The Problem of Suffering: A Christian Response
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 พ.ค. 2021
- Why does God allow suffering? What could create a world with so much suffering help to accomplish? Can Christianity offer anything to explain how suffering is compatible with God?
I would like to thank the philosopher Justin Mooney for helping with the script and for Clay Jones and Trent Doughtery for reviewing the video.
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Sources:
Our Video on Evil: • The Problem of Evil: A...
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#Philosophy #Christianity #Jesus - บันเทิง
I lost my baby girl today... I rewatched this, and this is very helpful.
The Lord gave her to me, and the Lord took her away... blessed be the name of the Lord.
I pray God gives you his very self with joy and peace!!!?
Praying for grace
Sorry for your loss. She is in a better state, and one day you will see each other.
I'm so sorry to hear this. She is with God now, happy and at peace, I am positive about it! You just be the best person that God wants you to be and she will be very very happy when you reunite again. Just stay strong until you see each other again
@@justsomeguy6336
In a healthy democracy, atheists would be prohibited from voting. Someone too dumb to understand that God exists is barely smart enough to breathe on his' own. If not for the limbic system, they would suffocate.
"Jokes" aside, that was utterly apathetic. I do think some part of you thought it would be funny to poke fun at a mourning father. It wasn't. Please grow up and act like a proper man, being an atheist is not an excuse for being an asshole.
The last point,
He walked among us.
He knows our hurtings.
He felt our pain.
He feels *all* our pain.
He knows our yearnings before we utter them.
Glory be to his holy name.
If I recall correctly, it was Tim Keller who said something in the lines of; I don't know the reason why God allows suffering to happen, but after what Christ did for me, I know the reason is not because He doesn't love us.
among us
@@polarisnorth4875 how would you have done it?
@@polarisnorth4875 "let me tell an omniscient being how He should have done things".
@@polarisnorth4875 either you take him at his word that what he is doing is right and holy or else you're judging him. That was the exact same argument the devil himself was making against God and the destiny for his saints.
"Nothing is permanent in this wicked world, not even our troubles." Charlie Chaplin.
@imrankhan [x] being temporary puts it into it's proper context and perspective. The worst, most horrendous sufferings the world can throw at us, dissapear as a droplet in the ocean in comparison to Eternity with God, a state made possible by the character-bulding of enduring suffering in the first place.
It is not a coincidence that the less suffering in a country, the more atheist it becomes. Suffering allow us to grow up, and when we don't suffer, we stagnate in this moral/spiritual child-like state of atheism.
To suffer is an important aspect of life. You cannot be trully empathetic to someone if you have no way to relate to what he is going through. I think the most notable example, is your mother; she went through a lot so you could be here, the pregnancy is 9 months of pain, nausea, disconfort, lost sleep, etc, the labor is often described as THE most painful human experience other than some deliberate forms of torture, but the very moment you were out of her womb, she was already over all that pain, because it was worth it, because you were there. Ask her if she would go through it again for you, and you will understand why God allows suffering to exist.
I lost my baby girl today. The Lord gave her to me, and the Lord took her away. Blessed be the name of the Lord.
@imrankhan [x]
"[...] God didn't cause the death of a love one [...]"
The definition of "cause" in the debate of devine sovereignty is usually just a poor word play. God, by actualizing a universe where such a thing would happen, ultimately caused it. What is important is to ask "why". You see, God created these rules of nature, and created them with the perfect eternal future He wanted to share with us in mind; ironically, the same laws of physics, of chemistry, of biology, that took my daughter away, are the laws that allowed her to live in the first place, that allow me to live, and you to live. Sometimes, just sometimes, God makes an exception - we call them "miracles" - He chose not to make an exception this time, and I'm in peace with that, because I know my little Agatha is with Him, and I will see her again.
"[...] so God cant claim he took away anything [...]"
Again, the definition of "cause" is mere word play. God exhales life, God inhales it back.
"[...] So by this logic a child coming into this world has nothing to do with God in the active sense [...]"
I will say that I agree, to an extent. The laws of physics, of chemistry, of biology, etc, that allow a couple to procreate, were put in place by Him. He is the ultimate cause of everything, after all.
"[...] again your daughter merely arose from the natural consequence of sex. Is that right? God can't claim credit for either unless he wants to be directly responsible for both [...]"
Yes, but what are "natural consequences", if not the unfolding of the laws He set up in the first place, fully aware of how they would play out? He is responsible for both, this is what "God gave life, God took it away" means. You see, if God wants you to live, you will live; if you are shot in the head, the wound will heal, if you are infected by a lethal disease, it will be cured, even if you die, you will rise from the dead... there is absolutely no way that nature could kill you, if God didn't want you to leave this world at some point. Likewise, if God wants you to leave this world, no doctor will be able to heal you, no medicine will cure you, no treatment will have any effect. Nature is His' obedient servant.
"I get what you're trying to do with the mother stuff but I would rather not exist due to how life is"
Friend, we live in the best time to be alive in all of human history. The most peaceful time, the most healthy time, the most prosperous time... a poor person in a poor country lives better than kings of just a few centuries ago. And all data points to it getting better day after day. There is hope for tomorrow, rational hope.
"[...] and to a very personal trauma my mother inflicted on me at the est age of 5 that complicates my ability to be sexual and romantic with people [...]"
I would like to get into that with you. I know someone else with a very similar trauma, and helped him in the past. Maybe in a more private setting? Hit me up on Facebook, same name.
"[...] If it wasn't for law or the fact we're not physically close, she would've been in severe trouble [...]"
What would it take for you to forgive her? What if I told you, nah, prove to you, that this is the only way to heal?
@imrankhan [x] depression is on the rise as is atheism. It's an interesting phenomenom, data suggest that as a country get richer, ultimately suffering less, it secularizes more, then depression and suicide skyrocket. Almost seems like some suffering is a necessary part of the human experience that gives meaning to life, does it not? I can confirm; never have I ever been closer to God, than when I was in my lowest point in life... Dirt poor, unemployed for over a year, soaring debt, health wrecked... I had nothing else but God, and then I knew there was nothing else I needed; I gave my life into His' hands, and He fixed everything in a couple of years.
It's true that this problem is endemic in our time, and maybe even a product of the very wealth humanity accumulated, but put some lenses of perspective, I can't concede that you actually believe that "student debt" is something that devalues your life so much that you would rather not live it. If this is the case, you trully need to consider giving the gospels a read.
About forgiveness, it's quite the opposite. I have been on both sides; I both had to forgive the unforgivable, and had to be forgiven of the unforgivable. It was much easier to forgive the unforgivable, than to be forgiven... Because when you are the "target" of such Grace, it breaks you, your heart is broken to pieces, and the razor sharp shards of it must be picked up and reassembled into a better form than it was.
That's the nature of unconditional love; it makes us want to be worthy of it. God's perfect love brings perfect repentance, try and love your mother, as perfectly as you can, and this will kill her; at least the person who she is, and give birth to someone who is born again.
@imrankhan [x] positive atheism is a "none", you are right, but not all nones are positive atheists, nor even atheists per se. The majority of nones are in the "I don't really care / never thought it through" category, which by the way is the group Zuckerman included as "atheists" to claim Sweden is a majoritarily atheist country lol
Wiw ik was
My grandfather died a few days ago and this really helps
Prayers for you, lost my grandfather 2 years ago. Hit me hard, he was a really talented and influential person to me.
