I still wanna do one of those. I ended up doing a Champion of the Faith Warpriest for my Angel run but I still want a run w a merged angel spellbook. Cant decide if I want to do a Crusader (similar in concept to warpriest but more spellcasting and less combat ability), an Oracle and just go all in on spellcasting, or do something w a Shaman
Ecclesithiurge is an incredible cleric archetype, and it doesn't quite work the way it is described. It says you can select a primary and secondary domain each day, but the way it is implemented it is actually even better than this (and not explained at all): -You can put the spells from ANY of your deity's domains into your domain slots. As a priest of Erastil, this grants you the ability to put Barkskin in a domain slot, even if you haven't taken Plant as a domain. This removes the need for a nature-based caster in your party. So as an Ecclesitheuge, you gain roughly six or so domains' worth of spells out of the gate, which grows as you take impossible domains. -Spells from your primary domains can be used in your normal spells slots. This can be incredible, particularly since when you take an Impossible Domain as a mythic ability, that domain counts as primary, and unlocks all the spells for free use in any slot. This is MUCH better than any single other type of cleric can get or do. You will gain access to some spells normally only available to arcane or nature casters, or even some bard and paladin spells this way, which you can put into your normal slots. This synergizes well with a Loremaster dip, letting you take the last couple of spells you can't get this way, to make you the most comprehensive spellcaster in the game. You are virtually a Mystic Theurge without having to be a Mystic Theurge. It is worth repeating that no other cleric can put any of their domain spells into normal slots (unless their domain spell is, boringly, already a cleric spell for that level), making Ecclesitheurge unique in this regard. -Blessing of the Faithful can be amazing for the first half of the game, and still has niche uses later on. Cast it on yourself or a party member before a skill check for +2 to the skill (very useful at the start of a conversation that has a lot of persuasion checks). Cast it on your pet/ tank for +2 AC, which early game can be the difference between being hit on a 17-20 to being hit on only a nat-20, improving your tanking experience considerably. The short version has infinite uses, so if your cleric has nothing else to do, they can do that. By late game, you can prebuff the long version before a pull and it lasts the whole fight. It is worth noting that its attack bonus doesn't stack with either guarded hearth or touch of good, so don't try and use them together. -Domains are so. Freaking. Good. And as I have mentioned, these guys already get more benefits from the domains than anyone else, in the fact they can cast the domain spells more often. But its worth mentioning that if you have domain zealot, you can ALSO be using a domain power every turn, in addition to everything else. Since you're likely to be geared more toward casting with this archetype, you should have more domain uses (due to stacking more in your casting stat). For those not familiar with domains, you can reasonably expect to stack +22 or even more to attack from domain effects, which makes a mockery of basically any other buff in the game. -You cannot wear armor, but you do still have the same BAB as any other cleric (Crusader included), so there is nothing that would stop you from building as some kind of melee gish (as I did for my last Legend character). You can take a monk dip (you have massive wisdom anyway) and use mythic shenanigans to gain all the AC you need to be on the front line. You can take up to 3 levels in other classes and still get 9th level spells. As a Legend or Angel you would still get to L25 casting for 24h per-round spells. -They make amazing support mercenaries (Erastil for deity, of course), as they fill the role of tank (via pet), heals (they are a cleric), nature caster (they have bark skin and can pick up other druid-only spells via domains), and support (it would take a while for a bard to beat +2 bonus to attack, skills, saves and AC, and the Ecclesitheurge even can learn some bard spells such as Heroism and Brilliant Inspiration via the nobility domain). They only really suck at dps and you could probably build them to be not bad at that either. (And edit to add: If you think about it, an ecclesitheurge with the Nobility domain will have Greater Heroism for +4 morale bonus to attack, Blessing of the Faithful for a +2 sacred bonus, the nobility domain power party buff for +2 insight to attack and AC, making them much stronger as a support than a bard and actually almost on par with a skald. That's not even counting visions of madness or guarded hearth, which they probably also have. And in addition to this they are also a full cleric.) -Edit: Oh, and I forgot to mention they are the only cleric with the bonded holy symbol feature, letting them restore any single spell once a day. Think of this as the one spell you wish you had more casts of, except now you do. I often find on my Erastil eccly mercs, you want an extra cast of bark skin. If you were another cleric archetype, you'd be out of luck, but the Ecclesitheurge can just pop his holy symbol and get the spell back. Anyway, massive Ecclesitheurge fanboy here.
Wanted to add my thanks as well. I prefer spontaneous casters, so I don't need to be psychic with what I'll want the next day, but you've sorely tempted me to try an eccy one of these days. Sounds a lot of fun.
@@jamesnewman7509 No worries! My take on ecclesitheurge is that it is the ultimate cleric if you plan on being a caster, and with some careful planning can take the role of many other caster types as well due to the fact it can pick up spells from pretty much all classes (they can be an ok blaster, passable crowd control if you specifically build for it and take things like weird and dominate monster; great buffer and support caster). If you have a single mercenary, I highly recommend it be an Erastil ecclesitheurge. The only spells I feel you will just not be able to get on it are: greater invisibility, haste, and sense vitals. Haste is not really needed if you are using the divine power spell instead (since the extra attack doesn't stack with haste), and even less so if you are an angel who gets a long lasting buff that grants divine power among other things. Greater invis wasn't working for a long time but thank goodness they fixed it, but it could be the one spell you let someone else cast, or you can loremaster dip to pick it up. Sense vitals is for if you plan on being a gish - you can pick it up via a loremaster dip. Pretty much anything else you'd want, you can get via domains.
