfully listen to others with different points of view.
The problem is that there is no reason to not abort if you believe that God doesn’t exist. If there is no objective standard it’s one opinion over an other.
@@JakeRuzi I don't believe in God, I still don't murder people, and not because of murder laws, but because it's wrong.
@@arandom1024 why is it wrong according to you?
@@JakeRuzi As a Christian person who has a logical foundation. You don't need religious anything to make a pro-life argument. The abortion argument is pretty simple:
She shouldn't have to fill in the blank for the sake of that fetus.
It asserts that her convenience is more valuable than the fetus. As human life has ultimate relative value on Earth, this is invalid. If you disagree with this statement (ik you probably don't) answer me this: If a human is hanging off a cliff and there's something else on the other side, and you can only save 1, name something that's not a human where you can justify letting that person die.
Potential Objections: The fetus isn't alive. The problem with that is that 1) Humanity lacks the scope to definitively define human life so the logical thing to do is to say as early as possible. Even if you say that's false and life begins whenever(doesn't matter whether it's consciousness, memory, whatever characteristic) there's a "yet" missing from that Fetus isn't alive statement. Human development happens in stages. You know beyond a reasonable doubt that the fetus will attain those qualities in the future and are taking measures to prevent it. What species is that clump of cells? Choose the answer that is most accurate. If it's not alive why is a woman who just got the news so happy or so distraught? Because she's projecting into the future at the responsibility she knows is coming. Your emotions betray your assertions here. Would you tell a woman who had a miscarriage not to be sad bc her baby was just a parasite or a clump of cells.Of course not. The current state is irrelevant as the future one is a near-certainty
The abortion argument is more accurately stated: I don't want to deal with the responsibility of a child, so I'll kill it before it becomes one. It's an argument marred with hubris, selfishness, and arrogance. So eager to abandon the most vulnerable because they're inconvenient. Pro-choicers who have spent a generation manipulating fearful and vulnerable women into believing they have the right to exercise this option as some sort of overcompensation for a historical lack of sexual autonomy, which is evil.
Pro-life, baby!
💖💖💖💖
Me too
Love you
be pro life, just without your religion involved.
Abortions will always exist and will always be used 🧡✨😉
Regarding the statement that its more cruel to bring a child in to the world that is likely to suffer than it is just to abort the fetus is such an easy one to refute. No one can predict the future. A child born in to poverty could spend a lifetime of suffering or could rise above and do wonderful things. Using that statement thats its less cruel just to abort the baby, then it must be ok to kill a child that is already born that is suffering. Some people believe this as well.
Terry Fraser That same logic can justify infanticide.
vorcazm either way it's still a life whether inside or outside the womb
I think every person who uses this as an excuse, should take a LOOONG HARD look at their hearts and figure out if they are REALLY concerned about the child’s welfare, or if they are actually just concerned that it will make life hard for THEM. I think most will find that the real heart motivation is the latter.
@@ruaraidh74 Yes!!!! THIS!!
Well it is the eugenics argument
The woman in the glasses wants to believe and know more of God and truth
I got that impression, too👌
I got that impression to
God isn’t truth bitch. There’s no proof of your god so how is it truth.
@@j.dariorodriguez7173 we can all have different opinions about things in this world without getting nasty and offensive. It's called tolerance. Concerning your question......pick up the bible and find it out yourself😉 much love to you✌
@@j.dariorodriguez7173 shut up bitch
Religious people have to realize that it is their right in America to choose a religion of their choosing. BUT so does everyone else, to choose or not to choose. Not everyone believes in God. You cannot inflict your religious views on another person’s life. This country was built on the basis of the separation of church and state. Abortion is incredibly simple. If you want one, get one. If you don’t, then don’t get one. Keep abortions legal, safe, and accessible.
Abortion isn’t simple. I have 3 personal experiences from my bestfriends and family member that got abortions and had to deal with the mental issues of the aftermath, that they all knew came from this decision. None of them were ‘religious’ at the time, so yes it is Gods will to be pro life but it also goes to show that it’s not just a ‘religious view’.
its not that simple at all, half the country believes that making abortion illegal would be literally making women be pregnant and having children against their will, the other half believes that it is literally murdering a baby. the problem is, it is a philosophical question on whether or not that a fetus is a human being or not, and that is a question that unfortunately none of us are qualified to answer.
This!!!
@PeriodicalAdventures pro life and non religious right here.
@@arandom1024 it is a life and since it´s a life from a human, it´s a human being.
the pro-life woman was exceptional,thoughtful and accurate
the pro-choice woman was exceptional,thoughtful and understandable
th-cam.com/video/ozfRq5sTW3s/w-d-xo.html
Eh…
This pro life girl is just so well spoken and put together because she speaks the word of the gospel and speaks the word of Christ.
Jeremy C the word of gospel and Christ is fake ash. Bring Christ to me to fact check the bible😊
I think science proves more that life begins at conception
@songs plzz She means *human* life dumbass
It most certainly does
so a fetus isn’t a human?
@@naomigrace8261 it is
But a zygote is not it’s just a group of cells
More Of Siza Skosaan but us adults are also just a group of cells ??
That pro-life gal is so solid in her theology and faith, I’m blown away! What an inspiration! The pro-choice gal was also very respectful and kind, which is hard to come by on that side. Very great video! 👍🏼
😂😂😂😂
same with the prolife or shall we say pro birth side. both sides have stupid people
The pro-life is actually quite aggressive....so idk what you're on.
@@RPKD88 Hm, neither of them seemed aggressive at all in this video. 👍🏼
@@marilouise1715 yes but in general, both prolife(basically pro birth) and pro choice are aggressive *but* atleast pro choice people have never forced or tried to force a literal child through child birth
Even an adult human is a lump of cells . Good point !
Do you genuinely think that is a good point and that her arguments were solid?
