If you enjoy this video, give it a like and maybe also leave a comment to assist us with the algorithm! Fix Notes: -At 8:00, disregard "Demo 1" as my source seemed to have called this "real" footage but wasn't that actually.
Only gets worse with their next game... but yeah they basically were in a position having to prove themselves without Japanese staff and that very Japanese staff member just looking down on them must suck
@@TheObsessiveGamer I'm sure there was a "spoiled american" bias that the U.S. team had to shake off, and with the internal difficulties the team was having amongst its staff... disproving that bias was too difficult. :(
In retrospect, I wish they would have done a 2D Sonic game like Knuckles' Chaotix or the later Sonic Mania. It wouldn't have been the next-gen experience they wanted, but at least it would have been a flagship title they could have put out on the 32X considering they never even finished the development hellscape of Sonic X-treme for the Saturn.
I loved Chaotix as my favorite game of the brand of whole times... This game was so colourful and so various in the level design never reached by the serie in any of other chapters❤
Sonic X-treme has always been one of the most interesting canceled games to me and I’m surprised I’ve never seen that first Sonic Mars demo footage despite seeing the rest of them before. Loved this video, hoping for more Sonic soon! 😁
Glad you enjoyed it! And yeah Sonic X-treme truly is one of the most interesting ones...which is why that is planned as the next Sonic video to follow up on this.
@@HYDRAdude honestly I was thinking this... ironically this is what Sonic kinda became too for a bit there with games like Sonic and the Secret Ring with the camera just stuck behind (but on rails of course)
No that is actual gameplay which you know is the real thing due to the "Senntient" logo as that is gameplay presented to us directly by Chris Seen via his website. Project 32X just remade that for their own game too of course
@@TheObsessiveGamer See what the Channel that posted this is about, they post a Lot of these creepypasta like beta videos of games and he stole a gameplay from my fangame and put the Sentient logo above the video, you can notice that It isn't official because of the HUD, the demo 3 video shows How the HUD really is, the HUD on the """demo 1""" is Just a poor recreation that I made like that because of the time schedule for the SAGE 2023
@@retrodeveloper9156 oooh I see what's going on now. The thing that sucks is that the source I was using was even using this here. Blah. Thanks for informing me! Just added a note to the pinned comments for the Fix notes on it.
I don't consider Yuji Naka a god or anything but I do agree the game looked ass. Would have been Sega's bubsy 3D. Sonic Adventure felt more right and it needed that extra power. It's a game you can enjoy somewhat even today especially the less buggy Dreamcast release. Meanwhile do you think anyone would've remembered this game if it came out? On the 32X or Saturn? Probably not. Work ethics on Sega of America back then looked rough tho I suppose Sega of Japan didn't help with their million add-ons and consoles releasing every 2 years. It wasn't surprising at all when Sega went third party. I really wanted a Dreamcast when I was 7 but it disappeared quickly once the PS2 and Game Cube came out which it what I ended up getting instead once we had money for it. A bit sad but that's how it goes.
Yuji Naka (and Ohshima by extention) were the ones who understood Sonic best and Naka knew off the bat that this looked bad Granted I can't blame STI so much as they had to deal with underpowered hardware while trying to still appear relavent without the Japanese staff. But yeah something like Sonic just couldn't be done properly in 3D until it got proper 128 bit power behind it. Should have stuck more to 2.5D Sonic in that era.
@@MacUser2-il2cx Realistically it's not even the fact that it would look bad imo but more I think the problem that the 32X would have a very tough time rendering big levels for Sonic.
@@MacUser2-il2cx Virtua Racing and Star Fox came out 2 or 3 years before this would have presumably been released so looking basic was less of an issue for those (even then, they both needed special chips, which Sonic Mars presumably wouldn't have needed).
This idea of a video game set inside of a video game is an odd choice. Maybe it's a built-in excuse if the game sucks. It's like, "We made this suck on purpose because Dr. Robotnik wanted to torture Sonic." I think Superman 64 did the same thing.
I kinda presumed this was so they could avoid technical limitations and thus if a level looks broken up or the area makes no sense they be like "oh that's cause it's inside a computer"
The biggest flaw was the game was originally was planned for the 32X, which failed in the market as AddOn Technology was released so late in the Genesis life that the system was Dead On Arrival as soon as gamers knew of the SEGA Saturn. They should have just focused on the Saturn in the first place. Another reason why the SEGA 32X caused far more problems for the American Team and caused SEGA of America far more damage than they had expected. Also Donkey Kong Country being a game released in late 1994, can't be overstated enough how much of that game's success was the death-nail for SEGA and their Genesis at the time.