Ecclesitheurge is a goddamn monster if you pick Gozerh. Not only do they get an animal but they can also pick weather and let me tell you weather is bonkers. Once you get Sirocco...then the real fun begins.
@@SlanderedGaming I know it's not optimal, but I once ran a Dhampir MC, and had a Priest of Balance as my main healer. They had decent Wis for spells, but also decent Cha and an Extra Channel feat or two. Basically I was using Channel to heal my party or MC, or to blast undead or even alive enemies for actually pretty good bursts early to mid game.
Sir Galahad it is.. Crusader sounds perfect for my first playthrough, a fighter with a bit more going on that meshes with the Angel mythic path, a perfect goody two shoes build..
As a cleric angel summoner with extend spell + the two enduring spell mythic options you can make your summons 24 hr duration tho, letting you properly buff them up, maybe that actually can make the higher level summons pretty powerful? Been thinking to try this out.
I think the Monster Tactician is still going to be a more effective summoner as all their summons get teamwork feats. Plus you still get a bunch of cleric goodies.
Angel significantly helps you as a summoner not just because of the extend ability but more so because of the amazing team wide buffs that path has access to.
Splendid essay! I was greatly informed on things I didn't know on my favorite dnd class! Not only valuable info for my video game, but my tabletop as well!
I think Ecclesithiurge is the stronger Angel but I personally think Crusader is the better choice. Either one is going to end up incredibly powerful more so than 99% of the other possible classes/mythics in the game. What makes Crusader better to me is the early game. Spellcasting is pretty weak initially with a limited number of spells per day. Once you level up, get abundant casting and get Angel spells this is less of an issue but the first part of the game can be rough. But, with Crusader you can have a character that is decent in combat and can us spells to supplement that, and then once you get Angel you can transition to more spellcasting. You will be a little after that point than if you just went Ecclesithiurge. But, I think it is worth it to make the early game more manageable.
While summons are not physically powerful, they add targets. I like to think of the summoning spells as distraction spells that force enemies to take up actions like other CC spells. Summoning a TIDE of creatures works really well in many boss battles and was clutch for me when battling Areshkegal (Nenio's quest boss).
@@SlanderedGaming I agree with the damage but their usefulness as soaking up damage as meat shields saves on healing spells and gives your DPS party members to wail on the enemies without much worry about retribution, especially if you use ranged DPS. However, I think you already stated Monster Tactician and Beast Tamer are the only real viable pure summoner classes in the game (paired with an evil Lich playthrough - fugghedaboutit! Done!). Druids can unlock more powerful summons but the other two archetypes summon quicker and more often. Thanks for your time and the hard work you put in! You're content has definitely helped me understand this game far better than I did! Keep up the great work!
Currently playing through kingmaker, so caveat that this might not apply to this game, but yeah, they’ve been invaluable for me. When I’m dealing with either a large group or a particularly powerful enemy, the first thing I tend to do is start spamming summons. After a round or two of that, pop haste, bless, etc. They chip away with small damage, but more importantly, they tie that enemy down and buy time for me to get my full complement of buffs up and running, so the real damage dealers can go do their job at peak efficiency.
It may seem obvious, but I didn't hear it said. Priest of Balance is a good choice if you are going Lich Path, even as a companion. I know, why not just take a cleric that channels negative energy? Well, in the beginning of the game, all your companions need to heal through positive energy, as does your main character (unless Dhampir). Second, if you are going Lich, it is well into mid-game before you can raise your first undead follower, and they slowly filter in thereafter. So, you will have to fill out the ranks with the normal companions, and these companions will still need healing. The Priest of Balance can go back and forth, healing your companions, and your undead, and receive the additional benefit of its Energy Equilibrium ability to increase their caster level by 2 for cure/inflict spells and an additional 1d6 for channel energy. When I started the game, I decided to go Lich path from the start (I took a wizard), and made a Priest of Balance as soon as I could in Kenebres, seeing the benefit of her Energy Equilibrium. She stayed with me the whole game. Just thought I'd mention this use. P.S. I decided to go Lich path in my first playthrough based on your recommendation in an early video you posted, because of the story! Thank you! Not an evil player by nature, but it is an awesome path for power and story. Highly recommend a playthrough at least once.
For the most part I have stayed away from Mythic recommendations because I don't want to repeat what's already been said in my 25 base classes video. But your point is definitely valid and probably should've been brought up for Priest of Balance.
Now I wouldn't recommend Priest of Balance for the main game, but if you're messing around in the Treasure of the Midnight Isles it can be very, very funny to do it with a PoB build that gets Mythic Channeling to occasionally set off negative energy bombs for gigantic AoE damage. Don't expect it to always work, but considering you still have the rest of your Cleric kit as well as Mystic Theurge as a multiclassing option it can be a really fun way to try out a totally different Cleric than what you're used to.
While Priest of Balance seemed thematically great for my Aeon Mystic Theurge of Nethys(for rp. i know it is mechanically lees than ideal) , doesn't Mystic Theurge limit the progression of the equilibrium ability?
Ooooooooh boy. Ecclesitheurge is the most terrifying archetype ever especially when you're a follower of Gozerh who go nuts with the powers of the storms like Sirocco. Duck and cover when you use weather cause it's chaotic when you use them.