@@kurlykayla9013, yes, cuz all adults are are a lump of cells according to science.
@@DJUniMekaju Cognisance is the key factor most are referring to when distinguishing between the cells that make up adult humans and the cells that make up an undeveloped fetus. One has it. The other doesn't. Therefore, one undergoes the ramifications of the decision more than the other. This is why women's choice is integral because only the woman, not the fetus, can make the decision that is best for her life, and, by extension, the unborn baby's life if she decides to give birth.
Furthermore, if you truly believe any assortment of cells that make up humans is sacred, then you should in turn take issue with sperm cells being wasted by the billions every day by men who masturbate. These lumps of cells also make up the beginnings and potential of human life. But for whatever reason, by your logic, sperm cells are less important than a fetus.. and yet, a fetus is somehow more important than a cognisant adult woman. You see where your logic starts to break down?
@@kurlykayla9013 , and yet people never mention cognizance. They always mention the lump of cells argument. The difference between sperm and a fetus is that they are genetically different. The sperm is genetically part of the host while the fetus is a completely different being. You are arguing that it's okay to kill something that is genetically different then the host out of convenience which sounds disturbing. Why not argue for the adoption system to be better? And if it's the right for the woman to choose to kill something her and a man-made, then it should be the right of the man to choose to pay child support and alimony. Things should be fair.
@@DJUniMekaju The lump of cells argument is the cognisance argument. They are one in the same. I am not arguing adoption because abortion isn't simply about not wanting to be a parent. Abortion deals specifically with the process of childbirth. As I mentioned in another comment, pregnancy and childbirth alter a woman's anatomy, painfully and permanently, and puts her through physical, emotional, and mental trauma that have residual effects for the rest of one's life. It doesn't happen in the blink of an eye. It is not frivolous. Women die from this. To force them to go through something as serious as childbirth when they're not willing and ready is nothing short of barbaric. Yes, more barbaric than terminating a non-cognisant lump of cells.
Your argument about sperm doesn't make sense. What do you mean sperm is genetically different from the host? The sperm contains the host's genetics. As does a fetus. And the fetus is far more connected and intertwined with the host than sperm is. Both are just a collection of non-cognisant cells that are the beginnings of human life. I don't see why one suddenly becomes more important than the other, and I definitely don't see why a fetus is more important than a woman's well being.
Let me be clear: women are not incubators. Your problem is that you view women's bodies as mere baby-delivery vessels that are unfeeling and not at all connected with the fetus. You think childbirth is some simple inconvenience when it is actually the most important thing a human being can ever do. Perhaps if you had a little more care and concern for the bodies carrying these fetuses you apparently have so much concern for, you'd realize how callous you come off as. But of course, that would require you to actually empathize with women, and I'm willing to bet such a feat isn't so easy for you.
Like most anti-choicers, you allow dogma to shape your opinion, and you lack perspective as a result.
They chose these two women for a reason. Two people that aren’t arguing and not willing to open their ears to here each other’s mindsets. Good job selecting these two for this topic 👍🏼
but they were open. they might not agree but they were open to hearing and even sharing their thoughts on each other's story. listening to someone's story does not require agreement from any party
Let me preface this with saying yes, I am a Christian. I've spent a lot of time researching these kinds of debates, and wondering where I stand, and if you want me to be completely honest - I don't think we should ban abortions. Hear me out. If we make a rape exception (which a lot of people don't agree with, but let's go with it for the sake of the argument), there will be so many more false rape allegations. Even more than there are now. If we don't make a rape exception, then we force millions of women to push a baby out of the same part of their body that was brutally violated. If we ban abortions, people will just do them unsafely either across the border or in their own homes. If we ban abortions, the amount of children in our (broken) foster system will skyrocket. More and more children will grow up in poverty, nearly starving.
Not only that, but we, as Christians, tend to be attacking the end result, rather than the root of the problem. So many people are rallying against comprehensive sex education, even when it's been proven that states with the strictest sex ed are the ones with the highest teen pregnancy rates. Not enough people are advocating for easier access to contraception, not enough people are advocating for foster care reform.
We, as Christians, are not recognizing that banning abortions altogether isn't the answer. If we want to protect the lives of these babies and their mothers, we need to make it harder to conceive a child and easier to raise one. I hope this makes sense to you guys, and I hope you have a blessed day.💛💛
You are an amazing person. If only there were more people like you.
You are not a Christian if you are not advocating for the sanctity of human life
Mark Kozin lol
@@markkozin9730 You are not a Christian if you make judgements on someone else's faith. Furthermore, it's important to recognize that abortion is a complicated issue. I believe that banning abortion is not what will prevent it. I want to considerably reduce the amount of abortions performed, but banning them is not the most efficient way to do so
@@sarahebert2510 The question is what is just?
There are unjust ways of reducing abortion, e.g. deeming all children wards of the state, locking every pregnant woman up and monitoring them so they don't commit an abortion, and then taking their children; even though that would be super effective at lowering abortion rates, it would be unjust. The purpose of law is to be just.
But is it just for someone to kill another person and go free? Is it just to let the lie that "abortion is the solution to the pregnant woman in distress's problems" be repeated without challenge? Does caring for orphans and widows mean killing the orphans so that the widows don't have extra financial burdens? Is it just to let a pregnant woman believe that she's alone in the world and has to fend for herself, and that no one in her life cares enough about her to help her, and help her take care of her child?
Is it just that infanticide is listed as "just another option"?
Is it just that the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is legally protected for everyone but the unborn?
All the pro-life said girl is "because God" and "because the bible" and that´s it. I don´t know what she thinks about it. The pro-choice girl was more of what she thinks not her as a christian. That´s a big difference when you talk about this topic. The mindset is important.
If having a baby would be sooooo horrible for your life, then why in the world would you not take the precautions necessary to avoid getting pregnant in the first place??? It's not that hard to avoid getting pregnant.
