Ford ZF5 Transmission Pops out of Reverse
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- We rebuild a Ford ZF5 transmission from a 1997 Ford F Super Duty.
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Watch Wes Work
P.O. Box 106
Fulton, IL 61252
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I rebuilt my zf5 last year, it was my first attempt at rebuilding a transmission. One tip for anyone else attempting this: you can use a couple ratchet straps to hold the gearset together when you lift it in/out of the tailhousing. It worked just fine instead of the special tool.
Years ago I decided to try my luck rebuilding an A4LD out of a 90s Ford Explorer. Got told by the parts guy it would never work and that I had no business even taking it apart to fix it without having a clean room, the correct fixture to hold the transmission, training, etc. I bought the manuals, read up on it, bought the parts, and it worked fine. I'm just a home garage guy and that transmission looked a lot simpler than yours.
I am a self taught trans rebuilder. People that are scared of transmission repair are deceiving themselves. They are not magic. As said, get the manuals(the so-called experts consult manuals too 👍👍), learn and understand hydraulics and planetary gearsets.(for autos). Manual boxes are child's play.
👍👍right on feller's.. same here 👊
I'm never going to rebuild an engine or a gearbox. But I can't look over a competent mechanics shoulder in real life 😁
A4LD is a simple trans...not a single special tool required....a C-3 w/OD. Not really much of a common problem with those...bushings lasted, gear-train lasted...seals wore out. Easy overhaul.
My A4LD burned up and having rebuilt a C3 in the 80s in my garage, I carefully assessed the situation and paid my local shop to rebuild that A4LD. Funny story: the trans shop had never seen one like it. The guy who originally bought the minivan got all the options, period, including the high altitude options. He lived on Mercer Island and that minivan never went over anything higher than Snoqualmie Pass 😂
The manual impact driver is such an underused tool. Such a brilliant thing when you remember that you have one.
I find that often I don't even need to hit it. That large handle gives me the extra torque needed just turning it like a screwdriver.
Watching videos like these remind me to have a professional like yourself do it. I would have a pile of scrap metal if I attempted it.
@@akawireguy1197 Yeah that is also an option but it's brilliant toolall the same.
@@chrismosmeier555 I'm not convinced about that. Using powertools though I totally support your hypothesis, the manual impact is a very safe to use though. Unless you miss and bash your hand.
True - but often people don't know you have to pre- torque them!
“GOT IT !” 5:12 - must be my all-time favorite quote from the humble mastermind. Thanks Wes for making my day again. 👍👍😎👍👍
He did well to hold back the tears at that point! 😵💫
I FELT THAT 😫
Kudos to him for leaving that in, that would have been a perfect point to jump cut to “AlL dOn3! 👍🏻🤪”
@@Mrhalligan39 That's what I would have done 🤣
Certainly meets the shadetree qualifications.
Always amazed at complicated things like this.....there was an engineer who sat down and designed all these bits & pieces, made sure they fit together, and worked.
Thanks for another great video.
Nice to see a real mechanic work
and worked.......hmmmmm...transmission pulled to fix ????!! Ford CEO a while back said they working on improving quality. Can't remember if that was the current CEO or... Henry Ford.
I thought I fully understood how manual transmissions worked vs. automatics, but... I'm still just as lost. I don't think I'll ever understand autos. It's all black magic.
@@MattExzy modern automatics are a wonderful thing. With the electronics and computing power available they can be made to operate reliably for many many years and miles. That is if the bean-counters don't get in there and use inferior quality parts to save a few cents. Proper Maintenance and Service also helped a great deal.
@@bennym1956 what do you want? Fixing it without pulling it? I doubt it
A transmission tha will work forever without failure? Physically impossible. You have to find a compromise between cost and longevity.
The average lifetime of a car is what? 15 years before getting replaced because of new gadgets in ned cars? So why trying to build a transmission that lasts 30 years when it's not even used for this long (in most cases)?