The best part of Cleric is how versatile the build can be Favorite archtype has to go to either ecclesitheurge Gozreh (the better caster druid with tons of control, support and damage) or crusader Lamashtu (jinx+falchion weapon specialization+strength domain spell+madness domain zealot swift action = CLEAVE)
@@SlanderedGaming haha, it is! Also gets to be, “friend”, with the one who is helpful in my demon run as she sets up evil eye for the juicy jinx double damage. Took me like 2 weeks of trials and errors to done right, but it is *super* fun.
This week I started my Angel play through with a Priest of Balance. I love channel energy and love effecting large aoe at once. So far I have made it up to just before Lepers Smile and it has been great. I went True Neutral with Gozreh for the pet and he is on a horse. Everyone is getting horses this game. Char 17, Wis 16, STR 16 with a reach weapon. First Mythic ability is Dense Macabre for the additional casts of channel negative energy. So far I have 4 casts from it and 14 casts of cleric channel iirc. Human gets you selective channel and 1 level of extra channel at level1. 1 feat had to buy boon companion. The really weird thing about this archetype is that you have to invest differently for the channels vs the inflict spells. Personally I am not sure that it is even worth investing in spell penetration for the inflict spells as they burn spell slots and until later only hit 1 target while channel hits a huge area. I am considering taking a dip into Life Oracle like Daeran has to get the channel feat that gives temp hit points when healing party members to full and for more casts of channel. Even though these casts will be small they can activate equilibrium to buff the next negative channel while still providing some value.I intend to have Daeran in party as an evocation caster as well. There are several items that buff channels in the game including a cloak and the phylacteries of channeling which you can swap out if you want more damage or healing. I think that I will have quite a strong useful Angel MC. Important mythic abilities are negative energy ascendant element, mythic channel, mythical beast, and all of the abundant casting and extended duration ones. The biggest challenge here is which to pick first. Feats are mostly extra channel.
In general, sumons are even very good, especially at an unfair level of difficulty. They are just meat that tanks and sometimes punches even after rolling 20. Zacharius was recently hacked by skeletons and angels, while the main party stood aside, because he vanshot everyone with magic - to kill the living.
@@mediumvillain I've respeced him to a Dawnflower Anchorite (using the Call of the Wild mod). Currently Lv 9 overall. Everything I heard about MT sounds bad. He's a bit of everything and great in nothing.
One thing I would like to point out is glory domains touch of glory which gives a unique bonus to charisma equal to half the class level and another bonus to charisma skill checks At level 20, this gives a +5 to cha dc, paladin smite, and charisma ac units It’s the thing that pushes me to charisma casters It gives a +15 on charisma skill checks but such skill checks cancel touch of glory for the entire party
eccly to bring down the wrath of GAWD also i love how impossible domain opens the opportunity for an animal companion to any cleric, i had sosiel riding a dog in one playthru
An interesting argument to be made for both Angelfire and Balance clerics is to use them as a multiclass healer base. Mind you, from what you said about the number of uses, maybe this wouldn't work, but I remember that in Kingmaker I could get my Harrim and Tristian feats that would increase the number of times they could channel energy, so if those feats still exist, and if feats for multiclassed characters still work the way they worked in Kingmaker, then I think you could take Angelfire or Balance cleric as your base, then multiclass into Fighter at level 2 and just stay Fighter until you could no longer take the extra channel energy feat (I'm not sure what the cap was in Kingmaker, but I remember being able to take it multiple times) before going back to Cleric with a much larger health pool and some extra Fighter features depending on which archetype was selected. *EDIT* Disregard what I said lol I remembered doing a Kingmaker playthrough where I turned Harrim into a Stalwart Defender, and I thought I remembered being able to take Extra Channel as a bonus feat while I was leveling him as a Fighter, but I just loaded up Kingmaker to double check, and I was wrong! Bonus Combat feats only, which makes sense 😀
Whilst I do like Ecclesithurge, I think Erastil is a bit of a waste. Ecclesithurge is mainly about the domain spells, not the domain powers, and Erastil is really about the domain powers. The domain spells of either animal (naff) or community (they are nearly all baseline cleric spells), so these make for poor primary domains. I would rather take these with impossible domain on go with a deity whose primary domain spells are truly transformation. A demon ecclesiathurge of Lamashtu, for example, can take madness and get both phantasmal killer and weird, and with the demon mythic path, get extreme DCs, and debuff with visions of madness in the same round the shred the saves using aspect of the colloxus.
Ecclesithiurge is my go to when I want to play a cleric because of the ability to use domain spells like regular spells This is massive and it lets you have a lot of fun with completely silly builds :D The angelfire apostle was my healer in the DLC "through the ashes" more uses of channel energy is good when you have to limit the number of rests I wish I could do an evil angel cleric with negative channel energy also wish more feats to boost channel energy I haven't tried a crusader...yet 🥰
Now with able to use dex to enchanced crossbow damage, this class is very good, you don't need animal domain, just select a deity with 2 best domain and do range damage.
