Greetings Everyone! Quick correction for this video. Looks like Hellknight Signifier's capstone ability is implemented in the game it's just the mask that is not. So the boost is automatically applied to you without the mask. I still don't think the class is worth it but wanted to make sure that distinction is clear. Thank you!
As of the recent patches, Loremaster can also take the trickster Improved crit line of feats for rogue and fighter secrets WITHOUT the mythic path. So you can be demon or angel and still pick up a nice 15+ crit range with a normal crit on 20 weapon.
Have you actually tried this, or have you heard? Because firstly, I am pretty sure that was patched, 2ndly, its 2 feats for the threat range and another feat for the multiplier, and you can only take 1 combat feat, so even if they have reverted the bug fix, I dont see how this is possible.
Loving Hellknights. The image of angry yet cold-blooded lawyer who can talk himself out of any situation is dope af. Let alone spiky and razory black armor and pyromania. Also, you might underrate Signifier - try to look at him as a melee/casting class, trying to build it from Witch/Fighter multiclass rn and it turns out pretty angry.
One excellent choice for a Loremaster wizard/sorcerer/arcanist is creeping doom, which has to be the most powerful druid spell out there. Can utterly end encounters since, surprisingly most demons are not immune to nauseated or ability damage. Very nice to crack out when freedom of movement or immunity to mind-affecting spells is ruining your casters' day.
Loremaster: The biggest downside I have with the class is more an issue with the UI. When you're selecting a spell from another class list, it doesn't have a pop up to say what lists the spells are available on, and I don't think it details what the spells do, either on that menu. This means that particular level up takes *forever*, as I'm scrolling through the wiki for every spell that sounds useful, trying to determine if it's worth grabbing, or if I'm tossing away a level up. That said, grabbing "Harm" as a wizard gone Lich is fantastic. Tons of damage or heals, all you need is to apply the Reach metamagic to it so you aren't walking up into close quarters combat. I also recommend grabbing Precise Shot as a feat from Loremaster. No need to blow 2 feat choices from your progression to shoot spells into melee when this option is available.
I love hellknight because you can take a dip of it with paladin and double you bonuses against chaotic evil enemies, which most demons are. (at least it worked that way last time I played)
As always wonderful content and video. Loremaster used to be way way stronger because it gave you access to trickster specific feats letting you stack additional crit chance which was crazy getting a falchion (normally 18-20 x2) down to 13-20 x4 The absurdity was wonderfully hilarious but patched out.
Hi there Slandered , thanks for the super informative vids,!! Just got into WOTR and you have some great content on that game !!! On thing i don't understand and really hope you can help with is : I just tried Crpg Bro's Ember Loremaster build but there just isn't Greater Command in the list of cleric Spells...She's at level 10 (so 9 Stigmatized and 1 LoreM- raised Chatisma only)...how's that possible ? Also I just tried this yesterday but I know they released a pretty huge patch. Do you think that's the reason and they nerfed the spell list? Or am I doing anything wrong here ? Much appreciated if you have any insight.as I was really looking forward to that build :/
Good question. They added a ton of new spells but I am not sure if they changed where any of the spells are now located. I would recommend looking at Sosiel or making your own cleric mercenary up to level 10 and see if they get Greater Command to determine if it should be available at that level.
@@SlanderedGaming thanks for taking the time to answer this , appreciated it :) I have Sosiel at level 10 in my party and he does have greater command as a level 5 Spell. To be honest I just gave up on getting greater command on ember at that stage and took Haste from the wizard school instead. If you ever have an idea about this do let me know please :) Keep the great vids coming! :)
Personally, I'd give Hellknight an S++, it's powerful, it has many build opportunities, it has many dialogue options, it looks REALLY COOL, it's thematically really cool, i like roleplay of it, AND i love devils in Pathfinder/D&D, + in real life, i follow similar way of thinking (the end justifies the means and, cold calculations, law, and efficiency over the goodness/morality). It's a class specially made for me xD.