I used to keep several of those as 'swing units' for plow trucks at the Ford truck dealership I worked at. Popping out of reverse or 1st for that matter was a common thing. BTW for those who don't know, R is just down from 5. If you decide you want to grab a 6th gear, you're going to wipe out the R synchro....happened so often. The plastic gear-train holding tool is very useful...in fact aligning them is pain w/o it. Put the bearings/races in a kitchen-type toaster oven and they just fall on the shafts. I've done so many of those things. Decent transmissions. Thanks for invoking the memories.
It's even worse because ZF put that synchro on reverse. On most older transmissions you'd get a nasty grinding the second you tried to hit reverse at any speed above 0 mph.
@@WatchWesWork Having older 4 speeds and having rebuilt them, I was wondering why they bothered with it in the first place. Seems pretty useless in a truck transmission.
I tried to go into 6th in my 5 speed Corolla while barreling down the Motorway at 70mph back in 2016. Oddly enough my gearbox survived without any ill effects to this day. I had been driving around a 6 speed Ford Focus 1.5TDCI for 3 months for work and I got in my own car to go home from the office and did it without thinking. What a fail.
@@WatchWesWork I was going to say it's pretty rare to see a syncho on reverse. I've never driven a car with one. my 2012 certainly does not.
The “reverse detent” as Wes called it in the video is actually a reverse shift interlock. It’s prevents shifting straight from 5th to reverse (pulling the lever straight back into reverse). To shift into reverse, so long as this interlock is installed, the lever must move back towards its neutral position (between 3rd and 4th) then move the lever straight to the right and down into reverse. This is why the interlock plate is sort of loose on the dowel at 22:30.
“that wasn’t that bad”…, well Wes, it might not have been “that bad” for you, but I will reserve my transmission rebuilds to being vicariously experienced thru watching you do the work, while I sit here in my recliner sipping coffee, and eating donuts. All of your transmission videos are real treats.
Thank you sir.
Yeah it's impressive the intuitive understanding he has. That's all experience, and ability to visualise things moving in 3D space. He's wired for it. For me, as soon as half the gears fell off into that bucket - the 'repair' would be over for me. I would spend hours trying to put it back together and probably failing, even with a diagram. I'd just shop around for a second hand transmission and use that lol
Shims are behind the main bearing races in the case. Get the end-play down to 0 to 0.003" an the thing will feel great. Too tight and you're screwed with a wrecked assembly. Too loose and it feels loose. I think I have a few hundred different sized shim floating around in my 1990s tool box.
Not reveling in your oopses. But when those parts fell through your forklift forks, I again was reminded that I watch your stuff cuz you're real. That stuff happens everywhere from SpaceX to the local repair shop. Thanks for always showing the entire repair. Cheers buddy.
My response was oh s==t.
That static ring with rubber on the inside at the end is called a usit ring. It is for hydraulic applications, mainly to seal bolts. It can be used on fully threaded bolts, very handy.
Thanks for the official name of this rubber centered special washer. I was in the business for years with carburetion and fuel injection. Did a lot of drag racing so I broke a lot of parts. Had lots of problems just having money for the parts, let alone the manual. Love to keep learning about these things.
Never heard of that, only Dowty or bonded seals. Loads of search results using those names.
@@erik_dk842 Dowty is the original company that made them in the UK.
@@erik_dk842 Dowty is another name and they are both bonded seals. Main suppliers here list them as Usit rings.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who instinctively shouted when the transmission gears slipped between the forks like that! Anyway, as for cleaning before taking something apart, especially if it's as unwieldy as this, I would just worry about cleaning along the joints and around the screws (a few swipes with a stiff brush and a quick blast with an air hose) to minimize dirt getting where it shouldn't...
Well Wes, you are a much better man than me! When those gears fell off the forks, I would have headed for the bar!!
Maybe he edited out that part? 😂
If you noticed he put an oil drain pan under the forks before he started. No dummy he!
I am constantly impressed by your ability to tackle ANYTHING that comes through your doors. Thanks for the great videos!