God feels your pain!
@@kerwinbrown4180, there’s only one TINY little problem with what you wrote above, Sir.☝️
There has never been, nor will there ever be, even the SLIGHTEST shred of evidence for the existence of the Godhead, that is, a Supreme Person or Deity.🤓
It is high time for humanity to awaken from all INANE superstitions such as the belief in a Personal God which created the Universe, would you not agree, Slave? 😩
@@TheWorldTeacher I took Philosophy 101 and there is no evidence of anything but I think, exist, and am self aware. All else we believe in by faith and I choose to believe in a benevolent God that will enable me to become more benevolent. You make your own choice.😁
@@kerwinbrown4180, well, Slave, we all have our own particular BELIEFS, but ultimately, there exists objective truth, which is not subject to our misconceptions and misunderstandings.
One who has transcended mundane relative truth is said to be an ENLIGHTENED soul. 😇
Top-notch content. As a Christian who had once fallen away from the Faith and who is still skeptical, you are really helping solidify things for me. Your use of logic and reason is so refreshing.
Keep seeking friend. I had the same experience. It took me a long time to realize that the God of the universe was not afraid of my questions.
his use of logic is idiotic. you really miss all the contradictory stuff don't you. but then again if you're trying to justify suffering by saying it's "character building" then you aren't the brightest are you.
god can do anything he wants, but he wants you to suffer so you can be a better person? go break a leg if you think it will get you into heaven. jeez.
@@HarryNicNicholas what's your point then?u still believe in God?
@@HarryNicNicholasCharater bulding is a beautiful thing you act like it's such a horrible and immoral thing. And also your oversimplifying everything there were many more points discussed in the video.
I had a near death experience and absolutely left my body. I remember bits and pieces but one of the strongest memories was seeing an ocean of souls and being at full eternal peace aside from the fact that I should not stay no matter how much I wanted to. It really did seem more real than real. I think that’s because I was hyper aware of reality rather than limited to my bodies ability to perceive it. I told my family and they believe me but not because they just trust me. Also because I listened to their conversations while I was in surgery and repeated them back verbatim when I came out.
Edit: I read the passage in Revelations about the ocean of souls AFTER seeing it in my experience. I cried when I read it because John used the same description I did because we saw the same thing and it’s the best way to describe it. So beautiful.
Thank you for sharing🙏
What is this “I” which left “your” body?
@@TheWorldTeacher I think will give you some satisfactory context - th-cam.com/video/lK3xsZpU3zw/w-d-xo.html
specifically the 32:00 mark.
@@drummerboy69n, I have previously viewed that video but I fail to see how it answers my above question.
Perhaps YOU can offer a curt response to my simple question, O Boy Who Drums.
For twelve years I have been falling further and further into a world of physical pain as all of my sensory nerves are malfunctioning, creating 24/7 burning, stabbing, aching, tingling pains all over my body. My autonomic nerves, the ones that control automatic function, are malfunctioning as well. Ringing ears, burning eyes, dry mouth, diving blood pressure, digestive malfunction, urinary problems. Despairing of life has become a daily reality. I am trusting that God is working in all of this. Working something in me and in others. I am trusting in His promise of an eternity with no pain.
My tears, for your pain. ❤
I truly feel for your pain and everything that you’re going through, but he abandoned you a long time ago
This video and @Deflate's video response to Alex O'Connor's Animal Suffering argument against God act together as my new 'go to' resource for the subject!
Are you a THEIST? 🤔
If so, what are the reasons for your BELIEF in God? 🤓
@@TheWorldTeacher Can't believe you are still asking this exact same question on theist channels for months without end... I remember you posting this exact text to IP's channel back in 2019. Wtf lol!
@@VeNeRaGe That's how you see they aren't really looking for honest answers. Those people will never be satisfied, no matter what you tell them.
@@TheWorldTeacher I was an atheist, but now I am a theist. My reasons are that I was brought up in a culture that quite rightly rejected a strawman version of biblical Christianity and uncritically accepted the conflict hypothesis as dogma. However at university I met a Christian who understood the importance of apologetics, and was able to point out the logical, philosophical, and historical errors in my beliefs. Thst was disturbing. Then my mother had a near death experience, and was able to recount details of events in the ambulance after the medics confirmed she had no pulse that were able to be verified by my father who also in the ambulance. My faith in Atheism to explain everything was badly shaken. But it was a personal experience of God's presence that finally pushed me into theism. And thirty years of study have confirmed that biblical Christianity is the best explanation of reality available. Thanks for asking.
@@VeNeRaGe, well, Slave, we all have our own particular BELIEFS, but ultimately, there exists objective truth, which is not subject to our misconceptions and misunderstandings.
One who has transcended mundane relative truth is said to be an ENLIGHTENED soul. 😇
I’m in between switching from night shifts to day shifts and I’m listening to this as I lay here not able to sleep yet. This is wonderful. Not where I expected to end up tonight, but glad I did.
why? all IP has done is justify suffering, he's basicallt said that evil people like me are fantastic and without me you won't get into heaven. it's a moronic argument.
"In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world" John 16:33
Amen
Amen
Amen
means nothing
Really beautifully done. This one and the videos on heaven and hell would be a video I'd say every Pastor should play for their congregation.
cos without hell jesus would be redundant.
@@HarryNicNicholas yes, without the possibility of being separated from God by our own volition and free will, Jesus WOULD be redundant.
The possibility of being separated from God by our own volition and free will is real, so Jesus is not redundant.
@@matheusadornidardenne8684 and why is there a possibility of being separated from god?
@@person8064
Because being free is better than being "unfree" so a perfect God would necessarily create a world with free beings, which necessarily implies some people will cut themselves from God.
I had this problem in my head ever since I lost my grandparents. This helped me a lot. To be honest, I don't usually tear up while looking at videos but this almost made me break down. Thank you for this.
I lost my grandma in 2018.
@@misterauctor7353 I lost them on both sides of the family in 2011 and in 2007. What I've learned is that even though it's still tough I know that they're in Heaven. With any of the family I lost, that applies. It's hard and it hurts, but you just have to carry on. They're not suffering, and they're in a better place.
"The Law Of Triumph" is absolutely fascinating. I can't overemphasize how important this is and will be in time! It ended very good!
Good and bad are RELATIVE. 😉
@@TheWorldTeacher prove it.
@@jackplumbridge2704, GLADLY:
🐟 03. CONCEPTS Vs THE TRUTH:
The term “TRUTH” is a grossly misused word.
Anything which has ever been written or spoken, by even the greatest sage or Avatar (incarnation of Divinity), including every single postulation within this Holy Scripture, is merely a CONCEPT and not “The Truth”, as defined further down.
A concept is either accurate or inaccurate. Virtually all concepts are inaccurate to a certain degree. However, some concepts are far more accurate than others. A belief is an unhealthy and somewhat problematic relationship one has with a certain concept, due to misapprehension of life as it is, objectively-speaking. Attachment to beliefs, particularly in the presumption of individual free-will, is the cause of psychological suffering.
For example, the personal conception of Ultimate Reality (God or The Goddess) is inaccurate to a large extent. The concept of Ultimate Reality being singular (“All is One”) is far more accurate. The transcendence of BOTH the above concepts (non-duality) is excruciatingly accurate. However, none of these concepts is “The Truth” as such, since all ideas are relative, whilst The Truth is absolute.