Just a small correction: Signi-fer not signi-fier. Signifer means something like sign-bearer or sign-bringer. Similarly to how Luci-fer is translated into Lightbringer or bringer of the light. Does the game recognise you as a hellknight even if you are on the path of a signifer? Like.. does Regill consider you a peer etc? Because then at least this pretty average class could have a little thematic pull (taking a level - keeping your full spellcaster status just to get the special dialogues). Actually inmo the average attack bonuses might also matter - if you turn a low attack full caster like a sorcerer or witch into a sigifer then into an eldritch knight you can get a bonus on touch attack spells. Still only average as it is not that great (Probably just 1 bonus unless you go legend) but it might mean a little boost to some builds. On the other hand signifers as a crusade unit are insane. probably on par with the mage generals.
Haha I commented on your livestream the other night asking for you to be nice to loremaster and you didn't upset. Its my belief its the strongest prestige class in the game for many reasons. It is a dipping class that you get to choose how many levels you want to dedicate to it. Theres very few classes that allow you to do that as most have hard requirements of "I must level this many in this class in order to get X". Loremaster is like "you can take 1 3 5 7 or 9 levels in me depending on what you need or want to do". Its amazing because of that. Common spell pickups I take are Greater Command on arcane casters, Sirocco or Icy Prison Mass on divine casters, Creeping Doom in anyone that doesnt get access to it because its a flat out busted spell, Precise Shot on anyone who plans on using any type of ray so it saves you a feat of not having to get point blank shot, and Improved Critical on classes that have low BAB like wizard/sorcerer (id almost say this is mandatory if you plan on doing a wizard or sorcerer trickster). Another sleeper spell I took recently was on my court poet I took a 1 level dip around level 7 for barkskin, that way I could get away without running a divine class for the buff (that particular run I wasn't running an oracle druid ranger or shaman, so barkskin was missing in my setup). Its an amazing line.
Hellknight signifier is so goddamn awesome for my arcane spellcasters mixed with Eldtrich Knight. So much fun bashing demon skulls with my heavy mace in Asmodeus name. Medium armor is the way to go for me as there's ALOT of mithral medium armor. Yeah I agree on true seeing on this class cause by the time you get to that point you already have a true seeing spell as I mostly stop once I get medium armor training. Also don't bother using warrior priest cause it's really pointless for this class as this class has major benefits for arcane spell casters with the gate order like witch(which I mostly pick for my Asmodeus run) or wizard or sorcerer.
Hellknight Signifer can be used to get 16 base attack bonus and level 19 arcane caster level, which lets you get 4 attacks and level 9 arcane spells with a full arcane caster. You can go 6 arcanist or sorcerer or witch or wizard/10 Eldritch Knight/4 Hellknight Signifer to get 16 BAB and 19 caster levels. With witch or wizard, you can also go 5 witch/wizard / 1 fighter / 10 EK / 4 HS to get 16 BAB and level 9 spells.
You can do that one better. 5 Wizard/5 Hellknight/10 Eldritch Knight. Gets you the same BAB, but slightly more hitpoints (and the option to wear Heavy Armor).
@@PsychCaptain Erm, no, that would completely gimp spellcasting. Also, HS gives heavy armour proficiency and allows you to use it without spell failure. HK does not. It requires you to have the proficiency, so you would have to take an extra 3 feats, or take a martial class. This is enormously wasteful, and a very significant downgrade over HS for an EK. And without wishing to be nit picky, its not the same BAB, its 17 BAB. But its absolutely not worth it.
Not sure why you would take 1 level of fighter in the build, but yes, its a good way to get 16 BAB without sacrificing further caster levels for EKs. Also, wearing mithril full plate with no spell failure is handy. It should be noted that replacing 4 levels of HS with 4 levels of LM, if you then take divine power and opportunist, will get you better AB, more damage per hit, and a 4th attack at full BAB (so long as you arent fighting solo). Still, if you dont want another short duration buff or want the armour, HS is useful.
@@PsychCaptain that sounds really stupid. Signifier has more benefits for spellcasters than hellknight as that one is more focused for fighters or paladins.
hellyeahknight! love to mix in. signifier is kind of a dissapointment ^^; i do love me my loremaster, if you make a regular wizard it is in my opinion just better than maxing wizard
As of right now (its always worked like this for me) Loremaster can choose spell categories more than once. Likely to be nerfed. Source: my current playthrough I have both shield of faith and crusaders edge on my Nenio from selecting “cleric spell” twice.