M Williams right
People who were raped by family members, strangers, friends ? Who in the world said getting pregnant wasn't that hard?! It can be extremely hard for those who are in terrible communities or positions, such as dangerous home lives, to not get pregnant.
@@froyo424 even in the very very rare cases of rape or incest, it's not the baby's fault. The baby is innocent and should not be killed. All human life is sacred.
Its gray because you are not willing to admit you are wrong
And by what authority are you right?
@your below average viewer Well I have dedicated my time and energy to view and get an in-depth undertanding of this issue and all possible points of view and my conclusion is not the same but I am not as close minded to call it the universal truth. Just calling out people on both sides who have not done their research and have only loud surface based opinions.
@your below average viewer damn fam you just completely obliterated him.
Abortion will quite literally always exist weather you make it illegal or not. By making abortion illegal you’re literally making things worse for women AND the babies. And what blows my mind is that you actually think you’re the heroes. If the women wants to have the baby or not, it’s HER choice. Are you seriously expecting them to wait until its capable to make a decision to live?? If you were to save a fully developed baby or a container of eggs from a burning building which one would it be? When it’s inside the mother it’s literally her. They’re connected. If the baby is causing her harm she has every right to end the pregnancy. Don’t start with that bullcrap about it’s rights because it literally cannot even fathom the concept of life or anything of that matter yet. I do agree when it gets to like 6 months it’s ridiculous to have an abortion. But do you realize the majority of abortions happen in the first 6 weeks?? When “the baby” is literally just a blob. You call it murder to make it seem like something horrific and justifiable. If it’s murder then miscarriages are manslaughter bruh. All I’m saying is, more places outside of the US like Ireland are making abortion legal. It’s expanding and growing. Y’all can’t stop that 🤷🏻♀️
@@Skylakota it's still murderer not a choice
Wow. It's encouraging to see an actually believing Christian talk. Great job sister! Praise our Holy God.
Christianity doesn’t apply to everyone
@@bigj3n I know. God's standards apply to everyone though.
Ronnie D but not everyone believes in god
@@bigj3n Everyone knows God exists. What people do is suppress that truth and worship something different. Such as themselves, creation itself, money, sex, etc. Everyone knows it's wrong to murder, lie, and cheat. People know this because God put a conscience in us. He put His moral code in us, but sadly we all do a great job in not living up to it and far to many times we ignore our conscience. Do it enough times and we go numb and no longer feel it.
Yes!!
Why is it that we declare someone dead when there is no longer a heart beat... but we dont consider someone alive with a heart beat
100
Most ab0rtions happen before the fetus has a heartbeat so 😐
@@hopebby3750 abortion is available up to 24 weeks and theres a heartbeat at 5-6 weeks
@@sexyma12345678910 yea but most women choose to ab0rt in the first 2-4 weeks
Pro life , all life is life . Praise God for he is Good.
The pro lifer hit everything on the nail , God knew us before he formed us in the womb 🙏🙌 a seed has been planted now God will water the rest
but the thing people need to realize is that not everyone believes in god
@@ilovejazz87 then they shall be judged by God
But sometimes God won’t water after the child is born, leaving many children abused or malnourished.
@@ilovejazz87 pro life non religious person here if you have any questions :)
It's so heartbreaking watching people of color be so indoctrinated by your colonizers religion. I hope you free yourself from that evil.
If every life is sacred, then we must abolish the death penalty!
Not necessarily.. You can be pro life and pro justice
@@DryWaterFilms pro justice is not pro murder.
@@jupiterstone827 I agree. Murder is unjustified. The death penalty is not murder since it is justified.
@@DryWaterFilms by who? Is God striking that person dead?
Abortion is protected by the law as well. So who are you to decide which one is permitted. If you are operating under the law, what's the issue?
@@jupiterstone827 I don’t ultimately submit to man’s law, I submit to God’s. Man’s law has clearly been wrong in cases like slavery and abortion. God, in a case like capital punishment, uses government authorities that “He instituted” (Romans 13:1) to carry out justice. “For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer”. (Romans 13:4)
I am agnostic and have studied the bible multiple times. Genesis 2:7 says "Then the Lord God formed the man out of the dust from the ground and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and the man became a living being." and from what I get from that is that you have to take your first breath to be alive.
My outlook is still the same. Pro-choice is empathetic. Pro-life is just God, God, God, and God.
I am pro life myself, but that same point of God God God really annoyed me. It’s a cop out when you don’t really know why you believe something. The wwjd type response is so played out and doesn’t help the argument.
@@Cristalin88 Jesus would’ve supported the women at the abortion clinics lol
@@marycassidy1570 no lol God doesn't kill
@@marycassidy1570 No he wouldn't lol
Not all pro lifers are Christian or religious, there are many atheist pro lifers
The pro life chick only defended her opinion with her religion, not everyone wants to be apart or believe in your religion so if you’re going to argue bring up more reasoning as why abortion is wrong other than your religious and moral beliefs. One women is speaking about facts and this woman is speaking feelings. Your religion shouldn’t play apart in politics and another person’s rights over their body.
Abortion has absolutely nothing to do with a woman's autonomy. A baby, in your womb, is not your body.
I think it was Reagan who said "I've noticed everyone who supports abortion has already been born" (not an exact quote just how I remember it)
Right. If it was the woman’s body then it would be suicide, not murder.
Well if she wants to remove something from her that is her choice. Don’t kill the baby, but don’t keep it in the women.
@@Alibern7 you're making up impossible hypotheticals
@@Alibern7 it is entirely possible to not get pregnant in the first place in all situations other than rape (which in many cases could be avoided but sometimes can not - this doesn't mean the girl getting raped is at fault but that it is certainly possible to take steps to minimize the potential of being raped)
totally and I AM a feminist. famous feminist Betty fredian was actually critical of abortion!