It is VITALLY important to distinguish between relative truth and Absolute Truth. Relative truth is temporal, mutable, subjective, dependent, immanent, differentiated, conditioned, finite, complex, reducible, imperfect, and contingent, whilst Absolute Truth is eternal, immutable, objective, independent, transcendent, undifferentiated, unconditional, infinite, non-dual (i.e. simple), irreducible, perfect, and non-contingent.
Absolute Truth is the ground of all being (“Brahman”, in Sanskrit), and is prior to any mind, matter, name, form, intent, thought, word, or deed.
Good and bad are RELATIVE - what may be good or bad can vary according to temporal circumstances and according to personal preferences. For example, there is absolutely no doubt that citrus fruits are a good source of nutrients for human beings. However, it may be bad to consume such beneficial foods when one is experiencing certain illnesses, such as chronic dysentery. 'One man's food is another man's poison.'
However, beyond the dichotomy of good and bad, is the Eternal Truth, which transcends mundane relativism. Therefore, the goal of life is to rise above the subjective “good” and “bad”, and abide in the transcendental sphere. A qualified spiritual preceptor is able to guide one in the intricacies of such transcendence. Such a person, who has transcended mundane relative truth, is said to be an enlightened soul.
When making moral judgments, it is more appropriate to use the terms “holy/evil” or “righteous/unrighteous”, rather than “good/bad” or “right/wrong”. As the Bard of Avon so rightly declared in the script for one of his plays, there is nothing which is intrinsically either good or bad but “thinking makes it so”. At the time of writing (early twenty-first century), especially in the Anglosphere, most persons seem to use the dichotomy of “good/evil” rather than “good/bad” and “holy/evil”, most probably because they consider that “holiness” is exclusively a religious term. However, the term “holy” and “righteous” are fundamentally synonymous, for they refer to a person or an act which is fully in accordance with pure, holy, and righteous principles (“dharma”, in Sanskrit). So a holy person is one who obeys the law of “non-harm” (“ahiṃsā”, in Sanskrit), and as the ancient Sanskrit axiom states: “ahiṃsa paramo dharma” (non-violence is the highest moral virtue or law).
The ONLY (absolute) Truth in the phenomenal manifestation is the impersonal sense of “I am” (“ahaṃ”, in Sanskrit).
Everything else is merely transient and unreal (“unreal” for that very reason - because it is ever-mutating, lacking permanence and stability).
This sense of quiddity is otherwise called “Infinite Awareness”, “Spirit”, “God”, “The Ground of Being”, “The Higher Self”, “Necessary Existence“, as well as various other epithets, for it is the very essence of one's being. Chapters 06 and 10 deal more fully with this subject matter.
Of course, for one who is fully self-realized and enlightened, the subject-object duality has collapsed. Therefore, a fully-awakened individual does not perceive any REAL difference between himself and the external world, and so sees everything in himself and himself in everything.
If it is true that there are none so blind as those who don’t WANT to see, and none so deaf as those who don’t WANT to hear, then surely, there are none so ignorant as those who don’t WANT to learn the truth.
OBVIOUSLY, in the previous paragraph, and in most other references to the word “truth” within this booklet, it is meant “the most accurate concept possible”, or at least ”an extremely accurate fact”.
For example, as clearly demonstrated in Chapters 21 and 22, it is undoubtedly “true” that a divinely-instituted monarchy is the most beneficial form of national governance, but that is not the Absolute Truth, which is the impersonal, never-changing ground of all being.
So, to put it succinctly, all “truths” are relative concepts (even if they are very accurate) but the Universal Self alone is REAL Truth.
"In the absence of both the belief 'I am the body' and in the absence of the belief that 'I am not the body', what is left is what we really are.
We don't need to define what we really are. We don't need to create a thought to tell us what we are. What we are is what TRUTH is."
*************
"God is not something 'out-there', 'looking-in', but God (or Source) has BECOME all of This.
So God is the Underlying Principle of all of this - the Energy or the Consciousness.
The (psycho-physical) manifestation has arisen within Consciousness as an imagination in the mind of Source."
Roger Castillo,
Australian Spiritual Teacher, 15/07/2015.
"I am the TRUTH..."
*************
“...and the TRUTH shall set you free”.
Lord Jesus Christ,
John 14:6 & 8:32
@@TheWorldTeacher "Anything which has ever been written or spoken, by even the greatest sage or Avatar (incarnation of Divinity), including every single postulation within this Holy Scripture, is merely a CONCEPT and not “The Truth”, as defined further down." - so they are all false?
prove it.
"A belief is an unhealthy and somewhat problematic relationship one has with a certain concept, due to misapprehension of life as it is, objectively-speaking." - a belief is thinking something is right or true.
you think that your idea are right, therefore, by you have a problematic relationship with your own concepts.
"Attachment to beliefs, particularly in the presumption of individual free-will, is the cause of psychological suffering." - your beliefs are causing you psychological suffering? how odd.
"However, none of these concepts is “The Truth” as such, since all ideas are relative, whilst The Truth is absolute." - so your idea about idea being relative is also relative and therefore isn't true.
"It is VITALLY important to distinguish between relative truth and Absolute Truth. Relative truth is temporal, mutable, subjective, dependent, immanent, differentiated, conditioned, finite, complex, reducible, imperfect, and contingent, whilst Absolute Truth is eternal, immutable, objective, independent, transcendent, undifferentiated, unconditional, infinite, non-dual (i.e. simple), irreducible, perfect, and non-contingent.
Absolute Truth is the ground of all being (“Brahman”, in Sanskrit), and is prior to any mind, matter, name, form, intent, thought, word, or deed." - all truth is objective. there is no such thing as a subjective truth.
if something is true, it cannot be false.
"Good and bad are RELATIVE - what may be good or bad can vary according to temporal circumstances and according to personal preferences." - umm, what? why are you talking about general concepts when we are talking about specific acts? you seem to be saying something along the lines of:
"a type of action isn't always wrong, therefore good and evil are subjective"
and this makes no sense.
just because a general action can be right or wrong does not mean every specific action can be right or wrong.
i got bored reading your comment because it has so much nonsensical gibberish in it.
i asked you to prove to me that good and evil are relative, and you failed to do so.
you can try again if you want.
@@jackplumbridge2704, according to the most enlightened persons in history, including the current World Teacher himself, a philosophical argument is to be AUTOMATICALLY rejected if it is composed using poor grammar and/or syntax (and, to a lesser degree, poor spelling).
After all, how would it be possible to know for certain what a person’s argument even is, unless it was written in concise and legible language?
Therefore, Slave, your INANE comments are futile. I suggest you get back to me once you have learnt to properly converse in your native tongue.
Hint: it’s called “Spell-Check” and “GRAMMARLY”. 👨🏻🎓
Look into them, Silly Sinful Slave. ✅
This made me cry (in a good way...I think?). I lost my cat about two weeks ago. She was only 10, and one of my main emotional anchors, so it was quite a blow. It's really nice to think that she's getting rewarded for her loyalty, and for all the love and support she gave me over the past decade (the finest milk - all she can drink). May she be safe and happy in God's arms until the day I get to join her.
do animals go to heaven? can i take my pet alligator?
@@HarryNicNicholas God created alligators too, you know. :P
That's what you take from the religious teachings of Jesus, that your cat is in heaven ?
nowhere in the bible does it say animals go to heaven
@@HarryNicNicholas when God sings with his creations, will not an alligator be apart of the choir?