I remember reading about this story years ago, I also remember my disappointment there weren't many new Sonic games on the 32X (Knuckles Chaotix sorta counts) and the Saturn (Sonic R's nice but not a console-seller, and the others were rereleases of older games)... But honestly, maybe it was best "Sonic Mars" and "Sonic X-Treme" both got cancelled, considering they were treading dangerously close to Bubsy 3D territory in terms of graphics and primitive gameplay mechanics, especially after Mario 64 blew everything else out of the water at the time. Would've been nice to see SatAM getting official representation in the games outside of Sonic Spinball, but I suppose it was not to be :/
One of the great questions of gaming is whether Saturn (or PS1 or N64 for that matter) could handle a full-3d Sonic action-adventure platformer game that plays how you'd expect a Sonic game to play. Even a homebrew project created today would change the discussion of why a 3d Sonic adventure never materialized during 5th gen
Personally i don't think Sonic can ever work in 3d. Even Mario 64, lauded as it was, was a janky mess. Because hopping around in 3d on platforms is rough. Even Sunshine wasn't perfect, had some frustration, and relied on a hover mechanic to even things out. And it wasn't til Odyssey that we had another proper free-roaming 3d game that wasn't just running along a linear path Sonic's high-speed platforming was already slippery enough in the 2D games, bordering on frustrating if you were a kid. Turning that 3d? it was never gonna work.. which is why barely any games ever did it, Sonic 3D games stuck to linear paths for the most part (with a ton of on-rails parts, often literally), and their few forays into free-roam were so awkward that even that most recent one looks like a joke. Though at least it seems to finally handle okay. But then they weren't able to put anything in it for you to care about, just a series of objects to run into and have scripted interactions with. The homing attack is too contextual to be a proper crutch for 3d sonic movement. They really should have stuck to 2D, made it better and better, faster, more effects, more crazy complexities, and saved the 3D stuff for special stages.
Crazy that developers damaged their health (the famous Sonic Xtreme stories) to shove a square peg in a round hole because the media and industry at the time forced so much importance on turning everything into 3d
@@gc3k It's also funny everyone was fellating Donkey Kong Country for its AMAZING graphics, and snubbing far more creative and aesthetic ones like Yoshi's Island. Gross-ass balloony-ass digitized-CG.. i mean I don't hate it, but they could have done a lot better.
It's a shame we didn't have a new Sonic for the Saturn, when they could have gone for something different instead of imitating everyone else. I think the best thing could have been to port the Sonic CD engine to the new console, then add elements from Sonic 2, 3 and Knuckles. With that they could have released a true remake of the Genesis games and had time to release something new.
3:56, XD I'm sorry you felt that way. The 90's was something else. I wouldn't have it any other way. 4:51, anyone up for Acme Loo's AcmeBowl tournament?! We're all game! 9:13, good luck? Good LUCK? GOOD LUCK?!!! Oh...THANK YOU, Naka-san! Thanks for your...AMAZING WORDS OF ENCOURAGEMENT....NOT. Is there ever a reason why SEGA's not making consoles anymore this day? 11:22, that looks pretty cool. 12:06, oh dear man...this is heart-wrenching. This is what you made, Yuji Naka.
Hehehehe. Boobowski. Good video, dude. Where are you from? Your way of emphasizing words sounds exactly like this hilarious weird old flash cartoon "Almost Bendy" 11:48 did they really call her a stallion? lol did they not know.. that's a boy..
thanks to the progress of tomb raider on 32x (and even Doom Resurrection), the possibility of a sonic Mars in its original concept (with those mentioned zones and the SatAM crew) is certainly looking to be a lot more possible. you see folks reworking things like Zelda64 all the time and other interesting bits of programming, someone is bound to pick up this task and deliver the Sonic Mars we never got.
I know it was just in prototype phase but that Sonic Mars looked like it would have just been an ugly mess. I remember being excited about Sonic Xtream back in the day and buying Sonic 3D Blast for the saturn after it was released. Boy talk about a let down. I hated it so much I took it back to the store. Biggest complaint is it had no save support. By the Saturn era every game should have some sort of save support.
It's a shame that Sega has such a divided history. I'm sure the situation isn't any prettier with Nintendo and their American branches. But I'd like to imagine that if the people on both sides got their head's out of their butts, they'd truly rival Nintendo to this day. Now it just seems like Sega is constantly trying to play catch-up. And these types of interactions are likely to blame. But yeah, I also don't think it would have been a great idea to release those early builds. Nevermind trying to compare it to DKC, it should at least try and rival its biggest competitor Mario. Both in controls and visuals. I can't really fathom why anyone would want to play a 3D Sonic game that has artificial linearity baked into how Sonic moves. He should be just as free to move around as Mario. And regrettably, I do believe they were working within very strict confines. But they really needed to at least try and compete with the N64 and its ability to produce environments like Banjo, Mario, etc. And considering how great Sonic feels to control in Sonic Adventure, it's really hard to look back and see just where all that was coming from. It feels super jarring. But I am grateful that we got Sonic Adventure in spite of everything Sonic's first 3D outing had to go through. A whole 2 years behind Mario, but definitely a lot more to show for with its style. People like to contend that the controls are iffy, but I would disagree. Its my favorite Sonic to control in the series, and I wish they'd refine it for more titles. It is kind of cool in a weird way though how these are forms of lost media. Not that I would want to play these things in the slightest. But they are really great showcases of early ideas and concepts around the 90s, and are like a little slice of that era.
Well Nintendo was more or less unified in what they did and weren't just trying to 1up each other like Sega constantly. The biggest hurdle on a technological level for Sonic is...his speed. Because of that his levels need to be very large compared to anything Mario had otherwise he will finish a level very quickly which was actually what took them a while to figure out how to make Sonic Adventure as every level they made kept ending in like 10 seconds and took the Dreamcasts power to make proper big levels in the end. Realistically I feel they should have stuck to a 2.5D Sonic at least for the Saturn and 32X systems.
