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*Charles crumb* : _I know what the homicidal tendencies stem from now_ . *Z* : _You do_ ? *Charles crumb* : _It stemmed from an excessive degree of Narcissism_ . *Z* : _What's the connection between Narcissism and the homicidal tendencies_ ? *Charles crumb* : _Well, when Narcissism is wounded... it wants to strike back at the person who wounded it_ .
He's correct and you only discover someone has Narcissistic Personality Disorder when it's most likely too late... because you'll be blindsided as they're already working to destroy you from the beginning. When it's time to discard you, they treat you like you deserve it.
@Troy Tempest Any type of power forced sexual fantasy that women may or may not have is rooted in A. Fantasy, they don't want the actual reality and B. Psychopathology, a problem in their thinking. It is by no means natural.
I met Robert Crumb when I was about 20 and very immature. I was introduced to him by his girl friend at a party. She had shown me some of his work which, despite my immaturity, I thought was phenomenal. I was anxious to meet him but I was amazed how introverted he was. Having a conversation with him was difficult. His later success didn't surprise me.
for goddsakes people, he's not saying Crumb was a rapist, or that the film depicts a rapist, he is saying that the film offers an insight into the the type of pathology commonly found in serial rapists. Big difference
I think you need to rewatch the film. His younger brother admits to wanting to rape girls and admitting to assaulting them, and his older one wanted to have sex with a little boy. It's in the movie if you actually paid attention. Also, Crumb himself is like right on the edge of whatever pathological line there is. But his younger brother admits it
There's literally a scene where his homeless brother describes how compelled he was to pull down a girls pants randomly at a store. Like he HAD to do it, he would do anything to do it, the compulsion was so strong and it overtook his mind. Pretty sure thats rapy
it wasn't Robert it was his younger brother who is an admitted serial molester and that its just a step away from rape. theres a scene in the film about it. its not a theme of the documentary its a specific scene hes referencing.
Correct -- there is indeed a scene where the younger brother talks about grabbing a woman in public, but that scene (and even that brother) played a small role in the entire film.
Crumb IS kind of a hero. He proved that even the lowest level of men can become powerful through hard work and mastery. He does harbor resentment and it shows in his work but he still triumphed over his fears. And his work proves that pain and frustration is the best fuel for success
For a world-class psychologist like JP to say the film is the "best documentary" he's ever seen, I'm sure to a lot of laypeople it makes you wonder if there are more to the film than you can understand. And I think that's more than likely true when you're not a psychologist. JP said it clearly about the psychoanalytic aspect of the film "you can't see it generally unless you're in a clinical situation unless you know the details of someone's life". I see a lot of comments expressing their disappointment towards the film. Don't be so quick to judge it simply because you don't understand the psychology behind it. I hope JP could one day expand and upload his insight regarding this film especially on the "dreadful" mother and her relationships with her 3 sons. Traumatic childhood experience is often the reason people turn out "abnormal", and I would certainly like to know what happened to the Crumb kids.
NetGuard You’re spot on. JP thinks on another level. I have listened to all his podcast about 3 times now and learned a tremendous amount about myself. When I rewatch movies there is greater depth in what I’m watching. It’s not just about being entertained but insight in the human psyche.
@geezusispan What is the correlation with boys as an audience and not being world class? Jordan Peterson has studied psychology his whole life; why should I listen to you over him? Do you have a TH-cam channel where I can listen to your advice?
@geezusispanI've already experienced ego death so whatever you are assuming is wrong. I am defending someone because what they say is more important than what you give them credit for. I guess, being invited to talk, literally around the world, disqualifies you as world class and isolates the problem to just North America boys; doesn't it? You don't have a TH-cam channel because you think you would be labeled presumptuous? You haven't really defended your opinion very well so I am just going to walk away from the conversation. Enjoy the rest of your day.
i believe the good doctor jordan peterson is referring to Maxon Crumb, Cartoonist R Crumb's brother when he is talking about studying the mind of sexual deviant and how we are held down by the past. And how a bad upbringing can damage. Watch the documentary and pay attention to the parts of his brothers, they are both fucked up in their own way but also very creative and intelligent. R Crumb who is excentric himself turns out to be the most normal of his brothers. Pay attention especially to about the last half hour or so. What i really found interesting was how the insanity of one of his brother began to show up in his work(he was also a cartoonist as a younger man), the deterioration of his mind was visible in his work.
I just watched it and I think you're right. The whole time I was expecting R to be the oedipal rapist and I was like, "this guy's actually doing really well for himself, he's definitely not a failure." When Maxon was talking about pulling the girls shorts down at the cash register that's when I assumed it was him. Only there isn't so much focus on him throughout the movie so I didn't get that clear of a picture on how he thinks.
Yeah that last part where the older brother became isolated was crazy. All of the detail got blended and faded into the background. His brain slowly became incapable of reproducing the outside world. It all became one big recycled mush until he could no longer draw anymore and then i was horrified when it was just notebooks full of text that he couldn't even read or remember. It was as if his brain ate itself in the most terrifying and slow way imaginable. Terrifying but the most fascinating thing that i've probably ever seen.
The line in the movie i found interesting is Charles - who killed himself shortly after the film was shot, said narcissism is a wound and homocide is the revenge. something along that line. Frankly I don't see much shocking about the film. perfectly understandable but probably because of my own background. in fact, i think a lot of artists are not surprised at all about that film.
I agree. But from the psychological perspective I think the story sure has a different twist. I mean as a psychologist what is not to love and adore about the live and the work of an artist. The same the other way around, how an artist cannot completely fall in love in the knowing of the neuro-psychology behind all that things that provoke us to make art.
Omg, that line.... I have it stored in my diary and ya it is of deep significance. I will share that here. *Charles crumb* : I know what the homicidal tendencies stem from now. *Z* : You do? *Charles crumb* : It stemmed from an excessive degree of Narcissism. *Z* : What's the connection between Narcissism and the homicidal tendencies? *Charles crumb* : Well, when Narcissism is wounded... it wants to strike back at the person who wounded it.
@@thecsslife right? What shocked me--I was left pretty quiet the rest of the evening after watching--was with the older brother, I saw myself. Or rather what I could easily have been. His situation, the mother herself, it hit way too close to home. A lot of the movie hit too close to home, honestly.
Saw it many years ago and it was a pretty riveting doc. I found it rather depressing but Peterson does get it right, indisputably on one point, at the very least, Crumb and the other characters are very frank and forthcoming. Nothing is hidden or dressed up. It's there, in our faces to deal with and worth a watch. Just don't expect it to have a happy ending.
I have always wondered why I was so intrigued by this documentary, I mean I am an artist and love his art but the psychological part of the film is very interesting and to see how narcissistic behaviors play out or the tell all brothers revealing their own minds to the point of being truth tellers in their own twisted human behaviors makes it so real to me, not that I condone such behaviors but that in a sense we all have sort of dysfunction that other people don't understand and there for we hide it in a way are not truthful towards one another.
I told my daughter that she had a right to her secrets. To die because you allowed a lot of people to know you as pathologically unfit means that you need to exercise your right to privacy or find life unbearable. The artists will find maybe here that it is more than they can take, to be shocking, to reveal your own tolerances which people around you in your community never even considered. It is about like you will never have friends more trustworthy than you had when you were 5 6 9 and to 12. There is a lot to youth.
If you've already seen 'Crumb' (and paid attention), you'll know exactly what this guy's on about with the 'how a rapist thinks' stuff. If not, you could easily go away from this assuming that Robert Crumb is a rapist. Seems strange to be writing this but Peterson is actually giving some worthwhile advice here: watch 'Crumb' - it is an astounding documentary.
Thanks for posting this. I watched the documentary, and I liked a line in it, where crumb said something along the lines like: Yeah I suppose I'm sexist, it shows up in my work. My only answer to that, is that I'm telling the truth about myself, for better or worse. take it or leave it. I found that comment interesting, not because of the topic, but because of the way he surrended himself like that, about his true opnions. I need to use that line more often, about certain feelings ive got in my life. it matches the attitude ive got about some of my opnions, but I wasn't putting it into those words.
Roger Ebert raved about this documentary. After seeing it, I wondered how he and his brothers managed to avoid being institutionalized. A very sick guy.
Robert Crumb is no ":sicker" than anyone but he does like to illustrate on paper what is in his mind's eye while adding his social commentary. Most well-known people would never dare speak plainly to anyone let alone a camera, they are the sick ones. Then there are the liars, they are the worst of all. Your Hollywood is rotten with them.