"...there is something about life that the existence of suffering can never overtake".
I like this one
it appears that bullying is a good thing now. religion can make up anything it wants to justify anything.
@@HarryNicNicholas If you dont like suffering and think suffering is heavier than life, then why are you still alive?
I would argue that much of the gratuitous evil (natural disasters, disease etc) could be greatly reduced to negligible levels if humans had a Biblical worldview in terms of the use of their money and resources, in caring for others, in nations who were devoted to God and prayer, etc etc on and on. Even though these things don’t seem to carry a direct correlation to the evil free choices of men, I believe they are more intertwined than we often think.
In your own words, define “EVIL”. ☝️🤔☝️
What are “negligible levels?” Can the suffering of the dying fawn be described as negligible? Remember, there only needs to be one single instance of gratuitous suffering for the argument to go through.
@@samuelstephens6904 I didn't attempt to define negligible, rather it was a comparative statement to the current state of our world. Also, I never claimed the argument wouldn't "go through" even under my proposed hypothetical, rather the thrust of my comment was to establish that we contribute much more to what we would call "natural evil" than we assume we do.
How could people living biblically reduce natural disasters that beyond their control?
Did you mean to say this?
@@TKK0812, I am patiently awaiting your response to my question. ☝🏼
This video has really helped me because I’m going through a tough time of loneliness. God Bless your ministry Mike.
One of the reasons why i dont think a god exists and if he does hes very cold and psychopathic it seems to me.
God isn’t real.
I don’t understand why this video has got so few views! It’s one of the best, if not the best, on explanation of why God allows evil and suffering in this world. Well done Inspiring Philosophy!
This is a better sermon than those at my own church! Keep up the good work!
basically IP is saying that he thinks life would be boring without suffering and that evil gits like me are fantastic cos what would you have to do all day if it weren't for me trying to make your pitiful god robot life miserable?
basically inspiring philosophy is justifying evil. stupid, religion is just stupid.
unless you enjoy my evil and you think it's going to guarantee a place in heaven for you? in which case evil is indispensible, no?
lol, what a joke.
Great video! I was recently cyberbullied, and it really upset me because, up until that point, I had really good reactions from other people, and it honestly made me sad.☹️
Then, I watched this video, and it really helped cheer me up! Thanks a lot, Mr. Jones!😀
@Jean Oh Maybe I am soft, but I care more about civil conversations than insults and slander, and that is what that person was doing. I tried telling that person this, but he/she wouldn't stop.
Also, there are two abbreviations for POS, and if you are referring to "Parents over shoulder," you are incorrect. I left the conversation by my own volition. Of course, if you mean the OTHER POS, then... 🙄 Whatever.
@Jean Oh You need Jesus, friend.
@@TheGaberGuy dont even bother with Him. He just wants to seem tuff but isn't.
@@childinchrist7335 Thank you for your kind words!😀
Cool profile picture
Thanks IP, I needed this. I know it's an logical response and not an emotional one but it still helped. I'm going through some really bad stuff now so if anyone out there was a good track record with God answering their prayers, I'd be grateful for one prayer for me too. Thanks everyone and if you are having problems now, try to stay strong, this nightmare will be over soon
Those are my favourite type of videos that you make! I love the ones of quantum theory and Christianity in general, like this; thank you for making it, looking forward to see this.
wow, you spent alot of time and effort on this! This is amazing! very good editing and very very good information! God bless you brother !
IP,
Outstanding video as always. I feel like we Christians leave all the work for you but I have to say, we are really grateful for all of your videos. They are incredibly encouraging and informative. God bless you.
If God Himself can literally come down and willingly get tortured to death, why should we as Christians expect to have easy and painless lives?
Please tell me you’re joking. Two points.
If it really is god and he’s all powerful he can withstand infinite suffering.
If you have to go through a few years of suffering in exchange for an eternity of joy, that’s not a sacrifice. Don’t be deluded into thinking it’s anything but.
This is without doubt the deepest and most profound explanation of this subject I have ever heard as a Christian and I feel blessed by it........Many thanks for uploading it .
GOD bless and keep you IP.
Grace and peace to the Christian family
Gilly wife of Mark
This is by far the best theodicy for suffering I’ve ever seen. I’m very certain you just cracked it. Amazing job IP.
suffering is great isn't it?
? ffs.
@@HarryNicNicholas Triumphing over suffering is great.
@@matheusadornidardenne8684 not when it never needed to exist in the first place
@@person8064
Why would you make such an emotionally driven claim?
Pain keeps you safe, away from too much heat, too much cold, from thorns, from cutting edges. Pain is the signal that tells you something is wrong and you must do something about it immediately. The same applies to emotional scarring and psychological suffering; anxiety is fear of the unknown or of the future (and can be caused either by an actual perceived looming threat, an excess of dopamine, or both). We ought to be anxious, because the future is uncertain, and anxiety is what pushes us to prepare ourselves, to stock food for the winter, to keep our muscles strong, or in this modern age, to qualify ourselves in the job market. Suffering is what makes us wise, strong, resilient, hard-working.
The world is currently wholly broken, so suffering obviously must exist for now.
Only when God returns to rule over the world will suffering be done with, because pain is the indicator of something wrong, and nothing will be wrong. If you long relief from suffering, convert and sing; Maranatha, come, Lord Jesus. But don't seat down and cry until He does, prepare yourself.
@@matheusadornidardenne8684 Emotions aren't powering my logic.
Being omnipotent can remove the very things which cause pain, namely danger, uncertainty, and lack of control. Why can't God remove these problems? Couldn't he simply design humans wise, strong, resilient, hard-working?
Why couldn't God return to rule over the world thousands of years ago? Why allow suffering for any length of time?
Thank you. My cat was suffering terribly from multiple seizures. I wanted to curse God so badly because I felt why the hell would he allow such suffering to come upon an absolutely innocent creature. I'm more at peace now. Thanks.
I’d put it like this, we as humans and animals are tiny creatures in an extremely dangerous universe. That fact that we are even alive right now is in itself a Miracle, having all the narrow but necessary factors to maintain life. Why don’t we expect suffering and some level of misfortune and give thanks for the life that we have and the one who sustains it?
Sounds very Buddhist..
@@amandamcgovern5744 I mean, a lot of ideas that other religions hold do hold an inkling of the truth. We all live in the same reality. The thing is Jesus Christ is the very truth we've been poking at the entire time.
The question for that would be to ask why god put us in such a non life supporting universe if he could just not do that?
@@Greyz174 Good question 👍🏾, I think CS Lewis put this into perspective the best:
The problem of reconciling human suffering with the existence of a God who loves, is only insoluble so long as we attach a trivial meaning to the word "love", and look on things as if man were the centre of them. Man is not the centre. God does not exist for the sake of man. Man does not exist for his own sake. "Thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." We were made not primarily that we may love God (though we were made for that too) but that God may love us, that we may become objects in which the divine love may rest "well pleased".
C. S. Lewis
Suffering is necessary in a world where there is not only free will but is Also run by laws and probability, suffering reveals the greatest acts of virtue and also bring awareness to our own mortality and at times weakness. The good news is that suffering is not forever, nothing in this world is.
@@LilacZ373 I wasnt asking about the problem of suffering, although the doctrine an eternal hell is really something Lewish shouldve thought about with that last line.