They aren't pro life, they are pro birth. These people couldn't care less about the life and welfare of the mother and child after birth.
So you deny the existence of charity organizations?
@@johnbenson4927 who said “charity” is a pro-life ???
Autonomy is God creation and it’s a child. When I was lost in my sin, I was selfish. Selfishness is to hate self and others too. Once I was saved by grace of God, I see the goodness of God now.
I’m very pro life (not debating in the comments about that) but quite a few people in the comments have pointed out that this was fairly one sided in favor of the pro life argument.
I love you guys and love everything you’re doing, but maybe we could include people with stronger opinions on the matter?
Again, love the video, love you all, and God bless.
What stronger opinions? "Life starts after the baby was born" or "A baby is a parasite" or "It's just a clump of cells" This is all I hear from their side tbh, nothing was one sided at all. 🤔
@@esmereldasnickles8056 Yes it was, one was listening and learning and one was lecturing. The Christian Girl was not listening nor learning at all.
@@andrineborbe2470 why, because she didn't end up agreeing with the pro choice lady? the pro choice lady didn't end up agreeing with her either but she was still listening and learning?
she wasn't lecturing at all, both of them kept.calm tones of voice, were respectful and really listened. they have their own thoughts and beliefs but that doesn't have anything to do with lecturing?
I love how she shared the gospel with her afterwards. So much courage and grace. I love that.
The pro-lifer in this video is a pediatric nurse yet she can't put one argument backed by science. I mean why force your religion onto others?
*Pro-choicers, I have a question:* Do some of you really believe that fetuses aren't human? And what species are they then?
I been wondering abt that
songs plzz Oh, so the murder of a human child depends on intelligence? Guess it’s ok to kill all the dumb people in my school now....
@songs plzz The key difference here is that it's human. There is no doubt that it is because it cannot belong to another species. Abortion just undoubtedly is killing of a human being by its own mother because every DNA test proves that a fetus inside her is her offspring.
I am only against killing of innocent humans against their will. That's he definition of murder.
@songs plzz *The consciounsness argument debunked:*
Fetuses are conscious ( www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/issues/sx-sbd2.htm - parapgraph 5 , www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1424176/Foetuses-may-be-conscious-long-before-abortion-limit.html , www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/the-key-question-when-is-the-foetus-a-sentient-being-528676.html%3famp - paragraph 4). They are conscious, but not fully. And even infants aren't fully conscious the way mature people are (www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=alleninstitute.org/media/filer_public/92/6d/926d4215-ee4c-430a-a4f2-1122070ab1b8/2009_09_whendoesconsciousnessarise.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiWtvmbpbLjAhVhxKYKHRlCCMgQFjAQegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw30-Uv23y38pnmEoYHXRwWH,
www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-does-consciousness-arise/ - paragraph 3).
Babies become fully conscious in 12 to 15 or even 18 moths after birth ( theconversation.com/are-babies-conscious-13628).
People who lost consciousness during an accident and who are sleeping are still people. If it was true that consciousness would grant us rights, would it be OK to kill a newborn who is unconscious due to birth injury? And lets assume for the purpose of our thought experiment that it could remain unconscious or asleep of twenty years and grew up, would it be OK to kill it?
Many such things as feelings or sentience are really abstract terms with unclear definitions and it is debatable when we actually develop such skills (and in many cases it seems to be after birth). I think we shouldn't grant something as important as basic human rights to individuals based on something as fleeting and uncertain.
We can prove that consciousness isn’t the essential part that makes us people with this thought experiment: most of us don’t think that a newborn who is after birth held in a small basket for 20 years and who's never seen the "real world" is not a human. You don't have to be born to finally wake up and start to feel and experience things and certainly our experience doesn't determine our humanity.
Embryos move their limbs at the age of 8 weeks ( 3rd paragraph in the text titled First trimester: www.whattoexpect.com/pregnancy/fetal-development/fetal-brain-nervous-system/ ) and to give an order to move to their limb they have to be able to think. And these movements are not mere reflexes. Wikipedia states that "These first movements are not reflexive, but arise from self-generated nerve impulses originating in the spinal cord." ( en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_movement - paragraph 1, sentence 4).
We become self-aware 15-24 months after birth ( www.parentingcounts.org/information/timeline/baby-begins-to-develop-self-awareness-15-24-months/ ).
Infants recognise right from wrong earliest at six months: www.google.com/amp/s/medicalxpress.com/news/2010-05-psychologists-babies-wrong-months.amp
Here is a human in fetal phase of the prenatal development: https: //th-cam.com/video/qi-01eITZaU/w-d-xo.html
Here you can see that it moves and shows all basic signs of awerness.
There are fetuses born in the fifth mothts of pregnancy. Do you think that this resembles a human infant aware of its surroundings ( th-cam.com/video/sL24-nwMQ6Q/w-d-xo.html )?
This embryo looks like it desires to live, when it obviously acts in a very violent and scared manner during an abortion:
th-cam.com/video/Vx4AEbOhQow/w-d-xo.html
It's done by the vacuum aspiration method, which is used from 3rd to 12th week of gestation: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_aspiration
And animals are also conscious, so it doesn't make sense to grant human rights solely because of consciousness. Consciousness surely isn't an ability that makes us human. Animals aren't human. If we granted human rights on such basis, we should arrest people for killing pigs that are aware of their surroundings.
@@The_Life_of_Maddy He probably doesn't know that dogs are as smart as 2-year-olds ( www.google.com/amp/s/amp.livescience.com/5613-dogs-smart-2-year-kids.html ).
I will always be pro life
@ Pro life specifically means, that’s you support the fact that baby in The womb has a reason to live.
@ every baby deserves a chance at life killing it out of convenience is wrong. That’s my stave my brother. God bless!!