All brilliant artists are intensely sick. His unbelievable talent prevented his institutionalization. And having the good fortune of being in the right place at the right time (1960s San Francisco)
If you are implying that having "God" in their life may have changed things.....let me remind you of many many people who preach "God" and claim their religion as their salvation....yet have many skeletons in their closet. An easy example is the massive amount of sexual abuse in the Catholic churches....they all had a life NOT void of God....are they better than others? This movie was over your head if thats all you got out of it.
A religious life does not nessecarily mean a life with God at its centre. Unless a god centred life has only one interpretation, which is your unsound and narrow choice of perspectives. It is you who has missed a point.
Belief in God is believing in people's account of a deity communicating with them. Atheists, non believers simply dont believe in mens story of communicating with Gods. Believers believe what men says God told them. It's a belief in men account of meeting and communicating with God and has nothing to do with a God communicating directly with humans in a way that is universally consistent, unambiguous across all cultures, race and religion. Eg God directly communicating with an indestructible writing to all humans in their own language and when interpreted is 100% the same to all other languages in the world.
To all the commenters who said that they couldn't see what JP was pointing to in this documentary... I felt a similar way when I watched the film, but if you listen to JP, he is not saying it is obvious, he says "if you watch Crumb, and you pay attention" you'll get insight into the mind of a serial sexual predator... The clip is about the Oedipus myth and Freud's related theory... I think if you look at the three brothers in the film, the stories they relate, and the way Robert Crumb depicts women, their size, they way he treats women in the film, an understanding does arise out of these details... whether or not is the whole story or not, I don't know... I think the conversation of JBP & Camille Paglia contained a different hypothesis about the sexuality of predators: th-cam.com/video/v-hIVnmUdXM/w-d-xo.html
Thank you Mr. Peterson, you have quite broadened my horizon. From Dostoevsky to the Gulag archipelago and now Crumb. Highly appreciated. Fuck school, its utterly failing to teach you anything of interest other than maths. All you need is the internet and good judgement.
Ive met Crumb, He's an empath, A kind person. A sensitive person. Repressed in his youth? Of course. But no fucking rapist. You need a sense of humor to appreciate his art
Definitely no rapist. In the time of "Me Too" no one has come forward and said a peep. The only people that have anything negative to say about Crumb are the people that get offended by his comics. People forget that they don't have to read them. I don't read things I don't care for, I don't watch TV shows that look stupid to me, I don't listen to awful music. It's not difficult, but everyone wants to cancel everything.
TERRY Zwigoff, Jordon. JP is monumentally fos here. Was Heironymus Bosch "bent and depraved"? You're only depraved when you lack the humor and sense of irony required to distance yourself from your depravity and therefore act on it. Peterson does Crumb's accomplishment and creativity immense disservice here.
This is why Livia Soprano was such a great character. Nancy Marchand was incredible in that role. My wife and I use her dialogue all the time while we riff on daily life. Carmella said “FROM BEYOND THE GRAVE”. 😆
Was he talking about Crumb's younger brother Maxon, the guy who molested girls in San Francisco? I think he's confusing the two brothers. Robert Crumb was pretty harmless towards women. Well, actually, I think he expressed a lot of frustration toward women in his early life. But later, he had normal relations with women, got married, had a daughter. He seemed to be a pretty devoted father.
Is there any healing from this? This was the exact situation that happened to me. My mother was bipolar and my father was extremely distant person. I felt like I ended up having to take care of my mother... This made me horribly prepared for life and ended up making a useless loser who could only use comedy to ever interact with anyone... At this point, I'm 30 year olds... moved back in with my parents and have no idea how to fix my fucked up life.... I wish there was something i could do
You can definitely do it. Don't put yourself down. It's situation that's bad. And it can and will change If you are absolutely stubborn and won't stop until you get things done to make your life better. Step 1- stop analyzing your current situation, over and over again. Step 2- Try being less emotional but more sympathetic towards yourself. Forgive yourself for past mistakes. Step 3- Embrace the struggle, and tragedy of life. Everyone has it. You definitely have it more than others. But due to relativism, understand it's life and death for everyone, every single time. Step 4- Make small goals and pursue them. When you have a start, leap and make changes in your life to improve. Don't let past or your emotional state of whining stop you. Step 5- Forgive yourself if you relapse, or things don't improve quickly. Step 6- Understand Life is chaos and full of tragedies. And it's not you who is singled out. So get up, dust yourself, and try again.
Hello, Evan. I hope my comment finds you. I recommend you find a "Bach Remedy Practitioner" I won't explain much. All I'm gonna say that they're widely used in Germany and the United Kingdom. Bach Flower remedies are non-invasive and can help you clear toxic emotions and past traumas gently. I wish you a light heart unburdened by the past
Interesting. If anyone is interested into a deeper dive into Crumb's work should check out CANONICALLY CRUMB, my web-series exploring the comics and characters of the Crummy-verse.
Walk to the end of a long winding country lane, climb over the broken old wooden gate and jump across the puddle, then kneel down and look under the pile of leaves beneath the oak tree.
I think he means if you watch Crumb with something beyond the mindset of a literal-minded child, you get to see some origins of the thinking prevalent among sexual predators.
Interesting, and I guess to want to watch/listen to the film :" *Crumb (1994 Documentary)* ", (1:53:28), published by Laura Kanter, Feb. 9, 2016, th-cam.com/video/-CAhA2ZZfq8/w-d-xo.html . I haven't yet watched or listened to the video so can't say anything about it; but, I did watch/listen to a trailer of around 2 minutes and it seems interesting, potentially anyway.
Peterson must pathologize and mythologise always and in so doing completely misses the human beings presenting before him.. his theories sap life of its intimacy humanity reality and potency
I'm a very skeptical person, too, about the whole field of psychology. It's worth pointing out that Crumb's father, at least as he is portrayed in the film, is much worse than his mother. I just saw that movie recently--what was so awful about her? Also, there are dark, surreally misogynistic tones to some of Crumb's work, but all his past girlfriends interviewed in the film remember him fondly, and in reality he was mostly interested in dominant, powerful women. So it seems logical that since he is not a serial rapist, his work could not reveal the true mindset of one. Maybe the work of someone like the Marquis de Sade, who actually carried out some of his twisted ideas.
Yes his mother seems like a pitiful figure, but not evil. While R. Crumb in the documentary talks about his father beating him so badly when he was 5 that he broke his collarbone.
Crumb isn't a serial rapist and I don't think Peterson is suggesting he is one. I believe he is referring to Crumb's brother Maxon who admits to assaulting women and in one scene of the documentary he does explain his thought process which causes him to attack women.
Is crumb really a movie ?, where can i find it , think there's something to learn for me, I don't feel myself a looser , have a good education and think i am unique enough , now the have to invent a women who's a fit for me, as a men you don't control everything , you just need to be nice and well behaved , if that's not enough , then it is what it is in life.
Here, Peterson warps and infers the truth of Crumb so as to make his hypothesis fit. His conclusion that Crumb's mother is at the heart of all the Crumb brother's problems, that she's a simply horrible woman is just such bs..
Reminds me of all these people in youtube comments who watch a ten-minute video and then make grand judgements about people and their relationships, when they had never heard of them eleven minutes previously.
Reminds me of people who make broad sweeping generalisations and then proceed to apply them to situations where they are too incompetent or lazy to think the problem through.. what are talking about exactly?? You have no idea what you're talking about, nor did you offer any alternative hypothesis as to why the family was so so deeply pathological. Jesus christ.
I'll tell you the real failed hero story, it was a very religious teenager with a normal life, he prayed to god, attempted church and was keeping his chastity for marriage, he's life suddenly turned to poor and misery, one night he saw a couple of underworld movies, he was hungry skinny and depressed, sun he develops an interest in the occult and for 7 years learned everything he could from books teachers and internet content, one night he broke he's rosary in hatred and cursed God, for he's mental, fiscal and economic hell were on a pit hole of emptiness, so he decided to make a deal with the devil, he made the ritual, recited the words of the Solomon text and sacrificed a white pigged as the representation of the holy spirit. Then he started hearing voices nonstop and was declared mad and taken to a hospital, at 3 am in the hospital he saw the devil standing offering a blessing with his hand, he defied the beast and tried to punch it with he's fist, then the devil was happy and told him that he showed strength in defying him and offered him a wish, and that kid desperately and fast asked for power and the devil gave him that power, so the kids' soul became a shadow of he's past and now lives with the burden of his impulsive granted wish. So he will go to hell.
my mom is a liar, manipulative, narcissistic,is always the victim and does things on purpose to piss me off so she can blame me for everything. trying to move out but what should i do until i do?