What I was getting at is that this universe, with just a speck of life amidst unfathomable hostility towards life, is what youd expect if there was a universe that god didnt make. Youd expect it to probably be a lot smaller and more centered around us living, if he wanted a universe for us to live in. And he couldve made one like that just as easily. So why not?
This doesnt disprove that god made the universe but "which worldview explains it better" is a fun game to play and i think atheism explains this one a lot better.
This law of triumph really does seem to be embedded within our reality it's like reality itself represents God's victory on the cross
This was absolutely incredible.
Thank you so much for this.
This was absolutely needed. Thank you.
A drop of sorrow, in an ocean of joy. Great line!
yup thats the thing. Religion only offers platitudes and poetic lines, but it cant solve the actual problem of suffering.
@@Yameen200 it can. It did. Thousands of years ago. Get with the times, bro.
In fact, religion, but specifically christianity, is the only thing capable of giving meaning to suffering.
Do not fool yourself. It is not a coincidence that secularism and suicide rise and fall together in any country.
@@matheusadornidardenne8684 The meaning comes from sugarcoating life to give ourselves comfort saying dont worry all pain will soon go away. Justice is coming. Nothing but a platitude. If Secularism is a mess then neither is religion hunky dory.
@@Yameen200 if processing suffering using reason to find a compelling story of purpose for it, instead of giving up to emotion, is "sugarcoating", then I am not interested in what you have to say, because you do not value reason, so any reasonable conversation with you would be pointless.
@@matheusadornidardenne8684 buddy most ppl ive talked to on the problem of evil are overconfident. once u dive deeper into the complexities and objections most run away and resort to the old get away scot free cliche "god works in mysterious ways"
Dude its not even reason. Its wishful thinking. Have u been to heaven ? Can u open a portal to there ? No ? Exactly !!
Can you prove heaven using reason and logic without a shred of my holy book says so ? So please dont use your own discomfort with the problem of suffering to gaslight others as irrational
"For now we see through a mirror, dimly. And then we shall see face to face."
Great presentation!
This is some high level thinking alongside educational visuals, really this is worth more than any college course on philosophy.
This was a long awaited video.
Have we ever thought about the evils that God HAS prevented? Bad things that could have happened but because they never did we do not know about them. Consider all the times you may have narrowly missed death. Meditate on the many ways God has delivered you from evil.
Revelation 21:4 is my favorite verse. & the first verse I ever use when speaking scripture to non believers
My favorite argument to believers is that the Book of Revelation called for Christians to treat the Roman administration as an agent of the devil. At the center of it all is the recognition of how Revelation is depicting the Roman Empire as the Great Whore, with the Emperor as the seven-headed "beast from the sea," who are the ones carrying out Satan's war against God on earth. That is contradictory to what Jesus said which is that the goverment is put there by God and that you should respect it. Therefore, if you accept Jesus, you cannot accept the Book of Revelation.
@@cookieslalala5847 this is a strawman argument, may Jesus enlighten you !
Thank you so much for this video dude!!
Just wanted to thank you for making these videos. You are helping me strengthen my weakening faith.
This was great IP, I love your vids they’re so well put together keep doing this amazing work! You truly are inspiring
basically IP is saying that he thinks life would be boring without suffering and that evil gits like me are fantastic cos what would you have to do all day if it weren't for me trying to make your pitiful god robot life miserable?
basically inspiring philosophy is justifying evil. stupid, religion is just stupid.
unless you enjoy my evil and you think it'ds going to guarantee a place in heaven for you? in which case evil is indispensible, no?
lol, what a joke.
Amazing and really informative video. Absolutely loved it
Thinking about God and His ways of work is really mind-blowing and beyond comprehension...
Thank you for the video! It's really profound and thought-provoking. Your videos are indeed inspiring-philosophy!
Once again thanking you in advance for when I share this video with friends and family
This has to be one of your greatest videos yet! The depth here is amazing! I genuinely thank you for this video, as it's very comprehensive, enlightening, and hope filled! If I may ask, what are the top three-five books you recommend on the topic?
Thanks, I would probably just refer to the books I cited in the video. Clay Jones and Trent Dougherty’s books were great for example
@@InspiringPhilosophy Thanks! I'm sharing this video with many friends as we speak! I cannot thank you enough for doing this video!
Great job on this video... it’s not a criticism but could you speak directly too my concern... it is for those who suffer from abuse as children.. they usually have a very difficult life, and it seems very difficult for them to believe in God because of that abuse... and so they seem lost , it seems through no fault of their own 😞. I know of people this has happened too, they reject God. It makes me sad. I know God works in mysterious ways... you are very smart, what am I missing when it comes to children who through no fault of their own are abused .. and then their lives spiral out of control, and they turn away from God, not believing in him because they cannot square the idea of a loving God allowing the horrors that they experienced to have happened ☹️. Thank you for the video 🙏
“He was despised and rejected- a man of sorrows, acquainted with deepest grief. We turned our backs on him and looked the other way. He was despised, and we did not care. Yet it was our weaknesses he carried; it was our sorrows that weighed him down. And we thought his troubles were a punishment from God, a punishment for his own sins! But he was pierced for our rebellion, crushed for our sins. He was beaten so we could be whole. He was whipped so we could be healed. All of us, like sheep, have strayed away. We have left God’s paths to follow our own. Yet the Lord laid on him the sins of us all. He was oppressed and treated harshly, yet he never said a word. He was led like a lamb to the slaughter. And as a sheep is silent before the shearers, he did not open his mouth. Unjustly condemned, he was led away. No one cared that he died without descendants, that his life was cut short in midstream. But he was struck down for the rebellion of my people. He had done no wrong and had never deceived anyone. But he was buried like a criminal; he was put in a rich man’s grave. But it was the Lord’s good plan to crush him and cause him grief. Yet when his life is made an offering for sin, he will have many descendants. He will enjoy a long life, and the Lord’s good plan will prosper in his hands. When he sees all that is accomplished by his anguish, he will be satisfied. And because of his experience, my righteous servant will make it possible for many to be counted righteous, for he will bear all their sins. I will give him the honors of a victorious soldier, because he exposed himself to death. He was counted among the rebels. He bore the sins of many and interceded for rebels.”
Isaiah 53:3-12 NLT
This was written around 700 years before Jesus came into the earth, yet it describes His life perfectly.
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16
God loves you so much and showed that by sending His Son to die for us so that we may inherit eternal life. We deserve hell but He gave us heaven through faith in Jesus. He took the punishment we deserved and by putting our faith in Him we can be saved. The Key To Eternal Life:
th-cam.com/video/uZdv-TtiMkg/w-d-xo.html
For evidence for Christianity and answered questions, check out
th-cam.com/users/drcraigvideos
and th-cam.com/users/CrossExamined
because if Jesus really rose from the dead it is the most important fact ever!
I swear you are more inspired then most people I wish you well and your work to continue
Very well put. Great resource as always
Another great Treatise on Christianity. 😊👍 it takes a lot of courage in the modern age to put out videos like this, and lay bare your faith before others. I love to CS Lewis for this reason. And you use the same methodology uses, his very rational. Doesn't get into church Dogma, he just tells people how he personally sees his faith. And I am glad to see someone continuing on the work of Lewis. CS Lewis change my life and I know he's changed the world and his own way. Does Fireside Chats during World War II kept England strong and got them to the London Blitz and the second world war. I think these videos are necessary in the times we live. Pope John Paul once said "through suffering we can become better". When CS Lewis first turned atheism he used this quote at once my heart was. " broken and exalted" I think sometimes pain opens us up to God, because none of us can ever forget how much he suffered alone on the ✝ and the only thing that saw his mission through was God's love for him and his love for God
I cried the first time I saw this video. I needed to hear this.
amazing content, as always!