The mechanic ( Warren Rogers ) that runs the TH-cam channel " Western Truck and Tractor Repair " also has the ability to repair anything that comes through the door of his repair shop. Plus, he will go to the customers location and repair anything at their location if requested.
@@BobSmith-iu3hx .. Thanks for the lead on that fellow .. Looks like some good JD videos there ..
@@robertqman5751 Your welcome ! Yes, Warren Rogers does spend a lot of his time repairing John Deere equipment and from what I can see, he is very good at it.
Once I split the case and saw all the gears. I'd crapping my pants.
Jeeez,Wes, is there anything you CANT rebuild ????
Washington?
That's beyond repair !!@@WatchWesWork
This may sound silly. But to keep all the gears clustered together try using 'shrink wrap'. Wrapping it tight enough and with enough wraps it will hold everything perfectly in place.
We had a bearing heater aka crockpot just like yours there in my hydraulic shop and every time we used it I got hungry for French fries
Dual purpose?
Wes, you maybe should have set something on the forks first, like a piece of plywood.
Love your videos.
And he could have tied it down
My reverse went out on my mid 90s f250, at 100,000 miles back in the day, exhaust work done by Marvin, the Killdozer Guy, Granby Colofornia.
I was a mechanic for a number of years however, I've never seen anyone able to work on anything that rolls in and do so seemingly with ease. He is my hero.
I’m a shade tree mechanic and decided to rebuild the trans in my ‘14 Fiesta ST. I have the manual and took my time figuring it out. Initially I missed the issue and had to pull it back out and replaced *all* of the bearings to be sure. The issue was the input shaft bearing. Anyway, the hardest part of the job was getting the parts. It took months in some cases. Oddly I had to order stuff from Europe and that arrived within a few days! The trans has over 50k on it since I rebuilt it and still going strong. Last month I replaced (not rebuilt) the trans in my ‘06 Odyssey. Fun stuff. Thank you, Wes, for making vids like this that give us regular guys a view of what it takes to dive into a job like this. Couldn’t have done it without it. 👍
I've worked on just a few manual transmissions, but nothing as beefy as this one. Really enjoyed the video, there is something magical about all those gears playing together.
In the "Billie Jean" playlist, I've got a few videos about the 5 speed in my Class 7. Wes about has me thinking a gal could take on replacing 4th gear synchro...
I really enjoy these detailed videos you do. Thanks for sharing 👍
There are definitely two schools of thought when it comes to washing something before taking it apart. I can understand both sides reasoning. Personally I do wash before taking apart. My reasoning for that is that the dirt is going to have to come off anyway. I would rather come off outside before I start taking it apart then all over my shop floor while I'm taking it apart. Also keeps the parts washer cleaner.
Then again I live in Florida so snow never plays a part in my decision making process :-)
Cant imagine working on something covered in crap. I clean it first.
@blake8297 I'm with you, takes 5mins and you're not getting covered in crap
At least it doesn't have 233 uncaged needle bearings that all fall on the floor when disassembling
It's always great when you comment about things to look out for and how to do it right as you go along. That makes it easier to learn. I have watched a transmission rebuilder's videos. He just lets us watch as he rips them apart and puts them back together. Not much information given out as he goes along. Thanks again for the great videos.
Finally! The Loctite 515 makes a guest appearance!
Love your transmission videos. I’ll never be brave enough to mess with one but I’ve always enjoyed seeing you work on them. Cheers!
I agree I would never attempt this
I tore apart an old automatic when I was a young fella. Probably would have got it back together and working without a problem, except I smoked a joint somewhere in the process and, well...
I’ve would never get that thing working again! So many parts. Great work as always 😊
there's no doubt i'd have a handful of bolts left over with no obvious place to place them
I’d probably get it put back together with about 1/3 of the parts left over. And it would work somehow. I call those extra parts gallbladder and appendix.
mabye a nice pallet with a piece of plywood attached for an adjustable forklift work platform... it works well for me.