My intimidation build Hell Knight is a beast. Been playing thematically instead of for meta, but still doing quite respectable damage with my heavy flail. Im 9/5 Hell Knight/Armiger at the moment, after getting level 10 in Hell Knight, I plan on putting 5 in Bloodrager (Primalist or Rider).
Pretty sure the Hellknight Signifier's capstone works, even though there is no mask in the game. I could be wrong on this - it has been a long time since my Aeon run, but that is what I recall. Also, you have to have Lawful in your alignment for the Hellknight classes - True Neutral need not apply. Regarding Loremaster - you can get more than 1 spell from the same category, despite the description, e.g. you can add 4 cleric spells over the course of Loremaster. You can only get a combat feat once. The max rank of a spell you can add is level 8, on your last secret.
Hellknights are cool, LE tyrants are my preferred way to play evil and Hellknight and Signifier are both a great choice for that theme, it's too bad the additions to Devil mythic path didn't make the cut in the EE update if it had more content it'd be a go to for me. Loremaster is crazy strong and you can even get Trickster crit feats?!?!? Damn, far and away the best prestige class in the game.
I think you might overlooked a benefit of hellknight signifier. There is an armor in the game that increases the damage of elemental spells, so to be able to wear that armor is amazing for blasters. Otherwise one would need three feats to do the same thing (four if you dont take the background "Guard")
@@SlanderedGaming while i understand what you mean, in your class rankings you did mention that one of the advantages of a spontaneous caster is that they can get free spells with certain items like the ring of salamander, which ppl can buy at a vendor. the armor that i am talking about is the hide armor of elemental carnage, which is bought from a vendor in wintersun. everyone can get access to that armor and it adds 1 point of damage per die to any spell that deals fire, cold, electric or acid damage. i think it is worth mentioning, if the ring of salamander is also worth mentioning.
I personally think Hellknight Sig has good uses as a 5ish level dip. If you choose the Gate, in about 5 levels, you can wear Adamantine Full-Plate without ASF penalties. I like it for a death knight kinda feel for Lich, as they are allowed to be LE
Can anyone confirm that the Spellcasting Ability Score is of your base class with the Loremaster when you pick a spell as a secret? I.e. if you are a cleric, you'll use WIS for the bonus wizard spell you take.
hellknight would be amazing if heavy armor was actually good to decent. yet you can get higher AC unarmored with high dex then in full plate, which is a shame there are no skills that realy buff the effectiveness of heavy armor (and not not just by 2 or 3 AC, i mean like triple the AC of the armor to make it interesting)
@@SlanderedGaming guess mounted combat will be way beter anyway. free high AC and some extra attacks (and poseble trip) even if they will make heavy armor beter mounted will be still on a whole new level
I like the idea of the Hellknight, though I've never managed to have fun with a heavy armor build in any CRPG for some reason. Though I suppose making a Hellknight Signifier would kind of allow for an Iron-Man themed build 🤔
Been trying to figure out some sort of hell knight devil build think I'm going to try (1)Armiger (16)fearless leader (3)hell knight, cause i think they should have a horse
the capstone for hell knight signifier is applied without the helmet, there is a hellknight signifer helmet in the game files for the crusade unit but there is no way for you to get it yourself.