Get a job and become a member of JP's patreon so you can ask him questions directly, or just watch his lectures. I'm sure you'll find something useful in them about your own relationships. He is, I would say, one of the best sources for a good answer that you can find in this world.
Leave if the situation is that bad. Leave and leave now. Also try not to fall into incel bs that is being pushed by alot of JPs fans. Ot is a deep dark hole that not everyone crawls out of
I would suggest you find good support, like a therapist who can help you with the transition of living on your own. For example if someone has been manipulated by an abusive parent, they may not know how to protect themselves, or create healthy boundaries or assert themselves. Moving away without professional help could just lead into another abusive relationship. That's what I went through, I read lots of books and stuff online, moved out and then found myself in various toxic relationships and then having to sort of what exactly I was doing to enable such dynamics and what I had to change in myself to not be a target to predators.
Robert and Aline Crumb’s interviews (2) with Terry Gross of the WHYY NPR Fresh Air show Archives are great. The art critic Robert Hughes has a large roll in the Crumb movie. Hughes greatly admired Crumb’s work. I watched the Crumb movie several times in sections as it is packed with detail about human sexuality and US culture. Criterion put it out on Blu-ray with some extra cut footage from the making of the film.
What would be really interesting is a video where Prof JBP goes through the commentaries on a free of choice video of his and we get to see his facial expression going through the posts :)) I'm have a vague notion it could be a really funny input! :))
oh im sorry i dont get sarcastic jokes over the internet from someone i dont know, you use smiley faces so its believeable that youre stupid enough to write your first comment in a serious way, which btw you edited after my reply because you realized sarcasm doesnt really work over text on the internet
Tell me how I have upset you, because I want to know how to do it again. ;) (Plz dont miss the smiley face included for your sense of humor) I will now edit this reply making you a winner yet again :))
Very interesting topic. I`ve never been afraid of rapists, well, except for a couple of times, which I`ll refer to later in this comment. What I was mostly afraid, say, of was what rapists would either do or try to do to people other than myself; for such danger seldom happened to me, all while it happened to many other people. In my personal case, it was problems, which quickly became non-problems, but it was due to two LARGE, muscular, body-building gays, one in Boston, the other in Montreal. Both wanted me to go to the toilet room with them without clearly saying why and you can most easily, readily guess why. Unh, unh, bud! Not going there, and I, standing at the bar just sipping down a beer, told both of these huge men that I was with another guy who was seated at a table with some people he knew but I definitely didn't know, and this was enough for the two huge gays to just smile, chuckle, like thinking I was gay and was with my counterpart partner. I`m not homosexual, but I don`t bother, say, such people, paying them all due respect; however, what I said to the two huge guys deterred them. In both cases, it was guys working as bartenders and maybe they were gay, but both sided with me, for I was peaceful and treated them with due respect. Woosh! Saved my butt that time or those times (my fanny was tightening, say). Damn. But, I think to have also gotten a little "taste" of what sexually aggressed and raped women can experience; it can be very dangerous, brutal, completely insane. However, it does sometimes happen that some psychopathic, say, men sexually aggress or rape smaller guys. I've even heard of some mentally sick farmers more-or-less raping (having forceful sex with) some farm animals; cows anyway, maybe also hogs. I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist so can't thorougly analyse such human conduct, but there definitely is something socio-psychologically wrong, abnormal, ... with it.
He's very off the mark here with regards to the documentary, there are only glimmers of the 'rapist' remarks from Crumb's brother's stories, he was a very troubled child and they all fully know that. Wonderful documentary if you're interested in Crumb's work or the beginning of underground comics, but nothing like how JP's describing it. But I'd be lying if I said I'd not been baffled by JP before.
I think what Peterson's referring to is the scene where the younger brother in San Francisco describes exactly what he was thinking when he would molest or rip clothes off of women in public. He's very frank about it, and I can see that it's only a small leap to get from that to rape.
Yeah that's the bit I was getting at too. Don't think it justifies this video though. Ehhhhh, also I'm not sure it always is just a small leap from molestation to rape, but that's neither here nor there. Are you another who watched the documentary as a response to this video?
I think that he could of also been talking about Robert Crumb's suppressed rape desires that would become manifest in his drawings. Robert Crumb clearly shows that mindset towards women all throughout the film, especially with the woman with no head comic.
It's because clinical psychiatrists can read the signs very quickly. If you are not well versed, you can't spot it. I thought it was obvious and frankly trivial.
Well....for one thing she apparently tried to give all of her children enemas at one point...and if you watch the documentary you can tell she's just not a healthy person. Oh and she was addicted to drugs and would abuse her husband to the point he had to wear makeup to work to hide the scratches on his face.
@@missyk2454 It's funny you say "and if you watched the documentary" when you don't seem to have watched it very well. Right after that they said nobody was given enemas. R. or C. Crumb said (in Charles's room) there was just a threat of that against someone at some point. Once.
Foreigners are more tribalist, and as they come the need for White/ Native born Americans to change their family model from one of moving out and becoming independent to having to stay with/dependent on the tribe/family due to housing and living costs increasing in the face of foreign tribalism/familyism.
Peterson's inexplicable detour from his Freudian / Jungian dissertation on Œdipus into a review of "Crumb" is -despite his overall positive review of the film- somewhat misleading. The myth is worth heeding and the film very much worth seeing, but the one has very little to do with the other. That said, even when he misfires, like here, Peterson is usually interesting to listen to -and the film is a fine introduction to Crumb and his work for those not familiar with it. An odd, tenuous juxtaposition, though.
Interesting how Peterson cherry picks the Crumb documentary, talking about the "absolutely dreadful" mother, when in fact it was Crumb's violent, abusive father who terrorized his children. A "sadistic monster", according to brother Charles. I guess it's this same approach that allows one to wade into Bible stories and claim to emerge with golden truths, ignoring all the ridiculous nonsense that might get in the way of whatever point you hope to make.
To be fair both parents were quite bad, he mentioned their mum was a meth addict screaming for hours for some time during their upbringing which Charles described as being terrible
Not to mention Charles threw a quip in about how their Dad used to wear make-up to work because his face looked like "ground beef" from the mom scratching it up It wasn't as exposed in the documentary, but easy to see how the Mom could be just as bad; if not worse, than the dad.
If you actually paid attention while watching, you would notice how almost everything negative about their lives revolved around their mother. She was a drug addict and practiced domestic violence on their father and them (scratching her husbands face and threatening them with enemas). Even that pornographer mentioned the reason why R. Crumb had a sexual interest in feet and legs was because that was all he could see when his "towering mother" was looking down at him. Also, R. Crumb admitted that he never truly loved any woman except for his daughter, Sophie, which further shows how unhealthy his relationship with his mother was. I am not saying that their father had no effect on them (and neither did JP if you actually listened). All I'm saying is that their mother had a huge negative impact on their lives. This documentary assumes that the viewers are intelligent and doesn't spoon-feed everything to them but apparently their assumption is wrong.
DISCLAIMER: Peterson is NOT speaking the 'litteral truth' or 'absolute truth' he is merely proffering HIS opinion. Please reference the number of times a single-minded smooth tongue orator has dragged the world into appocalyptical danger. [Always Read The Small Print - or in this case, the context] In this case Peterson is slandering and deformating Crumb, indiscriminately. Q. what is the difference between a 'know-all' & a biggot?
Relax, bro. Dr Peterson says that Crumb is very intelligent and undeniably talented (he also married very well). He just says that Crumb struggles with his shadow.
Genre: Psychologist as voyeur authority of things he does not understand. Kind of like when Sartre wrote a 400 page book about Jean Genet while Genet was still alive. Talk about irritating.
Good to get the word out and educate people about Crumb, but good God this is the dumbest assertion I've ever seen in my life. What's next, "The Failed Life of Van Gogh" "Herman Melville was a loser" "Ezra Pound Was Crazy and Should Be Ignored." Keep up the good (cough cough) work Jordan! Get the word out!