"I can't really fatom why anyone would want to play a 3D Sonic game that has artificial linearity baked into how Sonic moves." And yet, the Sonic Adventure games (and basically all 3D Sonic after that to some degree) happened. I never played the first one (though I did grab that Sonic Humble Bundle a bunch of years ago so I porbbly should check it out sometime) but I did play a fair bit of SA2:B on the GameCube back in the day and it definitely felt like a glorified linear rollercoaster most of the time, the only non-linearity I remember consisting of hopping between grind rails in space in later levels (though I never beat the Dark story because of that one damn level where Rouge had to find 3 emeralds in 5 minutes in a level where everywhere basically looked the same as everywhere else and my crappy sense of direction wasn't helping).
@@Redhotsmasher that's because Adventure 2 streamlined their respective levels to focus primarily on Speed, Treasure Hunting, and Shooting, the first one had to fit multiple characters so it was more open compared to it, course, it's playthrough two Stories to reach the final one alternating between three types of gameplay to six with each one focusing on only one
Pin this to be a reminder that SEGA died as a hardware developer because it thought it was a good idea to vomit hardware like there was no tomorrow. The CD, the 32x, Saturn, Dreamcast. Too much, too early. Well in the case of the Dreamcast, too LATE. GC and PS2 were on their way and Dreamcast was gonna die horribly. And that's what happened. There's also the fact they starting fighting with themselves... Sega of America and Sega of Japan were basically the same company, but the two departments didn't want to cooperate. Only Sega of Europe was left the most reasonable one, making games and localizing them... It was their only normal department while the others were like 2 dumb little children.
Never heard of this. I'm sure fans are already working on making this into a real game. How are there still more hidden Sonic games being dug up in 2024?
In hindsight, dropping the SatAM setting is a good thing clause that might mean that future sonic games would be forced to follow that continuity, meaning we might get shirtless Robotnik in Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games
that and the simple fact that Sonic's Japanese canon was, while it didn't hit you over the head with it, a far richer world and better story.. .... _in the 2D games._
It's hilarious how they hatted the ideia of linear level but that was the right choice Sonic team made exactly that with sonic adventure Just show how they didn't know what they were doing
I mean I get why they were doing that since that was the trend. I mean even Mario 64 did that. But yeah with Sonic you need it to be linear considering his speed.
That 3D Sonic game based on the Doom engine looks cool and similar to the 3D like special zone in the prior sonic games. A missed opportunity and could have been called Sonic Doom, capitalizing on the doom game popularity and sonic boom, Guile's atttack in street fighter, and they could have given sonic ability to throw rings as a power just like Guile but that would bounce off of surfaces and could be caught and recovered, plus as the doom word suggests it wouod br about saving the world from Dr Robotbik cuz isnt it always about that?
It exists, actually. It's called Sonic Robo Blast 2 (SRB2), it is a well regarded sonic fan game in the community, and it is free! (You have to Google it, just search "SRB2")
Thinking About Sonic Mars Has it been release In the mid 90s The fact that They were Trying to Use corporate elements from the Sonic Satam Really Tell Me How Sega of America Were trying to push The Freedom fighter To be Canon in the mainline Games Which to Me is interesting Because If this game was to take place In the mainline canon The sonic series would have been completely different Series Then it is Today For One Things The Game Would Have been first Ever 3D sonic games Not Only That But I Also Wonder How The Satam elements And Characters Would have Affected Future Sonic Games And the fact That Mobius was Also In the Plot Also Tell me That Sega of America was Trying to Make Sonic Home Planets Mobius Canon But Stil It really is Weird How They Gonna To make The Sonic Game Based On the Sonic Cartoon Can you imagine If Nintendo Made the Mario And Zelda Games Based On the Old DIC Cartoon That would have been pretty Weird But interesting
I can imagine that Yuji Naka would have just said that was in a seperate timeline or something and just continued with whatever her wanted lol Or could have become like the Sonic Boom situation where it was made as a game that had a tie in series but not canon to the main story
3:58 WAIT! SALLY AND BUNNIE WERE PLAYABLE!?!?!? NOOOOOOOOO!!!!! I wish this came out and had a good development cycle. 5:20 That’s disappointing, but not shocking. They would’ve had to balance between 6 characters. But still, I would’ve loved to play as Sally and Bunnie. Heck, just having them in a game makes me sooooooooooo happy.
As much as I like the 32X for what there is of offer on it, it should have never happened. I doubt a proper mainline Sonic game in 3D, if they at all could have pulled it off well, would have moved the needle on the add-on's sales all that much. People were turned off a bit by the Sega CD and then were turned off completely when the 32X launched and the Saturn very quickly after, that's too much hardware to throw at people in such a short window and for so much money.
Interesting story to bring Sonic in 3d. It seems like the project was meaningless, working on a 32x, not a wise choice. Should take the project to the Saturn, more 3d capable. It's funny, I used to play Deluxe Paint 4 on Amiga 500. Do a lot of animation and sprites design. I didn't have internet back then, I made my own 2d NES Metroid animation. I always wanted to make my own games during that time. But I was young in my early minor. When Zelda 64 was being developed, I didn't get any Nintendo Power magazine or VHS videos, so I used Deluxe Paint 4 to make 2d animation to look 3d model of Link swing his sword and running animation
I think they'd still happen as i'm sure Yuji Naka would have wanted to 1up the Americans. Might have intead been forced to work with STI for Sonic Adventure though is my guess. A shame really that couldn't be the case as I think the best stuff came out when the two worked together.