I really dont think hellknight is an S. A plain fighter with a 1 level dip in thug if you really care about fearsomeness is a lot stronger offensively (personally, having enemies run around like headless chickens isnt worth it unless you are confident of killing them with AoOs when try to flee, and in my experience, this is very often not the case, and pulling additional enemies can be disastrous). Onslaught lasts one round, making it inconsequential. RP wise, it might be appealing, but its not very good mechanically. I cannot think of any build that hellknight would be better for than some alternative. Signifer on the other hand, whilst also not great, has its uses. Most notably, its a medium BAB class with full spellcaster progression. This is definitely not useful for a divine caster, but can be a handy 4 level dip for an arcane caster. Lets say you want to hit 16 BAB for your 4th attack as an eldritch knight for example. Normally, this would require 2 levels of fighter, 8 in your caster class, and 10 EK, giving a caster level of 17. A signifer, on the other hand, can give you the +1 BAB needed from a 4 level dip at no cost to caster level progression, so a 4 signifer/10 EK/6 arcane caster gets 16 BAB and caster level 19. 4 levels in lore master to take divine power and opportunist will do more for you combat potential than the extra BAB from 4 levels of signifer, but certainly mythic paths get divine power, and only liches will easily get 24 hour divine power with such a build. Also, the armour is far from useless. Take order of the gate, and you can wear mithral full plate with no arcane failure penalty at all, and you only need to invest a single feat in arcane armour training to qualify for the prestige class (it gives you heavy armour, so you dont even need armour proficiency). +5 Mithral full plate equals archmage armour, whilst not using a mythic ability (which are very valuable for casters), and not requiring you to reach mythic rank 10 to get the full benefit from. Unarmoured tanks are superior mainly because they pump dex, charisma and int with dips in classes that allow AC to scale with int and charisma. If you are a pure caster, or even an EK caster, you very likely are not taking scaled fist dips and several levels in duelist or sword saint, for example, nor will you have a particularly high dex. This would absolutely cripple your casting potential. Therefore, the armour is actually a significant buff to your AC at no significant cost beyond the feat you need to qualify for the class anyway. Beware regarding loremaster feats. Even if you can take a feat, it often doesnt function without the prerequisite feat. Not sure about greater vital strike, but apparently, improved cleaving finish wont work without cleaving finish, for example. Its a very useful prestige class overall.
Hell knight are like anti chaos paladins, which is pretty cool. Signifiers kinda suck, which is sad as they have some pretty cool flavor. Loremaster is probably the best class for wizards.
I always wondered why everyone says Signif*i*er and not Signifer. Everyone adds an i in there, but I can't find any official place where they write it like that. What is up with that? Is it the canon way of saying the word despite the spelling?
Loremaster is the best prestige class in WOTR with no contest. Currently running Demon wizard with Greater Vital Strike, which I got on level 6, allowing me to be competent enough in melee damage while also having full arcane spell progression. You can also add divine power and greater command which are strictly better than arcane options or mage armor to get that 14 AC if you're a divine caster.
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Greetings Everyone! Quick correction for this video. Looks like Hellknight Signifier's capstone ability is implemented in the game it's just the mask that is not. So the boost is automatically applied to you without the mask. I still don't think the class is worth it but wanted to make sure that distinction is clear. Thank you!
As of the recent patches, Loremaster can also take the trickster Improved crit line of feats for rogue and fighter secrets WITHOUT the mythic path. So you can be demon or angel and still pick up a nice 15+ crit range with a normal crit on 20 weapon.
THAT'S CRAZY!! Wow didn't know that.
That's bonkers. I'm gonna try it out
So basically Loremaster is by far the most OP class in the game. Jesus Christ.
That's bananas.
I love it.
Have you actually tried this, or have you heard? Because firstly, I am pretty sure that was patched, 2ndly, its 2 feats for the threat range and another feat for the multiplier, and you can only take 1 combat feat, so even if they have reverted the bug fix, I dont see how this is possible.
Loving Hellknights. The image of angry yet cold-blooded lawyer who can talk himself out of any situation is dope af. Let alone spiky and razory black armor and pyromania. Also, you might underrate Signifier - try to look at him as a melee/casting class, trying to build it from Witch/Fighter multiclass rn and it turns out pretty angry.
Nice I might have to give them a whirl in a build one day.
Thanks for continuing this series! I have always been torn if some of the prestige classes were really worth it. Your videos have been a big help!
My pleasure!
One excellent choice for a Loremaster wizard/sorcerer/arcanist is creeping doom, which has to be the most powerful druid spell out there. Can utterly end encounters since, surprisingly most demons are not immune to nauseated or ability damage. Very nice to crack out when freedom of movement or immunity to mind-affecting spells is ruining your casters' day.