Never mind. I was in denial. I got to the part with the cartoon about the woman that didn’t have a head, and the protagonist does anything he wants with the body. And Peterson says that the part that explains what a rapist thinks like is only a small part of the documentary. Well, there it is.
How many God Damned times is he going to invoke Jung in his crackpot theories? Look, I'm not saying anything in particular Jordan says is wrong... I'm just saying... It's not Jungian in any way. Jordan's "Mythological Jungian Archetypes" are mythological... but they are neither Jungian, nor are they Archetypes. Jungian Archetypes are familiar roles condensed into a generic... such as Hero, Jester, King, etc... They are NOT specific mythological characters such as Horus and Jesus... They are not abstract characters such as Chaos, Heaven, or Hell. When Jordan says, "The Jester has a unique niche in that since he is beneath the contempt of the king, he's also the only one who can criticize the king without recourse" that is legit Jungian Archetyping. When he starts talking about "Good female" "Bad female" and making references to Disney movies... come on man. Don't be bringing Jung into your commentaries on MOVIES THAT CAME OUT IN HIS LIFETIME!!! If he had shit to say about the Sleeping Beauty or Pinocchio, he would have brought them up during his life... but at the very least... AT LEAST use archetypes the way he used them if you are going to invoke his name! Jesus Christ... sometimes it's like Jung is your sponsor or something... but somehow you are unfamiliar with his product. FFS, just own your own crackpot ideas! Hell, I'm willing to bet from now till forever, you will be more famous than him anyway!
The film Crumb is okay, I’m watching it right now. It’s kind of boring. I wonder if Peterson has a different perspective on it after being a clinical psychologist for 20 years. He probably picks up on things I can’t. Oh well, I’ll continue watching Peterson with awe
@alphant1 Well some people have different opinions than yours. Also she never said she didn't like Robert Crumb's work she just said the documentary was boring. Maybe you're right and she isn't very intelligent but I think to assume that based on the fact that she doesn't like the same things as you is a pretty stupid thing to do.
in all honesty... admiting that a professional psychologist has more insight into the charakters of a documentary is actually the most intelligent thing to do, unless you yourself are a professional psychologist. I mean...find the film boring or not...but to act like youre able to see the film like Peterson does is ridiculous. I like people that are concious about their weaknesses.
Yeah, I saw that film too, there weren't any rapists in the crumb family, Jordan should be morally careful about making links like this, also, Robert crumb is dark humour, and I'm not sure Jordan has a sence of humour ??? Prove me wrong.
Peterson claims to be high in "trait openness" or creativity: his very MEH-looking letterhead/TH-cam icon that he had weaved into a rug, is an artwork of his own named "The Meaning Of Music" or some such pretension..."Abstract Whatsis 101" is a more apt title; his bestselling self-help book "12 Rules For Life" is a future bargain-bin consignment/door-stop that doesn't tell you anything any other such glorified pamphlet hasn't; his magnum-opus "Maps Of Meaning" never became the peer-reviewed essential of it's field that doubtless, he thinks it should be; creative is the JP...really? Peterson's field was always, and long before he got into it, "left-leaning"...R Crumb is in a sense, a hero of the left -- the dreaded hippie-yipee!!! culture...anyone else smell something funny here? Peterson, get over your envy of Crumb for being a real artist with real creativity, and that he got the attention from the ladies that you'd wished you'd had, and that he did this all without being a conformist like you (Crumb was always suspected of being a "narc" at parties because of his unfashionable dress-sense). Peterson, you're a status-seeking whore for the status-quo, taking narcissistic revenge against all those lefties in your field who probably responded to YOUR "ideas" with nothing but a raised brow and wry smile, and much less than the WOW you felt entitled to. And you look haggard, 15 or so years older than you are...I thought the "shoulders back, chest out" stance is supposed to leave one with a healthy-looking lobster glow?
Mean culpa...Y'see, I admire Rob Crumb, a man who gave up on life in the form of status-chasing -- y'know, "fake it till you make it", "exude confidence", all that uber lobster stuff. Crumb just basically gave up on becoming a "winner" and remained authentic, gave up on being "accepted" by mainstream society and...got EVERYTHING he desired!@@annebomba
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Hey everyone, ManOfAllCreation here. I made some thought-provoking t-shirt designs of sheep wearing masks. I think the designs are pretty awesome :D
Have a look and see if you like it: manofallcreation.creator-spring.com/
*Charles crumb* : _I know what the homicidal tendencies stem from now_ .
*Z* : _You do_ ?
*Charles crumb* : _It stemmed from an excessive degree of Narcissism_ .
*Z* : _What's the connection between Narcissism and the homicidal tendencies_ ?
*Charles crumb* : _Well, when Narcissism is wounded... it wants to strike back at the person who wounded it_ .
Z stands for Zwigoff?
@@omaralsabbagh3606 yes it was the filmer who had that part of the exchange with him. Quote sounds about right when you think about it
Man what fascinating dialogue. Super interesting.
I suggest people read Otto Kernberg (or check out his videos on TH-cam) if they want to learn more about all the facets of pathological narcissism.
He's correct and you only discover someone has Narcissistic Personality Disorder when it's most likely too late... because you'll be blindsided as they're already working to destroy you from the beginning. When it's time to discard you, they treat you like you deserve it.
Women mocked me, laughed at me, or paid no attention to me whatsoever....then, I got famous. - R. Crumb
@zadose Nature is cruel
@Troy Tempest Any type of power forced sexual fantasy that women may or may not have is rooted in
A. Fantasy, they don't want the actual reality and
B. Psychopathology, a problem in their thinking.
It is by no means natural.
@Troy Tempest ahhh the feminist rape fantasy ... that one had me scratching my head for years
@Troy Tempest Want to put that one to the test? You first. Then I'll go.
@@petermoore7796 He couldn't love because he was still in love with his mother.
I met Robert Crumb when I was about 20 and very immature. I was introduced to him by his girl friend at a party. She had shown me some of his work which, despite my immaturity, I thought was phenomenal. I was anxious to meet him but I was amazed how introverted he was. Having a conversation with him was difficult. His later success didn't surprise me.
Are you serious? Crazy
About what year was that? I’m guessing it was the mid-sixties because he was famous by the late sixties.
Seems doubtful someone born in the 40s is commenting on stuff on TH-cam
It was 1964 in Cleveland Heights Ohio at a party Crumbs girlfriend (later wife) invented me to.
John Cameron. I spend my life on You tube. Everything from history, technology and home maintenance.
for goddsakes people, he's not saying Crumb was a rapist, or that the film depicts a rapist, he is saying that the film offers an insight into the the type of pathology commonly found in serial rapists. Big difference
I think you need to rewatch the film. His younger brother admits to wanting to rape girls and admitting to assaulting them, and his older one wanted to have sex with a little boy. It's in the movie if you actually paid attention. Also, Crumb himself is like right on the edge of whatever pathological line there is. But his younger brother admits it
@asd fgh there are also two types of rapists. Predators and opportuninists.
There's literally a scene where his homeless brother describes how compelled he was to pull down a girls pants randomly at a store. Like he HAD to do it, he would do anything to do it, the compulsion was so strong and it overtook his mind. Pretty sure thats rapy
it wasn't Robert it was his younger brother who is an admitted serial molester and that its just a step away from rape. theres a scene in the film about it. its not a theme of the documentary its a specific scene hes referencing.
Correct -- there is indeed a scene where the younger brother talks about grabbing a woman in public, but that scene (and even that brother) played a small role in the entire film.
They were also dealing with the effects of a cruel abusive father, it was not just their mother.
Of course Peterson would leave out that Crumb's dad was a hardline conservative who would beat his wife and kids
booommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Which was worse?
Those often go hand in hand
who else is here after reading the comments on the crumb doc about people being there from the Jordan Peterson video???
Who's here from this video and then from the crumb doc video and back to this video again following further analysis of the crumb documentary video???
Hello there.
On Robert Crumb's mother: When her eldest son commits suicide, what was her response? 'How could you do this to me?!'
Mary Agee lmao
Narcissistic response, "How could you do this to me"
She only lasted a few more years after him anyway.
how do you know she said this?
How do you know?
Crumb IS kind of a hero. He proved that even the lowest level of men can become powerful through hard work and mastery. He does harbor resentment and it shows in his work but he still triumphed over his fears. And his work proves that pain and frustration is the best fuel for success
Starts talking about Crumb at 5:19.