Stands*
🙏♥️
👍
The fundamental question is this: What is the Unborn?
According to embryology, a unique life is created upon the moment a zygote is formed (fertilization). This is a self developing organism from within with the inherent nature of "human" and has all the genetic info of a human. The only difference between the baby in the womb and outside the womb is its size, level of development, location, and degree of dependency. But these are all things that fluctuate between people and situations throughout life, none of these things justifies killing another human.
We are valuable because of what we ARE by nature, not what we BECOME. The value of life is intrinsic, not pragmatic.
I agree with your response, well explained :)
@@taco9061 thanks for your reply. Are you saying a person is only valuable if they are conscious? What about when we are sleeping? That's a pragmatic view of life that only values life based on what that person contributes to society. My point is that all life has value due to the fact of our nature: human.
@@taco9061 that's sick.
This sounds like an opinionated fabricated definition. Humans have never been “self developing”, we don’t lay eggs and wait for babies to grow. We’re mammals in which unborn need their mothers to survive. Biologists and Embryologists constantly compare anything smaller than a fetus to a parasite. The key phrase here is degree of dependency as you put it. If you were to remove it from the mother before the end of the second tri mester, where the first inkling of consciousness occurs, there is zero chance of survival.
@@user-rm3fc4pd2qthanks for you reply. by self developing i don't mean an egg. I mean that it is a single natured living entity with all the genetic info propelling itself toward continued growth. Every living thing needs a proper environment to survive (even adults, and eggs).
Regarding degree of dependency, on that line of thinking, is a 1 year old also not a person? A baby or toddler will not be able to survive on it's own without the care of the mother. Just because a small human hasn't reached it's full maturity doesn't mean it's any less human or deserving of protection.
I am a Christian. I am pro choice. I don't believe in imposing our beliefs on society. If God gives us grace, free will and the gospel i think that same thing should be applied to abortion. When the pro life woman stated that "the same people who oppose abortion don't help after the baby is born" (paraphrasing) the other woman had no response. When talking about the real hardships that these women face, the Christian woman goes into how good God is. As Christians i think we get so caught up in doctrine and trying to play God on earth that we forget people are at different places in their faith. Some have strong faith, lukewarm faith and some don't believe. If we are not, as a church, going to help these women in a real way then they should at least have the option. We should present the gospel and let them make a decision. If we are going to force them into birthing a child then i think we should be obligated to help pay for some of the child's needs. Everyone's always concerned about the baby before it exits the womb, but once it's here then the same people often don't believe in food stamps, free education through college, universal healthcare or any type of government assistance. It's hypocritical.
Life is always on the right side of history.
Killing unjustly is Never.
Killing what? Embryos, cells with no heartbeat, with no brain and no thoughts, if a woman is going to get a abortion they aren't going to get one when they are let's say 8 months pregnant they'll get one at let's say 5 weeks pregnant which is a MAJOR difference
@@trinitylavoie5879 apparently fetus have a heart at around 20 days it's never justified to abort a life for your own convince.
@@mcwaff8661 as long as it's in my body and it cannot survive outside of my body,yes I can
@@dahliapeters6309 It's still a murder. You're killing a human being and you're not different from criminals who're in jail. I'm just telling you how it is. Of course I understand their reasons why, but a lot of those pregnancies are results of mistakes, lack of precautions. So, in the end, "you" cause the problem over lack of responsibility and then you "resolve" that problem that happens to be a person God created by killing it. That's why, if we follow Jesus and do what He said regarding sex, doing it inside marriage (obviously with someone who really is for you, not some random guy or girl EVEN if they're from church or someone talks oh so good about them) we wouldn't have these problems. Of course there's other cases, but in general, people should be responsible for their actions. So, the moment they make it normal the abortion, then the killing of babies will just sky rocket, while if not, they would have to take responsibility. Thankfully, there are many women who were glad they didn't decide to abort and kept their child. To those who aborted, God forgives them, of course, but it's wrong to validate a law that God is against.
@@trinitylavoie5879 but you were an embryo once and now ur a living human being
Why is there never a discussion on all the ways pregnancy can be discouraged. Birth control, faith, life plan. There is a lot of talk about handling the situation AFTER the fact. Like shutting the gate after the horse is out. Let's talk about not getting ourselves in that situation in the first place.
We need to stop sexualizing everything and teach our children to wait before marriage and you would have a big drop in unwanted pregnancy.
@@Teddy-bs9ec abstinence-only never ever works teaching them about protection now that works
First off, contraceptives don’t work 100% of the time and secondly, you can make a life plan all you want but life itself don’t care. Rapists don’t care.
Secondly, children don’t always get sex Ed in school because people are too afraid to let children see that. Especially parents, sex Ed should be mandated for kids starting puberty.
Life is sacred! Those God given babies should also have the right to live!
So should I put that baby on adoption if I don’t want it and go through that pain of giving birth because you won’t allow me the option to take that back
@@yMaalz the option to take it back? You're basically saying the option to punish someone else for your mistake. Take responsibility for your actions, it is simple.
Jacqueles Twali really? You understand God and can tap into His mind? What authority do you have to decide how God should think and what He should do?
0 11 yes. You don’t just get to kill other humans because of choices or decisions you made. That logic doesn’t stand I. Any other circumstance why should it for a baby in the womb? If killing your baby is going to cause you less pain than giving it up for adoption than you other very serious physiological issues. Also you can have an epidural. It’s not as bad as the movies make it.
About 25% of all pregnances end by miscarriage. That doesn't even count babies that die during or shortly after birth.
Is that God given too?
I am pro-choice. If you want to be pro-life, then YOU don't get an abortion. That is completly fine. No one wants to have an abortion. But don't strip another person of their rights because you never know their circumstance.