Loremaster: The biggest downside I have with the class is more an issue with the UI. When you're selecting a spell from another class list, it doesn't have a pop up to say what lists the spells are available on, and I don't think it details what the spells do, either on that menu. This means that particular level up takes *forever*, as I'm scrolling through the wiki for every spell that sounds useful, trying to determine if it's worth grabbing, or if I'm tossing away a level up.
That said, grabbing "Harm" as a wizard gone Lich is fantastic. Tons of damage or heals, all you need is to apply the Reach metamagic to it so you aren't walking up into close quarters combat. I also recommend grabbing Precise Shot as a feat from Loremaster. No need to blow 2 feat choices from your progression to shoot spells into melee when this option is available.
I love hellknight because you can take a dip of it with paladin and double you bonuses against chaotic evil enemies, which most demons are. (at least it worked that way last time I played)
As always wonderful content and video.
Loremaster used to be way way stronger because it gave you access to trickster specific feats letting you stack additional crit chance which was crazy getting a falchion (normally 18-20 x2) down to 13-20 x4 The absurdity was wonderfully hilarious but patched out.
I am so sorry I missed that. Probably could've made some hilarious builds. 😂
It's back just did it this week on my current playthru wenduag with 9 throwing axes at 15-20 x3 crit is nuts. Also feels OP with my bomb build.
@@qephire2691 lmao seriously, they said they patched it and I never verified figuring they did lmao.
@@thecombativemedic521 I'm fine with them leaving it in, it's a single player game. I quit Pillars of Eterinity 2 because of the nerfs.
Hi there Slandered , thanks for the super informative vids,!! Just got into WOTR and you have some great content on that game !!! On thing i don't understand and really hope you can help with is : I just tried Crpg Bro's Ember Loremaster build but there just isn't Greater Command in the list of cleric Spells...She's at level 10 (so 9 Stigmatized and 1 LoreM- raised Chatisma only)...how's that possible ? Also I just tried this yesterday but I know they released a pretty huge patch. Do you think that's the reason and they nerfed the spell list? Or am I doing anything wrong here ? Much appreciated if you have any insight.as I was really looking forward to that build :/
Good question. They added a ton of new spells but I am not sure if they changed where any of the spells are now located. I would recommend looking at Sosiel or making your own cleric mercenary up to level 10 and see if they get Greater Command to determine if it should be available at that level.
@@SlanderedGaming thanks for taking the time to answer this , appreciated it :) I have Sosiel at level 10 in my party and he does have greater command as a level 5 Spell. To be honest I just gave up on getting greater command on ember at that stage and took Haste from the wizard school instead. If you ever have an idea about this do let me know please :) Keep the great vids coming! :)
Personally, I'd give Hellknight an S++, it's powerful, it has many build opportunities, it has many dialogue options, it looks REALLY COOL, it's thematically really cool, i like roleplay of it, AND i love devils in Pathfinder/D&D, + in real life, i follow similar way of thinking (the end justifies the means and, cold calculations, law, and efficiency over the goodness/morality).
It's a class specially made for me xD.
😂 Awesome!
Just a small correction: Signi-fer not signi-fier. Signifer means something like sign-bearer or sign-bringer. Similarly to how Luci-fer is translated into Lightbringer or bringer of the light.
Does the game recognise you as a hellknight even if you are on the path of a signifer? Like.. does Regill consider you a peer etc? Because then at least this pretty average class could have a little thematic pull (taking a level - keeping your full spellcaster status just to get the special dialogues). Actually inmo the average attack bonuses might also matter - if you turn a low attack full caster like a sorcerer or witch into a sigifer then into an eldritch knight you can get a bonus on touch attack spells. Still only average as it is not that great (Probably just 1 bonus unless you go legend) but it might mean a little boost to some builds.
On the other hand signifers as a crusade unit are insane. probably on par with the mage generals.
Thanks. Should be correct in today's video. I have never played Signifer but I assume it does not work differently.
@@SlanderedGaming If it is any comfort I misread it the first few times too :D
Wait wat
No way, I am dead certain it has always been spelled Signi-fier.