Yet the first 5 minutes are relevant to the entire lesson ...
Thanks. I couldn't stand that rambling at the beginning.
thx pal
For a world-class psychologist like JP to say the film is the "best documentary" he's ever seen, I'm sure to a lot of laypeople it makes you wonder if there are more to the film than you can understand. And I think that's more than likely true when you're not a psychologist. JP said it clearly about the psychoanalytic aspect of the film "you can't see it generally unless you're in a clinical situation unless you know the details of someone's life". I see a lot of comments expressing their disappointment towards the film. Don't be so quick to judge it simply because you don't understand the psychology behind it. I hope JP could one day expand and upload his insight regarding this film especially on the "dreadful" mother and her relationships with her 3 sons. Traumatic childhood experience is often the reason people turn out "abnormal", and I would certainly like to know what happened to the Crumb kids.
NetGuard You’re spot on. JP thinks on another level. I have listened to all his podcast about 3 times now and learned a tremendous amount about myself. When I rewatch movies there is greater depth in what I’m watching. It’s not just about being entertained but insight in the human psyche.
@geezusispan ur dull brain failing to understand his explanation doesn't make him him a bad psychologist
@geezusispan Fail troll. Good effort though.
@geezusispan What is the correlation with boys as an audience and not being world class? Jordan Peterson has studied psychology his whole life; why should I listen to you over him? Do you have a TH-cam channel where I can listen to your advice?
@geezusispanI've already experienced ego death so whatever you are assuming is wrong. I am defending someone because what they say is more important than what you give them credit for. I guess, being invited to talk, literally around the world, disqualifies you as world class and isolates the problem to just North America boys; doesn't it? You don't have a TH-cam channel because you think you would be labeled presumptuous? You haven't really defended your opinion very well so I am just going to walk away from the conversation. Enjoy the rest of your day.
Jordan Peterson used to be so amazing. I miss ghost version of him so much.
i believe the good doctor jordan peterson is referring to Maxon Crumb, Cartoonist R Crumb's brother when he is talking about studying the mind of sexual deviant and how we are held down by the past. And how a bad upbringing can damage. Watch the documentary and pay attention to the parts of his brothers, they are both fucked up in their own way but also very creative and intelligent. R Crumb who is excentric himself turns out to be the most normal of his brothers. Pay attention especially to about the last half hour or so. What i really found interesting was how the insanity of one of his brother began to show up in his work(he was also a cartoonist as a younger man), the deterioration of his mind was visible in his work.
I just watched it and I think you're right. The whole time I was expecting R to be the oedipal rapist and I was like, "this guy's actually doing really well for himself, he's definitely not a failure." When Maxon was talking about pulling the girls shorts down at the cash register that's when I assumed it was him. Only there isn't so much focus on him throughout the movie so I didn't get that clear of a picture on how he thinks.
Yeah that last part where the older brother became isolated was crazy. All of the detail got blended and faded into the background. His brain slowly became incapable of reproducing the outside world. It all became one big recycled mush until he could no longer draw anymore and then i was horrified when it was just notebooks full of text that he couldn't even read or remember.
It was as if his brain ate itself in the most terrifying and slow way imaginable. Terrifying but the most fascinating thing that i've probably ever seen.
I watched Crumb last night on Jordan Petersons reccomendation. Amazing .
I just watched it too. It really is like staring at your shadow and seeing it become something misogynistic and malevolent.
@@willbales3496 huh??
The line in the movie i found interesting is Charles - who killed himself shortly after the film was shot, said narcissism is a wound and homocide is the revenge. something along that line.
Frankly I don't see much shocking about the film. perfectly understandable but probably because of my own background. in fact, i think a lot of artists are not surprised at all about that film.
I agree. But from the psychological perspective I think the story sure has a different twist. I mean as a psychologist what is not to love and adore about the live and the work of an artist. The same the other way around, how an artist cannot completely fall in love in the knowing of the neuro-psychology behind all that things that provoke us to make art.
I found the film more relatable than shocking, shows something I guess
Do u think most artist (draftsman)got asexual abuse in there childhood ?
Omg, that line.... I have it stored in my diary and ya it is of deep significance. I will share that here.
*Charles crumb* : I know what the homicidal tendencies stem from now.
*Z* : You do?
*Charles crumb* : It stemmed from an excessive degree of Narcissism.
*Z* : What's the connection between Narcissism and the homicidal tendencies?
*Charles crumb* : Well, when Narcissism is wounded... it wants to strike back at the person who wounded it.
@@thecsslife right? What shocked me--I was left pretty quiet the rest of the evening after watching--was with the older brother, I saw myself. Or rather what I could easily have been. His situation, the mother herself, it hit way too close to home.
A lot of the movie hit too close to home, honestly.
Saw it many years ago and it was a pretty riveting doc. I found it rather depressing but Peterson does get it right, indisputably on one point, at the very least, Crumb and the other characters are very frank and forthcoming. Nothing is hidden or dressed up. It's there, in our faces to deal with and worth a watch. Just don't expect it to have a happy ending.
It has a great ending. He sells his art and moves himself and his family to France.
@@snoolee7950 And his brother kills himself after being bullied his whole life.
I have always wondered why I was so intrigued by this documentary, I mean I am an artist and love his art but the psychological part of the film is very interesting and to see how narcissistic behaviors play out or the tell all brothers revealing their own minds to the point of being truth tellers in their own twisted human behaviors makes it so real to me, not that I condone such behaviors but that in a sense we all have sort of dysfunction that other people don't understand and there for we hide it in a way are not truthful towards one another.
I told my daughter that she had a right to her secrets. To die because you allowed a lot of people to know you as pathologically unfit means that you need to exercise your right to privacy or find life unbearable. The artists will find maybe here that it is more
than they can take, to be shocking, to reveal your own tolerances which people around you in your community never even considered. It is about like you will never have friends more trustworthy than you had when you were 5 6 9 and to 12. There is a lot to youth.
If you've already seen 'Crumb' (and paid attention), you'll know exactly what this guy's on about with the 'how a rapist thinks' stuff. If not, you could easily go away from this assuming that Robert Crumb is a rapist. Seems strange to be writing this but Peterson is actually giving some worthwhile advice here: watch 'Crumb' - it is an astounding documentary.
Fascinating Documentary......Very Dark.......
I find Crumb's high school angst and tribulations to be completely fascinating.
Man how did i end up here?! Very interesting stuff, I want to see more.
Thanks for posting this. I watched the documentary, and I liked a line in it, where crumb said something along the lines like: Yeah I suppose I'm sexist, it shows up in my work. My only answer to that, is that I'm telling the truth about myself, for better or worse. take it or leave it.
I found that comment interesting, not because of the topic, but because of the way he surrended himself like that, about his true opnions. I need to use that line more often, about certain feelings ive got in my life. it matches the attitude ive got about some of my opnions, but I wasn't putting it into those words.
Very Millenial of you, Greta.
"I may be wrong, but tough luck, that's my opinion."
So FaceBook-esque
Be true to your self.
Edgy
He understands his shadow, the problem is he doesn't have the courage to face the dragon. Too bad.
Greta P very insightful comment , thank you for sharing !!
Roger Ebert raved about this documentary. After seeing it, I wondered how he and his brothers managed to avoid being institutionalized. A very sick guy.
Robert Crumb is no ":sicker" than anyone but he does like to illustrate on paper what is in his mind's eye while adding his social commentary. Most well-known people would never dare speak plainly to anyone let alone a camera, they are the sick ones. Then there are the liars, they are the worst of all. Your Hollywood is rotten with them.
All brilliant artists are intensely sick. His unbelievable talent prevented his institutionalization. And having the good fortune of being in the right place at the right time (1960s San Francisco)
His brother Maxon was at one point, and so was Charles. If you paid attention to the movie you'd know this.
just finished watching it, "a life void of God"
If you are implying that having "God" in their life may have changed things.....let me remind you of many many people who preach "God" and claim their religion as their salvation....yet have many skeletons in their closet. An easy example is the massive amount of sexual abuse in the Catholic churches....they all had a life NOT void of God....are they better than others? This movie was over your head if thats all you got out of it.
A religious life does not nessecarily mean a life with God at its centre.
Unless a god centred life has only one interpretation, which is your unsound and narrow choice of perspectives.
It is you who has missed a point.