Stella Crouch
Stella, do you believe that bodily autonomy is absolute? what are your thoughts on public indecency laws, assault, battery, and other laws that restrict my bodily autonomy?
To your first statement, consider: I'm pro-slavery. If you want to be an abolitionist, then don't own a slave.
Also, can you think of any circumstances related to pregnancy that should morally result in elective abortion? If so, which ones, and how do they justify taking the life of an innocent human being?
Thanks, -Nick
I like the whole idea that you guys are going for but i felt this video was very one sided. I felt as though someone with a stronger opinion on abortion would have presented a better conversation. I felt the lady that was for abortion was more of in the middle.
All their videos are one sided, they don't have anyone good enough to uphold a good counter debate.
@@johndoe-pm1ql I disagree because they usually choose people who either live in the situation for years or they are quite educated on the topic.
You meant someone who was completely heartless and emotionless about anyone's but herself's suffering would have presented it better .... Agreed a criminal will definately present the justification for crime better than normal people
I agree
You can LITERALLY see miss pro choice agreeing (nodding) with EVERYTHING miss pro life says. She didn’t say no to anything. Didn’t say a thing different.
Such a hard topic. I’m a Christian who has had an abortion and I still have mixed feelings about it. I was in an incredibly abusive relationship with an alcoholic who continued to try to get me pregnant as a means of control. He was from an incredibly wealthy family but was the outcast due to his addiction. When I found out I was pregnant I was so terrified. All I could imagine was constant trips back and forth to court fighting for custody or continuing to allow him to abuse not only myself but our future child. I spoke to a number of women who were raising kids in a toxic parental dynamic. The kids of course had every behavioral and learning disability imaginable and the mothers struggled so much. They all said that if they could do it again they wouldn’t have had the baby. I consoled myself by repeating that to God, no one sin is greater than another. I also felt so much shame around what his family would think who had already said, “if I were looking for a free ride I was barking up the wrong tree”. The one positive outcome was getting pregnant was my wake up call to start making better decisions with my life. I found the strength to stop drinking myself and get out of that relationship - I’ve been sober ever since. Having the child might have been a wonderful experience but taking that chance with all of the known horrors and instability I was experiencing, it didn’t seem fair to take that chance with an innocent child’s life.
Do a survey of all foster kids, I can ASSURE you they appreciate having lived. Please don't make the excuse that they were better off killed in the womb when really you didn't want to go through the hardships of that child. I hope you repented and if you did, God forgives you, just please completely recognize that it is sinful to take the life of a baby in the safest place for it to be (the mothers womb). Jeremiah 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.” Stay blessed 🙏🏽
@@esmereldasnickles8056 most of the Foster kids I’ve met have lived some pretty tormented lives filled with chaos and abuse, only to end up addicted to drugs and living on the streets. My heart just breaks for Ma’khia Bryant, the foster child recently killed by the police.
@@DaringDanielletravels She was about to stab someone...Anyway I can guarantee you that more than 50% of foster kids appreciate getting to live. That does not justify the killing of a baby in the womb.
Personally, I won’t be against you if you’re pro-life so long as you’re only pro-life _for yourself._ I mean, you can do whatever you want to your body; I have no say in that, but to tell me what to do with my body is just wrong and I’m going to lose respect for you if you try. That’s why I’m pro-choice. If she chooses to abort, that’s okay. If she chooses to parent, that’s okay. If she chooses adoption, that’s okay, and I have no right to judge anyone for any decision they make about that.
being pro-life for yourself is just being pro-choice tho.
I wish the pro-choice believer spoke more about the facts of bodily autonomy, that’s the key component for pro-choice believers.
i used to be a christian until i realized how forceful they are. Separation of church and state is important. Pro-choice is where i stand.
Being Christian isn’t about your relationship with others but your relationship with God alone. People do not define what Christianity is, Gods love and mercy defines what Christianity is. I respect your decision but I promise you not all Christians are bad and not all are good (debatable whether they are even a Christian). God is Love don’t forget that.
@@jdb33678 What about a relationship with universe creating pixies?
Jesus loves me ❤ I'm fearfully and wonderfully made. Pro-life
Amen! And so are those babies this world so badly wants to kill.
That girl has friends who regret not having an abortion? 🤦🏻♀️ that is so sad. Those poor kids.
Jenna Hyser obviously wtf those little fuckers cost a lot of money tf you think a baby free or something? Gtfo
@your below average viewer Yeah having sex does not equal loving whatever may come from it, you don't love STD's do you?
your below average viewer please stay in school cause clearly your grammar is still inside the womb :/
@your below average viewer Having an abortion is to an extent risky thing and also most often emotionally hard so those are also consequences of your actions. Please don't refer to children as punishmemt for sex and sex should not be used as a scare tactic. By having sex you do not consent to pregnancy, birth and taking care of a child (abled or disabled) for the next 18 years.
Imagine if they know their mama said that.......
The prolife christian didn’t even give real facts, she just went on with her gospel. In reality everyone’s situation is different and the world is harsh. No one should be telling any woman what do to with her body bc at the end of the day it’s not like pro life is there when the baby is born!
Every woman should have a choice, I don't care what the bible says, not everyone is religious. Stop worrying about what other people do with their lives. Thank you, and these comments are making my eyes burn. Being a Christian is not a personality trait.
Thank you! Finally one sane comment this weird Christian knockoff of jubilee was in my recommended and the comments are making me lose faith in humanity, just look at their other videos this channel is also hella homophobic
“it’s a grey area because zygotes don’t have a soul they’re a clump of cells well technically i’m a clump of cells but i don’t know it’s a grey area”
And how would she even know that a Zygote doesn't have a soul. If you going to make that statement then tell me when do you get a soul and do you use to determine that, Or do we all magically get a soul at child birth. Its funny when let the Pro-Choice rationalize why there pro-choice there arguments always falls apart...