If Sega had me around, they'd have cancelled Bug!, Clockwork Knight, and other games in favor of making a Sonic game at launch. Anyone who thinks they're bigger than the company and project can either shut up and check their ego at the door or I'll show them the door and wish them well. That includes Yuji Naka. There would be no infighting under my watch. Also, I'd have cancelled the 32X outright and gone right to the Saturn. All games for the 32X would either be moved to the Saturn or cancelled. And I'd have had the techies streamline the Saturn so it's easier to program games for. Sega shot themselves in the foot by making the Saturn so complicated. Backward compatibility with the Genesis and Sega CD libraries was also a must.
>Clockwork Knight Now you listen here, you do not cancel a peak underrated platformer like that :P Otherwise I don't think that would have helped much as those are all made be different branches of Sega. STI put everything they had into it. The problem was how little Sega execs were willing to assist them along the way after losing a bulk of their staff.
![ไปอยู่ไสมา - ช๊อปเปอร์ โตเกียวมิวสิค [ OFFICIAL MUSIC VIDEO ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/sWuVNbRTJbc/mqdefault.jpg)
If you enjoy this video, give it a like and maybe also leave a comment to assist us with the algorithm!
Fix Notes:
-At 8:00, disregard "Demo 1" as my source seemed to have called this "real" footage but wasn't that actually.
I remember when you released the Mother 4 video you were in our discord server. Crazy to see how your channel is growing. To a million!
Man... that meeting with Yuji Naka sounded heartbreaking... I really feel for the Sonic Mars dev.
Only gets worse with their next game... but yeah they basically were in a position having to prove themselves without Japanese staff and that very Japanese staff member just looking down on them must suck
@@TheObsessiveGamer I'm sure there was a "spoiled american" bias that the U.S. team had to shake off, and with the internal difficulties the team was having amongst its staff... disproving that bias was too difficult. :(
@@gonegogone Yeah which is why I think them working together was best as it did create a better balance that way
Yuji Naka has screwed over sonic devs SEVERAL times. Mars, 06, xtreme, etc. are all results of Yuji Naka just... being Yuji Naka
@@TheRealBobbleHat At different degrees too with Xtreme the worst, Mars only slightly, and 06 somewhere inbetween.
In retrospect, I wish they would have done a 2D Sonic game like Knuckles' Chaotix or the later Sonic Mania. It wouldn't have been the next-gen experience they wanted, but at least it would have been a flagship title they could have put out on the 32X considering they never even finished the development hellscape of Sonic X-treme for the Saturn.
Agreed. At least a compromise of a Sonic 2.5D game if they were so hellbent on using polygons. A real shame.
Tempo was on both 32X and Saturn and still looks great to this day.
Having a powerful 3D system doesn't mean you have to make a 3D game. Just look at Symphony of the Night
3D was THE hot new thing at the time, people were clamoring for it. If you didn't have 3D, you were left behind.
I loved Chaotix as my favorite game of the brand of whole times... This game was so colourful and so various in the level design never reached by the serie in any of other chapters❤
Sonic X-treme has always been one of the most interesting canceled games to me and I’m surprised I’ve never seen that first Sonic Mars demo footage despite seeing the rest of them before. Loved this video, hoping for more Sonic soon! 😁
Glad you enjoyed it! And yeah Sonic X-treme truly is one of the most interesting ones...which is why that is planned as the next Sonic video to follow up on this.
That 3D Sonic game utilizing the Doom engine sounds like it could have been a real winner, a shame they didn't follow through on that idea.
@@HYDRAdude honestly I was thinking this... ironically this is what Sonic kinda became too for a bit there with games like Sonic and the Secret Ring with the camera just stuck behind (but on rails of course)
And then the Sonic Robo Blast 2 devs got that idea and made SRB2
@@Sonictheoofhog4 I really should play SRB2. Looks hella fun
@@TheObsessiveGamer
Weren't you playing version 2.1 in the video?
@@Sonictheoofhog4 just gameplay of someone else which is credited in the description actually
I haven't seen any of this concept art, this is fascinating.
Indeed! they made a very nice design document to all this so it carried alot for us to see.
It’s funny how Sonic was made to appeal to Americans but Sega of Japan didn’t want Americans making a Sonic game
Weird, but a few minutes into this video I heard "princess boobowski" and it makes sense
I will never get over the name "Tiara Boobowski" for a Sonic game. Even if it wasn't intentional, they HAD to know what was wrong there lol
Uhh, the "Demo 1" you have shown is an edited version of gameplay from an old demo of my fangame, Project 32X - Sonic Mars
No that is actual gameplay which you know is the real thing due to the "Senntient" logo as that is gameplay presented to us directly by Chris Seen via his website. Project 32X just remade that for their own game too of course
@@TheObsessiveGamer See what the Channel that posted this is about, they post a Lot of these creepypasta like beta videos of games and he stole a gameplay from my fangame and put the Sentient logo above the video, you can notice that It isn't official because of the HUD, the demo 3 video shows How the HUD really is, the HUD on the """demo 1""" is Just a poor recreation that I made like that because of the time schedule for the SAGE 2023
@@retrodeveloper9156 oooh I see what's going on now. The thing that sucks is that the source I was using was even using this here. Blah. Thanks for informing me! Just added a note to the pinned comments for the Fix notes on it.