People who say they’re religious don’t necessarily have ‘God’ in their life, they tend to follow their whims and desires
Belief in God is believing in people's account of a deity communicating with them. Atheists, non believers simply dont believe in mens story of communicating with Gods. Believers believe what men says God told them. It's a belief in men account of meeting and communicating with God and has nothing to do with a God communicating directly with humans in a way that is universally consistent, unambiguous across all cultures, race and religion. Eg God directly communicating with an indestructible writing to all humans in their own language and when interpreted is 100% the same to all other languages in the world.
You are right
To all the commenters who said that they couldn't see what JP was pointing to in this documentary... I felt a similar way when I watched the film, but if you listen to JP, he is not saying it is obvious, he says "if you watch Crumb, and you pay attention" you'll get insight into the mind of a serial sexual predator... The clip is about the Oedipus myth and Freud's related theory... I think if you look at the three brothers in the film, the stories they relate, and the way Robert Crumb depicts women, their size, they way he treats women in the film, an understanding does arise out of these details... whether or not is the whole story or not, I don't know... I think the conversation of JBP & Camille Paglia contained a different hypothesis about the sexuality of predators: th-cam.com/video/v-hIVnmUdXM/w-d-xo.html
I think that the sexual predator bit in the documentary was Maxon Crumb talking about his molesting phase: th-cam.com/video/BrNABxwP5kg/w-d-xo.html
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, though.
Terry Zwigoff . not Robert. Directed "Ghost World" and "Bad Santa" as well ..
Director of the documentary is Terry Zwigoff, not Robert Zwigoff.
I heard there is a class lecture where Jordan goes this film with details exploration? can anybody direct me to that please
Thank you, I shared
Thank you Mr. Peterson, you have quite broadened my horizon. From Dostoevsky to the Gulag archipelago and now Crumb. Highly appreciated. Fuck school, its utterly failing to teach you anything of interest other than maths. All you need is the internet and good judgement.
Toxie ia a hero and a friend to children everywhere.
i love comicbook and he his a legend, hail Crumb
You stole my pic
Robert Crumb " My aniconda don't want none unless she got buns hun"
Watched the documentary & Jordan is making a lot of good points. Robert crumb is definitely an interesting character.
thank you for posting. Peterson is just wonderfull again and again
I haven’t seen him do a clip by Clío analysis of crumb. I’m told that he’s done many with his students but none have been uploaded.
It was actually Terry Zwigoff who made it but meh...
Ive met Crumb, He's an empath, A kind person. A sensitive person. Repressed in his youth? Of course. But no fucking rapist. You need a sense of humor to appreciate his art
Definitely no rapist. In the time of "Me Too" no one has come forward and said a peep. The only people that have anything negative to say about Crumb are the people that get offended by his comics. People forget that they don't have to read them. I don't read things I don't care for, I don't watch TV shows that look stupid to me, I don't listen to awful music. It's not difficult, but everyone wants to cancel everything.
TERRY Zwigoff, Jordon. JP is monumentally fos here. Was Heironymus Bosch "bent and depraved"? You're only depraved when you lack the humor and sense of irony required to distance yourself from your depravity and therefore act on it. Peterson does Crumb's accomplishment and creativity immense disservice here.
Dr Peterson is not analyzing Crumb's art--which is great--but his thoughts as admitted in the documentary.
There are mothers that cause chaos and problems until their last day…
This is why Livia Soprano was such a great character. Nancy Marchand was incredible in that role.
My wife and I use her dialogue all the time while we riff on daily life.
Carmella said “FROM BEYOND THE GRAVE”. 😆
Was he talking about Crumb's younger brother Maxon, the guy who molested girls in San Francisco? I think he's confusing the two brothers. Robert Crumb was pretty harmless towards women. Well, actually, I think he expressed a lot of frustration toward women in his early life. But later, he had normal relations with women, got married, had a daughter. He seemed to be a pretty devoted father.
Is there any healing from this? This was the exact situation that happened to me. My mother was bipolar and my father was extremely distant person. I felt like I ended up having to take care of my mother... This made me horribly prepared for life and ended up making a useless loser who could only use comedy to ever interact with anyone... At this point, I'm 30 year olds... moved back in with my parents and have no idea how to fix my fucked up life.... I wish there was something i could do
You can definitely do it. Don't put yourself down. It's situation that's bad. And it can and will change If you are absolutely stubborn and won't stop until you get things done to make your life better.
Step 1- stop analyzing your current situation, over and over again.
Step 2- Try being less emotional but more sympathetic towards yourself.
Forgive yourself for past mistakes.
Step 3- Embrace the struggle, and tragedy of life. Everyone has it. You definitely have it more than others. But due to relativism, understand it's life and death for everyone, every single time.
Step 4- Make small goals and pursue them. When you have a start, leap and make changes in your life to improve. Don't let past or your emotional state of whining stop you.
Step 5- Forgive yourself if you relapse, or things don't improve quickly.
Step 6- Understand Life is chaos and full of tragedies. And it's not you who is singled out.
So get up, dust yourself, and try again.
Hello, Evan. I hope my comment finds you. I recommend you find a "Bach Remedy Practitioner" I won't explain much. All I'm gonna say that they're widely used in Germany and the United Kingdom. Bach Flower remedies are non-invasive and can help you clear toxic emotions and past traumas gently. I wish you a light heart unburdened by the past
I hope things are going better man, we all got here for a purpose
I'm 45 living with father and mother and sometimes I feel like nothing will change... Sree Khrisna....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I’ve seen several families like this… home health …
It’s not work for the faint of heart.
I’ve been looking for the crumb film he saw
It's free to watch on YT. Just search it. Alternatively download it for free on any number of websites. Or buy it. Whatevers your poison.
m.th-cam.com/video/BrNABxwP5kg/w-d-xo.html
Interesting. If anyone is interested into a deeper dive into Crumb's work should check out CANONICALLY CRUMB, my web-series exploring the comics and characters of the Crummy-verse.
I just watched the documentary and it spent more time on the abusive father than on the mother.
Where can I find the Crumb documentary?
I'm in England.
th-cam.com/video/BrNABxwP5kg/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=toonmixcentral
Walk to the end of a long winding country lane, climb over the broken old wooden gate and jump across the puddle, then kneel down and look under the pile of leaves beneath the oak tree.
I think he means if you watch Crumb with something beyond the mindset of a literal-minded child, you get to see some origins of the thinking prevalent among sexual predators.
Anyone can point me in the direction of the documentary hes tlking about?
I find it difficult to believe a man of his vast expanse of reading hasn’t run across Joseph Cambell.
I saw that documentary years ago. Crumb created Fritz the Cat.
Oh thanks! thank you so much.
❤
Interesting, and I guess to want to watch/listen to the film :" *Crumb (1994 Documentary)* ", (1:53:28), published by Laura Kanter, Feb. 9, 2016, th-cam.com/video/-CAhA2ZZfq8/w-d-xo.html . I haven't yet watched or listened to the video so can't say anything about it; but, I did watch/listen to a trailer of around 2 minutes and it seems interesting, potentially anyway.
Peterson must pathologize and mythologise always and in so doing completely misses the human beings presenting before him.. his theories sap life of its intimacy humanity reality and potency
I'm a very skeptical person, too, about the whole field of psychology. It's worth pointing out that Crumb's father, at least as he is portrayed in the film, is much worse than his mother. I just saw that movie recently--what was so awful about her? Also, there are dark, surreally misogynistic tones to some of Crumb's work, but all his past girlfriends interviewed in the film remember him fondly, and in reality he was mostly interested in dominant, powerful women. So it seems logical that since he is not a serial rapist, his work could not reveal the true mindset of one. Maybe the work of someone like the Marquis de Sade, who actually carried out some of his twisted ideas.
Yes his mother seems like a pitiful figure, but not evil. While R. Crumb in the documentary talks about his father beating him so badly when he was 5 that he broke his collarbone.
Crumb isn't a serial rapist and I don't think Peterson is suggesting he is one. I believe he is referring to Crumb's brother Maxon who admits to assaulting women and in one scene of the documentary he does explain his thought process which causes him to attack women.
0:36
7:22: this is perhaps being a bit too hard on Robert Crumb. Loved the documentary, though.
Don't you ever call him failed. He's better than you are by several orders of magnitude.
THE PENTAAAAAA! That fight went on for...ev..er.