Interesting that you bring up Galahad. Did you know that though he was Lancelot's son, he was said to have surpassed even his father's loyalty and faith. He didn't just search for the Grail. He was also the only knight of the round table who could approach it. Touch it, and claim to have truly found it. Weapon Specialization would also make you a lot like a 4rth edition D&D cleric. [Who can do some pretty insane things in battle when built right, the higher level they go - even damage wise. Which is funny because Cleric is supposed to be a support role. Not a true Tank, or DPS machine] * It was more that players got good at learning WHEN to use their heals; and some of the later buffs made rolls where the DM goes: Uhm, wait... you're NOT supposed to be able to do that. For esctheclerge I would say more the lack of weapon proficiency is irrelevant because your spell ranks stop at level 17 - and there's no capstone ability preventing you from taking levels elsewhere. I'd go 3 ranks of Mutation Warrior and call it done. Since the last spell list rank has maybe one really useful ability as far as I can see; you could arguably leave off at Rank 8 and Maybe take 2 ranks in Primalist for Uncanny Dodge. That way you get a battle cleric that can't be caught flat footed, and can use any weapon or shield; plus cast a wide array of spells to buff themselves to infinity and D&D Beyond. (Possibly literally lol - also, don't blame me. I didn't name it...)
I love summoning but not so much in this game. Once I get through with this series I do plan to update all the old builds and will probably do a summoner build.
Depends on who you are romancing. If they are good aligned then I believe they will automatically break up with you after you rechoose Lich in the beginning Act 5. Otherwise just break up with them in the middle of Act 5 before you enter the Zigguraut for a final transformation. BTW I would recommend clearing Iz first before doing the transformation as it gives you a couple more people to help with it.
What did i hear? Anyone has ever played as the Red Prince? Joke aside, I've always been more interested in other characters in DOS2, and the Prince would rank last for me with Beast.
Probably Lohse. I found Sebille to be quite one-dimensional but efficient, but on the other hand Ifan's story becomes more and more interesting as time goes by. Fane's unique trait means you discover the story from a different point of view, which is refreshing. But yeah Lohse has always hit my sweet spot, with the duality of using her strength or trying to remain in control at all cost. I know the Prince story is nice and all, but his banter is kind of a dealbreaker for me, i find him more annoying than funny for the first part of the game. I do have a problem with arrogant characters.
It's not the most powerful option but from a thematic standpoint I would recommend Longsword so you can use Radiance. An Angel holding a +6 version of Radiance just looks so cool.
Crusader also has diminished spellcasting and you only get 5 feats - in my opinion this is definitely not S tier class. I really don't like Clerics when Oracle exists. I only have Cleric in my party when playing on unfair.
They get 10 levels of spells and you can use impossible domain if you want to make up for the domain you lose. Why do you call it diminished spellcasting? Two of those five feats can be Weapon Specialization which is only available to one other class and significantly increases your damage. Cleric/Angel buffs take care of your defense and attack. What's not to like? LOL
@@SlanderedGaming I don't call it diminished spellcasting - I only point out that Crusader loses one domain and also has one spell slot fewer which is really bad deal if you only get access to 5 bonus feats. You also rated Angelfire Apostle lower because of diminished spellcasting but you completely didn't mention about it when analyzing crusader but still considered it S tier.
@@SlanderedGaming Unfortunately you are not right. It's not shown how it has place with AA cleric archetype but if you check out spell progression for example at level 17 you will see that you have 0 9th level spell slots - you should have 1 at this level. TLDR: Crusader has hidden diminished spellcasting.
@@pawep2966 Yikes okay thank you for clarifying this. Definitely didn't pick that up when playing with the class but that would probably bring it down to an A or an A+. I still love it for combining with Angel spellbook and thematic reasons but yeah that's something I would've noted in the video.
Playing through as Angel Crusader right now, couldn't agree more.
I still wanna do one of those. I ended up doing a Champion of the Faith Warpriest for my Angel run but I still want a run w a merged angel spellbook. Cant decide if I want to do a Crusader (similar in concept to warpriest but more spellcasting and less combat ability), an Oracle and just go all in on spellcasting, or do something w a Shaman
@@mediumvillain pp😊pppp
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Ecclesithiurge is an incredible cleric archetype, and it doesn't quite work the way it is described. It says you can select a primary and secondary domain each day, but the way it is implemented it is actually even better than this (and not explained at all):
-You can put the spells from ANY of your deity's domains into your domain slots. As a priest of Erastil, this grants you the ability to put Barkskin in a domain slot, even if you haven't taken Plant as a domain. This removes the need for a nature-based caster in your party. So as an Ecclesitheuge, you gain roughly six or so domains' worth of spells out of the gate, which grows as you take impossible domains.
-Spells from your primary domains can be used in your normal spells slots. This can be incredible, particularly since when you take an Impossible Domain as a mythic ability, that domain counts as primary, and unlocks all the spells for free use in any slot. This is MUCH better than any single other type of cleric can get or do. You will gain access to some spells normally only available to arcane or nature casters, or even some bard and paladin spells this way, which you can put into your normal slots. This synergizes well with a Loremaster dip, letting you take the last couple of spells you can't get this way, to make you the most comprehensive spellcaster in the game. You are virtually a Mystic Theurge without having to be a Mystic Theurge. It is worth repeating that no other cleric can put any of their domain spells into normal slots (unless their domain spell is, boringly, already a cleric spell for that level), making Ecclesitheurge unique in this regard.
-Blessing of the Faithful can be amazing for the first half of the game, and still has niche uses later on. Cast it on yourself or a party member before a skill check for +2 to the skill (very useful at the start of a conversation that has a lot of persuasion checks). Cast it on your pet/ tank for +2 AC, which early game can be the difference between being hit on a 17-20 to being hit on only a nat-20, improving your tanking experience considerably. The short version has infinite uses, so if your cleric has nothing else to do, they can do that. By late game, you can prebuff the long version before a pull and it lasts the whole fight. It is worth noting that its attack bonus doesn't stack with either guarded hearth or touch of good, so don't try and use them together.