@@TheObsessiveGamer No problem!
is there any real footage of demo 1
I don't consider Yuji Naka a god or anything but I do agree the game looked ass. Would have been Sega's bubsy 3D. Sonic Adventure felt more right and it needed that extra power. It's a game you can enjoy somewhat even today especially the less buggy Dreamcast release. Meanwhile do you think anyone would've remembered this game if it came out? On the 32X or Saturn? Probably not. Work ethics on Sega of America back then looked rough tho I suppose Sega of Japan didn't help with their million add-ons and consoles releasing every 2 years. It wasn't surprising at all when Sega went third party. I really wanted a Dreamcast when I was 7 but it disappeared quickly once the PS2 and Game Cube came out which it what I ended up getting instead once we had money for it. A bit sad but that's how it goes.
Yuji Naka (and Ohshima by extention) were the ones who understood Sonic best and Naka knew off the bat that this looked bad
Granted I can't blame STI so much as they had to deal with underpowered hardware while trying to still appear relavent without the Japanese staff. But yeah something like Sonic just couldn't be done properly in 3D until it got proper 128 bit power behind it. Should have stuck more to 2.5D Sonic in that era.
Yes it really had a strong Bubsy 3D wibe. I don't think anything good would have come out of the project.
people were willing to accept Virtua Racing and Star Fox as 3D, so Sonic Mars was fine in terms of early 3D graphics on a home console.
@@MacUser2-il2cx Realistically it's not even the fact that it would look bad imo but more I think the problem that the 32X would have a very tough time rendering big levels for Sonic.
@@MacUser2-il2cx Virtua Racing and Star Fox came out 2 or 3 years before this would have presumably been released so looking basic was less of an issue for those (even then, they both needed special chips, which Sonic Mars presumably wouldn't have needed).
This idea of a video game set inside of a video game is an odd choice. Maybe it's a built-in excuse if the game sucks. It's like, "We made this suck on purpose because Dr. Robotnik wanted to torture Sonic." I think Superman 64 did the same thing.
I kinda presumed this was so they could avoid technical limitations and thus if a level looks broken up or the area makes no sense they be like "oh that's cause it's inside a computer"
The game sucks for the story
The fact that no fan projects have done a Mardi Gras level greatly disappoints me.
Damn I would have LOVED a Mardi Gras themed level of Sonic. Like casino night except with more debauchery and seafood
The biggest flaw was the game was originally was planned for the 32X, which failed in the market as AddOn Technology was released so late in the Genesis life that the system was Dead On Arrival as soon as gamers knew of the SEGA Saturn.
They should have just focused on the Saturn in the first place.
Another reason why the SEGA 32X caused far more problems for the American Team and caused SEGA of America far more damage than they had expected.
Also Donkey Kong Country being a game released in late 1994, can't be overstated enough how much of that game's success was the death-nail for SEGA and their Genesis at the time.
Thanks for using SRB2 as an example haha!
ooh the one behind it. Haha! Amazing job!!
There are so many ideas that would later go on to be used in modern Sonic games , the major one being the cyber space with Frontiers. Great video !!
I remember reading about this story years ago, I also remember my disappointment there weren't many new Sonic games on the 32X (Knuckles Chaotix sorta counts) and the Saturn (Sonic R's nice but not a console-seller, and the others were rereleases of older games)... But honestly, maybe it was best "Sonic Mars" and "Sonic X-Treme" both got cancelled, considering they were treading dangerously close to Bubsy 3D territory in terms of graphics and primitive gameplay mechanics, especially after Mario 64 blew everything else out of the water at the time.
Would've been nice to see SatAM getting official representation in the games outside of Sonic Spinball, but I suppose it was not to be :/
This really WAS a rough transition into 3D! Great Video btw
This was nuts to hear how many levels were being considered
3:13 Is that sarcasm? "That worked out SO flawlessly "
Sega never fails to run itself into the ground. Everywhere in seemingly every team
I knew about Sonic Xtreme, but I had no idea that there was a Sonic Mars project before.
One of the great questions of gaming is whether Saturn (or PS1 or N64 for that matter) could handle a full-3d Sonic action-adventure platformer game that plays how you'd expect a Sonic game to play. Even a homebrew project created today would change the discussion of why a 3d Sonic adventure never materialized during 5th gen
Personally i don't think Sonic can ever work in 3d. Even Mario 64, lauded as it was, was a janky mess. Because hopping around in 3d on platforms is rough. Even Sunshine wasn't perfect, had some frustration, and relied on a hover mechanic to even things out. And it wasn't til Odyssey that we had another proper free-roaming 3d game that wasn't just running along a linear path
Sonic's high-speed platforming was already slippery enough in the 2D games, bordering on frustrating if you were a kid. Turning that 3d? it was never gonna work.. which is why barely any games ever did it, Sonic 3D games stuck to linear paths for the most part (with a ton of on-rails parts, often literally), and their few forays into free-roam were so awkward that even that most recent one looks like a joke. Though at least it seems to finally handle okay. But then they weren't able to put anything in it for you to care about, just a series of objects to run into and have scripted interactions with. The homing attack is too contextual to be a proper crutch for 3d sonic movement.
They really should have stuck to 2D, made it better and better, faster, more effects, more crazy complexities, and saved the 3D stuff for special stages.