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@@eringodfrin7437 iuiijijjioijij
@@eringodfrin7437 iuiijijjioijijj
Is crumb really a movie ?, where can i find it , think there's something to learn for me, I don't feel myself a looser , have a good education and think i am unique enough , now the have to invent a women who's a fit for me, as a men you don't control everything , you just need to be nice and well behaved , if that's not enough , then it is what it is in life.
Here, Peterson warps and infers the truth of Crumb so as to make his hypothesis fit. His conclusion that Crumb's mother is at the heart of all the Crumb brother's problems, that she's a simply horrible woman is just such bs..
Reminds me of all these people in youtube comments who watch a ten-minute video and then make grand judgements about people and their relationships, when they had never heard of them eleven minutes previously.
Reminds me of people who make broad sweeping generalisations and then proceed to apply them to situations where they are too incompetent or lazy to think the problem through.. what are talking about exactly??
You have no idea what you're talking about, nor did you offer any alternative hypothesis as to why the family was so so deeply pathological. Jesus christ.
Boundaries not defined properly happens all the time
This man is calling out Chris Chan.
It's pretty good.... Crumb.... And sad....
I'll tell you the real failed hero story, it was a very religious teenager with a normal life, he prayed to god, attempted church and was keeping his chastity for marriage, he's life suddenly turned to poor and misery, one night he saw a couple of underworld movies, he was hungry skinny and depressed, sun he develops an interest in the occult and for 7 years learned everything he could from books teachers and internet content, one night he broke he's rosary in hatred and cursed God, for he's mental, fiscal and economic hell were on a pit hole of emptiness, so he decided to make a deal with the devil, he made the ritual, recited the words of the Solomon text and sacrificed a white pigged as the representation of the holy spirit. Then he started hearing voices nonstop and was declared mad and taken to a hospital, at 3 am in the hospital he saw the devil standing offering a blessing with his hand, he defied the beast and tried to punch it with he's fist, then the devil was happy and told him that he showed strength in defying him and offered him a wish, and that kid desperately and fast asked for power and the devil gave him that power, so the kids' soul became a shadow of he's past and now lives with the burden of his impulsive granted wish. So he will go to hell.
How’s he doing now?
Repent
@@hoppingrabbit9849 if you're wrong about God then you're damned forever so that doesn't sound like a win mate
my mom is a liar, manipulative, narcissistic,is always the victim and does things on purpose to piss me off so she can blame me for everything. trying to move out but what should i do until i do?
Get a job and become a member of JP's patreon so you can ask him questions directly, or just watch his lectures. I'm sure you'll find something useful in them about your own relationships. He is, I would say, one of the best sources for a good answer that you can find in this world.
Leave if the situation is that bad. Leave and leave now. Also try not to fall into incel bs that is being pushed by alot of JPs fans. Ot is a deep dark hole that not everyone crawls out of
I would suggest you find good support, like a therapist who can help you with the transition of living on your own. For example if someone has been manipulated by an abusive parent, they may not know how to protect themselves, or create healthy boundaries or assert themselves. Moving away without professional help could just lead into another abusive relationship.
That's what I went through, I read lots of books and stuff online, moved out and then found myself in various toxic relationships and then having to sort of what exactly I was doing to enable such dynamics and what I had to change in myself to not be a target to predators.
You're the problem. Not your mother.
There is movie is called bad boy bubby
Robert and Aline Crumb’s interviews (2) with Terry Gross of the WHYY NPR Fresh Air show Archives are great.
The art critic Robert Hughes has a large roll in the Crumb movie. Hughes greatly admired Crumb’s work.
I watched the Crumb movie several times in sections as it is packed with detail about human sexuality and US culture.
Criterion put it out on Blu-ray with some extra cut footage from the making of the film.
What would be really interesting is a video where Prof JBP goes through the commentaries on a free of choice video of his and we get to see his facial expression going through the posts :))
I'm have a vague notion it could be a really funny input!
:))
Oh shut the fuck up
And we have a winner! :)
Are you always this ...humorous or are you making a special effort today?
oh im sorry i dont get sarcastic jokes over the internet from someone i dont know, you use smiley faces so its believeable that youre stupid enough to write your first comment in a serious way, which btw you edited after my reply because you realized sarcasm doesnt really work over text on the internet
Tell me how I have upset you, because I want to know how to do it again. ;)
(Plz dont miss the smiley face included for your sense of humor)
I will now edit this reply making you a winner yet again :))
Pompous dishface spotted
I wonder if there is a connection with the character Kevin Wendell Crumb from the movie, Split.
Very interesting topic. I`ve never been afraid of rapists, well, except for a couple of times, which I`ll refer to later in this comment. What I was mostly afraid, say, of was what rapists would either do or try to do to people other than myself; for such danger seldom happened to me, all while it happened to many other people. In my personal case, it was problems, which quickly became non-problems, but it was due to two LARGE, muscular, body-building gays, one in Boston, the other in Montreal. Both wanted me to go to the toilet room with them without clearly saying why and you can most easily, readily guess why. Unh, unh, bud! Not going there, and I, standing at the bar just sipping down a beer, told both of these huge men that I was with another guy who was seated at a table with some people he knew but I definitely didn't know, and this was enough for the two huge gays to just smile, chuckle, like thinking I was gay and was with my counterpart partner. I`m not homosexual, but I don`t bother, say, such people, paying them all due respect; however, what I said to the two huge guys deterred them. In both cases, it was guys working as bartenders and maybe they were gay, but both sided with me, for I was peaceful and treated them with due respect. Woosh! Saved my butt that time or those times (my fanny was tightening, say). Damn. But, I think to have also gotten a little "taste" of what sexually aggressed and raped women can experience; it can be very dangerous, brutal, completely insane. However, it does sometimes happen that some psychopathic, say, men sexually aggress or rape smaller guys. I've even heard of some mentally sick farmers more-or-less raping (having forceful sex with) some farm animals; cows anyway, maybe also hogs. I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist so can't thorougly analyse such human conduct, but there definitely is something socio-psychologically wrong, abnormal, ... with it.
WHAT IN THE FUCK WAS THIS??????
mike, when people say they like honesty, they don't literally mean that much honesty.
Awoke femininity and it ate the hero.....eventually
"clients, mh patiens"
Shrinks will never call their clients patients. It's tradition.
He's very off the mark here with regards to the documentary, there are only glimmers of the 'rapist' remarks from Crumb's brother's stories, he was a very troubled child and they all fully know that. Wonderful documentary if you're interested in Crumb's work or the beginning of underground comics, but nothing like how JP's describing it. But I'd be lying if I said I'd not been baffled by JP before.
I think what Peterson's referring to is the scene where the younger brother in San Francisco describes exactly what he was thinking when he would molest or rip clothes off of women in public. He's very frank about it, and I can see that it's only a small leap to get from that to rape.
Yeah that's the bit I was getting at too. Don't think it justifies this video though. Ehhhhh, also I'm not sure it always is just a small leap from molestation to rape, but that's neither here nor there. Are you another who watched the documentary as a response to this video?
I think that he could of also been talking about Robert Crumb's suppressed rape desires that would become manifest in his drawings. Robert Crumb clearly shows that mindset towards women all throughout the film, especially with the woman with no head comic.
It's because clinical psychiatrists can read the signs very quickly. If you are not well versed, you can't spot it. I thought it was obvious and frankly trivial.
Why is he calling the mother "absolutely dreadful"?
Well....for one thing she apparently tried to give all of her children enemas at one point...and if you watch the documentary you can tell she's just not a healthy person. Oh and she was addicted to drugs and would abuse her husband to the point he had to wear makeup to work to hide the scratches on his face.
@@missyk2454 It's funny you say "and if you watched the documentary" when you don't seem to have watched it very well. Right after that they said nobody was given enemas. R. or C. Crumb said (in Charles's room) there was just a threat of that against someone at some point. Once.
Because he's a woman hater.
@@josephinem4818 way to reply to a two year old comment. with uninformed nonsense
When her eldest son Charles commited suicide, the first words she said was " how could you do this to me" that should explain why.
Bastion!
Foreigners are more tribalist, and as they come the need for White/ Native born Americans to change their family model from one of moving out and becoming independent to having to stay with/dependent on the tribe/family due to housing and living costs increasing in the face of foreign tribalism/familyism.
weird generalizations
Peterson's inexplicable detour from his Freudian / Jungian dissertation on Œdipus into a review of "Crumb" is -despite his overall positive review of the film- somewhat misleading. The myth is worth heeding and the film very much worth seeing, but the one has very little to do with the other. That said, even when he misfires, like here, Peterson is usually interesting to listen to -and the film is a fine introduction to Crumb and his work for those not familiar with it. An odd, tenuous juxtaposition, though.