Your a clump of cells with a brain and a heartbeat
7:37 “ cells make up tissues which makes organs which makes up us”
Organ systems: 🥲
Biology nerds understand 😆
Believers need to step up and foster and adopt and make it so that all children in the system are taken care of before we dictate to society that abortion should not be a choice.
Ugh. Pro-life here. It makes me so frustrated when people use religion to argue against abortion.. most pro choicers are not believers in religion, talking religion will not convince them. I never even mention I'm Christian when talking with pro choicers
thank you! using religion in any argument is so weak and usually doesn’t translate to others in the same sense.
Im pro choice and I agree with you. Religion definetly won't do anything to change my mind
I'm curious, how do you argument for your pro-life position without using religion and god?
@@rayblob7945 it's very easy! All the facts and logic are on my side. I have done tremendous research on the topic. Just to show an example: most biologists agree that life begins at conception. In a study, 75% of scientists who even claim to be pro-choice maintain the notion that human life begins when egg and sperm meet. It really confuses me when people say science is on their side.. like who told you That? It's almost unanimously not. Lol
This is naive. The primary reason why there is a divide on this issue is because of the shift in faith in Western society. The idea that you can simply "convince" people about abortion with arguments, when everybody already understands the seriousness of killing one's own offspring is naive.
I am a medic and I know lots of medics. The pro-choice ones don't have a single argument that stands for their pro-choice position that can't be refuted. But that isn't the issue. The issue is our beliefs about humanity, God and his authority, whether he created us or we are random etc. You can't just convince people to stop killing their own offspring when they know what they are doing but they want to continue.
Utter naivety.
Roughly 75% of women who have abortions do so because of Social-Economic reasons. We need more Women's Resource centers that provide women with blankets, clothes, baby food, etc. Adoption should not be the only option for expecting mothers other than adoption.
BTW, almost all scientists and research supports the idea that human life begins at conception. There is no arguing that it doesn't, idk why people keep thinking science supports the pro choice movement?
I guess it does when the mother's life is at risk
@@jug2024 I've not met one person in my life who is pro-life that also believes there shouldn't be an exception for when the mother's life is in danger. People always say this and I don't understand why? Nobody disagrees with you?
@@elenawilson9181 yes I understand, I am just saying that in that case science would support it
Because it’s cellular life not equivalent to human life
@@Taygon094 human life is defined by sentience and personhood or more so the value of human life would be a better way of putting it. Up until a certain point I think the fetus does reach a point in which it achieves these characteristics in which that should be the cut off date for abortions to occur. However in early stages of pregnancy the fetus has no consciousness, no feelings, no emotions, or even the desire to live. The cells functions as they are suppose to and it’s basically like an organs at that point hence a cluster of cells. Now later on yes it begins to develop a heartbeat and so fourth but in the period of time in which abortions happen thats not the case. Also it’s not even abt what I say it’s abt what science says. Science classifies it as cellular life. Now you and I may not agree whether it’s murder or not but the issues still remains that banning abortions doesn’t stop them it simply makes them unsafe. I can hope that we can both agree on the fact that more effort towards creating an environment in which women are able to comfortable have a child (health care, financial support for the child, better foster care and adoption systems, ect.)
Stop that bs , every woman should be able to decide whether go through it or not , what you going to do to a women’s who do not want to have a child? Make them ? Chain them in the basement? It’s only gonna make them go somewhere else and perform it in not safe environment
beth actually goes to my church and she is truly an amazing person and she acts exactly the same in person. She is also an amazing mother and she is an amazing should and a strong amazing women. 🥰
I am so grateful that there is a channel out there facilitating these conversations. However, in every single video the dialogue seems to go like this:
1st Person: Here is what I feel
2nd Person: Here is what God says in His Word.
My point is that you are either going to allow God's Word to be the foundation upon which you make your decisions and build your life, or you are going to make "you" the foundation that your life is built upon.
It's hard for me to fathom looking at a living breathing child and thinking "I should have just terminated you."
My Mother tells me " I should be happy she kept me" i can say it was so hurtful as an adult to hear my mom say her life would have been better if she got rid of me
@@kimberlylusby3365 I'm sorry you have to experience that. I truly am. Children are a gift from God. I know that sounds preachy and cliche but it's true. We lost one of our twins last year and it makes me think of all the people who chose to terminate children. My son was just outside the age that most states allow for abortions. He didn't make it but he was definitely a human being. I couldn't look at him and think that if you were a few weeks younger you aren't a person and shouldn't get the right to go on living only because I'm the adult with a voice. I sympathize with women who have to face this decision, even if they choose to go through with it. But looking at my son i can't say that abortion is anything less than legalized killing and child abuse. It's making an unhealthy decision for a child that they can't fight against because they yet have the agency to do so. Not a day goes by that I don't miss him or think about him and wonder why he was chosen to go when so many people willingly allow their child to be killed because they don't want them. You are valuable Kimberly even if your mother cannot articulate that fact to you.
@@kimberlylusby3365 That is awful! You are a blessing. She is just ungrateful.
@Kimberly lusby I'm sorry, Jesus loves you so much...
A quiet dialogue to show that Christians must be kept in their box.
Always nice to see an actual civil discussion from people despite them having different views. No name calling or being nasty towards each other here which makes a nice change to see for me.
"The scientist in me says that a zygote doesn't have a soul"
Sorry what?
Science is always changing and I pray you will also have a change of heart. Check out science in the bible well before science caught on. Quarantine for example. Check it out.
@@zinnia3684 Huh? I'm pro-life.
TBear300 did u watch the video?? I was quoting the pro choice girl.
Courtney J I understood what you were saying. Not sure why they missed it.
Can you please help me understand that argument about a soul? If it has one - what prevents it from getting another body? If God put it there and he is so all knowing - why did he not anticipate that this baby will be aborted? And what happens to the sould after the baby is aborted? If it goes to Heaven is it not really like a free pass?