-Domains are so. Freaking. Good. And as I have mentioned, these guys already get more benefits from the domains than anyone else, in the fact they can cast the domain spells more often. But its worth mentioning that if you have domain zealot, you can ALSO be using a domain power every turn, in addition to everything else. Since you're likely to be geared more toward casting with this archetype, you should have more domain uses (due to stacking more in your casting stat). For those not familiar with domains, you can reasonably expect to stack +22 or even more to attack from domain effects, which makes a mockery of basically any other buff in the game.
-You cannot wear armor, but you do still have the same BAB as any other cleric (Crusader included), so there is nothing that would stop you from building as some kind of melee gish (as I did for my last Legend character). You can take a monk dip (you have massive wisdom anyway) and use mythic shenanigans to gain all the AC you need to be on the front line. You can take up to 3 levels in other classes and still get 9th level spells. As a Legend or Angel you would still get to L25 casting for 24h per-round spells.
-They make amazing support mercenaries (Erastil for deity, of course), as they fill the role of tank (via pet), heals (they are a cleric), nature caster (they have bark skin and can pick up other druid-only spells via domains), and support (it would take a while for a bard to beat +2 bonus to attack, skills, saves and AC, and the Ecclesitheurge even can learn some bard spells such as Heroism and Brilliant Inspiration via the nobility domain). They only really suck at dps and you could probably build them to be not bad at that either. (And edit to add: If you think about it, an ecclesitheurge with the Nobility domain will have Greater Heroism for +4 morale bonus to attack, Blessing of the Faithful for a +2 sacred bonus, the nobility domain power party buff for +2 insight to attack and AC, making them much stronger as a support than a bard and actually almost on par with a skald. That's not even counting visions of madness or guarded hearth, which they probably also have. And in addition to this they are also a full cleric.)
-Edit: Oh, and I forgot to mention they are the only cleric with the bonded holy symbol feature, letting them restore any single spell once a day. Think of this as the one spell you wish you had more casts of, except now you do. I often find on my Erastil eccly mercs, you want an extra cast of bark skin. If you were another cleric archetype, you'd be out of luck, but the Ecclesitheurge can just pop his holy symbol and get the spell back.
Anyway, massive Ecclesitheurge fanboy here.
Thank you for that breakdown! Yeah obviously I think the class is incredible as well.
Wanted to add my thanks as well. I prefer spontaneous casters, so I don't need to be psychic with what I'll want the next day, but you've sorely tempted me to try an eccy one of these days. Sounds a lot of fun.
@@jamesnewman7509 No worries! My take on ecclesitheurge is that it is the ultimate cleric if you plan on being a caster, and with some careful planning can take the role of many other caster types as well due to the fact it can pick up spells from pretty much all classes (they can be an ok blaster, passable crowd control if you specifically build for it and take things like weird and dominate monster; great buffer and support caster). If you have a single mercenary, I highly recommend it be an Erastil ecclesitheurge.
The only spells I feel you will just not be able to get on it are: greater invisibility, haste, and sense vitals. Haste is not really needed if you are using the divine power spell instead (since the extra attack doesn't stack with haste), and even less so if you are an angel who gets a long lasting buff that grants divine power among other things. Greater invis wasn't working for a long time but thank goodness they fixed it, but it could be the one spell you let someone else cast, or you can loremaster dip to pick it up. Sense vitals is for if you plan on being a gish - you can pick it up via a loremaster dip. Pretty much anything else you'd want, you can get via domains.
Excellent take on the Clerics. They are my favorite class - Crusader being my personal choice, they are amazing.
Ecclesitheurge is a goddamn monster if you pick Gozerh. Not only do they get an animal but they can also pick weather and let me tell you weather is bonkers. Once you get Sirocco...then the real fun begins.
Priest of Balance with pharasma deity going aeon was probably one of my personal favourites thematically, it felt pretty strong too!
Wow that's actually a really nice combo.
@@SlanderedGaming I know it's not optimal, but I once ran a Dhampir MC, and had a Priest of Balance as my main healer. They had decent Wis for spells, but also decent Cha and an Extra Channel feat or two. Basically I was using Channel to heal my party or MC, or to blast undead or even alive enemies for actually pretty good bursts early to mid game.
Been waiting for this one,cleric all the way, especially on "hard" difficulty.
Such an essential resource for understanding this wonderfully complex game.
Thank you! Glad you have found these valuable!
Sir Galahad it is..
Crusader sounds perfect for my first playthrough, a fighter with a bit more going on that meshes with the Angel mythic path, a perfect goody two shoes build..
As a cleric angel summoner with extend spell + the two enduring spell mythic options you can make your summons 24 hr duration tho, letting you properly buff them up, maybe that actually can make the higher level summons pretty powerful? Been thinking to try this out.
I think the Monster Tactician is still going to be a more effective summoner as all their summons get teamwork feats. Plus you still get a bunch of cleric goodies.
Angel significantly helps you as a summoner not just because of the extend ability but more so because of the amazing team wide buffs that path has access to.
Splendid essay! I was greatly informed on things I didn't know on my favorite dnd class!
Not only valuable info for my video game, but my tabletop as well!
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it!
3:41 disagree, fane feels like the canon choice
Nah he's only a close second. The ending is more fulfilling as him but the journey is much better as The Red Prince.