As someone who has left the faith and will not come back, I will say this is an extremely well-detailed video. Amazing work!
It was while I was suffering God found me.
I think u found God because we dont need God if we have no Sufferring. A human will only change from Evil to Good when he is nailed to a Cross or lost in the Mountain or have to eat Pig Food like the Prodigal Son.
@@moneyking2540 , Prodigal son here.
@@hellavadeal Did u ASK for God when you were Suffering. Jesus said Ask and u shall receive. Seek and u shall find. Knock and it shall be Opened. God is always wait for us like your Mother. Happy Mothers Day.
@@moneyking2540 I remember asking God if He was real. "If you are , I could use some help here." 5 minutes latter a man came and saw my situation and took me in. Turned out to be a guy learning to be a minister. He told me he had a funny feeling that something was wrong and felt compelled to go where I was.
I was freezing to death next to some railroad tracks. I was robbed and beaten and left for dead.
@@hellavadeal Wow the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ must have prompted your Saviour to Save you from Certain Death. Jesus always Speak the Truth. Unlike Satan the Biggest Liar. Anyone possessed by Satan will do the Same.
The irony is that this view on suffering is actually equally a secular one. Idioms like "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger" and "No pain, no gain" are widely accepted by theists and atheists alike because they communicate the very fundamental and objective truth that suffering promotes character building and wisdom. Thus, it's no surprise that "Our God is a consuming fire". Suffering is merely the fire of His holiness consuming our impurities and imperfections.
“Suffering is merely the fire of His holiness consuming our impurities and imperfections.”
What on earth does that mean?
@@amandamcgovern5744 God is often portrayed and referred to as a fire. Such as the burning bush, or in Hebrews "For our God is a consuming fire." It is saying that the closer we draw to God, the more he will "consume" our sins. His fire purifies us. The suffering is painful, but the result is polished and perfected.
@@SquizzMe so the more we obey god.. the more we should expect to suffer?
@@amandamcgovern5744 no not necessarily. "Drawing near to God" is not done by work, it's done through exercising your faith in Him. When you pray to him earnestly, when you seek answers in his Word and when you leave your worldly worries and insecurities to him. Your faith grows through both suffering and the rewards you gain from that suffering.
@@SquizzMe huh.. interesting
Because he loves our suffering immensely so much so he ensures we never escape it not even in death.
Very loving to force suffering for eternity
Huh?
This was brilliant. I really loved this.
Fantastic video! Love the law of triumph theodicy.
A few things I dont understand or more so a few concerns that I have are about those whom are deeply depressed concerning the suffering they have lived through and/or whatever outside factors that may be troubling them as well.
From what I understand - many such individuals would likely scoff at the ideas presented here. However, from what scripture tells us, a radical transformation must occur for such people for them to change - and this is initiated by the radical transformation through Love.
One of the ideas in this video is that we live in a dream like state. Also, John 3:16 tells us that God doesn't want none to parish.
Given all this is true, why wouldn't Christ come down in a vision or perhaps a dream similar to how He did with Saul and let such people - whom are on the brink of suicide - experience His overwhelming tidal wave of Love and Joy - and be the radical Love that many such individuals need to change them - so that they may not parish and forever be lost to Him?
Hundreds of thousands of people die each year due to suicide.
Why wouldn't Christ pay such people a visit in hopes thet that will change them and save them from eternal damnation?
Surely significantly less suicides would occur - and significantly more of these people would be saved and could preach their experiences to those whom were like them this saving even more in the long run, and employ in more soul building?
Another one is why does Hell have to be eternal damnation rather than reincarnation?
I understand that it would diminish the second chance given to us by Christ and that many would sadly just repeat the cycle over and over again - but surely if some in hell were given a new second or possibly a thrid life each with different circumstances than their original life they may likely choose to be with God?
Another is that I disagree with what you said about how (something along the lines of) some suffering wont have lasting damage in the next life.
But what about those whom, for example, have experienced tremendous amounts of suffering that psychologically damages them for the rest of their life?
Suffering that causes them even more suffering in the form of night terrors, anxiety attacks, PDSD, etc in the decades after the fact?
I've meet dosens of such people online over the last few years alone and they all have experienced tremendous amounts of suffering and are in positions where certain circumstances such as the environment they are in simply make it worse and they aren't able to get out of it.
How can such individuals ever be able to accept Christ?
I highly doubt telling them God allowed them to experience their initial suffering, as well as the decades of extra suffering on top of that, all for character development.
When framing it like this, it almost sounds cruel if not somehow more than cruel.
Though it is true that if they were to accept Christ, all such suffering would be like a drop in an ocean of love and joy - but the issue is that this scale of suffering greatly hinders their ability or desire to be with Christ in the first place.
From there perspective, telling them all this wouldn't change them at all - if not make them resent God and Christianity even more (assuming they dont already).
But what would possibly change them is a radical transformation through the radical Love and Joy of Christ.
Which takes us back to the 1st issue...
Why wouldn't Christ visit such people in a vision or a dream to help them when only Gods love can possibly change them?
And the bullying analogy was quite poor imho, considering how any loving and protective parent would definitely confront the a bully that is picking on or beating up their child, confront the bullies parent/s, and/or confront the school. Not sit aside at home and do nothing or teach their children how to throw a punch or teach them what to say in order to confront the bully themselves just for the sake of character development.
A parent stepping in to put a stop to a school bully doesn't deprive them of character development in the future, nor does in insinuate that the child will be babied from here on out.
There are circumstances in which character development in needed and circumstances in which character development is unnecessary.
A person suffering from PTSD and Depression from a terrible trauma from their childhood doesn't warrant any character development.
A person struggling from financial issues because of an addiction does warrant character development because they need to move past their addiction so that they can put the money being wasted to good use.
See what I mean?
In certain circumstances, no character development or soul building is present.
Thus the suffering is unwarranted thus unnecessary.
I understand than the vast majority of suffering can/will result in character development, soul building, and development of virtues but there are too many examples where the suffering of select individuals is too great and they develop little no virtues from their suffering.
As a matter of fact, there are plenty of people whom undergo the opposite of character development, soul building, and virtue development.
Like a hard working man whom is providing for his family becomes disabled in an accident at work and experiences lasting pain.
He's no longer able to work so he looses his job.
With no job, he cannot provide for his family, and thus is no longer the provider of the family like he once was.
Because of this, his friends and family simply pity him rather than respect him.
And slowly over time he degrades and whatever virtues he once had have all diminished into vices.
What about people like this whom experience a net negative in terms of character development, soul building, and virtue development?
How can such a man deprived of all this develop anything virtuous or have the longevity or optimism to seek God given their condition?
Had he not gotten injured, his character, soul, and virtues would've developed just fine with any regular challenges.
If not, how does the need to be developed warrant this amount of suffering?
Surely there are other ways in order to achieve equal or greater amounts of development that don't involve such amount of suffering?
Just reading this I can see a few holes but i just wanted to play devils advocate for a bit.