I wish we could see a conversation between a pro life christian and a pro choice christian.
Yes, especially since the Bible is cited so often on the pro-life side
I think the flaw in discussions like this is that it is a religious point of view versus a non-religious point of view…this generally leads to debating the merits of a religion rather than the topic at hand. I’d like to see two atheists debating or two Christians debating from opposite sides. I think that would lead to more helpful insights for those (like me) who are undecided on the topic. Does anyone else feel this way?
The medical ethics are sound-acceding to the wishes of an adult versus the impulses of a gestating organism. Yes, a human one, but no double standard of law being applied. There’s a clear scientific difference in state and medical difference in manner of death.
It’s so nice to see respectful and trying to see the other view point in a debate.
People say this is one sided but its cause one sides right lol
Trevor Skopczynski haha
When you bring the Bible into the abortion debate you automatically lose because not everyone believes in the Bible. If your opponent doesn't believe in the Bible then how would you argue your pro-life stance to convince them abortion is wrong?
Well not everyone believes a baby is a clump of cells so you automatically lose the argument
For me pro-choice lady's arguments based on religion were weak. This is not the way to convince those who are not devoted Christian. Another notion is that pro-life should concentrate on reducing need for abortion rather than emotional stories of unborn babies. Abortion is an act of desperation for many cases. Taking aside rape or incest where abortion should be an option there are women in need. Maybe she is scared and penniless. Maybe she need psychological and financial help, then daycare and help with finding a job if decide to keep a baby. Forcing someone to keep unwanted baby and hoping that there is a God plan there and love towards kid will solve all issues is naive. There are numerous stories of kids abused and killed by mothers. Prevention, prevention, prevention. Education that sex is not for fun but to procreate, education about consequences of sex like pregnancy and STDs, education about birth control for all who are in puberty. In the ideal world people will have sex only when married and only when ready and eager to have a child but reality is different. History of ONS and marital infidelity is as long as history of human kind just see Greek myths where gods where busy with ONSes. So, prevention and help. I am pro-choice but for me abortion is hard and personally believe need to be created with caution. I was never pregnant, never have abortion, have no sex and I am happy but will never under no circumstances deprive raped women from a chance to clean herself for perpetrator's remains as I am also women and cannot imagine being forced to keep pregnancy. I don't care for unborn babies, fetus has no importance to me.
It threw me off seeing that the Black woman was pro choice and the white woman was pro life, usually the other way around - seems to be a cultural default
A glitch in the matrix. hahaha
No this is actually pretty accurate. You see this alot at the abortion "clinics" which by the way are usually always strategically located in the poorer neighborhoods. Most of the women that come are black. Blacks have been preyed upon by the democrats for years through governmental assistance programs to keep them dependent upon the government in single mother homes and in turn maintaining their Democrat vote and leftist ideology. It's a vicious cycle. Do your own research. Of the 70 million preborn children murdered through abortion since 1973 have been children of color. Which is the way racist plant parenthood founder Margaret Sanger wanted it. She saw blacks and Indians as "parasites" very wicked woman.
Kenny Woo yikes! Do research.
Descendants of slaves are still a lower percentage of you all's country, so when you compare the numbers, we don't abort as much as you
Job 30:30 I agree! We are a sinful nation! I’m not making excuses for my country! I don’t worship the USA I worship Jesus Christ!
The issue with having religious examples is that just becuase you believe that, wethere its life begins at conception, or that everyone deserves a choice, the truth is not everyone's beliefs are the same. So at what point is it acceptable to force your belief into others?
This is why this argument should be made using secular points instead. I’m religious and pro life but I would never connect the two in an argument because there are plenty of pro life scientific and moral observations that don’t involve religion. It’s more of an inclusive discussion that way.
The truth of who God is, when presented in His name (I.e. with His holy and loving attributes) is what wins people to Christ. It is only the unconverted heart that ever justifies the use of force to change other's beliefs.
I love how sincere they both were
Responsibility? Abortion is being responsible? No it's not. It's avoiding it.
No one wants to be responsible after they give birth? Again, that should've been YOUR responsibility for not having contraception. We all know this, but IGNORE IT.
People who think abortion is murder should have to create different safe spaces from sexual assault survivors who do not.
Great conversation, both woman respected each other and shared honestly. Pro life woman is gorgeous , pro choice is beautiful as well .
Ricky Ricardo Amador this is the kind of comment i wanna see🙌🏼
Arian Opøien 🙏🏼
Ricky Ricardo. So if you ever get murdered will you feel better if the woman comes across as sweet and beautiful as she kills you !
@@disproveofthis wtf is your comment?
@@mcfrickenwatcher195The topic is about the right to murder babies in the womb and you don't think it is somehow a perverse statement to comment how beautiful and gorgeous the ladies discussing the topic are!! It just shows how desensitized we have become as people !!
Gave her the GOSPEL AT THE END 🤯😁👏👏👏 HALLELUJAH
Lol right, hallelujah 🙏🏽
Pro choice mean we old enough to make our own choices
Its so nice to see conversation like this! Very fruitful
this is like arguing with a religious wall
Accurate
The video is sponsored by a religious organization.
i’m in the same boat as the pro choice girl. i keep asking God if i should be pro life and pro choice but so much of it is unclear. i’m realizing the only reason i was pro choice is because my friends were. im starting to feel disgusted hearing pro choice arguements and certain things that they say where i didn’t before. i’m pro life now and i hope God gives me more clarity bc i am so lost
Same!
None of us are in charge of our own bodies. God gave us life and our lives belong to him. He created us in the womb. He knew us before. The clump of cells that start in the womb that eventually look like a baby is just a “vessel” that holds our soul and takes on a spirit from God. When you abort that baby in the womb you are aborting Gods creation not our own.