Crazy that developers damaged their health (the famous Sonic Xtreme stories) to shove a square peg in a round hole because the media and industry at the time forced so much importance on turning everything into 3d
@@gc3k It's also funny everyone was fellating Donkey Kong Country for its AMAZING graphics, and snubbing far more creative and aesthetic ones like Yoshi's Island.
Gross-ass balloony-ass digitized-CG.. i mean I don't hate it, but they could have done a lot better.
@@KairuHakubisonic adventure worked really well in 3D and Sonic unleashed and generations did too so I think that comment is stupid
@@MustacheDLuffy funny, I was just thinking the same thing about yours.
Yuji Naka is my favorite power hungry self centered smegeater at SEGA. What about you guys?
I still hope we get the fan recreation we Sonic fans all deserve one day when/if beta elements ever surface and are dumped...
I fkn love Sonic Spinball.
7:01 "This game just wouldn't cut it for the team"
Shame when you know that sonic robo blast 2 (the game shown) is one of the best fangame ever made
Dean lester looks like with egon from ghostbusters
It's a shame we didn't have a new Sonic for the Saturn, when they could have gone for something different instead of imitating everyone else. I think the best thing could have been to port the Sonic CD engine to the new console, then add elements from Sonic 2, 3 and Knuckles. With that they could have released a true remake of the Genesis games and had time to release something new.
i always thought his name is pronounced Mark Seeerny not Keerny
Shadow world Shadow cracks smile*
Levels sound really cool that moment
Of man i hope that would repurposed in a new game
"It is an fan recreation"
@@JomasterTheSecond whoops
3:56, XD I'm sorry you felt that way. The 90's was something else.
I wouldn't have it any other way.
4:51, anyone up for Acme Loo's AcmeBowl tournament?! We're all game!
9:13, good luck? Good LUCK? GOOD LUCK?!!! Oh...THANK YOU, Naka-san! Thanks for your...AMAZING WORDS OF ENCOURAGEMENT....NOT.
Is there ever a reason why SEGA's not making consoles anymore this day?
11:22, that looks pretty cool.
12:06, oh dear man...this is heart-wrenching. This is what you made, Yuji Naka.
Hehehehe. Boobowski.
Good video, dude. Where are you from? Your way of emphasizing words sounds exactly like this hilarious weird old flash cartoon "Almost Bendy"
11:48 did they really call her a stallion? lol did they not know.. that's a boy..
I love watching your video whenever a new one comes out I'm gonna watch it
I'm interested in how the development of Knuckles' Chaotix fits into this story, since it plays like a traditional Sonic game.
Ah Sonic Mars. The story of a game that never was, but yet keeps on giving lol 😅
thanks to the progress of tomb raider on 32x (and even Doom Resurrection), the possibility of a sonic Mars in its original concept (with those mentioned zones and the SatAM crew) is certainly looking to be a lot more possible. you see folks reworking things like Zelda64 all the time and other interesting bits of programming, someone is bound to pick up this task and deliver the Sonic Mars we never got.
Aun estoy esperando mi Sonic en 3D para Sega Saturn
Quiero decir, Sonic R existe con su increíble banda sonora :P
@@TheObsessiveGamer tengo Sonic R desde su lanzamiento y no es el tipico sonic. Ni en la banda sonora 😂
Sonic Mars and then what Knuckles M and M's?
Your shots of sega of americas building look suspiciously like the sega Europe building in London!
This overall was a very complicated topic. Thank you for trying to cover this your best and really isn't covered as much as you and others cover it
@@schwiftynintendonerd thanks! Best part is that this is not over yet as Sonic Xtreme video is the conclusion of the story
I know it was just in prototype phase but that Sonic Mars looked like it would have just been an ugly mess. I remember being excited about Sonic Xtream back in the day and buying Sonic 3D Blast for the saturn after it was released. Boy talk about a let down. I hated it so much I took it back to the store. Biggest complaint is it had no save support. By the Saturn era every game should have some sort of save support.
Sonic is only a good idea as a side scroller.
It's a shame that Sega has such a divided history. I'm sure the situation isn't any prettier with Nintendo and their American branches. But I'd like to imagine that if the people on both sides got their head's out of their butts, they'd truly rival Nintendo to this day.
Now it just seems like Sega is constantly trying to play catch-up. And these types of interactions are likely to blame.
But yeah, I also don't think it would have been a great idea to release those early builds. Nevermind trying to compare it to DKC, it should at least try and rival its biggest competitor Mario. Both in controls and visuals. I can't really fathom why anyone would want to play a 3D Sonic game that has artificial linearity baked into how Sonic moves. He should be just as free to move around as Mario. And regrettably, I do believe they were working within very strict confines. But they really needed to at least try and compete with the N64 and its ability to produce environments like Banjo, Mario, etc.
And considering how great Sonic feels to control in Sonic Adventure, it's really hard to look back and see just where all that was coming from. It feels super jarring. But I am grateful that we got Sonic Adventure in spite of everything Sonic's first 3D outing had to go through. A whole 2 years behind Mario, but definitely a lot more to show for with its style. People like to contend that the controls are iffy, but I would disagree. Its my favorite Sonic to control in the series, and I wish they'd refine it for more titles.
It is kind of cool in a weird way though how these are forms of lost media. Not that I would want to play these things in the slightest. But they are really great showcases of early ideas and concepts around the 90s, and are like a little slice of that era.