I'm still waiting for the TH-cam edit of pattern bolt removal composed only of cuts of moving the tool between bolts but not actually removing them. I think this is the channel to do it.
Hmm. Sounds exciting.
Dang it Wes, I saw that fry daddy and had to go to the kitchen and make me some chicken strips and fries!
Update? Have you heard back from the customer yet? How about now? Now? :-D
I particularly enjoyed all the things falling on the floor.
Every time...
I love it when you said " ya let's put it on the forklift forks" all those "dah" memories moments come flooding back.
Did Max give the trans a pre-work rodent scan? 🐭
Watching Wes is a breath of fresh air. He really doesn't give a shit about what negative people say. But if you have a good idea, he will tell you. He's not fake at all. Refreshing.
The forklift is an under appreciated workshop tool. It was the first adjustable stand up desk. It can be a mobile workbench, welding table, hydraulic jack, crane, elevated work platform, tow vehicle and you can even use it to lift up and shift pallets. 😀
Thanks for another great video.
You can also crack walnuts with them!
And a handy walnut cracker.
Good Morning, Wes! Great call on the secret snap ring. If you hadn't caught that, this could have been a much longer fix. Keep up the good work!
See Andrew Camarata...
Great comeback! Although it’s fun to watch when the big AC does his thing. 🥸👍✅
@@WatchWesWork Bwhahahahaha That was a tough video to watch.
5:10 - if you don't laugh in sympathy with Wes, you clearly haven't done any kind of DIY project... LOL!
I’ve seen guys in the motorcycle world making square or slightly rectangular boxes out of 2x4s to hold the cases of their engine. They never fit perfect, but they fit well enough to hold the engine solidly. It looks like that concept could have been helpful when disassembling the shaft.
Sounds like a vw beetle..they always did that..1973 sun bug lousy reverse even after rebuild,,I miss it NOT..something about my breath freezing to inside of windshield..
Gearboxes always amaze and scare 😱 me at the same time
You should add the Thanks$ button because this is payTV quality.
Always amazed at all of the repair areas you dive into - most people would have sent that to a transmission shop. It would nice to have you nearby.
I'll pitch in some 💰 let's move Wes to a sunnier state...😅
I have a couple of these ZF5 manuals in my Super duty Ford's, all work awesome but they're spendy to find in good shape. After watching your video Wes Id gladly tear into one If I bought it cheap enough. Heck I could make some good side money as a decent back yard mechanic! I'd never attempt to rebuild an automatic transmission as I'm not crazy enough yet 😂. I Appreciate the excellent video since I own and enjoy these gear boxes! 💯👍👍👍👍👍
I'll echo some other comments. I'd never dare to crack that open and if I did, it likely would never work again. Brave soul!
Comments about cleaning the trans before you start? I was saying that to my wife when you said it. My first LOL. The second was your "got it!" as the gears were going in all directions across the floor. Mad respect though. All I could think was no,no,no when I saw the inside of that thing.
Enjoy your videos Wes - thank you for taking us along. One comment, using copper washers on aluminum housings is that Cu and Al are dis-similar metals, and the Al will corrode away due to galvanic reaction. Lube oil may mitigate this to some extent, but I know from experience in the electrical power industry that special alloys are needed to terminate Al and Cu conductors, and have seen what happens to Al when done improperly.
Good point...Dielectric grease might help too.
Different application. Just guessing the current flowing thru the connectors would accelerate the process, not positive, just a thought.? 😃
@@kevinknight470 That's true if it uses the casing as ground. Not a lot of current for a reversing switch but yeah...
I’ll tackle a rear end, mess with carburetors, even do an engine. I draw the line on any transmission.
Here jasper, summit, wherever you choose to get it, take my money! 😂
You made that look like it wasn’t that big a deal. 🤔
It’s probably that your just that good! 👍
Oh, that's why you don't put it on your forklift forks!
in the 70s using a Motor's Manual as a guide, dad and I put new bearing and synchro's in a Ford 4 speed top loader. I'm not sure what we did right or wrong, but as long as you had your foot on the gas it would stay in first gear back off holding your hand on the shifter and it would jump out of first so hard it would slam back into second, made my 1-2 shift at the track seem like it was an automatic!