I think Ecclesithiurge is the stronger Angel but I personally think Crusader is the better choice. Either one is going to end up incredibly powerful more so than 99% of the other possible classes/mythics in the game. What makes Crusader better to me is the early game. Spellcasting is pretty weak initially with a limited number of spells per day. Once you level up, get abundant casting and get Angel spells this is less of an issue but the first part of the game can be rough.
But, with Crusader you can have a character that is decent in combat and can us spells to supplement that, and then once you get Angel you can transition to more spellcasting. You will be a little after that point than if you just went Ecclesithiurge. But, I think it is worth it to make the early game more manageable.
Cleric in 3.5 just busted.
Ecclisitheurge with Animal and Community domain is the core of every party I make. That plus a Sylvan Sorcerer. 👍
While summons are not physically powerful, they add targets. I like to think of the summoning spells as distraction spells that force enemies to take up actions like other CC spells. Summoning a TIDE of creatures works really well in many boss battles and was clutch for me when battling Areshkegal (Nenio's quest boss).
I agree they are great for defense but the damage is always underwhelming which is why I say they don't really change the tide of a fight.
@@SlanderedGaming I agree with the damage but their usefulness as soaking up damage as meat shields saves on healing spells and gives your DPS party members to wail on the enemies without much worry about retribution, especially if you use ranged DPS. However, I think you already stated Monster Tactician and Beast Tamer are the only real viable pure summoner classes in the game (paired with an evil Lich playthrough - fugghedaboutit! Done!). Druids can unlock more powerful summons but the other two archetypes summon quicker and more often.
Thanks for your time and the hard work you put in! You're content has definitely helped me understand this game far better than I did! Keep up the great work!
Currently playing through kingmaker, so caveat that this might not apply to this game, but yeah, they’ve been invaluable for me. When I’m dealing with either a large group or a particularly powerful enemy, the first thing I tend to do is start spamming summons. After a round or two of that, pop haste, bless, etc. They chip away with small damage, but more importantly, they tie that enemy down and buy time for me to get my full complement of buffs up and running, so the real damage dealers can go do their job at peak efficiency.
It may seem obvious, but I didn't hear it said. Priest of Balance is a good choice if you are going Lich Path, even as a companion. I know, why not just take a cleric that channels negative energy? Well, in the beginning of the game, all your companions need to heal through positive energy, as does your main character (unless Dhampir). Second, if you are going Lich, it is well into mid-game before you can raise your first undead follower, and they slowly filter in thereafter. So, you will have to fill out the ranks with the normal companions, and these companions will still need healing. The Priest of Balance can go back and forth, healing your companions, and your undead, and receive the additional benefit of its Energy Equilibrium ability to increase their caster level by 2 for cure/inflict spells and an additional 1d6 for channel energy. When I started the game, I decided to go Lich path from the start (I took a wizard), and made a Priest of Balance as soon as I could in Kenebres, seeing the benefit of her Energy Equilibrium. She stayed with me the whole game. Just thought I'd mention this use.
P.S. I decided to go Lich path in my first playthrough based on your recommendation in an early video you posted, because of the story! Thank you! Not an evil player by nature, but it is an awesome path for power and story. Highly recommend a playthrough at least once.
For the most part I have stayed away from Mythic recommendations because I don't want to repeat what's already been said in my 25 base classes video. But your point is definitely valid and probably should've been brought up for Priest of Balance.
Now I wouldn't recommend Priest of Balance for the main game, but if you're messing around in the Treasure of the Midnight Isles it can be very, very funny to do it with a PoB build that gets Mythic Channeling to occasionally set off negative energy bombs for gigantic AoE damage. Don't expect it to always work, but considering you still have the rest of your Cleric kit as well as Mystic Theurge as a multiclassing option it can be a really fun way to try out a totally different Cleric than what you're used to.
While Priest of Balance seemed thematically great for my Aeon Mystic Theurge of Nethys(for rp. i know it is mechanically lees than ideal) , doesn't Mystic Theurge limit the progression of the equilibrium ability?
Yes
@@mysticolin01 Right, which is why you go Legend, which is probably an important part of the post that I forgot. My bad.
Angel > Legend to be even more clear, so that you can keep the Angel spells in your spellbook from the merge.
That's an interesting combo thanks for bringing it up.
I currently in my first playthrough, I'm in act 3 with Mutaion Worrior, as Angel mythic path. I'll have to say, this video made me respec to Crusader.
Mutation Warrior is also an awesome option honestly. You are not going wrong either way.
Ecclesitheurge is absolutely fantastic.
Yup I am a big fan.
I bought the game the other day and just created a dwarven crusader. Very excited for the deep dive.
Awesome glad you enjoyed it.
Ooooooooh boy. Ecclesitheurge is the most terrifying archetype ever especially when you're a follower of Gozerh who go nuts with the powers of the storms like Sirocco. Duck and cover when you use weather cause it's chaotic when you use them.
The best part of Cleric is how versatile the build can be
Favorite archtype has to go to either ecclesitheurge Gozreh (the better caster druid with tons of control, support and damage) or crusader Lamashtu (jinx+falchion weapon specialization+strength domain spell+madness domain zealot swift action = CLEAVE)
That Lamashtu option sounds FANTASTIC.
@@SlanderedGaming haha, it is! Also gets to be, “friend”, with the one who is helpful in my demon run as she sets up evil eye for the juicy jinx double damage. Took me like 2 weeks of trials and errors to done right, but it is *super* fun.
This week I started my Angel play through with a Priest of Balance. I love channel energy and love effecting large aoe at once. So far I have made it up to just before Lepers Smile and it has been great.