Interesting how Peterson cherry picks the Crumb documentary, talking about the "absolutely dreadful" mother, when in fact it was Crumb's violent, abusive father who terrorized his children. A "sadistic monster", according to brother Charles. I guess it's this same approach that allows one to wade into Bible stories and claim to emerge with golden truths, ignoring all the ridiculous nonsense that might get in the way of whatever point you hope to make.
It's always the dads.
Perhaps that would be because Peterson is a misogynist.
To be fair both parents were quite bad, he mentioned their mum was a meth addict screaming for hours for some time during their upbringing which Charles described as being terrible
Not to mention Charles threw a quip in about how their Dad used to wear make-up to work because his face looked like "ground beef" from the mom scratching it up
It wasn't as exposed in the documentary, but easy to see how the Mom could be just as bad; if not worse, than the dad.
If you actually paid attention while watching, you would notice how almost everything negative about their lives revolved around their mother. She was a drug addict and practiced domestic violence on their father and them (scratching her husbands face and threatening them with enemas). Even that pornographer mentioned the reason why R. Crumb had a sexual interest in feet and legs was because that was all he could see when his "towering mother" was looking down at him. Also, R. Crumb admitted that he never truly loved any woman except for his daughter, Sophie, which further shows how unhealthy his relationship with his mother was.
I am not saying that their father had no effect on them (and neither did JP if you actually listened). All I'm saying is that their mother had a huge negative impact on their lives.
This documentary assumes that the viewers are intelligent and doesn't spoon-feed everything to them but apparently their assumption is wrong.
wow
DISCLAIMER: Peterson is NOT speaking the 'litteral truth' or 'absolute truth' he is merely proffering HIS opinion. Please reference the number of times a single-minded smooth tongue orator has dragged the world into appocalyptical danger.
[Always Read The Small Print - or in this case, the context] In this case Peterson is slandering and deformating Crumb, indiscriminately.
Q. what is the difference between a 'know-all' & a biggot?
Relax, bro. Dr Peterson says that Crumb is very intelligent and undeniably talented (he also married very well). He just says that Crumb struggles with his shadow.
robert crumb seemed rather easy going, funny, to-the-point and productive imo, not struggling in any way.
Love Robert crumb hate Jordan Peterson
For anyone confused about what Jordan means when he asks 'if you want to know how a rapist thinks': th-cam.com/video/Ildp0VWFLrc/w-d-xo.html
Why would you put League of Legends at the end of this AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Oedipal myth.... failed hero story....
Genre: Psychologist as voyeur authority of things he does not understand. Kind of like when Sartre wrote a 400 page book about Jean Genet while Genet was still alive. Talk about irritating.
8 minutes of this should be used as torture at CIA black sites. JP’s interpretations bare no basis in a reality that is not exclusively his.
i dont trust people who mess with there hands when talking.....
Good to get the word out and educate people about Crumb, but good God this is the dumbest assertion I've ever seen in my life. What's next, "The Failed Life of Van Gogh" "Herman Melville was a loser" "Ezra Pound Was Crazy and Should Be Ignored." Keep up the good (cough cough) work Jordan! Get the word out!
Who’s the rapist in the Crumb doc?
Never mind. I was in denial. I got to the part with the cartoon about the woman that didn’t have a head, and the protagonist does anything he wants with the body.
And Peterson says that the part that explains what a rapist thinks like is only a small part of the documentary. Well, there it is.
@@ozzyel4594no it's his brother Maxon
I think psychology is psedo. I kinda think JP knows it.
U AND JP BOTH ARE SOCK MUPPETS.
You're absolutely right. It's pseudo-science.
How many God Damned times is he going to invoke Jung in his crackpot theories?
Look, I'm not saying anything in particular Jordan says is wrong... I'm just saying... It's not Jungian in any way. Jordan's "Mythological Jungian Archetypes" are mythological... but they are neither Jungian, nor are they Archetypes.
Jungian Archetypes are familiar roles condensed into a generic... such as Hero, Jester, King, etc... They are NOT specific mythological characters such as Horus and Jesus... They are not abstract characters such as Chaos, Heaven, or Hell.
When Jordan says, "The Jester has a unique niche in that since he is beneath the contempt of the king, he's also the only one who can criticize the king without recourse" that is legit Jungian Archetyping.
When he starts talking about "Good female" "Bad female" and making references to Disney movies... come on man. Don't be bringing Jung into your commentaries on MOVIES THAT CAME OUT IN HIS LIFETIME!!!
If he had shit to say about the Sleeping Beauty or Pinocchio, he would have brought them up during his life... but at the very least... AT LEAST use archetypes the way he used them if you are going to invoke his name!
Jesus Christ... sometimes it's like Jung is your sponsor or something... but somehow you are unfamiliar with his product. FFS, just own your own crackpot ideas! Hell, I'm willing to bet from now till forever, you will be more famous than him anyway!
This guy always comes off as fatuous and pretentious to me.
The film Crumb is okay, I’m watching it right now. It’s kind of boring. I wonder if Peterson has a different perspective on it after being a clinical psychologist for 20 years. He probably picks up on things I can’t. Oh well, I’ll continue watching Peterson with awe
?????THIS DUDE IS A MORON!!!! what are u people in awe of???
@@skyjuiceification Could you elaborate?
@alphant1 why do you say that?
@alphant1 Well some people have different opinions than yours. Also she never said she didn't like Robert Crumb's work she just said the documentary was boring. Maybe you're right and she isn't very intelligent but I think to assume that based on the fact that she doesn't like the same things as you is a pretty stupid thing to do.
in all honesty... admiting that a professional psychologist has more insight into the charakters of a documentary is actually the most intelligent thing to do, unless you yourself are a professional psychologist.
I mean...find the film boring or not...but to act like youre able to see the film like Peterson does is ridiculous.
I like people that are concious about their weaknesses.
Failed as in world wide renowned?
Why do men fumble with their wedding rings?
Yeah, I saw that film too, there weren't any rapists in the crumb family, Jordan should be morally careful about making links like this, also, Robert crumb is dark humour, and I'm not sure Jordan has a sence of humour ??? Prove me wrong.
Didn't watch it very carefully!
Peterson claims to be high in "trait openness" or creativity: his very MEH-looking letterhead/TH-cam icon that he had weaved into a rug, is an artwork of his own named "The Meaning Of Music" or some such pretension..."Abstract Whatsis 101" is a more apt title; his bestselling self-help book "12 Rules For Life" is a future bargain-bin consignment/door-stop that doesn't tell you anything any other such glorified pamphlet hasn't; his magnum-opus "Maps Of Meaning" never became the peer-reviewed essential of it's field that doubtless, he thinks it should be; creative is the JP...really?
Peterson's field was always, and long before he got into it, "left-leaning"...R Crumb is in a sense, a hero of the left -- the dreaded hippie-yipee!!! culture...anyone else smell something funny here? Peterson, get over your envy of Crumb for being a real artist with real creativity, and that he got the attention from the ladies that you'd wished you'd had, and that he did this all without being a conformist like you (Crumb was always suspected of being a "narc" at parties because of his unfashionable dress-sense).
Peterson, you're a status-seeking whore for the status-quo, taking narcissistic revenge against all those lefties in your field who probably responded to YOUR "ideas" with nothing but a raised brow and wry smile, and much less than the WOW you felt entitled to. And you look haggard, 15 or so years older than you are...I thought the "shoulders back, chest out" stance is supposed to leave one with a healthy-looking lobster glow?
Garrison Fork
This comment tells us more about you than it does of anyone else.
@@allisonsolis6253 And what then, does it tell you?
Adhominem, jumping to conclusions, wild psychoanalysis
There is actually quite some truth in this... It's just a bit contaminated by hate
Mean culpa...Y'see, I admire Rob Crumb, a man who gave up on life in the form of status-chasing -- y'know, "fake it till you make it", "exude confidence", all that uber lobster stuff. Crumb just basically gave up on becoming a "winner" and remained authentic, gave up on being "accepted" by mainstream society and...got EVERYTHING he desired!@@annebomba
So lame. Nothing new.