Hi you crafty devil you! ... it again was a pleasure to watch you work Wes and again greetings from a ( now ) longtime viewer from The Netherlands a.k.a. Holland ... Greetings and Carry on!!.
Welcome back!
Man if there's anything I would have done differently then I would have washed it before disassembling... And maybe not drop all the gears onto the dirt lol
I admire your knowledge base but I am really blown away with your willingness to tie into so many wild and diverse issues on an equally diverse universe of things from antique crawlers to welders. When I recall you formerly traveled to lay hands on CNC and other machining devices, I have begun to wonder if you are this Midwest electro-mechanical savant or a product of Area 51 or Roswell. In either case,Wes, rock on and Nanoo Nanoo!
I've been working as an intern in a driveline shop while I'm getting through the diesel technology program at the local community college. They mostly have me building Eaton Fuller heavy duty transmissions. The ZF guy hates working on these transmissions. "This is the last one I'm doing" he says every time one comes in. He had one come back three times once.
Looks like your shop suffers from the same affliction mine does. Strong gravitational pull towards the floor... 🤣
Rainman Ray would call it "Mainshaft gravity" or something similar!
@@redmondjp mine is equal opportunity gravity... 🤣
A plate on the forks would have been favourite... LOL
The most well retained shift tower I have ever seen!
I would have used 9 bolts…
I said "OH shit" for you when the main shaft cluster fell. Years ago I had a Dodge Dakoya 5 spd apart. Similar design , case comes off assembled gear shafts but the counter shaft and main shafts were held by a bearing plate between tail and main case., still needing at least 6 hands to hold gears together to assemble in case.
You're slowly becoming a minor league transmission shop. I put a reverse ring and pinion kit in a Subaru 5MT 2 years ago to install in a VW Vanagon. The kit reversed the transmission so it would work in a rear engine application. Similar set of required tasks as this job. It looks simple enough, but it's not for the faint of heart if you don't have the right tools and some know -how. Great job.
Interesting with that Subi transmission in a rear engine VW. What about a Subi engine as well? The older ones didn't eat cylinder heads for breakfast
Yes it was mated to a 2.5L. Multi-layer steel turbo head gaskets solve that issue
Hi Wes. As long as you wear gloves and place the insides of a trans on the shop floor, you don't have to worry about cleaning the case first. Just sayin'.
Just a bit more complex than the Borg Warner super T-10 I used to rebuild on my garage floor during my Hot Rod days!
i made my spending cash in high school buying Muncie's that jumped out of gear. Take 2 or 3 to make one. Put it in my Nova and drive it couple days, pull and sell. Could swap trans in less than an hour. But I also was too stupid to charge properly for my work. Always worked waaaay too cheap.
@@gailtaylor1636 Your high school business plan sounds a lot like mine back then. Did lots of work for folks but did not charge near enough for what it was worth! Good Ole days!
@@skiphill9 Fully retired now. Do my best to toggle from bed to Hardee's for breakfast, then finish off the day in recliner watching TH-cam videos. I don't miss working at all.
The synchronizer Lock for Reverse gear Looks Kinda Discolored somebody definitely been in this transmission a few times that second gear Looks like a cheap Nock off Of a Oem Ford gear shouldn't have had small chips like that if it was a Harder then a Coffen Nail Gear @Watch Wes Work
Hey Wes, I know for sure one thing I would have done... Send it to someone like you! Well Done as always!
Hey, why don’t you put the transmission on your forklift forks?
You made it look a bit easier than it is, but i do like seeing rebuilds done by hand without all the special jigs and fixtures. You have a great channel with instresting content. Thanks.
I like the idea of pouring the maple syrup on the bearings before reassembling the transmission. Made me want pancakes.