Am I in the Bearenstein Universe? I don't know what is real any more
Haha I commented on your livestream the other night asking for you to be nice to loremaster and you didn't upset. Its my belief its the strongest prestige class in the game for many reasons. It is a dipping class that you get to choose how many levels you want to dedicate to it. Theres very few classes that allow you to do that as most have hard requirements of "I must level this many in this class in order to get X". Loremaster is like "you can take 1 3 5 7 or 9 levels in me depending on what you need or want to do". Its amazing because of that.
Common spell pickups I take are Greater Command on arcane casters, Sirocco or Icy Prison Mass on divine casters, Creeping Doom in anyone that doesnt get access to it because its a flat out busted spell, Precise Shot on anyone who plans on using any type of ray so it saves you a feat of not having to get point blank shot, and Improved Critical on classes that have low BAB like wizard/sorcerer (id almost say this is mandatory if you plan on doing a wizard or sorcerer trickster). Another sleeper spell I took recently was on my court poet I took a 1 level dip around level 7 for barkskin, that way I could get away without running a divine class for the buff (that particular run I wasn't running an oracle druid ranger or shaman, so barkskin was missing in my setup). Its an amazing line.
Yup I have definitely learned to appreciate Loremaster.
Hellknight signifier is so goddamn awesome for my arcane spellcasters mixed with Eldtrich Knight. So much fun bashing demon skulls with my heavy mace in Asmodeus name. Medium armor is the way to go for me as there's ALOT of mithral medium armor. Yeah I agree on true seeing on this class cause by the time you get to that point you already have a true seeing spell as I mostly stop once I get medium armor training. Also don't bother using warrior priest cause it's really pointless for this class as this class has major benefits for arcane spell casters with the gate order like witch(which I mostly pick for my Asmodeus run) or wizard or sorcerer.
Yeah I don't think it makes as much sense for divine casters.
Haven't seen the video yet but already slapping like button
Thank you!
Hellknight Signifer can be used to get 16 base attack bonus and level 19 arcane caster level, which lets you get 4 attacks and level 9 arcane spells with a full arcane caster. You can go 6 arcanist or sorcerer or witch or wizard/10 Eldritch Knight/4 Hellknight Signifer to get 16 BAB and 19 caster levels. With witch or wizard, you can also go 5 witch/wizard / 1 fighter / 10 EK / 4 HS to get 16 BAB and level 9 spells.
You can do that one better. 5 Wizard/5 Hellknight/10 Eldritch Knight. Gets you the same BAB, but slightly more hitpoints (and the option to wear Heavy Armor).
@@PsychCaptain Hellknight does not increase caster level so you won't be able to cast level 9 or level 8 spells with that build.
@@PsychCaptain Erm, no, that would completely gimp spellcasting. Also, HS gives heavy armour proficiency and allows you to use it without spell failure. HK does not. It requires you to have the proficiency, so you would have to take an extra 3 feats, or take a martial class. This is enormously wasteful, and a very significant downgrade over HS for an EK. And without wishing to be nit picky, its not the same BAB, its 17 BAB. But its absolutely not worth it.
Not sure why you would take 1 level of fighter in the build, but yes, its a good way to get 16 BAB without sacrificing further caster levels for EKs. Also, wearing mithril full plate with no spell failure is handy.
It should be noted that replacing 4 levels of HS with 4 levels of LM, if you then take divine power and opportunist, will get you better AB, more damage per hit, and a 4th attack at full BAB (so long as you arent fighting solo). Still, if you dont want another short duration buff or want the armour, HS is useful.
@@PsychCaptain that sounds really stupid. Signifier has more benefits for spellcasters than hellknight as that one is more focused for fighters or paladins.
hellyeahknight! love to mix in. signifier is kind of a dissapointment ^^;
i do love me my loremaster, if you make a regular wizard it is in my opinion just better than maxing wizard
Yeah I definitely see that now.
As of right now (its always worked like this for me) Loremaster can choose spell categories more than once. Likely to be nerfed.
Source: my current playthrough I have both shield of faith and crusaders edge on my Nenio from selecting “cleric spell” twice.
Wow that definitely sounds like something they will nerf. 😂😂
My intimidation build Hell Knight is a beast. Been playing thematically instead of for meta, but still doing quite respectable damage with my heavy flail.