I went True Neutral with Gozreh for the pet and he is on a horse. Everyone is getting horses this game. Char 17, Wis 16, STR 16 with a reach weapon. First Mythic ability is Dense Macabre for the additional casts of channel negative energy. So far I have 4 casts from it and 14 casts of cleric channel iirc. Human gets you selective channel and 1 level of extra channel at level1. 1 feat had to buy boon companion.
The really weird thing about this archetype is that you have to invest differently for the channels vs the inflict spells. Personally I am not sure that it is even worth investing in spell penetration for the inflict spells as they burn spell slots and until later only hit 1 target while channel hits a huge area. I am considering taking a dip into Life Oracle like Daeran has to get the channel feat that gives temp hit points when healing party members to full and for more casts of channel. Even though these casts will be small they can activate equilibrium to buff the next negative channel while still providing some value.I intend to have Daeran in party as an evocation caster as well.
There are several items that buff channels in the game including a cloak and the phylacteries of channeling which you can swap out if you want more damage or healing.
I think that I will have quite a strong useful Angel MC. Important mythic abilities are negative energy ascendant element, mythic channel, mythical beast, and all of the abundant casting and extended duration ones. The biggest challenge here is which to pick first. Feats are mostly extra channel.
Nice! Seems like that subclass definitely has fans.
In general, sumons are even very good, especially at an unfair level of difficulty. They are just meat that tanks and sometimes punches even after rolling 20. Zacharius was recently hacked by skeletons and angels, while the main party stood aside, because he vanshot everyone with magic - to kill the living.
Eccly is indeed very good. Currently playing Kingmaker now and Tristian is very good.
one of the better options for a Mystic Theurge too. can make Tristian a nice blaster w Empyreal Sorcerer + Mystic Theurge
@@mediumvillain I've respeced him to a Dawnflower Anchorite (using the Call of the Wild mod). Currently Lv 9 overall.
Everything I heard about MT sounds bad. He's a bit of everything and great in nothing.
I've had fun with the angel fire cleric but I hadn't even thought about crusader... My altitis grows
😂
Just noticed both Cleric and Cavalier have Part 6 in the thumbnail...
Updated. Thank you!
One thing I would like to point out is glory domains touch of glory which gives a unique bonus to charisma equal to half the class level and another bonus to charisma skill checks
At level 20, this gives a +5 to cha dc, paladin smite, and charisma ac units
It’s the thing that pushes me to charisma casters
It gives a +15 on charisma skill checks but such skill checks cancel touch of glory for the entire party
Nice that is a good call out.
eccly to bring down the wrath of GAWD
also i love how impossible domain opens the opportunity for an animal companion to any cleric, i had sosiel riding a dog in one playthru
Oh yeah I take Impossible Domain for him multiple times.
An interesting argument to be made for both Angelfire and Balance clerics is to use them as a multiclass healer base.
Mind you, from what you said about the number of uses, maybe this wouldn't work, but I remember that in Kingmaker I could get my Harrim and Tristian feats that would increase the number of times they could channel energy, so if those feats still exist, and if feats for multiclassed characters still work the way they worked in Kingmaker, then I think you could take Angelfire or Balance cleric as your base, then multiclass into Fighter at level 2 and just stay Fighter until you could no longer take the extra channel energy feat (I'm not sure what the cap was in Kingmaker, but I remember being able to take it multiple times) before going back to Cleric with a much larger health pool and some extra Fighter features depending on which archetype was selected.
*EDIT*
Disregard what I said lol
I remembered doing a Kingmaker playthrough where I turned Harrim into a Stalwart Defender, and I thought I remembered being able to take Extra Channel as a bonus feat while I was leveling him as a Fighter, but I just loaded up Kingmaker to double check, and I was wrong!
Bonus Combat feats only, which makes sense 😀
Being reminded of Harrim makes me want to play Kingmaker again. I really hope there's time to circle back to it next year.
Whilst I do like Ecclesithurge, I think Erastil is a bit of a waste. Ecclesithurge is mainly about the domain spells, not the domain powers, and Erastil is really about the domain powers. The domain spells of either animal (naff) or community (they are nearly all baseline cleric spells), so these make for poor primary domains. I would rather take these with impossible domain on go with a deity whose primary domain spells are truly transformation. A demon ecclesiathurge of Lamashtu, for example, can take madness and get both phantasmal killer and weird, and with the demon mythic path, get extreme DCs, and debuff with visions of madness in the same round the shred the saves using aspect of the colloxus.
Nice that is a good combo as well.
As a fan of acquisitions incorporated, I kinda enjoy this greedy cleric who treats himself as a ceo to everyone in his party.
RED PRINCE BEING THE CANON CHOICE? My boy Fane wants to talk with ya.
Lmao not me being triggered for another game in a 5 month old vid, good stuff.
Also I know you just said "feels right" and I can agree with Red, but c'mon, Fane is even responsible for tons of shit that take place in DOS 2
😂😂😂
Ecclesithiurge is my go to when I want to play a cleric
because of the ability to use domain spells like regular spells
This is massive and it lets you have a lot of fun with completely silly builds :D
The angelfire apostle was my healer in the DLC "through the ashes"
more uses of channel energy is good when you have to limit the number of rests
I wish I could do an evil angel cleric with negative channel energy
also wish more feats to boost channel energy
I haven't tried a crusader...yet 🥰
Ecclesitheurge is definitely my favorite.