Hopefully you're answers will be as good as the video was ^^
I love this comment. It says all the issues i have with the problem of suffering. All the problems i see with all the theodicies be it the soul growth, the heaven theodicy, the yin yang, greater good, free will etc
The point on depression and PTSD has been my objection too. Its called the problem of irredemable and gratuitious evil.
And many ppl either dont go through much suffering and dont have soul growth. Its very convenient
This is the issue, No matter how many theodicies ppl come up with there always a real world scenario that counters it and thats why the problem of evil is the biggest evidence against god or religion.
You can send your concerns to IP directly. There's a "Contact Us" feature on his website. Can't promise IP'll answer, but worth a shot.
@@androrizk5546 I wouldnt bother with IP. Hes clearly too sociopathic to suffering. He even said in his debate with cosmic skeptic that the evil of frodo meeting the spider from the lord of the rings serves no purpose in soul growth and that its gratuitous but makes the story more interesting to which CS replies that it seems hes suggesting that god has these gratuitous evils in the world to entertain himself. He uses that as an analogy for the whole so called law of triumph.
The point is it seems u have to clutch at straws to defend the concept of a good god.
@@Yameen200My comment was directed toward "Emery Thrash" , not you.
I really appreciate how you manage to address the logic of the argument while remaining compassionate.
When we endure suffering and feel God's love in the midst of it, it gives an understanding of the depth of His love that would not be possible without the suffering. That can change the heart and build the soul.
Perfect… just beautiful… thanks! ❤
I really love this perspective about animals, never heard of it before and its definitely fascinating
It is impossible to comprehend joy and happiness without experiencing the opposite.
You don’t need that much suffering
@@fossilfountain, who made that decision or choice? You?
@@iamanempoweredone6064 How much suffering and what kind of suffering do you propose that the world needs?
@@LASLAY13, that’s up to God and the individual choices of those born into this world. I’m not saying that they are paying a price for actions done in a “previous life”. ( karma is greatly misunderstood) I believe most, if not all, born into this world are preparing for occupations in the eternal worlds that they chose before they were born.
@@iamanempoweredone6064 So its just a belief with no proof. Youre presupposing that your god exists or that there really is one. You dont get to say that "its up to god" and not provide any evidence. But ok so is it your god or is it Brahma? Why or why not?
Also, as someone with PTSD I can say that horrible u explainable dreams and even reality shake me for days. Such dreams are so horrific and waking up does not dessipate them.
From a Bayesian Theist.....in having seen thousands of people face death, I would humble submit for your critical assessment, that physics, neuroscience, and ancient intuition can greatly enhance the most important strength that we have...which is faith of course.
If science can postulate the Big Bang started with a quantum fluctuation in the Quantum Void, then its logically consistent to think that in a nearly infinite time ago, a infinite intelligent form of consciousness could also have come into being.
BEST WISHES
Had an Irish friend who said that they cry when a child is born into this world and rejoice when they leave it...
A better question is,
"Why do people break the commandments?"
Imagine if everyone obeyed the commandments. Do not commit adultery. Neither rape nor child molestation would exist. Divorce would be far less frequent. There'd be no sexually transmitted diseases.
Imagine that.
Do not murder. What if everyone obeyed that! Or Do not covet. We'd probably never have any wars.
You have a good point, but I think Jesus' sermon of the mount suggests that not even this would be enough. Not "doing" sin is not enough, because to God, sin is not just something we do, it is what we are, it is impregnated into our very being, written all over our genes, expressed throughout our neural pathways... If we hate someone, it is the same as murder, even if we don't murder. If we are married and desire another woman, it is the same as adultery, even if we don't engage in sex.
And the problem with hate, desire, etc, is that they are subconscious, they are out of our direct control... because we are rotten to the core.
Yes, a society where everyone obeyed the Law would be an outwardly perfect society. But they would still be white-washed tombs. That's why we need Jesus, because we need to have our hearts removed, and receive new ones, with a new spirit. Ezekiel 36:26.
Because sin is dwelling in our members. Lust of the eye, lust of the flesh, pride of life
Same could be said for the code of hammurabi..
But if we didn’t covet, capitalism wouldn’t exist. Maybe you’re a socialist/ communist but I don’t think those are good systems.
@@don_ald1 if people didn’t cover what their neighbor has and have the desire to “keep up with the Jones’ “… our economy would rank. Do you really not think our markets would go to free fall if everyone just bought what they needed?” And didn’t covet others?
I’m sorry but that’s just delusional.
@@don_ald1 there is a good analogy I heard once...
In capitalism, you milk your cow, sell the milk, and profit.
In communism, the government steals your cow and gives you some milk.
Thanks Michael. Just came from an atheist triumphantly claiming that evil disproves God so this helps. It also seems like so many people never mention the Christian story when addressing this problem.
I just saw your debate with CS on the Capturing Christianity channel and i keep thinking like..."why did he not use this argument from his own video?" And again...and again...till i realized this video is made one years later after that debate...you probably learn more things along the way, which is so relateable
He joined us in our suffering that we might join Him in His resurrection.
This is the ultimate example of having one's cake and eating it. You want to excuse God from any blame in creating a world where suffering must exist by saying he just created it and let it evolve, with some overarching “law of triumph” that we nevertheless must figure out on our own. But you also want you deity to be the Christian God who prepared a sacrifice for sins from the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8). You cannot have it both ways.
Course you can! Middle knowledge man, its great 👍
It seemed to fit together pretty well to me. The only thing that required christ's sacrifice is willful human sin.
Also the way its presented in the video, the law of triumph is active irregardless if we figure out about it or not. All it is, is stating that suffering either gr it was you,or tears you down,and it's up to you to pick which one it does.
I want to shed happy tears after watching this video. Thank you, Michael Jones.
Good video, will reference this in the future
Good and bad are RELATIVE. 😉
@@TheWorldTeacher Where's the evidence for your claim? I thought claims were not evidence!
We persons value more what we have when we did not have it in the past, when it was hard to achieve it we enjoy it more, value it more, we are more happy
I've been thinking for some time that our life on Earth is a vetting process, to see who is willing and wants to serve/obey/love God and be with Him in eternity. Its a vague thought but it appears that way to me. Why would God want people in Heaven around Him that don't love or want to listen to Him??
Your comments about suffering are quite in-depth. Somewhere I heard (Ytube) a short blurb about why suffering on earth. It was so simple but so accurate and profound I forgot to bookmark it. But it basically followed the same pattern as IP lays out. From my own life experience...pain & suffering can serve a greater purpose, a purpose you can't even imagine at the time of pain. It may be to wake you up that you are mortal flesh. It may be to put you in a position to effect someone's life, as well as your own.
As someone who suffers with chronic pain I have great empathy for those suffering. Its made me far more reflective on life, people, creation, universe, afterlife....things far more lasting than our lives on Earth. Without the pain & ailments I'd likely be doing things more for myself, being distracted by traveling or working extra for more money.
Its a complicated topic that us mortal humans cannot comprehend. Bryan Melvin has seen both Hell and Heaven and has great insight about why God did/does what He did and is doing. His hell testimony will make your hair stand up. Certainly will get your attention.