Im 9/5 Hell Knight/Armiger at the moment, after getting level 10 in Hell Knight, I plan on putting 5 in Bloodrager (Primalist or Rider).
Nice that should definitely work.
Pretty sure the Hellknight Signifier's capstone works, even though there is no mask in the game. I could be wrong on this - it has been a long time since my Aeon run, but that is what I recall. Also, you have to have Lawful in your alignment for the Hellknight classes - True Neutral need not apply. Regarding Loremaster - you can get more than 1 spell from the same category, despite the description, e.g. you can add 4 cleric spells over the course of Loremaster. You can only get a combat feat once. The max rank of a spell you can add is level 8, on your last secret.
That's corrected in today video. Thanks!
Hellknights are cool, LE tyrants are my preferred way to play evil and Hellknight and Signifier are both a great choice for that theme, it's too bad the additions to Devil mythic path didn't make the cut in the EE update if it had more content it'd be a go to for me. Loremaster is crazy strong and you can even get Trickster crit feats?!?!? Damn, far and away the best prestige class in the game.
Yeah I am a fan.
I did loremaster with enlighten oracle. It was fun.
I think you might overlooked a benefit of hellknight signifier. There is an armor in the game that increases the damage of elemental spells, so to be able to wear that armor is amazing for blasters.
Otherwise one would need three feats to do the same thing (four if you dont take the background "Guard")
That's true but I tried to make the rankings more generally and not revolve around one particular item.
@@SlanderedGaming while i understand what you mean, in your class rankings you did mention that one of the advantages of a spontaneous caster is that they can get free spells with certain items like the ring of salamander, which ppl can buy at a vendor.
the armor that i am talking about is the hide armor of elemental carnage, which is bought from a vendor in wintersun. everyone can get access to that armor and it adds 1 point of damage per die to any spell that deals fire, cold, electric or acid damage.
i think it is worth mentioning, if the ring of salamander is also worth mentioning.
I personally think Hellknight Sig has good uses as a 5ish level dip. If you choose the Gate, in about 5 levels, you can wear Adamantine Full-Plate without ASF penalties. I like it for a death knight kinda feel for Lich, as they are allowed to be LE
Nice that does sound good.
So disappointed with the Hellknight Signifier, not only it is a suboptimal class but it's not even working properly...
Yeah I don't think it's worth it unfortunatgely.
Judging by the handling of assassin, Owlcat likely won’t fix it any time soon.
I like the loremaster secrets
wish I could pick spells from the same class more than once 😈
Supposedly some of the categories do allow you to double dip.
Can anyone confirm that the Spellcasting Ability Score is of your base class with the Loremaster when you pick a spell as a secret? I.e. if you are a cleric, you'll use WIS for the bonus wizard spell you take.
Excellent series. Not a fan of multi-classing or prestige classes in general but interesting nonetheless
Glad you enjoyed it!
hellknight would be amazing if heavy armor was actually good to decent. yet you can get higher AC unarmored with high dex then in full plate, which is a shame there are no skills that realy buff the effectiveness of heavy armor (and not not just by 2 or 3 AC, i mean like triple the AC of the armor to make it interesting)
Supposedly Owlcat is going to do an update that makes Heavy Armor builds more viable.
@@SlanderedGaming guess mounted combat will be way beter anyway. free high AC and some extra attacks (and poseble trip) even if they will make heavy armor beter mounted will be still on a whole new level
I like the idea of the Hellknight, though I've never managed to have fun with a heavy armor build in any CRPG for some reason.
Though I suppose making a Hellknight Signifier would kind of allow for an Iron-Man themed build 🤔
I liked my heavy armor shotgun specialist in Wasteland 3. That was about it. LOL
Been trying to figure out some sort of hell knight devil build think I'm going to try (1)Armiger (16)fearless leader (3)hell knight, cause i think they should have a horse
I keep hearing that Regill is much better with a horse but I haven't tried it yet. That breakdown should work well.
the capstone for hell knight signifier is applied without the helmet, there is a hellknight signifer helmet in the game files for the crusade unit but there is no way for you to get it yourself.
Thanks this is reflected in today's final list.