Now with able to use dex to enchanced crossbow damage, this class is very good, you don't need animal domain, just select a deity with 2 best domain and do range damage.
Priest of balance is my favorite since I play a dampir holy hunter with a death touch mastodon pet
Now I gotta make a god damn crusader.
Crusader works fantastic for Angel
been wanting to roleplay a crusader of gorum who steadily becomes corrupted by demonic influance
Damn whats this background music in the beginning?? It's so sick
Hope your daughter gets better soon. :) Sucks when the little ones are suffering .
Interesting that you bring up Galahad. Did you know that though he was Lancelot's son, he was said to have surpassed even his father's loyalty and faith. He didn't just search for the Grail. He was also the only knight of the round table who could approach it. Touch it, and claim to have truly found it. Weapon Specialization would also make you a lot like a 4rth edition D&D cleric. [Who can do some pretty insane things in battle when built right, the higher level they go - even damage wise. Which is funny because Cleric is supposed to be a support role. Not a true Tank, or DPS machine] * It was more that players got good at learning WHEN to use their heals; and some of the later buffs made rolls where the DM goes: Uhm, wait... you're NOT supposed to be able to do that.
For esctheclerge I would say more the lack of weapon proficiency is irrelevant because your spell ranks stop at level 17 - and there's no capstone ability preventing you from taking levels elsewhere. I'd go 3 ranks of Mutation Warrior and call it done. Since the last spell list rank has maybe one really useful ability as far as I can see; you could arguably leave off at Rank 8 and Maybe take 2 ranks in Primalist for Uncanny Dodge. That way you get a battle cleric that can't be caught flat footed, and can use any weapon or shield; plus cast a wide array of spells to buff themselves to infinity and D&D Beyond. (Possibly literally lol - also, don't blame me. I didn't name it...)
Nope didn't know that about Galahad. Thank you!
"I love Ecclesitheurge and believe it's awesome, but what will the King of the Game think..."?
S+ !
:D
😂😂
You can do some GAMING as a cleric.
I'm thinking of doing cleric of Desna, Azata path for pure rp purposes. Would Ecclesiatheurge still be worth it, or perhaps crusader?
Both are valid. Do you prefer a more martial route or a spellcasting route?
Are you into summoner type builds? I’d love to see a full lucrative build as a summoner please and thanks
I love summoning but not so much in this game. Once I get through with this series I do plan to update all the old builds and will probably do a summoner build.
@@SlanderedGaming why don’t you care for summons in this game?
Lich Question: When is a good time to break things off with your romance so you don't have to sacrifice them?
Depends on who you are romancing. If they are good aligned then I believe they will automatically break up with you after you rechoose Lich in the beginning Act 5. Otherwise just break up with them in the middle of Act 5 before you enter the Zigguraut for a final transformation. BTW I would recommend clearing Iz first before doing the transformation as it gives you a couple more people to help with it.
@@SlanderedGaming To help with the transformation? I didn't realize it was that involved. Thank you.
👍🏾👍🏾🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
What did i hear? Anyone has ever played as the Red Prince?
Joke aside, I've always been more interested in other characters in DOS2, and the Prince would rank last for me with Beast.
LOL Which one was your favorite?
Probably Lohse. I found Sebille to be quite one-dimensional but efficient, but on the other hand Ifan's story becomes more and more interesting as time goes by. Fane's unique trait means you discover the story from a different point of view, which is refreshing.
But yeah Lohse has always hit my sweet spot, with the duality of using her strength or trying to remain in control at all cost.
I know the Prince story is nice and all, but his banter is kind of a dealbreaker for me, i find him more annoying than funny for the first part of the game. I do have a problem with arrogant characters.
@@okagisama Yeah Lohse is awesome.
What weapon should I use for crusader guys?
It's not the most powerful option but from a thematic standpoint I would recommend Longsword so you can use Radiance. An Angel holding a +6 version of Radiance just looks so cool.
*cough* I am waiting for Stalwart Defender class.
Oh man you got a while. LOL
@@SlanderedGaming I won't need to if you forgoes the other class and just jump straight to Stalwart Defender w😉
Crusader also has diminished spellcasting and you only get 5 feats - in my opinion this is definitely not S tier class.
I really don't like Clerics when Oracle exists. I only have Cleric in my party when playing on unfair.
They get 10 levels of spells and you can use impossible domain if you want to make up for the domain you lose. Why do you call it diminished spellcasting? Two of those five feats can be Weapon Specialization which is only available to one other class and significantly increases your damage. Cleric/Angel buffs take care of your defense and attack. What's not to like? LOL
@@SlanderedGaming I don't call it diminished spellcasting - I only point out that Crusader loses one domain and also has one spell slot fewer which is really bad deal if you only get access to 5 bonus feats.
You also rated Angelfire Apostle lower because of diminished spellcasting but you completely didn't mention about it when analyzing crusader but still considered it S tier.
@@pawep2966 Crusader does not have Diminished Spellcasting.
@@SlanderedGaming Unfortunately you are not right. It's not shown how it has place with AA cleric archetype but if you check out spell progression for example at level 17 you will see that you have 0 9th level spell slots - you should have 1 at this level.
TLDR: Crusader has hidden diminished spellcasting.
@@pawep2966 Yikes okay thank you for clarifying this. Definitely didn't pick that up when playing with the class but that would probably bring it down to an A or an A+. I still love it for combining with Angel spellbook and thematic reasons but yeah that's something I would've noted in the video.