Mr. Hammer, there’s only one TINY little problem with what you wrote above, Sir.☝️
There has never been, nor will there ever be, even the SLIGHTEST shred of evidence for the existence of the Godhead, that is, a Supreme Person or Deity.🤓
It is high time for humanity to awaken from all INANE superstitions such as the belief in a Personal God which created the Universe, would you not agree, Slave? 😩
@@TheWorldTeacher You're making the claim now prove their is no Holy Trinity. You need to see Bryan Melvin's hell experience and convince him he was not judged by the Holy Trinity. A number of videos on Ytube.
You are amazing Michael Jones! Keep up the great work!
Long live Michael! :)
Absolutely. Great video. It’s a testament to the Bible that we all come to similar conclusions if we study with honesty and reverence for God. I believe one of The Law’s purposes were to reduce the effects oppression and suffering, something that I believe can only be viewed in the light and through the effects of Jesus Christ.
I often wonder if mind-at-large experiences our joys and sufferings, since our minds are processes running inside mind-at-large (which is obviously God). I believe He does. I believe every sorrow, every tear, every wound, every thirst, every hunger, every last sigh, is an experience God can relate to, even before He experienced it in flesh in the person of Jesus, but specially after He did.
How could we point our fingers at Him for our suffering, when He went through the cross? And went through it for our sake? We could not... all glory be to Him.
It was the great philosopher some know as "50 Cent" who perhaps said it best, "Sunny days wouldn't be special if it wasn't for rain / Joy wouldn't feel so good if it wasn't for pain"
That is so trite as to be scary in the light of the seriousness of the reality of pain and suffering.
Human sufferings are challenges in our lives. where if you win you live, while if lose you will lose deeper.
everyone has a purpose. you were born because you have a will to do,it's either to help or make people suffer from evil.
god created us here and allows us to suffer to build us into virtuous creatures? That means he can't find another way to accomplish that goal, which, by definition, means he is NOT all powerful
Think of a child who has suffered rape.
Think of the death of a loved one, cut down before old age.
Think of all the wars that have ever been.
That is the result of sin.
All the hatred, cruelty, and disease in the world are daily reminders of how much we need him.
What about natural disasters last I checked God once flooded the earth. It's documented. Is he not the creator of these things.
Diseases as well some of them are not man made per say. Flu for instance switches off people yearly. Is that a result of sin?
He allowed it all to happen on his watch. He’s the problem. He knows we are weak yet allows it all to continue. That’s like getting mad at a dog for peeing on the carpet when you didn’t let him out. Who is really to blame in that situation? The human (god), or the stupid dog (humans)?
So you you've got it all figured out, and there's no need to examine your preconceived ideas?
I'm pretty sure you've missed a few things.@@SauerkrautX
An all-good, all-knowing and all-POWERFUL "God" could easily have simply created the perfect happy eternity from the beginning. Nothing inthis video excuses "God" for not doing that.
Made paradise already
It is explained in the video that happiness is not God’s ultimate goal for humanity. It is holiness. It is moral virtue.
God bless you IP
As a cohesive argument against the probabilistic problem of suffering this video would be unconvincing due to the amount of postulation, but this video works well as a smorgasbord of the top theodicies. Lot's of interesting topics to dig into.
I've been looking for this one.
The dream analogy reminds me a lot of the Spanish play from the 1600s "Life is a Dream." By Pedro Calderón de la Barca.
I highly recommend this work for any Christian. English translation can be read online for free.
Will you please go into more detail?
@@davidmorris2378 and he never did
This an excellent video and offers an excellent responds to the problem of suffering. I feel it goes along way to addressing the paradox of suffering in the sense that suffering obliges many to turn to God for relief but when no relief comes many turn away from God. ie suffering is both the cause of belief and disbelief. Though I do like the 'Law of Triumph' over suffering idea I feel we live in the world where goodness is always defeated and so though God can not end our suffering he suffers with us. Though such a pessimistic view is more of a reflection of my own distress than your arguments. Brilliant and informative video. They are a light in the 'Darkness' keep them coming.
Thanks, I think the response is to note the beginning of the video, where I noted this life is not the end, but existence continues on after desire where most triumph will be.
@@InspiringPhilosophy hey IP DarkAntics made a response to your video divine hidden ness : A Christian response. I hope u make a response.
Quick question, how do you square your Libertarian view of the cosmos with the Providence of God? Love the vids and keep up the good work.
When you are saved, the pain is meaninful, but if you are not, the suffering only a curse. The reply can only apply to the saved but not to most of people. This is one of the basic flaw of the Christian doctrines. There are more issues to this topic, and the answers here only be part of them. Worth lots of debates.
@UCs_L7eOxSIeXN0MEJ-P7vfg Not necessary. It could go either way. Man can learn something positive, or he might feel bad till the end. You can not predict which one will come. And curse in Christian religions do happen.
Please cover revelation at some point!!
Hi IP, thank for your awesome videos!
I have a question. If the soul is immortal, why does Ecclesiastes 9:5 says that "the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward?" Psalm 146:4 also supports the idea of a mortal soul.
I do not want to take anything away from a very respectful and empathic video. I have read through a good portion of the comments section and every single person who viewed it and found solace is a testament to its quality and Michael's humanity. I would like to ask IP or others who agree with him a few question with regards to the theology behind it but would never seek to diminish the peace that many got from watching it. The questions that I ask are to seek understanding for myself because I am a curious atheist.
I will start with just one. Is this a video intended at all for an atheist?
I’m not quite sure, but if you want to ask him he is very active on Twitter, and thank you for openly looking at other world views I respect you for that
✝️ god has not forsaken me
Amen
This is epic content
Yeah epically bad content.
Great video. Question: If we all end up in a Heavenly Kingdom, what value is there in become through suffering a great virtuous soul?
Why did I not get this in my notifications?!
So good! Yet, I don’t understand how libertarian freedom requires macro-evolution to be true for God to give it.
On other things...that little dude practicing Muay Thai was awesome
Agreed, I wish IP would engage with James Tour, Günter Bechly, Stephen Meyer on the topics abiogenesis and biological evolution. Abiogenesis and macroevolution via unguided processes are highly improbable, imho. Free will is not diminished by God intervening in the history of life and upholding the material universe in every moment.
Great video. The question is not why does God allow suffering? The question is why does God allow anyone to live? The law says that the sinner will die. Cursed is the man who's heart turns away from God. Bad stuff for those who forget their Creator.
Noah's flood was an act of good justice. Except there's just one problem! He allowed 8 sinners to live. How can a holy God ignore evil? This is the great question and it's a question that must be answered.
And the answer is found in Christ alone. The judgement that Noah deserved fell on Christ. The righteous reward that Jesus Christ deserved fell on Noah. My dear friends, do you understand this great reality? There is a way for us to be made righteous before a holy God!
"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. But whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them." John 3:36
Good point.
Noah believed God like Abraham he was justified by faith.
@@johnrockwell5834 Exactly. You can't earn salvation. It's a free gift of God.
"For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast. " Ephesians 2:8-9
@@micahhenley589
Salvation through Faith. Demonstrating Salvation and earning further rewards by Good Works with Righteous Motives.
Even if you are saved. There is still rewards for doing right. And lack of reward for failing to do right outside of Salvation, access to the Trinity and a share in the New Jerusalem.
@@johnrockwell5834 True faith in Jesus Christ will definitely produce good works. God takes out their dead heart and gives them a living heart. Thus all the credit goes to God. We rejoice because of this.
Beautiful!
The Law of Triumph reminds me of the number system from Infinity Train. There, you have a system of self improvement and growth through suffering and trial. But growth only happens if you seek it.