Wes, the way you just take on jobs is impressive. Excellent video. Thanks.
5:12 I saw that coming. a pet peeve of mine is not securing your work. Put a piece of scrap ply on the forks, strap it down or use c clamps.
I would've smeared more dirt and grease on it before I started working on it. Washing is overrated.
Finally a voice of reason!
Cleaning things is Sarah-n-tuned territory. Best to leave that to her expertise.
Save the screw, people will need a part number for it.
I'll put an affiliate link in the description...
@@WatchWesWork 😆😆😆
@5:20 Gravity is turned on and functioning....
Wes got what he said with “about to have parts everywhere” then it fell. Cracked me up cause we all have done that.
Oh man the Reverse Synchro ring Looks pretty beatin down that will do her
I rebuilt a rt 910 10sp years ago my first year as a mechanic my boss said take it out and fix it boy I got thrown in the deep in quick, great video keep up the good work God bless from GA and stay safe
Disassembly was quick, the forklift definitely helped with that.
It has been MANY moons since I have worked on repairing transmissions, and I am so happy to see the use of caged roller bearings instead of the loose needle bearings I had so much trouble with in a 1953 Mercury 3-speed manual...You do great work, Wes... You are an inspiration to the masses out here. Keep it up...we need people like you to show "how things should be done", instead of the sloppy work we are usually exposed to at many dealership shops across the country..
As soon as those gears hit the floor I would have hit the ceiling. Patience is not my long suit.
Hey Wes.
I would have washed it first. LOL
Things I would never know if it where not for Wes's channel 👍👍😉 I always wondered how synchro's worked.
Yep. He said something initially that raised my hackles but I've learned to finish the vijeo before commenting. He properly explained it later. It's a brilliantly simple system.
If I had to do that job I would definitely have some gears left over.
Thanks for the upload this is really interesting
You explained that so well I thought "hey, I could do that!" And then I laughed and I laughed and I laughed at myself! Thanks for sharing and LOVE the channel!!
Hello Wess. new subscriber here, really enjoy your program. You are very informative and helpful with many different things. look forward to watching your future programs. Take care 👍
when all of those gears dropped on the floor, I would have said well you need a new transmission
You the man Wes
I think the sealing washer is called a "dowty" washer - at least by the British. Great for avoiding over-torquing drain plugs on GoldWings!
I really wish you’d put out more content. Besides mortske you’re my favorite channel to watch. Always a step above with the detail you go in to and I appreciate that every time. Goes to show there are good mechanics out there that do know what they’re doing.
A plow truck with a bad trans!?!? Ready, steady, shoot the parts cannon!
Not a plow truck. At least I don't think it is.
sorry bout 2nd gear Wes. I was trying to get the tires to chirp in 2nd.
It's a dually, so that must have been tough!
@@WatchWesWork believe it or not snapped the output shaft 30y ago when my boss had me drive a loaded bucket truck. I didn't know that you shouldn't side step the clutch trying to beat a car out at a traffic light. The driveshaft was wallowing out the tail of the trans. Oops
I was wondering if someone was powershifting that transmission!!🤣
Having a selection of squarely cut exhaust tubing/pipe and schedule 40 pipe comes in VERY handy to set seals and bearings without cocking them all to hell. Really like that bearing puller you have. Could have used that a couple thousand times over the past 50 years.
The old sheet metal screw and side cutter routine is exactly what I use when I'm constipated.
TMI...
Dayyuuummm!
Cracking video. Also, 5:12 is just my mechanical nightmare. Like, how the hell do you know how to put that all back together? I have shit left over when I build an Ikea bookshelf.
Love it! Great work!
gravity is best removal fixture
Very impressive repair Wes!
Nice video. Thanks for posting.
Put it on the forks they said it would be easy they said.
Did that come out of a vehicle north of the border, owned by a certain man who goes by the name, Peg? Had one of those in our OBS FTreeFiddy- it hated shifting first thing on cold New England mornings. Love your channel, look forward to the junk that comes your way!