Well Nintendo was more or less unified in what they did and weren't just trying to 1up each other like Sega constantly.
The biggest hurdle on a technological level for Sonic is...his speed. Because of that his levels need to be very large compared to anything Mario had otherwise he will finish a level very quickly which was actually what took them a while to figure out how to make Sonic Adventure as every level they made kept ending in like 10 seconds and took the Dreamcasts power to make proper big levels in the end. Realistically I feel they should have stuck to a 2.5D Sonic at least for the Saturn and 32X systems.
"I can't really fatom why anyone would want to play a 3D Sonic game that has artificial linearity baked into how Sonic moves." And yet, the Sonic Adventure games (and basically all 3D Sonic after that to some degree) happened. I never played the first one (though I did grab that Sonic Humble Bundle a bunch of years ago so I porbbly should check it out sometime) but I did play a fair bit of SA2:B on the GameCube back in the day and it definitely felt like a glorified linear rollercoaster most of the time, the only non-linearity I remember consisting of hopping between grind rails in space in later levels (though I never beat the Dark story because of that one damn level where Rouge had to find 3 emeralds in 5 minutes in a level where everywhere basically looked the same as everywhere else and my crappy sense of direction wasn't helping).
@@Redhotsmasher that's because Adventure 2 streamlined their respective levels to focus primarily on Speed, Treasure Hunting, and Shooting, the first one had to fit multiple characters so it was more open compared to it, course, it's playthrough two Stories to reach the final one alternating between three types of gameplay to six with each one focusing on only one
Bro really sad: I ain't talking about Sonic Xtreme it's too much of a long story
@@ArtistsKhi that's literally my next Sonic video lol never said I'm not. Sonic Xtreme just deserves its own video
Pin this to be a reminder that SEGA died as a hardware developer because it thought it was a good idea to vomit hardware like there was no tomorrow. The CD, the 32x, Saturn, Dreamcast. Too much, too early. Well in the case of the Dreamcast, too LATE. GC and PS2 were on their way and Dreamcast was gonna die horribly. And that's what happened.
There's also the fact they starting fighting with themselves... Sega of America and Sega of Japan were basically the same company, but the two departments didn't want to cooperate. Only Sega of Europe was left the most reasonable one, making games and localizing them... It was their only normal department while the others were like 2 dumb little children.
Never heard of this. I'm sure fans are already working on making this into a real game. How are there still more hidden Sonic games being dug up in 2024?
Sonic mars turned into sonic extreme
@@jasmirryan3101 kinda but that's my next Sonic video's topic actually:)
4:44
Doesn’t that weird creature at the bottom look like Redman from One Night At Flumpty’s to anyone else?
In hindsight, dropping the SatAM setting is a good thing clause that might mean that future sonic games would be forced to follow that continuity, meaning we might get shirtless Robotnik in Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games
that and the simple fact that Sonic's Japanese canon was, while it didn't hit you over the head with it, a far richer world and better story.. .... _in the 2D games._
Hahahaaa what makes you think that? SoJ had no idea that Satam existed, and when they learned about it, they seemed really miffed about it.
@@KOTEBANAROT Can't blame them. SatAM was mid Captain Planet wannabe with no sense of direction.
Man, Sonic can never catch a break... lol
Yeahhhh at least things looked up again with Sonic Adventure
all this was the beginning of sonic downfall of your populariy
Left reformed the sonic team? This is why i so at sonic and knuckles. Lol
It's hilarious how they hatted the ideia of linear level but that was the right choice
Sonic team made exactly that with sonic adventure
Just show how they didn't know what they were doing
I mean I get why they were doing that since that was the trend. I mean even Mario 64 did that. But yeah with Sonic you need it to be linear considering his speed.
Sonic mars aka sonic extreme(the final name based on all the merch that actualy got released back then!)
That 3D Sonic game based on the Doom engine looks cool and similar to the 3D like special zone in the prior sonic games. A missed opportunity and could have been called Sonic Doom, capitalizing on the doom game popularity and sonic boom, Guile's atttack in street fighter, and they could have given sonic ability to throw rings as a power just like Guile but that would bounce off of surfaces and could be caught and recovered, plus as the doom word suggests it wouod br about saving the world from Dr Robotbik cuz isnt it always about that?
It exists, actually. It's called Sonic Robo Blast 2 (SRB2), it is a well regarded sonic fan game in the community, and it is free!
(You have to Google it, just search "SRB2")
Thinking About Sonic Mars Has it been release In the mid 90s The fact that They were Trying to Use corporate elements from the Sonic Satam Really Tell Me How Sega of America Were trying to push The Freedom fighter To be Canon in the mainline Games Which to Me is interesting Because If this game was to take place In the mainline canon The sonic series would have been completely different Series Then it is Today For One Things The Game Would Have been first Ever 3D sonic games Not Only That But I Also Wonder How The Satam elements And Characters Would have Affected Future Sonic Games And the fact That Mobius was Also In the Plot Also Tell me That Sega of America was Trying to Make Sonic Home Planets Mobius Canon But Stil It really is Weird How They Gonna To make The Sonic Game Based On the Sonic Cartoon Can you imagine If Nintendo Made the Mario And Zelda Games Based On the Old DIC Cartoon That would have been pretty Weird But interesting
I can imagine that Yuji Naka would have just said that was in a seperate timeline or something and just continued with whatever her wanted lol Or could have become like the Sonic Boom situation where it was made as a game that had a tie in series but not canon to the main story
times PS4/5 "dreams" Do you have ideas for your games?