@@SlanderedGaming No problem.
I love owlcat but sometimes they make weird choices I dont get
I really dont think hellknight is an S. A plain fighter with a 1 level dip in thug if you really care about fearsomeness is a lot stronger offensively (personally, having enemies run around like headless chickens isnt worth it unless you are confident of killing them with AoOs when try to flee, and in my experience, this is very often not the case, and pulling additional enemies can be disastrous). Onslaught lasts one round, making it inconsequential. RP wise, it might be appealing, but its not very good mechanically. I cannot think of any build that hellknight would be better for than some alternative.
Signifer on the other hand, whilst also not great, has its uses. Most notably, its a medium BAB class with full spellcaster progression. This is definitely not useful for a divine caster, but can be a handy 4 level dip for an arcane caster. Lets say you want to hit 16 BAB for your 4th attack as an eldritch knight for example. Normally, this would require 2 levels of fighter, 8 in your caster class, and 10 EK, giving a caster level of 17. A signifer, on the other hand, can give you the +1 BAB needed from a 4 level dip at no cost to caster level progression, so a 4 signifer/10 EK/6 arcane caster gets 16 BAB and caster level 19.
4 levels in lore master to take divine power and opportunist will do more for you combat potential than the extra BAB from 4 levels of signifer, but certainly mythic paths get divine power, and only liches will easily get 24 hour divine power with such a build.
Also, the armour is far from useless. Take order of the gate, and you can wear mithral full plate with no arcane failure penalty at all, and you only need to invest a single feat in arcane armour training to qualify for the prestige class (it gives you heavy armour, so you dont even need armour proficiency). +5 Mithral full plate equals archmage armour, whilst not using a mythic ability (which are very valuable for casters), and not requiring you to reach mythic rank 10 to get the full benefit from.
Unarmoured tanks are superior mainly because they pump dex, charisma and int with dips in classes that allow AC to scale with int and charisma. If you are a pure caster, or even an EK caster, you very likely are not taking scaled fist dips and several levels in duelist or sword saint, for example, nor will you have a particularly high dex. This would absolutely cripple your casting potential. Therefore, the armour is actually a significant buff to your AC at no significant cost beyond the feat you need to qualify for the class anyway.
Beware regarding loremaster feats. Even if you can take a feat, it often doesnt function without the prerequisite feat. Not sure about greater vital strike, but apparently, improved cleaving finish wont work without cleaving finish, for example. Its a very useful prestige class overall.
Greater vital strike does work without its predecessors.
Agreed, I raised Signifer up in the final list.
you do not need to wear a (non existent) mask as hellfire signifier. the cap stone bonuses always apply
Sadly Loremaster ist still bugged for Crossblooded Sorcerers and doesnt offer the option to choose spells as secrets. At all.
Yikes that is definitely unfortuantely.
I'm totally going lore master
Hell knight are like anti chaos paladins, which is pretty cool. Signifiers kinda suck, which is sad as they have some pretty cool flavor. Loremaster is probably the best class for wizards.
Yeah doing this made me really come to appreciate Loremaster.
I always wondered why everyone says Signif*i*er and not Signifer. Everyone adds an i in there, but I can't find any official place where they write it like that. What is up with that? Is it the canon way of saying the word despite the spelling?
Very likely I am pronouncing it wrong. Just sounds better to me.
Loremaster is the best prestige class in WOTR with no contest. Currently running Demon wizard with Greater Vital Strike, which I got on level 6, allowing me to be competent enough in melee damage while also having full arcane spell progression.
You can also add divine power and greater command which are strictly better than arcane options or mage armor to get that 14 AC if you're a divine caster.
Yep - Extended Divine Power cast at level 25 lasts all day.
Does the Hellknight Signifier get the same unique roleplay dialogue as a normal Hell Knight?
Yes it does.
@@SlanderedGaming Hmm.... Grey Knight build seems promising then
Loremaster - the class that the wizards girlfriend tells him not to worry about.
😂
i'm wondering if a legend with hellknight and hellknight signifier is a good combination 🤔.
Probably not mechanically but it would be funny. LOL
Don´t think Helllknight is worth it. Loremaster is nice.