3:58
WAIT! SALLY AND BUNNIE WERE PLAYABLE!?!?!? NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
I wish this came out and had a good development cycle.
5:20
That’s disappointing, but not shocking. They would’ve had to balance between 6 characters. But still, I would’ve loved to play as Sally and Bunnie. Heck, just having them in a game makes me sooooooooooo happy.
Lol everything that could go wrong went wrong poor Sonic Mars
These are the vides I enjoy watching
As much as I like the 32X for what there is of offer on it, it should have never happened. I doubt a proper mainline Sonic game in 3D, if they at all could have pulled it off well, would have moved the needle on the add-on's sales all that much. People were turned off a bit by the Sega CD and then were turned off completely when the 32X launched and the Saturn very quickly after, that's too much hardware to throw at people in such a short window and for so much money.
0:31 who is Mark Kerny?
I think you meant Cerny?
cool video..keep up
“Western STI developers”
Sounds like my friends and I during our college days.
💀💀💀
I WISH THIS CAME OUT FROM A GOOD DEVELOPMENT!!! I LOVE THE FREEDOM FIGHTERS!!!
You forgot to mention Amy rose was one of the characters planned to be in sonic mars as well.
Amy Rose was NOT a part of Sonic Mars. There is nothing mentioned of her in the documents
@@TheObsessiveGamer oh my bad I’m thinking of sonic xtreme 🤦🏾
@@Therealones745 haha no worries. Sonic Xtreme is the next Sonic video I plan to do, so look forward to that :)
Interesting story to bring Sonic in 3d. It seems like the project was meaningless, working on a 32x, not a wise choice. Should take the project to the Saturn, more 3d capable. It's funny, I used to play Deluxe Paint 4 on Amiga 500. Do a lot of animation and sprites design. I didn't have internet back then, I made my own 2d NES Metroid animation. I always wanted to make my own games during that time. But I was young in my early minor. When Zelda 64 was being developed, I didn't get any Nintendo Power magazine or VHS videos, so I used Deluxe Paint 4 to make 2d animation to look 3d model of Link swing his sword and running animation
What's the background music name? Is it from Minish Cap?
Which song? There are several here
Please make a Sonic Extreme video
I wonder what would happen if Sonic Xtreme/Mars actually came out
Would Sonic Adventure still exist?
Would Modern Sonic exist?
I think they'd still happen as i'm sure Yuji Naka would have wanted to 1up the Americans. Might have intead been forced to work with STI for Sonic Adventure though is my guess. A shame really that couldn't be the case as I think the best stuff came out when the two worked together.
Love the video but the stock video transitions kill it for me.
Sonic jupiter
Im kinda wish they would retry these cancel games with the technology now they could make the games better then they could be
Mark Cerny (SIR-KNEE)
0:30 - Mark Cerny (pronounced SERN-ee, rhymes with journey) 😊
from whence did you gather this information
Sources are in the description
Sonic retro
Feh, everyone knows that Sonic Mercury is the best Scout anyway
We all know it's Sonic Jupiter and how op they're electricity is :P
@@TheObsessiveGamer Ooooooh them's Sonic the Fightin' words >:(
Yuji Naka got what he deserved when he got caught being a slimeball doing insider trading then if you ask me. 😏
Of you are gonna use Srb2 footage, atleast get some of 2.2
Just needed something to showcase the idea here haha
I love your videos
Thanks you! :D
You know, he created some of my favourite games and was a programming genius but uh . . . Yuji Naka is an asshole
Cool
Thanks!
BOOBOWSKI 😂
Boobowkai haha
Mark cerny pronounced :Ser-nee
6:53 "A free roaming 3d game" - Sonic Frontiers could have been exactly that. Well, technically it is. Unfortunately it is such an unfinished mess..
Unfinished mess seems to be a weird constant trend with Sonic lol
L take
Nah its good
first
Nobody cares
eyy
If Sega had me around, they'd have cancelled Bug!, Clockwork Knight, and other games in favor of making a Sonic game at launch. Anyone who thinks they're bigger than the company and project can either shut up and check their ego at the door or I'll show them the door and wish them well. That includes Yuji Naka. There would be no infighting under my watch.
Also, I'd have cancelled the 32X outright and gone right to the Saturn. All games for the 32X would either be moved to the Saturn or cancelled. And I'd have had the techies streamline the Saturn so it's easier to program games for. Sega shot themselves in the foot by making the Saturn so complicated. Backward compatibility with the Genesis and Sega CD libraries was also a must.
>Clockwork Knight
Now you listen here, you do not cancel a peak underrated platformer like that :P Otherwise I don't think that would have helped much as those are all made be different branches of Sega. STI put everything they had into it. The problem was how little Sega execs were willing to assist them along the way after losing a bulk of their staff.
Sonic mars would have saved the Sega.
Maybe not Mars since that was on an add-on but Sonic Xtreme could have I imagine
Sonic was never good
Get a life
oh wow never heard that one before
In all his low poly beauty :P
@@TheObsessiveGamerlol for real tho good video man
@@The_Sofa_King Thank man! :)